what did you think of the finale for Ice King? If you want to support the channel, consider my Patreon, where you'll get access to videos early, and at higher tiers, Patreon-exclusive videos. Patreon: www.patreon.com/sagesrain
I wanted to say I love love love your videos I havent read the Attack on Titan Manga so I won't be able to watch your videos on it But I absolutely can't wait to watch them @Sage's Rain
If I remember correctly, this entire backstory was written because the crew made a joke where there was a video of Ice King singing the fries song, and then they realized they needed to explain how he knew the song And I love that all this came from that joke
Well, if you factor in the fact that the episode that the clip in question appeared in, Holly Jolly Secrets, also gave us the first preview of Simon Petrikov before he put on the crown and his descent into madness.... It's kinda poetic.
They could’ve done a dumb short episode of nothingness with this idea, but they really went all out with this story. Just like they always do with their background and side characters.
I need some help. So I watch adventure time on hulu and I keep seeing extra bits is there like other episodes on other channels or something or is it like ATLA where they made spinoff versions. On my tv there is no info about Marcys mom other than the VHS tape with BMO and when she was singing it flashbacks to when she was younger.
When betty showed, I realized that she's HIS princess he was looking for even under his insanity. ANd yes, its sadder when he called her beautiful lady, not recognizing her at all :(
Simon had been on a downward spiral losing any sanity he had left and he still devoted himself to watch over and ensure Marceline’s safety. How he went from a seemingly senile old goofball to one of the most tragic and heartbreaking lives of anyone in the world really highlights Adventure Time’s brilliant world building.
If I remember correctly his sanity only slipped further when he wore the crown. So basically if he didn't put it on anymore he would still be sane. He willingly sacrificed his sanity for her
@@Lenin941FN The fact that he managed to fight off the voice of the crown pulling him to wear it for so long in order to protect her and only seemingly accepts it when it will help her live is also very telling.
@@McDinglefart_69 You act like a 5 year old. A 5 year old with no artistic skills is the kind of person who thinks the art is bad because it's simplified.
Ice King's story reminds me of losing someone to dementia. The gradual, inevitable stripping away of who they were and the horror of knowing that there's nothing you can do to stop it. His story makes me cry every time.
Pretty sure his story was intended to be so, as the parallels to caring for someone with such a degenerating mental state hit too close to the mark to be unintentional. There is so much more emotional depth to AT than your average viewer ever expects!
I like the idea of Marceline accepting Simon and Betty not being able to. The main difference is that Betty had no time to grieve and accept that Simon is gone but Marci had that time and at some point, she starts accepting him for what he is. While the Ice King and Simon do share personalities I don't think they are the same person though. It seems that the Ice King has his own personality with his own desires but is often corrupted by the magic of the crown.
I think that the connection he made to wandavision is important, grief is love perceviering, we can also look at the connection between simon and vision's multiple versions on the show, resurected vision and white vision both have the same amount of humanity as original vision and deserve the same amount of love and appreciation, are capable of the same love and heroism and ultimatly are the same though so completely differant, just like ice king and simon, simon being the original hanity that was sacrificed for the creation of ice king, no matter what happens he is not truly himself and at the same time there is a new person, an ice king who can't be dismissed as a mere problem vecause he does deserve respect. Marcy sees this and is sad and grows to appreciate ice king and treat him with the respect he deserves as well as with the love she has for simon, betty is hurt again and again by the crown and its understandable why she feels the way she does, its also partly a writing thing, the creators made a decision that simon himself will return to live and therefore giving betty what she wanted, but they wanted to stress how this mindset of only accepting ur view of a person and veing rewarded for ir is not the best so they decided to not give it to her and go with the self sacrifice bit. This goes well for mental health stuff and junk and also the ice king persona being a seperate thing in the crown gems made this easy like the video shows. Anyway i should go to sleep amd stop redditing on youtube.
i think it's cuz multiple people wore it before simon so their personality mix and match to create an entirely new being. take fin from the regular world, he's radically different from the ice king we know.
I'm just sitting back in my chair with my arms crossed, slowly realizing that perhaps Ice King is one of the most well-developed characters in cartoon history.
I think the distinction should be made between the Ice King and Simon Petrikov. Ice King is the delirious lunatic who's always being a creep. Simon is the downright noble hero who let himself be consumed by that creep to protect an innocent child when she needed him and spent the next millennium fighting like hell to break free.
