Time Stamps: 01:30 History/Definition of Flexible Dieting & Refeeds 07:28 Purpose of the refeed 19:40 Refeeds for women 25:25 How many days do we need to benefit from a refeed? 36:05 Linear deficit vs. low days & high days? 55:18 Additional benefits to refeeds for different athletes
Love all Steve and Pascals content. Should blow up this channel. The guests on here are giving you basically a free college level education in exercise and nutrition.
SO grateful for finding Lyle McDonald's work. His PSMF guide helped me to go from 25% BF to 15% and still dropping at a predictable and controlled rate. So helpful having a framework. Now that Im lower on BF this episode is helpful for me to get more up to date info on how to properly refeed.
I could listen to this man for hours on end. Btw your interviewing technique is really on point. You let the interviewee talk (although in this particular case, that is perhaps not the most difficult thing lol), and you have a good layout of the interviews, with questions that nicely sets up the interview so it's not just all over the place
this was great info since im around 10% BF currently getting close to my goal and im going through insane cravings and doing a crap ton of cardio to keep my weight loss consistent
Hey guys. Got a question. Lyle said that you must bring calories atleast to maintenance in order to feel benefits. My question is, since person was on a deficit for a while, how can we exactly know where person's maintenance is now? Because metabolism probably adapted and maintenance is now lower than it was on start.
Yup, depending on the length of the deficit and how much BW you've lost you def want to consider taking off 10 or 200 calories but that would def not be a perfect measure, but calculating maintenance never is anyway haha. - Coach Jess
If you do get Lyle on again, I would like to hear more about his thoughts on the Female Athlete Triad / Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (RED-S) and Energy Availability (EA). I've heard that for most women, problems (loss of menstrual cycle and bone density, etc.) begin when EA is restricted below 30 kcal/kg FFM/day and that 45 kcal/kg FFM/day is considered "optimal" EA for allowing all normal physiological processes and training adaptations to take place. I'm curious about his thoughts on these cutoff values. I'm a male and I think suffering from nil testosterone as a result of RED-S caused by a very long stretch of excessively low calorie dieting. I have since returned to maintenance for 2 weeks and am now bulking, my EA is generally ~41 most days. I would jump up to 45 but am afraid of gaining fat back too quickly as this would put me at a surplus of nearly 800 kcal as opposed to the 500 kcal surplus I'm currently running (current BF% estimated at 6% based upon single site caliper measurements). I'm wondering if it is necessary to meet or exceed this "magical" 45 kcal/kg FFM/day value in order to see complete healing of my negative hormonal effects, or whether my more modest 41 kcal/kg FFM/day value will eventually do the trick, but just take much longer? Also, curious about his thoughts on using daily calorie variations based on daily training volume (like in his book for Mixed Sports Athletes where rest day maintenance was perhaps 30kcal/kg total body mass plus 5-10 kcal/kg per hour of training) versus using a constant calorie target for all days based upon estimated total weekly activity (i.e. 34 kcal/kg)? Thanks!
Robert you seem to be well read in this field. So why not answer your question yourself? Lyle didn't do the research so his thoughts are the facts you've enumerated. The cut off point 45kcal/kg/lbm etc are only for females and lastly.. What are you trying to achieve? Perfect hormones with 6%?Lol answer yourself, few articles of Lyle I can point you too, but those are basics, you'd know this already yourself. Tl:Dr you're above maintenance so enough is enough. Secondly 500 kcal above is probably too much) 200-300kcal max see Lyles article on this.)
