Matt doesn't like death being just an inconvenience that can be easily overcome so he implemented a homebrew rule to add a chance of success or failure to resurrection spells.
Plus, and I may be wrong, Pike didn't have a diamond with her during this for a quick revive. Their only chance was to try to take her to a temple, and even then there was no guarantee anyone would help them.
@@DasBrickSPOILER Pike wasn't there, Kashaw handled the resurrection and others added offerings to the ritual. Vax makes a choice that impacts him for the rest of tbe campaign.
Normally when you hit 0 HP you just go unconscious and you roll saving throws. But in this case, the spell stated that anyone going below 0 HP is killed instantly and no saving throws can be made. The scene was a fantastic interpretation of what happened at the table. Laura (Vex) was mid sentence saying she was going to check for traps when Talesin (Percy) said he was reaching for the Deathwalkers Ward. Percy rolled high and dodged the spell, Vex rolled a 1.
It's one of those ambiguous situations where they had just had a huge boss fight with a beholder, tension had slackened and there was a lot of crosstalk, people not paying full attention; some people have said that Taleisin was metagaming and purposefully had Percy do it, but Hanlon's Razor suggests that it's more likely the group got lulled into a false sense of security.
19:34 Vax gives nicknames to almost everyone he's close to. Pike is Pickle, Vex is Stubby, Keyleth is Kiki, Trinket is Nephew, Grog is Big Man, Percy is de Rolo/Freddy, and Scanlan is Scan-Man. It's one of the ways he shows affection. 💜
The spell Vex was hit by was special death magic from the Goddess of death.. She got a Nat 1 on her saving throw and went straight to dead dead. In the campaign, you could see the look of realisation on Laura's face when Matt asked if that spell brought her to 0 hitpoints.
SPOILERS FOR THE TABLE GAME THAT MIGHT REFLECT EPISODE 4 OF TLOVMS2: Slight correction to the specifics of the situation from the table game: Vex did indeed roll a nat 1, but what killed her was that the 56 points of necrotic damage that put her below 0 HP from the trap and the trap was designed that if it brought someone below 0, that's a full KO, hence why she died even though both she and Trinket failed the Dex save as Vex had very little health due to this taking place right after a fight with a beholder. (Percy rolled 21 to save so he took no damage)
If I recall, Matt didn't even intend it to be an especially lethal trap, if they had stopped to heal everyone up Vex would have probably been fine, it was just a series of little mistakes that turned into one big one.
Not totally right. She did get a Nat 1, but it was to dodge the trap. She didn't do any saving throws either as it was necrotic damage, and if you are brought below 0 hp with necrotic damage, you die instantly
yup. A death spell put on a sarcophagus by the goddess of death herself in the tomb of her champions. She had every right to claim Vex and owed nothing to the grief of her companions. Vex belonged to the Raven Queen, but she deemed Vax's offer as an acceptable exchange.
Also, the big deal about the beard is that in older D&D systems, goliaths like Grog couldn't grow facial hair, or it was incredibly rare. It's changed a bit in 5e, but that's why Grog was so excited.
He technically still couldn't as the item specifics "if you are capable" and goliaths still can't grow hair. However Mercer (the DM) also didn't/doesn't care about that clause particularly because Travis was beyond excited for Grog to have a beard. Player fun is always paramount over technical details.
It's also not communicated well that the beard is just a side effect. The belt increases your constitution so gives more hit points and resistance to poisons and stuff. The beard is just fun.
8:44 - That's right, actually. Vax & Vex are both half-elves (and so is Keyleth). On the world Exandria, depending on whether you're in human or elven society, half-elves tend to be viewed as being between two worlds, that of one parent and another. In the case of Syngorn, the capital of elven society on Tal'dorei, full-blooded elves like Syldor (Vex & Vax' father) hold outdated views of half-elves as having their innately magical elven blood "diluted" by that of their human parent. Syngornian elves that hold views similar to Syldor's even have an elvish word for half-elves, "Othlir," meaning "ill-born." In the rest of The Republic of Tal'dorei society however, half-elves are actually well liked by humans, seeing them as a symbol of the bond between Tal'dorei and Syngorn.
Yeah, Keyleth kind of represents the other side to being considered "half-elf", where instead of a pure 1:1 elf-human hybrid, she grew up in a society that basically had elves and humans coexisting for so long that you can never really say how much of either they are
@CrownofMischief - also the Ashari aren't really a race, so much as a society of druids made up a multitude of different species; Orym of the Air Ashari is a halfling, and there’s a half-orc Fire Ashari in the Tal'Dorei Reborn campaign book who is heavily featured in a certain quest line.
One of my favourite lines from the stream is in one of the liveshows, when Percy asks whether Syldor is in charge of Syngorn and Vax responds "no... he's a beaucrat" and Percy gives a totally deadpan "excellent". Cue audience laughter and Travis corpsing hard.
Fun fact: the voice actor for Zhara is Mary Elizabeth McGlynn and she's also the VO director for the series! Also, originally, Travis did base Gorg's design on Kratos (because he was fan ) and also always wanted Grog to have a beard but Goliaths don't really have facial hair. So, he was over-the-moon when the belt allowed him to grow one, which is also a crazy coincidence that Kratos's design then got a beard too for the latest games :'D
As a special personal note during this scene in the campaign, we find out from vax's voice actor liam o' brien that his mom was dying from cancer and he expressed how depressed he was as he channeled his lost in the game so it all felt real to him
Liam also has some ear issues and was actively fighting some new symptoms of it when this event occurred. He's stated that he was both physically and emotionally off-balance in real life when his pretend sister died. He's said this event acted as a proxy and DnD in general allowed him to channel and express his feelings in safe, healthy environment so he could cope. He's a big proponent of people playing DnD as a form of therapy. Matt being one of the most empathetic people on this planet leaned into it and built major themes within the story just to help Liam.
@@mikebreaddelancey4755 not much to add, but what got me about this was how much Vax was trying to emulate Pike at first, and then this happened. It was a crushing blow, but it allowed Liam to work through things...life doesn't necessarily go the way you want, but you can be defeated by it or stand up, fight back, and grow through any challenge.
A lot of people criticised Liam as Vax for being overly dramatic and angsty in a way that makes him more of the protagonist, but I never felt that was totally true or fair. Liam is an actor and performer, like the rest of the crew, and this show, and others like Dimension20 by the College Humour crew, is exactly the kind of vehicle for someone with that kind of personality matrix; I speak as someone with a performing arts background who has gotten into DnD on that basis. It's also worth remembering that Liam always gives his best in these things and doesn't take himself too seriously - his running gag of pranking Grog helps remind us that he is a rogue in the truest sense of the word.
@@radicaladz Yeah I never really understood why people act that way... It's like the laughs or action goes away and some people just don't have the patience for it. Liam does an excellent job in general of portraying characters who have vastly differing forms of prolonged sadness. First Vax, then Caleb, now Orym in some ways (though it has gotten a little lighter but there are definitely some darker undertones to his backstory). Just like someone like Talesin who has expressed different forms of countercultural tropes in his characters (punk with ashton, pastel goth with Caduceus, Molly being somewhat having ties to more alternative spiritually inclined peoples, and Percy having a very high-class victorian era gothic mentality and lifestyle). It's cool that everyone has something unique to bring to their characters in CR and by extension a lot of DnD. Sad that people like Liam or Marisha can get so much flack sometimes just for having something more nuanced to offer then either pure bleakness or constant sunshine.
@Greyscale - absolutely. And none of them are one note in terms of their characters. There's a reason why Grog and Pike are very much the heart of VM, and they get just as much pathos and serious drama to play despite being total goofballs.
Yeah, Vex full ass died. You're correct that there is normally a middle ground, but some powerful effects just straight up kill you. For example, the spell "Disintegrate" deals a ton of damage and specifies that if it drops you to 0, you are not only instantly killed, but your body gets turned to a fine pile of ash, which makes even miracles like Resurrection a tough hill to climb. Equivalent effect to the Thanos Snap, but that's maybe kind of a Chekhov's Gun situation.
@@theanyktos I think you see a proxy of it in the last battle in the open credits where Scalan, wincing, extends his hand. I'm betting now those same shots appear when fighting Vecna.
Pickle is Vax's nickname for Pike. He has used it only once before in episode 3 of season 1, when Pike heals him after he jumped out a window. Can't blame you for missing such a small detail.
Even knowing what was going to happen, this still wrecked me. Compound it with the acting and the flashbacks, oof. As for Vax and Vex, they are indeed half-elven.
Laura (Vex) was in the middle of an investigation check when Taliesin (Percy) decided to touch the artifact. Taliesin passed his saving throw. Laura rolled a natural 1 on the 20 sided die (which is next level failure). The look on Taliesin's face when he realized he killed off Laura's character...
That cliffhanger is an ouch! Specific D&D tropes this episode for Mikel-Claire: Players laughing at and mispronouncing an NPC name that the GM meant to be taken seriously; aggravated rogue tries to get the rest of the party to stop poking everything before the trap check. High enough level clerics do have access to magic that can bring back the dead. This is to counter the high level magic that can straight up kill a person (do not pass go, do not make saving throws). Matt Mercer runs his games with house rules that add more uncertainty to the resurrection magic - there's a check involved and it gets harder every time a character gets brought back.