One of the most painful moments during Come Along with Me was seeing Simon attempting to wish for Betty back from Prismo during the ending montage, only for him to end up with nothing but the same failed wish Magic Man got when attempting to wish for his wife back from Golb. It makes me wonder how much of his life did he dedicate to trying and failing to bring Betty back once again even after the finale.
If ever time allows and accepts, I shall hope they can be together again Adventure Time had many tragic stories, left that way and gave it all that way, it's granted but not truly all happily forever after..
Almost feels like Ice King and Marcelines relationship is an allegory for people both suffering and coming into acceptance of the effects of Alzheimers :(
Adventure Time is full of tragedies: 1. Ice King, a respected scientist cursed by a magical crown turned crazy forever longing for his "princess"(Betty). 2. Marceline. Left alone as a child all alone while losing Simon, her only friend at the time. 3. Finn, the last surviving human(or so we thought) who despite his happy personality is actually deep down disturbed and lonely about being the only human left. 4. The Land of Ooo. Bears the scars of a massive war that resulted in the deaths of millions. The bones of the dead, broken buildings, and many wreckage are still visible to this day. All of these tragedies are masked by fun, happy adventures but look closely and in each episode you can always see the scars of a dark, sad past.
You also didn’t really go in depth on many of the tragedies. For example, Marceline and her mother managed to stay alive through the mushroom war but the mom started dying and Marcy thought her own mother left her, and then after Simon left, she ended up in the care of her extremely evil father and then she became a vampire and lost all of her human friends
(For people who don’t know, probably) The Great Mushroom war, when the Cold War turned into a hot war. Near nuclear annihilation of the human species. Billions dead… only thousands left. Ww3 in short.
Technically he didn't lose everything cause he had said prior that the crown left his consciousness as simon in a dream like state so he was friends with Finn and Jake and that is proven in Distant Lands when he says he went to get help and pulls up with Adult Finn. He didn't have Betty and his old life from before the crown but he at least knew who was around him.
I could have sworn the reason Marcelines mother left was to save her the pain of watching her slowly fade from illness. It wasn't the _best_ reason but i was sure that was what happened
Oh, man. Marcy's mother disappeared because she didn't want her daughter to watch her fade away... but Marcy wound up facing that slow loss anyway due to Simon. How tragic.
2:55 Even Finn lost his mind instantly, while it took Simon years to lose his Edit: Although, it might be because farmworld Finn didn’t have the same experiences as the main Finn. Finn at the end of the series, or even after the Hall of Egress, would probably have taken a longer time.
Probably the victims who fall to it too quickly is probably people whi have the mentality of a child. Gunther the lizard was a child, finn was child. Whilst others were able to hold it off for a few moments. Simon held it off for YEARS. His will was strong before it eventually shattered.
@@franciscoOrellana29 there's no difference because the point of change was the creation of the lich, which was born long after the crown was corrupted by gunthers wish.
Yes , i remember Gunther mentioning that sven (?) The Scandinavian boy inside the crown just used once it , so either he died or went completely insane with it.
My theory is maybe it's age, maturity and their situations. Ice King being a well matured scientist, he probably mentally fought off the mental altering powers of the crown as long as he did because he knew and understood of his responsibilities and loved ones. Plus, he had a better way of dealing with when he needed the crown over time, like when in danger or for mobility. It took Finn over quickly because he was young and couldn't grasp too much but what was happening at the moment or what the future was going to be like for it. Like it was a chaotic scene prior to him wearing the crown, so it quickly went to work on his brain.
I remember as a kid I hated the Ice King and his princess schemes but as I got older I grew to adore him so much for his will to sacrifice himself for those he cares about
@@digimonalvatrax2738 back then before people knew who ice king actually was. We always saw him ad that bad guy who tries to kidnap a princess all the time. But when we start learning who Simon is. We grow to understand and love him.
