Probably one of the only vids on climbing/scrambling/mountaineering that I have seen for a while with a few 000 view's that has no "Experts" giving a thumbs down, Jez you must be doing something right mate, Well done very ,very informative.
As a dad with basic climbing knowledge this was very helpful. My 12 year old son and I use indoor climbing center at the moment. With further training we will head out to quarries etc. I am the anchorman, so starting to learn more professional ways for top/bottom rope set ups. We will use instructors and not just RUclips - not the place to think you know it all... so thanks forgiving me ideas which lead to questions for the instructors.
JB Mountain Skills love the series of videos you have online. Very encouraging for all levels of climber and always with safety first. Fantastic job sir. I love going climbing with my son, great bonding and teamwork, my girls also getting into climbing too. Great family adventure
Since seeing this, I've gotten into arguments about "top rope, bottom rope" terms. Defending your definitions. But I've since been corrected: Bottom rope: fixed anchor at the bottom, mainly for Lead Rope soloing. Top rope: climbing not on lead, either to second a lead for cleaning or working on the route. Belayer position doesn't matter, just climbing without placing protection because of a anchor system/belayer above you. The main reason why I've convinced is Top rope send is used as the definition of the style of send. While of you do it on lead it's either, a trad lead send, a (sport) lead send, OR a lead solo send(trad or sport respectively). If you "top rope send" that means zero pro was placed while climbing. While "bottom rope send" isn't a thing. Thank you so much for the videos, I'll keep watching and learning.
They’re kind of instructor terms. Simply put if the ropes above you through some rigging it’s a top rope. A sub division is that if the rope runs up and back down to a belayer on the floor, it’s a bottom rope. These are established terms, in the U.K. and some, but not all countries.
@@JBMountainSkills aaaa okay, that will help me better define. Yeah out here(Jtree), they call it guide (mode) belay. I love the little intricacies of different areas and places around the world. Once again thank you so much I love the videos keep it up bud!
Exctly, position of the belayer is irrelevant. Top rope= rope goes from climber UP the rock to the anchor regardless if the belayer is above or below the climber.
Not sure if it's what you were going for, but the instant coffee bit was hilarious. Loving these videos -- been making my way through them faster than you can make them, so I dread the day I run out...
Best and clearest set of instructional videos for all aspects of climbing I have found in the 4 years since I started. Will definitely be coming over to N. Wales for some multi pitch courses with you next Spring. Keep going JB.
Jezza, these vids have been incredibly helpful during my (one month) RCI consolidation period! I had information overload on the training so to be able to go through these rigs in my own time at home has really embanked me to slow down and get everything right (I hope!). You've put together a very valuable resource here for anyone working towards their RCI. Cheers fella :)
What about a video on inspection of gear. Logging for personal and instructing use. Would be good to hear your take... just been checking out my ropes, hardware and slings etc. When is time to retire for lightly used gear.
Hey, In the case of the bottom rope, could you use a sling for an anchor instead of a static rope? If the sling is long enough to get to all the pieces of course
had the question about the one rope throughout the whole video and you covered it at the end. Really enjoying all the videos and definitely giving me something to do on the stairs indoors. cheers JB
Great video was really helpful. I find top & bottom roping a bit confusing sometimes when I try to set them up, but this video was a great recap for my RCI assessment. 👍
PS - Could you do a video showing how to do Y hangs properly and when to use them. Very hard to find anything on youtube which is not a tree cropping video.
JB, bought you a coffee and thought I’d ask a question while you drink it :) I am looking to climb in the gunks we’re there are some bomber trees to TR but they are massively far from the edge. My strategy has been to do a traced figure 8 around a big tree, then run out the line to more or less where I think the master point should be. I tie a figure 8 on a bit there, clip a locker, clip the midpoint of my rope, then toss the rope down. Next I take the loose end of the static line and run that back to another tree, and use a bowline there. It feels “ok”, but there is likely a better way for loads of reasons. Maybe a short vid on it might be helpful for us Yankees climbing in the gunks? If not any thoughts? Cheers.
