Hi! Metro North employee here! Stations that I’m surprised aren’t seriously being discussed are passenger stations built at or near Highbridge and Sunnyside yard. Highbridge is simply because that neighborhood could really use rail options considering though on paper it’s close to Yankee and Morris Heights station, the rough terrain makes it difficult to reach them outside of car or bus. Also would make for a very quick commute to the Highbridge itself. And Sunnyside would provide a really vital transfer from the Metro North and Lirr without needing to go into Manhattan, cutting down times significantly going from say Connecticut to Long Island.
White Plains used to have a "mini-Grand Central" too. Yonkers still does. If you want to talk about former branches, you should consider the Mahopac Branch which ran from the Harlem Division just south of Golden's Bridge station to Mahopac station on the Putnam Division. The Getty Square Branch of the Putnam Division also used to have a funicular railroad from Park Hill NYC station to Alta Avenue in the Park Hill section of Southwest Yonkers.
It’s not an active train terminal anymore but the Lackawanna Terminal in Scranton, PA is gorgeous. Radisson turned it into a hotel. I was just there this past weekend having a drink with my wife. Unbelievable place.
I grew up riding the Hudson Line when I lived in Tarrytown! The Hudson Line is an incredible line, as not only does it have spectacular views of the Hudson Palisades and Hudson Highlands, but most of the electrified zone has four tracks (usually two express and local tracks in each direction), it has Manitou and Breakneck Ridge for hikers, it's shared as part of Amtrak's Empire Corridor, there's connecting peak ferry service at Ossining and Beacon to go across the Hudson to Haverstraw and Newburgh respectively, you can take it for Yankees games at Yankees-East 153rd St, and the suburbs along the Hudson Line like Yonkers and Tarrytown are walkable! The Park Avenue main line was initially a street railroad built by the New York and Harlem Railroad and ran to what is now Lower Manhattan. In fact, the New York and Harlem Railroad was the WORLD'S first street railway! The railroad's ROW at ground level forced foot and carriage traffic onto either side of the tracks, so they built the Murray Hill Tunnel in 1834, an open cut tunnel. So Park Ave is called such for the grates and grass covering the tunnel! In 1907, the streetcar operator New York City Railway went into receivership. The New York Railways Corporation converted the line to bus operation in the 1930s. The Murray Hill Tunnel now carries a lane of road traffic, but not bus-only. The Park Avenue main line was gradually truncated through the 1860s, until Grand Central Depot was opened in 1871. The line was placed in a grade-separated structure in the late 19th century as part of the Fourth Avenue and Park Avenue Improvement projects and was electrified in the first decade of the 20th century as part of the construction of Grand Central Terminal which opened in 1913. And the Murray Hill Tunnel is not the only former streetcar tunnel in NYC converted to something else, as the Steinway Tunnel now used by IRT Flushing Line trains was also meant for streetcars. The Steinway Tunnel is named for William Steinway, and during the 1890s, Steinway began a project to construct a tunnel for trolleys under the East River to link Manhattan to his company town, Steinway Village, in Astoria. The dirt removed from the tunnels was formed into a small island in the middle of the East River, now called U Thant Island after the third secretary-general of the United Nations from 1961 to 1971! The views of the Hudson River Palisades are definitely my favorite thing about the Hudson Line, especially during Fall with all the foliage! Palisade is derived from pale, ultimately from the Latin word palus, meaning stake. The Lenape called the cliffs "rocks that look like rows of trees", a phrase that became "Weehawken"! They're basalt cliffs, the margin of a diabase sill, formed about 200 million years ago at the close of the Triassic period by the intrusion of molten magma upward into sandstone. When the trapped magma first intruded into the Triassic layers of sedimentary rock, it was so hot that contact metamorphism occurred, altering the rock around it. In the case of the Palisades, the magma cooled under the sedimentary layers, forming a sill made of igneous diabase about 40 miles long and 1,000 feet thick. During this time, crustal movements along the Ramapo fault tilted the entire region downward about 17 degrees to the west. Water erosion of the softer sandstone left behind the columnar structure of harder rock that exists today! The Palisades were the site of 18 documented duels and probably many unrecorded ones in the years 1798-1845. The most famous duel was of course the Burr-Hamilton duel which took place in Weehawken in July 1804! It also played a role during the American Revolution, as in the wake of the rebel's defeat in the Battle of Brooklyn and the Battle of Fort Washington, British commander Lord Cornwallis marched his men up the Palisades to try to ambush George Washington. Washington, stationed near Fort Lee, was alerted to the ambush by an unknown horseback patriot, and successfully fled west through Englewood and over the Hackensack River, avoiding capture in what is remembered as Washington's Retreat
That was a lot of info! Fun fact about the Palisades - builders were ruining them by removing the stone to build brownstones in the city. The rich like JP Morgan and the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts worked to save them by helping to set up the Palisades Interstate Park Commission which helped acquire the lands & stop the quarrying that had been going on. They also put in the Parkway.
Wassaic is pronounced "Wah-say-ick", similar to Passaic in NJ! Something to note about the Port Jervis and Pascack Valley Lines is that while considered MNR on a MNR map, they're operated by NJ Transit while under contract with MNR. Although MTA subsidizes the Port Jervis Line service and maintains all of the facilities (except for Suffern), the trains are operated by NJT personnel, and the ticket vending machines on station platforms are NJT. There's a reason it makes that U-shape. The portions of the line from Suffern to Harriman and from Otisville to Port Jervis were built as the Erie mainline, opening to Port Jervis in 1848. The route south of Suffern is slightly younger (connected for through service in 1853), as the original mainline ran east from Suffern to Piermont. The portion from Harriman to Otisville was built in the 1900s as a low-level freight bypass named the Graham Line. This portion of the line bypasses the original Erie mainline through Monroe, Chester, Goshen and Middletown. The Graham Line has no grade crossings, which was a rarity on the Erie. The downside of the improved grade and curvature is that the Graham Line is seven miles longer than the original mainline. Maintaining the desired grade required building the Otisville Tunnel and the Moodna Viaduct. The Moodna Viaduct spans the Moodna Creek valley for 3,200 ft and is 193 ft high at its highest point, making it the second-highest and second-longest railroad trestle east of the Mississippi River, after the 1889 Poughkeepsie Bridge that's now the Walkway over the Hudson, which means the Moodna Viaduct is the highest and longest ACTIVE railroad trestle east of the Mississippi. The Otisville Tunnel is the longest tunnel in the MNR system, at 5,314 feet in length. Norfolk Southern shares the use of the track for local freight operations between Suffern and Port Jervis. Appalachian Trail station on the Harlem Line isn't the only station for hikers on MNR! Appalachian Trail station stands out not just for its look, but it's also the ONLY station directly on the Appalachian Trail! As in, no other station in the US is directly on the trail! Breakneck Ridge and Manitou on the Hudson Line are two other stations for hikers! Manitou and Breakneck Ridge serve the Hudson Highlands, with Manitou serving the nearby Bear Mountain State Park and Anthony's Nose while Breakneck Ridge serves its namesake. And the New Haven Line is also useful if you're going to Yale University in New Haven or connecting to CT Rail and Amtrak's Hartford Line, Amtrak Valley Flyer, or CT Rail Shore Line East trains in New Haven as well. It's also worth mentioning that the New Haven Line and Harlem Line has special gameday service for Yankees games (hence the New Haven Line train at 2:10), a stop typically only used by Hudson Line trains, as they use a wye at Mott Haven interlocking to reach Yankee Stadium on game days. At one point in time, the New Haven Line also had game day service to the Meadowlands for Sunday 1 pm Giants and Jets games. The service was operated using NJ Transit equipment under an operating agreement among NJT, Metro-North, and Amtrak. NJT equipment was required as its electric locomotive power was capable of running under the various catenary systems over three separate railroads using different power supplies. The program was only offered for the early afternoon games so that the NJT equipment could be moved back in place for the Monday morning rush hour. The train didn't go direct to the Meadowlands of course, they still had to change to a shuttle train at Secaucus.
1) The rail line along the west side of the Hudson is very active, but only with freight. 2) If you take a train south from Poughkeepsie: A) on Amtrak, you end up at Penn Station, B) on Metro North Hudson you end up at Grand Central. So, yes, the systems are sort of interconnected. 3) You show a picture of 153rd Street-Yankee Stadium. That is only accessible on the Metro North Hudson line. 4) Amtrak and MTA trains use both diesel and electric power. Can't run diesel into Grand Central or Penn, except in an emergency. The problem between MTA and Amtrak is that they use incompatible third-rail power shoe pickups --- Amtrak/Penn use overrunning shoes while MTA/GCT use underrunning shoes. LIRR uses overrunning, which complicates GC Madison. 5) You can get into arguments over the "Tappan Zee" Bridge. The official name is the Mario M. Cuomo Bridge. NY Turnpike Authority forgot the middle initial on the original signage and had to replace it at non-trivial expense.
Thank you for not calling it the Cuomo bridge! Tappan zee forever. As a life long Westchester resident, metro north is my main train service and have always been fascinated since I was a kid.
