HOW TO setup and tune an Amplifier | Ameritron AL-811H with an IC-7300
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2021
- I just got an Ameritron AL-811H Amp! QRO or High Power has always been interesting (well duh!) and now I get a TOe into the water with it! This is how I have mine hooked up to my Icom IC-7300 and how I tune it for MAXIMUM SMOKE. It wasn't as scary as I thought it would be once I got my head wrapped around it. What do you think?
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The way I learned was you adjust the load and plate in receive for the most noise, then fine adjust during transmit, peaking the grid and then find the dip in the plate current.
Yeah, I think I did it backwards... Have you seen the manual? Ugh!
@@temporarilyoffline The manual says to go for max output, it doesn't even mention plate current as a guide. Yes, ugh!
Ron adjusting load and plate controls will do absolutely NOTHING for receive noise as the amplifier circuits are bypassed when the relays in the amp are at rest. You are going straight thru the amp and cranking on the plate and load controls is fruitless.
That works when you're tuning for swr with a manual tuner (or a screwdriver antenna)... Not for tuning an amplifier...
@@aakoksal Yeah, I was flash backing to my tube transceivers when I wrote that...sorry about that.
"I'm here for you". Truer words were never spoken. Your videos, and you are all over HamTube, are very useful. Especially, the antenna comparison. You seem like a good human and father. Keep up the good work. It is appreciated.
You also have a quick wit and fill the room with humour!
Aww geez☺️thanks!
Great video! A couple of things I've been told by hams far more experienced than me are to 1) Set your plate/load at your max permissible drive power (probably around 60-65w), then back the transceiver drive power down to the desired amplifier output. 2) Adjust your load clockwise beyond the power output peak until you just begin to see a dip in power output/grid current. That slight increased load & subsequent dip will prevent splatter on SSB from voice peaks and keep your signal more in check. 73!
Some of that makes sense to me. Just got this thing and need to learn some more.
My Elmer Jerry W3YVZ (SK) always recommended wearing archival (cloth) gloves to install tubes manually. This prevents fingerprints from being transferred to the glass envelopes. Fingerprint oil and grease can cause “hotspots” on the glass which will eventually degrade tube performance and hasten failure.
Good tip, I tried to not touch the glass.
@@temporarilyoffline Honestly, it's a bit of an old wives tale. Halogen lamps? Yes. But vacuum tubes don't get NEARLY as hot, a bit of skin oil isn't going to bother them in the least. I've got 3-500Z tubes that have survived decades of RTTY contests with my greasy palmprints all over them!! 😁
That brings back memories from when I first got licensed and operated my FT-101-E.
I had to do adjustments before transmitting to get full power out.
Yeah, always something to fiddle with to be a little bit better.
My papa had that one man them rario had hell of a audio on them .... Love them radio Numero uno
I bought my 101e used and it came with a brand new spare pair of 6JS6’s. I never did need them. The originals were as good as the day they came to me when I sold the set on. I only changed the 12BY7 as it’s emission had gone low (old age comes to tubes in the end hi). I did over a decade of my HF apprenticeship with that mostly using CW. Our club recently got a 101ZD left to it and I enjoyed the trip down memory lane again hi. 73 de G0ORY
That's awesome. I love stories like this
Best "amp tune-up video" I've seen. Would have helped me with my AL-80B, which I sold because I just couldn't get used to "Tuning."
There is always another one out there with your name on it.
I have the Acom 1000 and I highly recommend it, has a tuning indicator and it tells you what position to have the load and plate it really is quite simple + there's no need to keep turning down the power on the radio every time I want to re-tune the amp because it's got an attenuator.
I use an EFHW 49:1 Antenna which means I don't need to mess with tuning a tuner and the amp, this saves me a lot of money by not needing an expensive tuner.
Yeah, I wanted tube pain... so here I am, with tube pain ;-)
@@temporarilyoffline ah I'm sure it's fine once used to it, I wanted an Ameritron Amp but found it hard to get one so got the Acom instead and it's good for newbies to amps like me with lots of protection I don't think I could kill it too easy! :-)
I really love the look of the Ameritron amps!
