Benchmarking the ASUS RTX 4080 and Explaining the Hate
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- Опубликовано: 19 ноя 2024
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Intro and Outro Music: "Earth Bound" by Slynk
Other Music: "Lively" & "FollowHer" by Zeeky Beats
Edited by Autumn
I'm on a 1070 Ti. I paid 700 CAD. Currently 3070 TI FE's are in stock for 899 CAD. 4070 Ti's are in stock for 1300 CAD. In three generations my class of GPU has almost doubled in price. I have the money, it's time to upgrade, but I'm refusing on principle. I won't reward this level of greed. I'd rather keep trudging with my 1070 Ti and buy a PS5 for newer FPS titles.
My 1070 is already old enough to go to school. Wanted to upgrade now but I won't reward them either and vote with my wallet!
Sitting on my 1660super I got for $250 at launch- gonna see just how far I can push it unless a really compelling card comes out for price v perf
Hats off to you all. No reward for greed!
The RTX 2060 was already faster than a GTX 1070 Ti. The RTX 3070 Ti is faster than a RTX 2080 Susi/Ti. So if you like to compare you performance level, you can not do it to a card named like your ones. In every new generation names change, the companies just try to keep them the same that customers have an easier way to understand the differences. Names and GPUs can not compared like you do.
So the grand child of your GTX 2070 Ti is today sth. like a RX 6600 or less powerful (3050 may be) and this would surpace the card exceptionally. The 6600 cost about 450 CDN$.
Furthermore inflation. Your 700 CDN$ (the 1070 Ti was released in 2017) is in today‘s money about 820 CDN$ (if you just use mixed inflation, if you use electronic devices only it would be even more) as I checked at the Bank of Canada. For 760-800 CDN§ (just checked Newegg CDN) you can buy a RX 6800 which blows every 3070 out of the water :)
So not all is bad. If you do not need that much power, just buy at the GPU tier you like and be happy; nobody (no consumer) has to spend 1000 CDN$ or more for a great gaming experience, especially as the RX 6800 is in stock in Canada.
Btw combine it even better, buy a Xbox Series S and a „new“ GPU, fun in both worlds.
Cheers @twiggsherman3641 mate, stay healthy in 2023
Pepe
Used market if you got one is to go to.
It's telling that there are multiple 4080 models in stock *everywhere*... while 4090 and 7900 XTX are out of stock everywhere and scalped with like 20-40% markup.
I feel like the 4080 will have to settle in closer to the $1000 mark before people will bite.
I agree, $1,000 with availability would entice me some.
I felt the same as a 6800 XT user, and then in a fit of "we only live once" and missing my RT performance greatly, I picked up this exact card for $1399. And you know what? I love it. It does everything I really wanted to far at 3440x1440, so I kind of feel like it was worth it even thought the price is ridiculous? At the end of the day it's a really good card I think which ONLY has a pricing drawback at the moment. I'm frankly glad I didn't buy the 7900 XTX instead like I was thinking of doing now that we've seen the RT performance, because I really enjoy RT and think it's important. BTW...hope you're recovering well, fellow Jeff!
AMD cards are “out of stock” because there is no inventory 😂😂😂
Why this comment says "2 days ago" ?
@@elektronischermeister Jeff is a shape shifter that moves through space and time at will.
I hate to say it, but this is the first Wendel video I've seen in a few years. And holy crap, you look amazing dude! Super awesome to see you making positive changes to your health. Keep it up man.
No more m&m on the desk?
@UnrealStutterEngine
oh yeah, that thing. Had completely forgot about that and here you come along 🙄
A testament to how great Wendell and Level1techs crew is
So glad I found you. Didn't realize you had made your own channel. Been a while since the TS days. Hope you've been doing well since
Oohhh you've been missing out. But better lave than never - welcome back!
Coming from a 20 series card, I saw the 4080 to have great value. Its 30% faster than a 3080ti for just a few more Benjamin's. In fact, I tried the 3080ti, and I wasn't happy with minimal improvement over the 20 series. Still very happy with the 4080, no regrets.
Has the same vram as midrange card I hope that does not become an iusse in the future like with the 3070.
$1400 dollars?!?! That is absurd. When the GTX 1080 came out (still using it), I was able to catch one for $599 (yes, on sale after waiting a bit), and didn't think I would see prices like today's GPUs come at. But, back then, it didn't cost almost $20 for a meal for two at fast food, either. Amazing how things change.
Well since you are on a gpu from 2016 you have had the money to upgrade and the 30 series would have been your move 2yrs ago
Bought a 2070 a year after release. Thought that was way too expensive. Prices as they are now? Can't see myself buying a new gpu or Computer(6700k,) unless forced too. Bought a ps5 at non scalping prices, I'm happy with that.
@gmu_alum08 And most people agreed that was a and insane and dumb price, yet people still bought them. And people gobbled up the 4090's and as soon as the 30 series stock runs out, the 4080 and 4070 will sell at these insane prices. I juts finally opted out of this pricing stupidity so I bought a PS-5.
@gmu_alum08 well only idiots bought from scalpers
@@sprocket5526 because people were given a couple thousands of dollars while staying at home and having nothing to do, having a really nice gaming/productive pc was a huge deal, when a new game released during that time people had NO PATIENCE because they were so bored staying inside doing the same thing every single day, so all that combined they got the best gpus possible. no one is buying now.
I dunno, I think Nvidia deserves the hate. I've only bought Nvidia for years all the way back to the original 8800 and many others in the years since. The 3090 was my last. I bought my first AMD card two days ago for my latest Linux build.
You know the 8800 ultra was $800 in 2006 ($1200 today, 4080 price) 8800gtx was $600 ($900 today) cutting edge GPUs have always been expensive.
I've only had nVidia cards through EVGA- still on my 1660super SC, generally disgusted and disappointed with how they are pricing and how they treat their board partners- when I do upgrade, I'll be shopping around this time
@@kcfreetime Picking 2 arbitrary time points does nothing to illustrate a trend. Computer hardware didn't have anything close to the same scale back in 2006 so everything computer related was expensive, not just GPUs. Then prices came down, by a lot. And now, despite manufacturing techniques getting a lot better and far less need for the tippiest top performance out of a gaming rig, prices are going up again, far more than inflation.
