The argument around mana drain, is that you also have to look at it in context. This card was released back when Mana Burn was a thing in Magic, and so countering something for 6-7 mana and then not having anything to spend it on would smack you for that much in the face at the end of your main phase. So originally, it was not strictly better than Counterspell, it just added some more variance to it.
I was thinking this exact same thing. I'm glad I scanned the comments before making my own haha but yeah, it was potentially Counterspell with a downside when it was printed.
funnily enough they thought that mana drain was the "fixed" counterspell when designing it. (Specifically due to the mana burn argument. In addition to back in the early days of magic there wasn't as coherent of deck design prevalent.
I remember watching the first TTC episode about Cube, and wanting to building a cube back then. And I did. And it was fun. Now that I see this episode, I'm getting those same feelings. Guess it's time to start cubing again.
I actually started making cubes because of james mentioning the pauper cube years ago, I've built 3 since: A pretty normal legacyesque cube full of walkers, high tier cards etc. A silverblack kamigawa cube because i love it, a silverblack artifact cube for my robot loving friends, and very recently a budget (average card price is below 0.50 last I checked) multplayer cube that looks sweet. It's really easy to actually just START cubing and its a HEAP of fun and a great way to scratch a designer itch if you have one.
I find it interesting that as a control player Cameron's first thought on Force is that it is a very good counterspell when you are afraid of combo. As a (mostly blue based) combo player my first thought is that it is a very good counterspell when you are afraid of control.
so I have a cube as a result of james talking about his pauper cube ages ago. It's a 3 mana or less cube. So yeah thanks lrr for getting me into cube :D
Cam and Alex cutting Thunderous Wrath really bummed me out. It's absolutely bonkers in my peasant cube and I have fond memories of drafting a playset during my LGS' mm17 release draft.
The cube looks lots of fun. I've just come back from watching the draft on twitch and have played some test drafts on tapped out, and I wouldn't mind trying to acquire a version for myself. My only complaint really is that, while the cube is stated to focus on draft strategies using the enemy colours, I didn't feel compelled to go into enemy colours while drafting. I believe this is because of the number of gold cards that are in the cube that use ally colours versus the amount that use enemy colours. Nearly half of the gold cards are in ally colours, diluting the signal that people should be attempting to go into two colour pairs. If you would want the enemy colour theme more pronounced, I would recommend cutting all allied colour gold cards (which is a shame, as there are some sweet cards in there) and replacing them with enemy colour gold cards or filling out the mono coloured cards. I hope to see more highlander/cube content in future. I find it entertaining
There's a lot that could be discussed about the cube building process here, but since you're aiming for a "Stuff we like" approach, I think it worked out okay, and I look forward to seeing how it drafts! You'll definitely want to revisit the list after your first draft, but editing is the most important part of the creative process =)
You really don't. It's been a cute joke, but playing a pile of truly awful cards would in reality be unbearably boring and tedious for players and viewers alike.
I actually built a cube based off that, www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/58728 its fun if you enjoy the challenge it creates of trying to scrape together playables, it definitely leads to some interesting games and choices
On the note of your lands Alex (and the black vs white border cards comment): I have a "core-set" cube, all the basic lands I use in that cube are white bordered revised lands, love them :D
Oh I'm working on a cube in which you draft EDH decks (given 2 random commanders to choose from)...been working on it for about 2yrs now, around 700 cards in the pool
Thanks for some of the advice LRR, I've got an EDH Cube I've been working on and off on for the past 2yrs A lot of time designing the lists and getting cards, trying form General archetypes and strategies in this massive pool Thanks for some ideas
As someone who loves and owns multiple cubes, I greatly enjoyed this episode. I suck at deck building, so I found a list to start from as a skeleton and then changed it from there, and it was interesting to see you guys make this from the ground up. The drafting and games of it on AFK were also very entertaining and show that this has been a success, so kudos to you folks. My biggest complaint is in regards to Bonfire. It's not interesting, it's not skill intensive, it's, "whoops, I win now" and more often than not rewards variance way too highly. I have no qualms about its regular cost, but the miracle cost is just silly. From watching the games with Cam and Adam, you can see just how 'not fun' bonfire really is. Of course topdecks can win games or give you a chance at coming back, but bonfire is so prone to causing you to win and not having it be close at all. Obviously it's your cube and your decision, just sharing my 2 cents for anyone interested.
