Dr James White and Dr Michael Brown... Two men of whom I have the utmost respect...and all the more so because they're humility is made manifest in their ability to remain sincere friends despite their theological differences in opinions. 😊
Mike Bennett Perhaps they both believe that eventually they'll bring each other to their own particular stance? I have a few theological differences with a sister in the faith but have given up in thinking she will move from her position.. A mutual friend said something that has stuck with me, 'We may share scripture but it is The Spirit who convicts.'.
Lina Keith I have many Christian brothers and sisters as well that I disagree with on some theological issues. But we agree totally on all essential doctrines. The problem with many Christians is that they do not understand the difference between essential and non essential doctrine. Salvation by grace is essential doctrine, the virgin birth is essential doctrine, the deity of Christ is essential doctrine, just to name a few. I feel that Dr. Brown and Dr. White are good friends because they understand this distinction. We can have great fellowship with other believers who we disagree with on non essential elements assuming we agree on essential doctrines.
Michael Morris Yes, you are right there are distinctions to be over looked and other's where compromise cannot be accepted. I've heard your exact point being made by pastors including Hank Hanegraaff. I think it will take something monumental for Believers of different persuasions to set aside differences and accent those non-essentials. Persecution of the kind we haven't experienced yet will perhaps be a motivator. Would you say that resting on the 7th day of the week Sabbath instead of Sunday is a non essential?
Lina Keith Definitely non essential. Even if I am wrong about my stance on this particular issue it has no bearing on my salvation. I disagree with Dr.Brown on his eschatology. Either one of us is right or one of us is wrong or we are both wrong. This is a non essential issue therefore does not determine our salvation. We agree totally on the death, burial, and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is an essential doctrine.
I come from a charismatic background and experience (tongues, prophecy, interpretation- to God be the glory) but am convinced of the Reformed definition of the gospel. In other words, I now understand the centrality of the gospel while still exercise spiritual gifts for his glory! Soli Deo Gloria. Hence, I'm a Reformed Charismatic or continuaist..I can't deny what my orthopraxy attests of my orthodoxy or vice versa. Thank you. Shalom.
SBG - I'm a previously reformed, 27 years, now seeking charismatic. In my study, it seems the Reformed folks think they are superior to other systems, peoples, beliefs, - and they are secure, chosen in their position. I'm seeing God to be bigger and wider than the Calvinist system.
SBG - Also, it appears Calvinists are really Neo-Catholics. They are merging more and more towards their thinking and have parallel doctrines. To not be Catholic/reformed, leaves either a cult, cessationalist Primitive Baptist, dispensationalist, or Charismatic.
I think you just helped me define where I myself stand. too came to Christ from a pentacostal background and cannot deny the Spiritual gifts because thats how I was born again! But I agree with the Reformed decrees/beliefs and the pre nicene Church fathers so I'd be just like you a Reformed/Continuist
@@Deacondan240 I'd recommend further investigation of Catholic doctrine. It's nothing like biblical reformed theology. They're antithetical to one another.
I get my reformed doctrine in 30 gallon barrels w radiated junk dripping down the sides of the barrel. But then I began speaking in tongues one night in personal prayer. Also I was awakened to pray for my wife when she was in pain and having heart problems, then next morning she was healed! The Lord can do what he wants whether you like it or not. I love Him and treasure Christ above all and the Word of God is never to be broken. He does miracles and all to his Glory. Excess and charismania is reprehensible. But I thank The Lord for the Spirit of God who points me to Christ always.
Amen i thought of that. We may all not agree on the same thing, as long as your born again then hallelujah ill see you up there, but boy oh BOY it will take interesting where every one of us fell short in our doctrine haha
I am incredibly relieved to have a mainstream scholar like Dr. Brown take up this issue. Too many have gone in extreme directions but God's Word keeps us in check with the inferences we often draw from life.
@@Alex.Kalashnik not from my experience. You are biased so you only see when it happens to your side. I'm not bashing you its normal people usually only internalize when it affects them.
I didn't notice any name calling but I wanted to listen to it again anyway. I'll keep an ear out, then give my opinion. I know Paul often got fiery in his letters, so I'm curious if this might be a difference in understanding the word's usage.
In my opinion, I think that people will blindly accept what a preacher says without checking the Bible. That is the problem with tradition for tradition is not in the Bible and are made up by people. A lot of doctrines are not in the Bible and to ask the question is to question your own salvation. So, people just believe.
This teaching is needed in Africa where the "extremes" you are talking about are not only normal (not exaggerated) but promoted. I will try to include some of this video in a hermeneutics course I am putting together for a country in Africa. Good job. Long overdue. Final note. If you were to speak in Africa to "pastors" about this topic, it may start a much needed change. Thanks for all you do.
I do a lot of work in Africa (primarily DR Congo, Butundi, Rwanda, Chad and Nigeria). The weak and strange doctrines we come across is mind boggling. This week, I'm dealing with Kimbanguists. They teach that the father, son and holy spirit, aka the trinity, are 3 men living in the Congo even as we speak, that the white man has corrupted scriptures, etc. And according to Wikipedia, they have 20M followers.
God still speak today..Im sorry for the bad experiences but please don’t limit or deny the Holy Spirit’s working in and through people of faith in our time. I feel more and more compelled to start a Chanel where I can interview friends of my child hood and my everyday clients to share their stories. I think it would be awesome for people who sit on the fence or as spectators to hear the testimonies of normal ordinary people. Im a poolguy in Texas and I hardly ever tell people Im a pastor’s kid and that I was raised in a small town in South Africa. Last year I had client who came out to speak to me at the pool. She told me how Jesus met her in a dream. She came from the Hindu faith and while fasting 40 days for her dying husband she believe Jesus healed her husband. My one friend is a veterinarian and worked on horses and cattle. One night my dad had a dream with the face of my friend being all smashed in and bleeding. My dad was so horrified by the dream that he called my friend Roedolf in the middle of the night and prayed with him. A week or so later Roedolf got kicked in the face by a horse. His nose was off his face about, his jaw broken and his face unrecognizable about. They had to reconstruct his face. I myself almost drowned when I was 9. I fell into a creek that flooded during a storm on a farm. I was caught in tbe stream and pulled under into a pipe underground. I washed out on a bench after being dragged through bob wire. A few days before the event my mom dreamt I was drowning. She prayed for me. Is it possible that God was warning his people and wanting them to pray? Let me tell you why I believe some people hear God more than others and why God uses some more than others. My experience growing up was that I saw God doing healings and prophesy through people who prayed a lot. I had a dad who prayed through the night for his church. He prayed and cried so loud in the living room that you could sleep. It was like he was begging and pleading God for intervention. Another story. My guitar coach was diagnosed with TB. I got notified that Henry would die during the night and that the elders where at the hospital praying for him. I immediately got on my bicycle as a 15year old and rushed to the hospital. We prayed and pleaded God. Henry was fighting for his life. He struggled to breath. The doctors said his lungs were finished. Man we prayed and prayed. All I know is Henry was released from hospital. If you saw the man on that bed it is incredible to know that he walked out there the next day. For sure we prayed for people and they died. We prayed for others and they lived. All I say is that it isn’t wrong to desire God to intervene, we are called to pray and to Seek God. How am I suppose to deny the things I have experienced. God has answered so many of our prayers. Very detailed things even. Many things stayed unanswered but that doesn’t mean God doesn’t heal or still talk today. Im not saying we need signs and wonders. Blessed is he who believe without seeing signs and wonders. People see wonders and still don’t want to follow God.