Hi Jezza can I start by saying your institution on the video's is exerlant so clear to understand and see what and why you are doing what you're doing.im a 50 year young man that's just got into climbing in North Wales thought my girlfriend I am a climbing wall and high ropes instructor at a well known holiday park how would you sergeant I can progress in climbing to become a real life climbing instructor and I have a 23 year military career behind me thanks keep up the videos please
Hi Jez. Looking to do some outdoor bottom roping, picked myself up 25m of static rope and have a basic trad/scrambling rack. For crags where the only anchors are boulders or trees, how would you recommend rigging them? Seen a few different methods but looking for the safest and most faff-free way... if you could knock out a quick vid that'd be ace! Loving the vids by the way 👌 cheers
This video (like all your others) is great! So clearly explained. I wonder if you could explain what you change top-roping when the anchors are lower down because obviously many sp crags don't have nice high anchors like on Sling Mountain! Today I setup a top rope and belayed from an Italian hitch but my anchor was (slightly) lower than my waist and I realised this was less than ideal! Would you sit down to toprope belay?Or are there any other options? Thanks :)
Hey Cheryl glad you like the videos and thanks so much for the Buy Me a Coffee! Well done on passing your RCI to 👊 In answer to your question, yeah I'd sit down, I tend to do that in life as much as possible anyway...!
Hi Jez, your content is amazing and you have been an absolute godsend through my RCI consolidation period. I have my assessment coming up next weekend and I have a query regarding getting the overhand equalized and aligned with the route for bottom ropes. I'm having a tough time equalizing the overhand before throwing it over the edge of the route, especially when on a belay/prusik (near the edge of the crag) because of the way they affect the slack in the system, and often find myself having to re-tie it because a strand is lose. I was wondering whether you have any tips to equalize all the strands when the top of the bottom ropes route is out of reach? Sorry for the waffle I hope that makes sense. Thanks and I hope you keep doing what you're doing:)
Hiya, glad you’ve liked the videos! Yeah that can be a bit of a faff… Dangle the untied loops over the edge, grab all the strands from a comfy position and tie an overhand there. You’ll have massive loops but you can pull them up now and tie a second overhand down at the end of the loops giving you your nice neat, small loops. That’s just one way, but can work well.
I really like your videos, very informative, all information is clear and you are taking time to explain things property! What are your thoughts on Top Rope Solo?
@@JBMountainSkills I have looked at the video on working the routes. You did mention Shunt which isn't the safest option if shunt hits the wall or crimp, etc... I use Petzl Rescucender as primary and Micro Traxion as secondary and many rope protectors for trad routes. What are you top pics for rope protectors?
Great vid. Next time I want to see a rappel off the banister. The final setup you do--using the climbing rope also as the anchor rope--is a little mind-blowing. But I guess if it's not rubbing against an edge anywhere, why not? The setup is redundant, but it looks like if the right anchor fails, it'll cause extension--as far as the master point to the clove hitch, which in your case is about two feet, but in a real set up could be farther. Also, if the anchor on the right does fail, the rope will pull down, which means the load on the master point knot will be pulled in two directions, 180 degrees. Is that safe? I certainly could be missing something like a part you may have said was make believe!
None of those anchors failing would cause extension to anything, due to the Masterpoint Knot. The Italian Hitch on the Masterpoint stops anything like a 180 pull happening. Apologies if I've misunderstood your point!
Hey Jez, great video really clear and easy to understand as always and a great refresher. Just wondering, if your static rope is long enough, can you use it to set up two or more master points for neighbouring routes as long as you leave enough slack in between so they are independent? Hope that makes sense. Thanks again 😀🧗♀️
Hi I’m a beginner and I’ve just bought some equipment to begin outdoor bottom roping. I found this video very helpful except there are three carabiners on your banister. What would the be attached to and how would I attach them in real life?
Morning Jez, another great video..... can you see any issues with using opposing self locking Krabs to run the climbing rope through on a bottom rope set up?
Pleasure Paul! Yes, absolutely. I sometimes do, well I often do, just consider whether you're like to need to lower the climber, because if it's likely you're often better off with an Italian - lowering on a guide plate is a bit of a faff!
