I hate to say it, but the Marvel Secret Lair is a perfect microcosm of the whole issue. Is it a cash grab that entices casuals and fans of other properties? Yeah, but it works. The same people I’ve been seeing bemoan the death of MTG at the hands of Universes Beyond are upset that they had issues buying the Marvel drop. Lots of big talk, but they still buy into it.
It hurts me to say as a player that started with Urzas Saga: They only go with the flow. Past sets was just magic chars dressed in tropes and funny costumes (80ies, cowboys, Furries, Detectives, Astronauts -okay, this was an un-set, but anyways) there is not that much left of a storyline anyways after they concluded the Bolas arc and the urza-phyrexia story. Now that Marvel is mainstream, wizards/Hasbro wants a piece of the cake as long as its hot. Just like modern video ganes, they dont care that magic always was a game driven by passionate nerds, because if you look at it, there are much more customers in the mainstream. Also, the whole classic fantasy-genre is quite unpopular nowadays ( there is only a lot of millenial humor dnd-videogame vibe left, instead of rich worlds with a deep lore)
I know some folks have joked in the past about the ridiculousness of different cards in standard played together, such as an Innistrad werewolf somehow piloting a Kaladesh copter. However, what made the game so appealing with each new set was seeing different planes often being self contained and offering some really rich and interesting worldbuilding. It wasn’t always perfect, but I really loved seeing the game come up with some really fun ideas, even most recently with Bloomburrow feeling like a bit of return to that old feeling. And the upcoming foundations set is such a great way to really celebrate the game with creatures and spells representing various planes they come from. Shame how we’re sacrificing a lot of this for loose theming (cowboys, detectives, racers) and other existing properties that feel so disconnected from what magic’s built for itself over the years.
I think the important difference between an innistrad werewolf in a kaladesh copter and Gandalf in the Batmobile is that these are MTG concepts developed within an MTG world, and there's the story of planeswalkers connecting all these wildly different worlds. Sure, a lot of silly things happen when you take a werewolf to kaladesh, but there was always still a story maintaining verisimilitude despite the silliness, which would also occasionally result in cool stuff like a Zendikar character luring an alien god to another world. With UB, you don't have this story connecting planes together, and planes aren't created with thought given to how they fit into the planar model. Plus you have multiple different planes that are each separately supposed to be "the real world"; LOTR, Marvel, Assassin's Creed, Doctor Who, Fallout and Warhammer are all MTG planes now, and all mutually incompatible versions of "the real world".
Two things have always glued everything in-universe together regardless of how ridiculous the situation may get at face value: -There's always the roleplaying element: we're all planeswalkers who choose which planes to associate ourselves with. -These planes are all original, living ecosystems crafted with passion and love, and the players could feel that. What irks me about UB is how it also threatens to take these things away from us. Forget about the roleplaying, nothing's gonna explain how you just summoned Spider-Man with red mana. Forget about fleshed-out worlds when resources are being poured into the more profitable UB projects. I fear that we will see a further decline in In-Universe storytelling and world-building efforts.
14:48 saddest part is they are succeeding more than ever... the Marvel secret lairs that were put on sale a few hours ago have over an hour long queues and some of them are already sold out. For me it's quite sad as similar to you I got into magic 4 years ago and fell in love with the gameplay mechanics, the fantasy art, the retro borders and now I feel I was just suckered into this inconsistent funko-pop style mash of multiverses and even after so little time they already want to replace me with a next generation of playerbase.
I feel you. I've heard from 2 stores near me that depending on what their distributor can get their hands on is what ends up in the store. So it has resulted in them having employees go to the Secret Lair webpage on release to purchase numerous copies. This definitely adds to it backing up, and also leads to issues of selling out early. It's not a consumer friendly practice, but it works because people have FOMO. And people are willing to pay egregious prices for a secret lair on the secondary market. I have only ever purchased the Sheldon secret lair. It was going to a good cause and had some genuinely good reprints with novel artwork. I feel like I could have hammered even harder on this nail.
It won't last though. Average player retention period is 18 months now. Just a couple of years ago it was 2 years. In a couple more years, it'll be 12 months. Very few people brought in by UB stay with MTG long term, because MTG's own IP has nothing going for it anymore, nothing to keep you interested longer than a month. WOTC are racing towards market saturation on these UB products, and then it's going to crash hard - the more they do, the smaller the remaining portion of people who weren't brought in by any of the previous UB products. By the time they get to UB: Batman, what audience for that wasn't captured by UB: Spiderman or UB: Fantastic Four or UB: X-men or UB: Avengers years earlier and having now already dropped the game?
The first time a card that truly is the BEST card for my deck is printed in a silly Universes Beyond set, I'm going to be so disappointed. Being essentially forced to play with a SpongeBob card that has Sandy Cheeks on it simply because it goes insane with Chatterfang is coming faster than I want it to. I never payed attention to Lucille because it was from a TV show that I hated, with art that felt completely incompatible with my Zombie deck. But once I pulled it's Universes Within card, I realised how much I loved it, & quickly threw it into my deck. Now it seems they're getting rid of Universes Within as well.
