Seattle Bus Tunnel
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Buses operating in dedicated transit tunnels are very rare. One city where this is done is Seattle, Washington State, USA.
Originally opening in September 1990, and wholly located within the city's 'free travel' zone the 1 & 1/3rd mile (2.1km) tunnels were originally served by a fleet of Italian Breda duobuses, with some services providing a direct link to the city's airport.
It is in this guise that this film was made.
The bus subway features 5 stations which opened on Mondays - Saturdays only. At the time of construction rail tracks were also installed for a future light rail service. Unfortunately despite this commendable forward thinking it was subsequently decided that part of the light rail line will follow a different alignment than the existing tunnels, so on 24th September 2005 the bus subway was closed for two year period of rebuilding.
Most of the duobuses were actually withdrawn well in advance of the closure (with many being converted to pure trolleybuses for use on surface routes) and - amazingly - replaced with diseasal powered buses. (diseasal = disease diesel)
In April 2005 local users were reporting on Internet discussion groups that the tunnels were often somewhat smelly from (what thinking people know to be) the poisonous diesel engine exhaust fumes.
Whilst it is true that the buses are diesel electric hybrids they still needed to use the fossil fuel traction package whilst underground, although this was in a special 'hush' mode which means that the only operate between stations and at much reduced power.
Apparently the choice of fossil fuel buses was influenced by the transport operators' belief that it is not possible to mix overhead wire powered light rail and electric trolleybuses / duo-buses in an underground tunnel system - even though Essen proved otherwise!
In Seattle the buses were driver steered, it might be assumed that for safety's sake "some" sort of guidance system would have been needed - if only to reduce the chance of a bus accidentally hitting the tunnel wall - especially within the portion of the bus subway which featured narrow London Underground 'tube-like' tunnels (as seen here), but this was not the situation.
This video compilation was filmed in May 1993. The sequences only follow a cursory order and because of faulty camcorder lens optics (which was only discovered once back home) the images are not as sharp as they should have been. Which is a shame.
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The tunnel reopened on 24th September 2007, although again for hybrid diseasal buses only.
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I remember watching this in late 2007 holy Jesus. One of the first RUclips videos I watched
One of the first RUclipss and one with the highest viewership.
Absolutley brilliant idea, and they really thought ahead with laying tracks as well. Perhaps someday a fully electric bus or vehicle can run though there
Turns out, a train !
Since the floor of the tunnel was lowered for the light rail, there have been concerns that the bus mirrors are now at head height and may strike those who are waiting on the platform. To prevent this, the mirrors are equipped with flashing lights.
Most US cities need this - not just Seattle!
Farewell, Bredas. You were my favorite in the fleet. Guess I have to join MEHVA to ride one again. Thanks for posting this video (I've watched it multiple times since 2011-ish)
RUclips has been trying to get me to watch this video for months and I finally caved in.
It's a very interesting system that totally should be an electric tram system, for the full length of the routes.
If they fully converted this to trams, they could have double-ended tram units, that could be chained together to provide 4 cars or 6 cars with a single driver. So it would really boost the capacity of the tunnelled section.
Since this was filmed the tunnels have been rebuilt and are now used by light rail trains
Thanks for drawing this report to my attention.
Simon
Too bad those Bredas were retired. I saw them all the time in the early 2010s.
I remember I asked bus drivers what it was like to operate a Breda and they said they were the most difficult buses to drive because a lot of them didn't have power steering. I don't know if you've ever seen bus drivers turning those beasts but they were known as the Frankenstein of buses. They also had broken suspension a lot of them so it was hard on bumps. The New Flyers they have now are better.
362 kilometres! I had no idea that Seattle is by far the biggest city in the World. Conbratulations to you. Sorry Moscow, Paris, NYC, LA, Calcutta; London, Tokyo, Kairo, Dehli, Berlin, Mombai; Sao Paolo, Rio.
Seattle is from now on The Worlds New Capital!
And my hometown Stockholm, Sweden, is next in line;)
RIP to these Bredas (1990-2016). The final remaining ones just retired.