A bit late to the party here. I'm a beginner so I was wondering about the overhand knot... It seems loose to me. If one of the lines that goes back to the anchor were to break, will that knot hold and no let the rope slip through? Really good video :)
i actually call bottom roping top roping, cuz the rope runs through the anchor at the top. but i guess i dont do multi pitch or trad it doesnt really matter.
Hey Jez, great video, really clear & informative 👌 I was just wondering what the best practice would be for tying in that clove hitch as the third point in the Top Rope anchor, if said anchor point is out of reach? Cheers
Cheers! As with all these things there's loads of great ways of achieving the same outcome. I'd probably do something along the lines of tying a big knot to create a master point with two of the pieces and then run a single strand to the 3rd point, attaching with a clove hitch. Ideally the 3rd piece would be the closest to the edge.
If you had two loops coming from the master point and were clipped into only one of the loops, the other loop was for the belay but had no weight or carabiner attached, then took a fall on your loop, would the anchor point be compromised?
The answer is probably knot unless the master-point loops are tiny. However, I always make sure something is clipped in to each loop, even if it's just a crab.
To be honest I just use 50m ropes. Never walking that far and it gives the flexibility for various setups, as well as using one rope for two setups etc.
Is it really unsafe to do bottom roping with only one rope and when there is only one anchor? In our local quarry there's only one anchor, a post and we use that and the rope runs over the edge padded out to protect it and the crag. So the crab is back at the anchor and in space not hanging over the edge. Thanks!
Would be great to see this video out on some real crags to demonstrate how you keep yourself safe, I can imagine in certain situations being on a single bit of gear with a safety prussik (at first) could be less than ideal.
"Why two carabiners?" - From direct first hand experience as a kid, I got to the top of a route and the single locking carabiner the guide had used had either unlocked itself due to rubbing against the rock, or else the guy had forgotten to lock it. No big deal right? Except it was also being held in the open position probably by the same protrusion of rock that had unlocked the gate. Two snap gates would probably have been safer in that instance! Always use two carabiners - please!
Every knot you tie weakens the system by 50% ! Best to tie Clove Hitch at all anchor points and the master point! Please refer to Brent Peters' both you tube videos "Clove Hitch for Anchors"! Thanks. Cheers!
Best to? No. It depends on many things as to what knot is suitable. How much does a clove hitch lose? Does 50% matter when tied in a rope / sling? (Spoiler - not normally)
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Want to buy me a coffee or the boy a dog treat?! www.buymeacoffee.com/jbmountain
Probably one of the only vids on climbing/scrambling/mountaineering that I have seen for a while with a few 000 view's that has no "Experts" giving a thumbs down, Jez you must be doing something right mate, Well done very ,very informative.
Oh god, now you’ve jinxed it 😂 glad you liked it!
As a dad with basic climbing knowledge this was very helpful. My 12 year old son and I use indoor climbing center at the moment. With further training we will head out to quarries etc. I am the anchorman, so starting to learn more professional ways for top/bottom rope set ups. We will use instructors and not just RUclips - not the place to think you know it all... so thanks forgiving me ideas which lead to questions for the instructors.
Glad it was helpful! Happy climbing!
JB Mountain Skills love the series of videos you have online. Very encouraging for all levels of climber and always with safety first. Fantastic job sir. I love going climbing with my son, great bonding and teamwork, my girls also getting into climbing too. Great family adventure
Since seeing this, I've gotten into arguments about "top rope, bottom rope" terms. Defending your definitions. But I've since been corrected:
Bottom rope: fixed anchor at the bottom, mainly for Lead Rope soloing.
Top rope: climbing not on lead, either to second a lead for cleaning or working on the route. Belayer position doesn't matter, just climbing without placing protection because of a anchor system/belayer above you.
The main reason why I've convinced is Top rope send is used as the definition of the style of send. While of you do it on lead it's either, a trad lead send, a (sport) lead send, OR a lead solo send(trad or sport respectively).
If you "top rope send" that means zero pro was placed while climbing. While "bottom rope send" isn't a thing.
Thank you so much for the videos, I'll keep watching and learning.
They’re kind of instructor terms.
Simply put if the ropes above you through some rigging it’s a top rope.
A sub division is that if the rope runs up and back down to a belayer on the floor, it’s a bottom rope.
