Yours is a fair test, keeping in mind that pads do not heat on their own. That eventually, both water bottles should settle to the same temperature. Therefore, what's being measured is thermal-delay, not 'warmth of the pads.' 3°C is significant thermal-delay. Otherwise, to make a better test would mean an expensive test setup like ASTM's (or whoever certifies "R" values). Your test is fine, because what you care about is how fast heat escapes through to the ground and your thermal-delay test gives a relative measure of that performance factor. In other words, 3°C shouldn't be looked at as a minor difference that one might expect one pad to be merely 3°C colder, but that one pad sucks that much more energy all night long.
Really nice attempt to get under the skin of these two competitors. Well done! I use the Sea to Summit Comfort Plus R4.0. It’s really comfortable, but also provides redundancy against failure on a cold mountain through independent layers. But it’s not warm enough for winter so I also carry sections of Z Lite… all in all a luxurious but heavy solution. Maybe I should get an X Therm and 🤞 no mat failure?
Thanks, I did my best to get objective. I will still take a highlander thin foil mat as insurance and extra comfort. Weigh very little but are really good, for summer I have the grey s2s insulated and the green lite one.. Thanks for commenting. it's really appreciated.
That's a very interesting and clever way to test mats Dave. One thing that i noticed with the Nxt that i didn't notice with the original Xtherm was that by the time i deflated it to the point which suited me the most was that if i sat on it or knelt then i would touch the ground very easily and another plus and also the reason that i now prefer the Nemo Tensor Extreme conditions is that i only have to deflate it ever so slightly to give me that whole body fit if that make sense and i do not feel the ground when i sit or kneel on it. Theres not a great deal of discussion when it comes to deflating to whatever level f comfort thats required on any of the mats but then thats too much of a personal / individual preference i guess.
Cheers Olan. I did feel when it was deflated to comfort pressure there was still plenty of air filled mat. But the layers were reflecting still in thIse compressed areas, whereas with the s2s those areas would be still quite thick, but with reduced insulation. Thanks for commenting once more....
I think the dimples give the sensation that more of the mat is in contact with your body because with the NTEC it feels like i hardly have to let any air out before it feels nice and snug but i haven't used the STS but guessing thats the same sensation although i know thats a thicker mat.@@Fellmandave1
Big difference in these mattresses for me is the price. Themarest is close to double the price here in New Zealand, so i settled for the sea to summit. That 3 degree difference seems fair in price. Cheers for the videos. [Edit, just read the comment below. Still stand by it though for the price difference]
Hi, all the way down there! As long as you like it, I am a pretty cold sleeper nowadays in my old age so other people may be just fine with the s2s. Thanks again for commenting. Would love to go to NZ!
Lovely video Dave! I’m awaiting delivery of the xtherm, so this was well timed! I do like my Rab 5.5 mat, it’s lovely and warm and extremely comfortable. It’s one thing I’d love thermarest to adopt feature is the longitudinal cells with the larger edge cells. I simply never roll off the Rab, whereas I always roll off my thermarest topo lux… but that could be just because it’s so thick!! Definitely a car camping one! The Rab is also a bit weighty and a complete bu**er to get back in its “burrito “ pouch! Maybe shout Rab to see if they’ll give you an Ionosphere or stratosphere 5.5 to test against? Love your lab room.. what do you do for your day job (says the geek in me, eyeing up the chart on the wall and trying to figure out what it’s for…!)
Hi , I hope you enjoy the pad. Let me know what your fall of factor is! I am a Podiatrist with a special interest in gait analysis. I see lots of people who need help with their walking and running. Reducing pain and improving quality of life is the name of the game.
@@Fellmandave1so took the xtherm out on a test run this week in the highlands… it’s definitely the warmest pad I own! Noticeably warmer than the Rab 5.5. There was a *certain* amount of roll off, and my legs kept dropping off the side, but that’s me! Anecdotally though, this is a really warm pad. Also, it’s very quiet. If you scrunch it up you can hear the rustle, but in use it barely makes a noise. Simply superb!
Great intel! Would love to see how the Thermarest compares to the Nemo Tensor extreme since they boast an 8.5 r value but have different baffling systems.
I understand there's calls for the official test to change. Some do well when there's no movement on the mat but when you move it loses heat, or you need to warm up the new spot you are lying on. This seems to be the S2S? While others are not as affected by the person's movement (Thermarest)? Good review, very interesting. Thanks.