We can hold out hope the UB sets will give the development team the time and resources it needs to make genuinely good sets within universe. But to your point, once certain cards end up as auto inclusions (especially for the competitive formats like Modern/Standard), we end up in our current situation. A slippery slope that we've been told to ignore for far too long. It is actually an issue, and I can only hope WOTC sees the community push back.
Funny, I had the exact opposite experience with Universes Within. I love The Walking Dead (yes, it definitely fell off), but seeing the top down designs slapped onto generic Innistrad people sucked the soul out of those designs. Street Fighter was a big let down too. Ryu having the untap symbol as a reference to the Hadoken input and Chun-Li having multikicker felt like clever nods turned arbitrary on generic Dominaria guy and girl.
@@JayoticMTG But the nice thing about Universes Within was that it let everyone have the version that suited them best. As a Street Fighter fan, you get to appreciate the Street Fighter cards and the way their mechanics represent their themes; I as someone who has never played Street Fighter but who likes the cards' mechanics through an MTG lens get to appreciate the thematically-integrated "alternate art" cards.
@@yurisei6732 I totally agree that both treatments should be available, the change in policy was not good. Just throwing my opinion out there because I feel very different about this issue.
Great video. You DID represent the feelings of most of us. I've been here since Ice Age, and WotC spent the past 4 years telling me they don't give a shit about me because X men or Dr. Who fans are gonna bring them more money than me. Even though 90% of those are going to leave MTG once "their" UB cards stop being sold. Well, I finally listened WotC, you don't want me here so off I go. I prefer to walk away instead of clinging to the memory of what was just because it brought me joy in the past.
I've played off and on for decades, and the thing that got me back in most recently was LOTR. I loved playing the Limited environment, I loved going to Jumpstart events, and I loved getting all four commander decks to take with me and play with some RPG friends at a non magic gaming convention over the summer that we all finally emerged from the pandemic. But at various points, I also played competitively. I've traveled for Magic, I have friends who've been in the Pro Tour, I've done 12 hour road trips with a car full of friends to play card games at regional events multiple states away. I'm currently dating a woman who has kids. They're just about *the* perfect age to graduate from kiddie board games to a "real" game. Bloomburrow had the *perfect* art, I just think its a bit too complex mechanically for a 7 or 10 year olds' very first Magic set. I was SO excited about the Foundations projects. I know a lot of people don't care, but as someone who has worked in the games industry, a great introductary product is desperately needed for Magic. Its not enough to just sell Commander precons for IPs adults know and throw them to the wolves of the FLGS. Its such a great love letter, an eternal core set, a greatest hits and a perfect on ramp with dashes of every plane and type and strategy. There's packs for drafting, there's Jumpstarts, there's a beginner box with a LCG style set of specific cards made for first time players, with all the classic evergreen mechanics and straightforward cards. An eternal standard core, coming of the fantastic Bloomburrow set, which is literally the best selling Magic Standard set of all time! That was the first Standard set I had played in years, and standard was shaping up to be really interesting, and that maybe WOTC had finally realized they couldn't just make ONLY commander products forever. ... And then Final Fantasy reveal video went up, and I knew that I would buy Commander decks, I was excited I could play limited events for it like i did for LOTR, and excited to make a cube to play within itself forever! Just like I did for LOTR! But then they said it was Standard legal. The entire reat of the live stream went up and I had to start that, confused. The triumpant Return to Lorwyn was pushed back for the THIRD universe beyond, and it was one they couldn't even *bother to mention*. Ultimately we all know it doesn't matter, because whatever slop they spewed out could outsell anything they had ever made themselves. The Marvel Set wasn't even a Marvel set any more, it was 300+ cards of Spider-Man, and then the Fantastic Four would be next year. So X-Men *AND* Avengers are both likely their own full sets, probably at least one more. The next two quote unquote Magic sets are a Karlov Manor & Thunder Junction style pastiche with everyone just doing Wacky Races on motercycles, and the one after is a Space Set, which in my mind means a Star Wars or Star Trek Beyond Set next to it. Maybe Secret Lairs, maybe Transformer style inserts into normal packs. But I think the thing that realllly broke me was Sponge Bob, or even more specifically the absolutely unhinged uproarious applause from the clapping seals at the convention. Without getting too in the weeds, it truly felt like the Star Wars meme when Natalie Portman hears the Empire is being created: "This is how Magic dies, to thunderous applause." I cancelled about $300 worth of Foundations preorders. I'll learn and then teach the kiddos the Pokemon TCG instead.
Magic dont gonna look like Magic on 2025. Universe Beyond its nice but only on Secret Lairs or Ips with some relationship with magic. Like LOTR, that was great. Dungeon and Dragon its another great example of how to do it
My wife and I have pretty much disconnected from the newer sets. The stories haven't been as good. I.P's we don't care about, we skipped the past couple sets, besides drafting mh3, commander masters, and our lgs did a mystery booster 2 draft, and that's been it since Brothers War i believe. And I know, it's not Scourge, or Mirrodin anymore, but it just doesn't feel like mtg. The recent commander bans didn't help. Great video again.