These are established terms, in the U.K. and some, but not all countries.
@@JBMountainSkills aaaa okay, that will help me better define. Yeah out here(Jtree), they call it guide (mode) belay.
I love the little intricacies of different areas and places around the world.
Once again thank you so much I love the videos keep it up bud!
Exctly, position of the belayer is irrelevant. Top rope= rope goes from climber UP the rock to the anchor regardless if the belayer is above or below the climber.
Not sure if it's what you were going for, but the instant coffee bit was hilarious. Loving these videos -- been making my way through them faster than you can make them, so I dread the day I run out...
Best and clearest set of instructional videos for all aspects of climbing I have found in the 4 years since I started. Will definitely be coming over to N. Wales for some multi pitch courses with you next Spring. Keep going JB.
Glad you like 'em!
Will be practicing this for my upcoming RCI training
Jezza, these vids have been incredibly helpful during my (one month) RCI consolidation period! I had information overload on the training so to be able to go through these rigs in my own time at home has really embanked me to slow down and get everything right (I hope!). You've put together a very valuable resource here for anyone working towards their RCI. Cheers fella :)
My pleasure Nick, glad they’re proving useful 👊
What about a video on inspection of gear. Logging for personal and instructing use. Would be good to hear your take... just been checking out my ropes, hardware and slings etc. When is time to retire for lightly used gear.
I'll give that one some thought, cheers!
@@JBMountainSkills cheers. Some thoughts on logging your gear for both personal and business would be interesting.... well at least to me😀
Hey, In the case of the bottom rope, could you use a sling for an anchor instead of a static rope? If the sling is long enough to get to all the pieces of course
Yep, you could :)
Superb video Jez 👍👍
Thanks Nick!
@@JBMountainSkills Could you please explain why you need 2 ropes if you are bottom roping? Many thanks and great videos!!
had the question about the one rope throughout the whole video and you covered it at the end. Really enjoying all the videos and definitely giving me something to do on the stairs indoors. cheers JB
Glad you like them!
Great video was really helpful. I find top & bottom roping a bit confusing sometimes when I try to set them up, but this video was a great recap for my RCI assessment. 👍
Glad it was useful!
GREAT CONTENT. Keep more coming 😀👍
Hope you enjoy the video, give us a shout with any requests 👊🎬
PS - Could you do a video showing how to do Y hangs properly and when to use them. Very hard to find anything on youtube which is not a tree cropping video.
Great vid as always!
Any chance of an advice vid for building top rope anchors from belay stakes?
JB, bought you a coffee and thought I’d ask a question while you drink it :) I am looking to climb in the gunks we’re there are some bomber trees to TR but they are massively far from the edge. My strategy has been to do a traced figure 8 around a big tree, then run out the line to more or less where I think the master point should be. I tie a figure 8 on a bit there, clip a locker, clip the midpoint of my rope, then toss the rope down. Next I take the loose end of the static line and run that back to another tree, and use a bowline there.
It feels “ok”, but there is likely a better way for loads of reasons. Maybe a short vid on it might be helpful for us Yankees climbing in the gunks? If not any thoughts? Cheers.
Sounds just fine to me! The only thing that might speed things up a little are slings around the trees - unless they're monsters!
Hi Jezza can I start by saying your institution on the video's is exerlant so clear to understand and see what and why you are doing what you're doing.im a 50 year young man that's just got into climbing in North Wales thought my girlfriend I am a climbing wall and high ropes instructor at a well known holiday park how would you sergeant I can progress in climbing to become a real life climbing instructor and I have a 23 year military career behind me thanks keep up the videos please
Thanks for the kind words :)
Any plans to do an outdoor version of this? (or is there one somewhere?)
Hi Jez, great video!! Would it be possible to use slings instead of static rope when bottom roping?
Cheers! Yeah for sure, all the same principles 👌
Hi Jez. Looking to do some outdoor bottom roping, picked myself up 25m of static rope and have a basic trad/scrambling rack. For crags where the only anchors are boulders or trees, how would you recommend rigging them? Seen a few different methods but looking for the safest and most faff-free way... if you could knock out a quick vid that'd be ace!
