The pilot of this aircraft was a good friend of mine. I have flown this aircraft and another PC-12 with him on a number of occasions. He was a competent instrument pilot and well experienced in the PC12. It is a mystery as to what could have happened and may well never be solved. Let’s hope as aviators we can learn something positive from this tragedy. RIP friend.
Sorry for your loss. This is frustrating and puzzling for all of us, how such a capable pilot and bird could meet with such disaster. Time will heal and teach us.
As indicated from the ADSB trace the earlier flight path appears to be well under control. With the pilot IFR rated I would suspect pilot incapacitation to be the real cause of this tragic accident. The latter flight path indicates some feasible effort by someone to take control but heaven forbid if that person had nil IMC experience. RIP to all souls aboard and sympathies to their families.
I’m a 121 capt and was hiking on the beach in Beaufort at the fort Macon state park at the time of the accident. Low clouds and 3-6 SM visibility based on known landmarks. Intermittent light drizzle through out the day. I did see a number of single engine cessnas through out the day land at MRH. Overall the WX remained consistent throughout the day.
I suspect if this was truly a VFR flight that this pilot was skimming MVFR and ended up in IMC. You'll find me hard pressed to believe this was anything mechanical.
@@Larsonaut I agree... I'd call it 'pilot incapacitation' given all the automation that could have be used to fly straight & level, if it was a single pilot op.
Was a Husband and wife who took 4 kids from the same high school to a youth Duck hunt outing. They had finished the morning hunt and eaten lunch and we’re heading home. There was also a pilot onboard. I live about 4 hours from the outer banks and don’t think we had any crazy weather yesterday. Really sad and there are 8 families hurting really bad today. From what I understand they found the debris field last night. Then lost it due to currents then found it again this morning. Was only about 4 miles out so water is not to deep out there.
That’s brutal. As an airline pilot, I would have a hard time letting my kids on a plane like that with a pilot or pilots I don’t know. Another example is the Citation in Cleveland a few years ago.
Hey Juan, I fly all the series of the PC-12/45/47/47E and NGX. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions about the Pilatus. Also worked at a factory service center for the PC-12 for many years. Love your channel!
@@ronconrad3507 No, not day trippers. If they had all their gear for a two week Elk hunt in the Big Horn mountains, then maybe. But these folks were out for the day apparently duck hunting. Not even close to overloading that plane
Somebody may have already mentioned this but there is a simpler way to display airspace and restricted areas over the sectional charts in Foreflight. On the map there is a setup button adjacent to the FPL button (flight plan). In this flyout menu under 'Aeronautical' open the Airspace selection and enable all of the categories. This will then display generated border overlays with color-coded legends that contain the designation and the altitude range of the area. I have found that this can be left active at all times without creating a distraction. Additionally, I like to enable TFR's in the map layer menu. These will display overlays delineating the area and with a tap will flyout a textual version of the TFR description with the active times. I have heard that there are plans to display in real time the status of the restricted areas, but that is going to require the military's aid in generating and disseminating the hot/cold status to Foreflight.
@blancolirio there are easier ways to get this info. In addition to the above, you can also long-press on the map region which will show “add to route” options. Those options contain Details links which give you the information specific to each airspace/waypoint/etc.
My condolences to all the families. A real tragedy. It would seem to me with all the technology that there isn't an easier way to track this info. As you were saying during your report of the page needed was buried in (what I would call a menu of optional pages. Though I see other comments of there being simpler ways. Would that included in a pilots ongoing training to keep your license up? (just a curious civilian)
It's so sad that someone with access to such a technologically advanced aircraft would fail to take 15 minutes to file an IFR flight plan in conditions like this. These "short hops" in a higher performance aircraft like the PC-12 are demanding, so why not take advantage of a controller routing you around the restricted airspace and guiding you to the RNAV GPS approach at Beaufort? Keep educating everyone Juan! The recent IFR flight I watched with you and another guy in your twin Cessna was gold, and I know it has an impact.
Especially for commercial ops. You're restricted to 50 nm without an IR if doing commercial ops (and barred from night ops). This really really seems like a pilot skimming MVFR and inadvertently encountering IMC...
Well it depends on thew planning involved. This was not a business flight, they were returning from a duck hunting trip in Engelhard. The manifest shows 4 teenagers on flight there were eight passengers on the plane, four of whom were teenagers. The people's ages ranged from 15 at the youngest, to 67
@@brandoncenteno1834 While the plane is owned by a business this was not a commercial operation. The group were on a duck hunting trip, most likely family and or friends as there was 4 teenagers on the flight
You said it right, Juan. For those not familiar, there are two towns, Beaufort NC and Beaufort SC, spelled the same but pronounced differently. BOW-fert NC (like "beau") BYEW-fert SC (like "beautiful")
Thanks again Juan for THE most concise and informative reporting EVER.. I come here for the truth, and the facts. I feel this is a tragedy for the entire GA community!!
I live seventy-five miles from the crash site as the crow files from the south-west. Weather conditions on the ground at my house yesterday afternoon included overcast clouds with Ceiling estimated at 2-4000 feet and gusting winds on the ground and scattered rain showers. It is a very active restricited military air space area. May their souls rest in peace. Condolences to the families. Thank you Juan.
I'm a pilot out of Cherry Point, and given that weather I can't imagine the 5306 was active, particularly on a Sunday, but given his abrupt turn, there could have been some surface firing going on. It's sad to see this. Thanks for analysis.
I live in Swansboro, NC, literally less than an hour from the location of this event. This has definitely hit a tight-knit community pretty hard. My condolences and prayers to all involved and hats off for all the first responders, both military, civilian, and volunteers.
Probably not a high likelihood but on the KA PT6 operation, OH calls for the use of the engine ice separators at +5C and below. Since there can be as much as a 15kt loss in performance, many ignored the OH to their peril. Bent compressor blades during decent from ingestion of ice in moisture that seemingly had little risk for engine ice formation have resulted in unusual torque values. Add in single pilot IFR and maybe hand flying, that can present a very confusing situation for the pilot. Just seems that for a pilot flying this type of equipment, something got thrown into the mix besides weather.
The speed increase for the climb that never ends makes me wonder if perhaps this was caused by a failure of load restraints, allowing cargo to shift abruptly aft, causing a CG so far back that the elevators couldn't correct? Sad ☹️
Sound very much like a runaway trim situation I responded to someone else who suggested this and put down my story of when the trim runaway full nose up in a PC12
I heard a Pilatus land at Cameron Park Airpark while I was walking nearby. I had never heard or seen a Pilatus before. The sound was incredible as he applied reverse thrust to slow after landing. I was completely impressed; when I got home I looked up what it was. Very sad eight lives were lost in this incident.
4 Teens who grew up together were in this aircraft. The Pilot and his son lost their life as well. As did a gentleman and his lady companion. I'm friends with the deceased pilot's daughter she lost her Dad & brother. Please be kind..
As a 121 pilot, I've flown into that area many times ( CHS, HXD and SAV ), and the weather can be real dog squeeze on occasion, but from the METAR and TAF, it didn't sound too awful for an experienced pilot flying a PC-12 under IFR...
I fly out of Chesapeake airport (KCPK) which is 68 nautical miles north of Hyde County airport where they departed and was supposed to fly a Skyhawk at 3:00pm on Sunday. I chose not to because there was snow, sleet, and freezing rain reported in the area. Ceiling was 3400 feet, and winds were from the north at 10 with gusts to 17. An instructor who flies out of Epix Aviation, where I fly, reported light icing on his previous flight at 1:00pm. He never got above 3000 feet agl, so I chose to stay on the ground. By 5:00pm it was sleeting and raining here. Not sure what happened there but the weather was marginal at best Sunday.
Flown many hours between Raleigh and Ocracoke…usually VFR and skirting R-5306A to the north and northeast, then making SE into Ocracoke at about Great Island. Very sad story indeed. Juan, I’d like your view on the potential for an onset of SLD (supercooled large droplets). His 180 degree turn certainly coincides with the northern edge of R-5306A… but… Could he have encountered moderate/severe SLD and the 180 was due to this (and just happened to geographically coincide with the edge of 5306?) I have not looked back at radar summaries so there may not have even been precip it that region. So I’m just kind of thinking aloud here. But… Also wondering if there were any Pireps for icing… and what the freezing level actually was over the Pamlico during that timeframe (normal lapse rates not withstanding). Regardless, this is a sad tragedy and hits close to home. Condolences to family and friends. Just awful.