I am a modern player and love kitchen table edh junk player with friends. And i reached a point where I completely stopped buying new cards and products because the direction they are going is ludicrous. Not only is modern broken because of mh3 and the ring. But also i dont want to add those cards to commander because it will give them reqson to keep printing it
I've been playing for a over decade, and I wouldn't have guessed you've only started 3 years ago. You always have a well-explained and relevant perspective in your videos
I really like universe beyond, but I personally think that a) universes beyond and similar secret lairs should be "something special", not the norm and b) that very playable UB cards should get a universe within print, with either only new art or also new name (similar to what they did with some secret lairs), to both allow for a artistically consistent deck and to allow reprints.
Here is the thing: UB will be commercially successful. That is not the issue. But as a player who loves OG magic, I feel abandoned and also hurt by how easily my love for the game is dismissed and ridiculed. Any nerd should know and mutually respect the passion we feel for our hobbies. I do not begrudge you your new found pop culture TCG, what makes me sad that for this new thing to exist the old MtG had to die. There is no option to engage with MtG while avoiding UB. Universes Beyond IS MtG now. And I wish that there was a niche where that wasn't so, but WotC has concluded that my demographic is not large enough to bother with. Mid term the OG Magic IP will be more or less phased out, not officially, mind you. The in universe MtG will be the place for exploring unlicensed tropes. Sherlok Holmes, Western, Formula 1, Star Wars... This is not the serious, thoughtful and interesting lore I fell in love with. There is no point to a Universe Within format or any such thing, because WotC has stopped making worhty lore a long time ago. It is now up to the fans to create their own lore and cards.
What kept people in the game was good story telling, valuable cards in set that retained or grew in value, good sets worth holding onto sealed, good card design and proper play testing, and about half the amount of products released per year to prevent product fatigue. Sure not all sets/blocks were home run and problematic cards made it through the cracks, but it was few and far between compared to sets starting with the original Eldraine set and the introduction of collector boosters and the first wave of secret lairs. UB sets were just the sign that the old fan base was being forced out while they turn the game into a revolving door of new players brought in until eventually they also become disenfranchised. Standard is no longer what standard is. The format should be renamed Foundation format. Modern is now a rotating format with direct to modern sets. Legacy and Vintage are being ripped apart by the direct to modern and mechanically unique cards from Secret Lairs/UB sets. All formats are suffering for the print for Commander and FIRE design goals.
100%, the best way to vote is with your wallet. I have refused to get any Universes Beyond product just because that is not what interests me. Unfortunately, that means that I am pretty embarrassed building any deck for any format anymore because I don't use the powerful cards available to me. I haven't even paid attention to modern since Lord of the Rings.
Just FYI at one point you mentioned that in order for WOTC to reprint TOR we would need to get a LOTR2 set, but Mark Rosewater has confirmed they could print an in-universe version at any time.
I'm still opposed to Universes Beyond. There's no property they could expand into that'd convince me to buy it. But the problem is, I don't have to buy it to have to deal with it. I just have to be playing against someone who did. We need two versions of every format, one UB and one non-UB.
Thank you so much for pointing out how the trend towards more UB is exacerbated by the state of powercreep and that WotC has every incentive to make UB sets more powerful! LotR was released around the same time as Wilds of Eldraine and has produced ten times the commander staples as well as cards that have come to dominate Modern. This will surely happen again with Spider-man and FF. If you're a vorthos like me, this just feels so bad. I feel severely punished for giving a damn about flavor. An enfranchised weirdo like myself who has opted out of UB will soon have no chance against someone who simply plays the best cards with no regards to what the card depicts. It's like I'm stuck with the Standard card pool while everyone else is using the Modern card pool. This just feels like betrayal -- like WotC is mocking me for being invested in MtG's world-building efforts and lecturing me about how the defining characteristic of MtG is its game mechanics all along. Except I wouldn't have signed on if Magic was just its mechanics. The magic from getting that first Scars of Mirrodin fat pack and immersing myself in meticulously crafted worlds has finally dried up.
I haven't kept up with the up incoming sets to be released and I've enjoyed most of the previous Universes Beyond but that is far too many, also is that Evolve in the background? How I miss that game lol.
Yes it is! I actually won a give away a long time ago. That particular book is signed by the development team of the game. I miss it, too! Such a novel concept. :)
This video is good the only thing that’s an issue, if any, is that when reflecting on the history of UB, we never really… kept that friction. This sounds incredibly toxic, and I don’t care because I’m moving to different card games now, but honestly not having that friction, saying “I won’t play with this, I’m not interacting with this, don’t bring these cards to my table” in a way felt like the best way to snub it. I don’t feel like universes beyond is a fence sitting issue, the longer we sat on the fence, said we’d play with the product, agreed that UB was a choice gave wizards the flag to just keep upping it, making more. Some people, big faces, who dislike UB clearly invested money into UB sets, I remember pleasant kenobi not being intrested, then warhammer dropped. Professor? Dr.Who Honestly it just takes this “I’ll play with you” mentality and “I won’t interact with it, but I’ll let it happen”. Although when Walking Dead came out people were incredibly toxic, and it did make us look bad at the time. But again, I just think this was an all or nothing issue. UB will keep getting worse unless people really make a stance. honestly even if that happens… what then? The game is already filled with UB cards- cat is already out of the bag for pretty much every player who plays commander. Plus soon to be standard with longer rotation cycles (that includes pioneer now too). Idk, long boring comment is long.