You didn't include Westwood in its correct location on your Pascack Valley Line map! It's between Hillsdale and Emerson. New Haven Line stands out in that its electric trains switch from catenary to third-rail, similarly to the MBTA Blue Line! Trains between New Haven and Mount Vernon East follow the Northeast Corridor and uses overhead catenary, while between Pelham and Grand Central Terminal, it uses third-rail. All New Haven Line electric trains change over between third-rail and overhead catenary between Mount Vernon East and Pelham at normal track speed. As they transition, the third-rail shoes stay in the same position both in and out of third rail territory. Both catenary and third rail overlap for a quarter-mile between Mount Vernon East and Pelham to facilitate this changeover. Regarding the Beacon Line, we already have a verdict, it's not happening. In February 2021, Metro-North announced it would file with the Surface Transportation Board to seek an adverse discontinuance of the Housatonic Railroad's trackage rights over the section between Beacon and the Connecticut border, allowing MNR to abandon the line and convert it to a trail, an extension of the Empire State Trail. The Housatonic was initially opposed, discussed a settlement of the issue in September 2022, and they notified the Surface Transportation Board it was no longer opposing the abandonment in January 2023. The STB denied Metro-North's abandonment and trail conversion request in July 2023, citing procedural and legal issues with the filing, but Metro-North again filed for abandonment in December 2023 and the filing was approved and took effect in February 2024. The Maybrook Branch was formerly known as the Maybrook Line, which connected the Waterbury Branch with Maybrook Yard in Maybrook, Orange County, where it interchanged with other carriers. It was the main east-west freight route of the New Haven until its merger with the Penn Central in 1969. And man, I love Grand Central Terminal. Some interesting stuff about GCT's ceiling: Original plans called for the ceiling to contain a skylight, but money and time ran out, so a mural was painted instead. It was conceived in 1912 by architect Warren and painter Paul César Helleu. Helleu originally had come to the United States for a three-month stay to create portraits of eight women for a Parisian magazine, but he sketched a conceptual design for Warren. Helleu worked from a chart given by Columbia University astronomy professor Harold Jacoby, who had derived it from the Uranometria, a scientifically accurate star atlas published in 1603. The mural was executed in 1913 by James Monroe Hewlett and Charles Basing of Hewlett-Basing Studio. They were assisted in the design by Helleu and multiple astronomers, and in the painting by more than 50 painting assistants. Around 63 electric bulbs were installed to amplify the visual impact of the stars! Less than two months after the terminal opened, one commuter noticed that the ceiling's design was actually backwards, west is east and east is west. Both Jacoby and Basing were asked how the ceiling’s layout could have gotten flipped. Jacoby offered the explanation that the original diagram had been laid out correctly and would match perfectly against a celestial atlas. As such, the diagram was meant to be held overhead. When the image was projected onto the ceiling for painting, Basing (according to Jacoby) must have laid it on the floor and projected it upwards, reversing the image. As for Basing, he “showed little interest in the technical defects and added that he thought the work had been done very well.” So the entire artwork is reversed left-to-right from the Uranometria and the night sky...except for Orion! In the 1940s, they covered the ceiling in cement and stuff because the roof leaked and this lacked the bulbs to imitate the stars, but in the 1990s, because of dirt buildup on the new ceiling, the ceiling boards were cleaned and repainted, and lights were installed into the ceiling boards to imitate the stars. A single dark patch near the crab constellation was left untouched by renovators to remind visitors of the grime that once covered the ceiling
That was very interesting. I don't know if you are aware, but there is more history of the Port Jervis line. Back in the 1970's the rail line used to run through the downtown sections of Middletown, Goshen, Chester, Monroe and Harriman. There were stations in each village. For some reason they decided to cut off the line through the villages and transferred both freight and commuter services to the current line that loops through open countryside in Orange County. It severely affected businesses in all of those villages. It also greatly reduced ridership along this line. It did open the area in the rural area to more suburban development that served people working in NYC.
Other thing to note: At New Haven, there is an ivy league college a mile north of the station which is Yale University. It’s also useful to getting there from NYC
Metro-North does not operate any trains west of the Hudson. All trains are operated by NJ Transit under contract to and subsidized by Metro-North over trackage right of way. NJ Transit route miles is also longer than Metro-North or LIRR, but 3rd in number of passengers.
The information mentioned about Beacon / Maybrook line at the 11:00 minute mark is incorrect. While tracks are there, the line is severed in several places and is not passable. No train traffic has been on that line for over a decade and the MTA has filed for permanent abandonment of it. Currently, there is a paved rail trail adjacent to a single set of tracks (it was a 2 track right of way) from the CT/NY border all the way west to where it connect with the Walkway over the Hudson bridge.
The Beacon line doesn't connect to Poughkeepsie and the Walkway. Only Beacon. Hence the name. The Maybrook Trailway meets the Dutchess County Rail Trail at Hopewell Junction, where the DCRT proceeds northwest to Poughkeepsie and the defunct Beacon line travels west to southwest to meet the Hudson line just south of Beacon station.
Great video and history. The line between Beacon, NY and Danbury, CT is in total disrepair, except for the portion in Connecticut. From the NY/CT state line it is the Maybrook Rail Trail going west where it joins the Dutchess Rail Trail at Hopewell Junction. There has been talk of having a light rail commuter line from Danbury to Southeast Station in NY. But, in my opinion, this is a boondoggle.
1. Wassaic = Wahh-say-ick. 2. Maybrook is west of the Hudson river, there was.a bridge that burned down that that track crossed to get to Maybrook, hence the name Maybrook line. Since the bridge burned down, that segment is no longer there, so it's called the Beacon line by MNRR. However, the bike trail maintainers still call it the Maybrook trail if I recall correctly. Follow I-84 just West of the Stewart Airport to find Maybrook.
Technically the Beacon Line (Beacon Secondary) is the currently existing tracks from Beacon to Hopewell JCT. Then the Beacon Connects to the old Maybrook Mainline and then goes to Brewster and then to Danbury with a JCT with the Harlem in Brewster. The Beacon used to be a part of one of the CNE Railroads that traversed the County up the Millbrook area which also connected to the Harlem Line at Millbrook.
Prior to COVID, Metro north, together with NJ Transit, experimented with running some trains from the NH line to Secaucus Junction on Sundays when one of the NY NFL teams was playing at MetLife Stadium.
Totally understandable to not include this, but Harlem line trains also short turn at Crestwood and North White Plains. Also one more rail route that should probably be considered is the former New York, Westchester and Boston railway's ROW in Eastern Westchester; it was an incredibly impressive railway, and even had four tracks at some parts, but it didn't have a direct connection to Manhattan so it sorta fell apart.
It may be touristy, but I refuse to call grand central station overrated. That place is so fucking beautiful. Ever since the LIRR started running to there, I've been taking trains there, even if penn would be more convenient, just because its such a beautiful building lol. Absolutely love that place.
The Tappan Zee rail line looks very interesting especially if it extends up to New Paltz or Kingston with stops at Vail's Gate, Stewart Airport, and Newburgh. And the city benefits as there will be a significant influx of tourists who don't want to drive from those areas.
Service to Kingston would be really smart because it would open access to areas that are not served. It would also give Amtrak the opportunity to look at west of Hudson service. It would be future proof for any problems the Hudson line may face with climate change, giving Empire Service a possible alternative if sea levels rise or if any other problem on it may be faced. Plus so many old towns still have their iconic historic train stations, like Catskill, which is currently a tire shop
@@rowanjones5401 West of Hudson Amtrak would be complicated by the need to build a second track north of Kingston and build a connection somewhere between CSX's lines and Amtrak. No good connection exists to serve Albany-Rensselaer or Schenectady station from the CSX line the runs up the west bank of the Hudson.
@@VideoFacioVery true. 2nd line north of Kingston would only have to go to just past the bridge in Catskill totally doable. The connect up by Albany would be tough. Maybe create some kind of flyover once you get towards Albany. Build a new station on that side of the river in downtown
Nice overview (except for the "Station" at the intro but I'm sure to that was to see if we were paying attention). An honorable mention should go out to the forlorn NYW&B. The abandoned northern end to White Plains would have been rather handy right now and going forward.
Hi, great video! Not being a local and not knowing much about Metro North this was very enlightening. Heads up: towards the end you mention there is a proposal from Effective Transit Alliance for through running and that the study would be linked in the description, but it doesn't seem to be there 😬
The section west is NJ transit's main/bergen lines and Pasckac valley lines. While the MTA owns the sections in upstate NY all service is operated by NJ transit not Metro North, and the vast majority of ridership is on the New Jersey side.
I live by the Jackson Heights/Roosevelt Av/Broadway station and have family in the Bronx, including Hunts Point, and I would LOVE to have a train between Queens and the Bronx! The triboro express would be amazing but metro north would also be great
Metro north has been blessed with many 4 track lines (almost all of the New Haven line and much of the Harlem and Hudson lines) which makes it workable for reverse commuting. Stamford at least has grown to have quite a large amount of offices.