Let us not forget the controllers involved. I cannot imagine going home at the end of a shift with the deceased's voice still in your head while also thinking of the passengers and their last moments.
I flew PC 12s up and down the East Coast primarily especially in that area. I have never understood why people would rather scud run VFR than file an IFR flight plan and have a decent approach in marginal weather.
Any chance the pilot might have tried to go IFR but got a routing way around the restricted airspace or something, then decided to make it a straight shot VFR?
@@fhturner3 It’s hard to say until all the information is in. I’ve just noticed a reluctance of people to file a flight plan on a short route. I always felt safer doing that. It doesn’t take that much more time. I think another factor is flying in that area you have to be ready to go IFR at any moment. Before flying the Pilatus PC 12 I flew pipeline patrol in that area. The fog would materialize in front of you and you would be in it before you realized that you had a problem. Flying low level pipeline around the coastal areas from Houston to Newark I had to be ready to go IFR at a moments notice. Weather could degenerate so rapidly that you had to be able to make that transition quickly or you would be in a lot of trouble. That happened to be five or six times that I can remember.
@@jamesmcguire5312 Are you flying Pipelines that are on land and underwater? What is moving through these pipes? Are you looking for leaks, like oil flowing out on land or underwater?
@@sanfranciscobay I flew both kinds of pipelines. Production pipelines are in the fields where the crude oil comes out of the ground and sent to central locations for refining. The ones I was speaking of primarily product or oil or gasoline going from Houston to Newark New Jersey. Fuel products were shipped that full distance and deposited in various tank farms along the route. We primarily look for Construction that would damage the pipeline. The big pipelines had so much pressure that if they broke they would put a geyser of fuel in the air that would be easily visible. We were looking for Backhoes and tractors and anything that might damage the pipeline by digging. We would then report it by radio. With a GPS coordinate. It was very effective. We took the job very seriously. From a pilots point of view you’re at a very low level. Less than 500 feet. You’re having to watch the pipeline plus avoid everything from other traffic in the air to birds. As I mentioned in coastal areas you could transition very quickly from visual flight type day to dense fog.
I've scud run at 130 kts. Stuff comes up on you fast with one mile vis. I can't imagine scudding at 250 kts. The climb and crash gives me the feeling he encountered solid ifr down low and was trying to climb out on top to file an ifr. I've done that before but did not wait to file I immediately called appr control and declared my position squawking 1200 but unable to maintain vfr. I let the controller handle my problem. Best to get on radar asap let them sort you out. Cherry point was sitting there looking at him anyway all he needs do is call
In Foreflight, you can touch and hold any spot on the map to bring up info about nearby airspaces, navaids etc. The restricted area area altitudes and ARTCC will show right there, or you can click on the "details" entry for all of the info.
Juan: Thank you for accurately describing the accident information with reserved speculation. There are MANY reasons this may have happened and to speculate would be a disservice to us all. LOC flight is the very broad category but these types of accidents are usually caused by a combination of several actions or inactions.....I commend you for laying out the facts. I doubt the aircraft had cockpit recorders but hopefully the professionals with knowledge of the aircraft will be able to isolate a cause more granular than LOC. Keep up the good work, your channel is a service to aviation and the public at large.
This hits very close to home, I live near MCAS Cherry Point and know a lot of pilots who are based there. Thoughts are with everyone involved in this tragedy. That restricted area near the incident is busy since the Harriers usually train in that area. As a GA pilot, I’ve never flown to that coast yet, but as you said, if you’re not careful, it can be dangerous between military and GA traffic as well as navigating between the intricate airspace. So sad 😞
Blancolirio , You have my respect sir. I've tried to give a response, with some questions about these unfortunate aero circumstances and have found first hand how challenging it is to remain respectful and factual simultaneously. The line between a hero and a heel is fine indeed. Keep fighting the good fight .
Another great video, Juan. Just one thing, though: at 5:05 from the top weather report at 1958Z, moving downward, you mention that the other METARs show that the weather is deteriorating. I believe that actually, the reverse is true (the latest reports are on top; the earliest is on the bottom) -- it appears that the weather was, in fact, improving slightly, which may have influenced his decision-making process. At 1839Z, METAR is 03011G21KT 10SM -RA OVC009. The reports at 1858Z & 1949Z show some improvement, but the 1958Z report shows the most improvement: 01009KT 10SM ( no restriction to vis ) OVC012 ; Remarks: RAE05 (Rain ended at 05 [which would be at 1905Z] ). Technically, I don't believe that he would've needed a clearance to fly VFR through W-122, although it wouldn't be too smart to not get one; also, he should want one for the Core MOA. I believe that you are correct in that, if he were IFR capable, an IFR flight plan should've probably been filed. There are several RNAV (GPS) approaches to KMRH - Beaufort, including one to RWY 3, which has a MDA 480 ft MSL and 1 mi vis minimum (in reality, a 500-1 approach), if his a/c had an IFR-certified GPS on board and if he was capable of making a GPS approach.
Juan, this is Dave Engelhard, the guy who emailed you. Your analysis is excellent. Can you explain why the ADSB data ended at the top of the sudden climb? Why do you think the data didn't end with the sudden descent info instead?
One possibility is that if the airplane gets into a truly unusual attitude, the signal is blocked by the fuselage. There are other possibilities, but this is the one that seems to me to be most likely at this early point.
I was thinking the same thing . strange to lose radar contact at 4300 feet . Almost like what you see when a plane brakes up. But that wouldnt be the case when he was flying at vy . Smells like stall/spin . But also looks like incomplète data.
The data did show a rapid descent....if you look at the track log it shows the last ping with an elevation of 2550 feet with a descent rate of over 7,000. Sad.
I have just gone through all the PC12 records in the ASN wikibase (all of them, including the deer strike and the two in there for hangars collapsing). 1 - there are some really oddball electrical issues that crop up occasionally, from autopilot that can tell you it's engaged when it isn't, to trim runaway, to partial and full panel outages 2 - this is apparently a type that you absolutely, positively do *not* let get away from you, whether it's spatial disorientation or any other reason. It's slippery and powerful, one fatal incident had recorders and through spatial disorientation the aircraft managed to get 175 knots *beyond* maximum maneuver speed. 3 - You better frickin' train for problems because some of the incidents I'm reading for trim runaway have disable switches doing things that aren't immediately logical unless you're going through the checklist with a fine toothed comb. Apparently there are relays driving the manual and auto trim systems and the manual can malfunction and constant signal the auto trim (i.e. runaway) but hitting that axis trim runaway switch somehow disables ALL the trim, but either still ends up driving that auto trim actuator or doesn't allow it to zero itself under aerodynamic load (possibly screwjack, or just the way it's designed electrically). 4 - there is at least one non-fatal incident where the instruments actually couldn't be trusted. Blocked pitot drain>wet weather>miscompare Hard lean towards #2, task overload leading to spatial and the aircraft just getting away from the pilot.
I live in the Beaufort, NC area in Carteret County. I know several of these families. Four teenage boys were killed. The entire community is heart broken!
As for finding the info about the restricted area in Foreflight; I believe you can just touch and hold on the area of interest. A column will come up with the name of the restricted area with a tab that says about. If you click that tab the info is right there.
Sad tragedy. Good report as always, Juan. I had the opportunity to fly with a CFII that lived on Ocracoke, in his Cessna 150, from Ocracoke up to the Kitty Hawk monument in Kill Devil Hills, where Phil let me do all the flying including the crosswind takeoff and landing on Ocracoke. Circling the Kitty Hawk monument , twice, was particularly fantastic. Rather than flying back down the coast, Phil said fly over Pamlico Sound, in the restricted airspace, to go back to Ocracoke. The Navy controllers tried contacting Phil while we were doing this , and he responded back he couldn't hear due to radio static, turned the radio off, and we continued back to Ocracoke, uneventfully. Phil said all the military controllers knew who he was ! Lol The weather condtions that day were unlimited visibility, with winds of 15-20 out of the West. Rest in peace , Phil , he was a great man. Great pilot and even better instructor !!!
Quick addition regarding Foreflight airspace info…if you place and hold your finger within the airspace for a second or two, a menu will pop up and you can get all the info there.