After watching this video I don't know how to feel as a viewer. I started to play this game only because of the Lord of the Rings. Then after playing the UB and slowly understanding the game , I then branch out into in universe MTG sets and falling in love with the world building. I enjoy UB and I feel like my response to this video would be similar to the ones you made in your "My Response to Commander's Quarters "Worst Magic News Ever?" video toward Mitch. Now I understand that opnions can change over time and I respect your new views on UB. However, I found this channel through your Erirette of the Charmed Apple video and the way you were able to break down the intricacy of every card in that deck was amazing. As a new player hearing you speak of how to get the fullest value of Erirette by switching the basic lands with snow to play [[On Thin Ice]] instead of [[Path to Exile]] and [[Swords to Plowshares]] turn a nob in my deck building brain. Ever since then I have placed my faith and understandment of MTG into your deck building skills. After a year of watching ,I greatly enjoy playing your creations and now possessing the skills to be a deck brewer. So, hearing that from now on you will not be deck brewing with UB cards concerns me. For example, your Ovika Enchantress deck contains a handful of great/powerful enchantment like [[Nerd Rage]], [[As Foretold]], and [[There And Back Again]], cards from UB. If you made this deck with your new philosophy on UB these cards wouldn't been added to the list. Sadly most of these UB cards don't have a direct counter part that in universe MTG like [[Nerd Rage]]. In my eyes by taking out these UB cards you aren't getting the full value of a truly optimize deck list. And to add more salt to the wound your cards choices for deck building with new cards that are release in the year are now going to be limted because you're losing half of the card pool. But, seeing your face at the end of the video, I'm sure you already contemplated with this fact. I pray that your and the community boycott of UB shows WOTC that they need to slow down on their preduction. because I agree half of the release set is to much. Sorry for the long post, I'm just a fan of your deck building and just fear how this action would effect it. I will not stop supporting you and I can't wait to see what you can cook moving foward.
Maybe this is an opportunity to springboard into doing more of your own theorycrafting? Try to learn how to recognise the core function of cards and you'll be able to know when a UB card can do a better or more interesting job than the MTG card you see in a deckbuild video - and it'll probably be more satisfying, too.
Just an idea: why don't do a MtG universe version of "Bikini Bottom" in an unexplored ocean in Lorwyn/Bloomborrow? They already have the cute theme covered there.
I'm sorry to say but... magic got beat. It's way more interestng to see how the doctor who cards were adapted to the magic ruleset than... whatever we call "lore" when it was not very interesting since way earlier than UB. Not to mention the heinous books they added to the hodgepodge of a story magic frankly always was. I can respect the astethics of magic, the flavor texts, some of the iconic characters, but if all of that pales in comparison to any other franchise they bring, I don't think secret lair spongebob is the problem.
The UB Sets are going to sell like warm bread, but pushing them into standard and pioneer legality is a mistake. Never ever will I stuff some Marvel character in my Orzhov Humans deck in order to stay competitive, if it comes to that I‘m out. 😢
As much as I love some of the universes beyond IPs that we're going to see, I agree that we should boycott Universes Beyond. I love Spider-Man but if they just make it regular Spider-Man in New York printed on magic cards, I don't want it. We've already seen that before and we want something new! They should know about the spider-verse. So what if there was a MAGIC plane with a Spider-Man and how would that shape that particular Magic plane?
your decision not to buy universes beyond going forward is not only the best way to get wotc to pay attention .. it is the only way. so far on many of the issues the community complains and makes a lot of noise but keeps buying sometimes at record numbers .. that will never get wotc to listen / change.
Marvel sold out in under 6hrs…really wish we just never did it to begin with, still love the game and will continue to play but if it doesn’t change direction soon that might change
I don't want to play against xmen in a standard tournament
Ex men?
what do you have against trans people playing MTG?
I'd prefer X-Men to SpongeBob...
I think they shoudl leave universes beyond for EDH, They have no bussness being competitive formats
Dude, all I play is edh anymore, and I don't like all these UB products.
The universe beyond boycott button
marvel sold out in hours 😭 magic is cooked
Lmao 13 likes, you got this fellas
@@pascalsimioli6777 24 at the time of making this comment, and the video is only at 111 likes, that's not that bad.
@@xLochNessie At the end of the day, nobody beyond the internet space really cares about purity of IP.
I hate to say it, but the Marvel Secret Lair is a perfect microcosm of the whole issue. Is it a cash grab that entices casuals and fans of other properties? Yeah, but it works.
The same people I’ve been seeing bemoan the death of MTG at the hands of Universes Beyond are upset that they had issues buying the Marvel drop. Lots of big talk, but they still buy into it.
WOTC: a solemn simulacrum of its former self... happy with a smothering tithe as we peer into the abyss
It hurts me to say as a player that started with Urzas Saga: They only go with the flow.