The Tappan Zee line would like have linked up with the port Jervis line and allowed metro north to actually operate their own trains to GC instead of contracting out to NJT. While that is cool, personally I hoped it would encourage a radial line following the ROW of I-287 and I-95 connecting Tarrytown, White Plains, and Stamford. There is a lot of traffic on those highways and that could help. Although it might make more sense for it to be light rail.
The freight line that would have been used does not connect to the Port Jervis line in Suffern albeit they are very close. It would need lots of construction and would disrupt the walkaility of downtown suffern. The new Mario Cuomo Bridge was designed for light rail starting in Suffern going all the way to White Plains and potentially to Rye to connect the New Haven Line. There was supposed to be stop at Palisades mall as well for a massive park n ride and NJT could theoretically extend the hudson bergen light rail via freight line all the way to the Palisades mall and potentially through Haverstraw and West Point. While Commuter service along the I 287 corridor would be nice, I think it would be better serviced with light rail for more of a local westchester/rockland system. We have plenty of ways to get to NYC fast. we need better local transit, especially in Rockland and Northern Bergen County.
They would have to electrify the west side empire/ Hudson line with third rail for the hudson line metro north trains to access. As for the two lines of the west section of New Jersey and NY territory, requires the Secaucus junction to be built
Overall great video, just a correction that The beacon line west of southeast has been abandoned for some time now, east of southeast has not been abandoned and the MTA included reactivation of the Danbury to southeast connection along the maybrook in their 20 year needs assessment.
Most of metro north operates on a multi phase system. On the Hudson line trains are local between GC and Croton Harmon or express from croton Harmon and local to to Poughkeepsie. The New Haven line Stamford then New Haven. Harlem has 3 phases GC to north white plains then southeast then wassaic. Most of the inner phases have half hourly service during most off peak hours! Although peak trains don’t follow the phases as much. My station on the New Haven line has 6 trains scheduled between 7 and 8 on weekdays!
I'm surprised that you mentioned the rail trail that runs on the old Putnam line, but that you didn't mention that the entire Maybrook Trail path has now also been made into a Rail Trail. Both are part of the Empire State Trail which runs the entire length of the state. For oddball stations you also should mention the Mount Pleasant Station which exists solelt access to the cemetary.
Maybrook Connecticut has both rails and trails together. There's is no landmark on the old Putnam Hudson lines because God for bit if they ever add the train tracks along side the trailer they could also use the CXS and the private metro North diesels and coaches going back to 49 miles and the CXS fraigt going pass 49 miles. Eventually they are definitely gonna have both rails and trails on the Putnam railroad line I tell you that right now. Another thing is definitely gonna happen they are definitely gonna start digging under ground between the old tibbets brook kings Bridge to lay down pipes and sewers under neath the train tracks on tibbets brook kings Bridge water and Bailey Ave to shoot down the dirty water down to the Hudson Harlem River so it will not get flooded in people houses like toilets sinks and bath tubs 14:55 14:55 14:55
One time the cXS company wanted to shell the Putnam railroad private property and the metro North and the long island Railroad told the city lawyers hell no. They are not gonna get rid of the Putnam railroad tracks because the Putnam railroad is own by the metro North railroad. The Putnam railroad is important line .
There really ought to be a west-side Hudson line from Weehawken NJ through Kingston and on to Albany (perhaps continuing westward as it once did). I read somewhere that there was a push for this western Hudson river line in the 80s, but the plan was deemed "not profitable" or some nonsense like that. Whether or not that was true in the 80s, there's definitely HUGE demand for a west side line now. For example, a lot of people drive from Kingston / Woodstock area all the way to Rhinecliff (Amtrak) or Poughkeepsie (metro north), which is insane. The thruway is there, but that's not a viable alternative to rail!
Metro North is electrifying the upper Hudson line so if Harlem/Hudson Penn access happens diesels from Poughkeepsie can be rerouted from diesel service to Harmon, Poughkeepsie, Crestwood, NWP and Southeast trains and the M7 can go to Poughkeepsie. I am really against the Beacon line abandonment project and as I contact elected supporters my new supporting rail system TTT will run on that line before its too late and the tracks get torn apart. I’ve a plan that I’ll have a video for.
MNR is not electrifying the upper Hudson. What they are doing is electrifying one last remaining track that doesn’t have it south and up to Croton. There are no plans for anything north of there
Metro North, and what became New Jersey Transit rail operations, were spun off from Conrail operation at the urging of new Conrail CEO Stan Crane who argued getting rid of all commuter services was key part of making Conrail profitable. The Reagan Administration did not come up with the proposal which was more about making the freight railroad, at the time essentially owned by the US Government, profitable.
Great video, but I was a bit disappointed that you didn't mention the number of tracks on the different sections and the different service patterns with express and local trains
Another cool thing about metro north is that Monthly and weekly tickets can be used around the whole system. As long as you are traveling to a fare zone that has equal or lesser value you can ride!
I always felt a line across Westchester would be great. Just follow along I-287 from Rye/ Portchester over the Hudson and end someplace near Harriman(?) with well place local stops. This would connect all three main lines and the NJ branches. It would also provide commuter service to Westchester hopefully reducing traffic on the Tappan Zee and 287. Also connecting the main lines would give some redundancy in case of problems, IE, con ed power disruption of 2013 Seems like a no-brainer on paper but maybe too big to build in reality?
They stops on the Port Jervis (aka the Southern Tier) are out of order. Otisville is the next to last stop. And Campbell hall and Middletown are in between Salisbury mills and otisville.
There was also the ny Westchester and Boston rr that ceased operations in 1937, its problem it didn’t go into Manhattan,ending at port Morris in the Bronx. Part of the line from e 180 st is actively used as the Lexington avenue #5 train and stops south of Westchester county at dyre ave. Third rail service ends at croton Harmon on the Hudson line.
Please let me know if you think this is viable or not (and why), but for electrification of the empire connection; I was thinking of using catenary wires to avoid the potential conflicts associated with using 2 forms of third rail at Penn station. The MTA already has rolling stock compatible with MNR third rail and catenary wires (Kawasaki M8 on the New Haven Line). Assuming Penn Access is completed for the New Haven, the Metro North will already have M8's ready at Penn Station. Obviously, all of those trains would have to run to Croton Harmen exclusively. Still, it's already established that the majority of Hudson Line customers live at/south of Croton Harmen. For those wishing to go further north, the option to transfer at Croton Harmen is still available and would be a more comfortable ride as compared to the current reality of Hudson Line customers being required to take the Subway/Bus/Taxi/etc if their destination was on the west side of Manhattan. Also, I would just giggle like a school girl if I was able to take an M8 along the Hudson Line since I feel like the design and color palette of the M8's trumps any M7. Anyways thanks for the explainer JTA.
One of the ideas I've seen spitballed in a forum is a Montreal-NYC train and I knew whoever posted it knew their stuff when they put Poughkeepsie as the last stop before Grand Central - the logic being anyone wanting to go anywhere between them could transfer to the Metro-North. OTOH they didn't put a similar stop at Candiac.
I think the current NYP-Montreal calls at Croton-Harmon and Yonkers as well. I think Yonkers is probably superfluous, but Croton-Harmon should be maintained as a stop for Bronx/Westchester electric local riders to transfer to northbound Amtrak services without having to first transfer to a Metro North diesel express to Poughkeepsie.
Making an outer loop from port jervis branch to new haven line and through running with lirr and nj tranist should be the long term goals of the MTA, add elctrification at certain spots like the hudson link and dream project is obviously a penn station-grand central tunnel which would change how amtrak and mta trains throughrun and actually turn the system into a RER style system...
On the Maybrook Line, what about the Coxton-Maybrook symbol freights which along with dieselization was hoped, wrongly as it turned out, to be the salvation of the New York Ontario and Western? And all the RR's that went to Maybrook to interchange with the New Haven for their New England bound traffic? The Lehigh and Hudson which carried the New England traffic of the NKP-W&LE-WM-RDG-L&HR alphabet route's New England traffic as well as the Lehigh and New England, the Erie and of course the NYO&W. NYC also went there but they had their own line to New England, the B&A. And of course you would need to mention the Poughkeepsie Bridge as well.
my grandmother told me there used to be an unofficial "station" between talmadge hill and springdale on the New Canaan line back in the 1950s and maybe 60s too, where the train driver would let her out. I think it was just a small platform for one door. also, what about the abandoned line running from Danbury north to Torrington? Ithink that went up to Great Barrington as well. ps, why would anyone want to go visit Cannondale?
Port Morris branch reactivation is impossible, i am afraid I am currently working on a rezoning project that includes part of the ROW, close to the start.
Curious if anyone else knows. Is Metro-north the only major railway with the third-rail shoes *below* the rail? It's a novelty for American trains I think.
In terms of Hudson Line trains in and out of Penn Station, the question is where to store them-- or, will the thought be that they discharge their passengers at NYP and return back north from that track, either in service or deadheading? Since you're working this around the AMTRAK departures/arrivals, it will take some neat planning and execution.