great amp. I have fixed many of them. easy to get parts. yes tune up low power first . out of tune on high power causes a arc to happen in the tune and load caps and will burn the plates an also can damage the tubes. you will find tunning that the grid current will dip at the tune point. also the plate current will dip as well. that is your tune point. some times you may need to fine tune on antenna. always tune into dummy load first. give time for load and tubes to cool .I have 7300 you can use ALC line and adjust on amp to set radio not to over drive amp. when digital modes only run around 25% max power for life of the tubes. you can put in 572/B tubes . longer tube life. watch out for China tubes. some not so good. RF parts has the good ones and Penta labs tubes are good also. all I use. I have the AL 572 amp my self. that 1300 watt version. I run 800 watt or less . Russia 572/B tubes from RF parts. lasting years ! even take portable with gen set. no problem with DX commander antenna. he tested 1500 watts and just fine. use volt meter to check HV caps on board before touching . they screwed to the board. around 450V each . after I check ,I put a jumper to ground from HV output on board. also if coax connector gets loose in amp replace them.! common on that model. that AUX is 10/12 meters if cut green wire on input. buy tubes as matched set ! 3 or 4 . 73's
Thanks for watching and thanks for the info!
HLTW
TeamReplay for the win!
QRO with TO, I dig it.
Dig it
Awesome video. Thanks heaps
Glad you liked it!
Great video,I'm about to hook-up my AL-811 to my 7300,I wasn't sure about the keying lead and where to plug it in,but you've shown me that,thanks!
I couldn't help noticing though that your rig is showing quite a high VSWR into the amp,should the VSWR not be a lot lower?
Yes, you should have a good match between radio and amp... and then between amp and antenna. I've even tuned the antenna and then used the radio's internal tuner to the front end of the amp. It's very fiddly.
Thanks
No problem, Thanks for watching!
Adjust the plate first 10 watts then the load for max output them go to 20 watts then 40 watts then increase the load a little once set i run 572 b s make sure it has a seperator diode in the switching relay line or you can damage the 7300 .i do the opp with the collins 30l 1 dip the plate raise the grid loading control, i always tune for max output then advance the loading a we bit at different power levels never seems to fail me with the ameritron.
The Ameritron is a great amp! 40m is a little weird, but that could just be my setup. It is really efficient on 20m here.
I've read about hams "dipping the plate" and adding load as the last thing they do. I have always just tuned for the maximum RF output at the power level I'm going to use. (No, not max output) That has always worked well for my transmitters. I do the same with my 811H, but you have to really watch out for how much drive power you're using. Don't over drive it.
I've been told the way the tubes are wired that any extra drive power just goes past them. If so, that's a nice safety feature.
does the send port on most xcvrs close the ground connection on the amp relay? the amp relay + is always connected and the relay rca jack just needs a short to close the relay ground? do "most" modern xcvr's operate the send jack this way?
I don't know, I would imagine you could check it out with a multi meter. I'll take a look.
Thinking about pulling the trigger on this amp. You may have said it but how do you control the power on the amp? My loop antenna is only rated for 500 watts. Probably won't go much over 400 watts. Is the amp wattage based on the radio output wattage? Thanks
Yes, power out is a factor of power input. It's different per bands and you'd do well to have a power and SWR meter on the far side of the amp.
Great video! Do you ever run AM mode? De W2CSI
I listen, but haven't operated yet. I love the way it sounds and the way it looks on the waterfall
Can you do a tuning up with the Ameritron 80B
I know that Chuck has an 80B - I've asked him to make a video about it on his channel: ruclips.net/user/KK6USYHamRadioAdventures
I use to use straight carrier to tune but made a bug and doing a 50% like 30wpm would be better for tuning the amp. I just refreshed my valves in my 811H looking to upgrade to a 922 or sb1000 to get closer to the 1.5kw. I know of a few Alpha77sx models in Georgia if any one is looking 😉😉 just gone over by the Alpha Man Dick,
I need to adjust my CW settings, CW with the current setup has the relay clicking in and out with each key and that's hard on the relay.
noticed you have radio at 25% how much higher can you go .I tried 53% and appear to get almost 800 watts Would I be pushing it too far that high percentage
also noticed plate current swings too 600 ma and grid current to 10 ma
Its a linear amp, so the more power you put in, the more you get out. Next up comes the cooling capacity of the tubes/chassis as your limiting factor. I was running at 100% duty cycle, so the tubes were doing all they could do. The amp is rated at 800w SSB, but its common practice to "don't push it"
Once the amp is tuned for a particular band, when you transmit on different channels on that band, do you have to re-tune the amp for those channels? Or you tune once for the band and talk on any channel you want?
If you stay within a few KCs, you should be fine, if you are on 80m for example, the band is so wide that you might have 3 or 4 points where you need to re-tune. When you changes bands, you'll need to completely re-tune.