Past sets was just magic chars dressed in tropes and funny costumes (80ies, cowboys, Furries, Detectives, Astronauts -okay, this was an un-set, but anyways) there is not that much left of a storyline anyways after they concluded the Bolas arc and the urza-phyrexia story.
Now that Marvel is mainstream, wizards/Hasbro wants a piece of the cake as long as its hot.
Just like modern video ganes, they dont care that magic always was a game driven by passionate nerds, because if you look at it, there are much more customers in the mainstream.
Also, the whole classic fantasy-genre is quite unpopular nowadays ( there is only a lot of millenial humor dnd-videogame vibe left, instead of rich worlds with a deep lore)
I know some folks have joked in the past about the ridiculousness of different cards in standard played together, such as an Innistrad werewolf somehow piloting a Kaladesh copter. However, what made the game so appealing with each new set was seeing different planes often being self contained and offering some really rich and interesting worldbuilding. It wasn’t always perfect, but I really loved seeing the game come up with some really fun ideas, even most recently with Bloomburrow feeling like a bit of return to that old feeling. And the upcoming foundations set is such a great way to really celebrate the game with creatures and spells representing various planes they come from.
Shame how we’re sacrificing a lot of this for loose theming (cowboys, detectives, racers) and other existing properties that feel so disconnected from what magic’s built for itself over the years.
I think the important difference between an innistrad werewolf in a kaladesh copter and Gandalf in the Batmobile is that these are MTG concepts developed within an MTG world, and there's the story of planeswalkers connecting all these wildly different worlds. Sure, a lot of silly things happen when you take a werewolf to kaladesh, but there was always still a story maintaining verisimilitude despite the silliness, which would also occasionally result in cool stuff like a Zendikar character luring an alien god to another world.
With UB, you don't have this story connecting planes together, and planes aren't created with thought given to how they fit into the planar model. Plus you have multiple different planes that are each separately supposed to be "the real world"; LOTR, Marvel, Assassin's Creed, Doctor Who, Fallout and Warhammer are all MTG planes now, and all mutually incompatible versions of "the real world".
Two things have always glued everything in-universe together regardless of how ridiculous the situation may get at face value:
-There's always the roleplaying element: we're all planeswalkers who choose which planes to associate ourselves with.
-These planes are all original, living ecosystems crafted with passion and love, and the players could feel that.
What irks me about UB is how it also threatens to take these things away from us. Forget about the roleplaying, nothing's gonna explain how you just summoned Spider-Man with red mana. Forget about fleshed-out worlds when resources are being poured into the more profitable UB projects. I fear that we will see a further decline in In-Universe storytelling and world-building efforts.
14:48 saddest part is they are succeeding more than ever... the Marvel secret lairs that were put on sale a few hours ago have over an hour long queues and some of them are already sold out. For me it's quite sad as similar to you I got into magic 4 years ago and fell in love with the gameplay mechanics, the fantasy art, the retro borders and now I feel I was just suckered into this inconsistent funko-pop style mash of multiverses and even after so little time they already want to replace me with a next generation of playerbase.
I feel you. I've heard from 2 stores near me that depending on what their distributor can get their hands on is what ends up in the store. So it has resulted in them having employees go to the Secret Lair webpage on release to purchase numerous copies. This definitely adds to it backing up, and also leads to issues of selling out early. It's not a consumer friendly practice, but it works because people have FOMO. And people are willing to pay egregious prices for a secret lair on the secondary market.
I have only ever purchased the Sheldon secret lair. It was going to a good cause and had some genuinely good reprints with novel artwork. I feel like I could have hammered even harder on this nail.
It won't last though. Average player retention period is 18 months now. Just a couple of years ago it was 2 years. In a couple more years, it'll be 12 months. Very few people brought in by UB stay with MTG long term, because MTG's own IP has nothing going for it anymore, nothing to keep you interested longer than a month. WOTC are racing towards market saturation on these UB products, and then it's going to crash hard - the more they do, the smaller the remaining portion of people who weren't brought in by any of the previous UB products. By the time they get to UB: Batman, what audience for that wasn't captured by UB: Spiderman or UB: Fantastic Four or UB: X-men or UB: Avengers years earlier and having now already dropped the game?
The first time a card that truly is the BEST card for my deck is printed in a silly Universes Beyond set, I'm going to be so disappointed.
Being essentially forced to play with a SpongeBob card that has Sandy Cheeks on it simply because it goes insane with Chatterfang is coming faster than I want it to.
I never payed attention to Lucille because it was from a TV show that I hated, with art that felt completely incompatible with my Zombie deck. But once I pulled it's Universes Within card, I realised how much I loved it, & quickly threw it into my deck. Now it seems they're getting rid of Universes Within as well.
We can hold out hope the UB sets will give the development team the time and resources it needs to make genuinely good sets within universe. But to your point, once certain cards end up as auto inclusions (especially for the competitive formats like Modern/Standard), we end up in our current situation. A slippery slope that we've been told to ignore for far too long. It is actually an issue, and I can only hope WOTC sees the community push back.
Funny, I had the exact opposite experience with Universes Within. I love The Walking Dead (yes, it definitely fell off), but seeing the top down designs slapped onto generic Innistrad people sucked the soul out of those designs.