I take the port jervis line whenever I go into manhattan since I don’t want to drive, but I’ve always wondered why the metro north doesn’t go past Poughkeepsie to Albany?
North of Poughkeepsie is fucking empty, that's why. There's still roughly hourly scheduled Amtrak service that stops at Rhinecliff and Hudson, and not much else in terms of good stop candidates. Going south from Albany, Castleton has no room in town, so that station would have to be either north or south of town and built from scratch, which is a ton of investment for a place that has only 1500 people, so that might just get skipped. Hudson probably needs a redesign; I'd expect MNR would not want to have low platform stations and thus a need for wheelchair lifts. However, a freight line branches just south of the station, complicating a rebuild/redesign. Maybe having the station building at the south end of the platforms would work, but it's complicated. Germantown has only about 2000 people and would need to build a station from scratch or just about, so probably gets skipped. Tivoli is even smaller at about 1000 residents, and would have similar capacity issues to Rhinecliff, though maybe it would end up relieving some of those issues. Tivoli probably also gets skipped though, since the core of the village is about a mile from where the station would probably have to be placed, and there'd be almost no parking space available. Rhinecliff needs more parking and/or a Rhinebeck shuttle, since there's apparently lots of crowding issues there. Hyde Park is probably the only sure thing in terms of a new station on the expansion, and that would require reactivating the old station building, platform construction, and paving a park into a parking lot, for a station where a lot of people might still end up driving to Poughkeepsie anyway for an easier time finding parking. I'm not sure there's enough demand to support a Hudson line extension all the way to Albany. I think a better plan would probably be passing loops or a second track north of Southeast to expand service to Wassaic to be more frequent than every 2 hours. Sure, eastern Dutchess is also pretty empty, but I think Wassaic and Dover Plains are more realistic commuter origins than Albany, which is a 3 hour train journey in any case.
I did not know Metro North had more miles than LIRR, so I learned something. The MNRR is a better run operation at least when I was riding it back in the 1980s. The Harlem line ended at Brewster North when I was riding it. But not all the time. When at peak, the Harlem line skips some stations after White Plains. I don't know if the others ran like this. The Metro North has an agreement with Connecticut to run service there. They subsidizes this service. LIRR has no such agreement. It's like Amtrak with the Metro North. I could get Amtrak at Grand Central Station at one time. I think Amtrak had to pay Metro North to use this station. It's called Grand Central. The Hudson Line was the only tracks that lead to Upstate NY. But those tracks were eventually restored via Riverside Drive to connect to Penn Station. Grand Central never faced the wrecking ball like Penn Station. And it was never as Grand as Penn station. So it took a lot of convincing. RIP 😢😢😢 Penn Hotel
The metro North railroad could definitely run on the old Putnam Hudson lines the deishels and coaches right along side the trailer and just add the fence on the Putnam railroad line including the CXS fraigt lines could definitely run 100 miles and the metro North railroad 49 miles pass croton harmen.
I live in Poughkeepsie & the pictures that were used do not do the station justice, you really can see the similarities from Grand Central Station to the mini Grand Central Poughkeepsie Station. Poughkeepsie is also the end of the Hudson line but it shares the track with Amtrak which goes on the Albany & then Canada...
Danbury branch was electric until sometime in the 1960s and then for some idiotic reason the RR pulled the wires down and switched back to diesel. Every few years CT-DOT claims they want to make it electric again.
13:59 "Metro-North also would need to build trains that work with different types of third rail at Penn Station". No they don't. LIRR and MetroNorth electrical train sets for sure work on both the over-the-rail third rail for LIRR and under-the-rail third rail for MetroNorth. In fact, the LIRR third rail system is going to be expanded slightly from the LIRR main line onto the Hell's Gate line past the point where the overhead wire system changes from the NY to Washington DC system, to the New Haven Line system, so that MetroNorth trains can make it into Penn Station via the Hell's Gate line.
This is a topic in itself, and you are at least somewhat correct from what I can find. At a Reddit discussion on the topic, someone ostensibly well-informed states: "The M8s and M9s have bidirectional third rail shoes that work with either system"
I feel like you could skip the part where you you tell us which stops on the branch are useful. I’m not really sure what you mean by that because technically it’s always going to be your point A and point B that’s useful. Not sure why those specific stops are mentioned
I never traveled to New York City but despite the Metro North and L.I.R.R. commuter metro railroads are very serene and probably have a serene NYC view when they're going in the Upstate or Long Island 저는 뉴욕에 가본 적이 없지만 메트로 노스 통근 지하철 시스템은 매우 조용하고 아마도 뉴욕의 전망이 좋을 것입니다.
Maybe this is why the 7 is need because of this. NJ passengers on MNRR, have to transfer at Secaucus Junction and no way to get their. The 7 Should stop at Hoboken for MNRR, JFK Blvd-Nelson Av, and finally Secaucus Junction this gives Both NJ and NY commuters way to go into each others states. Yes it needs a yard but considering that it was planned, but never came into the light of day. PABT, NJT, and MNRR won't be enough even at the maximum frequencies.
This is stupid. The 7 doesn’t need to extend into Jersey. MNRR will soon connect to Penn Station, providing connects to Path and NJT with ease. We don’t need to fund projects like the 7 extension which would simply be a waste of money for tax payers.
Hell no. The 7 Flushing line definitely needs to be extended to 14 Street Hudson and Bayside Queens while the 11 trains could be extended to 20 college point whitestone Queens elevated in the future. @@Jorge-lh6px
The 7 Flushing line could definitely be extended to 14 street Hudson yards while the 11 trains could definitely be extended to 20 college point whitestone Queens elevated while the 7 Flushing line being extended to Bayside Queens.
The Putnam railroad line could definitely be brought back to life and just and add the private metro North railroad line and the CXS fraigt trains at late nights.
The 7 Flushing line will never be extended to new Jersey I tell you that right now dogs 🐕. They could definitely have the metro North railroad or the Long Island railroad or the new Acela Amtrak or the path trains. The 7 Flushing line is definitely not a railroad.
So if they can extend 1 of the lines east of the Hudson to run on the Tappan Zee Bridge does that mean it can connect with 1 of the lines west of the Hudson or no?
(DISCLAIMER, I’m a 179th street (E) train Fanboy) I’m surprised it’s not the (E) because it’s a perfect embodiment of NYC, minus the fact it’s not elevated.
I think the best bet for MNRR Hudson Line Penn Station Access as far as equipment use is battery operated trains, like CT Rail is doing for the Hartford Line!!!
Time Square is beautiful. People that dont like the giant led billboards in cities should just accept reality and move to the country home in the woods that was meant for them.
The map at 8:07 is inaccurate. The order is Port Jervis, Ottisville, Middletown, and then Campbell Hall.
similar issue at 8:26 with the PV line, westwood is next to hillsdale and all of the other stations get shifted down one from there
Hi! Metro North employee here! Stations that I’m surprised aren’t seriously being discussed are passenger stations built at or near Highbridge and Sunnyside yard. Highbridge is simply because that neighborhood could really use rail options considering though on paper it’s close to Yankee and Morris Heights station, the rough terrain makes it difficult to reach them outside of car or bus. Also would make for a very quick commute to the Highbridge itself. And Sunnyside would provide a really vital transfer from the Metro North and Lirr without needing to go into Manhattan, cutting down times significantly going from say Connecticut to Long Island.
The New Haven Union Station is iconic, with a station house similar to Poughkeepsie, and the space-age tunnels to the trains
Why is it iconic?
It went renovation before the pandemic. They updated a lot of things. I do miss the board now being changed to a digital one
White Plains used to have a "mini-Grand Central" too. Yonkers still does.
If you want to talk about former branches, you should consider the Mahopac Branch which ran from the Harlem Division just south of Golden's Bridge station to Mahopac station on the Putnam Division.
The Getty Square Branch of the Putnam Division also used to have a funicular railroad from Park Hill NYC station to Alta Avenue in the Park Hill section of Southwest Yonkers.
It’s not an active train terminal anymore but the Lackawanna Terminal in Scranton, PA is gorgeous. Radisson turned it into a hotel. I was just there this past weekend having a drink with my wife. Unbelievable place.