AMD are ripping off consumers as much as they can as well, they're just pricing lower since they know their product is worse - yeah in pure raster performance the 7900xtx matches or beats the 4080, but it's so far behind in RT and productivity, and lacks an ML upscaling competitor to DLSS, so the 7900xtx is really of comparible value to the 4080 (not mentioning the far better Nvidia reference design this gen).
The 7900xts value is dreadful compared to even the 7900xtx as well.
AMD aren't your friend, and if they had the better product, they would be pricing it exactly the same as Nvidia are now.
Genuinely the only appropriately priced card this gen is the 4090 (like a 7% price increase over 3090 for a massive increase in performance).
@@supersnail5000 I did not buy a 7900, not even a 6800. The card I bought was under $200 and I know for sure the Linux drivers will work with it. I'm almost thankful I did because the vapor chamber issues I'm hearing on the AMD flagship cards doesn't leave me a good taste in anyone's mouth.
It's all about highlighting the value you get when you pay the prices that you actually see in the wild. Who wants to pay almost all of a 4090 price and not get performance anywhere near a 4090? On the flipside, AMD is being much more agressive with the value. Since 60% of people don't even turn on raytracing (according to an LTT poll), why pay $1500 for ray tracing you don't use when you can spend 2/3 the price and get nearly the same value as far as raster performance goes?
Anyone else remember the days of when a $500 gpu was crazy expensive. The ATI X1950XTs were $250US when I got them. A GTX780 was $500 at the time I purchased. Bought a rtx 3090 for $700 used last year. Glad I did. Ill be skipping this gen and from the looks of it, a lot of others will be doing the same.
I REMEMBER.
Does anyone remember when eggs were 10 cents and close to a dollar for a dozen. Now they are 7-8 dollars for the same 12 eggs? I do.
Luckily, a gpu isn’t a necessity. Also luckily, If you do happen to be privileged enough to buy something for your computer that’s not a necessity. You only need one every once in 3 to 4 years.
Yeah I remember. New cars used to cost $15,000 back then too.. now not so much. Must be all NVIDIAs fault 🙄
@@poison7512 moronic take, in 2010 average new car price was $29k. adjusting for inflation modern GPUs are still a rip. I got a 1080ti for $200, by comparison
That’s right the rx6600 at $240 will give gamers a great experience. Thanks for a great review
Spending $1200 on a --80 tier card that's almost twice the MSRP of the last one ($650) is what's putting so many people off.
We know the card doesn't need to cost $1200 for Nvidia to make a VERY tidy profit.
In the wake of the crypto boom and the wild GPU market of ~2021, it's clear that Nvidia are now just doing all the profiteering for themselves.
"People were paying $2000 on ebay for a card we said was $650?
Holy shit, let's double that MSRP next time around!"
@@catlikehana I believe 40 series are priced this way so Nvidia can sell rest of 30 series at full price. This also allows them to arbitrage the 40 series prices during this time frame.
They will then drop 40 series to price point needed to sell them which is likely that 900 ish range for a 4080.
This also tells you Nvidia doesn't see AMD as major threat, at this point.
if NVIDIA sold it for $650 people like you would be buying scalping prices at 1200
For the Year End Write Off! 🙂
15:24 this is the reason why people gets mad because average gamers want a mid tier graphic card at a maximum, but both NVIDIA/AMD follow along the same plan to try to force gamers (and content creators) into expensive GPU tiers cards. That is why 15:40 makes a lot of sense for people to get mad at them. Right now both of them are holding the AV1 transition which should be greatly beneficial for both consumers and suppliers of content, and infrastructure.
If AV1 is needed on a GPU for less, buy an Intel card.
Just buy the old ones
@@wargamingrefugee9065 Is not that easy as the new Intel GPU have poor drivers specially for old graphic APIs so saying go Intel is an over simplification.
@@maegnificant Old ones only have the AV1 decoders at maximum, no AV1 encoders.
@@as10046 i know that, but most people don't need this at all.
The RTX 4080 is an equivalent bin of silicon to the RTX 3070ti, the RTX 4070ti being an equivalent bin to the RTX 3060ti but with a smaller bus. Its the major reason why the gap on the RTX 4090 to 3090 is so much larger than the other two 4000 card's previous tier.
@@smacktard6051 He's talking about the binning *scheme* , not the literal same "bins" containing the previous generation chips...
@smacktard no, it's not the same... Look it up.
@@Billy_bSLAYER I assume you're referring to the number of CUDA cores and the memory bus width? I know for the latter the 4070ti has a pathetic 192-bit bus instead of a 256-bit bus on something like the 1070ti.
I'll add my own frustration at the 4070ti as well, it's double the price of the 1070ti, with the memory bus from xx60 class cards, and it's higher than the MSRP of the GTX 1080Ti, and if you really want to obsess over inflation even though it's NVIDIA's job to provide good-value products it's about the same MSRP as the GTX 1080Ti.
@@jamesbuckwas6575 @J S They don't owe us anything... Jesus they are a company in business to make money. The GTX 280 had a 512bit bus....does that make the any current 80 class card without it pathetic.... GTFO.
LOLOLOL you should probably learn stuff first THEN comment.
Last week I got a new micro center prebuilt (g471) with a 4080 and lordy im loving it! Playing cyberpunk on my TV,4k,max settings, all RT on ultra (DLSS3 on of coarse), and getting a butter smooth 110+FPS. 'Tis a thing of beauty
Excellent editing, Autumn!
I've had a 4080 for about a month now and its been great. yea I could have bought the 4090 but still too many recent reports of melted connectors for my liking, and the cheapest model (FE) was never in stock.
TPU have demosntrated the 7900XTX reference card is 6% faster than the 4080. If you have an AIB card, it is moving to 11% without an OC, and around 17% with an OC... for 1100$.