Street Fighter was a big let down too. Ryu having the untap symbol as a reference to the Hadoken input and Chun-Li having multikicker felt like clever nods turned arbitrary on generic Dominaria guy and girl.
@@JayoticMTG But the nice thing about Universes Within was that it let everyone have the version that suited them best. As a Street Fighter fan, you get to appreciate the Street Fighter cards and the way their mechanics represent their themes; I as someone who has never played Street Fighter but who likes the cards' mechanics through an MTG lens get to appreciate the thematically-integrated "alternate art" cards.
@@yurisei6732 I totally agree that both treatments should be available, the change in policy was not good. Just throwing my opinion out there because I feel very different about this issue.
Great video. You DID represent the feelings of most of us. I've been here since Ice Age, and WotC spent the past 4 years telling me they don't give a shit about me because X men or Dr. Who fans are gonna bring them more money than me. Even though 90% of those are going to leave MTG once "their" UB cards stop being sold. Well, I finally listened WotC, you don't want me here so off I go. I prefer to walk away instead of clinging to the memory of what was just because it brought me joy in the past.
I've played off and on for decades, and the thing that got me back in most recently was LOTR. I loved playing the Limited environment, I loved going to Jumpstart events, and I loved getting all four commander decks to take with me and play with some RPG friends at a non magic gaming convention over the summer that we all finally emerged from the pandemic.
But at various points, I also played competitively. I've traveled for Magic, I have friends who've been in the Pro Tour, I've done 12 hour road trips with a car full of friends to play card games at regional events multiple states away.
I'm currently dating a woman who has kids. They're just about *the* perfect age to graduate from kiddie board games to a "real" game. Bloomburrow had the *perfect* art, I just think its a bit too complex mechanically for a 7 or 10 year olds' very first Magic set. I was SO excited about the Foundations projects. I know a lot of people don't care, but as someone who has worked in the games industry, a great introductary product is desperately needed for Magic. Its not enough to just sell Commander precons for IPs adults know and throw them to the wolves of the FLGS. Its such a great love letter, an eternal core set, a greatest hits and a perfect on ramp with dashes of every plane and type and strategy. There's packs for drafting, there's Jumpstarts, there's a beginner box with a LCG style set of specific cards made for first time players, with all the classic evergreen mechanics and straightforward cards. An eternal standard core, coming of the fantastic Bloomburrow set, which is literally the best selling Magic Standard set of all time! That was the first Standard set I had played in years, and standard was shaping up to be really interesting, and that maybe WOTC had finally realized they couldn't just make ONLY commander products forever.
...
And then Final Fantasy reveal video went up, and I knew that I would buy Commander decks, I was excited I could play limited events for it like i did for LOTR, and excited to make a cube to play within itself forever! Just like I did for LOTR!
But then they said it was Standard legal. The entire reat of the live stream went up and I had to start that, confused. The triumpant Return to Lorwyn was pushed back for the THIRD universe beyond, and it was one they couldn't even *bother to mention*. Ultimately we all know it doesn't matter, because whatever slop they spewed out could outsell anything they had ever made themselves. The Marvel Set wasn't even a Marvel set any more, it was 300+ cards of Spider-Man, and then the Fantastic Four would be next year. So X-Men *AND* Avengers are both likely their own full sets, probably at least one more. The next two quote unquote Magic sets are a Karlov Manor & Thunder Junction style pastiche with everyone just doing Wacky Races on motercycles, and the one after is a Space Set, which in my mind means a Star Wars or Star Trek Beyond Set next to it. Maybe Secret Lairs, maybe Transformer style inserts into normal packs.
But I think the thing that realllly broke me was Sponge Bob, or even more specifically the absolutely unhinged uproarious applause from the clapping seals at the convention. Without getting too in the weeds, it truly felt like the Star Wars meme when Natalie Portman hears the Empire is being created: "This is how Magic dies, to thunderous applause."
I cancelled about $300 worth of Foundations preorders. I'll learn and then teach the kiddos the Pokemon TCG instead.
Bloomburrow is amazing, colorful, and the flavor is rich and deep. I'm buying singles from here on out. No more sealed product.
Imma be honest, they haven’t really been passionate about lore and the like for a while.
Magic dont gonna look like Magic on 2025. Universe Beyond its nice but only on Secret Lairs or Ips with some relationship with magic. Like LOTR, that was great. Dungeon and Dragon its another great example of how to do it
I was not brought in by UB, but my Magic’s original aesthetics. I guess it’s not for me anymore.
My wife and I have pretty much disconnected from the newer sets.
The stories haven't been as good. I.P's we don't care about, we skipped the past couple sets, besides drafting mh3, commander masters, and our lgs did a mystery booster 2 draft, and that's been it since Brothers War i believe.
And I know, it's not Scourge, or Mirrodin anymore, but it just doesn't feel like mtg. The recent commander bans didn't help.
Great video again.
Thank you for adding your perspective. :) I hope you and your wife continue to have some good games.
I am a modern player and love kitchen table edh junk player with friends.