And there was a certain death at one point where Matt left it up to the player if they thought the resurrection ritual would have been enough to bring back the character.
the twins are half elfs its hinted in first season they where orginally raised by their human mother till she was killed by a dragon. then went to live with their father in an elven city.
They didn't stay with her until she was killed, their father came to take them when they were children. The dragon attacked while they were away in Syngorn. also... (spoilers) It was Thordak that attacked Birodan and killed their mother.
You two were so much fun to watch! for a long time critter, it's like rediscovering the show all over again when we get to watch with someone new to Vox Machina :)
Just to let you know how important this event is. The effect of what happens next will echo in this campaign until the last second of the ending. So the effects of this might be with us for 2-3 maybe 4 more seasons.
It can be accurately described as a modified version of the Scrying spell, but I think there's a more accurate game mechanic. In D&D 5th edition RaW, Scrying gives you an observation point within 10 feet of what you are scrying on as if you are present, but it is almost always flavored as being viewed through a crystal ball (a required material component to cast the spell, though there is no mention of how it is used). As a DM myself, I can best see it fit into 5e mechanics as an involuntary vision from Sarenrae rather than an intentional spell from Pike. She does have access to that spell, but the dialog and lack of a crystal spellcasting focus in the scene makes me lean towards a DM "boon" from Pike's patron deity if we're trying to find the closest 5e mechanics.
We've seen the "death's door" situation a couple times so far in the show (first with Cassandra, then with Keyleth). Vex just got hit by a death spell from the death sarcophagus of the Goddess of Death, so this is a bit different. Totally correct about how if you're high enough level you can actually bring people back from dead-dead. Not sure if they're there yet. Vax has called Pike "Pickle" once before in the show (S01E03) in the Briarwood fight in front of Uriel's palace, after he jumped out the window.
This setting has a slightly different canon for bringing people back from the dead. They do have resurrection magic, but it is very difficult and does not always succeed.
18:33 Zahra is a warlock who gets her powers from an otherworldly patron and Kashaw is a cleric whose goddess (Vesh) married him at birth and consummated their marriage when he was 15 by mingling her sweat with his blood. He tried to kill her then but failed and hasn't seen her since - though she gives him his powers. Love the reactions! 😃❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Gotta remember that they’re in a tomb of the warrior of the goddess that presides over death, the vestige is called the “Deathwalker’s Ward”… kind of a theme going here. So healing/resurrection spells can work if used quickly but being in a place so devoted to death, the rules of healing and resurrection might not apply here…
I'm surprised by the way they're portraying Zahra and Kashaw. In the game they weren't even close to as antagonistic as they have been in these two episodes. They both still had a sarcastic edge and traded friendly barbs with the group but they actually got along with the rest of Vox Machina really well. They weren't NPCs either, they were guest players (same actors who voice them in the show) and quickly became some of the most beloved guest players/characters in the show. It was also their first time ever playing D&D.
I’m interested to see how their role in what happens next is played out with how much more antagonistic they’re portrayed here. (Sorry keeping vague so no spoilers)
I think it's definitely intentional & it's going to show a lot of character progression...but we'll see. Just trusting CR and buckling in for the ride.
I'm sure they kept Mary and Will as in the loop as possible wrt their characterization and storyline, everyone is good friends, and Mary is the shows voice director, so she's already involved in the production
@@idgarobingoodfellow Oh yeah, I'm sure it's intended to give them nice round character arcs and play around with interactions that are a little more spicy. I'm enjoying it, I was just caught off guard by it. I also wanted an excuse to tell our lovely reactors a bit about Mary and Will, lol.
Groggs beard comes from a belt of dwarven strength which makes the wearer grow a beard whether they want one or not. Kraven edge is the name of his sword.
Vax did call Pike Pickle in S1e3 after she healed him after he jumped out the window to get away from Silas. I don't even know what happens in the next episode but there are several types of resurrection magic and some deaths that are instant as this one seems without death saves. Guess we'll find out what happens on Friday when the next 3 episodes drop.
I super enjoy watching these episodes with you. The both of you have such an infectious, positive energy and it doesn't feel like you're talking over the show too much!
So a couple details that will help a few things make sense. Goliaths (like Grog) can't normally grow hair. The belt Grog put on (in addition to letting him speak Dwarven and increasing his endurance) causes the wearer to grow a beard. As far as the twins, they are half-Elven. A human mother and an elf father. Elves tend to look down a lot on half elves. Rogues are really good at finding and disabling traps, so it's in their best interest to let Vax do things like this. The Death Walker died a long, long time ago. No one alive now knows him, outside of maybe Osysa.
24:40 yes there is spells like raise dead (level 5th) resurrection (7th) true resurrection (9th) that can bring a character back to life but it requires expensive components to use those spells like diamonds etc and its not a guaranteed to bring them back the soul of the character needs to be willing to come back
She's all the way dead. In lore, the spell in the glyph they triggered was Power Word Kill which is either you save and nothing happens, or you're straight to dead. It was literally an "if you touch this vestige, you die" spell. Resurrection magic exists, but it is particularly difficult to perform and is not guaranteed to succeed.
If you'd like to learn more about Purvon Suul, you really should consider watching their short live play called Exandria Unlimited (EXU): Calamity. It covers a time in the far past of the history of this world and gives some of the origin information for the vestiges. It also was probably some of the best story telling in all of the CR series. And it's only 4 episodes(4-5 hours each show). I'd wait until after Season 2 of LoVM is done, though.
@Syntell The EXU Calamity short does fill in a lot of origins backstory for several things in lore, but don't feel like you have to watch 16 hours of tabletop gameplay to understand what's going on in the animated show. I'm sure we'll fill you in when the time comes. 😉 A quick, no-spoilers nutshell of Exandrian history is as follows: 1st age: Gods come to Exandria and start building a world, but find some elemental primordial beings who don't appreciate them digging up their front yard. The ensuing struggle ends with a coexistence agreement of sorts, but it split the Gods into Prime Deities and Betrayer Gods in what is referred to the Schism. 2nd age: The age following is known as the "Age of Arcanum" where there's tons of crazy magic. 3rd age: The Calamity was a relatively short age of 150-200 years that was more or less a nuclear holocaust and war following some shit that the Betrayer Gods coordinated and pull off over the course of a few hours (which is what the EXU Calamity short is about). 4th age: Calamity ends with the Prime Deities creating the Divine Gate that essentially blocks gods from physically appearing in Exandria forever in an event referred to as The Divergence (though their influence still reaches through). The current Exandrian calendar is measured in years post-divergence.
Just so y'all know what the stakes were during the actual D&D game; When a Player Character drops to 0 HP they make rolls to see if they die or not. If they fail enough rolls, they're dead and can't be healed. (Meaning, their HP can't get above 0 anymore) It is possible to bring someone back, but doing so requires a powerful spell or priest, some expensive materials, and a roll. The DM would make a roll behind his screen, if he beat a certain number, the character came back. There were things the players could do to make that roll easier to beat, giving a sermon or a meaningful gift could lower the bar for success, but it is still entirely possible to fail. So as future seasons come out keep in mind: A dead main character has no garuntee of returning
In the campaign this is based on she really did die here. It was very sudden because the trap was a special one that where when normally someone who dropped to 0hp is sent on unconscious, this one dealt large burst damage and led to an instant death instead.
Matt has some homebrew around the revivify spell. I can't remember if Pike has the spell yet or not. In terms of death saving throws, that particular trap had some funky things going on but telling you the specific funky thing might be a spoiler so I'll leave it at that! I'm thoroughly enjoying your guys' react videos for LOVM, I can't wait to watch the new ones once more episodes come out!
As far as dnd call outs. Dms have to come up with everything, including names. Pur'Van Sul was a name Matt made up ,thought was cool, and table found a joke in it. Happens to a large amount of DMs out there.
About Purvon. Matt writes everything himself so he had never actually said the name out loud before he said it live on stream lmao. The cast makes sure he will never live it down.
Love how much attention you pay to the story and trying to figure things out! Looking forward to more. Liam o Brian can makes everyone cry all the time. So glad you can experience that too in this animated show now.
I threw a lovely little clip on my channel of the original campaign comparison with the animated bits cut in. Campaign scenes have been edited to avoid any potential spoilers for ep 4 of the series. Loved your reaction
Also to clear the doubts cuz i doubt they are gonna explicity explain it (if they do then this in no spoiler at all just context) 1) Pike was scrying in the beginning so she was seeing the live feed of Thordak demanding tribute from the people of Emon and saying nah and burning everyone 2) You are correct, Vex and Vax are half elves, their mom was a human. Also yes, we all hate their dad.
The reaction to Purvan's name is directly from the reaction during the game, like those are all direct quotes. It's still a running joke at the table even now 🤣
Lights aren't out while making saves, and if she was making saves the regular healing Pike was trying would have worked. The trap was necromantic in nature and had special rules about death
Great call on the wrestling poses. Grog probably was channeling a specific wrestler but I don't wrestling enough to add to this. Travis has made fan like references to professional wrestling before. so I'm sure he'd tuck in real world easter eggs like that.