Ice King is one of the most complicated and tragic characters of any cartoon, i think. He’s harmless (for the most part) and doesn’t have a full grasp on what’s morally correct; he doesn’t understand why some things are wrong. And, the funny thing is, he’s never really seen Finn or Jake as enemies, probably not even frenemies. In most of his actions, he means well, and oftentimes feels like a failure when things go wrong An episode that’s been playing on in my mind writing this is when he dropped snow over the Candy Kingdom. In that act, his intentions were pure, but had unexpected, abhorrent consequences. Honestly, i think no other VA than Tom Kenny could have ever nailed this role so perfectly
Going off of what you said about Simon calling Marcy “darling” and other kind names, it parallels how Hunson Abadeer calls her his “little monster”. It’s a small but interesting detail since it shows how differently both men see Marcy. Simon sees her as an innocent child and recognizes her human-side, while Hunson sees her as a product of his own that he values for her demon-side.
The most beautiful moment in the show for me is in "Don't Look". When Finn looks at Ice King with the jewel eyes, he doesn't see Ice King, he sees Simon
Marceline's relationship with Ice King is like a child to a parent with Alzeimer's disease where they have to step up to take care of their parent - they don't even remember their child but the child takes care of them regardless out of love of how they took care of them when they were younger.
But if you think about it he really didn't get the ending he deserved, Betty is no longer in his life, he is now mortal, and marceline has to live with losing him again
@@timesphere5199 if he was mortal wouldn't he die from old age immediately? Also he doesn't show any symptoms of aging in distant lands, despite Finn looking a lot older.
@@clownworld4655 I mean true but imagine what marceline has to go through again, not to mention that his main goal from the beginning was to be with Betty and now he is forced to die without her. He also has lasting ptsd from everything. I can't imagine his life being that much better than before
0:30 she didn’t leave her daughter behind. She was on the edge of death and didn’t want her daughter to see it. So she sent Marcy to what was a safe-room (that was abandoned) where she believed somebody was still alive to look after her daughter. And that’s far more tragic.
I’m so glad we learned her mom didn’t just up and ditch her out of fear it was because she was dying (most likely of radiation poisoning) and didn’t want Marceline to see her die
I always loved the idea that ice kings character was always supposed to represent people with Alzheimer’s or dementia. I think your video compliments that perfectly
its so sad that he keeps looking for marceline but doesnt understand why. its also sad time with simon being completly confused and lost and doesnt really understand why betty wants to have him. and at the same time betty is going mad from th emagic and begins to obsess over getting simon back
Considering he looks the same in Obsidian despite Finn having grown into an adult, I think it's safe to say that Simon kept the eternal life despite being freed from the crown.
This character, This character is why I love adventure time. When I think of adventure time I think of Simon or ice King, his story truly makes you sympathize with him and the people around him. I loved that episode with Marcaline and him, it makes you feel the pain and anger of Marcaline and makes you feel absolutely horrible for Simon. I know Simon's story is good because every time think of it I still feel the same emotions of sadness that I felt the first time I watched it.
that mental image of her, floating...eyes closed and trying her damnedest not to break down in tears as she keeps playing... It's seared into my mind. yeah, for the first year or so I gave the show flak for visuals and whatnot and never watched it... I really have a bad habit of judging entertaining books by their cover art >.> I REMEMBER YOU was actually one of the first episodes of Adventure Time I saw... I knew just enough to get the idea of who IK and Marcy were in-universe...
I knew Adventure Time was something special when they started showing us Simon’s backstory. That episode with the VHS tapes changed the way I watched AT forever
I'd given the show flak before... but I REMEMBER YOU was among the first episodes I actually saw, I had just enough understanding to know who IK and Marceline were in-universe...and then bam, tragically well written backstory.
in horror movies there's this term called "body horror", that exemplifies our concept about what is "looking human" and the distorcion of our bodies in an almost philosofical way but lately there's this term called "soul horror" that is very common in animation medias, exploring the what is "feeling human" and this feeling (not gut punching but heart punching) about the distorcion of our minds, like madness, etc simon and the ice king always makes me feel that way
My assumption was it took centuries for Marceline to grow even to a teenager. Therefore the Ice King took centuries to take over Simon. I assume this from the growth of princess bubblegum as random litter into a sentient being. The growth around the devastated cities and the fact that she still isn’t quite a fully grown adult even at the end of the series. Bubblegum even started over in some sense as a child even though it didn’t last long she is essentially rejuvenated. All of Finns past lives seem to have occurred from the moment of the war to now. Which has always lead me to believe Simons descent into madness was over the course of possibly a millennia.