Pilatus PC-12 aircraft are used as air-ambulances throughout Outback Australia by the Royal Flying Doctor Service. A vital service - funded by government and community donations (for aircraft and equipment). My condolences to the victims’ families. KymY in Darwin.
I don’t understand why so many pilots still use hope as a tool of dodging IMC. Just file a flight plan…it literally takes a few minutes to do. The PC-12 is one of the best and safest aircraft on the planet and unless something major happened like the entire panel crashed (which I know has happened on an older PC-12). This seems like VFR into IMC, then loss of orientation and then death. This will be an interesting case to learn from. Sincere condolences and heart felt prayers to the families of the deceased.
The 4 Honeywell screens communicate with each other and very unlikely all of them would ever shut down, since there is independent battery backup. And agree, such a weather condition, why not File IFR.
This is accident is tragic. I worked for a company up here in Alaska that flys one of PC-12s all over Alaska to different villages. It is an older plane but has been upgraded consistently. This company won’t cheap out on things like this. They also have a Cessna 560 with a cargo door and gravel kit. I know the corporate CEO used to fly around in a Dassault Falcon with three engines.
@@niklaspilot They need the cargo door to be able to put communications racks in there. It took a long time to get the cargo door installed. They have to put the aircraft in a jig to hold it straight during the whole installation. The nice thing about the PC-12 is it comes with a cargo door. They use these aircraft to transport technicians all over the state. Many places it takes all day to get there using commercial aircraft but having their own aircraft you can get to multiple sites in a day. I remember the days when I could carry my techie tool bag on a commercial plane, not anymore.
if you simply hold your finger on the edge of the SUA airspace right on the map on foreflight the information pops up right there on the chart. dimensions, freqs etc.
I've had a runaway pitch trim up in a 47. It was a handful by the time I pushed the disconnect and held it and reduced power to keep stick forces light enough maintain level. I had a right seat crewmember running the QRH and managed to reset the pitch trim and landed with no further problems.
One of the nice things about the new NGX model. It won't allow takeoff unless all trim settings must be correct. Unsure if this bird in question, the NG, has this feature.
@@davidd6635 We were on climbing for about 10 minutes on autopilot. The legacies (45s and 47s) I flew did not have this feature. I know of another crew that had runaway pitch trim during climb also.
Condolences to families first and foremost. I respect the way you analyze situations on your channel with the information avialable at the time. Your team does very good research before broadcasting. Many channels do not and offer only "hanger talk" Probable Cause speculations. Thanks for keeping the aviation community informed on these incidents with the carefully vetted and informative perspectives you provide.
with the weather, might have been a iced over static port and not having accurate altitude indication in the plane? or maybe they tried to climb over a cloud layer? don't know, this one we might not find out anything.
For such a capable aircraft, a tragedy like this seems very unlikely. It'll be interesting to find out what really happened and what caused a total loss of control. So very sad. Condolences to all the families affected by this tragedy. RIP.
Capable aircraft doesn't mean capable crew. Nobody is above a mistake, but this appears to be a compounded series of mistakes, leading to the crew getting behind the aircraft.
@Bartman my doctor friend has a Pilatus PC 12 and the safest most reliable aircraft in the air it definitely will be interesting to see what really happened. Condolences to all the families involved
It is a very capable aircraft, and mechanically one of the most reliable out there. One of the very notable attributes is its incredibly low stall speed for its size, only 67 Kts at sea level, and overall the handling is very predictable and docile.
@@REALChannel99 I'm not completely up on Pilatus planes, I really only know about the Honeywell suite that was in this plane. That being said, Cirrus is the company that predominantly offers fuselage mounted ballistic parachutes. I'm sure others may as well.
My condolences to the friends and family of those eight lives lost. My father would often comment on incidents like this that spatial disorientation is a killer, you always, always must trust your instruments not your inner ear. Dad said many times that when training RCAF pilots IFR under the hood he would have to yell, TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS to the students. And I know, when he bellowed in that Command voice of his, you listened! A shame this accident happened. Not to jump to conclusions but this does strongly look as pilot loss of control.
For those not aviation savvy, "trusting your instruments" to maintain control of the aircraft in bad weather (aka IMC) requires a whole lot of training and a lot of recent experience operating the aircraft solely by reference to those instruments.
@@Freq412 , indeed, I'd be keenly interested in the experience level of the pilot. Perhaps it's "obvious", but seems a majority of aircraft accidents in the last 3-5 years have occurred with relatively low-time (less than 5,000 hrs total, less than 500 in type) pilots. Or has it always been that way?
@@Freq412 good point, I would also add for those not aviation savvy that spatial disorientation can happen to anyone. Spatial disorientation occurs when the part of the inner ear that gives you your balance, gets messed up. Often it occurs when you are in motion but lack sensory input, ie) flying into clouds where you have no visual references. The inner ear may all of sudden make you think you are descending downward when you were flying level and you react by pulling up potentially stalling the aircraft and going into a spin. . As you can imagine this puts a pilot and any passengers at grave risk. I’ve experienced spatial disorientation at home. My inner ear convinced my brain that everything was tilted 45 degrees to the right. I kept leaning to the right to square everything up of course I just fell over. A trip to the hospital, some drugs, very little activity for a couple of days and it went away. The cause of my spatial disorientation was likely a virus.
Juan, not disagreeing with anything you stated but the ForeFlight piece is wrong. You can just click and hold on the restricted and it’ll bring up a dialog box with frequency, controlling agency, limits, hours of operation. There’s no need to fiddle with map action. My condolences to the families of the departed. RIP
Several years ago a family of four was lost when the autopilot of the PC-12 failed in IMC and the pilot (husband/father) became disoriented. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a similar situation. Condolences to all
@@67polara Yes, why the bird has a stick shaker, And Pusher if pilot doesn't get the hint of shaker indicating very near stall speed of wing....But, pilot can overpower that condition, and unfortunately appears what ultimately happened. Many questions. Pilot might have had a medical emergency that impaired his abilities.
Thanks for this post Juan! I received a text from a close friend in Beaufort concerned for those on board to find out later they didn't live. VERY familiar with Michael J Smith and traffic in the restricted area. At times military flights are so numerous in that area you would think you were at ATL or CLT. It would be interesting to know the military activity when N79NX went down.
Possible went around weather/rain cloud, accidentally tracked off into restricted airspace, got panicked and confused and was not monitoring altitude, or could not coordinate real world visual with instrumentation readings, and ended up crashing into the water. News reports stated that Rawls ignored previous initial radio contacts from the military base about being in restricted airspace and then at the last contact point explained that he “was trying to get out” (get out of what - weather? military airspace? the seat?) and "unable to receive any radio transmissions" (not wearing headset or even sitting in the pilot's seat?). The NTSB said the last radio transmission from the plane was at 1:58 p.m. with the aircraft at 1,700 feet. Three minutes later, the civilian airport controller radioed the airplane out of concern because its altitude was at 4,700 feet and climbing rapidly. The NTSB said the pilot never responded to the radio calls. A minute later, radar contact with the plane was lost. Was one of the kids at the controls and accidentally disabled the autopilot (if applicable) as what happened with Aeroflot Flight 593? Did the pilot have a heart attack or stroke and nobody could recover the plane? Could it be a freak lighting strike? News mentions copilot was just a student with only a certificate and little to none solo flight time. If the captain was incapacitated the copilot would have had no hope at all to fly the plane unassisted - especially a Pilatus.
Hi Juan, always sad to hear when there is loss of lives. With the erratic flight pattern and altitude changes of the aircraft there at the end, I’ll be curious to see if the pilot had some sort of medical issue? My prayers are with the families that lost loved ones.
Thanks Juan, always sad to hear this stuff. Reference foreflight, you can also long-press on the MOA/Restricted airspace and that will pull up a bunch of clickable options, ie, nearest fix/ airport, airspace etc. If you then click the corresponding restricted area it will have all the times and altitudes for you.
on FF you can also just touch and hold the Airspace and you can go to details and will give you all the information who to contact and the lateral limits of the airspace.
7:12 One small note. If a restricted area were Cold as confirmed by a call to the controlling agency, no further clearance would have been required (FAA Legal 2010 - Davis)
There is some interesting airspace around there. I'm not a 91, but have flown with friends that are in and around the Pamlico Sound area. Between these very two airports. I sometimes go down there to visit and bring the paraglider. It's not often I get to fly due to wind, but everyone is acutely aware of the restrictions. That the pilot of this flight, who'd made it before, flew into the restricted airspace and had to bug out is bizarre. It was a total noob error on the surface. Hopefully there is some approach communication with CPMCAS that sheds some light on this flight. Maybe it went red after initial clearance? Perhaps the flight was cleared and the wx conditions deteriorated rapidly? This is some airspace I enjoy thoroughly and hope there are some conclusive results from the investigation.