Not in everything and it destroys the 7900 XTX in ray tracing. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I agree the pricing should be 1100 or 1000. Anything over the current MSRP is a rip off. However i will say i got mine for 1200 and it overclocks to 3015 mhz with only a 50 MV increase on air and that is in gaming. Plus my memory is running at +1000 mhz. Also this is with 61 c temp and auto fan curve. I have the Zotac Trinity cooler. It can make sense for certain work loads and games. But i agree it is overpriced.
@Transistor Jump I mean i would say 900 to adjust for inflation, from 700 for the 3080 and the 4080 at 900 i think would be reasonable. I agree everything is expensive, but this generation they just marked up the price alot, mostly so they can justify selling the 30 series cards without losing a ton of money on them. I mean 3080's new are over 800 some even 900 dollars...
@Transistor Jump I found this kind of statements completely emotional, not rooted on objective reality. Fact, I was able to bought an XFX Merc 310 7900 XTX at MSRP a week after release, keep my case and 1250w power supply with 4 pcie 8 pin to the 3 in the card.
There is not a single 4080 to have at that level of gaming performance and build quality as of today, new year 2023. Let's add case, power supply and cabling to the equation of many potential buyers...
Emotion, a lot of people think AMD are subpart cards that can only be priced at 60% of Nvidia to even consider any attention, so even if is objectively 7% to 10% better than 4080, it should be priced at half or 60%
Look FOMO is a real thing that drives a lot of people decisions regardless of the fact than 90+% of gamers will only actually play games with their Gpus, will test RT for a few minutes a go back to rasterization for the double FPS.
I'd your main use case is something else, you buy whatever fits thosr goals and budgets, but for gamming, is just a no.
I been an Nvidia customer for 20+ years, hold my 1080 Ti for 4 years, but the value is just not there with current generation GPU and in general destroy the value proposition of their previous generation too.
@Transistor Jump I mean die size is not the only aspect of making silicon. But sure of you want to boil it down to such simple ideas. Process size and increase in manufacturing costs are also a factor. You can be "right" all you want. I am not saying Nvidia isn't over charging for this product, but to say inflation is not a factor is just not true. I hate one dimensional arguments like that.
It has to be purchasable though.. Over here in the Netherlands there is no 7900XTX to be found, just 1 on Amazon for a whopping 1400 euros, which is entry level AIB 4080 level
I bought a 4080 for 1,200 retail.
The biggest reason was that I was tired of the mind-games, and just wasting time on the whole ordeal. I upgraded my computer to an i5-3600k when that came out, and was looking for a new GPU to pair with it. I had heard about the black friday sales, the 30 series market, the up-coming AMD releases ect.
It felt like every week was another "let's see what happens!" I read stories about how Newegg's customer service has been shit lately, and how scalpers have made getting cards much more challenging.
I saw a 4080 at a local retailer (Best Buy), and was like fuck it, I can get my warranty, I can walk in store in person if I have any issues. And I know I won't get a box of rocks, or deal with any drama if something goes wrong.
On top of that, I knew I was getting a decent card. Notably better than any 30 series card, and having seen the AMD cards come out, they were comparable, but fell behind in Ray Tracing, which I was expecting to use in games like Cyberpunk and Hitman 3. And for the record, Ray Traced reflections are absolutely amazing, and I love them. I've had the 4080 for a week, and seeing sooo many reflections in Hitman and Cyberpunk has been a notable enhancement.
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I think at the end of the day, value matters, but sometimes paying extra to avoid drama is important too. It's why we pay extra for speedy shipping, or pay service fees so things just work. Hell, half the reason Steam became as popular as it has, was because it made things easier. So I justified paying extra, because I just wanted it now, and not deal with it. I got it locally. No scalpers, no drama.
It probably also helps that I wasn't on a fixed income. Every week I waited was another week I could add another 500 disposable income to my "hobby fund." Waiting for me means just having more money to spend, and eventually I just have enough money to overpay. I would have bought the 4090 for 1,600 if it were there, but I'm happy with the 4080.
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If the price of the 4080 were to drop by 500 dollars tomorrow, I wouldn't be mad. I accept the ticket price I paid. If I didn't, I wouldn't have paid it.
Rather, I hope the price does come down. I'd love to see gaming become more accessible to more people. I'd love to see Intel do better at competition since apparently AMD is really struggling with this.
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We're in a strange world where all of a sudden there's more buyers than sellers, and that's created some weird situations. It's weird that I can't just buy a GPU like I can a new iPhone or a gallon of milk.
Despite the economy, there's still an awful lot of people with disposable incomes, and more people than products. Nvidia needs more competition, the market is crying for it. But it won't happen anytime soon.
So I think it's best to just accept we're in a dark age right now, and hopefully things will get better. There are golden ages of gaming. We're just not in one right now.
cool story bro, no one reading that essay
@@gely_ you don't have to read it. I wrote it for me ^.^
When you do things you enjoy, it never feels like work.
Not to say you aren't cool or anything Wendell, but you're really cute in this video. lol
Then again I've always been biased towards you. Seeing you grow through the years on youtube and develop such a solid presentation personality. You keep improving.
managed to finally get a backorder of the 4090, never would consider the 4080 at these prices
@@B1u35ky the 4090 is way faster (25% on average according to pcworld) and is actually more power efficient 🤣
@@B1u35ky its the best gaming gpu so its what i want? also the 4080 is 1100-1200 and the 4090 is 1600. thats 25-30% more money for 25% more performance. its worth it for me, especially since i bought mine for 1500 brand new.
To be fair most people don't think of you as a tech reviewer, more of a software guy and explaining and delving into that, so I don't think it's about your size, it's about your focus. If you were hardware review focused I'm sure you would get seeded all the hardware.
AD104 is smaller than GA104 yet is double in price.
AD104 is half the size of TU104 but it's cooler is twice as big.
I am starting to believe that people likes to buy big things just for the sake of it.