my cube is based around $0.50-$1.00 rares and only basic lands. i got most of the cards for my cube during prereleases doing some gambling games. my friends joke that the sleeves cost more than the cube
Idea for a TapTapConcede: Beej and James brew a postmodern zombie highlander deck, while Alex is bound and gagged in the third chair and must listen helplessly.
the funny part is that mana drain was considered a "drawback" at the time it was printed. because mana burn was a thing. it never, ever actually was a drawback though lol.
didn't you guys prepare a chaos draft in a recent episode or was that just wishful thinking? or did I just miss the upload of that? also love the almost 2 hour episode! it feels like you aren't rushed like in the shorter episodes sometimes
The chaos draft happened a few weeks back. The PPR and tabletop day might have delayed the youtube upload. The firtsp art of the twitch VOD is here: www.twitch.tv/videos/132591166
The last time I was this early... Some card that is now banned wasn't banned yet! What? It's a solid joke. No, I don't know the banlist of highlander, sorry. Fine, I will go away.
The argument around mana drain, is that you also have to look at it in context. This card was released back when Mana Burn was a thing in Magic, and so countering something for 6-7 mana and then not having anything to spend it on would smack you for that much in the face at the end of your main phase. So originally, it was not strictly better than Counterspell, it just added some more variance to it.
That was the theory, but even among people who played it you could count on one hand the times people took damage from mana drain
Well yeah - the intentions did not really match the end result with that card.
I was thinking this exact same thing. I'm glad I scanned the comments before making my own haha but yeah, it was potentially Counterspell with a downside when it was printed.
funnily enough they thought that mana drain was the "fixed" counterspell when designing it. (Specifically due to the mana burn argument. In addition to back in the early days of magic there wasn't as coherent of deck design prevalent.
@@helioscomis3732 lol you commented two years later to say the same thing as every other comment
I'm getting *'I think I'm just dead here'* on my gravestone, don't worry, I make sure you're properly credited.
39:15
"Dragon Fodder or Krenko's Command? How you gona make them goblins Alex? Huh?"
"Whatever, it's Cube he can just play them both!"
Grimwear Instantly popped into my head. Now we know the answer.
I remember watching the first TTC episode about Cube, and wanting to building a cube back then. And I did. And it was fun. Now that I see this episode, I'm getting those same feelings. Guess it's time to start cubing again.
I actually started making cubes because of james mentioning the pauper cube years ago, I've built 3 since: A pretty normal legacyesque cube full of walkers, high tier cards etc. A silverblack kamigawa cube because i love it, a silverblack artifact cube for my robot loving friends, and very recently a budget (average card price is below 0.50 last I checked) multplayer cube that looks sweet. It's really easy to actually just START cubing and its a HEAP of fun and a great way to scratch a designer itch if you have one.
I find it interesting that as a control player Cameron's first thought on Force is that it is a very good counterspell when you are afraid of combo. As a (mostly blue based) combo player my first thought is that it is a very good counterspell when you are afraid of control.
so I have a cube as a result of james talking about his pauper cube ages ago. It's a 3 mana or less cube. So yeah thanks lrr for getting me into cube :D
A 5% discount on this cube probably comes out to about 1000 dollars.
Cube is probably my favourite way to play magic. Endless hours of gameplay, constructing, fun.
i cant wait for next April when they draft the cube
Aaron Kenyon I cant wait xD
Cam and Alex cutting Thunderous Wrath really bummed me out. It's absolutely bonkers in my peasant cube and I have fond memories of drafting a playset during my LGS' mm17 release draft.
The cube looks lots of fun. I've just come back from watching the draft on twitch and have played some test drafts on tapped out, and I wouldn't mind trying to acquire a version for myself.