Perfect hormones at 6% would be ideal, lol. Doubtful it is achievable though. But really I think that's what I was pursuing. Coming out of that long cut I was resistant to put body fat back on. I essentially ended up doing a long reverse diet trying to limit body fat regain. When I said I was in a 500 calorie surplus, that was a surplus relative to a calculated/estimated maintenance. In reality I was still below my true maintenance because as I kept adding calories and as my metabolic rate picked back up I got up to 900 kcal above this "estimated" value before I started gaining any weight (other than the initial water weight regain), which ironically did happen as soon as I went over the 45 kcal/kg FFM mark. I'm still increasing calories gradually every 2 weeks or so until I hit the 1/2 lb per week bodyweight gain mark and will try to keep gaining at that rate for as long as possible, ideally not dieting again for a year or two, lol. I definitely should have been more aggressive with the calorie bumps in the beginning though, more along the lines of the 3dmj recovery diet, because long periods in that energy deficient state caused all sorts of issues in terms of relationships and such. My main curiosity was in determining how to get as lean as possible without the body sensing that it's in an energy deficient state. I think the intermittent calorie restriction (ICR) methods have promise, staying at maintenance for most of the week and then restricting moderately on dieting days. It would take a long time but provided that the deficit on those days isn't so extreme that it alarms the body. Without ICR, the maximum daily net calorie deficit that you could shoot for without dropping below the 30 kcal/kg FFM mark would be roughly 30 kcal/kg Fat Mass, so at 15% and 80kgs it would be about 360 kcal, or about 0.4% body weight per week, definitely on the slow side of the 0.5 to 1% bodyweight per week recommendation (and staying at this minimum net calorie intake the deficit would only grow smaller with time as fat is lost), but less likely to cause negative adaptations until a very lean state is reached. In theory, assuming a perfect world, this would take 45 weeks to get down to a super lean 4%. This is assuming many things which I doubt would hold up practically, such as 30 kcal/kg FFM being the actual physiological cutoff for EA deficiency. (Curiously though, I've always wondered where the RMR equation that Arnold gives in his Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding book came from, in there he says that RMR=LBM (lbs) / 2.205 * 30.4, aka 30.4 kcal/kg FFM without factoring in activity, sounds a lot like the EA cutoff to me, perhaps adjusted up with a 10% safety factor... just interesting). Adding in ICR I still wonder how aggressive you could be and not cause issues. Greg Nuckols did a video talking about a study that looked at maximal rates of fat loss, where he said that bodyfat can supply a maximum of ~22-30 kcal/lb (48 to 66 kcal/kg) of Fat mass per day, and that somewhere in this range is a theoretical maximum deficit that would use primarily bodyfat stores and limit muscle loss. Compared to my earlier estimate based on the EA cutoff this is fairly aggressive and would likely cause metabolic adaptations is sustained daily while fairly lean, but perhaps this could be a good figure for a maximum deficit on dieting days when using ICR methods. Say 4 days at maintenance and 3 days in a 50kcal/kg Fat mass deficit (600 kcal for the earlier 80kg 15% lifter), or alternating these every other day. It's all theory but things that intrigue me. That's mainly why I would like to hear Lyle's responses, not so much for the answers but for the enjoyment of the discussion itself.
For quite some time now that I have not been able to find out - does anyone have the link to the womens' refeeding study (by Anne Loucks - forgive me if I mispelled) that Lyle kept mentioning?
Lyle is the best. today the industry is full of "self claiming" scientist, like schoenfeld and aragorn, that are nothing more than personal trainers. Shitty athlete and good personal trainer. STOP! Lyle is very well prepared and is extremely humble.
I don't know if it is the most downloaded paper of all times. Assuming it is (a lot of mr nobody download papers) that doesn't mean it is the best or that the conclusions are correct. And for me, are not correct. Maybe the less downloaded papers are about cancer, because just a few people can understand the mechanism behind a carcinoma...does that mean that paper are the worst paper ever?
That said, if you train and your body suck, or you are doing the wrong stuff or your "knowladge" is useless. Think about it when you see people like schoenfeld giving advice.
A little before 7:56.... Does anyone else craves nuts? I mean I can eat a Peter Pan/ Jeff's crunchy peanut butter jar happily in a sit down. They contain sugar, so no surprises there... but man, then I change for bagged unsalted nuts: lo and behold I'm downing those down too. I'm an 165 cm 54kg endomorph woman trying to put on muscle... who easily stores fat around the mid section :P... I don't particularly enjoy refeeds but see the benefits of it... so when he says we don't crave fats and protein as much as carbs (and we know which kind) I'm wondering if there's a reason for craving nuts above the other that aren't psychological.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Time Stamps:
01:30 History/Definition of Flexible Dieting & Refeeds
07:28 Purpose of the refeed
19:40 Refeeds for women
25:25 How many days do we need to benefit from a refeed?