Even AMD RX 6500 XT has why too big cooler for what they are, and that is on purpose to make you think that you have a very powerful card because the cooler has two fans and it is a 2 slot cooler design.
It gets really annoying to work with as an SI, reasonably sized parts are getting harder to find.
@@shadyweaverdoes anybody make a singe slot consumer graphics card anymore?
I imagine at least some of it is to save costs on tooling required for both the PCB print and the coolers. Potentially cheaper to just reuse the design from the 3060 on the 3050 (for example) than having to design and manufacture a whole new design. I'm sure marketing is also a part of this like you suggested, but there are definitely multiple factors in play.
It sucks for anyone wanting to make a decently powered SFF PC because you basically have to water cool the thing with a custom loop just to move the size around.
@@sinesaii Only at a performance class which current gen integrated graphics can match, unfortunately.
Still has much more Cuda-Cores...
I hope you don't mind me saying
I've been following you and appreciating you for probably 8 years now. Since your "beard" days.
You are looking really good
If you are working on it, we'll done. If not, well done on good filming techniques
The RTX day of the tentacle reference had me wanting to replay the game, loved that game growing up
I picked up a 6700xt for $380 after tax and shipping during Cyber Monday. It's not bottom of the barrel budget card performance, but I'm also not having to spend more than the price of a game console or semi-decent laptop on a GPU. At this point, I just hope people buy AMD so that NVidia is forced to move prices for its inventory down, and that Intel gets ARC to a state to where in 4-6 years I have an actual decent mid-range card at a reasonable price I can upgrade to.
Buy the AMD card that has cooler issues which the manufacturer refuses to akcnowledge? And which isn't even in stock, or when it is, somehow costs more than the 4080. I don't think so.
@@norfabatonas they werent talking about the XTX
@@norfabatonas um, the 6700xt costs $400 on Newegg and Amazon right now? And doesn't have any cooler issues? I don't think you really read what I wrote before posting...
@@norfabatonas they already did acknowledged it officially and it is valid only for their reference model
There are 3070s on eBay for like $350 lol
I’m rocking a 290x. Sounds like a vacuum cleaner under load but I’d rather keep it than shell out to corporate greed.
In the audio world some plugin manufacturers are beginning to port the calculations onto the GPU, which makes lots of sense give that it is parallel compute instead of serial and the most DAW’s don’t really use much of the GPU power that they have on hand, the question I have for you if you are able to answer is which type of GPU is the most suitable for this processing?workstation cards maybe? But they can be very expensive and loud. What’s your take on this development ? Many thanks for your great work, hope you have the time and energy to look into this! Murray.
It really depends on what the plugins use and what requirements they have.
If its just cuda you can run a gaming card no problem probably, unless they have some insane memory requirement or things like that.
What plugins are you looking at?
Professional cards generally only make sense if gaming cards do not offer the density you need or the specs you need.
Or if the time savings they offer in the processing directly translate into a monetary value. Like if you can simply do 30% more work in a day and increase income 30% if the card is 30% faster.
That makes no sense. You could run an entire DAW on a Raspberry Pi, with room for plugins AND the Operating system.
Hell, a full size polyphonic synth is doing everything with a microcontroller.
You don't need compute power for an audio plugin. It's just simple transforms.
@@Prophes0r then why does my 5950x start having problems with more than 4 convolution reverbs? If you know the solution then you could become very rich with it, would be very interested in it for one….
@@murraywebster1228 i don't know the software, but if you point me to the plugins you are looking at i am sure i can give you an idea of what you'd need to bennefit from a discrete gpu solution.
@@williamtopping I only use AMD for graphics, workstation class….
For the photoshop/premiere, did you switch over Nvidia to the studio drivers? Or did you leave in the Game Ready drivers?
The last sanely priced cards were 900 series. The 10 series got their prices jacked up midway due to mining.
Actually it is a good strategy to review late after the dust settles.
actually it is not, there is a reason if everyone drops the review as fast as they can. They have telemetry and can see how the video performs.
Not for views
10 years ago I didn't even pay $1000 for my FirePro W7000 workstation card. High end gaming cards were $400-500 at the time.
And that could handle something like 6 1080 monitors and had substantial double precision gpu compute for number crunching. Still is pretty good hardware, I only made a side step 3 years ago because AMD really screwed up the Linux drivers for those first generation GCN cards. Of course a side step after 7 years was only $150.
This was totally the best conclusion of all youtubers out there
The nvidia pricing is to high, there $100-$150 over each card model
Nvidia can still make profit yet me affordable and accessibe to more people
@Transistor Jump no $400 is ridiculous
@Transistor Jump Probibly, i could ask my dad, he retired from nvidia last year
Upgrading from an evga 2070 (circa 2018) and I was a bit miffed at the total price, but when I bought my 2070 ($640, microcenter) the 1080 Ti was going for 800.
I'm VERY VERY happy with the 4080
SUCKER!
@@Charlie-zj3hw Am I though? I didn't buy it from a reseller, nor did I buy it for resale. I also bought it before the new tariffs kicked in. I built a whole new PC and bought a G7 monitor just for this. Gaming is really an experience now
It wasn't that long ago that PC gaming was happy to be at a constant 60 FPS at 1080p. Now consoles are pushing that and well beyond for half, or in this case, almost a third of the price of his single card.
I like chasing performance and ever higher resolutions and frame rates as much as anyone else, but this generation is really showing me that dropping a few settings or not being locked at 144hz is far from the end of the world when the games are fun.
And to build up on that point, Games that might experience these performance issues are usually far from fun.
The GPU market is turning into the audio market. 99% of people are more than happy listening to 160kbps AAC audio streams on like, $60 ear buds. And then there's the 1% that are dropping thousands of dollars on audio equipment and listening to 900kbps FLACs.
Otherwise, no Nvidia. It doesn't matter how poorly you price your current products, I'm not going to pay MSRP or higher for 2+ year old technology.