marceline grew to the age she is now in normal time, she aged like a normal person up until she became a vampire and got stuck at the age she is in the show. it also didn't take long for the crown to take over simon, i'd say probs a decade or two, judging by how he went from normal simon (mentally speaking) when he first found her to being half simon half ice king by the time he left her. he was already halfway gone at that point, judging by how he went from being sweet to her as simon to doing/saying ice king things back and forth. and he was even further gone but not completely by the time marceline had become a vampire, based on what the empress said about him. and i think it's implied finn's past lives go back to way before the war, just based on that pink sentient primordial blob he was in the past but idk for sure, and the blue catalyst comet was before the war too i believe. I just finished rewatching so it's fairly fresh in my brain, but i could be wrong on some things idk lol didn't think this was going to be a whole paragraph, sorry about that
I vividly remember this was the first time I cried when watching a cartoon. I just had it on while doing something else I think and then I stopped what I was doing when I heard them singing I remember you. Shit was so sad.
I think one of the interesting things about the tear scene is we see throughout the show that Marceline won't let people get too close. But especially that she gets angry and won't admit to being hurt. Putting on a hard scary shell instead. This is likely because when she showed the smallest amount of pain the closest thing she had to a dad ran away in fear of hurting her. So she pretty much turned her while personality into "Look at me no one can hurt me"
I remember someone making a theory about Ice King having dementia which is a little bit funny, sad and unsettling at the same time... Yikes... 💀 And realizing that Princess Bubblegum reminds him of Betty probably explains why he kidnap Bubblegum more often.
I think what really strikes me when it comes to Simon is how he much he never really gives up. Despite being trapped within his own mind and unable to be his true self he still tried to find a princess, HIS princess. And now he will continue to search for her even if it seems pretty much impossible.
I absolutely adore Ice King. He became my single favorite character over the series because of the amount of growth he went through without ever fundamentally changing as a person, and showing that even though people might act differently and in ways that we consider weird, it doesn't mean they're bad people. And they can be a part of our world without being ostracize if you're willing to meet them halfway and ease them into understanding how to behave, even if they don't fully understand it. I feel like the unrequited loyalty he felt towards Finn for most of the series shows this best, even though it always caused trouble, it was rarely done out of malice towards them after the early seasons
I feel like this could be a metaphor for losing people to addiction. Throughout the video i couldn’t help but think this is what people who love addicts feel.
adventure time is funny because as kids we love it for the cartoons and entertainment, as adults we look back and it’s like, there’s *so much* more in this cartoon. It sounds silly but the more you see it the more you see
one thing that I occasionally think about is how determined Simon must have been to be able to track down Marceline's dad and somehow convinced him to come back. I mean, her dad's a demon for crying out loud. it can't be as easy as picking up the phone.
And now it gets more complicated because of the recent release episode of Fionna and Cake not only that Simon lost his one true princess he also feels like he doesn't fit in with his friends anymore
This episode never fails to make me sob. He truly loves her like his own. And then lost every part of him that made him Simon. Ripped away from the last person who loved him to protect her. If you don't truly understand loss you just won't get it.
Honestly; seeing that this video was about Ice King made me click the video. The tears I'm crying are because of how I can relate to his plight highly. You always do amazing videos that are thought provoking as well as tearjerking. Thank you for being the badass author you've been being
One time, my sisters and I used almost $20 on a crane game just to win a tiny plush Ice King because he's the only character our dad liked. Now, he takes Ice King with him for every trip. He always sends a picture of Ice King.
My favorite example of character development of this show is when Finn starts to call the Ice King "Simon", and treats him more like an old aquaintance and even an ally, where as he treated him with nothing but disgust and ridicule in the early seasons. Not only is it an example of how the others characters (besides Marceline and Betty) start to accept him, and see beyond that cold shell, it also shows how much Finn has matured over the years, relying more on diplomacy and compassion, rather than brute force. That's what true heroes do.
Finding out why Ice King is crazy was already heart wrenching, finding out why he's got an obsession with princesses was just another wrench thrown at me.
God didn't realize what Marceline's mother actually did. I haven't watched Adventure Time or those longer episodes on HBO in a long while so I always thought Marceline's mom scared her so she would go somewhere safe. Jesus the show is good.