[genuine question] how do both Dr. Brown and Dr. White understand the miracles (including raising the dead) and confirmed prophecies that occur in “modalists” churches? Most have never believed in the trinity meaning that they can’t be called apostates that were once given the gifts when they were in orthodoxy.
Good question. I find how in Deuteronomy when Hod warns us of false prophets the bible says that false prophets can still produce true prophecies. Gifts signs and wonders never confirm doctrine or a relationship with God. Only His word can do that. 1 John 4:1 tells us to test things. I hope I helped
Eugene Nunn - Dr. Brown was saying that false prophets that have the gifts were given those gifts before they turned false. But if modalists have always been false, then how did God give them the gifts? God has given them these gifts. They are the same as the ones in Mark 16:17-18 (same signs amongst trinitarians). God confirms His Word with signs following and “modalists” preach the gospel, people are converted and they follow Jesus and many are healed and see miracles. According to Jesus, false prophets are known by their fruits but these are good fruits.
kalashnik3 - no, they believe that Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament manifest in the flesh. They baptise in the name of Jesus like in the book of acts.
Julian D'Oyley Well, Trinity is a hard doctrine. The word itself is not in Scripture, although the doctrine is correctly derived from the available revelation. I think modalists are probably saved, although they would be more correct to pray to God the Father.
Pastor David Pawson bottes that Evangelicals could best come together if they started with themselves and looked closer into where they possibly may be wrong. He pointed out blind spots in both camps and was fairly accurate in what he has to say. He is worth looking up on the topic.
Dr Brown’s video was gaslighting me. One second I thought it was a still picture... I look away and out of the corner of my eyes, I think I see movement. Then I look and it still just still picture. Men! I thought I was running crazy. Good thing I stuck a little longer to realise it’s a struggling live video lol
Can Dr. Michael Brown just debate with someone who will actually challenge him, call him out and push him on some of these things? Someone like Justin Peters or JD Hall on the Charismatic Movement and Cessationism. James White is good friends with Brown so there may be a bit of a bias there or a holding back. White didn't really seem to "ask the hard questions"
Apologia5 I think Dr.Brown will be debating some one from Reforming America Ministries (RAM). Can't remember his name though. He's a hyper-Calvinist as far as I know.
Nice. Although is he debating him on Calvinism or Cessationism? There are many Calvinists that are not Cessationists. Peters and Hall seem to be the two that have been calling Brown out and critisizing him the most these days it seems.
I would ask myself, would Jesus tell someone to lay down to walk on their back, so he could avoid touching the ground? No! HE would lay down, just like HE laid down his life for all of us!!
I grew up Pentecostal but not NAR. Thank the Lord he took me out of this teaching. There are many Pentecostals that speak out against the hyper charismatics and will preach the truth about the heretics (Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation Church, etc) but many Pentecostals have zero discernment and are intertwined with NAR and believe all the heresies. I love learning from James White. Dr. Brown, please call out the heretics and name them by name so that Pentecostals will stay away from them. I warn my Pentecostal family and friends, but they don’t believe me. They twist scripture and have zero discernment. Maybe you can warn them by telling them that these “prophets” are false teachers and most of the healing has went here about in other countries are false. I use to believe all this stuff 🤦🏽♀️.
Do you have numbers, stats to prove what you say? You can't say that many Pentecostals are intertwined with NAR. For instance, if you take cooperative fellowship like AoG, there are Churches with different styles some can be Neo Pentecostals, Classical Pentecostal, Baptist or not a lot of speaking in Tongues.
You know Dr M, 1John2: 27, " Holy spirit teaching us." He is the very Spirit of truth. A simple prayer in faith to our Father, in Jesus name will do it. The holy Spirit within us will begin teaching us as we read and with time much more.
i would really like to know how cessationists could ever reconcile 1 Cor. 14 with their belief that prophecy is like 'producing scripture' - as James White suggests - and since scripture is complete, there would be no more prophecy. If that were true, we would probably have lost a lot of scripture, because the people in Corinth were urged to prophecy a lot by Paul. And, obviously they did, because Paul even put a limit to it. Philip had daughters who prophesied, but none of those prophecies ended up in the bible. Did God give scripture and then allowed it to simply disappear? I can't believe that. Also, in the Old Testament we read about many unnamed prophets, even prophet schools or the prophets visited by king Saul ('Is Saul among the prophets too?'). Their prophecies didn't make it to the bible either. The assumption that real prophecy is always at the same level as scripture is simply not true. There is obviously a category of prophecy that is not meant as scripture, that only has relevance in its context of time, place and audience and that can't be found in scripture. There's no need to declare it obsolete.
Good reply. There is another view that would never be canvassed for being too heretical. And that is that the Bible is false book compiled of the true word of God. I know this is difficult to comprehend at first. And for most, never to be understood. I think I know what the apostle Paul would think if he was to see what man has done today with the Holy Spirit inspired letters that he wrote to the churches, how they made it into a book and sell it at a price and calling it the Bible. I think he'd be aghast. I also think that God, knowing all things, made provision for this to take place so that in the last days revival of the church could take place - exactly what happened when the printing press and translation of the acts and the letters allowed lay people to comprehend the truth concerning their sonship through Christ. The Bible is the harlot, babylon's, book. But its contents belong to the sons of God. Difficult to grasp, yes.
Thus says the Lord is just like saying says the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit does speak. When we are familiar with the voice of God, we can say what He says and follow with, "says the spirit of God."
Not everyone is a theological genius, or a linguistic scholar etc. it’s not a prerequisite to our salvation. Error being addressed on both sides, yes of course. Sweeping condemnation and mocking of believers such as MacArthur has engaged in, it’s divisive, not good, not helpful at all in the edification of the body of Christ.
So calling out false teachers isn’t scripture..? I agree with a lot of Dr Brown and Dr Whites and Pastor McArthur .. but I myself put no faith in them.. just the Gospel.. which is black and white.. truth is truth..
@@jayrocky9067 now if I asked you as a person about a certain biblical matter, how you view it “in black and white” you would then have an opinion which needs to be checked against the truth of black and white scripture...right? At some point we will have to gain a reasonable understanding using basic logical literary methodology. Ie; biblical Central theme, immediate context, overall context, cultural context, meaning in plain text etc, ... yes?
Dr. Michael Brown has said he's up to debate John MacArthur and has even contacted him but to no avail. I don't think MacArthur does much debates as far as I know.
Macarthur prefers in house discussions, Brown affirms Todd White and Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Copeland , Calls them brothers, cant blame MacArthur not to give this Charlatan hugger the time of day.
Brother James, like all "I go by the Bible" folks simply don't go by the Bible...we know the gifts of the Spirit because of the teaching of scripture...I speak in tongues because of the Bible, I prophesy, heal the sick, have raised ONE person from the dead because of the scriptural teaching on these issues....James denies the plain teaching of scripture...too bad for him
@Vine 101Culpable of what??? That's ignorant....Lots of people raised the dead in the Bible, Jesus raised maybe 4 or so...others maybe one...the apostles were commanded to do it, Elijah and Elisha did it...but no one emptied cemeteries...just did as the Lord led, in his power and in his name
This was very interesting....I really think that when we get out of identifying ourselves as Calvinist or Charamatic or Arminian etc. and just identify ourselves as Christians and read the Bible with out our Church culture we may come to a clearer understanding of the word. I listen to these interviews or debates and find that both sides having something valuable to offer. For example I agree that the gifts have not ceased, I don’t see anything in scripture that tells me that. Also (I know this wasn’t discussed in this interview) I don’t see where in scripture you can lose your salvation or that we don’t have free will. I probably mostly agree with Dr. Brown however, my reformed brothers I think (like myself) are just fed up with people barking like dogs and cocking like crows and mocking the scripture. I think I have more in common anymore with a sincere Baptist that doesn’t believe in the gifts then most Pentecostals. It is refreshing though to hear a civil discussion on these very important topics. God bless you both!!