@Transistor Jump GPUs are getting closer to that every generation now. Just look at how the RX 580 and GTX 1060 refuse to die, and can still comfortably run almost every game. I think once the average person can get RTX 3080 tier performance for ~300 dollars, gaming sales are going to fall off a cliff. Most people will only need to upgrade every ~6-8 years, or if their dGPU/laptop stops working outright.
If DLSS, FSR, or other upscaling tech get even better, all bets are off. People might be running RTX 3080s all the way into the 2030s.
@Transistor Jump That's how the overwhelming vast majority of players are playing games lol. They're on PS4, Xbox One, Switch, or have a PC with something weaker than a GTX 1660. If you cant handle playing games like that, it's a personal problem and you're in the minority(and Nvidia will gladly take advantage of that by selling you an XX70 card for $900)
Minimum requirements are going to start going up as we get deeper into the 9th gen, but they're not going to go up as much as you might expect. It'll probably settle around the GTX 1660 to RTX 2060 level of performance for the rest of the 9th gen and the first part of the 10th.
Developers want to make themselves money, not Nvidia. They want their games playable on as many screens as possible.
Loved the clip from the "get caught up with BSG" episode. Thank you for taking your time to include it! 😂
There is no hate, it's just too expansive. It's a good card.
Just bad prices, yep.
There is a LOT of hate. The performance is irrelevant.
If Honda set the price for a base model Civic at $85k, people would literally attack them. It wouldn't matter if it was 4x as fast as last-year's model.
People need cards they can afford. We need $150/$300/$450 cards. Anything above that is PURE luxury.
Most people have gaming machines that cost less than $1100 total. That's for everything. Monitor/keyboard/etc.
An $800 "Mid-range" GPU is literally unobtainable for most people. And a $500 "Entry-level" one is still absurd.
@@Prophes0r Of course the performance are relevant, otherwise you would care less about the card, the only problem is the price.
I have 4080 and it’s definitely overpriced. Sure, it’s much better than my older gpu BUT for $1k, it could offer a lot more than it does. I mean, I would still keep mine.. but i just won’t see myself making that mistake again.
Sometimes I wonder how most customers and reviewers would have reacted if they changed the naming: 4090 -> Titan, 4080 -> 4090. I know the now new 4070 Ti would be an odd duck, but it is it anyhow. The RTX Titan was 2.500 US$, the 3090 Ti about 2.000 US$ at release, 3090 was about 1.500 US$ or sth like that.
And what a performance boost.
Furthermore may forget that real nice 1440p gaming does not need such cards, RX 6800 (XT) quite enough or the 3070 Ti, both faster as the 2080 Susi/Ti but many seem to have forgotten that. 2160p gaming ist still over the top regarding the needed hardware resources, though if you need FSR/DLSS anyway, a mid/uppermid/lowerhigh card like is still powerful enough. Steam hardware survey just as hint should be read more often (the GPU companies, too).
In a way the 4090/4080 are so over the top that you even the latest CPUs are sometimes too weak to power them. Now the market needs to adjust below 1000 US$ worldwide, as in many countries the prices are so weirdly high.
Cheers, have fun in 2023 and stay healthy
Pepe
Yes the 2080ti is a excellent choice for bang for buck today people sleep on 2080ti you can basically have a 3070ti performance in 1440p gaming
Yeah, the 4080 is actually a great card, it's just $400 too expensive. If i do ever get one, i won't pay a cent over $799
You be waiting a very very long time
What I think is happening is that Nvidia is selling the chips that cost them a couple hundred dollars to make (in the worst of cases) for like 80% of the entire card's MSRP to board partners, so if they try to sell their cards at MSRP they'd have skimp on the quality on everything else, from the PCB to the fans, and we know most partners don't wanna get egg on their faces for doing that...
Imagine if someone was making a car that supposed to be sold for $12000, but the company that makes the engines for said car for $9500k, so you could either make an extremely shitty car that barely drives around that engine and sell it for $12000 and get morsels of profit, or you could make a decent car and sell it for $14000 and get slightly more money.
I just invested in a RTX 4080 for 1700 USD and sold my "older" 3080 Ti for 1100 USD. (This is what the prices are in my country)
I am gaming on a 3840x1600 monitor. And I can say that RTX 4080 feel like it was specially made/designed for this resolution. It absolutely nails it.
My CPU is a i9-9900K running @ stock speeds.
Just tested Rise of the tombraider, and Im getting more than 200+ FPS with everything on ultra including RayTracing.
On PUBG and other games, i set FPS limiter... I dont want the refresh to go above the 144hz G-sync capabilities of my monitor.
Now, considering that I sold my 3080Ti and paid "only" 600 ekstra to get my RTX4080, I am very happy with this deal.
The way I am looking at it: --> basically, I already had the 3080Ti so the money was "lost" either way... So it all depends how you look at it.
For all I care I bought the RTX 4080 for 600USD, it was a steal! And the card is a beast. Dont get me wrong, the 3080Ti is still very good as well! But RTX 4080 is a different kind of "ice-cold" and chill beast!
The inlet fans of computer chassis is locked to max 40% while gaming as opposed to 60% with the 3080Ti.
And the RTX 4090... it costs 2400USD here... And some call it a better buy, due to performance ?... At that price ? naah...
if you already can sell a "older 30 series card".. and get a RTX4080 for 5-700 USD more, you should be happy!
By the way.. spending 2400 on a 4090 ?? (that would be 1300 USD extra after selling 3080Ti... and that is very close to a retarded deal)
Wendell do you still do some sysadmin stuffs on the side outside of hardware reviews ? have you played with the latest Windows Server / Linux cloud features ? I mean automating stuffs with powershell/bash running some kubernetes clusters or ansible/terraform or devops stuffs ? just curious of what your doing in your freetime.. im thinking about going back to programming
Thanks for the visual of putting it into an mATX. It's ridiculous. My case is mATX and no way it would fit. Glad to have got a 3080ti
I zoned out and then heard track and the gods in the same sentence and came snapped back to reality and it’s because of the octopon box I love it
SO SAY WE ALL
my zotac trinity oc 4080 was 1400$ after tax and shipping.. it sucks in price but it has performance. I usually use gpus for like 6 years or so before upgrading so if it lasts that long it will be fine.