Well, it was more that she didn't want Marcy to watch her die, as she knew she was going to die and didn't want Marcy to deal with that. Marceline didn't know that, though, until many years later, so she thought her mom abandoned her. This video was more talking about Marceline perspective on what happened.
4 years into my marriage my husband began suffering from increasingly intense mental illness. It should be noted how little help exists for situations like ours. Going missing, in and out of jail (he had never been in trouble before this), before long I no longer recognized him. I would try to make him remember, try to 'bring him back' and ended up frustrated and angry. It's really funny when i tell people the thing that changed my approach to dealing with this was a childrens cartoon.We are still together now for 8 years. He has been the ice king now for as long as he was Simon to me.I have grieved one man and learned to love the other. In a time where i felt, so SO alone (family and friends just get tired. Its understandable) Adventure Time was a beacon of light in a very, very dark time for me. I felt seen and gently guided. Love is sacrifice. It's incredible that you chose to include that Wanda Vision quote, just one more synchronicity.
SPOILER Now, we know, thanks to Fiona & Cake, that she was obsessed and would do anything, anything, for him That is not love, it is obsession, as she herself shows; more than once she abandoned herself for Simón, at the bus stop, when she goes into the portal to the future with Simón, sacrificing herself, becoming GolBetty; even in the end, as a divine entity that she is now, she continues to protect Simon, not letting him put on the crown again
I still love that throughout Adventure Time, we see Ice King slowly become more and more prominent. He’s not just some funny old man with ice powers who’s obsessed with princesses anymore. He’s a lot more fleshed out, given more attention and care, and even becomes associated with Marceline. The episode where him and Marcy were singing the letters really did break my heart. Marcy begging Simon to remember, and he’s just not. It’s heart breaking.
I always felt bad for ice king even in the first seasons when he was a maniacal princess kidnapper. It make me understand that all he wanted was love and before the crown thing, he just was a normal man, who was loved. As the series have continued, I don't know why but, I've hated Finn and Jake a bit for not understanding Simon's tragedy earlier and they watched his past tapes, continuing to beat the crap out of him. Such a poor poor man.
Ice King is my favorite fictional character of all time. This video perfectly captures his story, tragedy, and the why factor. A lot of ice king videos really miss the why factor when it comes to his character. I like that you didn't just go over him and his tragedy, but the ones closest to him and how they're impacted by it as well. The contrast explanation of the difference between Marceline & Betty's love for Simon made me happy and invested. Amazing video.
Simon's story I think is the ultimate act of karma for his hubris, when he was still young and naiive. Simon lost everything for the crown. He lost betty. He lost his world. He lost his friends. But despite it all, he still clung to his sanity. He fought the crown tooth and nail for love to the very last moment. He never found Betty, his princess who mattered most to him, but he found something perhaps better. Fatherhood, in marcy. Two freaks who felt they were rejected by their loves. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say Simon loved... Loves Marceline more than anything else in the world. More than himself. More than Betty. He gave into the crown for her. As much as she didn't want him to do it, they simply did not have the choice, it was do or die. And in the end, he did the best thing he could possibly do. Leave before he became a monster he fought so hard to protect Marceline from, and send her father to be a real dad for once in his deadbeat life. Perhaps if he stuck with Marceline, she could have helped shape who the ice king would have been in the end, to be someone a lot less manically obsessed with princesses. But can you blame Simon? As far as he knew, he was going to turn into a destructive monster, not an insane manchild. Regardless, he fought tooth and nail as long and as hard as he could for Marceline before finally becoming the Ice King. And, once he had become the Ice King, Finn, Jake, and Bonnie helped him change. To ultimately resist the childish urges forced upon him by the crown. And to be a better person. The Ice King still remembers Marceline, subconsciously. And still loves her, even. But his addled mind forgot the difference between familial love, and the love between lovers. Perhaps that's why he tried so hard. He genuinely loved her. That's why he tried to kiss her, because deep down, Marceline is still the one he loves most. Just... Not in that way. And it's because of the influence Finn, Jake, and Bonnie had on him that he's able to accept this alternate form of love, and continue to be friends with Marcy. His ultimate reward at the end of this long journey is his life and sanity back. His daughter back. New friends to stick with him. But that's because of Betty's concurrent story, and her consequent eternal punishment, for her inability to accept change. Her inability to recognize the Ice King as his own individual. She got her wish, and the punishment is an eternity... Of loneliness. Karmic punishment is a bitch. You can't have your cake and eat it too. But I think, ultimately, Simon's ending is as happy as it could have been. And it's perfect. What a great show.