And i reached a point where I completely stopped buying new cards and products because the direction they are going is ludicrous.
Not only is modern broken because of mh3 and the ring. But also i dont want to add those cards to commander because it will give them reqson to keep printing it
I've been playing for a over decade, and I wouldn't have guessed you've only started 3 years ago. You always have a well-explained and relevant perspective in your videos
I really like universe beyond, but I personally think that a) universes beyond and similar secret lairs should be "something special", not the norm and b) that very playable UB cards should get a universe within print, with either only new art or also new name (similar to what they did with some secret lairs), to both allow for a artistically consistent deck and to allow reprints.
I'm so glad I sold my collection when the latest modern horizons set came out. I saw the writing on the wall.
"We don't want players to keep the game alive, we want players to buy what we're making"
Don't ask questions just buy product and get excited for next product
Here is the thing: UB will be commercially successful. That is not the issue. But as a player who loves OG magic, I feel abandoned and also hurt by how easily my love for the game is dismissed and ridiculed. Any nerd should know and mutually respect the passion we feel for our hobbies. I do not begrudge you your new found pop culture TCG, what makes me sad that for this new thing to exist the old MtG had to die. There is no option to engage with MtG while avoiding UB. Universes Beyond IS MtG now. And I wish that there was a niche where that wasn't so, but WotC has concluded that my demographic is not large enough to bother with. Mid term the OG Magic IP will be more or less phased out, not officially, mind you. The in universe MtG will be the place for exploring unlicensed tropes. Sherlok Holmes, Western, Formula 1, Star Wars... This is not the serious, thoughtful and interesting lore I fell in love with. There is no point to a Universe Within format or any such thing, because WotC has stopped making worhty lore a long time ago. It is now up to the fans to create their own lore and cards.
What kept people in the game was good story telling, valuable cards in set that retained or grew in value, good sets worth holding onto sealed, good card design and proper play testing, and about half the amount of products released per year to prevent product fatigue. Sure not all sets/blocks were home run and problematic cards made it through the cracks, but it was few and far between compared to sets starting with the original Eldraine set and the introduction of collector boosters and the first wave of secret lairs. UB sets were just the sign that the old fan base was being forced out while they turn the game into a revolving door of new players brought in until eventually they also become disenfranchised. Standard is no longer what standard is. The format should be renamed Foundation format. Modern is now a rotating format with direct to modern sets. Legacy and Vintage are being ripped apart by the direct to modern and mechanically unique cards from Secret Lairs/UB sets. All formats are suffering for the print for Commander and FIRE design goals.
100%, the best way to vote is with your wallet. I have refused to get any Universes Beyond product just because that is not what interests me. Unfortunately, that means that I am pretty embarrassed building any deck for any format anymore because I don't use the powerful cards available to me. I haven't even paid attention to modern since Lord of the Rings.
Just FYI at one point you mentioned that in order for WOTC to reprint TOR we would need to get a LOTR2 set, but Mark Rosewater has confirmed they could print an in-universe version at any time.
OOOF. I actually think this makes it worse in many ways. But this is really good information to know. Thank you for commenting!
I'm still opposed to Universes Beyond. There's no property they could expand into that'd convince me to buy it. But the problem is, I don't have to buy it to have to deal with it. I just have to be playing against someone who did. We need two versions of every format, one UB and one non-UB.
Thank you so much for pointing out how the trend towards more UB is exacerbated by the state of powercreep and that WotC has every incentive to make UB sets more powerful!
LotR was released around the same time as Wilds of Eldraine and has produced ten times the commander staples as well as cards that have come to dominate Modern. This will surely happen again with Spider-man and FF.
If you're a vorthos like me, this just feels so bad. I feel severely punished for giving a damn about flavor. An enfranchised weirdo like myself who has opted out of UB will soon have no chance against someone who simply plays the best cards with no regards to what the card depicts. It's like I'm stuck with the Standard card pool while everyone else is using the Modern card pool. This just feels like betrayal -- like WotC is mocking me for being invested in MtG's world-building efforts and lecturing me about how the defining characteristic of MtG is its game mechanics all along.
Except I wouldn't have signed on if Magic was just its mechanics. The magic from getting that first Scars of Mirrodin fat pack and immersing myself in meticulously crafted worlds has finally dried up.
I haven't kept up with the up incoming sets to be released and I've enjoyed most of the previous Universes Beyond but that is far too many, also is that Evolve in the background? How I miss that game lol.
Yes it is! I actually won a give away a long time ago. That particular book is signed by the development team of the game. I miss it, too! Such a novel concept. :)
@@Tempest-Official That's fucking awesome
Take us back when they had 3 set block for one world with a good story. Not just overly power creep the superhero set.
100% agree with everything here.
This video is good the only thing that’s an issue, if any, is that when reflecting on the history of UB, we never really… kept that friction.
This sounds incredibly toxic, and I don’t care because I’m moving to different card games now, but honestly not having that friction, saying “I won’t play with this, I’m not interacting with this, don’t bring these cards to my table” in a way felt like the best way to snub it.
I don’t feel like universes beyond is a fence sitting issue, the longer we sat on the fence, said we’d play with the product, agreed that UB was a choice gave wizards the flag to just keep upping it, making more.