Pike can heal anyone who's unconscious. But bringing someone back to life who has already died is a whole other matter. Still possible, but those spells have costly components and strict usages
You are right. Syldor was an ambassador who travelled to Emon, shacked up with a peasant woman on the way there and the twins were born. Imagine the damage 2 half blood children can do to his political career in a pretty racist city
I have heard a lot about these characters and this campaign, but never knew this. I was SHOOK, watching this episode. I was not ready to suddenly lose Vex, who is one of my faves thanks to Laura Bailey’s performance. This episode made me super stoked to read the prequel novel about Vax and Vex that I just bought, though.
In the game, once you go to zero, like you said, there are a series of dice rolls to see if you stabilize or die. And for higher level characters, there are remediation options available even in when the dice fail. For the show, this is going to be one of the most challenging mechanics to adapt without undermining the narrative. They've already made changes to the order of some events and certain character relationships to better fit the timeline of the show, so we'll have to see.
You can move while concentrating on a spell. You just can't cast another spell that needs concentration. Also, the water doesn't flood the tomb because the doors are water tight. Scanlan specifically said that they're pull doors when grog couldn't push them open. They're designed to prevent the water from getting in.
Without spoiling anything that's to come, just wanted to point a few things out from how this went in the campaign. 1. The Deathwalker's Ward was trapped with a powerful necrotic spell, befitting the tomb of the champion of the goddess of death. That spell, if it takes your hp below zero causes INSTANT DEATH. No death saving throws, no healing, just straight to dead. So at this moment in time, Vex is completely dead. 2. There are spells in DND 5e that clerics and paladins can cast that can resurrect people from death. In the default rules, these spells just automatically succeed when you cast them, but in Matt Mercer's home rules he adds a layer of complication to these spells. Instead of just automatically succeeding, he makes the players perform a ritual where they beseech the gods to return the person to life and have to make rolls to determine if their offerings are looked upon favourably or not. If they fail the skill challenge, the resurrection fails and I don't believe it can be attempted again. So this is not like 5e where death has no consequences beyond a certain level when you can guarantee a revivify spell. I won't go into detail about how this turns out yet, but just keep that in mind. Lastly, if you want to see how this moment played out at the table, you can find it in Campaign 1 episode 44 at 4:23:00 but it WILL lead to spoilers beyond this episode if you watch it all the way through.
There are high level clerical spells that are capable of bringing the dead back to life. Namely “Raise Dead”, “Resurrection”, and “True Resurrection”. Using Rules As Written, they are very costly to cast (Raise Dead requires a diamond worth 1000 gold, while Resurrection requires a diamond worth 5000 gold, and True Resurrection requires a diamond worth 10,000 gold, iirc). Matt Mercer, the Dungeon Master for the D&D campaign that this series is based on, has added a house rule so as to make the possibility of character death more than just a minor inconvenience which can be overcome with enough gold. The spell has a certain chance of failing, and the more times a single character has to be resurrected, the greater the chance of spell failure. However, he also made it so that a certain number of people can ask the deceased’s spirit to return to the living, and for each person who asks the chance of failure reduces a certain amount. It makes for some really great role playing in the D&D sessions. On a personal note, a DM that I played with not too long ago came up with a house rule that Resurrection spells require trading a life for a life. And it must be a life of equal value. So in order to resurrect a 10th level fighter who fell in battle, the cleric would have to sacrifice an NPC of at least 10th level in order for the spell to work. That’s the beauty of D&D. If you don’t like a certain rule, you can just change it. Sometimes your group house rule even winds up becoming an official rule in a future edition of the game.
While what you say about Death Saves is accurate, the problem is that the trap did Necrotic damage. If necrotic damage drops you below 0hp, you skip the saves and go straight to dead dead.
There are 4 spells (revivify, resurrection, raise the dead, and reincarnation) a healer like Pike can use to bring back someone who died depending on how long and how the died. Unfortunately, Vex was killed directly by the Raven Queen, the goddess of death. Unsurprisingly, when you mess with a vestige called the Deathwalker's Ward created by her, its going to live up to its name. Death itself decided whether she would live or die. No magic from a mere mortal can overcome the power of the domain of a god.
Pike was trying to heal Vex when Vax first started climbing up, but she stopped and started crying. I think she's just straight-up dead; and I don't think healers can bring back the dead, necromancers do that.
I think Pike's vision at the beginning was a representation of the Scrying spell, which you can use to see a person or location you are familiar with, as long as they are on the same plane as you. In this case, scrying on Emon to see what is currently happening. In the episode, right after it happens they describe it as 'a vision from the Everlight.'
The Purvon was straight from the Live Play. Mat Mercer (the DM) came up with a cool name but everyone made jokes and clowned on him. Yes that "diluted" crack is in fact that the twins are half-elf.
For those who don't follow, the "diluted" line refers to the fact that the twins are half-elves, not full elves. While their father is an elf (as seen in this episode), their mother was human.
Yeah there sometimes is a possibility for you to die with no saving throws. In this case yes, she didn’t get saving throws. To clarify, if you go to 0 and get saving throws, it means you’re unconscious, not dead. Dead means you need a revivify which is very very expensive.
also great reaction. as a long time critter it is great to see this story unfold from a fresh point of view and I think you both are grasping it very well. and yes the whole 'Diluted' thing is because of their half elven heritage.
In the case of this particular trap they encountered with the amount of necrotic damage she took, she skipped the death saving throws and is dead dead.
Yeah Vax and Vex’s mom is a human! Also there are different levels of resurrection spells available to clerics and some other classes in DnD. But Matt implemented a rule where they have to roll to see if it succeeds or not instead of making it automatic. Plus there are components and other aspects that make those kinds of spells more difficult to access. Also important to mention Pike wasn’t actually there in game when this happened, so not sure what kind of role she’ll play in this because of that. Also you guys mentioned how Vax and Trinket will be affected by this death, but I think it’s interesting to look at Percy and his role in this. He found the sarcophagus and egged Vex on. He’s the one who touched the vestige and set off the trap. He’s already burdened by a lot of guilt and this is just going to add to that (whether or not she does come back).
In the live stream the trap was a very powerful one and Laura Bailey, who plays Vex, rolled a 1 (a critical failure) and since the damage she took brought her beyond zero hit points (Hit Points are the amount of damage a character can take before going unconscious and doing death save rolls) it flat out killed killed Vex’alia. Below is a link to a video showing the actual game play and the scene from TLoVM you just watched. ruclips.net/video/0AuHfXwTY1M/видео.html (But I have to say that LoVM switching between the young Vex and Vax flashbacks and the finding and opening of the Champions sarcophagus was superb! It really tugged at the emotions of the audience much more than the gameplay could have.)
The reason why Pike couldn't heal Uriel, where she (and Keyleth and Scanlan) could heal Cassandra and Keyleth is because there's a difference between "mostly dead" and dead. In D&D, when you are reduced to 0 hit points, you aren't actually dead-dead. You have a chance to hang on. You make death saving rolls, and if you succeed 3 times, you stabilize. If you fail 3 times, you die. If you take more damage, that goes down as 2 failed saving rolls, bringing you closer to death. However, you can be instantly killed in a couple ways. Certain spells will insta-kill if you hit 0hp from the damage of it - spells that are specifically dealing in death, like Power Word Kill, for example. Also, if you take enough damage to bring your hp to negative of your max health, you insta-die. So if your max HP is 105, and you take 105 damage after your HP is at 0, you die. Civilians tend not to be as hearty as adventurers, which means that his HP was probably pretty low. Your average level one adventurer only has maybe 10HP max. So if he took 20 points of damage (which an ancient dragon would easily be able to do that with its attack), he's just dead. There are two main spells for bringing someone back from the dead. First is a spell called Revivify, which requires 300 gold worth of diamonds. It looks like they're taking some liberties with this in the show - Keyleth and Vax both using the mix of dirt, herbs, and spit for example. This is a limited one. In the game, you have a minute to cast it after someone falls to 0. I'm wondering if they will change that so that this only works on mostly dead, because we see Pike trying to heal at the end of the episode, but it doesn't work. In which case, the only way to bring someone back is a Resurrection spell. That is high level magic, and requires 10,000 gold worth of diamonds. It's a 7th level spell, so Pike wouldn't have had it until she was level 13. In the game, that doesn't happen until episode 58, which would put it somewhere towards the middle to end of this season.
Yep that's how Vex died, I know a lot of people love Laura's second character more but Vex was a great character and I was sad when she died to that trap. I did love the effect that it had on Vax's story going forwards though.
Thordak is a pretty good name, but my favorite is Vermithrax Pejorative; translated from Latin it means "The Wyrm of Thrace that makes things Worse". He's from a 1981 movie called "Dragonslayer" and it's actually a Disney/Paramount movie.