I grew up riding the Hudson Line when I lived in Tarrytown! The Hudson Line is an incredible line, as not only does it have spectacular views of the Hudson Palisades and Hudson Highlands, but most of the electrified zone has four tracks (usually two express and local tracks in each direction), it has Manitou and Breakneck Ridge for hikers, it's shared as part of Amtrak's Empire Corridor, there's connecting peak ferry service at Ossining and Beacon to go across the Hudson to Haverstraw and Newburgh respectively, you can take it for Yankees games at Yankees-East 153rd St, and the suburbs along the Hudson Line like Yonkers and Tarrytown are walkable! The Park Avenue main line was initially a street railroad built by the New York and Harlem Railroad and ran to what is now Lower Manhattan. In fact, the New York and Harlem Railroad was the WORLD'S first street railway! The railroad's ROW at ground level forced foot and carriage traffic onto either side of the tracks, so they built the Murray Hill Tunnel in 1834, an open cut tunnel. So Park Ave is called such for the grates and grass covering the tunnel! In 1907, the streetcar operator New York City Railway went into receivership. The New York Railways Corporation converted the line to bus operation in the 1930s. The Murray Hill Tunnel now carries a lane of road traffic, but not bus-only. The Park Avenue main line was gradually truncated through the 1860s, until Grand Central Depot was opened in 1871. The line was placed in a grade-separated structure in the late 19th century as part of the Fourth Avenue and Park Avenue Improvement projects and was electrified in the first decade of the 20th century as part of the construction of Grand Central Terminal which opened in 1913. And the Murray Hill Tunnel is not the only former streetcar tunnel in NYC converted to something else, as the Steinway Tunnel now used by IRT Flushing Line trains was also meant for streetcars. The Steinway Tunnel is named for William Steinway, and during the 1890s, Steinway began a project to construct a tunnel for trolleys under the East River to link Manhattan to his company town, Steinway Village, in Astoria. The dirt removed from the tunnels was formed into a small island in the middle of the East River, now called U Thant Island after the third secretary-general of the United Nations from 1961 to 1971!
The views of the Hudson River Palisades are definitely my favorite thing about the Hudson Line, especially during Fall with all the foliage! Palisade is derived from pale, ultimately from the Latin word palus, meaning stake. The Lenape called the cliffs "rocks that look like rows of trees", a phrase that became "Weehawken"! They're basalt cliffs, the margin of a diabase sill, formed about 200 million years ago at the close of the Triassic period by the intrusion of molten magma upward into sandstone. When the trapped magma first intruded into the Triassic layers of sedimentary rock, it was so hot that contact metamorphism occurred, altering the rock around it. In the case of the Palisades, the magma cooled under the sedimentary layers, forming a sill made of igneous diabase about 40 miles long and 1,000 feet thick. During this time, crustal movements along the Ramapo fault tilted the entire region downward about 17 degrees to the west. Water erosion of the softer sandstone left behind the columnar structure of harder rock that exists today! The Palisades were the site of 18 documented duels and probably many unrecorded ones in the years 1798-1845. The most famous duel was of course the Burr-Hamilton duel which took place in Weehawken in July 1804! It also played a role during the American Revolution, as in the wake of the rebel's defeat in the Battle of Brooklyn and the Battle of Fort Washington, British commander Lord Cornwallis marched his men up the Palisades to try to ambush George Washington. Washington, stationed near Fort Lee, was alerted to the ambush by an unknown horseback patriot, and successfully fled west through Englewood and over the Hackensack River, avoiding capture in what is remembered as Washington's Retreat
That was a lot of info! Fun fact about the Palisades - builders were ruining them by removing the stone to build brownstones in the city.
The rich like JP Morgan and the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts worked to save them by helping to set up the Palisades Interstate Park Commission which helped acquire the lands & stop the quarrying that had been going on. They also put in the Parkway.
Wassaic is pronounced "Wah-say-ick", similar to Passaic in NJ! Something to note about the Port Jervis and Pascack Valley Lines is that while considered MNR on a MNR map, they're operated by NJ Transit while under contract with MNR. Although MTA subsidizes the Port Jervis Line service and maintains all of the facilities (except for Suffern), the trains are operated by NJT personnel, and the ticket vending machines on station platforms are NJT. There's a reason it makes that U-shape. The portions of the line from Suffern to Harriman and from Otisville to Port Jervis were built as the Erie mainline, opening to Port Jervis in 1848. The route south of Suffern is slightly younger (connected for through service in 1853), as the original mainline ran east from Suffern to Piermont. The portion from Harriman to Otisville was built in the 1900s as a low-level freight bypass named the Graham Line. This portion of the line bypasses the original Erie mainline through Monroe, Chester, Goshen and Middletown. The Graham Line has no grade crossings, which was a rarity on the Erie. The downside of the improved grade and curvature is that the Graham Line is seven miles longer than the original mainline. Maintaining the desired grade required building the Otisville Tunnel and the Moodna Viaduct. The Moodna Viaduct spans the Moodna Creek valley for 3,200 ft and is 193 ft high at its highest point, making it the second-highest and second-longest railroad trestle east of the Mississippi River, after the 1889 Poughkeepsie Bridge that's now the Walkway over the Hudson, which means the Moodna Viaduct is the highest and longest ACTIVE railroad trestle east of the Mississippi. The Otisville Tunnel is the longest tunnel in the MNR system, at 5,314 feet in length. Norfolk Southern shares the use of the track for local freight operations between Suffern and Port Jervis.
Appalachian Trail station on the Harlem Line isn't the only station for hikers on MNR! Appalachian Trail station stands out not just for its look, but it's also the ONLY station directly on the Appalachian Trail! As in, no other station in the US is directly on the trail! Breakneck Ridge and Manitou on the Hudson Line are two other stations for hikers! Manitou and Breakneck Ridge serve the Hudson Highlands, with Manitou serving the nearby Bear Mountain State Park and Anthony's Nose while Breakneck Ridge serves its namesake. And the New Haven Line is also useful if you're going to Yale University in New Haven or connecting to CT Rail and Amtrak's Hartford Line, Amtrak Valley Flyer, or CT Rail Shore Line East trains in New Haven as well. It's also worth mentioning that the New Haven Line and Harlem Line has special gameday service for Yankees games (hence the New Haven Line train at 2:10), a stop typically only used by Hudson Line trains, as they use a wye at Mott Haven interlocking to reach Yankee Stadium on game days. At one point in time, the New Haven Line also had game day service to the Meadowlands for Sunday 1 pm Giants and Jets games. The service was operated using NJ Transit equipment under an operating agreement among NJT, Metro-North, and Amtrak. NJT equipment was required as its electric locomotive power was capable of running under the various catenary systems over three separate railroads using different power supplies. The program was only offered for the early afternoon games so that the NJT equipment could be moved back in place for the Monday morning rush hour. The train didn't go direct to the Meadowlands of course, they still had to change to a shuttle train at Secaucus.
1) The rail line along the west side of the Hudson is very active, but only with freight.
2) If you take a train south from Poughkeepsie: A) on Amtrak, you end up at Penn Station, B) on Metro North Hudson you end up at Grand Central. So, yes, the systems are sort of interconnected.
3) You show a picture of 153rd Street-Yankee Stadium. That is only accessible on the Metro North Hudson line.
4) Amtrak and MTA trains use both diesel and electric power. Can't run diesel into Grand Central or Penn, except in an emergency. The problem between MTA and Amtrak is that they use incompatible third-rail power shoe pickups --- Amtrak/Penn use overrunning shoes while MTA/GCT use underrunning shoes. LIRR uses overrunning, which complicates GC Madison.
5) You can get into arguments over the "Tappan Zee" Bridge. The official name is the Mario M. Cuomo Bridge. NY Turnpike Authority forgot the middle initial on the original signage and had to replace it at non-trivial expense.
No one in Westchester calls it that Mario M. Cuomo Bridge. It's the Tappan Zee.
Thank you for not calling it the Cuomo bridge! Tappan zee forever.
As a life long Westchester resident, metro north is my main train service and have always been fascinated since I was a kid.
Why not just call any road or bridge whatever pleases you and wonder why incompetent drivers get lost?
You neglected to mention that the West of Hudson services are actually operated and ticketed by NJ Transit.
That means it isn’t Metro north then?
@@okay2439it both Mta run ticket from Harriman to port Jervis and njt runs ticket for the rest
@@okay2439 NJ Transit has a contract to operate them for Metro North.
You didn't include Westwood in its correct location on your Pascack Valley Line map! It's between Hillsdale and Emerson. New Haven Line stands out in that its electric trains switch from catenary to third-rail, similarly to the MBTA Blue Line! Trains between New Haven and Mount Vernon East follow the Northeast Corridor and uses overhead catenary, while between Pelham and Grand Central Terminal, it uses third-rail. All New Haven Line electric trains change over between third-rail and overhead catenary between Mount Vernon East and Pelham at normal track speed. As they transition, the third-rail shoes stay in the same position both in and out of third rail territory. Both catenary and third rail overlap for a quarter-mile between Mount Vernon East and Pelham to facilitate this changeover. Regarding the Beacon Line, we already have a verdict, it's not happening. In February 2021, Metro-North announced it would file with the Surface Transportation Board to seek an adverse discontinuance of the Housatonic Railroad's trackage rights over the section between Beacon and the Connecticut border, allowing MNR to abandon the line and convert it to a trail, an extension of the Empire State Trail. The Housatonic was initially opposed, discussed a settlement of the issue in September 2022, and they notified the Surface Transportation Board it was no longer opposing the abandonment in January 2023. The STB denied Metro-North's abandonment and trail conversion request in July 2023, citing procedural and legal issues with the filing, but Metro-North again filed for abandonment in December 2023 and the filing was approved and took effect in February 2024. The Maybrook Branch was formerly known as the Maybrook Line, which connected the Waterbury Branch with Maybrook Yard in Maybrook, Orange County, where it interchanged with other carriers. It was the main east-west freight route of the New Haven until its merger with the Penn Central in 1969.