Ice king is one of the best depictions of dementia ever made, and it's a kids show. It must have helped quite a few kids understanding and coming to terms with losing grandma or grandpa to dementia.
Hearing people speak of adventure time with the same level of care that I gave it growing up is quite a profound feeling, as I didn't have anyone to share this with in the moment, I'm glad someone else has experienced this great show
Ice King is a perfect encapsulation of having a loved one with dementia, you know inside there somewhere is the person you loved, but they can't remember you. They do little things that you remember, they sometimes have moments of clarity, and sometimes in the worst of ways they can hurt you and they don't even know they're doing it.
The way Ice King is almost always fixated to Princess Bubblegum actually makes sense. PB is very smart, which Ice King/Simon instinctively reminds him of Betty.
Marcy's mom didn't abandon her, she was sick and dying, and didn't want Marcy to see her die, so she sent her away to the bunker so she knew she was safe
Marceline's mother was scared of her daughter, but that wasn't why she left her. She was sick, as you can see in Obsidian. She didn't want Marceline to see her dead.
I think what makes me love both Simon and ice king as characters and what makes them both so tragic is that Simon loses everything in the process of caring for Marceline, but none of it is dignified and that's entirely on purpose. In other media, the tragedy might be that Simon would've gone insane with power and been an intimidating villian who poses a true threat, or that Simon would die protecting Marceline, or he would die trying to find Betty. But none of that happens. Instead, Simon isn't granted death, or ascending to the status of a driven mad, threatening antagonist, on the same level of evil as someone like The Lich. The sadness lies in how deeply humiliating his punishment is. He loses all of his memories, he loses autonomy over his body, he loses basically 3/4 of his personality. He had to leave Marceline because he knew how bad he was going to become, and while I don't really think ice king would've intentionally hurt her, Simon knew he would end up doing it by accident eventually. He's reduced to a pathetic, lonely, highly emotionally unstable old man who no one in Ooo likes (at least by season one). It's horribly cruel because of how demeaning it is. One of the worst parts, at least to me, is that Marceline could do nothing but watch him get worse and worse as the centuries ticked by. In I Remember You, Marceline mentions to ice king "get out of here, I told you not to come around me!" Which makes me think that, even in his most insane moments, ice king vaguely remembers that he knows Marceline, and he keeps trying to find her, over and over again to the point where Marceline couldn't stand to look at him anymore, so she told him not to be around her. I don't know this comment is ridiculously long but that moment always gets me to think about, because it implies that even while driven insane by the crown Simon still wants to make sure Marceline is doing okay.
I see the relationship between Simon/Ice king and Marceline being and allegory for people dealing with their loved ones going through dementia or alzheimers.
OH MY GOD???? I’ve never really watched adventure time. When it first premiered I remember watching a few episodes and then moving onto something else. I didn’t know that the show went this deep! I’m over crying before work watching this
@@TheGoldenAlchemist86 You probably wouldn't have understood it deeply then anyway. I have watched the show through several times, and there is always more to learn! If you like philosophy and psychedelics, then you will enjoy it very much.
@@trollsneedhugs I think it's also important to consider the timing of when they may have watched it, too. It was a lot more "silly kid show" the first season or two, then it started having more cohesive plot and things started getting serious. It worked because you'd kind of grow up with the show at the time if you were already watching, but i that wasn't your thing, it would be easy to discard without watching it further.
Also interesting how in Ice King’s search for a genius princess similar to Betty, when making that amalgamation of the princesses he uses the brains of Turtle Princess (a librarian) and Princess Bubblegum. In the finale, Ice Thing (Gunter) proposes to Turtle Princess. So that’s sorta interesting.
I think this continues to be echoed in Fionna and Cake, I'm really excited to see how it's finale will play out. After giving everything he had, and so much taken from him, he was on the verge of giving up. But after a little rest, he was able to muster up the will to give even more to another girl in need, to give comfort, patience, and love. Honestly, he's such an incredible man. I hope that his tragedy can finally become a happy ending with the ending of Fionna and Cake.