Remember that this isn't entirely a scripted story. While some creative liberties are taken here and there, the major story beats come from a live D&D campaign which itself doesn't necessarily adhere to the "rules" of storytelling. In this case, one PC (Percy's player) stated he was touching the loot before they could search for traps, and though he succeeded on his saving throw tonget out of the way of the trap, Vex's player rolled a natural 1 and didn't. This was literally a story beat determined by the players fooling around and a really bad die roll ... and was one of the more dramatic moments in campaign 1. And that's part of why stories like this can be so entertaining, because things like this can happen in them. But yeah, Vex is dead. Like dead dead. As in she got hit by an instant death spell trap guarding the tomb of the champion of the GODDESS OF DEATH in one of her temples kind of dead.
In the streamed game, Vex, Trinket, and Percy needed to make Dexterity Saving Throws. Vex rolled a Nat 1, Trinket rolled low as well, and I think Percy rolled a 21 [plus modifiers] Matt Mercer [DM]: [To Percy] As you reach out and grab for the armor, as your fingers touch it, there's this vibrations and it seems like the shadows, the nearby shadows in the corners, seem to reach up towards your hands. You pull back in time, [To Vex and Trinket] but you and Trinket notice a little too late as there's a burst of death. A burst of death energy bursts out for a ten-foot radiusaround the entire sarcophagus. [To Percy] You avoid it. [To Vex and Trinket] Both you and Trinket suffer 58 points of Necrotic Damage. Laura Baily [Vex'ahlia]: I'm unconcious. Trinket-- Matt Mercer [DM]: [To Vex] Does that bring you below zero? Laura Baily [Vex'ahlia]: ...Yeah Matt Mercer [DM]:Vex's body falls and hits the stonework, and you look over as you see her eyes stare up, the last bit of air escaping from her lungs as the life drips out of her form. This is what happened at the table during their streams and I just wrote it down and for you people to read and ponder. I'm not much versed with the rules of DnD, but I think, if I remember correctly, Damaging you to zero makes you unconsious and unable to function, a player has then to make 3 Death Saves. 3 success' means your back in the fight, and 3 loss' means that you die permanently. Excess damage once health goes to zero gets carried over towards the Death Saves. And the number of lost Death Saves depends on how high the inflicted or excess damage is, I think. I do not have full context, so I do not know if she was low after the fight with the fish people, but the damage was high enough to warrant a 3 consecutive loss on the Death Saving throw.
There was a mini boss fight right before the trap (which we catch a glimpse of in the trailer, so it's likely happening to wherever Zahra and Kash went, most likely happening next episode) that had her low on HP. Also to clarify the excess damage you take in the initial attack doesn't affect any death saves. Taking additional hits does, but not the immediate hit. The danger comes from if you reach your HP max but in negatives that will 1 hit kill you. For example if you have 50 HP and you take 100 points of damage, there goes your 50 to bring you to zero and thus make you unconcious and the extra 50 matches your max, effectively killing you immediately due to how heavy of a hit you just took. You won't ever be in negative HP, just if the excess damage you take matches your max health.
This was straight death in dnd you can revive but i think next episode it will be dealt with also in the campaign pike wasn't there but zahra and kash were
Going on what happened in the DnD game, that was a necrotic blast and it borught Vex to bellow 0; that means instant death, no saving throws no nothing. So she gone gone
You are spot on Vex and Vax are both half-elves. They initially grewup with their human mother but were taken to the Eleven city by their father when they were young kids where they were discriminated against for being only half-elven. Fun Fact Keyleth is also a half-elf but in the Ashari tribes they are not discriminated against
Lore Dump for anyone who wants to read. Exandria History, Topic: The Calamity The Calamity, which led to the creation of the Vestiges of Divergence, was a centuries long war between the gods that ended over 800 years before the start of the series. The Calamity began during the Second Age of Exandria known as the Age of Arcanum, when mortals pushed the limits of magic to the extremes in an effort to challenge the gods themselves. The Matron of Ravens is a Unique figure as her actions led to the end of the Age of Arcanum and the Calamity itself. The Matron was at one point a mortal mage, but she somehow figured out how to achieve godhood and subsequently replaced the former god of death, who’s name has been long since forgotten. Her ascension to godhood led many mages to attempt the same. One mage, Vespin Chloras, sought to achieve godhood with the assistance of the imprisoned Betrayer Gods. Freeing the Betrayers from their prisons led to the Calamity as the Prime Deities came to the aid of their creations. After centuries of fighting, and two-thirds of Exandria’s population killed and the world forever altered physically, The Betrayer Gods were defeated and sealed away again. After the all the destruction came the Divergence. Realizing their influence and presence on the Prime Material Plane should be limited, the Prime Deities constructed the Divine Gate, a barrier between themselves and the world. In, perhaps naive, hope that it would bring the people of Exandria some measure of peace.
I'm not a Critter but I have had some stuff spoiled for me, so I won't comment too much on what I think happened to Vex. But as a former role-player, two things jumped out about this episode. One: this wasn't a Grog dungeon. Grog is great when there are a lot of monsters to fight. But a dungeon that doesn't have a lot of battles, but plenty of traps is probably super frustrating for someone like Grog. I've DMed trap heavy dungeons on hack and slay type players and they hate those. 2nd, the trap at the end of the episode reminds me of one particularly infamous dungeon, the Tomb of Horrors. That dungeon was loaded with a lot of instakill traps that were designed to screw with players' heads. Tomb of Horrors is a terrible dungeon to run in a campaign, unless you let your friends make completely expendable characters and run it just to see how far they would go. But a sarcophagus with a skeleton wearing an artifact guarded by death magic feels very on brand with ToH.
I was one of the 88,887 who backed the Kickstarter that brought us season 1 (Critters kick the sh1t out of everything) and I ask fellow Critters; how much would you pledge to a Kickstarter to do a Mighty Nein toon? I bet we could beat the 11.3 million we did for tis one. 😁
because they started with pathfinder and moved over to DND when they started streaming, i think crit role play with more intricate death rules than vanilla DND. resurrections do not automatically succeed and the saving throw gets harder and harder for each successive time you come back. it adds a lot of jeopardy when a character dies (and costs at least 300 gold in diamond)
The ritual that Matt made is a homebrew one. So it's not a thing that is a vestige from when they were in Pathfinder. It was a ritual that Matt decided to make because he wanted death to have more meaning and be more difficult to fix and to kinda punish when a character does fully die. Because each time they die and the ritual is completed to bring them back the DC for the ritual increases so it's harder and harder to bring their soul back to their body each time they fully die. Which again makes death mean more if there is a chance that the ritual can fail. And it absolutely can.
Matt doesn't like death being just an inconvenience that can be easily overcome so he implemented a homebrew rule to add a chance of success or failure to resurrection spells.
Plus, and I may be wrong, Pike didn't have a diamond with her during this for a quick revive. Their only chance was to try to take her to a temple, and even then there was no guarantee anyone would help them.
@@DasBrickSPOILER
Pike wasn't there, Kashaw handled the resurrection and others added offerings to the ritual.
Vax makes a choice that impacts him for the rest of tbe campaign.
@@Ozgarthefighter Maybe mark your entire comment as spoilers
@@AlexanderTheTiny fair point. Changed it now.
@@Ozgarthefighter oh true. It's been a few years
Normally when you hit 0 HP you just go unconscious and you roll saving throws. But in this case, the spell stated that anyone going below 0 HP is killed instantly and no saving throws can be made.
The scene was a fantastic interpretation of what happened at the table.
Laura (Vex) was mid sentence saying she was going to check for traps when Talesin (Percy) said he was reaching for the Deathwalkers Ward.
Percy rolled high and dodged the spell, Vex rolled a 1.
It's one of those ambiguous situations where they had just had a huge boss fight with a beholder, tension had slackened and there was a lot of crosstalk, people not paying full attention; some people have said that Taleisin was metagaming and purposefully had Percy do it, but Hanlon's Razor suggests that it's more likely the group got lulled into a false sense of security.
19:34 Vax gives nicknames to almost everyone he's close to. Pike is Pickle, Vex is Stubby, Keyleth is Kiki, Trinket is Nephew, Grog is Big Man, Percy is de Rolo/Freddy, and Scanlan is Scan-Man. It's one of the ways he shows affection. 💜
And then Vex showing affection is calling everybody Darling.
@Shari Weber Or Love.
Pike nicknames Vax Stringbean - I won't say when in particular that came up because spoilers, but it made a very emotional moment even more adorable.
I cried for real. The voice acting this episode was incredible, Vax in particular really gutted me
Liam O' Brien is really that good! I really really like him.
Critter here, I knew the death was coming and I still cried they really did an amazing job with this episode
duh
Same voice actor as Gaara of the Sand. Liam O’ Freaking Brien
@@spacejammer1991 Same. I didn't expect it to hit me, since I knew it was coming, but every time I watch this scene, I still tear up.
The spell Vex was hit by was special death magic from the Goddess of death.. She got a Nat 1 on her saving throw and went straight to dead dead. In the campaign, you could see the look of realisation on Laura's face when Matt asked if that spell brought her to 0 hitpoints.