Something other-worldly must have occurred or an incapacitation because to stall and spin a PC12 on a milk run is just unthinkable, I knew this aircraft well, 8 lives lost is beyond heartbreaking. RIP
No matter the cause, 8 souls are no longer with their families. Sending prayers and condolences to their families. I do know that GA is going through a troubling period right now. I would encourage all student pilots, and those with not a lot of hours to please get whatever refresher training you need, and learn your airplanes from the inside out. I am no pilot, but I learned to fly the Cessna 172 when I was 17 in 1962. But, I have driven long enough to know that some things will give you a subtle alert before it becomes critical.
Of course it's too early to tell but my money is on VFR into IMC. A stall/spin isn't likely as they don't appear to have gotten anywhere near slow enough (not knowing what their load factor was) and it has a pretty capable shaker/pusher. The only other thing I can think of is a mismanaged trim runaway. I flew for a company that had several PC12s and we had trim issues more frequently than they should have.
RIP for All and the rest of us are here to Learn. The PC12 since 2008 has been the NG model, with the Honeywell all glass panel. Very capable bird, but if not completely comfortable with panel, finding and resetting the instruments was a distraction. It was likely programed for a straight flight thru the Restricted, as Juan's illustration finding info on ForeFlight as an example. Maybe suddenly discovered the Restricted was hot and got disoriented with where, and what the flight director was commanding. Very interested to discover what happened. The bird has stick shaker and pusher both sides.
The CVR shows the pilot was struggling with the nav system and constantly swearing almost the whole flight, until he disconnected the autopilot and got disoriented in apparent IMC.
I used to live in that area. That airspace is guarded. Any mistake in flying in it will likely cost you your plane and license. It's happened before. Good luck Juan! My condolences to the families and friends involved.
Your disbelief doesn't prove me wrong.The Marine Major that reported it to the authorities was a friend of mine. The FBI took the pilot's license and his plane. Comment where you know what you're talking about.
@@d.t.4523 You made the statement, so you should give us the proof that a government agency confiscated both the pilot's aircraft and certificate after violating R-5306A
My theory on this is the autopilot was inadvertently turned off. By the time that was recognized, the plane is pointing up and over the ocean. That plane had full synthetic vision, which over the water is Blue over Blue. I think it could be very difficult to regain situational awareness in that scenario, and there just wasn't enough time.
Perhaps he let one of the teenagers put hands on the contols and inadvertently turned the autopilot off. But there would have been a audio and visual warning of this.
All my thought go to the families of these 8 people. I am in no position to speculate what has gone wrong. Thanks Juan for being the watcher in the sky.
JUAN, Hello, mot heard og this one, so thanks, but so sad, ,,,my condolences to all aboard & their families, it’s NOT deep there so,could be recovered…RIP, ,, 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Don't jump to conclusions. This is a newish 2017 expensive aircraft. Insurance would require a very qualified pilot. That extreme climb toward the end of the flight is worrisome, mechanically.
Spatial disorientation? Even when it's early to speculate, having mentioned that the flight started at around 4 pm, ventured out in the open waters where it's impossible to differentiate the water line from the sky under the hazy conditions you described. This is more likely to happen at dusk and in the dead of winter. The final flight pattern you showed us bore an eerie resemblance to John Jr Kennedy's volatile pattern just before crashing near Martha's Vineyard, under similar conditions. Last but not least, there were no reports of engine failure.
I am not a pilot but have grown up around aircraft...also, I live in NC. Our local stories explain that this group had been on a hunting trip and that the aircraft belonged to the hunting guide. Could it be possible that there was a sudden issue with a firearm left loaded or with a box of ammo in the hold? How are flight controls routed in a Pilatus? Electrical wires to the tail with servos? All hydraulic? I'm just thinking about what could be severed to cause this erratic flight. It's a pressurized plane, but they were at low altitude...I'm at a loss. Very sad for friends, family and community.
looking at the Altitude he was at and subsequent excursion it seems that he was at least IMC for some of the final minutes which for a Pilot who is not current or does not possess an IFR rating can prove deadly. Very unfortunate accident, the accident report should shed some more light on this… My deepest condolences to any family that is left behind.
Looks like the pilot didn't check the status of the restricted area before departure? If he knew, wouldn't he have headed straight for the outer banks? Maybe if he had known beforehand he wouldn't have made the trip? (Here I am assuming that the detour forced the pilot into IMC) Which raises the question, why not return when he learned he couldn't use the restricted airspace? Getthereitis? I'm not a pilot, (Instances like this are why. Oh, and relative poverty.) so I may be off base here.
In foreflight to see info on airspace such as this restricted area, you can press and hold your finger on the restricted area and a menu will pop up from the right side. There you can click details on the airspace you want info on. just a handy tip for anyone who didnt know
![Shenseea - Dating Szn (Options) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eUePmZFIXUg/mqdefault.jpg)
The pilot of this aircraft was a good friend of mine. I have flown this aircraft and another PC-12 with him on a number of occasions. He was a competent instrument pilot and well experienced in the PC12. It is a mystery as to what could have happened and may well never be solved. Let’s hope as aviators we can learn something positive from this tragedy. RIP friend.
Sorry for your loss. This is frustrating and puzzling for all of us, how such a capable pilot and bird could meet with such disaster. Time will heal and teach us.
Was he recently "Boosted"?
Pc12 has recorders
@@JoeLinux2000 Juan never goes there.
As indicated from the ADSB trace the earlier flight path appears to be well under control. With the pilot IFR rated I would suspect pilot incapacitation to be the real cause of this tragic accident. The latter flight path indicates some feasible effort by someone to take control but heaven forbid if that person had nil IMC experience. RIP to all souls aboard and sympathies to their families.
I’m a 121 capt and was hiking on the beach in Beaufort at the fort Macon state park at the time of the accident. Low clouds and 3-6 SM visibility based on known landmarks. Intermittent light drizzle through out the day. I did see a number of single engine cessnas through out the day land at MRH. Overall the WX remained consistent throughout the day.
I suspect if this was truly a VFR flight that this pilot was skimming MVFR and ended up in IMC. You'll find me hard pressed to believe this was anything mechanical.
Maybe heart attack, embolism or stroke?
@@Larsonaut doubtful, honestly. Probability is way lower than inadvertent VFR into IMC.
@@brandoncenteno1834 but flying in this aircraft with artificial horizon is not so difficult. A flight simulator player can do it after a few minutes
@@Larsonaut I agree... I'd call it 'pilot incapacitation' given all the automation that could have be used to fly straight & level, if it was a single pilot op.
Was a Husband and wife who took 4 kids from the same high school to a youth Duck hunt outing. They had finished the morning hunt and eaten lunch and we’re heading home. There was also a pilot onboard. I live about 4 hours from the outer banks and don’t think we had any crazy weather yesterday. Really sad and there are 8 families hurting really bad today. From what I understand they found the debris field last night. Then lost it due to currents then found it again this morning. Was only about 4 miles out so water is not to deep out there.
Wow Soo sad
Thanks Chad, incredibly sad.
You may not have known about any "crazy weather" in the area if you live 4 hours away. What ever your definition of crazy weather is.
Must have been a hell of a ride into the water. It’s very likely they were all alive all the way until it hit the water….
That’s brutal. As an airline pilot, I would have a hard time letting my kids on a plane like that with a pilot or pilots I don’t know. Another example is the Citation in Cleveland a few years ago.
Hey Juan, I fly all the series of the PC-12/45/47/47E and NGX. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions about the Pilatus. Also worked at a factory service center for the PC-12 for many years. Love your channel!
Do they have auto level for loss of orientation?
@@MrLunithy there is an alt hold function on the autopilot...
Thanks Max!!
@@ronconrad3507 It was teenagers with Youth Waterfowl group. Couple of adults!