I was converted by the lord with supernatural means. Convicted of my sin, I came to Jesus in private in prayer. It was relief for my burdens. But one night I asked him to please fill the void. Jesus showed me himself in full glory, only for a single moment. It was as if glory itself was in front of me then entered into me. It was gone in a blink of an eye and I didnt know what to think or do. Stayed on my knees for a full 5 minutes, unsure if I should move, mouth agape in awe. Slowly I crawled to my bed and picked up my remote. 111, it was the christian channel. A channel I never been to before. Jesus was talking and he said "I will never leave you or forsake you". My heart filled with awe and tears. I watched the documentary and then entered into temptation later that night. Watched the very same messed up porn that led me to the lord in repentance in the first place!!! After I indulged, I cried myself to sleep that night, asking Jesus how could I do that when he just gave me his spirit. I was awoken up by my mom, banging and shouting in joy saying God wants me to show you a bible scripture!!!! It was about sexual sin, how men fall into that when they are separated from God. I was filled with love from head to toe, God was saying I forgive you, just come to me. That event taught me that Jesus is very real, his spirit is active, and the word of God is his word and he works through his faithful too. That event rooted me in the faith, never doubting christ existence ever since. At first I turned away from God, even though I knew Jesus was real now I indulged in video games and hid from my calling for a year. I really wanted to get away and seek the lord, but I didnt trust myself. I was a 3 pack a day smoker with no self control. Didnt trust that I could do it on my own. This small pentecostal traveling music group rolled into town. They were based in georgia while I live in florida. They happened to need a bass player (me) and given my desires, I knew it would be the right place to seek the lord, away from temptation and computers. I barely read any scripture at all at that point, and was still new to Jesus. I left with them the same day I met them. Left everything behind, job family friends and took off. They put a lot of emphasis on tongues and wanted me to have that "gift" as well. Saying I needed to seek the holy ghost (as if I didnt have it). They were king james only as well. I was put on the spot 5 different times for an hour with people praying over me in tongues. Nothing happened, ever. Their doctrine read into the word of God, I was taught look they spoke in tongues here so they must have spoken in tongues at this event in acts!!! I just believed them because they were far more experienced. I started to believe I didnt actually have the holy ghost, and that warps the bible. For example paul the apostle said if you do not have the spirit of christ, you do not belong to christ. Jesus said you must be born again. Well when your entire doctrine is equating that to speaking in tongues, you can see how its a salvation issue. It was a perfect storm because I would get so wired up seeking God in private over there, reading King James 1610 english. Fasting without telling people. And my mind didnt have an off switch. I would be up for 5 days straight fasting and worshiping God in private and start hallucinating. Towards the end pastor showed a documentary of a testimony of someone who claimed the lord sent to hell in a vision and experienced the torments of the lake of fire. Well that caused me to go on a fast praying constantly that the lord use me like he used his servant job and give me a powerful testimony. As if sacrificing my body and soul means anything to the almighty. Only sacrifice that is worth a damn is christs sacrifice. I got what I prayed for, I developed paranoid schizophrenia and was under constant torments for a year straight. Tactile audio and visual hallucinations. I believed I had died and was being judged by satan himself. Everyone around me was now a demon. The church didnt know what was going on and exiled me. My dad drove all the way to georgia to rescue me. It took an entire year to recover. One day it was gone overnight without medication. It took a few years after that to fully recover. I didnt know if I was still dead, if the devil was messing with me, if it would come back at all. During this time period I got on disability income and to this day I am living check to check in subsidized housing. Needless to say I was destroyed by over-zealousness in a false doctrine. Charismatics beware, do not go around assuming speaking in tongues = holy ghost. They never directly said I didnt have the holy ghost, but there doctrine read into the bible that tongues always occurred with a holy ghost event. Oh and I still never spoke in tongues to this day, but I have healed someone before. My mentor was complaining of his gout flaring up real bad dropping me off from church. (I still dont drive to this day). And I just grabbed his foot and fire came upon me starting praying in the spirit for healing. It was like pure instinct. Hes never had a symptom since, and now hes a pastor at his own church and tells that testimony to his flock. This occurred after the schizophrenia event. And I still have never spoke in tongues.
@@Vae07 Who knows man. God is good, hes the heavenly father, im doing good now. And I believe in reformed theology or TULIP. John 6:37-40,44 yeah. I believe I have an unconditional election over here who else can say they dealt with what I did lol
Why does James White continue to hold that God's omniscience is tried to an eternal decree? Is God's *omnipotence* also tied to an eternal decree? Was God, at some point, not omnipotent? If God was not omnipotent before his decree, then how can his decree add to his power? I hold that God needed *nothing*, added *nothing* to himself by any decree. Not his knowledge nor his power depend on anything outside of himself.
38:35 "Where do you end up drawing the line?" I am a Continuationist and believe that Prophecy is 100% accurate, 100% of the time. I am not an elder, pastor, or Bishop, but if I was I would remove a false Prophet from our midst if they gave a false Prophecy. As it stands at the moment, I will not fellowship at a Church that has a false Prophet in its midst. Where I am less certain, is in regards to Repentance. I believe all sin is forgivable, save the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So a false Prophet can be restored, but I don't think I would ever trust them to Prophesy again.
I've always thought... Jesus said that many will come to Him on that day saying they did miracles, and prophesying, and casting out demons, all in His name, but He'll tell them to depart from Him. Obviously reading it, it shows that they either had a secret life, of it's because they were using the works of miracles as their "get-out-of-hell" free card, rather than relying what Christ has done. But never the less, the verse is in reference to the day of Judgement. If on the day of Judgement, people will say that they did miracles and casted out demons and prophesied in the name of Christ, does this then furthermore confirm that the gifts will indeed continue until Christ returns? Again, Jesus wasn't saying in the verse that those who do these things are automatically going to be departed from Him, but He was displaying that using these things as a means of saying that your saved on that day, rather than fully relying on what He's already done through the cross and empty tomb, is the equivalent of spitting in His face, basically, as again, they use miracles as a means for salvation, or they lived a secret life, but again I ask, nevertheless... Does it confirm that the gifts continue until Christ returns?
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. 27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn. In all the churches that preach Jesus. Good and the bad. and Jesus says He will figure it out. There are false and true teachers, preachers, evangelists, prophets, apostles in the church why is this so hard to understand?
You popped in there with a Hebrew word of the day, the name of God. You claim Yahweh, with no Scriptural proof. 1700 times ancient Hebrew manuscripts have it written with the full vowel points; Yud Hay Vav Hay with the vowel points; YeHoVaH. Not even one states: Yahweh. Yah is the poetic short form of YeHoVaH. Hebrew names that incorporate the name at the end, like Eliyahu, Nehemiyah etc. use the short form Yah. Others that incorporate the name at the beginning use the beginning of the name; Yeho like Yehoshua, Yehoshaphat, Yehoyada, Yehoram, Yehonadav, etc.