SPOILERS FOR THE TABLE GAME THAT MIGHT REFLECT EPISODE 4 OF TLOVMS2:
Slight correction to the specifics of the situation from the table game: Vex did indeed roll a nat 1, but what killed her was that the 56 points of necrotic damage that put her below 0 HP from the trap and the trap was designed that if it brought someone below 0, that's a full KO, hence why she died even though both she and Trinket failed the Dex save as Vex had very little health due to this taking place right after a fight with a beholder. (Percy rolled 21 to save so he took no damage)
If I recall, Matt didn't even intend it to be an especially lethal trap, if they had stopped to heal everyone up Vex would have probably been fine, it was just a series of little mistakes that turned into one big one.
@@bookwormwithwings - organic storytelling. This is what I love about this stuff.
Not totally right. She did get a Nat 1, but it was to dodge the trap. She didn't do any saving throws either as it was necrotic damage, and if you are brought below 0 hp with necrotic damage, you die instantly
yup. A death spell put on a sarcophagus by the goddess of death herself in the tomb of her champions. She had every right to claim Vex and owed nothing to the grief of her companions. Vex belonged to the Raven Queen, but she deemed Vax's offer as an acceptable exchange.
Also, the big deal about the beard is that in older D&D systems, goliaths like Grog couldn't grow facial hair, or it was incredibly rare. It's changed a bit in 5e, but that's why Grog was so excited.
He technically still couldn't as the item specifics "if you are capable" and goliaths still can't grow hair. However Mercer (the DM) also didn't/doesn't care about that clause particularly because Travis was beyond excited for Grog to have a beard. Player fun is always paramount over technical details.
Goliaths cant grow any hair at all. The only other goliath with any hair was the Plank King...who scalped the previous Plank King and wore it
It's also not communicated well that the beard is just a side effect. The belt increases your constitution so gives more hit points and resistance to poisons and stuff. The beard is just fun.
@@djcowell91 But does it have to be? Grog is already a strong mofo, the beard adds to the story more than any buffs he might get
@@djcowell91 It also allows the wearer to read Dwarven, but Grog can't read.
8:44 - That's right, actually. Vax & Vex are both half-elves (and so is Keyleth). On the world Exandria, depending on whether you're in human or elven society, half-elves tend to be viewed as being between two worlds, that of one parent and another. In the case of Syngorn, the capital of elven society on Tal'dorei, full-blooded elves like Syldor (Vex & Vax' father) hold outdated views of half-elves as having their innately magical elven blood "diluted" by that of their human parent. Syngornian elves that hold views similar to Syldor's even have an elvish word for half-elves, "Othlir," meaning "ill-born." In the rest of The Republic of Tal'dorei society however, half-elves are actually well liked by humans, seeing them as a symbol of the bond between Tal'dorei and Syngorn.
Yeah, Keyleth kind of represents the other side to being considered "half-elf", where instead of a pure 1:1 elf-human hybrid, she grew up in a society that basically had elves and humans coexisting for so long that you can never really say how much of either they are
@CrownofMischief - also the Ashari aren't really a race, so much as a society of druids made up a multitude of different species; Orym of the Air Ashari is a halfling, and there’s a half-orc Fire Ashari in the Tal'Dorei Reborn campaign book who is heavily featured in a certain quest line.
One of my favourite lines from the stream is in one of the liveshows, when Percy asks whether Syldor is in charge of Syngorn and Vax responds "no... he's a beaucrat" and Percy gives a totally deadpan "excellent". Cue audience laughter and Travis corpsing hard.
Fun fact: the voice actor for Zhara is Mary Elizabeth McGlynn and she's also the VO director for the series!
Also, originally, Travis did base Gorg's design on Kratos (because he was fan ) and also always wanted Grog to have a beard but Goliaths don't really have facial hair. So, he was over-the-moon when the belt allowed him to grow one, which is also a crazy coincidence that Kratos's design then got a beard too for the latest games :'D
As a special personal note during this scene in the campaign, we find out from vax's voice actor liam o' brien that his mom was dying from cancer and he expressed how depressed he was as he channeled his lost in the game so it all felt real to him
Liam also has some ear issues and was actively fighting some new symptoms of it when this event occurred. He's stated that he was both physically and emotionally off-balance in real life when his pretend sister died. He's said this event acted as a proxy and DnD in general allowed him to channel and express his feelings in safe, healthy environment so he could cope. He's a big proponent of people playing DnD as a form of therapy. Matt being one of the most empathetic people on this planet leaned into it and built major themes within the story just to help Liam.
@@mikebreaddelancey4755 not much to add, but what got me about this was how much Vax was trying to emulate Pike at first, and then this happened. It was a crushing blow, but it allowed Liam to work through things...life doesn't necessarily go the way you want, but you can be defeated by it or stand up, fight back, and grow through any challenge.
A lot of people criticised Liam as Vax for being overly dramatic and angsty in a way that makes him more of the protagonist, but I never felt that was totally true or fair. Liam is an actor and performer, like the rest of the crew, and this show, and others like Dimension20 by the College Humour crew, is exactly the kind of vehicle for someone with that kind of personality matrix; I speak as someone with a performing arts background who has gotten into DnD on that basis. It's also worth remembering that Liam always gives his best in these things and doesn't take himself too seriously - his running gag of pranking Grog helps remind us that he is a rogue in the truest sense of the word.
@@radicaladz Yeah I never really understood why people act that way... It's like the laughs or action goes away and some people just don't have the patience for it. Liam does an excellent job in general of portraying characters who have vastly differing forms of prolonged sadness. First Vax, then Caleb, now Orym in some ways (though it has gotten a little lighter but there are definitely some darker undertones to his backstory). Just like someone like Talesin who has expressed different forms of countercultural tropes in his characters (punk with ashton, pastel goth with Caduceus, Molly being somewhat having ties to more alternative spiritually inclined peoples, and Percy having a very high-class victorian era gothic mentality and lifestyle). It's cool that everyone has something unique to bring to their characters in CR and by extension a lot of DnD. Sad that people like Liam or Marisha can get so much flack sometimes just for having something more nuanced to offer then either pure bleakness or constant sunshine.
@Greyscale - absolutely. And none of them are one note in terms of their characters. There's a reason why Grog and Pike are very much the heart of VM, and they get just as much pathos and serious drama to play despite being total goofballs.
The voice actress for Zahra is the voice director for the show. She is big in the business.
Yeah, Vex full ass died. You're correct that there is normally a middle ground, but some powerful effects just straight up kill you. For example, the spell "Disintegrate" deals a ton of damage and specifies that if it drops you to 0, you are not only instantly killed, but your body gets turned to a fine pile of ash, which makes even miracles like Resurrection a tough hill to climb. Equivalent effect to the Thanos Snap, but that's maybe kind of a Chekhov's Gun situation.
And I'm just waiting for "I cast counterspell" "at what level" "9th level" *player and DM look at eachother with appropriate facial expressions*
@@momqabtI'm really interested to see how they'll translate that.
@@theanyktos
I think you see a proxy of it in the last battle in the open credits where Scalan, wincing, extends his hand. I'm betting now those same shots appear when fighting Vecna.
@@richardhealy hmmm... possibly
the comment about the blood bending was *chef kiss* i love your reactions!
Pickle is Vax's nickname for Pike. He has used it only once before in episode 3 of season 1, when Pike heals him after he jumped out a window. Can't blame you for missing such a small detail.
He does again in episode 4 when they're trying to escape from house arrest.
@@uselessmitten7836 I stand corrected.
Even knowing what was going to happen, this still wrecked me. Compound it with the acting and the flashbacks, oof.
As for Vax and Vex, they are indeed half-elven.
Yeah, for me it was like, “oh no, they’re doing THIS episode. OH NO.”
Laura (Vex) was in the middle of an investigation check when Taliesin (Percy) decided to touch the artifact. Taliesin passed his saving throw. Laura rolled a natural 1 on the 20 sided die (which is next level failure). The look on Taliesin's face when he realized he killed off Laura's character...
That cliffhanger is an ouch!
Specific D&D tropes this episode for Mikel-Claire: Players laughing at and mispronouncing an NPC name that the GM meant to be taken seriously; aggravated rogue tries to get the rest of the party to stop poking everything before the trap check.
High enough level clerics do have access to magic that can bring back the dead. This is to counter the high level magic that can straight up kill a person (do not pass go, do not make saving throws). Matt Mercer runs his games with house rules that add more uncertainty to the resurrection magic - there's a check involved and it gets harder every time a character gets brought back.
Plus, other players can do things during the spell to lower the difficulty, like appeal to the dead person or give a gift to the gods
And there was a certain death at one point where Matt left it up to the player if they thought the resurrection ritual would have been enough to bring back the character.
the twins are half elfs its hinted in first season they where orginally raised by their human mother till she was killed by a dragon. then went to live with their father in an elven city.
They didn't stay with her until she was killed, their father came to take them when they were children. The dragon attacked while they were away in Syngorn. also...
(spoilers)
It was Thordak that attacked Birodan and killed their mother.