@@temporarilyoffline I see, thank you!
The TX delay has nothing to do with relay chatter. It is the time delay from when the PTT line goes low to when the radio actually starts transmitting.
Absolutely! Thanks
You and Me both brother!
Right!
How does one know if this is the correct tune up procedure when you agree with the comments saying it isnt? Why is the video still up if it may be wrong?
This is one of the worst parts of ham radio, nobody can agree on anything, even when they do agree they still argue. The procedure outlined in this video is how I tune my amp, it has been verified by trusted Elmers as working and it has been ruthlessly debated on QRZ.com... Even to the point where somebody on QRZ posted a different video telling me I was wrong and this guy was right... the guy in question tuned the same way I did. I don't know if this is the best way or not the best way, nobody does and even if they did, there will be an even better way tomorrow. Check out W6LG's video on how wonderful the instruction manual is for this amp.
I agree because its pointless to argue in a comment on a video, especially when I say in the video that I'm new to amps and the commenter does not provide anything of value other than argument.
I will continue to improve my amp tuning technique, and if I learn anything new I'll post a follow-up video. So far the only thing I'm aware of is that it needs to be done "faster", but you have to start somewhere -- and that is what this channel is all about - removing the gatekeeping and getting people started.
Thanks for watching!
@@temporarilyoffline amps are a touchy topic since it can smoke your wallet and your rig in no time. Ham radio is like asking for directions at a tavern.
Your plate needle seems not to move at all. It's that right? Both my needles move quit a bit when I key up.
Interesting. I don't know that answer and I don't have the amp anymore. Aks over on the discord server (link in description) there are a few smart people that run amps there.
Hi sir you need to install a control relay on the amp relay circuit. you need a small pilot relay. Look in the IC-7300 manual, it has a diagram of how to do that. Otherwise you need to buy an Ameritron amp relay box. What you are doing will work fine for a while but will eventually beat up the 1 amp transistor in the IC-7300 and kill it. Additionally the amp keying circuit will protect the radio in the event that the amp goes kerbonkers and back feeds high voltage through the keying circuit and kills the whole radio. I am redoing mine as I did it as the book said with a small relay. I am in the process of doing mine with a DC to DC SSR 3-32 in with flywheel diode and 2-240 DC out. There are videos on line. I am going to video mine when I get the part in from Ebay.
Thanks for the tip, subbed your channel and looking forward to the video.
@@temporarilyoffline Thanks I'm not near so professional as you. I remember how much fun it was to get the amp and how much it helps when the band is not doing well. A lot of days I leave it out and operate 90 watts and a wire. When that relay gets here I will be videoing the build.
@@temporarilyoffline 2 years late to the conversation but according to a interfacing tutorial by DJ0IP, all you have to do is adjust the TX Delay in the menu of the 7300. I plan on getting an Ameritron tube amp soon and will try that method. Also, is the cable that goes from the radio to the amp relay just a standard RCA cable? Not sure if you'll read this but thanks for the video. -KD0VUY
@@dirkderemojr.3316 thanks for watching, yes standard RCA cable and yes, adjust the TX Delay on the radio.
@@temporarilyoffline So if I adjust the TX Delay on my IC7300, I won't need that Ameritron amp relay box? What is the point of an Ameritron amp relay box? I'm trying to do this but I'm very afraid of frying my IC7300.
Is it ok to have the radio so close to the amp?
I haven't seen any ill effects so far, if I do, I'll find a solution and post it. I think a lot of my lack of RFI issues come from my antenna being pretty far away.
Can you show how to tune the ALC circuit on the AL-811. as well the use of.
I can find no reference to this topic other than in the tuneup instructions, which describe the " low loss slug and tuned coils ", as C 27 & C 28, which are depicted in the manual.
I understand where the exciter"s out put is NOT in excess of 70 Watts to the Amplifier, the ALC circuit of the Amplifier may be used in leiu of ALC from the exciter, hence no connecting harness from exciter to amp.
Am I on the right track here, the manual is written in American English and seemingly difficult to comprehend ?
The manual is really hard to read, You and I aren't the only ones that feel that. I'll take a look into it and if I figure it out, I'll put out a video on it.
tune the amp with no alc line connected...say you did that with 75w max drive...then connect alc and set alc control to the point where power just drops down...that is how I would set the alc (just to add some safety for the amp)...then set drive of the rig a tiny bit lower and have fun 😂
Ditch the 811,s put 572b tunes in it, much tougher very forgiving during tuning. No extra power just a better tube!🤔🙂
Agreed. And besides "Svetlana" sounds so much more ham sexy!