Ice King is a good way to subtly introduce children watching the show to something they may experience in their lives, a parent or grandparent or other loved relative being afflicted with dementia.
i love how even after 5 years of its offical ending we are still talking about Adventure time. 13 years since it premiered and we still have so much to think about and theorize about.
Its awesome you came to the conclusion that simon deaerves to be happy but he himself doesnt realize it because at the end of fiona and cake thats the message he finally gets
As someone whose father has dementia that grows worse and worse with time i am very much Marceline in this situation, i see the man i looked up to and respected ramble on repeatedly, sometimes incoherently and sometimes not even recognaizing me i still love him, i still try to look after him in my own way even if he needed to be put somewhere else for proper care. Simon/Ice King whether they intended to or not became someone very relatable for those dealing with a loved one who is losing their fight with dementia and or alzheimers. Once again eloquently put video, you truly are of deep intellect and empathy.
it was at this point in the video 6:10 that I realized I really understood how she felt, maybe it was not fully the same but before my granny passed away this April, she had dementia and it reminded me a lot of how the Ice King acts and the difference between him and Simon, and I myself was in Marcy's place caring for her and protecting her making her meals and I did have to come to a point where I realized my granny was no longer the person I knew her as and it is a painful thing, and you explained that beautifully here thank you
Shedding light on the fact that Simon's golden heart shone through even the cold magic of the crown, enough so that even his misguided and delusional expressions of love for Gunter resulted in them feeling cared enough for to wish to be like Ice King at the end of the series adds a whole new dimension to the Ice King side of the character. It really shows what Marcy sees as worth holding onto even as Ice King is lost in madness, and what Betty was unable to see or accept as her former beloved. I like to think Ice King still lives on in the back of Simon's mind in much the same way Simon once did for those hundreds of years, as we see him visiting a freezer playing with some ice exclaiming "What? This is how I cope!" I love this character, and this show so dearly.
There’s no reason for this to be so sad. I’ve been sobbing over Marcelina and Simon and Betty for like thirty minutes. Needless to say they’re my favorite characters.
i love the story of the crown as well. the original wish was forged in a deeply lonely and abused child wishing to be something his mentor and father figure could be proud of. i believe it’s because of that child that those who wear the crown often find themselves in a role of a caretaker, but aggressively so; leading the bearers to often kidnap or stalk people they feel affection towards. also the echoes of the gunthers. the first who wished to emulate his mentor because he wanted to be loved, and the final who wished to emulate the ice king because he was already loved
But also proving that sacrifice that he made for her safety instilled good behavior and what saved the world and prevention of other characters getting the crown for less noble purposes.
Marceline’s mom didn’t abandon her, she sent Marcy to the “party” and left her a message that Marceline didn’t hear until over a thousand years later. The message was Marcy’s mom telling her that she was sick and she didn’t want Marceline to watch her die and she apologized for tricking her
im not the type of person to comment underneath but I thought this video was perfect for me to share a story about my brother. When I first saw that episode of marceline and ice king it drew my attention a lot when I saw how desperate marceline was to bringing simon back and how frustrating his responses to them was. I've known this story for a long time and understood its tragedy and how I compared it to my brother but something about this video definitely gave me a new perspective to this issue which is what drove me to want to share a personal story on the internet. My brother started using drugs in his very early teens, starting with cigarettes and weed to getting much stronger addictions and harder drugs. he was a normal sane person with a personality and humor and had friends and girlfriends and hobbies and aspirations, living a young teenage life making some wrong decisions every now and then but then getting worse as his addictions took hold of his morality, at some point he had a girlfriend who did crystal meth this is when his addiction took a turn for the worse. He drove all his friendships away and all his desires to just pure anger and silence with the (leave me alone face) disconnecting from everything and everyone he has been sober for 8 years now but his mind is completely lost. He isn't the same person he was before, and after many years I've understood that he will never go back the same anymore.After a long period of not seeing him for years and now finally living under the same roof again. Really living with him for the first time I have started grieving him. The person he once was, when we used to play video games as kids or when he'd bring me candy for no reason or when he'd steal literal game chips from game stop for me to play on my 3ds. his anger and afflictions drove our connection away for such a long time but