@Jet Vulcan
The Twins being Half-Elven wasn't hinted at in Season 1. It was outright stated. By Gilmore. Gilmore outright calls Vax a Half-Elf.
You two were so much fun to watch! for a long time critter, it's like rediscovering the show all over again when we get to watch with someone new to Vox Machina :)
What made me cry harder is that in the space of what, a month?, Vax has held a dying Keyleth in his arms, and now his dead sister. Poor boy.
Just to let you know how important this event is. The effect of what happens next will echo in this campaign until the last second of the ending. So the effects of this might be with us for 2-3 maybe 4 more seasons.
I'm pretty sure Pike's vision was a copyright free version of scrying, so Pike was probably seeing what was happening in Emon right at that moment.
It can be accurately described as a modified version of the Scrying spell, but I think there's a more accurate game mechanic. In D&D 5th edition RaW, Scrying gives you an observation point within 10 feet of what you are scrying on as if you are present, but it is almost always flavored as being viewed through a crystal ball (a required material component to cast the spell, though there is no mention of how it is used). As a DM myself, I can best see it fit into 5e mechanics as an involuntary vision from Sarenrae rather than an intentional spell from Pike. She does have access to that spell, but the dialog and lack of a crystal spellcasting focus in the scene makes me lean towards a DM "boon" from Pike's patron deity if we're trying to find the closest 5e mechanics.
We've seen the "death's door" situation a couple times so far in the show (first with Cassandra, then with Keyleth). Vex just got hit by a death spell from the death sarcophagus of the Goddess of Death, so this is a bit different.
Totally correct about how if you're high enough level you can actually bring people back from dead-dead. Not sure if they're there yet.
Vax has called Pike "Pickle" once before in the show (S01E03) in the Briarwood fight in front of Uriel's palace, after he jumped out the window.
This setting has a slightly different canon for bringing people back from the dead. They do have resurrection magic, but it is very difficult and does not always succeed.
18:33 Zahra is a warlock who gets her powers from an otherworldly patron and Kashaw is a cleric whose goddess (Vesh) married him at birth and consummated their marriage when he was 15 by mingling her sweat with his blood. He tried to kill her then but failed and hasn't seen her since - though she gives him his powers. Love the reactions! 😃❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Gotta remember that they’re in a tomb of the warrior of the goddess that presides over death, the vestige is called the “Deathwalker’s Ward”… kind of a theme going here. So healing/resurrection spells can work if used quickly but being in a place so devoted to death, the rules of healing and resurrection might not apply here…
I'm surprised by the way they're portraying Zahra and Kashaw. In the game they weren't even close to as antagonistic as they have been in these two episodes. They both still had a sarcastic edge and traded friendly barbs with the group but they actually got along with the rest of Vox Machina really well. They weren't NPCs either, they were guest players (same actors who voice them in the show) and quickly became some of the most beloved guest players/characters in the show. It was also their first time ever playing D&D.
I’m interested to see how their role in what happens next is played out with how much more antagonistic they’re portrayed here. (Sorry keeping vague so no spoilers)
I think it's definitely intentional & it's going to show a lot of character progression...but we'll see. Just trusting CR and buckling in for the ride.
I'm sure they kept Mary and Will as in the loop as possible wrt their characterization and storyline, everyone is good friends, and Mary is the shows voice director, so she's already involved in the production
@@idgarobingoodfellow Oh yeah, I'm sure it's intended to give them nice round character arcs and play around with interactions that are a little more spicy. I'm enjoying it, I was just caught off guard by it. I also wanted an excuse to tell our lovely reactors a bit about Mary and Will, lol.
Them being personal friends of the cast allowed them a tit for tat joking.
Will was in fact supposed to have been part of the cast.
Groggs beard comes from a belt of dwarven strength which makes the wearer grow a beard whether they want one or not.
Kraven edge is the name of his sword.
Vax did call Pike Pickle in S1e3 after she healed him after he jumped out the window to get away from Silas. I don't even know what happens in the next episode but there are several types of resurrection magic and some deaths that are instant as this one seems without death saves. Guess we'll find out what happens on Friday when the next 3 episodes drop.
I super enjoy watching these episodes with you. The both of you have such an infectious, positive energy and it doesn't feel like you're talking over the show too much!
All the Perv-on jokes came straight from table talk during the game.
So a couple details that will help a few things make sense. Goliaths (like Grog) can't normally grow hair. The belt Grog put on (in addition to letting him speak Dwarven and increasing his endurance) causes the wearer to grow a beard. As far as the twins, they are half-Elven. A human mother and an elf father. Elves tend to look down a lot on half elves. Rogues are really good at finding and disabling traps, so it's in their best interest to let Vax do things like this. The Death Walker died a long, long time ago. No one alive now knows him, outside of maybe Osysa.
24:40 yes there is spells like raise dead (level 5th) resurrection (7th) true resurrection (9th) that can bring a character back to life but it requires expensive components to use those spells like diamonds etc and its not a guaranteed to bring them back the soul of the character needs to be willing to come back
She's all the way dead. In lore, the spell in the glyph they triggered was Power Word Kill which is either you save and nothing happens, or you're straight to dead. It was literally an "if you touch this vestige, you die" spell. Resurrection magic exists, but it is particularly difficult to perform and is not guaranteed to succeed.
If you'd like to learn more about Purvon Suul, you really should consider watching their short live play called Exandria Unlimited (EXU): Calamity. It covers a time in the far past of the history of this world and gives some of the origin information for the vestiges. It also was probably some of the best story telling in all of the CR series. And it's only 4 episodes(4-5 hours each show). I'd wait until after Season 2 of LoVM is done, though.
@Syntell The EXU Calamity short does fill in a lot of origins backstory for several things in lore, but don't feel like you have to watch 16 hours of tabletop gameplay to understand what's going on in the animated show. I'm sure we'll fill you in when the time comes. 😉 A quick, no-spoilers nutshell of Exandrian history is as follows:
1st age: Gods come to Exandria and start building a world, but find some elemental primordial beings who don't appreciate them digging up their front yard. The ensuing struggle ends with a coexistence agreement of sorts, but it split the Gods into Prime Deities and Betrayer Gods in what is referred to the Schism.
2nd age: The age following is known as the "Age of Arcanum" where there's tons of crazy magic.
3rd age: The Calamity was a relatively short age of 150-200 years that was more or less a nuclear holocaust and war following some shit that the Betrayer Gods coordinated and pull off over the course of a few hours (which is what the EXU Calamity short is about).
4th age: Calamity ends with the Prime Deities creating the Divine Gate that essentially blocks gods from physically appearing in Exandria forever in an event referred to as The Divergence (though their influence still reaches through). The current Exandrian calendar is measured in years post-divergence.
Just so y'all know what the stakes were during the actual D&D game; When a Player Character drops to 0 HP they make rolls to see if they die or not. If they fail enough rolls, they're dead and can't be healed. (Meaning, their HP can't get above 0 anymore)
It is possible to bring someone back, but doing so requires a powerful spell or priest, some expensive materials, and a roll. The DM would make a roll behind his screen, if he beat a certain number, the character came back.
There were things the players could do to make that roll easier to beat, giving a sermon or a meaningful gift could lower the bar for success, but it is still entirely possible to fail.
So as future seasons come out keep in mind: A dead main character has no garuntee of returning
In the campaign this is based on she really did die here. It was very sudden because the trap was a special one that where when normally someone who dropped to 0hp is sent on unconscious, this one dealt large burst damage and led to an instant death instead.
Matt has some homebrew around the revivify spell. I can't remember if Pike has the spell yet or not.
In terms of death saving throws, that particular trap had some funky things going on but telling you the specific funky thing might be a spoiler so I'll leave it at that!
I'm thoroughly enjoying your guys' react videos for LOVM, I can't wait to watch the new ones once more episodes come out!
As far as dnd call outs. Dms have to come up with everything, including names. Pur'Van Sul was a name Matt made up ,thought was cool, and table found a joke in it. Happens to a large amount of DMs out there.
About Purvon. Matt writes everything himself so he had never actually said the name out loud before he said it live on stream lmao. The cast makes sure he will never live it down.
16:50 that was so cute 🥺
Love how much attention you pay to the story and trying to figure things out! Looking forward to more. Liam o Brian can makes everyone cry all the time. So glad you can experience that too in this animated show now.
I knew what was gonna happen and how, and it STILL hurt me. Sadboi Liam wrenching tears from my eyes from the campaign and now in animated form.
Poor Trinket still getting sidelined because he's inconvenient.
I threw a lovely little clip on my channel of the original campaign comparison with the animated bits cut in. Campaign scenes have been edited to avoid any potential spoilers for ep 4 of the series. Loved your reaction
So for this episode, what hit her was a high level necromantic (death) trap and if it kills you (drops you below zero hp) you dead dead.
Y’all are such a dope duo, can’t wait till next week
Also to clear the doubts cuz i doubt they are gonna explicity explain it (if they do then this in no spoiler at all just context)
1) Pike was scrying in the beginning so she was seeing the live feed of Thordak demanding tribute from the people of Emon and saying nah and burning everyone
2) You are correct, Vex and Vax are half elves, their mom was a human. Also yes, we all hate their dad.