Good points, seems that the mylar reflective stuff, is locally reflective, whilst still requiring some initial warming, but the filling approach requires global warming and is subject to local 'thinness' and compression at high pressure points. At least thats my understanding.
Sea to summit needs to be fully inflated to get maximum loft on the insulation. The results where spot on. I guess with your weight means there is less loft so much colder. I uses a sheet with the S2S and its very quite but its too big the wide one so im looking to change like shame really
would not rate or trust exped, seen first hand 3 matt's fail now, 2 of which where mine all just after the 2 year mark. Since using the xtherm never had an issue - it is the only inflatable matt i would take these days (for 4 season+ ) or trust for that matter.
@@camouflage962 Yep sure did - lucky in that i have a room purely for kit and they were stored folded in half valves open. Two failed due to seam glue, a third down to the chamber popping upwards making it unusable to sleep on without rolling off. All 3 not long after the 2 year mark and exped didn't want to know. After moving to Thermarest 4 years ago not had one issue, note i avoid their uberlight range as wouldnt suit my requirements i keep to the xtherm, and yellow classic for non alpine/3 season use. Note i have no sponsorship or brand requiements when it comes to sleeping matts so this is just my take from many trips/expeditions over 20 years around the world. I use the xtherm in conjunction with their standard closed cell folding matt - this gives me options for a super comfy base camp setups or equally when remote an emergency so i dont get exposure for when on ice should i say shove a crampon through it when tired or it fails (and protection from the ground i guess) for the xtherm. Edit - i should add its not through being overloaded lol re popping matts and seams failing, im fit and i don't carry excess weight unless say i know i might be running a calorie deficient situation then i may elect for few extra kilo's of calories but that's it.
Really great video. I enjoyed your testing very much
Thank you! Cheers Craig!
Well done. I love to see more objective testing.
It's somewhat rare in camping gear reviews! Thanks for commenting.
Yours is a fair test, keeping in mind that pads do not heat on their own. That eventually, both water bottles should settle to the same temperature. Therefore, what's being measured is thermal-delay, not 'warmth of the pads.' 3°C is significant thermal-delay. Otherwise, to make a better test would mean an expensive test setup like ASTM's (or whoever certifies "R" values). Your test is fine, because what you care about is how fast heat escapes through to the ground and your thermal-delay test gives a relative measure of that performance factor. In other words, 3°C shouldn't be looked at as a minor difference that one might expect one pad to be merely 3°C colder, but that one pad sucks that much more energy all night long.
Thanks, Tom, for clarifying and endorsing my amateurish attempts. I tried to eliminate any confounding factors. ATB Dave
Science and modern camping equipment 😊. Two of my favourite topics 😬👍🏼👍🏼
Hahaha. Great!
The sea to summit is Way more noisy when you are tossing and turning…..
No other Channels are adressing this.
Dare I say it, fart sound effect?
Really nice attempt to get under the skin of these two competitors. Well done! I use the Sea to Summit Comfort Plus R4.0. It’s really comfortable, but also provides redundancy against failure on a cold mountain through independent layers. But it’s not warm enough for winter so I also carry sections of Z Lite… all in all a luxurious but heavy solution. Maybe I should get an X Therm and 🤞 no mat failure?
Thanks, I did my best to get objective. I will still take a highlander thin foil mat as insurance and extra comfort. Weigh very little but are really good, for summer I have the grey s2s insulated and the green lite one.. Thanks for commenting. it's really appreciated.
That's a very interesting and clever way to test mats Dave. One thing that i noticed with the Nxt that i didn't notice with the original Xtherm was that by the time i deflated it to the point which suited me the most was that if i sat on it or knelt then i would touch the ground very easily and another plus and also the reason that i now prefer the Nemo Tensor Extreme conditions is that i only have to deflate it ever so slightly to give me that whole body fit if that make sense and i do not feel the ground when i sit or kneel on it. Theres not a great deal of discussion when it comes to deflating to whatever level f comfort thats required on any of the mats but then thats too much of a personal / individual preference i guess.
Cheers Olan. I did feel when it was deflated to comfort pressure there was still plenty of air filled mat. But the layers were reflecting still in thIse compressed areas, whereas with the s2s those areas would be still quite thick, but with reduced insulation. Thanks for commenting once more....