@@ronconrad3507 No, not day trippers. If they had all their gear for a two week Elk hunt in the Big Horn mountains, then maybe. But these folks were out for the day apparently duck hunting. Not even close to overloading that plane
Somebody may have already mentioned this but there is a simpler way to display airspace and restricted areas over the sectional charts in Foreflight. On the map there is a setup button adjacent to the FPL button (flight plan). In this flyout menu under 'Aeronautical' open the Airspace selection and enable all of the categories. This will then display generated border overlays with color-coded legends that contain the designation and the altitude range of the area. I have found that this can be left active at all times without creating a distraction. Additionally, I like to enable TFR's in the map layer menu. These will display overlays delineating the area and with a tap will flyout a textual version of the TFR description with the active times. I have heard that there are plans to display in real time the status of the restricted areas, but that is going to require the military's aid in generating and disseminating the hot/cold status to Foreflight.
That would be nice especially for those flying over here in NV .
@blancolirio there are easier ways to get this info. In addition to the above, you can also long-press on the map region which will show “add to route” options. Those options contain Details links which give you the information specific to each airspace/waypoint/etc.
@@timspriggs5146 Came here to say exactly this.
I wish he’d learn this
My condolences to all the families. A real tragedy. It would seem to me with all the technology that there isn't an easier way to track this info. As you were saying during your report of the page needed was buried in (what I would call a menu of optional pages. Though I see other comments of there being simpler ways. Would that included in a pilots ongoing training to keep your license up? (just a curious civilian)
It's so sad that someone with access to such a technologically advanced aircraft would fail to take 15 minutes to file an IFR flight plan in conditions like this. These "short hops" in a higher performance aircraft like the PC-12 are demanding, so why not take advantage of a controller routing you around the restricted airspace and guiding you to the RNAV GPS approach at Beaufort? Keep educating everyone Juan! The recent IFR flight I watched with you and another guy in your twin Cessna was gold, and I know it has an impact.
Especially for commercial ops. You're restricted to 50 nm without an IR if doing commercial ops (and barred from night ops). This really really seems like a pilot skimming MVFR and inadvertently encountering IMC...
Well it depends on thew planning involved. This was not a business flight, they were returning from a duck hunting trip in Engelhard. The manifest shows 4 teenagers on flight there were eight passengers on the plane, four of whom were teenagers. The people's ages ranged from 15 at the youngest, to 67
@@brandoncenteno1834 While the plane is owned by a business this was not a commercial operation. The group were on a duck hunting trip, most likely family and or friends as there was 4 teenagers on the flight
You said it right, Juan. For those not familiar, there are two towns, Beaufort NC and Beaufort SC, spelled the same but pronounced differently.
BOW-fert NC (like "beau")
BYEW-fert SC (like "beautiful")
French names? Beau Fort?
Thanks again Juan for THE most concise and informative reporting EVER.. I come here for the truth, and the facts. I feel this is a tragedy for the entire GA community!!
I live seventy-five miles from the crash site as the crow files from the south-west. Weather conditions on the ground at my house yesterday afternoon included overcast clouds with Ceiling estimated at 2-4000 feet and gusting winds on the ground and scattered rain showers. It is a very active restricited military air space area. May their souls rest in peace. Condolences to the families. Thank you Juan.
I'm a pilot out of Cherry Point, and given that weather I can't imagine the 5306 was active, particularly on a Sunday, but given his abrupt turn, there could have been some surface firing going on. It's sad to see this. Thanks for analysis.
Thank you Juan this hurts when a fatality happens and May our prayers goes out to all 8 families for comfort
I live in Swansboro, NC, literally less than an hour from the location of this event. This has definitely hit a tight-knit community pretty hard. My condolences and prayers to all involved and hats off for all the first responders, both military, civilian, and volunteers.
Probably not a high likelihood but on the KA PT6 operation, OH calls for the use of the engine ice separators at +5C and below. Since there can be as much as a 15kt loss in performance, many ignored the OH to their peril. Bent compressor blades during decent from ingestion of ice in moisture that seemingly had little risk for engine ice formation have resulted in unusual torque values. Add in single pilot IFR and maybe hand flying, that can present a very confusing situation for the pilot. Just seems that for a pilot flying this type of equipment, something got thrown into the mix besides weather.
The speed increase for the climb that never ends makes me wonder if perhaps this was caused by a failure of load restraints, allowing cargo to shift abruptly aft, causing a CG so far back that the elevators couldn't correct? Sad ☹️
Sound very much like a runaway trim situation
I responded to someone else who suggested this and put down my story of when the trim runaway full nose up in a PC12
I heard a Pilatus land at Cameron Park Airpark while I was walking nearby. I had never heard or seen a Pilatus before. The sound was incredible as he applied reverse thrust to slow after landing. I was completely impressed; when I got home I looked up what it was.
Very sad eight lives were lost in this incident.
@@ronconrad3507 I remember the first time I heard a MU2. And I thought being within 100' in front of an F-27 at ground idle was loud ...
Wait till you hear a king air 350 in reverse thrust!
4 Teens who grew up together were in this aircraft. The Pilot and his son lost their life as well. As did a gentleman and his lady companion. I'm friends with the deceased pilot's daughter she lost her Dad & brother. Please be kind..
Best wishes to you all over there! :(
As a 121 pilot, I've flown into that area many times ( CHS, HXD and SAV ), and the weather can be real dog squeeze on occasion, but from the METAR and TAF, it didn't sound too awful for an experienced pilot flying a PC-12 under IFR...
I fly out of Chesapeake airport (KCPK) which is 68 nautical miles north of Hyde County airport where they departed and was supposed to fly a Skyhawk at 3:00pm on Sunday. I chose not to because there was snow, sleet, and freezing rain reported in the area. Ceiling was 3400 feet, and winds were from the north at 10 with gusts to 17. An instructor who flies out of Epix Aviation, where I fly, reported light icing on his previous flight at 1:00pm. He never got above 3000 feet agl, so I chose to stay on the ground. By 5:00pm it was sleeting and raining here. Not sure what happened there but the weather was marginal at best Sunday.
Good call.
Flown many hours between Raleigh and Ocracoke…usually VFR and skirting R-5306A to the north and northeast, then making SE into Ocracoke at about Great Island.
Very sad story indeed.
Juan, I’d like your view on the potential for an onset of SLD (supercooled large droplets).
His 180 degree turn certainly coincides with the northern edge of R-5306A… but…
Could he have encountered moderate/severe SLD and the 180 was due to this (and just happened to geographically coincide with the edge of 5306?)
I have not looked back at radar summaries so there may not have even been precip it that region. So I’m just kind of thinking aloud here. But…
Also wondering if there were any Pireps for icing… and what the freezing level actually was over the Pamlico during that timeframe (normal lapse rates not withstanding).
Regardless, this is a sad tragedy and hits close to home.
Condolences to family and friends. Just awful.
Let us not forget the controllers involved. I cannot imagine going home at the end of a shift with the deceased's voice still in your head while also thinking of the passengers and their last moments.
Thank you Sir ... We all dislike it when a GA aircraft is lost. Is double sad when a professional pilot is at the controls. A very strange accident.
Is there a possibility of Pilot Incapacitation?
Icing. My heart goes out to all the families involved.
So sad. We need to pray for all the families touched by this accident!
I flew PC 12s up and down the East Coast primarily especially in that area. I have never understood why people would rather scud run VFR than file an IFR flight plan and have a decent approach in marginal weather.
Any chance the pilot might have tried to go IFR but got a routing way around the restricted airspace or something, then decided to make it a straight shot VFR?
@@fhturner3 It’s hard to say until all the information is in. I’ve just noticed a reluctance of people to file a flight plan on a short route. I always felt safer doing that. It doesn’t take that much more time. I think another factor is flying in that area you have to be ready to go IFR at any moment. Before flying the Pilatus PC 12 I flew pipeline patrol in that area. The fog would materialize in front of you and you would be in it before you realized that you had a problem. Flying low level pipeline around the coastal areas from Houston to Newark I had to be ready to go IFR at a moments notice. Weather could degenerate so rapidly that you had to be able to make that transition quickly or you would be in a lot of trouble. That happened to be five or six times that I can remember.
@@jamesmcguire5312 Are you flying Pipelines that are on land and underwater? What is moving through these pipes? Are you looking for leaks, like oil flowing out on land or underwater?