The reaction to Purvan's name is directly from the reaction during the game, like those are all direct quotes. It's still a running joke at the table even now 🤣
you've seen "What the hell happened!?" now get ready for "FIX HIM!" hopefully later this season
Lights aren't out while making saves, and if she was making saves the regular healing Pike was trying would have worked. The trap was necromantic in nature and had special rules about death
Great call on the wrestling poses. Grog probably was channeling a specific wrestler but I don't wrestling enough to add to this. Travis has made fan like references to professional wrestling before. so I'm sure he'd tuck in real world easter eggs like that.
Pike can heal anyone who's unconscious. But bringing someone back to life who has already died is a whole other matter. Still possible, but those spells have costly components and strict usages
You are right. Syldor was an ambassador who travelled to Emon, shacked up with a peasant woman on the way there and the twins were born. Imagine the damage 2 half blood children can do to his political career in a pretty racist city
Some of that foreshadowing like him saying don’t go far from me actually happened in the game
Pike wasn't present when this happened in game, so that is probably why you didn't see much in her trying to heal here
Kashaw was though, and he's also a cleric.
I have heard a lot about these characters and this campaign, but never knew this. I was SHOOK, watching this episode. I was not ready to suddenly lose Vex, who is one of my faves thanks to Laura Bailey’s performance. This episode made me super stoked to read the prequel novel about Vax and Vex that I just bought, though.
In the game, once you go to zero, like you said, there are a series of dice rolls to see if you stabilize or die. And for higher level characters, there are remediation options available even in when the dice fail. For the show, this is going to be one of the most challenging mechanics to adapt without undermining the narrative. They've already made changes to the order of some events and certain character relationships to better fit the timeline of the show, so we'll have to see.
You can move while concentrating on a spell. You just can't cast another spell that needs concentration. Also, the water doesn't flood the tomb because the doors are water tight. Scanlan specifically said that they're pull doors when grog couldn't push them open. They're designed to prevent the water from getting in.
Will make getting out interesting, since all that weight of water is pushing on the doors... But I imagine they'll just skip that part in the show.
Without spoiling anything that's to come, just wanted to point a few things out from how this went in the campaign.
1. The Deathwalker's Ward was trapped with a powerful necrotic spell, befitting the tomb of the champion of the goddess of death. That spell, if it takes your hp below zero causes INSTANT DEATH. No death saving throws, no healing, just straight to dead. So at this moment in time, Vex is completely dead.
2. There are spells in DND 5e that clerics and paladins can cast that can resurrect people from death. In the default rules, these spells just automatically succeed when you cast them, but in Matt Mercer's home rules he adds a layer of complication to these spells. Instead of just automatically succeeding, he makes the players perform a ritual where they beseech the gods to return the person to life and have to make rolls to determine if their offerings are looked upon favourably or not. If they fail the skill challenge, the resurrection fails and I don't believe it can be attempted again.
So this is not like 5e where death has no consequences beyond a certain level when you can guarantee a revivify spell. I won't go into detail about how this turns out yet, but just keep that in mind.
Lastly, if you want to see how this moment played out at the table, you can find it in Campaign 1 episode 44 at 4:23:00 but it WILL lead to spoilers beyond this episode if you watch it all the way through.
I saw the title and knew this was coming, but it still hit really hard. The flashbacks made it so much more impactful.
There are high level clerical spells that are capable of bringing the dead back to life. Namely “Raise Dead”, “Resurrection”, and “True Resurrection”. Using Rules As Written, they are very costly to cast (Raise Dead requires a diamond worth 1000 gold, while Resurrection requires a diamond worth 5000 gold, and True Resurrection requires a diamond worth 10,000 gold, iirc).
Matt Mercer, the Dungeon Master for the D&D campaign that this series is based on, has added a house rule so as to make the possibility of character death more than just a minor inconvenience which can be overcome with enough gold. The spell has a certain chance of failing, and the more times a single character has to be resurrected, the greater the chance of spell failure. However, he also made it so that a certain number of people can ask the deceased’s spirit to return to the living, and for each person who asks the chance of failure reduces a certain amount. It makes for some really great role playing in the D&D sessions.
On a personal note, a DM that I played with not too long ago came up with a house rule that Resurrection spells require trading a life for a life. And it must be a life of equal value. So in order to resurrect a 10th level fighter who fell in battle, the cleric would have to sacrifice an NPC of at least 10th level in order for the spell to work.
That’s the beauty of D&D. If you don’t like a certain rule, you can just change it. Sometimes your group house rule even winds up becoming an official rule in a future edition of the game.
Mechanically speaking, Vex was hit with necromantic energy at a low hp, and it dropped her to 0. It was all laughter at the table until it wasn’t.
🔥❤️🔥 trinket works when he can
Grog Strongjaw had a beard while Kratos was still rocking the goatee
I love “unmerciful Percifal!”
I adore you two. You hve such nice, friendly personalities. I like watching your videos.
While what you say about Death Saves is accurate, the problem is that the trap did Necrotic damage. If necrotic damage drops you below 0hp, you skip the saves and go straight to dead dead.
There are 4 spells (revivify, resurrection, raise the dead, and reincarnation) a healer like Pike can use to bring back someone who died depending on how long and how the died. Unfortunately, Vex was killed directly by the Raven Queen, the goddess of death. Unsurprisingly, when you mess with a vestige called the Deathwalker's Ward created by her, its going to live up to its name. Death itself decided whether she would live or die. No magic from a mere mortal can overcome the power of the domain of a god.
Pike was trying to heal Vex when Vax first started climbing up, but she stopped and started crying. I think she's just straight-up dead; and I don't think healers can bring back the dead, necromancers do that.
I think Pike's vision at the beginning was a representation of the Scrying spell, which you can use to see a person or location you are familiar with, as long as they are on the same plane as you. In this case, scrying on Emon to see what is currently happening. In the episode, right after it happens they describe it as 'a vision from the Everlight.'
The twins are half-elves. So is Keyleth, in fact. There are no full elves in Vox Machina.
The Purvon was straight from the Live Play. Mat Mercer (the DM) came up with a cool name but everyone made jokes and clowned on him. Yes that "diluted" crack is in fact that the twins are half-elf.
For those who don't follow, the "diluted" line refers to the fact that the twins are half-elves, not full elves. While their father is an elf (as seen in this episode), their mother was human.
Liam crushing the emotions like the monster he is. End of this episode is brutal.
Vex got hit with necrotic damage in the game. In this case, you don't go down to 0 and get saving throws. You just pass right to death, instant kill.
When Vax climbed out and saw Vex laying there, Pike was trying to heal Vex and nothing was happening.
Yeah there sometimes is a possibility for you to die with no saving throws. In this case yes, she didn’t get saving throws.
To clarify, if you go to 0 and get saving throws, it means you’re unconscious, not dead.
Dead means you need a revivify which is very very expensive.
Here's hoping they do the death of the Goldfish near Whitestone, funniest death of the whole campaign. "We're basically gods"
one thing to note is that nobody is safe from death in this show... even the main characters. the dice don't care about plot armour.
also great reaction. as a long time critter it is great to see this story unfold from a fresh point of view and I think you both are grasping it very well.
and yes the whole 'Diluted' thing is because of their half elven heritage.
In the case of this particular trap they encountered with the amount of necrotic damage she took, she skipped the death saving throws and is dead dead.
Yeah Vax and Vex’s mom is a human! Also there are different levels of resurrection spells available to clerics and some other classes in DnD. But Matt implemented a rule where they have to roll to see if it succeeds or not instead of making it automatic. Plus there are components and other aspects that make those kinds of spells more difficult to access. Also important to mention Pike wasn’t actually there in game when this happened, so not sure what kind of role she’ll play in this because of that. Also you guys mentioned how Vax and Trinket will be affected by this death, but I think it’s interesting to look at Percy and his role in this. He found the sarcophagus and egged Vex on. He’s the one who touched the vestige and set off the trap. He’s already burdened by a lot of guilt and this is just going to add to that (whether or not she does come back).
In the live stream the trap was a very powerful one and Laura Bailey, who plays Vex, rolled a 1 (a critical failure) and since the damage she took brought her beyond zero hit points (Hit Points are the amount of damage a character can take before going unconscious and doing death save rolls) it flat out killed killed Vex’alia. Below is a link to a video showing the actual game play and the scene from TLoVM you just watched. ruclips.net/video/0AuHfXwTY1M/видео.html (But I have to say that LoVM switching between the young Vex and Vax flashbacks and the finding and opening of the Champions sarcophagus was superb! It really tugged at the emotions of the audience much more than the gameplay could have.)