GOOD TO SEE A HONEST BREAK DOWN OF WHATS REALLY GOING ON
I went from the 3060 to the 4080 MSI Extreme for $1200. I also have the i9 13900k CPU. I’m getting between 250 and 300 fps with everything turned all the way up with DLSS in Modern Warfare II. I’m also playing on 1440p.
I have zero complaints. But the. Again, I went from a 3060 and 11900k setup.
Buy one cry once, lol.
@@drinkoldcoke doesn't matter, still performance and mw2 doesn't have 3 anyways
@@drinkoldcoke if intern it off I'm still getting 220 to 250
@@SPG8989 DLSS 3 absolutely *does* matter because no, that is not "performance" in the way in which we have always used the word in this context.
Anyway, yeah, on as high end a GPU & CPU pairing as this, there's no way in hell I'd be using DLSS of any stripe. If my monitor has 2560x1440 pixels then that's how many I want the game engine churning out too.
@@johnnypopstar i a lot of games i can easily see the blurryness of DLSS, so I barely use it.
I'm hoping to upgrade from my 970. Hearing people get excited over a single gen improvement makes me excited 😆
When I check Newegg for online prices in the US the 7900 xtx is $1149 at its lowest price point while the RTX 4080 is $1229. Both lowest price in stock today. With the real world differential of $80, which would you choose? I’m upgrading from a 1080 (non-ti). Seems like the 4080 would be better since I’m looking for highest quality of ray tracing. Thanks for the video.
Yes. I was in the same boat last week. 4080 all the way all day every day. Also.. BestBuy has 4080 reference cards in stock for $1199 if you can get them to ship to a store local to you.. assuming you're in the US of course..
Day of the Tentacle was the first game I ever played at 4 years old. So happy seeing you mention it!
There's definitely some sort of problem with the 7900 series - I dont think it's what people are expecting with in terms of finewine/general driver updates. There must be some thing at a deeper driver/firmware level which I hope is being sorted out - it does seem that the compute units arent being utilised to their full extent. At present it just seems like RDNA2 with wider bandwidth, i.e. the core changes in the arch arent being utilised. Whilst I did expect strange things from a MCM design (even if it's just the memory component), there's just a bit more going on.
Friend, it's been less than a month…
Honestly at this point Im confident that long term driver support will be good, Its been good for the last few generations and people are just mad for early adopting but have seen significant uplifts in performance as the generation progresses. Im still on vega and ryzen 1 and right now and have an xtx on the way. The only reason im upgrading is to get a few RT cores for rendering and vram the raster performance uplift will be nice too but right now I dont Need to play anything out right now. Really the cpu upgrade is really where im going to see gains. I remember I was kinda regreting geting vega at launch but long term It's been a fucking fantastic card.
@@LucidStrike i know but im stating what seems to be the obvious. If it is not obvious, what Im trying to say is when this gets fixed, it's not going to be a simple 'finewine' driver update boost but it's going to be a major boost. I.e. the 7900xtx will come close to 4090 in rasterisation across all games.
@@sawyerlachance7745 i bet.
AMD RX 7900 XT reference card is, for me, the best one from this new generation.
I am basing my opinion on Linux support and it's reasonably sized cooler.
Agree. Excited to replace my 5700xt. Fits my case, killer card.
And the unfavorable reviews calling it a greedy upsell, made the price actually reasonable. (Or rather the favorable 7900 XTX reviews made the price rise way above MSRP)
@@Slay1337pl Welcome to the Brave New World of 1.000 $ Video Cards.
@@elektronischermeister Yeah, unless I see good price cuts, my 1080ti is comparable to a 3060Ti, so I'll live.
Bought my 4080 reference model at Best Buy with a 10% coupon they had and my rewards came out to 1030$ with tax. No way in hell I would spend anymore then I did preferably 300$ cheaper would have been wonderful. But I don’t think we will see 600$ premium cards anymore unless there used.
On Canada Computers, their are multiples of Gigabyte 4090s sitting in stock for CAD2249=USD1645. Not sure why real price of 4090 in video is USD2800+.
While I agree with most of what you said, I don't agree with how you keep saying $1000 for the XTX vs $1400 for the 4080. It's $1400 only because you chose to buy that model. You can easily find XTX models that also cost 17% over their MSRP or more. Paying MSRP for a 4080 is very doable, unlike for the 4090s. Right now you could get the founders edition or a PNY 4080 for MSRP.
"At 2160p (4K), with Fidelity FX and DLSS disabled, I don't think [Cyberpunk] it's playable, even on the 4090...". What? Just because the average FPS is only 44 FPS? Man, you don't play single player games, right? You didn't play the first Tomb Raider or the Quake 2 on the Voodoo (1) graphics card, at the fabulous resolution of 640X480, on a 14/13" CRT monitor, didn't you? I did, the average FPS was below 44 FPS and, man!, it was so fun! I have an RTX 4090 and, finally!, I'm thinking playing Cyberpunk 2077 at 4K, with all settings at max and with no DLSS, something that was a little paining to do on my previous RTX 3090.
For science!
Hope you feel better soon!
I keep hearing about 3000 series inventory. Where is it? It’s not in Houston Microcenter.
I came from a 1080Ti to the 4080 and I am absolutely jazzed by the performance, and the temps!
My Zotac rarely goes above 55c...
Interested in knowing how much a GPU cooler costs. I have plenty of GPU stock coolers and if you see them side by side a 4080/4090 stock cooler is like double the size (in volume) when compared to a stock 2080ti cooler.
Super glad I picked up the 7900 XTX with 24Gb VRAM instead. 3yr console VRAM was-is not appealing and it's showing on Day 1 playing games like TLOU, SWJS, etc. Maxed Out at Native 4k@60fps... while everyone else waits for patches and hopes for upscaling 😅😂
if 4080's ever end up under 800 bucks, that's when i'll start looking at them lmao, absolutely not worth for 1200
I just purchased a MSI 4090 Suprim X for 1700 bucks. And so far as to what ive read, its one of the higher end 4090 cards. So paying 1700 for a top end 4090, or 1500 for a mid range 4080........id spend the extra 200 bucks.