Some people, big faces, who dislike UB clearly invested money into UB sets, I remember pleasant kenobi not being intrested, then warhammer dropped.
Professor? Dr.Who
Honestly it just takes this “I’ll play with you” mentality and “I won’t interact with it, but I’ll let it happen”.
Although when Walking Dead came out people were incredibly toxic, and it did make us look bad at the time. But again, I just think this was an all or nothing issue. UB will keep getting worse unless people really make a stance.
honestly even if that happens… what then? The game is already filled with UB cards- cat is already out of the bag for pretty much every player who plays commander. Plus soon to be standard with longer rotation cycles (that includes pioneer now too).
Idk, long boring comment is long.
After watching this video I don't know how to feel as a viewer. I started to play this game only because of the Lord of the Rings. Then after playing the UB and slowly understanding the game , I then branch out into in universe MTG sets and falling in love with the world building. I enjoy UB and I feel like my response to this video would be similar to the ones you made in your "My Response to Commander's Quarters "Worst Magic News Ever?" video toward Mitch. Now I understand that opnions can change over time and I respect your new views on UB. However, I found this channel through your Erirette of the Charmed Apple video and the way you were able to break down the intricacy of every card in that deck was amazing. As a new player hearing you speak of how to get the fullest value of Erirette by switching the basic lands with snow to play [[On Thin Ice]] instead of [[Path to Exile]] and [[Swords to Plowshares]] turn a nob in my deck building brain. Ever since then I have placed my faith and understandment of MTG into your deck building skills. After a year of watching ,I greatly enjoy playing your creations and now possessing the skills to be a deck brewer. So, hearing that from now on you will not be deck brewing with UB cards concerns me. For example, your Ovika Enchantress deck contains a handful of great/powerful enchantment like [[Nerd Rage]], [[As Foretold]], and [[There And Back Again]], cards from UB. If you made this deck with your new philosophy on UB these cards wouldn't been added to the list. Sadly most of these UB cards don't have a direct counter part that in universe MTG like [[Nerd Rage]]. In my eyes by taking out these UB cards you aren't getting the full value of a truly optimize deck list. And to add more salt to the wound your cards choices for deck building with new cards that are release in the year are now going to be limted because you're losing half of the card pool. But, seeing your face at the end of the video, I'm sure you already contemplated with this fact. I pray that your and the community boycott of UB shows WOTC that they need to slow down on their preduction. because I agree half of the release set is to much. Sorry for the long post, I'm just a fan of your deck building and just fear how this action would effect it. I will not stop supporting you and I can't wait to see what you can cook moving foward.
Maybe this is an opportunity to springboard into doing more of your own theorycrafting? Try to learn how to recognise the core function of cards and you'll be able to know when a UB card can do a better or more interesting job than the MTG card you see in a deckbuild video - and it'll probably be more satisfying, too.
Just an idea: why don't do a MtG universe version of "Bikini Bottom" in an unexplored ocean in Lorwyn/Bloomborrow? They already have the cute theme covered there.
I kinda have the feeling they make now all their own Magic IP Stuff Cards "silly and funny and colourfull
Putting effort into MTG sets would make it more obvious how little effort goes into UB sets.
I'm sorry to say but... magic got beat. It's way more interestng to see how the doctor who cards were adapted to the magic ruleset than... whatever we call "lore" when it was not very interesting since way earlier than UB. Not to mention the heinous books they added to the hodgepodge of a story magic frankly always was.
I can respect the astethics of magic, the flavor texts, some of the iconic characters, but if all of that pales in comparison to any other franchise they bring, I don't think secret lair spongebob is the problem.
The UB Sets are going to sell like warm bread, but pushing them into standard and pioneer legality is a mistake. Never ever will I stuff some Marvel character in my Orzhov Humans deck in order to stay competitive, if it comes to that I‘m out. 😢
Bruh i recently uninstall mtga before watching this. Damn my instinct is right after all. Btw great video.
Welcome to the Commander Master Race folks. This is what the game is now these days sadly. So enjoy the bed you people made.
As much as I love some of the universes beyond IPs that we're going to see, I agree that we should boycott Universes Beyond. I love Spider-Man but if they just make it regular Spider-Man in New York printed on magic cards, I don't want it. We've already seen that before and we want something new! They should know about the spider-verse. So what if there was a MAGIC plane with a Spider-Man and how would that shape that particular Magic plane?
your decision not to buy universes beyond going forward is not only the best way to get wotc to pay attention .. it is the only way. so far on many of the issues the community complains and makes a lot of noise but keeps buying sometimes at record numbers .. that will never get wotc to listen / change.
Please use proxy for your commander. Hasbro will charge you 1000$ for the reprint of One ring. Mtg Arena for standard.
Marvel sold out in under 6hrs…really wish we just never did it to begin with, still love the game and will continue to play but if it doesn’t change direction soon that might change
Sell. Sell now.
I play magic for the gameplay not the lore. Go read a book if you want a story. I’m here for a fun game with friends
Go watch a movie if you want Spiderman.
40k was the only good thing