The reason why Pike couldn't heal Uriel, where she (and Keyleth and Scanlan) could heal Cassandra and Keyleth is because there's a difference between "mostly dead" and dead. In D&D, when you are reduced to 0 hit points, you aren't actually dead-dead. You have a chance to hang on. You make death saving rolls, and if you succeed 3 times, you stabilize. If you fail 3 times, you die. If you take more damage, that goes down as 2 failed saving rolls, bringing you closer to death. However, you can be instantly killed in a couple ways. Certain spells will insta-kill if you hit 0hp from the damage of it - spells that are specifically dealing in death, like Power Word Kill, for example. Also, if you take enough damage to bring your hp to negative of your max health, you insta-die. So if your max HP is 105, and you take 105 damage after your HP is at 0, you die. Civilians tend not to be as hearty as adventurers, which means that his HP was probably pretty low. Your average level one adventurer only has maybe 10HP max. So if he took 20 points of damage (which an ancient dragon would easily be able to do that with its attack), he's just dead.
There are two main spells for bringing someone back from the dead. First is a spell called Revivify, which requires 300 gold worth of diamonds. It looks like they're taking some liberties with this in the show - Keyleth and Vax both using the mix of dirt, herbs, and spit for example. This is a limited one. In the game, you have a minute to cast it after someone falls to 0. I'm wondering if they will change that so that this only works on mostly dead, because we see Pike trying to heal at the end of the episode, but it doesn't work. In which case, the only way to bring someone back is a Resurrection spell. That is high level magic, and requires 10,000 gold worth of diamonds. It's a 7th level spell, so Pike wouldn't have had it until she was level 13. In the game, that doesn't happen until episode 58, which would put it somewhere towards the middle to end of this season.
Yep that's how Vex died, I know a lot of people love Laura's second character more but Vex was a great character and I was sad when she died to that trap.
I did love the effect that it had on Vax's story going forwards though.
Thordak is a pretty good name, but my favorite is Vermithrax Pejorative; translated from Latin it means "The Wyrm of Thrace that makes things Worse". He's from a 1981 movie called "Dragonslayer" and it's actually a Disney/Paramount movie.
The evil sword is named Craven Edge
Remember that this isn't entirely a scripted story. While some creative liberties are taken here and there, the major story beats come from a live D&D campaign which itself doesn't necessarily adhere to the "rules" of storytelling. In this case, one PC (Percy's player) stated he was touching the loot before they could search for traps, and though he succeeded on his saving throw tonget out of the way of the trap, Vex's player rolled a natural 1 and didn't. This was literally a story beat determined by the players fooling around and a really bad die roll ... and was one of the more dramatic moments in campaign 1. And that's part of why stories like this can be so entertaining, because things like this can happen in them.
But yeah, Vex is dead. Like dead dead. As in she got hit by an instant death spell trap guarding the tomb of the champion of the GODDESS OF DEATH in one of her temples kind of dead.
Percy technically set off the trap 👀👀 i'm excited for percy guilt (provided they go that direction I'VE no idea😂😂)
Percy was thinking with his lower head there. If your expert trap finder says don't touch anything - DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING!
In the streamed game, Vex, Trinket, and Percy needed to make Dexterity Saving Throws. Vex rolled a Nat 1, Trinket rolled low as well, and I think Percy rolled a 21 [plus modifiers]
Matt Mercer [DM]: [To Percy] As you reach out and grab for the armor, as your fingers touch it, there's this vibrations and it seems like the shadows, the nearby shadows in the corners, seem to reach up towards your hands. You pull back in time, [To Vex and Trinket] but you and Trinket notice a little too late as there's a burst of death. A burst of death energy bursts out for a ten-foot radiusaround the entire sarcophagus. [To Percy] You avoid it. [To Vex and Trinket] Both you and Trinket suffer 58 points of Necrotic Damage.
Laura Baily [Vex'ahlia]: I'm unconcious. Trinket--
Matt Mercer [DM]: [To Vex] Does that bring you below zero?
Laura Baily [Vex'ahlia]: ...Yeah
Matt Mercer [DM]:Vex's body falls and hits the stonework, and you look over as you see her eyes stare up, the last bit of air escaping from her lungs as the life drips out of her form.
This is what happened at the table during their streams and I just wrote it down and for you people to read and ponder. I'm not much versed with the rules of DnD, but I think, if I remember correctly, Damaging you to zero makes you unconsious and unable to function, a player has then to make 3 Death Saves. 3 success' means your back in the fight, and 3 loss' means that you die permanently.
Excess damage once health goes to zero gets carried over towards the Death Saves. And the number of lost Death Saves depends on how high the inflicted or excess damage is, I think.
I do not have full context, so I do not know if she was low after the fight with the fish people, but the damage was high enough to warrant a 3 consecutive loss on the Death Saving throw.
There was a mini boss fight right before the trap (which we catch a glimpse of in the trailer, so it's likely happening to wherever Zahra and Kash went, most likely happening next episode) that had her low on HP. Also to clarify the excess damage you take in the initial attack doesn't affect any death saves. Taking additional hits does, but not the immediate hit. The danger comes from if you reach your HP max but in negatives that will 1 hit kill you. For example if you have 50 HP and you take 100 points of damage, there goes your 50 to bring you to zero and thus make you unconcious and the extra 50 matches your max, effectively killing you immediately due to how heavy of a hit you just took. You won't ever be in negative HP, just if the excess damage you take matches your max health.
This was straight death in dnd you can revive but i think next episode it will be dealt with also in the campaign pike wasn't there but zahra and kash were
Going on what happened in the DnD game, that was a necrotic blast and it borught Vex to bellow 0; that means instant death, no saving throws no nothing. So she gone gone
You are spot on Vex and Vax are both half-elves. They initially grewup with their human mother but were taken to the Eleven city by their father when they were young kids where they were discriminated against for being only half-elven. Fun Fact Keyleth is also a half-elf but in the Ashari tribes they are not discriminated against
In game Laura rolled REALLY BAD on her save(Natural 1) so she just instantly got got by the magic. I love your reactions and thoughts!
That and it's an effect that instant kills if it knocks you to 0hp. Like disintegrate.
--They ARE half elf. Later in the campign, they have a "reconecting with dad" mini-arc.
You got it right, the twins are half elven, hence the father's insult.
Vex got a crit fail on her dex save against that trap. There were no saving throws, she's dead. Don't mess with the champion for the goddess of Death
Lore Dump for anyone who wants to read.
Exandria History, Topic: The Calamity
The Calamity, which led to the creation of the Vestiges of Divergence, was a centuries long war between the gods that ended over 800 years before the start of the series. The Calamity began during the Second Age of Exandria known as the Age of Arcanum, when mortals pushed the limits of magic to the extremes in an effort to challenge the gods themselves. The Matron of Ravens is a Unique figure as her actions led to the end of the Age of Arcanum and the Calamity itself. The Matron was at one point a mortal mage, but she somehow figured out how to achieve godhood and subsequently replaced the former god of death, who’s name has been long since forgotten. Her ascension to godhood led many mages to attempt the same. One mage, Vespin Chloras, sought to achieve godhood with the assistance of the imprisoned Betrayer Gods. Freeing the Betrayers from their prisons led to the Calamity as the Prime Deities came to the aid of their creations. After centuries of fighting, and two-thirds of Exandria’s population killed and the world forever altered physically, The Betrayer Gods were defeated and sealed away again. After the all the destruction came the Divergence. Realizing their influence and presence on the Prime Material Plane should be limited, the Prime Deities constructed the Divine Gate, a barrier between themselves and the world. In, perhaps naive, hope that it would bring the people of Exandria some measure of peace.
I'm not a Critter but I have had some stuff spoiled for me, so I won't comment too much on what I think happened to Vex. But as a former role-player, two things jumped out about this episode. One: this wasn't a Grog dungeon. Grog is great when there are a lot of monsters to fight. But a dungeon that doesn't have a lot of battles, but plenty of traps is probably super frustrating for someone like Grog. I've DMed trap heavy dungeons on hack and slay type players and they hate those.
2nd, the trap at the end of the episode reminds me of one particularly infamous dungeon, the Tomb of Horrors. That dungeon was loaded with a lot of instakill traps that were designed to screw with players' heads. Tomb of Horrors is a terrible dungeon to run in a campaign, unless you let your friends make completely expendable characters and run it just to see how far they would go. But a sarcophagus with a skeleton wearing an artifact guarded by death magic feels very on brand with ToH.
I was one of the 88,887 who backed the Kickstarter that brought us season 1 (Critters kick the sh1t out of everything) and I ask fellow Critters; how much would you pledge to a Kickstarter to do a Mighty Nein toon? I bet we could beat the 11.3 million we did for tis one. 😁
because they started with pathfinder and moved over to DND when they started streaming, i think crit role play with more intricate death rules than vanilla DND. resurrections do not automatically succeed and the saving throw gets harder and harder for each successive time you come back. it adds a lot of jeopardy when a character dies (and costs at least 300 gold in diamond)
The ritual that Matt made is a homebrew one. So it's not a thing that is a vestige from when they were in Pathfinder. It was a ritual that Matt decided to make because he wanted death to have more meaning and be more difficult to fix and to kinda punish when a character does fully die. Because each time they die and the ritual is completed to bring them back the DC for the ritual increases so it's harder and harder to bring their soul back to their body each time they fully die. Which again makes death mean more if there is a chance that the ritual can fail. And it absolutely can.
Someone needs to cover that ending piano piece asap