@@sanfranciscobay I flew both kinds of pipelines. Production pipelines are in the fields where the crude oil comes out of the ground and sent to central locations for refining. The ones I was speaking of primarily product or oil or gasoline going from Houston to Newark New Jersey. Fuel products were shipped that full distance and deposited in various tank farms along the route. We primarily look for Construction that would damage the pipeline. The big pipelines had so much pressure that if they broke they would put a geyser of fuel in the air that would be easily visible. We were looking for Backhoes and tractors and anything that might damage the pipeline by digging. We would then report it by radio. With a GPS coordinate. It was very effective. We took the job very seriously. From a pilots point of view you’re at a very low level. Less than 500 feet. You’re having to watch the pipeline plus avoid everything from other traffic in the air to birds. As I mentioned in coastal areas you could transition very quickly from visual flight type day to dense fog.
I've scud run at 130 kts. Stuff comes up on you fast with one mile vis. I can't imagine scudding at 250 kts. The climb and crash gives me the feeling he encountered solid ifr down low and was trying to climb out on top to file an ifr. I've done that before but did not wait to file I immediately called appr control and declared my position squawking 1200 but unable to maintain vfr. I let the controller handle my problem. Best to get on radar asap let them sort you out. Cherry point was sitting there looking at him anyway all he needs do is call
They're gorgeous aircraft! Such a shame... R.I.P. and condolences to family and friends.
Thanks Juan. I find the temp dewpoint spread interesting. Prayers for all involved!
In Foreflight, you can touch and hold any spot on the map to bring up info about nearby airspaces, navaids etc. The restricted area area altitudes and ARTCC will show right there, or you can click on the "details" entry for all of the info.
Good to Know. Thanks.
Juan: Thank you for accurately describing the accident information with reserved speculation. There are MANY reasons this may have happened and to speculate would be a disservice to us all. LOC flight is the very broad category but these types of accidents are usually caused by a combination of several actions or inactions.....I commend you for laying out the facts. I doubt the aircraft had cockpit recorders but hopefully the professionals with knowledge of the aircraft will be able to isolate a cause more granular than LOC. Keep up the good work, your channel is a service to aviation and the public at large.
Speculating from experienced of the cause of an accident is a good idea. Warns those who pay attention and want to stay alive.
This is so said. Thank you Juan for all you do for the Aviation Community. I live in NC and heard about this on the news.
RIP to all souls from a born and raised "tarheel". For anyone curious the coast air station in NC is located in Elizabeth city.
This hits very close to home, I live near MCAS Cherry Point and know a lot of pilots who are based there. Thoughts are with everyone involved in this tragedy. That restricted area near the incident is busy since the Harriers usually train in that area. As a GA pilot, I’ve never flown to that coast yet, but as you said, if you’re not careful, it can be dangerous between military and GA traffic as well as navigating between the intricate airspace. So sad 😞
Blancolirio ,
You have my respect sir. I've tried to give a response, with some questions about these unfortunate aero circumstances and have found first hand how challenging it is to remain respectful and factual simultaneously. The line between a hero and a heel is fine indeed. Keep fighting the good fight .
Juan. Thank You Howard La Pine Oregon
Another great video, Juan. Just one thing, though: at 5:05 from the top weather report at 1958Z, moving downward, you mention that the other METARs show that the weather is deteriorating. I believe that actually, the reverse is true (the latest reports are on top; the earliest is on the bottom) -- it appears that the weather was, in fact, improving slightly, which may have influenced his decision-making process.
At 1839Z, METAR is 03011G21KT 10SM -RA OVC009. The reports at 1858Z & 1949Z show some improvement, but the 1958Z report shows the most improvement: 01009KT 10SM ( no restriction to vis ) OVC012 ; Remarks: RAE05 (Rain ended at 05 [which would be at 1905Z] ).
Technically, I don't believe that he would've needed a clearance to fly VFR through W-122, although it wouldn't be too smart to not get one; also, he should want one for the Core MOA.
I believe that you are correct in that, if he were IFR capable, an IFR flight plan should've probably been filed. There are several RNAV (GPS) approaches to KMRH - Beaufort, including one to RWY 3, which has a MDA 480 ft MSL and 1 mi vis minimum (in reality, a 500-1 approach), if his a/c had an IFR-certified GPS on board and if he was capable of making a GPS approach.
conditions likely were worse over sea/near the barrier islands
Juan, this is Dave Engelhard, the guy who emailed you. Your analysis is excellent. Can you explain why the ADSB data ended at the top of the sudden climb? Why do you think the data didn't end with the sudden descent info instead?
One possibility is that if the airplane gets into a truly unusual attitude, the signal is blocked by the fuselage. There are other possibilities, but this is the one that seems to me to be most likely at this early point.
I was thinking the same thing . strange to lose radar contact at 4300 feet . Almost like what you see when a plane brakes up.
But that wouldnt be the case when he was flying at vy .
Smells like stall/spin . But also looks like incomplète data.
The data did show a rapid descent....if you look at the track log it shows the last ping with an elevation of 2550 feet with a descent rate of over 7,000. Sad.
@@nickjablonske4468 I'll take another look then, thanks...
@@seafuryphil ADSB data is not actual radar data. Just the transponder in the aircraft reporting position.
I have just gone through all the PC12 records in the ASN wikibase (all of them, including the deer strike and the two in there for hangars collapsing).
1 - there are some really oddball electrical issues that crop up occasionally, from autopilot that can tell you it's engaged when it isn't, to trim runaway, to partial and full panel outages
2 - this is apparently a type that you absolutely, positively do *not* let get away from you, whether it's spatial disorientation or any other reason. It's slippery and powerful, one fatal incident had recorders and through spatial disorientation the aircraft managed to get 175 knots *beyond* maximum maneuver speed.
3 - You better frickin' train for problems because some of the incidents I'm reading for trim runaway have disable switches doing things that aren't immediately logical unless you're going through the checklist with a fine toothed comb. Apparently there are relays driving the manual and auto trim systems and the manual can malfunction and constant signal the auto trim (i.e. runaway) but hitting that axis trim runaway switch somehow disables ALL the trim, but either still ends up driving that auto trim actuator or doesn't allow it to zero itself under aerodynamic load (possibly screwjack, or just the way it's designed electrically).
4 - there is at least one non-fatal incident where the instruments actually couldn't be trusted. Blocked pitot drain>wet weather>miscompare
Hard lean towards #2, task overload leading to spatial and the aircraft just getting away from the pilot.
Sounds like a plane that's too smart for its britches,beautiful bird,but I'll pass.
I live in the Beaufort, NC area in Carteret County. I know several of these families. Four teenage boys were killed. The entire community is heart broken!
As for finding the info about the restricted area in Foreflight; I believe you can just touch and hold on the area of interest. A column will come up with the name of the restricted area with a tab that says about. If you click that tab the info is right there.
Thanks. Still getting acquainted with Foreflight.
Many down east NC families hurting as a result of the is tragedy. Thanks for the update.
Our prayers for all of the loved ones.
Prayers for the family
Note that in the list of Weather Sequences (with yellow background) that the one at the top is newest and they get older as you go down the list.
Sad tragedy. Good report as always, Juan. I had the opportunity to fly with a CFII that lived on Ocracoke, in his Cessna 150, from Ocracoke up to the Kitty Hawk monument in Kill Devil Hills, where Phil let me do all the flying including the crosswind takeoff and landing on Ocracoke. Circling the Kitty Hawk monument , twice, was particularly fantastic. Rather than flying back down the coast, Phil said fly over Pamlico Sound, in the restricted airspace, to go back to Ocracoke. The Navy controllers tried contacting Phil while we were doing this , and he responded back he couldn't hear due to radio static, turned the radio off, and we continued back to Ocracoke, uneventfully. Phil said all the military controllers knew who he was ! Lol
The weather condtions that day were unlimited visibility, with winds of 15-20 out of the West. Rest in peace , Phil , he was a great man. Great pilot and even better instructor !!!
Thankyou for this update, I learn something every time you post one of your videos Juan.
Quick addition regarding Foreflight airspace info…if you place and hold your finger within the airspace for a second or two, a menu will pop up and you can get all the info there.
Pilatus PC-12 aircraft are used as air-ambulances throughout Outback Australia by the Royal Flying Doctor Service. A vital service - funded by government and community donations (for aircraft and equipment). My condolences to the victims’ families. KymY in Darwin.
My condolences. I pray every aviator learns from this accident.
May God comfort the families of those who perished in this tragedy. My sincerest condolences.