That's the first thing I said to myself when I saw the 811 boxes.
Hi there, you never said, unless i missed it, did you tune up on FM or CW, not that it matters much, have you any prolems triggering the 811H from the PTT socket of the 7300, some people say it ok others say you shouldn't Fred g4vvq.
FM,AM,RTTY,CW, FT8 whatever puts out modulation works. I didn't have a problem with the PTT socket, I did put TX delay into the radio, though.
@@temporarilyoffline Cheers...
Where do you connect the ALC out to the 7300?
the 7300 has an ALC connector, but make sure you get a buffer box so that you don't get voltages mixed up. Ameritron makes one, or you can find them on ebay. I did not setup ALC with this amp/radio combo, so you've now reached the end of my knowledge.
How many watts were you getting after a full tune ? 73 W0DN
This is an 800w amp, so on SSB, I'd expect rare peaks at 800w and normal operation around 600w (the nature of voice). On digital modes, I run it back at ~400w because I don't like the amount of heat it creates. In the future I'll be doing something about the heat. I think the cooling is very inefficient.
I was 👍 100🎉
Loving the electricity!
You should never change bands with the plate voltage on. Good way to arc the band switch.
Good tip
Plate voltage is always on when the amplifier is on. No matter the HV switch.
I like old tube gear a lot. But quite honestly, the 'best' way to tune up an amp is to get a solid-state amp and just plug it in.
Nice! I like your thinking!
Hi, Could you please tell me why with this exact equipment, with CW instead of your mode RTTY, we are getting a high SWR on the dummy load? We are not using an antenna, just the same dummy load and radio AND amplifier as yourself. We are getting great power boosting 65 watts to 850+ and plate and load are maxed to the right parameters, but SWR needle lifts up all the way to the left on the MFJ. Please see my next comment for reference.
I don't see the second comment, but this is what comes to mind: the radio needs to be tuned to match that side of the system (radio amp) and also, them amp side needs to be matched for each mode. I'm not sure if matching the amp output to 50Ohms for different modes was a different way of saying the different parts of the band, since those are usually specific segments of the band. Have you tried changing different positions on the plate/load dials to go along with different modes?
@@temporarilyoffline Oh yes. We have adjusted load, plate, etc. The reason you didn't see my other comment is because it had a link. You have your settings blocking comments with links. So, Could you please find it this way. Cars is listed as one of my recommended channels. You will see my brother's most recent short video. The title is Back to the Future: Amplifier Scene - Amateur Radio Style
It will show all of the equipment and demonstrate the hi SWR. Thanks for any help.
@@hedrickwetshaves1997 I watched. The only I can say is my notes show 3.8 load and 8 plate and it looks like you are higher on load in the vid.
@@temporarilyoffline Well, super hi SWR on the 40m to 10m antenna too, now that we hooked that up as well. It's a mag mount. It's doing this even without the Amp. I also am having trouble with hi swr on the mag antenna even with my little 5 watt Yaesu. Hmmm. I do need to try this antenna actually on the car as intended. So far we have been trying to tune the antenna inside the house during the cold weather. Back to the dummy load. Everything is grounded properly with a good common ground. Not sure why we keep getting hi SWR with two radios, with and w/o Amp. With and w/o dummy load. Even the 7300 has a built in SWR and tuner. Still super hi SWR, no matter what the combination. Thank you so much for the reply. Anything helps. 😉
@@hedrickwetshaves1997 More data is fantastic! Here's where I'd go from here: Radio - Coax - Dummy Load - Tuner OFF - TX should read close to or more power than you've set on the radio (100% power ~= 125w). SWR should read 1:1. If not, remove radio, test again with different radio - if still broke, replace original radio, change coax - if still broke, remove dummy load and replace with new dummy load or known good/measured antenna. Something is "wrong" with your setup and we need to eliminate variables to find the answer.
Looking forward to more updates.
How to tune an amplifier according to QRZ OMs: find the loudest POTA activator and go to town
Dead on frequency!
They can't kick you off a frequency so they can have their net if they haven't tuned up first now, can they?