36:05 Linear deficit vs. low days & high days?
55:18 Additional benefits to refeeds for different athletes
Love all Steve and Pascals content. Should blow up this channel. The guests on here are giving you basically a free college level education in exercise and nutrition.
Man, appreciate it so so much! Thank you for all the support!
SO grateful for finding Lyle McDonald's work. His PSMF guide helped me to go from 25% BF to 15% and still dropping at a predictable and controlled rate. So helpful having a framework. Now that Im lower on BF this episode is helpful for me to get more up to date info on how to properly refeed.
We have other more recent episodes about refeeds and diet breaks with Jackson Peos and Bill Campbell :)
- Coach Jess
I could listen to this man for hours on end. Btw your interviewing technique is really on point. You let the interviewee talk (although in this particular case, that is perhaps not the most difficult thing lol), and you have a good layout of the interviews, with questions that nicely sets up the interview so it's not just all over the place
Sometimes, I put him on to fall asleep with
Revive Stronger we all do ;)
Postermaestro I agree i could listen to him for hours. very smart
@@FitMachina lol I do this as well
Please do some sort of roundtable discussion with Lyle and Eric. Would be epic!!!
That would be amazing and is something we're planning. But, time...time is our enemy!
Lyle's the best! Great to find him here. Extremely valuable info
YOHOEE back again! You always upload just after my training session. Best podcast to just relax for a hour
Ha, this is our plan ;P
Amazing podcast! Really informative with great practical applications.
Thanks for listening Jassim!
Been waiting for this one, loving it! Good luck today Steve!🏆
Hopefully, this makes your Saturday!
Nice interview. Nice to see you invited Lyle to do Q&As.
It would be awesome to have him doing Q&A's...however, the questions need to be reeeally good ;P
What a great podcast once again!! Thanks guys! - Charles
Thanks a tonne Charles!
Boom! The man himself.
He is!
Another awesome podcast. Revive Stronger is my favourite Podcast 👍
Man, thanks for always checking in and your support man
this was great info since im around 10% BF currently getting close to my goal and im going through insane cravings and doing a crap ton of cardio to keep my weight loss consistent
Mate, really glad to hear that this was helpful with your journey!
@Kasthetics How did your cut turn out?
Maaan This podcast is informative and learned tons !! Thanks really !
We're trying our best to keep it that way ;)
Lyles so informative..just going tbrough older uploads will he be on again? Thanks
Definitely!
This was great Steve, thanks guys
Always mate. Thanks a ton for your support and always checking in Danny :)
This is awesome. Thank you!
Cheers Ben. Hope you liked it.
- Pascal
Lyle is an absolute genius.
Hey guys. Got a question. Lyle said that you must bring calories atleast to maintenance in order to feel benefits. My question is, since person was on a deficit for a while, how can we exactly know where person's maintenance is now? Because metabolism probably adapted and maintenance is now lower than it was on start.
Yup, depending on the length of the deficit and how much BW you've lost you def want to consider taking off 10 or 200 calories but that would def not be a perfect measure, but calculating maintenance never is anyway haha.
- Coach Jess
another perfect podcast thak you 😊
Snakey, we do our best and continue as long as you want to :)
Great stuff! So it sounds like he's recommending more refeeds as the diet goes longer and longer? I'd love to hear about the bcaa study.
Yes and I like to do the same with my competitive athletes.
Lyle on every thumbnail ever == Andross on Star Fox 64
Hahaha, so true!!
- Coach Pascal
37:49 do we need a crowdfunding campaign?