I think the dimples give the sensation that more of the mat is in contact with your body because with the NTEC it feels like i hardly have to let any air out before it feels nice and snug but i haven't used the STS but guessing thats the same sensation although i know thats a thicker mat.@@Fellmandave1
Big difference in these mattresses for me is the price. Themarest is close to double the price here in New Zealand, so i settled for the sea to summit. That 3 degree difference seems fair in price. Cheers for the videos. [Edit, just read the comment below. Still stand by it though for the price difference]
Hi, all the way down there! As long as you like it, I am a pretty cold sleeper nowadays in my old age so other people may be just fine with the s2s. Thanks again for commenting. Would love to go to NZ!
Love my large 25” thermarest.although I’ve heard some great reviews of the Kilos gear mat for comfort,not as comfy the new one though.👍
Good to know!
Lovely video Dave!
I’m awaiting delivery of the xtherm, so this was well timed! I do like my Rab 5.5 mat, it’s lovely and warm and extremely comfortable. It’s one thing I’d love thermarest to adopt feature is the longitudinal cells with the larger edge cells.
I simply never roll off the Rab, whereas I always roll off my thermarest topo lux… but that could be just because it’s so thick!! Definitely a car camping one! The Rab is also a bit weighty and a complete bu**er to get back in its “burrito “ pouch! Maybe shout Rab to see if they’ll give you an Ionosphere or stratosphere 5.5 to test against? Love your lab room.. what do you do for your day job (says the geek in me, eyeing up the chart on the wall and trying to figure out what it’s for…!)
Hi , I hope you enjoy the pad. Let me know what your fall of factor is! I am a Podiatrist with a special interest in gait analysis. I see lots of people who need help with their walking and running. Reducing pain and improving quality of life is the name of the game.
@@Fellmandave1so took the xtherm out on a test run this week in the highlands… it’s definitely the warmest pad I own! Noticeably warmer than the Rab 5.5. There was a *certain* amount of roll off, and my legs kept dropping off the side, but that’s me! Anecdotally though, this is a really warm pad. Also, it’s very quiet. If you scrunch it up you can hear the rustle, but in use it barely makes a noise. Simply superb!
Great! Thanks for the update. Glad it worked well for you.
Great intel! Would love to see how the Thermarest compares to the Nemo Tensor extreme since they boast an 8.5 r value but have different baffling systems.
Friend of mine has both, he feels the perfomance is similar.
I understand there's calls for the official test to change. Some do well when there's no movement on the mat but when you move it loses heat, or you need to warm up the new spot you are lying on. This seems to be the S2S? While others are not as affected by the person's movement (Thermarest)?
Good review, very interesting. Thanks.
Good points, seems that the mylar reflective stuff, is locally reflective, whilst still requiring some initial warming, but the filling approach requires global warming and is subject to local 'thinness' and compression at high pressure points. At least thats my understanding.
Sea to summit needs to be fully inflated to get maximum loft on the insulation. The results where spot on. I guess with your weight means there is less loft so much colder. I uses a sheet with the S2S and its very quite but its too big the wide one so im looking to change like shame really
The thermarest is really good. Sold the S2S
@@Fellmandave1 haa just bought the xlite figured for the weight save I can add foam. I never know what to do 😂
Light Tour R5.8 will be the best budget choice
Thanks Kimberley
would you be interested to test/review the mat by EXPED, called "Dura 8R Lw", against the hyped thermarest ?
If I had one!
would not rate or trust exped, seen first hand 3 matt's fail now, 2 of which where mine all just after the 2 year mark. Since using the xtherm never had an issue - it is the only inflatable matt i would take these days (for 4 season+ ) or trust for that matter.
oh really....
Did you store them unfolded?
@@camouflage962 Yep sure did - lucky in that i have a room purely for kit and they were stored folded in half valves open. Two failed due to seam glue, a third down to the chamber popping upwards making it unusable to sleep on without rolling off. All 3 not long after the 2 year mark and exped didn't want to know. After moving to Thermarest 4 years ago not had one issue, note i avoid their uberlight range as wouldnt suit my requirements i keep to the xtherm, and yellow classic for non alpine/3 season use. Note i have no sponsorship or brand requiements when it comes to sleeping matts so this is just my take from many trips/expeditions over 20 years around the world. I use the xtherm in conjunction with their standard closed cell folding matt - this gives me options for a super comfy base camp setups or equally when remote an emergency so i dont get exposure for when on ice should i say shove a crampon through it when tired or it fails (and protection from the ground i guess) for the xtherm.
Edit - i should add its not through being overloaded lol re popping matts and seams failing, im fit and i don't carry excess weight unless say i know i might be running a calorie deficient situation then i may elect for few extra kilo's of calories but that's it.