And man, I love Grand Central Terminal. Some interesting stuff about GCT's ceiling: Original plans called for the ceiling to contain a skylight, but money and time ran out, so a mural was painted instead. It was conceived in 1912 by architect Warren and painter Paul César Helleu. Helleu originally had come to the United States for a three-month stay to create portraits of eight women for a Parisian magazine, but he sketched a conceptual design for Warren. Helleu worked from a chart given by Columbia University astronomy professor Harold Jacoby, who had derived it from the Uranometria, a scientifically accurate star atlas published in 1603. The mural was executed in 1913 by James Monroe Hewlett and Charles Basing of Hewlett-Basing Studio. They were assisted in the design by Helleu and multiple astronomers, and in the painting by more than 50 painting assistants. Around 63 electric bulbs were installed to amplify the visual impact of the stars! Less than two months after the terminal opened, one commuter noticed that the ceiling's design was actually backwards, west is east and east is west. Both Jacoby and Basing were asked how the ceiling’s layout could have gotten flipped. Jacoby offered the explanation that the original diagram had been laid out correctly and would match perfectly against a celestial atlas. As such, the diagram was meant to be held overhead. When the image was projected onto the ceiling for painting, Basing (according to Jacoby) must have laid it on the floor and projected it upwards, reversing the image. As for Basing, he “showed little interest in the technical defects and added that he thought the work had been done very well.” So the entire artwork is reversed left-to-right from the Uranometria and the night sky...except for Orion! In the 1940s, they covered the ceiling in cement and stuff because the roof leaked and this lacked the bulbs to imitate the stars, but in the 1990s, because of dirt buildup on the new ceiling, the ceiling boards were cleaned and repainted, and lights were installed into the ceiling boards to imitate the stars. A single dark patch near the crab constellation was left untouched by renovators to remind visitors of the grime that once covered the ceiling
The things you learn about Metro North, LIRR and the subway system are very intriguing.
LIRR and then MNRR your expanding your regional rail content alot
MNR*
Very interesting and informational. Keep up the GREAT WORK !!!!!
That was very interesting. I don't know if you are aware, but there is more history of the Port Jervis line. Back in the 1970's the rail line used to run through the downtown sections of Middletown, Goshen, Chester, Monroe and Harriman. There were stations in each village. For some reason they decided to cut off the line through the villages and transferred both freight and commuter services to the current line that loops through open countryside in Orange County. It severely affected businesses in all of those villages. It also greatly reduced ridership along this line. It did open the area in the rural area to more suburban development that served people working in NYC.
The Main Line of the Metro North heading northbound out of Grand Central Terminal crosses the Harlem River into the Bronx, not the Hudson River.
Side note, Grand Central Station is the name of the US Post Office. The railroad occupies Grand Central Terminal.
Other thing to note: At New Haven, there is an ivy league college a mile north of the station which is Yale University. It’s also useful to getting there from NYC
Metro-North does not operate any trains west of the Hudson. All trains are operated by NJ Transit under contract to and subsidized by Metro-North over trackage right of way. NJ Transit route miles is also longer than Metro-North or LIRR, but 3rd in number of passengers.
The information mentioned about Beacon / Maybrook line at the 11:00 minute mark is incorrect. While tracks are there, the line is severed in several places and is not passable. No train traffic has been on that line for over a decade and the MTA has filed for permanent abandonment of it. Currently, there is a paved rail trail adjacent to a single set of tracks (it was a 2 track right of way) from the CT/NY border all the way west to where it connect with the Walkway over the Hudson bridge.
The Beacon line doesn't connect to Poughkeepsie and the Walkway. Only Beacon. Hence the name. The Maybrook Trailway meets the Dutchess County Rail Trail at Hopewell Junction, where the DCRT proceeds northwest to Poughkeepsie and the defunct Beacon line travels west to southwest to meet the Hudson line just south of Beacon station.
Great video and history. The line between Beacon, NY and Danbury, CT is in total disrepair, except for the portion in Connecticut. From the NY/CT state line it is the Maybrook Rail Trail going west where it joins the Dutchess Rail Trail at Hopewell Junction. There has been talk of having a light rail commuter line from Danbury to Southeast Station in NY. But, in my opinion, this is a boondoggle.
1. Wassaic = Wahh-say-ick.
2. Maybrook is west of the Hudson river, there was.a bridge that burned down that that track crossed to get to Maybrook, hence the name Maybrook line. Since the bridge burned down, that segment is no longer there, so it's called the Beacon line by MNRR. However, the bike trail maintainers still call it the Maybrook trail if I recall correctly. Follow I-84 just West of the Stewart Airport to find Maybrook.
Technically the Beacon Line (Beacon Secondary) is the currently existing tracks from Beacon to Hopewell JCT. Then the Beacon Connects to the old Maybrook Mainline and then goes to Brewster and then to Danbury with a JCT with the Harlem in Brewster. The Beacon used to be a part of one of the CNE Railroads that traversed the County up the Millbrook area which also connected to the Harlem Line at Millbrook.
Prior to COVID, Metro north, together with NJ Transit, experimented with running some trains from the NH line to Secaucus Junction on Sundays when one of the NY NFL teams was playing at MetLife Stadium.
Totally understandable to not include this, but Harlem line trains also short turn at Crestwood and North White Plains. Also one more rail route that should probably be considered is the former New York, Westchester and Boston railway's ROW in Eastern Westchester; it was an incredibly impressive railway, and even had four tracks at some parts, but it didn't have a direct connection to Manhattan so it sorta fell apart.
I imagine if the NYW&B still existed it would be a branch of the New Haven line from Mount Vernon East up to Westchester Ave.
It may be touristy, but I refuse to call grand central station overrated. That place is so fucking beautiful. Ever since the LIRR started running to there, I've been taking trains there, even if penn would be more convenient, just because its such a beautiful building lol. Absolutely love that place.
The Tappan Zee rail line looks very interesting especially if it extends up to New Paltz or Kingston with stops at Vail's Gate, Stewart Airport, and Newburgh. And the city benefits as there will be a significant influx of tourists who don't want to drive from those areas.
Service to Kingston would be really smart because it would open access to areas that are not served. It would also give Amtrak the opportunity to look at west of Hudson service. It would be future proof for any problems the Hudson line may face with climate change, giving Empire Service a possible alternative if sea levels rise or if any other problem on it may be faced. Plus so many old towns still have their iconic historic train stations, like Catskill, which is currently a tire shop
@@rowanjones5401 West of Hudson Amtrak would be complicated by the need to build a second track north of Kingston and build a connection somewhere between CSX's lines and Amtrak. No good connection exists to serve Albany-Rensselaer or Schenectady station from the CSX line the runs up the west bank of the Hudson.
@@VideoFacioVery true. 2nd line north of Kingston would only have to go to just past the bridge in Catskill totally doable. The connect up by Albany would be tough. Maybe create some kind of flyover once you get towards Albany. Build a new station on that side of the river in downtown
FYI end of the Danbury branch there is a rail museum with a bunch of great rolling stock
You missed the I-287 Rail corridor and the PVL to Main line restoration, which started construction but was sheveled when the 287 rail was canceled.
Yeah that 287 line rail would have been a game changer
Respectfully, the LIRR is my favorite railroad. But I do like MNRR, too.
Nice overview (except for the "Station" at the intro but I'm sure to that was to see if we were paying attention). An honorable mention should go out to the forlorn NYW&B. The abandoned northern end to White Plains would have been rather handy right now and going forward.
It’s ridiculous how SLOW the metro north is. 2 hours to get to New Haven is criminal
Hi, great video! Not being a local and not knowing much about Metro North this was very enlightening. Heads up: towards the end you mention there is a proposal from Effective Transit Alliance for through running and that the study would be linked in the description, but it doesn't seem to be there 😬
The section west is NJ transit's main/bergen lines and Pasckac valley lines. While the MTA owns the sections in upstate NY all service is operated by NJ transit not Metro North, and the vast majority of ridership is on the New Jersey side.
Great explainer video. Thanks!
I live by the Jackson Heights/Roosevelt Av/Broadway station and have family in the Bronx, including Hunts Point, and I would LOVE to have a train between Queens and the Bronx! The triboro express would be amazing but metro north would also be great
I live in Parkchester I can't wait 👍
Metro north has been blessed with many 4 track lines (almost all of the New Haven line and much of the Harlem and Hudson lines) which makes it workable for reverse commuting. Stamford at least has grown to have quite a large amount of offices.
The Tappan Zee line would like have linked up with the port Jervis line and allowed metro north to actually operate their own trains to GC instead of contracting out to NJT.
While that is cool, personally I hoped it would encourage a radial line following the ROW of I-287 and I-95 connecting Tarrytown, White Plains, and Stamford. There is a lot of traffic on those highways and that could help. Although it might make more sense for it to be light rail.