Nice video ....I guess we have more technicians here to teach you how to do what you already know ....keep on the good work...and for does others that cud do it better....ware is your videos .... critics and more critics .... Jesus let the man do his thing... 73
I also want to tell you it right on fm the more carrier or key or punch 👊 like we call it in the hood... The more you get ..on Am I never did none of that...I key and move the knobs..then wen I saw the needle move I just start talking and just hold like one tune of voice ahhhhhhhhhhhh let it go every 3 or 4 second and do it couple times in both sides ..lol is funny but that's how my Grandpa did it a American native Arawak veteran in fact they were the ones that bring them radios back from the war ...and they used does frequency so call air and marines it was does channels they used lower and upper and it goes on and on but I'm not going to tell you my whole life story lol 😁 anyways I been working with vacuum tubes seance I was a kid I was 12 wen my Grandpa let me had my first station in the island wen I was on vacation...and wen I came back home was my hobby and is been for years but this is the safe way to do it and you did it ...I love the radio so much I don't know what I would do if I didn't had one ...takes for the flowers 73 F.OPERATOR...the 65 borinqueniers
ruclips.net/user/shorts8H-ZDWvHb24?feature=share
Sounds like fun times and good memories
hey if anybody has an extra amplifier I could play with please let me know!
I'll pass the word around
@@temporarilyoffline Next?
@@Siskiyous6 You're on the list!
Wow, that is not how I interpreted the manuals for both radio and amplifier.
That amp manual is interesting, look up W6LGs assessment of it on RUclips if you want a laugh.
You said , "we?" grins?
We are not alone.
No burn in time on the tubes "
I took it easy for a while!
@@temporarilyoffline Ok. Ive heard of burn in time with new tubes but I've never had anyone tell me how or what to do with new tubes.Thanks.
@@bonkyone3195 I hadn't heard from anybody at first either - but my procedure was to just run for a bit at 100w, then 300w, then 500w and I was "good"
@@temporarilyoffline THANKS!
same as on a car engine (no Tesla..I mean a gasoline car..grin) ...take it easy for a while ...a few evenings on half power or less and you will be good to go for more..
check input Swr (between rig and amp) and if needed finetune the input coils
All that stuff just to increase an RF signal. Unreal!
1960s tech at its best!
The pictures behind you are not straight?? can you explain why?
I can.
With all due respect you having time to do such a presentation I must say that instructions you have got are not quite correct. Adjusting the output stage which is usually a Collins Filter is done differently than what you are showing here. It has been a while since I had anything with vacuum tubes but as much as I remember we were ALWAYS looking for minimum current with the plate control (a DIP) and maximum output power (a PEAK) with the load control and again back and forth to drive maximum output. At the circuit resonance the plate current is always minimum, period. The best way is to start with more capacity at the output which is less power but sharper DIP on the plate, then continue to open the load capacitor to increase the power gradually, doing it back and forth. MIN PLATE MAX POWER
KQ4CD hello T>O>
Hello Paul!
Imagine running with no ALC
Living on the edge man!
Taking more than five seconds to tune up. Bad for the tubes. I just set the radio to 50 watts and tune the amp. one time and that gives me 700 PEP.
Great idea Tim!
QRO with 811H? LOL uh No... FYI Any tube amp tune up max smoke dip plate done.
You start far too low with power ( 5 watts), .....most agree 20-25 watts as a start point. You never really tuned it....(@5 Watts)....Real tuning , and the true finesse happens at 85 watts in and an attempt at full power. This was at best a how to connect it video.
Thanks! I agree that one should too with higher drive, but I can only image the amount of hateful comments I'd get if I did do that.
Right off the bat you risked getting knocked across the room without grounding every capacitor before even putting your hands inside.
You're right, I never would have thought of that!
@@temporarilyoffline years ago looking for a job in a old time TV repair shop I walked over to the work bench where several TVs were being worked on and playing. Back covers removed revealing the inside circuitry. Manager gave me a regular pencil to point it at various components to see if I could recognize where and what they did. Then he asked me where is the High Voltage Anode lead? Like a dumbass I touched the cap connected to the CRT. With the graphite pencil and got a jolt that nearly knocked out every filling in my teeth. That bastard along with another employee even two customers were rolling on the floor laughing their asses off after falling for that trick. So I learned my lesson..the hard way
@FredrickMcCaskill-et1ku back then, they would have called that a good teacher!
he pushed the safety switch twice 😂 (unsafe/safe)
KD9OLN Antenna - ROFL - TFF ! - Go Carlos - LifeAtTerminalVelocity
That's the one!