Loving the vids by the way 👌 cheers
What diameter of rope would you recommend for the anchor? I've currently got 8mm accessory cord, but is that ideal? Thanks
For building top ropes, I'd ideally use a "full weight" rope. My static ropes I use are 10mm.
I was about to ask the same. I have a 7mm accessory cord but if 10mm is better then I can get some. What’s the ideal length to get?
This video (like all your others) is great! So clearly explained. I wonder if you could explain what you change top-roping when the anchors are lower down because obviously many sp crags don't have nice high anchors like on Sling Mountain! Today I setup a top rope and belayed from an Italian hitch but my anchor was (slightly) lower than my waist and I realised this was less than ideal! Would you sit down to toprope belay?Or are there any other options? Thanks :)
Hey Cheryl glad you like the videos and thanks so much for the Buy Me a Coffee! Well done on passing your RCI to 👊
In answer to your question, yeah I'd sit down, I tend to do that in life as much as possible anyway...!
Hi Jez, your content is amazing and you have been an absolute godsend through my RCI consolidation period. I have my assessment coming up next weekend and I have a query regarding getting the overhand equalized and aligned with the route for bottom ropes. I'm having a tough time equalizing the overhand before throwing it over the edge of the route, especially when on a belay/prusik (near the edge of the crag) because of the way they affect the slack in the system, and often find myself having to re-tie it because a strand is lose. I was wondering whether you have any tips to equalize all the strands when the top of the bottom ropes route is out of reach? Sorry for the waffle I hope that makes sense. Thanks and I hope you keep doing what you're doing:)
Hiya, glad you’ve liked the videos!
Yeah that can be a bit of a faff…
Dangle the untied loops over the edge, grab all the strands from a comfy position and tie an overhand there. You’ll have massive loops but you can pull them up now and tie a second overhand down at the end of the loops giving you your nice neat, small loops.
That’s just one way, but can work well.
@@JBMountainSkills ahh yes thank you I’ll definitely give that method a go! Cheers for the reply really appreciate it:)
I really like your videos, very informative, all information is clear and you are taking time to explain things property!
What are your thoughts on Top Rope Solo?
Glad you've liked 'em!
I think I did a video about working / inspecting a route that might mention TR solo stuff...
@@JBMountainSkills I have looked at the video on working the routes. You did mention Shunt which isn't the safest option if shunt hits the wall or crimp, etc... I use Petzl Rescucender as primary and Micro Traxion as secondary and many rope protectors for trad routes. What are you top pics for rope protectors?
Great vid. Next time I want to see a rappel off the banister. The final setup you do--using the climbing rope also as the anchor rope--is a little mind-blowing. But I guess if it's not rubbing against an edge anywhere, why not? The setup is redundant, but it looks like if the right anchor fails, it'll cause extension--as far as the master point to the clove hitch, which in your case is about two feet, but in a real set up could be farther. Also, if the anchor on the right does fail, the rope will pull down, which means the load on the master point knot will be pulled in two directions, 180 degrees. Is that safe? I certainly could be missing something like a part you may have said was make believe!
None of those anchors failing would cause extension to anything, due to the Masterpoint Knot.
The Italian Hitch on the Masterpoint stops anything like a 180 pull happening.
Apologies if I've misunderstood your point!
Hey Jez, great video really clear and easy to understand as always and a great refresher. Just wondering, if your static rope is long enough, can you use it to set up two or more master points for neighbouring routes as long as you leave enough slack in between so they are independent? Hope that makes sense. Thanks again 😀🧗♀️
Hi Luke! Yep what you suggest it quite common and can be quite an efficient way of doing it 👊
Hi I’m a beginner and I’ve just bought some equipment to begin outdoor bottom roping. I found this video very helpful except there are three carabiners on your banister. What would the be attached to and how would I attach them in real life?
Depends... Nuts / hexes / cams / bolts / slings round spikes... depends on the crag :)
Brilliant video Jez, can you use normal climbing rope to set up a bottom rope or does it need to be low stretch/static rope? Cheers Trev
Cheers!
You can, just be aware of extra stretch over edges...
Morning Jez, another great video..... can you see any issues with using opposing self locking Krabs to run the climbing rope through on a bottom rope set up?