The freight line that would have been used does not connect to the Port Jervis line in Suffern albeit they are very close. It would need lots of construction and would disrupt the walkaility of downtown suffern. The new Mario Cuomo Bridge was designed for light rail starting in Suffern going all the way to White Plains and potentially to Rye to connect the New Haven Line. There was supposed to be stop at Palisades mall as well for a massive park n ride and NJT could theoretically extend the hudson bergen light rail via freight line all the way to the Palisades mall and potentially through Haverstraw and West Point. While Commuter service along the I 287 corridor would be nice, I think it would be better serviced with light rail for more of a local westchester/rockland system. We have plenty of ways to get to NYC fast. we need better local transit, especially in Rockland and Northern Bergen County.
They would have to electrify the west side empire/ Hudson line with third rail for the hudson line metro north trains to access. As for the two lines of the west section of New Jersey and NY territory, requires the Secaucus junction to be built
Overall great video, just a correction that The beacon line west of southeast has been abandoned for some time now, east of southeast has not been abandoned and the MTA included reactivation of the Danbury to southeast connection along the maybrook in their 20 year needs assessment.
high quality concise presentation of all necessary information
Most of metro north operates on a multi phase system. On the Hudson line trains are local between GC and Croton Harmon or express from croton Harmon and local to to Poughkeepsie. The New Haven line Stamford then New Haven. Harlem has 3 phases GC to north white plains then southeast then wassaic. Most of the inner phases have half hourly service during most off peak hours! Although peak trains don’t follow the phases as much. My station on the New Haven line has 6 trains scheduled between 7 and 8 on weekdays!
I am from NYC and didn't know there was an Appalachian trail stop! That's so neat
I'm surprised that you mentioned the rail trail that runs on the old Putnam line, but that you didn't mention that the entire Maybrook Trail path has now also been made into a Rail Trail.
Both are part of the Empire State Trail which runs the entire length of the state.
For oddball stations you also should mention the Mount Pleasant Station which exists solelt access to the cemetary.
Maybrook Connecticut has both rails and trails together. There's is no landmark on the old Putnam Hudson lines because God for bit if they ever add the train tracks along side the trailer they could also use the CXS and the private metro North diesels and coaches going back to 49 miles and the CXS fraigt going pass 49 miles. Eventually they are definitely gonna have both rails and trails on the Putnam railroad line I tell you that right now. Another thing is definitely gonna happen they are definitely gonna start digging under ground between the old tibbets brook kings Bridge to lay down pipes and sewers under neath the train tracks on tibbets brook kings Bridge water and Bailey Ave to shoot down the dirty water down to the Hudson Harlem River so it will not get flooded in people houses like toilets sinks and bath tubs 14:55 14:55 14:55
One time the cXS company wanted to shell the Putnam railroad private property and the metro North and the long island Railroad told the city lawyers hell no. They are not gonna get rid of the Putnam railroad tracks because the Putnam railroad is own by the metro North railroad. The Putnam railroad is important line .
There really ought to be a west-side Hudson line from Weehawken NJ through Kingston and on to Albany (perhaps continuing westward as it once did). I read somewhere that there was a push for this western Hudson river line in the 80s, but the plan was deemed "not profitable" or some nonsense like that. Whether or not that was true in the 80s, there's definitely HUGE demand for a west side line now. For example, a lot of people drive from Kingston / Woodstock area all the way to Rhinecliff (Amtrak) or Poughkeepsie (metro north), which is insane. The thruway is there, but that's not a viable alternative to rail!
Love how you say "Railroad." Ro-road :-)
Metro North is electrifying the upper Hudson line so if Harlem/Hudson Penn access happens diesels from Poughkeepsie can be rerouted from diesel service to Harmon, Poughkeepsie, Crestwood, NWP and Southeast trains and the M7 can go to Poughkeepsie. I am really against the Beacon line abandonment project and as I contact elected supporters my new supporting rail system TTT will run on that line before its too late and the tracks get torn apart. I’ve a plan that I’ll have a video for.
MNR is not electrifying the upper Hudson. What they are doing is electrifying one last remaining track that doesn’t have it south and up to Croton. There are no plans for anything north of there
@@k8tieisjusthere123Was about to say. It’d be awesome if they electrified north. But it should be overhead for better and cleaner service to Albany.
The Park Ave Main Line doesn't cross the Hudson.
Metro North, and what became New Jersey Transit rail operations, were spun off from Conrail operation at the urging of new Conrail CEO Stan Crane who argued getting rid of all commuter services was key part of making Conrail profitable. The Reagan Administration did not come up with the proposal which was more about making the freight railroad, at the time essentially owned by the US Government, profitable.
4:44 that's the harlem river not hudson river
Great video, but I was a bit disappointed that you didn't mention the number of tracks on the different sections and the different service patterns with express and local trains
Another cool thing about metro north is that Monthly and weekly tickets can be used around the whole system. As long as you are traveling to a fare zone that has equal or lesser value you can ride!
I always felt a line across Westchester would be great. Just follow along I-287 from Rye/ Portchester over the Hudson and end someplace near Harriman(?) with well place local stops.
This would connect all three main lines and the NJ branches. It would also provide commuter service to Westchester hopefully reducing traffic on the Tappan Zee and 287. Also connecting the main lines would give some redundancy in case of problems, IE, con ed power disruption of 2013
Seems like a no-brainer on paper but maybe too big to build in reality?
They stops on the Port Jervis (aka the Southern Tier) are out of order. Otisville is the next to last stop. And Campbell hall and Middletown are in between Salisbury mills and otisville.
There was also the ny Westchester and Boston rr that ceased operations in 1937, its problem it didn’t go into Manhattan,ending at port Morris in the Bronx. Part of the line from e 180 st is actively used as the Lexington avenue #5 train and stops south of Westchester county at dyre ave. Third rail service ends at croton Harmon on the Hudson line.
Please let me know if you think this is viable or not (and why), but for electrification of the empire connection; I was thinking of using catenary wires to avoid the potential conflicts associated with using 2 forms of third rail at Penn station. The MTA already has rolling stock compatible with MNR third rail and catenary wires (Kawasaki M8 on the New Haven Line). Assuming Penn Access is completed for the New Haven, the Metro North will already have M8's ready at Penn Station. Obviously, all of those trains would have to run to Croton Harmen exclusively. Still, it's already established that the majority of Hudson Line customers live at/south of Croton Harmen. For those wishing to go further north, the option to transfer at Croton Harmen is still available and would be a more comfortable ride as compared to the current reality of Hudson Line customers being required to take the Subway/Bus/Taxi/etc if their destination was on the west side of Manhattan. Also, I would just giggle like a school girl if I was able to take an M8 along the Hudson Line since I feel like the design and color palette of the M8's trumps any M7. Anyways thanks for the explainer JTA.
One of the ideas I've seen spitballed in a forum is a Montreal-NYC train and I knew whoever posted it knew their stuff when they put Poughkeepsie as the last stop before Grand Central - the logic being anyone wanting to go anywhere between them could transfer to the Metro-North. OTOH they didn't put a similar stop at Candiac.
I think the current NYP-Montreal calls at Croton-Harmon and Yonkers as well. I think Yonkers is probably superfluous, but Croton-Harmon should be maintained as a stop for Bronx/Westchester electric local riders to transfer to northbound Amtrak services without having to first transfer to a Metro North diesel express to Poughkeepsie.
Making an outer loop from port jervis branch to new haven line and through running with lirr and nj tranist should be the long term goals of the MTA, add elctrification at certain spots like the hudson link and dream project is obviously a penn station-grand central tunnel which would change how amtrak and mta trains throughrun and actually turn the system into a RER style system...
On the Maybrook Line, what about the Coxton-Maybrook symbol freights which along with dieselization was hoped, wrongly as it turned out, to be the salvation of the New York Ontario and Western? And all the RR's that went to Maybrook to interchange with the New Haven for their New England bound traffic? The Lehigh and Hudson which carried the New England traffic of the NKP-W&LE-WM-RDG-L&HR alphabet route's New England traffic as well as the Lehigh and New England, the Erie and of course the NYO&W. NYC also went there but they had their own line to New England, the B&A. And of course you would need to mention the Poughkeepsie Bridge as well.
0:33 should be "Grand Central Terminal"
Also, the abandoned Ridgefield Line is kinda interesting.
White Plains had a big beautiful brick station as well but they knocked it down
so interesting!
That old line in the Bronx that wasn’t built for longer rail cars could probably accommodate tram cars.
8:15 Westwood should be in between Hillsdale and Emerson
my grandmother told me there used to be an unofficial "station" between talmadge hill and springdale on the New Canaan line back in the 1950s and maybe 60s too, where the train driver would let her out. I think it was just a small platform for one door. also, what about the abandoned line running from Danbury north to Torrington? Ithink that went up to Great Barrington as well. ps, why would anyone want to go visit Cannondale?
It's wild that a non accessable station was built openned in 1990. I suppose that's before ADA took stronghold, but still
Aside from Times Square and maybe Statue of Liberty; Central Park, Empire State building and Grand Central are not overrated.