Why do Pentecostals teach that one must speak in tongues ? Paul clearly teaches that not all speak in tongues . I have wrestled with this subject because ive watched many believers be basically pushed out of church because they didnt have the gift. I also seen tongues being "taught" by elders who say just start speaking babytalk or say Coca-Cola over and pver and then presto it will happen. BLAH !!! I do believe in the gifts BUT I also feel like its very rare these days to see a true movement. The pentecostal charismatic body has turned the gifts into a circus . What we see today is not the Holy Spirit but fleshly men. They usually use tongues, the easiest to fake , and not as Paul taught them. Another thing is people being slain in the spirit . The bible does not teach this common fraud thats in 99% of local pentecostal churches. Falling down shaking convulsing or laughing is not the spirit of God . These things break my heart and made me walk away from the church. Now I cannot find a church body cause reformers are dry lacking the Holy Spirit . Yet i also see the opposite a crazy out of control unbiblical use of gifts allowed to playout . I hunger for true holyness, unfortunately in my area all the churches are drying up . Preaching is non-existent, I believe we are seeing the great falling away a famine of His word. There's plenty of denominations , one for just about anyones taste . But i cannot find a church of The Way ....but theres plenty of coffee and donuts.
Using scripture alone there is no way to refute truths about the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, apostles and prophets in the church today, etc.. Every argument against these things has to go beyond scripture and make assumptions based on post biblical church history. That is elevating post biblical historical writings as Holy Spirit inspired God breathed text. Cessationists who claim to believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God and ad extra-biblical material to defend their positions are hypocrites and need to be exposed as such. People like James White entertain objections and criticisms easily enough and fall right into the trap of the enemy. They are deceived and believe lies rather than the truth. Mt. 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
Every ministry that Jesus established; apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shepherds) and teachers were to function throughout the whole church age as Paul wrote in Ephesians 4. Yes there are apostles today in every inhabited country in the world at one time or another. It doesn't matter if they call themselves "apostle" because it's not a title, it's a function just as the other 4 ministries are. Many have used it as a title in error. Jesus determines who apostles, prophets etc. are, you don't choose that for yourself and there are many false ones pretending to be what they are not. Spiritual gifts are alive and well today also, just as alive and well as the Holy Spirit is. Wherever the Holy Spirit is welcome chances are that spiritual gifts are happening. It isn't always obvious if it's not a verbal gift.
Word of God (which is word from God) is self authenctaing, how will anyone test it, or should test it? Testing God's word with God's word does not make sense, can someone clarify this?
@@supersmart671 I understand that but in today's world, prophecies can be wrong without the prophet being false. Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:20,21 says to test them because the prophecies may not be from God. Today prophecies are not on the same level as Scripture. Look at the last election. All of the prophets said that God told them that Trump was going to be re-elected. They all proved false. They weren't hearing from God.
@@supersmart671 If someone prophecies let two or more test it. I guess to see if it goes against Scripture and if it comes true. The word from God would not contradict Scripture nor will it return void.
What about addressing speaking in tongues in church, something the apostle Paul forbade. Babbling crazily, falling down in absurdity etc. This is not church. Church is the coming together to build each other up in the knowledge of Christ; some have a word, a teaching, a song, a prayer, a prophecy and each in an orderly manner. For the Spirit brings order not disorder. We congregate to build up each other in love.
Most cessationist hang there entire argument on a contradiction between Scripture and the prophet prophecing as if the entire Bible wasn't written in the presence of scripture at the time except for maybe Moses. For example when Isaiah prophecied he was subject to Moses. When Paul wrote he was subject to Moses and Isaiah. In fact it seems normal that current prophecy would exist contemporaneously with Scripture not in opposition to it.
You had to admit the charismatic movement has a lot of unbiblical teachings. Like satans kingdom is in the second heaven and demons torture people in hell and all the weird trips to heaven and hell.
Grew up charismatic and was there till age 19. Returned to Christ and the church at age 26 and I'm 49 now. I've never heard of the teachings that you listed. Do you have particular denomination that your thinking of?
In terms of private revelation, the rule is it must be backed by other witnesses. A pastor who claims private revelation without consulting other Christians is a false teacher.
I have a question: in the united states, you can make a live doing things like this?? because in my country it´s impossible!!!! people need to work hard if they find a job!!!!
Dead Seminary, test it against scripture...NT was in the ascribing of scripture...your "this saith the Lord" is not holy scripture or God breathed...where is the line, indeed.
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I think, you really don't know what you believe. You believe a little of this and a little of that, and it's o.k. To fellowship with people that are of cultish beliefs. I don't care to listen to you again.
Dr James White and Dr Michael Brown...
Two men of whom I have the utmost respect...and all the more so because they're humility is made manifest in their ability to remain sincere friends despite their theological differences in opinions. 😊
Mike Bennett I could not agree more. Very well said!
Mike Bennett
Perhaps they both believe that eventually they'll bring each other to their own particular stance? I have a few theological differences with a sister in the faith but have given up in thinking she will move from her position..
A mutual friend said something that has stuck with me, 'We may share scripture but it is The Spirit who convicts.'.
Lina Keith I have many Christian brothers and sisters as well that I disagree with on some theological issues. But we agree totally on all essential doctrines. The problem with many Christians is that they do not understand the difference between essential and non essential doctrine. Salvation by grace is essential doctrine, the virgin birth is essential doctrine, the deity of Christ is essential doctrine, just to name a few. I feel that Dr. Brown and Dr. White are good friends because they understand this distinction. We can have great fellowship with other believers who we disagree with on non essential elements assuming we agree on essential doctrines.
Michael Morris
Yes, you are right there are distinctions to be over looked and other's where compromise cannot be accepted.
I've heard your exact point being made by pastors including Hank Hanegraaff. I think it will take something monumental for Believers of different persuasions to set aside differences and accent those non-essentials. Persecution of the kind we haven't experienced yet will perhaps be a motivator.
Would you say that resting on the 7th day of the week Sabbath instead of Sunday is a non essential?
Lina Keith Definitely non essential. Even if I am wrong about my stance on this particular issue it has no bearing on my salvation. I disagree with Dr.Brown on his eschatology. Either one of us is right or one of us is wrong or we are both wrong. This is a non essential issue therefore does not determine our salvation. We agree totally on the death, burial, and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is an essential doctrine.
This is how brothers in Christ should handle theological differences... Agree to disagree, yet remain brothers and friends.
I love how I can hear the friendship in the interview.
God bless you Dr Brown and Dr James. The Holy Spirit of God is Active but we should be aware of false teachers.
I come from a charismatic background and experience (tongues, prophecy, interpretation- to God be the glory) but am convinced of the Reformed definition of the gospel. In other words, I now understand the centrality of the gospel while still exercise spiritual gifts for his glory! Soli Deo Gloria.
Hence, I'm a Reformed Charismatic or continuaist..I can't deny what my orthopraxy attests of my orthodoxy or vice versa. Thank you. Shalom.
SBG - I'm a previously reformed, 27 years, now seeking charismatic. In my study, it seems the Reformed folks think they are superior to other systems, peoples, beliefs, - and they are secure, chosen in their position. I'm seeing God to be bigger and wider than the Calvinist system.
SBG - Also, it appears Calvinists are really Neo-Catholics. They are merging more and more towards their thinking and have parallel doctrines. To not be Catholic/reformed, leaves either a cult, cessationalist Primitive Baptist, dispensationalist, or Charismatic.