None at all. I'd consider it a fraction safer if anything!
I've just put a post with perhaps an even safer way to do it. Not something I normally do though: bit.ly/3dMFw9a
Cheers for these Jez, setting up a top rope on two bomber anchors could i use a guider plate ?
Pleasure Paul! Yes, absolutely. I sometimes do, well I often do, just consider whether you're like to need to lower the climber, because if it's likely you're often better off with an Italian - lowering on a guide plate is a bit of a faff!
Makes sense ,nice one .bring on tomorrow's video
A bit late to the party here. I'm a beginner so I was wondering about the overhand knot... It seems loose to me. If one of the lines that goes back to the anchor were to break, will that knot hold and no let the rope slip through? Really good video :)
Can this be done with a large dyneema sling instead of rope if we don’t have a second rope?
Yep, just be extra careful of edges.
Yeah but , , ,
everyone calls bottom roping ,
Top roping 😉
i actually call bottom roping top roping, cuz the rope runs through the anchor at the top. but i guess i dont do multi pitch or trad it doesnt really matter.
WeebKun bottom roping is like a subset of top roping, it’s a pointless term for most but helps clarify things for instructors.
@@JBMountainSkills ah ic
Hey Jez, great video, really clear & informative 👌
I was just wondering what the best practice would be for tying in that clove hitch as the third point in the Top Rope anchor, if said anchor point is out of reach?
Cheers
Cheers!
As with all these things there's loads of great ways of achieving the same outcome. I'd probably do something along the lines of tying a big knot to create a master point with two of the pieces and then run a single strand to the 3rd point, attaching with a clove hitch. Ideally the 3rd piece would be the closest to the edge.
@@JBMountainSkills Cheers man, appreciate that! Have the ol' RCI assessment coming up and your content has been really helpful!
If you had two loops coming from the master point and were clipped into only one of the loops, the other loop was for the belay but had no weight or carabiner attached, then took a fall on your loop, would the anchor point be compromised?
The answer is probably knot unless the master-point loops are tiny. However, I always make sure something is clipped in to each loop, even if it's just a crab.
Jez, what is a typical length rigging rope you use for such set ups? Carrying the full 50m always seems overkill.
To be honest I just use 50m ropes. Never walking that far and it gives the flexibility for various setups, as well as using one rope for two setups etc.
Hi, what is the slide thing you mentioned at 4.45ish?
Hiya, along Slyde, it’s an adjustable lanyard, a video about it here: ruclips.net/video/CTH1Ekph-AQ/видео.html
:)
Is it really unsafe to do bottom roping with only one rope and when there is only one anchor? In our local quarry there's only one anchor, a post and we use that and the rope runs over the edge padded out to protect it and the crag. So the crab is back at the anchor and in space not hanging over the edge. Thanks!
Would be great to see this video out on some real crags to demonstrate how you keep yourself safe, I can imagine in certain situations being on a single bit of gear with a safety prussik (at first) could be less than ideal.
Great suggestion, I'll try and do that. This one's on lanyards that might be of interest!
"Why two carabiners?" - From direct first hand experience as a kid, I got to the top of a route and the single locking carabiner the guide had used had either unlocked itself due to rubbing against the rock, or else the guy had forgotten to lock it. No big deal right? Except it was also being held in the open position probably by the same protrusion of rock that had unlocked the gate. Two snap gates would probably have been safer in that instance! Always use two carabiners - please!
Every knot you tie weakens the system by 50% ! Best to tie Clove Hitch at all anchor points and the master point! Please refer to Brent Peters' both you tube videos "Clove Hitch for Anchors"! Thanks. Cheers!
Best to? No. It depends on many things as to what knot is suitable. How much does a clove hitch lose? Does 50% matter when tied in a rope / sling? (Spoiler - not normally)
Rad. (Figured eight tied correctly doesn’t need a stopper).
A well tied stopper makes the knot easier to untie if it’s been weighted, especially when using skinny ropes
Bottom rope: goes to the top then down to the climber. Pretty sure that is top roping with a bottom belay.
It's called bottom roping. Might be a UK thing, but here it's called bottom roping.