Thanks for telling me. So today, Thursday 27th October was their last day?
citytransportinfo Yes, #4203 and #4243 were the last ones. A friend texted me that today's the last day they're in service. He researched on Seattle Transit Blog.
Yes.
Trains:CaptainOtis380 Welp At Least We Can Take Them As Subway Trains
This definitely takes me back. Thanks for the upload. 👍
the busses now are diesel hybrids, when in the tunnel they are in "hush" mode, they operate at 25mph using electric traction. The engine still turns on but in a "low emission" and low noise mode to provide anciliarry power.
Hello.
In the video these are 'duo-buses'. They have two drive systems and sometimes work as 100% electric trolleybuses and sometimes as 100% diesel buses.
But this was filmed in 1993.
Since 2007 they use different buses which are 'hybrid' - a diesel engine plus a battery electric system which work together.
regards
Simon
As mentioned before the Breda's were maintenance nightmares. They often cost much more to repair issue, they frequently broke down. They were extremely heavy and the diesel motors they came with were extremely underpowered as well as very dirty (2-stroke DD 6v92ta's, love the motors...but man they smoke). They hybrids are much easier to maintain, are becoming more mainstream, and they are very clean.
The bus tunnels are to be shared with a light rail line leading from downtown Seattle to SeaTac airport effective July 18th of 2009.
Someone has reminded me that as duobuses the Bredas were not the most successful vehicles - but are now enjoying a successful second life as pure trolleybuses.
Simon
That's kinda neat. In Ottawa, Canada the buses have their own private highway. Kind of the same concept. The only stops are major stations where you can transfer to more localized buses.
Seattle seems even more sensible than i imagined. Cute and Co-operative.
I miss those buses...just not the same with these buses today without the having to bring up/down the cables to switch from diesel to electric. Ah nostalgia...
Actually, light rail rapid transit trains are now running through the tunnel alongside the buses. The original tracks that were laid in the late 80s were not compatible with the current Kinkisharyo trains, so the closure of the tunnel from 2005-2007 was to upgrade the tracks and lower the floor of the roadway for the low-floor trains.
I wish this video showcased more of the beautiful bus tunnel stations - the low quality doesn't showcase the stunning marble and granite facades. It also doesn't show much of Westlake station - by far the prettiest in the tunnel!
In the bus industry its called 'BRT' - Bus Rapid Transit.
There are 2 bus subways in Boston, the Silver is the newer route but there is also the short bus subway (including underground bus stop) by Harvard subway station.
Simon
In Essen Germany they found that light rail and trolleybuses can share tunnels. (See some of my other videos)
Seattle thinks otherwise.
OK, in Seattle the light rail will use 1500v dc - which hardly any light rail systems use - but for the tunnel they could halve that voltage without major problems, especially as the speeds will be low.
I didn't see the message you were responding to but at the end of the video you can clearly see that the coach drops it's connectors and drives off with black smoke coming from it's exhaust! The reason for the electric(speaking to your person who posted originally) is that the tube would fill with smoke! Yes not all people have our reasoning that view this site so lets be a little more pleasant.
Rails were designed for a light rail scheme, but it was later decided that the light rail should follow a slightly different route, so the tunnel is closed for that rebuilding.
So, to answer your question, the buses were steered by human drivers, and the rails were never used.
Simon
Wow, the Detroit Diesel engine makes me remember here in San Juan, a repowered MAN SG310 unit 84802 6V71N used frequently at route 9, and rarely at former routes 10 and 11. But this Breda artics never comes to San Juan, but AMA in 1992 have an offer of Breda Artics, but AMA preferred the RTS bus, the most popular from transit agencies.
hold your horses before you get too excited. The bus tunnel is running in the infastructure for a future subway system (that's why you see tracks in the tunnel). Seattle has a way to go before they offer a truly convenient public transit system. Of course I came here after San Francisco which has an amazing public transit system. The Sounder is nothing compared to the Caltrans. The public transportation here is designed to get 8-5 workers into Seattle for work and little more.
The light rail is not even open yet!
Experience here in Britain (outside of London) has shown that what is free to roam is also free to roam away. Bus services can be killed off with just 42 days notice, leaving people high and dry.