I think you just helped me define where I myself stand. too came to Christ from a pentacostal background and cannot deny the Spiritual gifts because thats how I was born again! But I agree with the Reformed decrees/beliefs and the pre nicene Church fathers so I'd be just like you a Reformed/Continuist
Well said.
@@Deacondan240 I'd recommend further investigation of Catholic doctrine. It's nothing like biblical reformed theology. They're antithetical to one another.
Thanks pastor James White for all you do in bringing the truth of scripture to the church.
I get my reformed doctrine in 30 gallon barrels w radiated junk dripping down the sides of the barrel. But then I began speaking in tongues one night in personal prayer. Also I was awakened to pray for my wife when she was in pain and having heart problems, then next morning she was healed! The Lord can do what he wants whether you like it or not. I love Him and treasure Christ above all and the Word of God is never to be broken. He does miracles and all to his Glory. Excess and charismania is reprehensible. But I thank The Lord for the Spirit of God who points me to Christ always.
Lol.... this is awesome. The same Jesus I know. He is spontanious, supernatural, and, way more exciting than religion.
We all see through a dim glass. Good thing is, when we get to heaven, such disagreements will be brought to rest.
@The Last Catholic someone has been drinking too much wine.
Amen
@The Last Catholic Podcast I feel so sorry for you bro. Will be praying for you
Amen i thought of that. We may all not agree on the same thing, as long as your born again then hallelujah ill see you up there, but boy oh BOY it will take interesting where every one of us fell short in our doctrine haha
I am incredibly relieved to have a mainstream scholar like Dr. Brown take up this issue. Too many have gone in extreme directions but God's Word keeps us in check with the inferences we often draw from life.
I love both of these brothers. I come from a reformed position but I do dislike all the name calling within this in house debate.
Normally it’s the Calvinists who do the name calling.
@@Alex.Kalashnik Those evil lovers of Devil doctrines!
@@Alex.Kalashnik not from my experience. You are biased so you only see when it happens to your side. I'm not bashing you its normal people usually only internalize when it affects them.
I didn't notice any name calling but I wanted to listen to it again anyway. I'll keep an ear out, then give my opinion. I know Paul often got fiery in his letters, so I'm curious if this might be a difference in understanding the word's usage.
This is such a good, respectful conversation without any want to heresy hunt, or anything like that!
“It’s easy to cool down a fanatic than to warm up a corpse” - that’s Gold!
In my opinion, I think that people will blindly accept what a preacher says without checking the Bible. That is the problem with tradition for tradition is not in the Bible and are made up by people. A lot of doctrines are not in the Bible and to ask the question is to question your own salvation. So, people just believe.
I was leaning towards continuationist , but after this video, I had to take a step back
This teaching is needed in Africa where the "extremes" you are talking about are not only normal (not exaggerated) but promoted. I will try to include some of this video in a hermeneutics course I am putting together for a country in Africa. Good job. Long overdue.
Final note. If you were to speak in Africa to "pastors" about this topic, it may start a much needed change. Thanks for all you do.
I do a lot of work in Africa (primarily DR Congo, Butundi, Rwanda, Chad and Nigeria). The weak and strange doctrines we come across is mind boggling. This week, I'm dealing with Kimbanguists. They teach that the father, son and holy spirit, aka the trinity, are 3 men living in the Congo even as we speak, that the white man has corrupted scriptures, etc. And according to Wikipedia, they have 20M followers.
Wow! This is a conversation that should have gone on as long as necessary. Why cut it so short and leave so much unanswered?
I think cuz Dr White said Dr Brown will have him on his channel next week.
I found this very informative. Thank you.
I like that they're friends. I'm on Dr Brown's side.
I really appreciate that these two men can disagree but still be very respectful towards eachother, it's really refreshing!
God still speak today..Im sorry for the bad experiences but please don’t limit or deny the Holy Spirit’s working in and through people of faith in our time. I feel more and more compelled to start a Chanel where I can interview friends of my child hood and my everyday clients to share their stories. I think it would be awesome for people who sit on the fence or as spectators to hear the testimonies of normal ordinary people.
Im a poolguy in Texas and I hardly ever tell people Im a pastor’s kid and that I was raised in a small town in South Africa. Last year I had client who came out to speak to me at the pool. She told me how Jesus met her in a dream. She came from the Hindu faith and while fasting 40 days for her dying husband she believe Jesus healed her husband.
My one friend is a veterinarian and worked on horses and cattle. One night my dad had a dream with the face of my friend being all smashed in and bleeding. My dad was so horrified by the dream that he called my friend Roedolf in the middle of the night and prayed with him. A week or so later Roedolf got kicked in the face by a horse. His nose was off his face about, his jaw broken and his face unrecognizable about. They had to reconstruct his face. I myself almost drowned when I was 9. I fell into a creek that flooded during a storm on a farm. I was caught in tbe stream and pulled under into a pipe underground. I washed out on a bench after being dragged through bob wire. A few days before the event my mom dreamt I was drowning. She prayed for me. Is it possible that God was warning his people and wanting them to pray?
Let me tell you why I believe some people hear God more than others and why God uses some more than others. My experience growing up was that I saw God doing healings and prophesy through people who prayed a lot. I had a dad who prayed through the night for his church. He prayed and cried so loud in the living room that you could sleep. It was like he was begging and pleading God for intervention.
Another story. My guitar coach was diagnosed with TB. I got notified that Henry would die during the night and that the elders where at the hospital praying for him. I immediately got on my bicycle as a 15year old and rushed to the hospital. We prayed and pleaded God. Henry was fighting for his life. He struggled to breath. The doctors said his lungs were finished. Man we prayed and prayed. All I know is Henry was released from hospital. If you saw the man on that bed it is incredible to know that he walked out there the next day. For sure we prayed for people and they died. We prayed for others and they lived. All I say is that it isn’t wrong to desire God to intervene, we are called to pray and to
Seek God. How am I suppose to deny the things I have experienced. God has answered so many of our prayers. Very detailed things even. Many things stayed unanswered but that doesn’t mean God doesn’t heal or still talk today.
Im not saying we need signs and wonders. Blessed is he who believe without seeing signs and wonders. People see wonders and still don’t want to follow God.
Lots of turning the music up loud, going to breaks and cutting James White off whenever his questions were too uncomfortable .
this man's jaw makes superheros look like little girls.
Lol
What you gentlemen are doing is awesome. May God continue to bless you both!
Love these to guys! So grateful for there ministries and friendship!
[genuine question] how do both Dr. Brown and Dr. White understand the miracles (including raising the dead) and confirmed prophecies that occur in “modalists” churches? Most have never believed in the trinity meaning that they can’t be called apostates that were once given the gifts when they were in orthodoxy.
Good question. I find how in Deuteronomy when Hod warns us of false prophets the bible says that false prophets can still produce true prophecies. Gifts signs and wonders never confirm doctrine or a relationship with God. Only His word can do that. 1 John 4:1 tells us to test things.
I hope I helped
Eugene Nunn - Dr. Brown was saying that false prophets that have the gifts were given those gifts before they turned false. But if modalists have always been false, then how did God give them the gifts? God has given them these gifts. They are the same as the ones in Mark 16:17-18 (same signs amongst trinitarians). God confirms His Word with signs following and “modalists” preach the gospel, people are converted and they follow Jesus and many are healed and see miracles. According to Jesus, false prophets are known by their fruits but these are good fruits.