If you do get Lyle on again, I would like to hear more about his thoughts on the Female Athlete Triad / Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (RED-S) and Energy Availability (EA). I've heard that for most women, problems (loss of menstrual cycle and bone density, etc.) begin when EA is restricted below 30 kcal/kg FFM/day and that 45 kcal/kg FFM/day is considered "optimal" EA for allowing all normal physiological processes and training adaptations to take place. I'm curious about his thoughts on these cutoff values. I'm a male and I think suffering from nil testosterone as a result of RED-S caused by a very long stretch of excessively low calorie dieting. I have since returned to maintenance for 2 weeks and am now bulking, my EA is generally ~41 most days. I would jump up to 45 but am afraid of gaining fat back too quickly as this would put me at a surplus of nearly 800 kcal as opposed to the 500 kcal surplus I'm currently running (current BF% estimated at 6% based upon single site caliper measurements). I'm wondering if it is necessary to meet or exceed this "magical" 45 kcal/kg FFM/day value in order to see complete healing of my negative hormonal effects, or whether my more modest 41 kcal/kg FFM/day value will eventually do the trick, but just take much longer?
Also, curious about his thoughts on using daily calorie variations based on daily training volume (like in his book for Mixed Sports Athletes where rest day maintenance was perhaps 30kcal/kg total body mass plus 5-10 kcal/kg per hour of training) versus using a constant calorie target for all days based upon estimated total weekly activity (i.e. 34 kcal/kg)?
Thanks!
Robert, would be awesome if you could join our facebook group. This is where we're actually collecting questions;
facebook.com/groups/revivestronger/
Robert you seem to be well read in this field. So why not answer your question yourself?
Lyle didn't do the research so his thoughts are the facts you've enumerated.
The cut off point 45kcal/kg/lbm etc are only for females and lastly.. What are you trying to achieve? Perfect hormones with 6%?Lol answer yourself, few articles of Lyle I can point you too, but those are basics, you'd know this already yourself.
Tl:Dr you're above maintenance so enough is enough. Secondly 500 kcal above is probably too much) 200-300kcal max see Lyles article on this.)
Perfect hormones at 6% would be ideal, lol. Doubtful it is achievable though.
But really I think that's what I was pursuing. Coming out of that long cut I was resistant to put body fat back on. I essentially ended up doing a long reverse diet trying to limit body fat regain. When I said I was in a 500 calorie surplus, that was a surplus relative to a calculated/estimated maintenance. In reality I was still below my true maintenance because as I kept adding calories and as my metabolic rate picked back up I got up to 900 kcal above this "estimated" value before I started gaining any weight (other than the initial water weight regain), which ironically did happen as soon as I went over the 45 kcal/kg FFM mark.
I'm still increasing calories gradually every 2 weeks or so until I hit the 1/2 lb per week bodyweight gain mark and will try to keep gaining at that rate for as long as possible, ideally not dieting again for a year or two, lol. I definitely should have been more aggressive with the calorie bumps in the beginning though, more along the lines of the 3dmj recovery diet, because long periods in that energy deficient state caused all sorts of issues in terms of relationships and such.
My main curiosity was in determining how to get as lean as possible without the body sensing that it's in an energy deficient state. I think the intermittent calorie restriction (ICR) methods have promise, staying at maintenance for most of the week and then restricting moderately on dieting days. It would take a long time but provided that the deficit on those days isn't so extreme that it alarms the body.
Without ICR, the maximum daily net calorie deficit that you could shoot for without dropping below the 30 kcal/kg FFM mark would be roughly 30 kcal/kg Fat Mass, so at 15% and 80kgs it would be about 360 kcal, or about 0.4% body weight per week, definitely on the slow side of the 0.5 to 1% bodyweight per week recommendation (and staying at this minimum net calorie intake the deficit would only grow smaller with time as fat is lost), but less likely to cause negative adaptations until a very lean state is reached. In theory, assuming a perfect world, this would take 45 weeks to get down to a super lean 4%. This is assuming many things which I doubt would hold up practically, such as 30 kcal/kg FFM being the actual physiological cutoff for EA deficiency. (Curiously though, I've always wondered where the RMR equation that Arnold gives in his Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding book came from, in there he says that RMR=LBM (lbs) / 2.205 * 30.4, aka 30.4 kcal/kg FFM without factoring in activity, sounds a lot like the EA cutoff to me, perhaps adjusted up with a 10% safety factor... just interesting).