Fixed infrastructure gives confidence that the transport which is 'here today' will also be 'here tomorrow'. This then acts as a focus for inward investment by other businesses.
Simon
I was there just last month- and it feels like you're in a subway train.
In Essen, Germany they have buses in the tram tunnel. But it's a bit different. The buses have aditional doors at the left side and they run on a kind of special rails. But they could also drive on roats like normal busses.
globally as many cities use overhead wire electric trolleybuses as use light rail. The advantages include zero pollution in the streets and depending on how the electricity is sourced the transports can be totally clean / pollution free. As in Vancouver BC with its hydo power.
Simon
there are several cities with tunnels - often former streetcar tunnels - but in most places they are now disused.
Seattle (and Boston) are different, as they built new tunnel ssytems specially for the buses.
Simon
Simon
This is very good, like trams...clean
That's the "old" bus tunnel - it's been massively updated since 2007 for light rail. At some point when Seattle's train system is larger, buses will probably get "kicked out" of the tunnel.
In Estonia, and a lot of cities and countries of ex-USSR, there are buses that have contact lines above, - they're called trolleys :)
Even in 1998 I was stopped from videoing on stations on the Boston Mass subway system. People have told me that filming is banned in case there is an accident - either caused by the person filming or that the footage might be used in a lawsuit for damages.
Simon
aha, now I understand. Thanks.
This is the new streetcar line - Portland has a modern streetcar and Seattle wanted one as well.
Simon
Thanks, Patty, I'm pleased that you found it to be of interest.
Simon
Please read page 21 of the report... (copied below).
I am still reading it so may wish to make more comments at another time.
Simon
The hybrid buses have a feature unique to KC Metro's operation: HUSH mode. HUSH mode fills the need for an operating mode to minimize noise and engine emissions while a bus is in Seattle's downtown transit tunnel. The hybrid buses operate in an electric-only mode in the station areas of the tunnel and in a reduced engine power mode in between stations.
Don't get me wrong. I like having the tunnel since I live in north seattle and the buses get you through downtown quickly.
However I enjoy visiting my friends up in Vancouver and hoping on a sky train 1000 times better.
thanks for both the video and the story on mismanagement. At first sight I thought the rails were for some guidance system, but oooof...
can't imagine the busses can do that much longer, with the Link LRT running now.
Hybrids usually get better mileage - because they store braking energy in their batteries and use it when the vehicle is starting from rest. This reduces fuel consumption.
Simon
On my website you need to look for the bus priority systems page, from where there is a link to a special page which looks at Kerb Guidance / the O-Bahn, which is a form of self steering for buses that was first used in Essen with the intended aim of making more productive use of light rail tunnels buy making it so that buses could share them too.
Simon
Awesome! Thanks for posting this. Pls do post more such videos.
people do this all the time on public transport,
its no big deal - well, not above ground. However it is something when the mobile phones work in tunnels too. Many people like being 'out of reach' when in tunnels, as it gives them a chance to rest, read magazines, etc without the boss being able to phone them every few minutes.
Simon
The tunnels have vents that allow the polluted air to circulate, just as passenger car tunnels.
Actually, it's not all that noisy. Much quieter than above ground bus stops. Pretty much tastefully done tilework & ort. What's great is when you just want to get from one end of downtown to the other, like the surface buses, it's free most of the time. What was hellish was when they were building it, mostly using the "Cut & Cover" method like much of northern London
that's it. Just go to the bottom floor of Macy's and ask someone. The tunnels are useful in that they are not affected by traffic and they mostly serve routs that go from downtown to the 'burbs or University District. If you live in Ballard then it might not be so great. I come in from Federal Way so the buses go straight to the tunnel.
One advantage though is that all busses stop at all stops in the tunnel so you don't have to worry about which street to be on to catch the #such-and-such bus.
I worked on this tunnel during the renovation in 07, I can see some of the electrical work that I did, the original tracks were to narrow, so they cut them out and put in new ones, they brought the new train in one day to check the tracks and let us come on board to look at it, and I had to ask where are they going to put the luggage at when this goes to the airport, you should of seen the look on there faces, kind of like maybe we forgot some thing?