So who are the modalists? Are they unitarian?
kalashnik3 - no, they believe that Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament manifest in the flesh. They baptise in the name of Jesus like in the book of acts.
Julian D'Oyley Well, Trinity is a hard doctrine. The word itself is not in Scripture, although the doctrine is correctly derived from the available revelation. I think modalists are probably saved, although they would be more correct to pray to God the Father.
Before prophesying, my Pastor has people say: “This is what I believe the Lord is saying.”
So it’s not so much: “THUS SAYS THE LORD.”
Pastor David Pawson bottes that Evangelicals could best come together if they started with themselves and looked closer into where they possibly may be wrong.
He pointed out blind spots in both camps and was fairly accurate in what he has to say.
He is worth looking up on the topic.
Yes, agreed. David Pawson was an outstanding teacher with a good balance. I only wish his ministry had influenced the UK church more.
Dr Brown’s video was gaslighting me.
One second I thought it was a still picture... I look away and out of the corner of my eyes, I think I see movement.
Then I look and it still just still picture.
Men! I thought I was running crazy.
Good thing I stuck a little longer to realise it’s a struggling live video lol
Sorry Dr. Brown don't agree with your assessment and interpretation of scripture, but love Dr. Brown anyway and some of his teaching
❤️ Wonderful discussion. As a charismatic I appreciated the balance presented.
A lot of junk going on giving the gifts of the Spirit a bad reputation.
Can Dr. Michael Brown just debate with someone who will actually challenge him, call him out and push him on some of these things? Someone like Justin Peters or JD Hall on the Charismatic Movement and Cessationism. James White is good friends with Brown so there may be a bit of a bias there or a holding back. White didn't really seem to "ask the hard questions"
Apologia5 I think Dr.Brown will be debating some one from Reforming America Ministries (RAM). Can't remember his name though. He's a hyper-Calvinist as far as I know.
Nice. Although is he debating him on Calvinism or Cessationism? There are many Calvinists that are not Cessationists. Peters and Hall seem to be the two that have been calling Brown out and critisizing him the most these days it seems.
Apologia5 He has with Phil Johnson.
It was on Cessationism.
Bob Builder Agreed, there is no scriptural basis for cessationism.
I would ask myself, would Jesus tell someone to lay down to walk on their back, so he could avoid touching the ground? No! HE would lay down, just like HE laid down his life for all of us!!
I grew up Pentecostal but not NAR. Thank the Lord he took me out of this teaching. There are many Pentecostals that speak out against the hyper charismatics and will preach the truth about the heretics (Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation Church, etc) but many Pentecostals have zero discernment and are intertwined with NAR and believe all the heresies. I love learning from James White. Dr. Brown, please call out the heretics and name them by name so that Pentecostals will stay away from them. I warn my Pentecostal family and friends, but they don’t believe me. They twist scripture and have zero discernment. Maybe you can warn them by telling them that these “prophets” are false teachers and most of the healing has went here about in other countries are false. I use to believe all this stuff 🤦🏽♀️.
Do you have numbers, stats to prove what you say? You can't say that many Pentecostals are intertwined with NAR. For instance, if you take cooperative fellowship like AoG, there are Churches with different styles some can be Neo Pentecostals, Classical Pentecostal, Baptist or not a lot of speaking in Tongues.
bless you for telling the truth,we need more of the bible truth.
You know Dr M, 1John2: 27, " Holy spirit teaching us." He is the very Spirit
of truth. A simple prayer in faith to our Father, in Jesus name will do it. The holy Spirit within us will begin teaching us as we read and with time much more.
i would really like to know how cessationists could ever reconcile 1 Cor. 14 with their belief that prophecy is like 'producing scripture' - as James White suggests - and since scripture is complete, there would be no more prophecy. If that were true, we would probably have lost a lot of scripture, because the people in Corinth were urged to prophecy a lot by Paul. And, obviously they did, because Paul even put a limit to it. Philip had daughters who prophesied, but none of those prophecies ended up in the bible. Did God give scripture and then allowed it to simply disappear? I can't believe that. Also, in the Old Testament we read about many unnamed prophets, even prophet schools or the prophets visited by king Saul ('Is Saul among the prophets too?'). Their prophecies didn't make it to the bible either. The assumption that real prophecy is always at the same level as scripture is simply not true. There is obviously a category of prophecy that is not meant as scripture, that only has relevance in its context of time, place and audience and that can't be found in scripture. There's no need to declare it obsolete.
Good reply. There is another view that would never be canvassed for being too heretical. And that is that the Bible is false book compiled of the true word of God. I know this is difficult to comprehend at first. And for most, never to be understood. I think I know what the apostle Paul would think if he was to see what man has done today with the Holy Spirit inspired letters that he wrote to the churches, how they made it into a book and sell it at a price and calling it the Bible. I think he'd be aghast. I also think that God, knowing all things, made provision for this to take place so that in the last days revival of the church could take place - exactly what happened when the printing press and translation of the acts and the letters allowed lay people to comprehend the truth concerning their sonship through Christ. The Bible is the harlot, babylon's, book. But its contents belong to the sons of God. Difficult to grasp, yes.
@Jeremiah dolsin you have not understood what I said. The Word belongs to believers - the message - the truth. I stand on that.
Thus says the Lord is just like saying says the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit does speak. When we are familiar with the voice of God, we can say what He says and follow with, "says the spirit of God."
Not everyone is a theological genius, or a linguistic scholar etc. it’s not a prerequisite to our salvation. Error being addressed on both sides, yes of course. Sweeping condemnation and mocking of believers such as MacArthur has engaged in, it’s divisive, not good, not helpful at all in the edification of the body of Christ.
So calling out false teachers isn’t scripture..? I agree with a lot of Dr Brown and Dr Whites and Pastor McArthur .. but I myself put no faith in them.. just the Gospel.. which is black and white.. truth is truth..
@@jayrocky9067 now if I asked you as a person about a certain biblical matter, how you view it “in black and white” you would then have an opinion which needs to be checked against the truth of black and white scripture...right? At some point we will have to gain a reasonable understanding using basic logical literary methodology. Ie; biblical Central theme, immediate context, overall context, cultural context, meaning in plain text etc, ... yes?
I wish such an exchange could occur between Dr White and Dr David Wood regarding how to speak to Islam.
JR Rodriguez ruclips.net/video/aZ6K7K5MbWo/видео.html
Just recently they did a video together
I would love to see you debate John McArthur
Unfortunately, it seems that Pastor MacArthur thinks Dr. Brown is unworthy of his time.
Dr. Michael Brown has said he's up to debate John MacArthur and has even contacted him but to no avail. I don't think MacArthur does much debates as far as I know.
MacArthur doesnt debate, he only accuses God's elect, like Doctor Brown, of being heretics.
Dr. Mcarthur is incompetent and doesn't know what he's talking about
Macarthur prefers in house discussions, Brown affirms Todd White and Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, Copeland , Calls them brothers, cant blame MacArthur not to give this Charlatan hugger the time of day.