With congestion pricing not taking place. There isn't cash stream to fund new capital improvement projects.
No freight or trains on the Beacon line
Port Morris branch reactivation is impossible, i am afraid
I am currently working on a rezoning project that includes part of the ROW, close to the start.
penn station aces should have a subway connection station at the astoria metro terminal.
Curious if anyone else knows. Is Metro-north the only major railway with the third-rail shoes *below* the rail? It's a novelty for American trains I think.
In terms of Hudson Line trains in and out of Penn Station, the question is where to store them-- or, will the thought be that they discharge their passengers at NYP and return back north from that track, either in service or deadheading? Since you're working this around the AMTRAK departures/arrivals, it will take some neat planning and execution.
The empire connection is fairly underutilized. I suspect it could fit 3-4 tracks, some of which could be used as storage.
I take the port jervis line whenever I go into manhattan since I don’t want to drive, but I’ve always wondered why the metro north doesn’t go past Poughkeepsie to Albany?
North of Poughkeepsie is fucking empty, that's why. There's still roughly hourly scheduled Amtrak service that stops at Rhinecliff and Hudson, and not much else in terms of good stop candidates.
Going south from Albany, Castleton has no room in town, so that station would have to be either north or south of town and built from scratch, which is a ton of investment for a place that has only 1500 people, so that might just get skipped. Hudson probably needs a redesign; I'd expect MNR would not want to have low platform stations and thus a need for wheelchair lifts. However, a freight line branches just south of the station, complicating a rebuild/redesign. Maybe having the station building at the south end of the platforms would work, but it's complicated. Germantown has only about 2000 people and would need to build a station from scratch or just about, so probably gets skipped.
Tivoli is even smaller at about 1000 residents, and would have similar capacity issues to Rhinecliff, though maybe it would end up relieving some of those issues. Tivoli probably also gets skipped though, since the core of the village is about a mile from where the station would probably have to be placed, and there'd be almost no parking space available. Rhinecliff needs more parking and/or a Rhinebeck shuttle, since there's apparently lots of crowding issues there. Hyde Park is probably the only sure thing in terms of a new station on the expansion, and that would require reactivating the old station building, platform construction, and paving a park into a parking lot, for a station where a lot of people might still end up driving to Poughkeepsie anyway for an easier time finding parking.
I'm not sure there's enough demand to support a Hudson line extension all the way to Albany. I think a better plan would probably be passing loops or a second track north of Southeast to expand service to Wassaic to be more frequent than every 2 hours. Sure, eastern Dutchess is also pretty empty, but I think Wassaic and Dover Plains are more realistic commuter origins than Albany, which is a 3 hour train journey in any case.
I did not know Metro North had more miles than LIRR, so I learned something. The MNRR is a better run operation at least when I was riding it back in the 1980s.
The Harlem line ended at Brewster North when I was riding it. But not all the time.
When at peak, the Harlem line skips some stations after White Plains. I don't know if the others ran like this.
The Metro North has an agreement with Connecticut to run service there. They subsidizes this service. LIRR has no such agreement.
It's like Amtrak with the Metro North.
I could get Amtrak at Grand Central Station at one time. I think Amtrak had to pay Metro North to use this station. It's called Grand Central.
The Hudson Line was the only tracks that lead to Upstate NY. But those tracks were eventually restored via Riverside Drive to connect to Penn Station.
Grand Central never faced the wrecking ball like Penn Station. And it was never as Grand as Penn station. So it took a lot of convincing.
RIP 😢😢😢 Penn Hotel
4:33 The Park Avenue Main Line doesn't cross the Hudson River.
Awesome video!
The metro North railroad could definitely run on the old Putnam Hudson lines the deishels and coaches right along side the trailer and just add the fence on the Putnam railroad line including the CXS fraigt lines could definitely run 100 miles and the metro North railroad 49 miles pass croton harmen.
I live in Poughkeepsie & the pictures that were used do not do the station justice, you really can see the similarities from Grand Central Station to the mini Grand Central Poughkeepsie Station. Poughkeepsie is also the end of the Hudson line but it shares the track with Amtrak which goes on the Albany & then Canada...
Danbury branch was electric until sometime in the 1960s and then for some idiotic reason the RR pulled the wires down and switched back to diesel. Every few years CT-DOT claims they want to make it electric again.
1961.
13:59 "Metro-North also would need to build trains that work with different types of third rail at Penn Station".
No they don't. LIRR and MetroNorth electrical train sets for sure work on both the over-the-rail third rail for LIRR and under-the-rail third rail for MetroNorth. In fact, the LIRR third rail system is going to be expanded slightly from the LIRR main line onto the Hell's Gate line past the point where the overhead wire system changes from the NY to Washington DC system, to the New Haven Line system, so that MetroNorth trains can make it into Penn Station via the Hell's Gate line.
This is a topic in itself, and you are at least somewhat correct from what I can find. At a Reddit discussion on the topic, someone ostensibly well-informed states:
"The M8s and M9s have bidirectional third rail shoes that work with either system"
Further more informed discussion if this title is Googled:
"Could M-8 style 3rd rail shoe enable conversion?"
I feel like you could skip the part where you you tell us which stops on the branch are useful. I’m not really sure what you mean by that because technically it’s always going to be your point A and point B that’s useful. Not sure why those specific stops are mentioned
I never traveled to New York City but despite the Metro North and L.I.R.R. commuter metro railroads are very serene and probably have a serene NYC view when they're going in the Upstate or Long Island
저는 뉴욕에 가본 적이 없지만 메트로 노스 통근 지하철 시스템은 매우 조용하고 아마도 뉴욕의 전망이 좋을 것입니다.
Thank you
I didn't realize that Conrail had run passenger trains thinking that it was purely freight and it's passenger relative was Amtrak.
Maybe this is why the 7 is need because of this. NJ passengers on MNRR, have to transfer at Secaucus Junction and no way to get their. The 7 Should stop at Hoboken for MNRR, JFK Blvd-Nelson Av, and finally Secaucus Junction this gives Both NJ and NY commuters way to go into each others states.
Yes it needs a yard but considering that it was planned, but never came into the light of day. PABT, NJT, and MNRR won't be enough even at the maximum frequencies.
This is stupid. The 7 doesn’t need to extend into Jersey. MNRR will soon connect to Penn Station, providing connects to Path and NJT with ease. We don’t need to fund projects like the 7 extension which would simply be a waste of money for tax payers.
Hell no. The 7 Flushing line definitely needs to be extended to 14 Street Hudson and Bayside Queens while the 11 trains could be extended to 20 college point whitestone Queens elevated in the future. @@Jorge-lh6px
The 7 Flushing line could definitely be extended to 14 street Hudson yards while the 11 trains could definitely be extended to 20 college point whitestone Queens elevated while the 7 Flushing line being extended to Bayside Queens.
The Putnam railroad line could definitely be brought back to life and just and add the private metro North railroad line and the CXS fraigt trains at late nights.
The 7 Flushing line will never be extended to new Jersey I tell you that right now dogs 🐕. They could definitely have the metro North railroad or the Long Island railroad or the new Acela Amtrak or the path trains. The 7 Flushing line is definitely not a railroad.
So if they can extend 1 of the lines east of the Hudson to run on the Tappan Zee Bridge does that mean it can connect with 1 of the lines west of the Hudson or no?
Is there a good reason why you call it the Tappan Zee bridge or do you just like confusing commuters?
Because that is the bridge's name.
The main line runs over the Harlem river and not the Hudson River. Great video though. 🇺🇸
Is there a commuter railroad from Boston to Buffalo NY?
i realized that the MNR has a fire department. I would understand why a transit agency would police department but why a fire department?
They have to figure out to have NJ transit also ho to grand Madison with lirr
at 4:35 you misidentify the Harlem River. 😞
My brain genuinely got fried. Sorry about that.
The New Haven (Park Ave Main) Line Does NOT Cross The Hudson River...It Crosses The Harlem River 👍🏽
Yonkers!
(DISCLAIMER, I’m a 179th street (E) train Fanboy)
I’m surprised it’s not the (E) because it’s a perfect embodiment of NYC, minus the fact it’s not elevated.
E is a subway line
MetroNorth is a railroad
@@RonGerstein it said train in the title, I ran with it
Metro North Time!!!
Commuter Rail, woo hoo!
Are you from Cali?!?! We don't call it THE I-95 just 95.
I think the best bet for MNRR Hudson Line Penn Station Access as far as equipment use is battery operated trains, like CT Rail is doing for the Hartford Line!!!
Ugh. Batteries are so heavy for the power they provide.
Time Square is beautiful. People that dont like the giant led billboards in cities should just accept reality and move to the country home in the woods that was meant for them.
LIRR is the most popular
787 miles? You are comparing track miles to 700 route miles for the LIRR. It's not a fair comparison.
It is 700 miles of track for LIRR. Unless you want to go with route miles, then Metro North is still longer, 385 miles versus 319 miles.