My father who is a researcher in cancer in Seattle only drives about 1 mile to transit center to catch bus. I am also in the bioscience related lab. My boss also only drives to transit center to catch bus. I have my car, but I will ride my bicycle unless the weather is bad.
Thanks for making and sharing this!
Hi! Dan ~ This video is very interesting and educational! and Thank You for sharing it! ~ Patty:)
Good idea, wish we had something like this here in Australia!!!! :), i'm assuming it's in seatlle USA?
I loved driving those old girls great days and job rt #175.
thanks for watching and commenting.
the rails were not insulated (electrically) like they should have been and it was also decided to change part of the route, so the tunnels needed rebuilding.
Simon
There is a South Lake Union Trolley line that runs between Westlake and South Lake Union. It is operated actually by King County Metro. Sound Transit is building a Central Link line for the light rail system system set to open in 2009, and which may expand in the future.
this is a very old video. That design of bus hasnt been used by King County Metro for at least 10 years. The buses that do run in the tunnel now use diesel (not their trolly poles), and there is also now light rail sharing the tunnel with the buses, one of the very few tunnels in the world to share trains and buses in one tunnel.
yup, tunnels are being reused for the light rail - and assuming that Mt Ranier does not copy what Mount St Helens did in 1980 will be used for that purpose too.
Simon
yes they are hybrid, but a different kind, ours clip onto wires above the street and run purely on electric.
As of 23rd March, 2019, there are no more buses running in the tunnel. Link Light Rail trams still run through it with better efficiency now that the buses have since been rerouted up to street level. I have various videos of bus rides through the tunnel from 2018-2019 that I will be slowly be uploading.
Thank you for telling me.
Its the damdest thing I knew all along that bus tunnel existed but never went down their......
I didn't know they had that here, cool.
Thanks yes, I know of it but have only seen photos. It was not open when I was in Boston.
But I saw theie other bus subway (Harvard).
The Silverline uses duo-buses, as part of the route is over federal roads where overhead wires are not allowed (so I've been told).
Simon
i missing riding the metro bus back in the day.... start from china town of seattle to the middle of of downtown of seattle... the west lake center mall....
They closed them a few years ago and turned them into the new Light Rail Train tunnel and a buss transit center.
since the video was filmed the tunnel buses have been replaced with vehicles which are diesel at all times - even in the tunnel.
Simon
I also wonder about steering the buses in such narrow tunnels and would have thougght that the guidance system in Essen would have been beneficial here too. But it seems that they managed.
Simon
What's fun about Convention Place Station (the last station shown in the video) is that it was barely touched during the makeover - the old rails are still I'm the ground, heading up the express lane ramps towards I-5. All the wire overhead is still there too. Once you get to the "merge point" just north of Westlake station by the Pine ST. Stub tunnel, they all vanish.
hmm, that sounds like the modern-day concept of 'progress'!
Simon
i've been in those tunnels a few times seeing as i live near seattle.
@daavey Actually these buses still exist to this day in Seattle. Just not in the tunnels. Routes 43, 44, 49, 7, and a few more. They work fine, they painted them blue and yellow and some green and yellow.
Thanks.
'no worries'.
Simon
That partly depends on Mt Rainier, and / or whether there is severe tectonic activity along the Pacific Ring of Fire.
I applaud Seattle for people mover engineering technology...something other cities should have done like Los Angeles where we have allot of hills and it takes the ridership to long to get around them. Having Tunnels through the bottom of our hills would cut down facing traffic and get people where they need to be and I'd bet that tunnel transit systems would cut down on the hillside breakdown all us drivers have from time to time and would actually extend the life of the coach.
always bene part of the plan. Just taking ages to do it!
Simon
all under downtown. I think they stop at four or five different places.
just go to the bottom floor of Macys or the Westlake Shopping Center and follow the signs for the transit tunnel.
please read more messages... this was filmed in 1993, nowadays the buses have been replaced and are diesel at all times.
Simon
Now the Breda buses, along with the Gillig trolleybuses, were replaced by New Flyer XT40s and XT60s.
Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel, currently for hybrid buses and Central Link, has the really big difference compare the ones in the video. The buses operating now are (all New Flyer):
DE60LF 2600-2812, 6813-6865, 9600-9621, 9622-9636
DE60LFR 6866-6999, 6800, 9637-9651
XDE60 9652-9659
The DE60LF 2600-2812, however, will be replaced by XDE60 8000-8084, 8100-8199, 8200-8299, on 2019-2020, so the tunnel will have the replacement buses operating in the future.
The King County Metro operate routes have 41, 74, 101, 102, 150, and 255. The Sound Transit operate route has 550 only.
Central Link, on the other hand, has a fleet by Kinkishayo, built in 2009. Central Link is now operating U of W to Angel Lake, a little south on Seattle-Tacoma Int' Airport.
When I lived in Seattle, I took the metro everywhere!!
Now I found you...You'd have to be there to understand it...hopefully!
Think of it...instead of complicating things for their ridership the Agency actually did it right and so now people taking a bus don't have to get off and transfer to a subway. I applaud the City and Agency for keeping it more user friendly. Look for my additional post about this!
lol public transit is non-existing in Oklahoma. Seattle is such a great place to be. I loved it when I use to live there.
Tunnel mode is the problem. When in the tunnels the buses should be 100% electric - not spewing out harmful pollutants. Even though tunnel mode spews out fewer than normal mode the buses still create air pollution in the tunnels.
Simon
Great sollution.
And there's another between Colonial Edgemead and Historic Santa Angela.
Signed, Lucy Nickell.
@animal16365
granted that present-day diesels are less dirty than older diesels from years back, but compared to the zero emmissions of an electric trolleybus so the reduced pollution from a 2010 diesel still makes them dirtier...
Thanks for the explanation.
The use of trolleybuses in a tunnel is not what many people want to see.
Have you seen my Essen O-Bahn vidoes? This too is something that is being ignored.
Simon
I lived there for 20 years. (Given it was the first 20 years of my life, so I didn't understand the bus system fully until about age 12).
I'd like to see Ottawa with a mass-transit system too. Whenever I go back to visit, I still take the 97, 118, and all those crappy ass cross-town routes I wish didn't exist.
Historical interest of things which have since changed.
This video along with my videos from Berlin just after the fall of the wall have been seen by many tens of thosuands people - frankly I feel honoured that so many people have seen them.
The historical aspect will beocme ven more significant if the predicted events come to pass over the next few months - for instance the web bots suggest that in December the PNW will see major tectonic activity - watch Mt Ranier too.
Simon
which tunnel - I only kn ow of the city centre (downtown) tunnel which was several miles long.
Hybrids are still over 60% more polluting than electric trolleybuses - which do not create any tailpipe pollution at all.
Yes some of the bus routes through the tunnels should have been 100% trolleybus, plus the wires should have been extended along the private road which leads into the tunnel.
They still have some of the buses in the video, they had the diesel engine taken out and are all trackless trolley.
thanks for watching my video and commenting.
Simon
Beautiful Trip! Excellent!
It was originally thought a light rail line would run up I-5 towards lynnwood, but this was changed 15 years later in favor of hitting the University of Washington along the way. Busses will get kicked out of the tunnel once the extension to UW opens in 2016. The rails would have had to be replaced regardless, as they weren't electrically insulated. During the renovation, Sound Transit also raised the platform to 14 in., allowing for level boarding.
Are you kidding me?? Why are they kicking buses out of the bus tunnel?
im going there for summer! yay!
wow this is so neat~!! i never knew we had theses, im gonna ride one :D
Buses don’t even run through here anymore, it’s only the Central Link these days
Yes, in fact they spend most of their time on the real road, sharing roadspace with everything else. This can be seen in some of my other Essen films.
Simon
I live in Ottawa and yes we do have it but I wish somedays we had a subway instead of our Transitway....
@FASSY524 actually no, they purchased new bodies, and kept the electronic motors and other parts of the electrical system. and no, they dont work fine. thats why metro wants to phase out trollies alltogether and go with new diesel hybrids.