Brother James, like all "I go by the Bible" folks simply don't go by the Bible...we know the gifts of the Spirit because of the teaching of scripture...I speak in tongues because of the Bible, I prophesy, heal the sick, have raised ONE person from the dead because of the scriptural teaching on these issues....James denies the plain teaching of scripture...too bad for him
@Vine 101Culpable of what??? That's ignorant....Lots of people raised the dead in the Bible, Jesus raised maybe 4 or so...others maybe one...the apostles were commanded to do it, Elijah and Elisha did it...but no one emptied cemeteries...just did as the Lord led, in his power and in his name
This was very interesting....I really think that when we get out of identifying ourselves as Calvinist or Charamatic or Arminian etc. and just identify ourselves as Christians and read the Bible with out our Church culture we may come to a clearer understanding of the word. I listen to these interviews or debates and find that both sides having something valuable to offer. For example I agree that the gifts have not ceased, I don’t see anything in scripture that tells me that. Also (I know this wasn’t discussed in this interview) I don’t see where in scripture you can lose your salvation or that we don’t have free will. I probably mostly agree with Dr. Brown however, my reformed brothers I think (like myself) are just fed up with people barking like dogs and cocking like crows and mocking the scripture. I think I have more in common anymore with a sincere Baptist that doesn’t believe in the gifts then most Pentecostals. It is refreshing though to hear a civil discussion on these very important topics. God bless you both!!
I was converted by the lord with supernatural means. Convicted of my sin, I came to Jesus in private in prayer. It was relief for my burdens. But one night I asked him to please fill the void. Jesus showed me himself in full glory, only for a single moment. It was as if glory itself was in front of me then entered into me. It was gone in a blink of an eye and I didnt know what to think or do. Stayed on my knees for a full 5 minutes, unsure if I should move, mouth agape in awe.
Slowly I crawled to my bed and picked up my remote. 111, it was the christian channel. A channel I never been to before. Jesus was talking and he said "I will never leave you or forsake you". My heart filled with awe and tears. I watched the documentary and then entered into temptation later that night. Watched the very same messed up porn that led me to the lord in repentance in the first place!!! After I indulged, I cried myself to sleep that night, asking Jesus how could I do that when he just gave me his spirit.
I was awoken up by my mom, banging and shouting in joy saying God wants me to show you a bible scripture!!!! It was about sexual sin, how men fall into that when they are separated from God. I was filled with love from head to toe, God was saying I forgive you, just come to me. That event taught me that Jesus is very real, his spirit is active, and the word of God is his word and he works through his faithful too.
That event rooted me in the faith, never doubting christ existence ever since. At first I turned away from God, even though I knew Jesus was real now I indulged in video games and hid from my calling for a year. I really wanted to get away and seek the lord, but I didnt trust myself. I was a 3 pack a day smoker with no self control. Didnt trust that I could do it on my own.
This small pentecostal traveling music group rolled into town. They were based in georgia while I live in florida. They happened to need a bass player (me) and given my desires, I knew it would be the right place to seek the lord, away from temptation and computers. I barely read any scripture at all at that point, and was still new to Jesus. I left with them the same day I met them. Left everything behind, job family friends and took off.
They put a lot of emphasis on tongues and wanted me to have that "gift" as well. Saying I needed to seek the holy ghost (as if I didnt have it). They were king james only as well. I was put on the spot 5 different times for an hour with people praying over me in tongues. Nothing happened, ever. Their doctrine read into the word of God, I was taught look they spoke in tongues here so they must have spoken in tongues at this event in acts!!! I just believed them because they were far more experienced.
I started to believe I didnt actually have the holy ghost, and that warps the bible. For example paul the apostle said if you do not have the spirit of christ, you do not belong to christ. Jesus said you must be born again. Well when your entire doctrine is equating that to speaking in tongues, you can see how its a salvation issue.
It was a perfect storm because I would get so wired up seeking God in private over there, reading King James 1610 english. Fasting without telling people. And my mind didnt have an off switch. I would be up for 5 days straight fasting and worshiping God in private and start hallucinating.
Towards the end pastor showed a documentary of a testimony of someone who claimed the lord sent to hell in a vision and experienced the torments of the lake of fire. Well that caused me to go on a fast praying constantly that the lord use me like he used his servant job and give me a powerful testimony. As if sacrificing my body and soul means anything to the almighty. Only sacrifice that is worth a damn is christs sacrifice.
I got what I prayed for, I developed paranoid schizophrenia and was under constant torments for a year straight. Tactile audio and visual hallucinations. I believed I had died and was being judged by satan himself. Everyone around me was now a demon. The church didnt know what was going on and exiled me. My dad drove all the way to georgia to rescue me. It took an entire year to recover. One day it was gone overnight without medication. It took a few years after that to fully recover. I didnt know if I was still dead, if the devil was messing with me, if it would come back at all. During this time period I got on disability income and to this day I am living check to check in subsidized housing.
Needless to say I was destroyed by over-zealousness in a false doctrine. Charismatics beware, do not go around assuming speaking in tongues = holy ghost. They never directly said I didnt have the holy ghost, but there doctrine read into the bible that tongues always occurred with a holy ghost event.
Oh and I still never spoke in tongues to this day, but I have healed someone before. My mentor was complaining of his gout flaring up real bad dropping me off from church. (I still dont drive to this day). And I just grabbed his foot and fire came upon me starting praying in the spirit for healing. It was like pure instinct. Hes never had a symptom since, and now hes a pastor at his own church and tells that testimony to his flock. This occurred after the schizophrenia event. And I still have never spoke in tongues.
Maybe you went through all of that so you could heal your pastor's foot so that his testimony would bring people to the Lord.
@@Vae07 Who knows man. God is good, hes the heavenly father, im doing good now. And I believe in reformed theology or TULIP. John 6:37-40,44 yeah. I believe I have an unconditional election over here who else can say they dealt with what I did lol
@@shanemccausland958
Glad you doing good mate
@@Vae07 Amen me too. No meds and been symptom free since 2010.
Wow. Thank you for all that!! Cant wait to see you in heaven one day ♥️
Why does James White continue to hold that God's omniscience is tried to an eternal decree? Is God's *omnipotence* also tied to an eternal decree? Was God, at some point, not omnipotent? If God was not omnipotent before his decree, then how can his decree add to his power? I hold that God needed *nothing*, added *nothing* to himself by any decree. Not his knowledge nor his power depend on anything outside of himself.
38:35 "Where do you end up drawing the line?"
I am a Continuationist and believe that Prophecy is 100% accurate, 100% of the time.
I am not an elder, pastor, or Bishop, but if I was I would remove a false Prophet from our midst if they gave a false Prophecy.
As it stands at the moment, I will not fellowship at a Church that has a false Prophet in its midst.
Where I am less certain, is in regards to Repentance. I believe all sin is forgivable, save the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So a false Prophet can be restored, but I don't think I would ever trust them to Prophesy again.
that's anti biblical
I've always thought... Jesus said that many will come to Him on that day saying they did miracles, and prophesying, and casting out demons, all in His name, but He'll tell them to depart from Him. Obviously reading it, it shows that they either had a secret life, of it's because they were using the works of miracles as their "get-out-of-hell" free card, rather than relying what Christ has done. But never the less, the verse is in reference to the day of Judgement. If on the day of Judgement, people will say that they did miracles and casted out demons and prophesied in the name of Christ, does this then furthermore confirm that the gifts will indeed continue until Christ returns? Again, Jesus wasn't saying in the verse that those who do these things are automatically going to be departed from Him, but He was displaying that using these things as a means of saying that your saved on that day, rather than fully relying on what He's already done through the cross and empty tomb, is the equivalent of spitting in His face, basically, as again, they use miracles as a means for salvation, or they lived a secret life, but again I ask, nevertheless... Does it confirm that the gifts continue until Christ returns?