My only complaint really is that, while the cube is stated to focus on draft strategies using the enemy colours, I didn't feel compelled to go into enemy colours while drafting. I believe this is because of the number of gold cards that are in the cube that use ally colours versus the amount that use enemy colours. Nearly half of the gold cards are in ally colours, diluting the signal that people should be attempting to go into two colour pairs. If you would want the enemy colour theme more pronounced, I would recommend cutting all allied colour gold cards (which is a shame, as there are some sweet cards in there) and replacing them with enemy colour gold cards or filling out the mono coloured cards.
I hope to see more highlander/cube content in future. I find it entertaining
These are some of my favorite podcasts that you guys do
There's a lot that could be discussed about the cube building process here, but since you're aiming for a "Stuff we like" approach, I think it worked out okay, and I look forward to seeing how it drafts! You'll definitely want to revisit the list after your first draft, but editing is the most important part of the creative process =)
is it bad that i kind of want to see you guys draft and play the strictly worse cube.
Heck, I've looked into BUILDING the Strictly Worse cube
I have done things of that nature. It is fun until you play it.
You really don't. It's been a cute joke, but playing a pile of truly awful cards would in reality be unbearably boring and tedious for players and viewers alike.
I actually built a cube based off that, www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/58728 its fun if you enjoy the challenge it creates of trying to scrape together playables, it definitely leads to some interesting games and choices
Isaac Simon I thought you said the cube was suppose to be weak?????? You put in storm crow!!! Well I concede.
On the note of your lands Alex (and the black vs white border cards comment): I have a "core-set" cube, all the basic lands I use in that cube are white bordered revised lands, love them :D
Odyssey Plains #333 is the best Plains.
I can see why people like that one. For me, it might be my least favourite plains from Odyssey. Maybe tied for last with #332.
I like Invasions Plains 331 and the Jesper Myrfors Revised Plains
Mirrodin Plains #289 is the best! (I absolutely love it)
My favorite plains is Fate Reforged #177.
I mainly play commander so i have like a long list of basics to pick from
Awesome! Love this content as I just started a revamp on my cube.
Know what's gross? Sram's Expertise into Hordeling Outburst.
Cube building was fun, hoping to see more of it (or at least deck building =])
From the title I thought it was a cube from which you drafted Highlander decks, This is still good though
Could probably pull it off if you draft 5-6 packs and have a 720 cube. It would make for some weird synergy.
Yeah it'd definitely be 'Interesting' haha
I have a cube where you do this. You draft 7 packs, and it is a ton of fun (if you have an afternoon to spend on it)
Technically all cube decks are highlander decks. 40 card highlander but still highlander. (Except for the weird cubes that aren't singleton.)
Oh I'm working on a cube in which you draft EDH decks (given 2 random commanders to choose from)...been working on it for about 2yrs now, around 700 cards in the pool
Does anyone else want to see them draft cube irl more often?
Great episode. Just a heads up, you forgot the link to the list
"Highlander Cube"
YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! [insert gif of Daniel Bryan]
Thanks for some of the advice LRR, I've got an EDH Cube I've been working on and off on for the past 2yrs
A lot of time designing the lists and getting cards, trying form General archetypes and strategies in this massive pool
Thanks for some ideas
Wooooo time to tap and tap again and then give up.
9:50 *Allied pairs*. Having said that and potentially become "that guy", I love your stuff!
As someone who loves and owns multiple cubes, I greatly enjoyed this episode. I suck at deck building, so I found a list to start from as a skeleton and then changed it from there, and it was interesting to see you guys make this from the ground up.
The drafting and games of it on AFK were also very entertaining and show that this has been a success, so kudos to you folks.
My biggest complaint is in regards to Bonfire. It's not interesting, it's not skill intensive, it's, "whoops, I win now" and more often than not rewards variance way too highly. I have no qualms about its regular cost, but the miracle cost is just silly.
From watching the games with Cam and Adam, you can see just how 'not fun' bonfire really is. Of course topdecks can win games or give you a chance at coming back, but bonfire is so prone to causing you to win and not having it be close at all.
Obviously it's your cube and your decision, just sharing my 2 cents for anyone interested.
must admit I'm looking forward to seeing this played on stream (this week?) especially given that I don't remember how much limited Alex plays.