I don’t understand why so many pilots still use hope as a tool of dodging IMC. Just file a flight plan…it literally takes a few minutes to do. The PC-12 is one of the best and safest aircraft on the planet and unless something major happened like the entire panel crashed (which I know has happened on an older PC-12). This seems like VFR into IMC, then loss of orientation and then death. This will be an interesting case to learn from. Sincere condolences and heart felt prayers to the families of the deceased.
The 4 Honeywell screens communicate with each other and very unlikely all of them would ever shut down, since there is independent battery backup. And agree, such a weather condition, why not File IFR.
This is accident is tragic. I worked for a company up here in Alaska that flys one of PC-12s all over Alaska to different villages. It is an older plane but has been upgraded consistently. This company won’t cheap out on things like this. They also have a Cessna 560 with a cargo door and gravel kit. I know the corporate CEO used to fly around in a Dassault Falcon with three engines.
@@Chris_at_Home A Cessna 560 with cargo door and gravel kit? :D That sounds epic
@@niklaspilot They need the cargo door to be able to put communications racks in there. It took a long time to get the cargo door installed. They have to put the aircraft in a jig to hold it straight during the whole installation. The nice thing about the PC-12 is it comes with a cargo door. They use these aircraft to transport technicians all over the state. Many places it takes all day to get there using commercial aircraft but having their own aircraft you can get to multiple sites in a day. I remember the days when I could carry my techie tool bag on a commercial plane, not anymore.
@@Chris_at_Home makes sense! Would love to fly our C560 off airport… whats the Reg.?
Juan , thanks for the update. Very sad. Condolences to the family.
if you simply hold your finger on the edge of the SUA airspace right on the map on foreflight the information pops up right there on the chart. dimensions, freqs etc.
I've had a runaway pitch trim up in a 47. It was a handful by the time I pushed the disconnect and held it and reduced power to keep stick forces light enough maintain level. I had a right seat crewmember running the QRH and managed to reset the pitch trim and landed with no further problems.
One of the nice things about the new NGX model. It won't allow takeoff unless all trim settings must be correct. Unsure if this bird in question, the NG, has this feature.
@@davidd6635 We were on climbing for about 10 minutes on autopilot. The legacies (45s and 47s) I flew did not have this feature. I know of another crew that had runaway pitch trim during climb also.
Please see my earlier reply to another person suggesting runaway trim
I was in the aircraft and It run away full nose about 3-4 minutes after takeoff
Condolences to families first and foremost. I respect the way you analyze situations on your channel with the information avialable at the time. Your team does very good research before broadcasting. Many channels do not and offer only "hanger talk" Probable Cause speculations.
Thanks for keeping the aviation community informed on these incidents with the carefully vetted and informative perspectives you provide.
with the weather, might have been a iced over static port and not having accurate altitude indication in the plane? or maybe they tried to climb over a cloud layer? don't know, this one we might not find out anything.
Mike Smith (airport) was pilot of Shuttle Challenger in 1986.
I still remember that day ... driving my car to university class when I heard about it.
Thanks Juan
There were two harrier aircraft close by about the time this happened this got my attention because they were circling at lower than normal speed
For such a capable aircraft, a tragedy like this seems very unlikely. It'll be interesting to find out what really happened and what caused a total loss of control. So very sad. Condolences to all the families affected by this tragedy. RIP.
Capable aircraft doesn't mean capable crew. Nobody is above a mistake, but this appears to be a compounded series of mistakes, leading to the crew getting behind the aircraft.
@Bartman my doctor friend has a Pilatus PC 12 and the safest most reliable aircraft in the air it definitely will be interesting to see what really happened. Condolences to all the families involved
It is a very capable aircraft, and mechanically one of the most reliable out there. One of the very notable attributes is its incredibly low stall speed for its size, only 67 Kts at sea level, and overall the handling is very predictable and docile.
@@REALChannel99 I'm not completely up on Pilatus planes, I really only know about the Honeywell suite that was in this plane.
That being said, Cirrus is the company that predominantly offers fuselage mounted ballistic parachutes. I'm sure others may as well.
@@REALChannel99 LOL! That's funny. A parachute on a 8-10 passenger aircraft.
I think you're thinking about Cirrus aircraft. a MUCH smaller plane.
My condolences to the friends and family of those eight lives lost. My father would often comment on incidents like this that spatial disorientation is a killer, you always, always must trust your instruments not your inner ear. Dad said many times that when training RCAF pilots IFR under the hood he would have to yell, TRUST YOUR INSTRUMENTS to the students. And I know, when he bellowed in that Command voice of his, you listened! A shame this accident happened. Not to jump to conclusions but this does strongly look as pilot loss of control.
Sadly the pilot of this aircraft was For Hire and had been flying for this family for a long while now. So many families destroyed over this accident
For those not aviation savvy, "trusting your instruments" to maintain control of the aircraft in bad weather (aka IMC) requires a whole lot of training and a lot of recent experience operating the aircraft solely by reference to those instruments.
@@Freq412 , indeed, I'd be keenly interested in the experience level of the pilot. Perhaps it's "obvious", but seems a majority of aircraft accidents in the last 3-5 years have occurred with relatively low-time (less than 5,000 hrs total, less than 500 in type) pilots. Or has it always been that way?
@@Freq412 good point, I would also add for those not aviation savvy that spatial disorientation can happen to anyone. Spatial disorientation occurs when the part of the inner ear that gives you your balance, gets messed up. Often it occurs when you are in motion but lack sensory input, ie) flying into clouds where you have no visual references. The inner ear may all of sudden make you think you are descending downward when you were flying level and you react by pulling up potentially stalling the aircraft and going into a spin. . As you can imagine this puts a pilot and any passengers at grave risk. I’ve experienced spatial disorientation at home. My inner ear convinced my brain that everything was tilted 45 degrees to the right. I kept leaning to the right to square everything up of course I just fell over. A trip to the hospital, some drugs, very little activity for a couple of days and it went away. The cause of my spatial disorientation was likely a virus.
@@N34RT Do a Google search and look for a video by Paul Bertorelli on this topic, it's great and will inform you. I just don't have time to find it.
Juan, not disagreeing with anything you stated but the ForeFlight piece is wrong. You can just click and hold on the restricted and it’ll bring up a dialog box with frequency, controlling agency, limits, hours of operation. There’s no need to fiddle with map action.
My condolences to the families of the departed. RIP
**fiddling with ForeFlight now** 🙏🙂
Sure as heck…. You’re right! Thanks dude! I am a new user so that helps… a lot
@@thesparkypilot 😂
@@thesparkypilot no problem! Glad to help. ForeFlight is very powerful. Fiddle away!
Several years ago a family of four was lost when the autopilot of the PC-12 failed in IMC and the pilot (husband/father) became disoriented.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a similar situation.
Condolences to all
Very tragic condolences to all families.
Such a capable plane, so sad hope we can determine the root cause and learn from it.
Yes Parr, we as pilots must always Aviate but not 'overpower' the birds capabilities, Navigate, and Communicate. Sounds simple enuf.
@@67polara Yes, why the bird has a stick shaker, And Pusher if pilot doesn't get the hint of shaker indicating very near stall speed of wing....But, pilot can overpower that condition, and unfortunately appears what ultimately happened. Many questions. Pilot might have had a medical emergency that impaired his abilities.
@@davidd6635 There was a second pilot aboard. Hopefully in front.
@@davidd6635
Yep so many possibilities,
@@67polara Yup, doesn't sound like you're a pilot. "too capable"... lol
Thanks for this post Juan! I received a text from a close friend in Beaufort concerned for those on board to find out later they didn't live. VERY familiar with Michael J Smith and traffic in the restricted area. At times military flights are so numerous in that area you would think you were at ATL or CLT. It would be interesting to know the military activity when N79NX went down.
Possible went around weather/rain cloud, accidentally tracked off into restricted airspace, got panicked and confused and was not monitoring altitude, or could not coordinate real world visual with instrumentation readings, and ended up crashing into the water. News reports stated that Rawls ignored previous initial radio contacts from the military base about being in restricted airspace and then at the last contact point explained that he “was trying to get out” (get out of what - weather? military airspace? the seat?) and "unable to receive any radio transmissions" (not wearing headset or even sitting in the pilot's seat?).