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.
27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn. In all the churches that preach Jesus. Good and the bad. and Jesus says He will figure it out. There are false and true teachers, preachers, evangelists, prophets, apostles in the church why is this so hard to understand?
That is about congregations not teachers and preachers
And no there are no apostles of Christ or prophets
You popped in there with a Hebrew word of the day, the name of God. You claim Yahweh, with no Scriptural proof. 1700 times ancient Hebrew manuscripts have it written with the full vowel points; Yud Hay Vav Hay with the vowel points; YeHoVaH. Not even one states: Yahweh. Yah is the poetic short form of YeHoVaH. Hebrew names that incorporate the name at the end, like Eliyahu, Nehemiyah etc. use the short form Yah. Others that incorporate the name at the beginning use the beginning of the name; Yeho like Yehoshua, Yehoshaphat, Yehoyada, Yehoram, Yehonadav, etc.
Why do Pentecostals teach that one must speak in tongues ? Paul clearly teaches that not all speak in tongues .
I have wrestled with this subject because ive watched many believers be basically pushed out of church because they didnt have the gift.
I also seen tongues being "taught" by elders who say just start speaking babytalk or say Coca-Cola over and pver and then presto it will happen. BLAH !!!
I do believe in the gifts BUT I also feel like its very rare these days to see a true movement.
The pentecostal charismatic body has turned the gifts into a circus . What we see today is not the Holy Spirit but fleshly men. They usually use tongues, the easiest to fake , and not as Paul taught them.
Another thing is people being slain in the spirit . The bible does not teach this common fraud thats in 99% of local pentecostal churches. Falling down shaking convulsing or laughing is not the spirit of God .
These things break my heart and made me walk away from the church. Now I cannot find a church body cause reformers are dry lacking the Holy Spirit . Yet i also see the opposite a crazy out of control unbiblical use of gifts allowed to playout .
I hunger for true holyness, unfortunately in my area all the churches are drying up . Preaching is non-existent, I believe we are seeing the great falling away a famine of His word.
There's plenty of denominations , one for just about anyones taste . But i cannot find a church of The Way ....but theres plenty of coffee and donuts.
Using scripture alone there is no way to refute truths about the Holy Spirit, spiritual gifts, apostles and prophets in the church today, etc.. Every argument against these things has to go beyond scripture and make assumptions based on post biblical church history. That is elevating post biblical historical writings as Holy Spirit inspired God breathed text. Cessationists who claim to believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God and ad extra-biblical material to defend their positions are hypocrites and need to be exposed as such. People like James White entertain objections and criticisms easily enough and fall right into the trap of the enemy. They are deceived and believe lies rather than the truth. Mt. 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
John McLaughlin Perfectly stated!
Every ministry that Jesus established; apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors (shepherds) and teachers were to function throughout the whole church age as Paul wrote in Ephesians 4. Yes there are apostles today in every inhabited country in the world at one time or another. It doesn't matter if they call themselves "apostle" because it's not a title, it's a function just as the other 4 ministries are. Many have used it as a title in error. Jesus determines who apostles, prophets etc. are, you don't choose that for yourself and there are many false ones pretending to be what they are not. Spiritual gifts are alive and well today also, just as alive and well as the Holy Spirit is. Wherever the Holy Spirit is welcome chances are that spiritual gifts are happening. It isn't always obvious if it's not a verbal gift.
Word of God (which is word from God) is self authenctaing, how will anyone test it, or should test it? Testing God's word with God's word does not make sense, can someone clarify this?
It means test what people say "in the name of God" with the Word of God.
@@deniseadkins2901 if it's the word of God, why should you test it. It's supposed to be self authenticating
@@supersmart671 I understand that but in today's world, prophecies can be wrong without the prophet being false. Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:20,21 says to test them because the prophecies may not be from God. Today prophecies are not on the same level as Scripture. Look at the last election. All of the prophets said that God told them that Trump was going to be re-elected. They all proved false. They weren't hearing from God.
@@deniseadkins2901 When Paul asks to test, what did he mean?
@@supersmart671 If someone prophecies let two or more test it. I guess to see if it goes against Scripture and if it comes true. The word from God would not contradict Scripture nor will it return void.
What about addressing speaking in tongues in church, something the apostle Paul forbade. Babbling crazily, falling down in absurdity etc. This is not church. Church is the coming together to build each other up in the knowledge of Christ; some have a word, a teaching, a song, a prayer, a prophecy and each in an orderly manner. For the Spirit brings order not disorder. We congregate to build up each other in love.
Most cessationist hang there entire argument on a contradiction between Scripture and the prophet prophecing as if the entire Bible wasn't written in the presence of scripture at the time except for maybe Moses. For example when Isaiah prophecied he was subject to Moses. When Paul wrote he was subject to Moses and Isaiah. In fact it seems normal that current prophecy would exist contemporaneously with Scripture not in opposition to it.
You had to admit the charismatic movement has a lot of unbiblical teachings. Like satans kingdom is in the second heaven and demons torture people in hell and all the weird trips to heaven and hell.
Grew up charismatic and was there till age 19. Returned to Christ and the church at age 26 and I'm 49 now. I've never heard of the teachings that you listed. Do you have particular denomination that your thinking of?
The Never Ending Never heard this teaching ever i grew up pentecostal
The lack of knowledge of the Scriptures is the main problem.
So a Cessationist is someone who says certain things ceased with the Apostles.
yes, the dead are not being raised.
Baptists peddle a personal relationship with God, but won't tolerate you actually having one. You better do what they say or else.
In terms of private revelation, the rule is it must be backed by other witnesses.
A pastor who claims private revelation without consulting other Christians is a false teacher.
I have a question: in the united states, you can make a live doing things like this?? because in my country it´s impossible!!!! people need to work hard if they find a job!!!!
They are both authors, pastors and have radio/podcast shows as well. Unsure the financial gain from any of these endeavors individually.
Charismatic Pentecostal?
Dead Seminary, test it against scripture...NT was in the ascribing of scripture...your "this saith the Lord" is not holy scripture or God breathed...where is the line, indeed.
There really is no “movement “ ...... you either believe the Bible or you don’t.....giftings and The Holy Spirit is normal Christianity........
Allen Furlan : THERS BEEN A MOVEMENT FOR DECADES . !!!! SEE : FALSE PREACHERS EXPOSED .!!!!! .AND OTHER VIDEOS .!!!!! . GROW UP .!!!!!!! . 💀☠️💀😎🤣😂🤣🧠.....
Agree with you.
James white is a bit arrogant.. but brown is always respectful... between james and brown, i see more the fruit of thr spirit in brown
I think, you really don't know what you believe. You believe a little of this and a little of that, and it's o.k. To fellowship with people that are of cultish beliefs. I don't care to listen to you again.
Brown and white HHhahaahha
Loooool
Dr brown seems wrong all sign seekers bring the hate.
Probably,,, wherever the AUTHENTIC is,,,there will come IMITATIONs,,, creating confusion
(Christianity itself for example)
I think james white is struggling to understand because he hasn't experienced God in a supernatural way.
Lol 😂🤣😂 that is such a biblically illiterate statement, The Scripture IS the word of The Spirit of God/Christ/Yahweh
If God saves you and regenerates your heart, how can that NOT be a supernatural experience? You’re a New Creature in Christ!
You could be right.