HeraldBFC sadly it will be put off because Alex has the plague again and can't attend instead they are drafting a box of Ahmonket
also cube liiiiiiist/cubetutor?
may I ask why the rattlechains? it's a sweet card and all, I just don't think it's that good without many spirits/ spirit subtheme
Yeah I didn't get that one.
Where is the card list?
Topcam the entire time would be great if this is or something like this is ever done again.
2 Things: I hope we get to see this drafted and played sometime. And Miracle Grow is Plant Food.
0dysseus42 In Magic, it's called Miracle Gro (I think as a play on Aggro). The name is from before my time.
Those islands are great eh. I like the Khans 'Abzan' basics too.
my cube is based around $0.50-$1.00 rares and only basic lands. i got most of the cards for my cube during prereleases doing some gambling games. my friends joke that the sleeves cost more than the cube
Where can I find the AFK where they play this cube?
how is zombielander going
This is the video I want. Also could you bring the highlanders come in and talk about the newer sets.
It needs more 1 drops, and maybe one or two 2 drops, you can find his builds right here
tappedout.net/users/Garzweiler/
Idea for a TapTapConcede: Beej and James brew a postmodern zombie highlander deck, while Alex is bound and gagged in the third chair and must listen helplessly.
I think that would be against TOS ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I love the deck building episodes their my favorite
Will we get a list of this cube?
That "Strictly Worst" Cube that James and Cameron build and that Modern Masters Cube Cathleon has....
Alex's Mono-Red cube
I actually built a very similar cube so please put the list online cause im looking for inspiration.
Thanks a bunch !
Inspired me to build an EDH cube
Have you guys recorded playing this cube?
Yeah. Out if interest I also do not play lightning bolt in my cube because it undermines all the 1mana deal 2, and 2 mana deal 3.
But how's the sealed league going tho
the funny part is that mana drain was considered a "drawback" at the time it was printed. because mana burn was a thing. it never, ever actually was a drawback though lol.
would love to play my ravnica and RtR block cube more often but our playgroup just isn't big enough to get 5 or 7 other players together regularly :(
plzzzzz draft this i would love to watch it
Am I the only one that laughed when Alex said "angelic destiny" at the beginning?
Please draft this!!!
Any plans to put a list online? Cubetutor, perhaps?
RollForInitiative description
What would it take for you guys to give your thoughts on a legacy cube i have put together. I would love you imput and ideas pros and cons :)
Anyone have a link to the draft?
Alex got sick so it has not actually happened yet, but will be happening Fri May 26!
Did they draft it this friday?
They did! There are two vods on their twitch (stream went down in the middle) if you don't want to wait for the RUclips upload.
Is this going to be drafted on AFK?
I really want to watch cam force Izzet on camera while drafting this cube
You know Cameron is a true Canadian when he has a drink from tim Hortons
can some one put up the link to the draft it self
Hasn't happened yet. Was supposed to be streamed on Friday, but Alex was too too sick
I need this list badly......................
Anton Vitek description
can we please have alex post a list of his toolkit
Blade splicer seems Good for a sacrifice deck
didn't you guys prepare a chaos draft in a recent episode or was that just wishful thinking?
or did I just miss the upload of that?
also love the almost 2 hour episode! it feels like you aren't rushed like in the shorter episodes sometimes
The chaos draft happened a few weeks back. The PPR and tabletop day might have delayed the youtube upload. The firtsp art of the twitch VOD is here: www.twitch.tv/videos/132591166
Michael Hutton thanks a lot :)
Idea fot TTC: Beej opens and discusses Magic Puzzle Quest boosters.
Also, isn't this a Highlander sandwich?
BOSTON STRONG Jay
The last time I was this early... Some card that is now banned wasn't banned yet!
What? It's a solid joke. No, I don't know the banlist of highlander, sorry. Fine, I will go away.
It doesn't have one, it uses a points list instead.
I mean technically there's the normal minimum banlist too (Dex cards, ante cards, and Shahrazad)
Hymn just stopped Cameron from talking.
my cube is heavily combo-centric
so... what ever happened to the strictly worse cube?
You put in spell snare, said spell pierce. Fyi
Eww, speak english not canadian
#iknowtheenglishlanguageverywell