The NTSB said the last radio transmission from the plane was at 1:58 p.m. with the aircraft at 1,700 feet. Three minutes later, the civilian airport controller radioed the airplane out of concern because its altitude was at 4,700 feet and climbing rapidly. The NTSB said the pilot never responded to the radio calls. A minute later, radar contact with the plane was lost.
Was one of the kids at the controls and accidentally disabled the autopilot (if applicable) as what happened with Aeroflot Flight 593? Did the pilot have a heart attack or stroke and nobody could recover the plane? Could it be a freak lighting strike? News mentions copilot was just a student with only a certificate and little to none solo flight time. If the captain was incapacitated the copilot would have had no hope at all to fly the plane unassisted - especially a Pilatus.
Hi Juan, always sad to hear when there is loss of lives. With the erratic flight pattern and altitude changes of the aircraft there at the end, I’ll be curious to see if the pilot had some sort of medical issue? My prayers are with the families that lost loved ones.
Thanks Juan, always sad to hear this stuff.
Reference foreflight, you can also long-press on the MOA/Restricted airspace and that will pull up a bunch of clickable options, ie, nearest fix/ airport, airspace etc. If you then click the corresponding restricted area it will have all the times and altitudes for you.
Just for info the W122 is a refueling area for the KC130s out of CP
on FF you can also just touch and hold the Airspace and you can go to details and will give you all the information who to contact and the lateral limits of the airspace.
You can also long touch within the restricted area boundaries to bring up info on altitudes of the area etc…
7:12 One small note. If a restricted area were Cold as confirmed by a call to the controlling agency, no further clearance would have been required (FAA Legal 2010 - Davis)
There is some interesting airspace around there. I'm not a 91, but have flown with friends that are in and around the Pamlico Sound area. Between these very two airports. I sometimes go down there to visit and bring the paraglider. It's not often I get to fly due to wind, but everyone is acutely aware of the restrictions. That the pilot of this flight, who'd made it before, flew into the restricted airspace and had to bug out is bizarre. It was a total noob error on the surface. Hopefully there is some approach communication with CPMCAS that sheds some light on this flight. Maybe it went red after initial clearance? Perhaps the flight was cleared and the wx conditions deteriorated rapidly? This is some airspace I enjoy thoroughly and hope there are some conclusive results from the investigation.
Something other-worldly must have occurred or an incapacitation because to stall and spin a PC12 on a milk run is just unthinkable, I knew this aircraft well, 8 lives lost is beyond heartbreaking. RIP
Heartbreaking...
yeah probably the clotshot got him.
Unless you fly VFR int IMC. Even with an instrument rating, it kills many pilots every year.
Tragic! I’ll stay tuned to JB for updates on this one.
No matter the cause, 8 souls are no longer with their families. Sending prayers and condolences to their families. I do know that GA is going through a troubling period right now. I would encourage all student pilots, and those with not a lot of hours to please get whatever refresher training you need, and learn your airplanes from the inside out. I am no pilot, but I learned to fly the Cessna 172 when I was 17 in 1962. But, I have driven long enough to know that some things will give you a subtle alert before it becomes critical.
Of course it's too early to tell but my money is on VFR into IMC. A stall/spin isn't likely as they don't appear to have gotten anywhere near slow enough (not knowing what their load factor was) and it has a pretty capable shaker/pusher. The only other thing I can think of is a mismanaged trim runaway. I flew for a company that had several PC12s and we had trim issues more frequently than they should have.
Good maintenance comes to mind, since Pilatus recommends regular inspections of the mechanism,
way up, inside that beautiful 14 ft tail.
Do they not have the turbo-prop (lower speed) version of the "mach trim" function on the DC-9 (and later variants)?
@@vk2ig the PC12 does not have any high speed protection, no.
Sorry to hear about this. Victims RIP
Dear Juan. Thanks, Yes its very sad.
RIP for All and the rest of us are here to Learn. The PC12 since 2008 has been the NG model, with the Honeywell all glass panel. Very capable bird, but if not completely comfortable with panel, finding and resetting the instruments was a distraction. It was likely programed for a straight flight thru the Restricted, as Juan's illustration finding info on ForeFlight as an example. Maybe suddenly discovered the Restricted was hot and got disoriented with where, and what the flight director was commanding. Very interested to discover what happened. The bird has stick shaker and pusher both sides.
The CVR shows the pilot was struggling with the nav system and constantly swearing almost the whole flight, until he disconnected the autopilot and got disoriented in apparent IMC.
I used to live in that area. That airspace is guarded. Any mistake in flying in it will likely cost you your plane and license. It's happened before. Good luck Juan! My condolences to the families and friends involved.
That’s not correct.
Wrong.
License?
Your disbelief doesn't prove me wrong.The Marine Major that reported it to the authorities was a friend of mine. The FBI took the pilot's license and his plane. Comment where you know what you're talking about.
@@d.t.4523 You made the statement, so you should give us the proof that a government agency confiscated both the pilot's aircraft and certificate after violating R-5306A
My theory on this is the autopilot was inadvertently turned off. By the time that was recognized, the plane is pointing up and over the ocean. That plane had full synthetic vision, which over the water is Blue over Blue. I think it could be very difficult to regain situational awareness in that scenario, and there just wasn't enough time.
Perhaps he let one of the teenagers put hands on the contols and inadvertently turned the autopilot off. But there would have been a audio and visual warning of this.
@@PKerusso lots of kids on that plane, lots of distractions, and possibly noise. Easy to miss the tone. But who knows.
Thank you Capt. Browne
Thank you Captain! Great report tough stuff🙏🙏👍🤭😢
How terrifying. Condolences to families
All my thought go to the families of these 8 people. I am in no position to speculate what has gone wrong.
Thanks Juan for being the watcher in the sky.
JUAN, Hello, mot heard og this one, so thanks, but so sad, ,,,my condolences to all aboard & their families, it’s NOT deep there so,could be recovered…RIP, ,, 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Don't jump to conclusions. This is a newish 2017 expensive aircraft. Insurance would require a very qualified pilot. That extreme climb toward the end of the flight is worrisome, mechanically.
We haven't seen that before except with stunt planes.
Medical or mechanical.
@@SteamCrane , 2 pilots were aboard, so that makes a medical emergency less likely the culprit.
That hits close to home for me. Flew into Beaufort many times and own a home in the outer banks. Peace
Excellent report as usual, thank you, RB, Nova Scotia.
Spatial disorientation? Even when it's early to speculate, having mentioned that the flight started at around 4 pm, ventured out in the open waters where it's impossible to differentiate the water line from the sky under the hazy conditions you described. This is more likely to happen at dusk and in the dead of winter. The final flight pattern you showed us bore an eerie resemblance to John Jr Kennedy's volatile pattern just before crashing near Martha's Vineyard, under similar conditions. Last but not least, there were no reports of engine failure.
I am not a pilot but have grown up around aircraft...also, I live in NC. Our local stories explain that this group had been on a hunting trip and that the aircraft belonged to the hunting guide. Could it be possible that there was a sudden issue with a firearm left loaded or with a box of ammo in the hold? How are flight controls routed in a Pilatus? Electrical wires to the tail with servos? All hydraulic? I'm just thinking about what could be severed to cause this erratic flight. It's a pressurized plane, but they were at low altitude...I'm at a loss. Very sad for friends, family and community.
looking at the Altitude he was at and subsequent excursion it seems that he was at least IMC for some of the final minutes which for a Pilot who is not current or does not possess an IFR rating can prove deadly. Very unfortunate accident, the accident report should shed some more light on this… My deepest condolences to any family that is left behind.
Thank you for the information. It’s close to us here on the coast.
THANK YOU JUAN, GREAT VIDEO...
With the zoom climb to stall, I am wondering if it was a run away trim tab.
Looks like the pilot didn't check the status of the restricted area before departure? If he knew, wouldn't he have headed straight for the outer banks? Maybe if he had known beforehand he wouldn't have made the trip? (Here I am assuming that the detour forced the pilot into IMC) Which raises the question, why not return when he learned he couldn't use the restricted airspace?
Getthereitis?
I'm not a pilot, (Instances like this are why. Oh, and relative poverty.) so I may be off base here.
@blancoliro the NTSB released their final report on this accident, spatialdisorientation and not having flight plan inputproperly
Well Done Sir. We thank you.
In foreflight to see info on airspace such as this restricted area, you can press and hold your finger on the restricted area and a menu will pop up from the right side. There you can click details on the airspace you want info on. just a handy tip for anyone who didnt know