Adding in ICR I still wonder how aggressive you could be and not cause issues. Greg Nuckols did a video talking about a study that looked at maximal rates of fat loss, where he said that bodyfat can supply a maximum of ~22-30 kcal/lb (48 to 66 kcal/kg) of Fat mass per day, and that somewhere in this range is a theoretical maximum deficit that would use primarily bodyfat stores and limit muscle loss. Compared to my earlier estimate based on the EA cutoff this is fairly aggressive and would likely cause metabolic adaptations is sustained daily while fairly lean, but perhaps this could be a good figure for a maximum deficit on dieting days when using ICR methods. Say 4 days at maintenance and 3 days in a 50kcal/kg Fat mass deficit (600 kcal for the earlier 80kg 15% lifter), or alternating these every other day.
It's all theory but things that intrigue me. That's mainly why I would like to hear Lyle's responses, not so much for the answers but for the enjoyment of the discussion itself.
Robert Williams for longer discussion, do you have fb?
For quite some time now that I have not been able to find out - does anyone have the link to the womens' refeeding study (by Anne Loucks - forgive me if I mispelled) that Lyle kept mentioning?
You can always ask him personally I guess :)
- Pascal
Their is an entire college class in this one pod cast. The info is priceless.
Thanks for watching :)
- Coach Jess
need to get scot abel on he is the king of refeeds nutrition muscle building actually everything bodybuilding not sure if you are aware of Scott
Always open for new suggestions :)
- Pascal
💪💪❤️❤️‼️
Thank you!
- Coach Jess
Lyle is the best.
today the industry is full of "self claiming" scientist, like schoenfeld and aragorn, that are nothing more than personal trainers. Shitty athlete and good personal trainer. STOP!
Lyle is very well prepared and is extremely humble.
Lyle is great!
However, just on a note, isn't Brad's & Alan's paper of "nutrient timing revisited" the most downloaded paper of all time?
I don't know if it is the most downloaded paper of all times.
Assuming it is (a lot of mr nobody download papers) that doesn't mean it is the best or that the conclusions are correct. And for me, are not correct.
Maybe the less downloaded papers are about cancer, because just a few people can understand the mechanism behind a carcinoma...does that mean that paper are the worst paper ever?
That said, if you train and your body suck, or you are doing the wrong stuff or your "knowladge" is useless.
Think about it when you see people like schoenfeld giving advice.
Hello, can anybody point me to the facebook group Body Recomposition that Lyle mentioned at the end of video? I can't find it. Thx
facebook.com/groups/810890695609053/
Thank you! Strange that search box doesn't return it.
You have to sub to this as well.
facebook.com/groups/1679699425601693/
A little before 7:56.... Does anyone else craves nuts? I mean I can eat a Peter Pan/ Jeff's crunchy peanut butter jar happily in a sit down. They contain sugar, so no surprises there... but man, then I change for bagged unsalted nuts: lo and behold I'm downing those down too. I'm an 165 cm 54kg endomorph woman trying to put on muscle... who easily stores fat around the mid section :P... I don't particularly enjoy refeeds but see the benefits of it... so when he says we don't crave fats and protein as much as carbs (and we know which kind) I'm wondering if there's a reason for craving nuts above the other that aren't psychological.
Getting diet advice from a warewolf... Now i ve seen it all :)
Or a GOAT ;P
hehe you have a great channel mate! keep up with a good work!! :)
How could the first question not be about the wolverine beard?!
xD Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Lyle's the man, but that's the strangest beard I've ever seen. A slip of the clippers?
Haha, I heard he shaved it off ;P
- Pascal
Very interesting beard
It definitely is
- Pascal