This guy gets it
the pricing of 3000 series cards is also terrible, i was forced onto Ebay to get some used ones at about a fair price
Also, dude, FFX is not the preferred nomenclature... FSR, please. :) Was waiting on your 4080 thoughts Wendell, better late than never!
my enthusiasm is 0 ,derbauer ovrcloked the 4070 ti. its a dead hobby. i started overclocking in 2000 age 11. new generation will never experience what i did unless their parents are loaded$$$ barrier to entry is out of reach. x oc is almost dead.
i'm 4+ years into this 1080ti, not feeling like my performance is lacking, ray tracing doesn't move me, so ride this till it dies.
I just built a friend a PC with all new parts, besides the GPU. I got a GTX 1080 on eBay for $175 and I was extremely impressed by it. I have a 2060 Super and couldn't tell the difference in game.
I loved my 4080 when I had it; it was a clear upgrade From my 2080ti and there was a huge diff running triple screens for sim racing (3x1440p @ 165 hz). However I had the opportunity to return it for a 4090 and I made the jump because the value proposition is way better. The -90 is even more of a jump (impressiveness) than the 4080 and for not much more. But If I didn't have the chance to return the 4080 I would have been happy with it.
I'd love the 4090 over the 4080. Problem is it's 500-600 CAD higher, and I'm already pushing my build budget to reach a 4080. Lol.
Same, i have the 4080 Zotac Trinity cooler i got for 1200 MSRP direct from them. 3015 mhz on the core on air auto fan curve and +50 MV on the core. Also +1000 mhz on the memory. I usually get 57 to 61 c on the temps and it's really quiet as well. I can overclock more but i just left it at that because i don't have to touch anything. I agree it's overpriced but it's not a terrible card.
I was in the same position. I got a 4080 for $1079, then a week later I got a 4090 for $1439 so it was a no brainier for me. My 4090 FE is a beast and runs super cool especially when I set the PL to 70%. It gets more frames than the 7900 XTX but uses about 150watt less.
I snagged a rog strix 4080 prior to christmas hitting, same as you I was upgrading from a 2080ti and I'm really happy with the performance, it also helps that I snagged an upgrade for my aging 2700x by grabbing an i9 13900k.
i got a 4080 before Christmas at upgrading from a 2070 super. A week later 10+ Zotac 4090s were in stock at Microcenter but I couldn't get myself to return my 4080 and pay a extra $400. This 4080 is already blowing my mind from what my 2070 could do I think ill be happy, plus im only on 1440p I really dont even need this 4080 lol.
You leave BSG-futuristic-space paper outta this!
What mobo, cpu and ram were used.. did i miss that.. curious because I am shopping to match my 7900xtx
I got the PNY XLR8 OC 4080 for $29 more than a reference. Had they had a 4090 in stock when I built my new system I would’ve gotten a 4090, but they don’t exist at msrp. Card stays super cool and super quiet. I have no qualms with it. It was hard to justify paying anymore on another AIB as shit isn’t what it used to be like when I got my 1080 when custom PCB’s were more prevalent
for some reason i thought that the title was a joke about the 4070ti and expecting a 4070ti review
RTX Day of the Tentacle?!
Recently did a playthrough of the remastered version, oh the nostalgia trip. If RTX made it look like your concept that would be awesome!
Actually.. Both Nvidia & AMD keep releasing cards that make their previous releases suddenly not look so bad. The rtx 4080 & 7900xt now doesn't look so bad with the 4070ti release.. 🤔
Haha, the "continue to do something even worse so your previous mistake is ignored" technique. That's how I do my electronics projects.
@@JeffGeerling The weird part is that they're covering each other's mistakes, like the XTX's faulty vapour chamber cooler would have started making the 4080 look a bit better except everyone got distracted by how terrible the 4070Ti's market positioning is
Had to get a 4080 1299 zotac trin at mico center. couldn't see paying 800 more for 4090 online. Have you noticed hotspot being over 95 even though under 300w 98% load, temp shows 60c. Is this normal? My 3080 10gb was never over 76c
95C is how it is these days lol
Could you please give us a source for the amazing "Papers don't have corners and there is more than one god" cut-away? That was one of the funnies things I ever saw on this channel!
Battlestar Galactica
Battlestar Galactica S04E05
pls consider indexing the timeline to navigate around the video
I'm glad I went for the FE version. That thing is a chonker!
it would be wonderful if Nvidia would offer all registered user (let’s start with those who use GeForce now or are registered via the Geforce Experience) at least one card per household for the MSRP in the country they live in. In some higher priced countries the webshop is „sadly“ (ha ha) out of stock, but the AIB models flood the market. Even with a waiting period that would be good for buyers as some like the FE model others misslike the weird pricing.
So often the reviewers tell us, 3000 series is still in stock… bla bla … but hard to buy for a fair price, sad.
simple. Nvidia wants you to buy 4090 (if available) or the old cards at launch price.
I think the usual economies of scale and synergy that drives most business decisions will prevent NVidia from making two different architectures for two different markets. Though, it would be great if I was wrong.
You're absolutely right. Spending extra engineering resources for the purpose of making some of their silicon less valuable makes zero sense.
Great review. Is it possible to becnhmark the difference in between the performance and the quiet mode?
I love hearing you talk about “Day of the tentical” now that was an epic game! ❤
NVDA doesnt need us to buy their 4080's. They will use whatever inventory thats not immediately lapped up, for their GeFarce streaming service data centers. (that goes for 3080's too. "DLSS3" works w 3000 series in the data center, just not for us at home) DLSS was, after all, designed as a streaming optimization technology.
As a person who was looking for an NVIDIA GPU for ML (bc Cuda is the ML ecosystem...god dammit) I can say I am very happy to have been able to get a 4070Ti for 850$. The drop in VRAM makes perfect sense not to compete with applications used in the Enterprise market. Really thoughtful and insightful, thanks ya Odd duck! Also, it's incredible to see how vidya games really have pushed the boundaries of computing for so long that now the enterprise is advancing based on that acceleration. Huge respect to all the video game programmers over the past 3 decades, your creativity and passion is the backbone of the future we are heading towards. Hope these words bring clarity to some who may be really upset about the cost of this technology. Just to be crystal, I recommend getting a 4070Ti if you are targeting ML applications, at 850$ not bad :D my 2cents
I'm still newb, so i do wonder if the reduced memory bus to 192 will impact performance in ML applications. Which applications, training, inference, does it depend on the type of model? So much to learn. I am going on the hunch that even the reduced bus of the 4070Ti compared to the 3070/3080 will not matter due to the increased clock speeds? Help Wendel!
Nvidia deserves everything they have coming to them, their greed is so apparent. These prices on these products needs a serious correction before many will even considering these new high cost GPU.
For all, what is your firs video card, and whe you upgrade that card how work games in that time. (sry bad EN language). (I remember ATI rage II upgraded from S3trioV4 ..). ? :)
Real innovation is happening in low end segment. A new igpu will be around rtx 3050 performance, new dedicated 4050 and AMD GPU will be like older one at half the power. We will have 13-14 inch laptops that can play modern games at 1080p60 medium-ultra. Some years ago only 1080ti class GPUs could play 1080p60 ultra comfortably. I guess that's the whole thing
Maybe somebody with GTX or RTX 2000 will be tempted to update to something like or 4070 at 600-700 bucks.
RDNA2 APU’s will be a taste of the future. I cannot wait. The Vega APU’s were shockingly good.
Actually, are there 6600U or 6700U Beelink’s or similar out? I have a feeling that they will embody exactly what you are describing.
@@sinesaii you meant RDNA 3 probably) well by my estimates new flagship iGPU would be roughly 50% more powerful than 680M, so yeah, it should be competing with 3050 theoretically
The hate is just strange. I'm from the UK and scan computers are selling the xtx for £1300-£1400. Which in most cases is more than the 4080.
What happened to compute cards?
Both nvidea and amd used to have a seperate line of server cards. Every now and then you could flash certain cards and get amazing gaming gpu's for cheap from when datacenter gpu's got replaced for new models.
Amd was called firestarter or something.
edit: pretty sure if wouldn't have been fireSTARTER haha. It was something with fire though.
Do they still do these lines? Haven't heard anything about it for years..
FirePro is probably what you're thinking of. AMD rebranded them to Radeon Pro, and they're still being produced using the same architectures as the gaming cards (the most recent being RDNA2). They seem to have double the price of their roughly equivalent gaming counterparts.
As for NVIDIA, Quadro has been killed off, being replaced with the RTX series (I know, confusing.) The cards also seem to be double the price of their roughly equivalent gaming counterparts, but the NVIDIA cards at least let you do GPU virtualization.
They used to have WORKSTATION cards. Not server ones.
Their server cards are all weirdo form-factor things that would make a tower PC speak in tongues and writhe on the floor.
There are still PCIe versions, but they are so power-inefficient by the time they get to a reasonable price that they aren't even worth considering.
It takes a LONG time for an $80k GPU to depreciate to $200.
@@Prism019 yeah. Thats what i was talking about indeed.
These where indeed mostly gaming cards with usually restrictions trough drivers or some functionality missing.
That's why every now and then there where certain cards you could flash with a gaming bios and end up with an equivilent to a high tier gaming card for cheap because the used workstation market was flooded with them.
Got my RTX 4080 for 1,173usd at an auction for an IT store that went bankrupt 4months ago, still have the widest smiles when I check the FPS and frametime counter.
I genuinely thought that card was gonna fall out. 3:11
After nvidia stopped making quadros more frequently, thats when they started making their cards all in ones.
When did they ever make quadro’s frequently?
@@sinesaii Prior to the 2000 series cards they had more quadros out than they do now. I guess frequent is not the right word. Quadros prior to the 2000 series were the actual workstation cards besides the titan. Now a days you probably dont even need the quadro and will do well with just a 4090.
3:00 What's the reference? Black Mirror?
My GTX 970 burned out. So I bought a 3070 Ti for 675 euros. I find the 4070 Ti for 950 euros... I wonder whether I would better give the additional 275 euros for the 4070 Ti, since it is last generation card, even though I am still using a 1440p monitor. Whatever opinion is welcome!
The problem is that these companies started as gaming GPU's. Just so happens these work well in other applications. Built their company on the backs of the gamers, then make the real money from the researchers.
I do wonder how this new generation of Nvidia scale with old CPUs....
Any change with this generation?
Nvidia can't even put out an updated control panel.. AMD's software is years ahead
4080 needs to $750. The 4070ti needs to be $500. Everything else is price gouging!
We can all pray for Intel to make performance gains in drivers so we can not buy Nvidia at all. The lack of competition is what makes these prices possible
You do realize inflation is a thing? You aren't going to see those prices anytime soon.
@@yosefshekelberg5433 Inflation has always been a thing even in the 70s, but whole point of technology advancement is that the stuff performs better and costs less inflation be damned.
@@aikafuwa7177 buddy inflation is inherent to any fiat currency.
It's been around since much, much longer than the 70s...lol.
The technology is better, but it's objectively more expensive for companies to produce these products.
This is because of inflation, supply chain issues and geopolitical issues with Taiwan and China.
Some of it is greed, but I know people are delusional if they think prices from ten years ago are relevant anymore.
the current debt system was implemented in the 70s getting of the gold standard etc. It's been price gouging since then at least. But the majority of it happened in the last two years. That should tell us something, like it ain't over until it's really over and we ain't seen nothing yet kind of.
8:40 did you check if it was shipped and sold by Newegg or was it a third party seller? The actual difference should be closer to 5-700, not that it makes any of these cards a good value.