now he's just a child. My brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia bipolar disorder and PTSD at 21 and diagnosed with an intellectual disability at 26 years old he has the intelligence of a 4 year old but the anger of a grown man. but now he is alone, all the friends he once had, the highschool popularity, his ex girlfriends, all long gone. He is a gravely difficult person to deal with and I've had a lot of hate towards him for so long but I've learned to live with his disability and help him the best I can. i no longer hold resentment or take his insults personally because he is a lost and hurt person who is stuck inside his mind. but since I've finally cried for the old him I've been trying to find him again I've tried bargaining with him, showing him cartoons he used to like or music, he hasn't abandoned his desires completely but finds it very difficult to go deep into something like he used to, rejecting my attempt at bringing him back. as did marceline with ice king showing him all the moments they shared together and the letters he wrote to her "begging him to remember searching for the man that saved her she sings the lyrics to his song eyes closed in tears singing a song that means so much for her. It almost looked like this was the moment she accepted that simon wasn't coming back but she also accepted that though he wasn't coming back she was grateful for it all and by simon and marcy she was going to protect and take care of ice king for the man that he once was and for this new version of him" I loved this dialogue from this video because its true that as much as you try to bring back a person that has been gone for years it can never work but you can learn to love that person again. not only is this video amazing for its analysis but the way that this story is perceived and how "simon coming back" isn't a happy ending. Ice king is his own entity and it shows by his subconscious attraction to marceline finding her wherever she goes and hanging around. I think its a beautiful story off loss, hurt and reconnection even if it isn't the way it used to be.
what did you think of the finale for Ice King?
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It was aiight
Ice and Vampires
Imagine Sylvanas from Warcraft coming into the Adventure Time world and ripping Ice King's crown in half. Like she did in the Shadowlands trailer.
Great video u should do doc hudson from cars
I wanted to say I love love love your videos I havent read the Attack on Titan Manga so I won't be able to watch your videos on it But I absolutely can't wait to watch them @Sage's Rain
If I remember correctly, this entire backstory was written because the crew made a joke where there was a video of Ice King singing the fries song, and then they realized they needed to explain how he knew the song
And I love that all this came from that joke
It was certainly one of the best decisions the show ever made.
It’s beautiful how the creative process moves
Well, if you factor in the fact that the episode that the clip in question appeared in, Holly Jolly Secrets, also gave us the first preview of Simon Petrikov before he put on the crown and his descent into madness.... It's kinda poetic.
They could’ve done a dumb short episode of nothingness with this idea, but they really went all out with this story. Just like they always do with their background and side characters.
I need some help. So I watch adventure time on hulu and I keep seeing extra bits is there like other episodes on other channels or something or is it like ATLA where they made spinoff versions. On my tv there is no info about Marcys mom other than the VHS tape with BMO and when she was singing it flashbacks to when she was younger.
It's actually sadder when you realize that whenever Ice king saw Betty he would always call her beautiful lady
oh fuck
or how he’s share searching for a princess, his princess betty
When betty showed, I realized that she's HIS princess he was looking for even under his insanity. ANd yes, its sadder when he called her beautiful lady, not recognizing her at all :(
Like Dementia it's devastating
I think in the episode where we see the Ice King's backstory, he calls Betty his princess, which might explain his obsession with princesses...
Simon had been on a downward spiral losing any sanity he had left and he still devoted himself to watch over and ensure Marceline’s safety. How he went from a seemingly senile old goofball to one of the most tragic and heartbreaking lives of anyone in the world really highlights Adventure Time’s brilliant world building.
If I remember correctly his sanity only slipped further when he wore the crown. So basically if he didn't put it on anymore he would still be sane. He willingly sacrificed his sanity for her
@@Lenin941FN The fact that he managed to fight off the voice of the crown pulling him to wear it for so long in order to protect her and only seemingly accepts it when it will help her live is also very telling.
pointing spiderman moment
If only this could said for art. Looks like it was drawn by 5 year old. Skilless.
@@McDinglefart_69 You act like a 5 year old. A 5 year old with no artistic skills is the kind of person who thinks the art is bad because it's simplified.
Ice King's story reminds me of losing someone to dementia. The gradual, inevitable stripping away of who they were and the horror of knowing that there's nothing you can do to stop it. His story makes me cry every time.
I was thinking the same thing
Same here, almost cried watching this video
Too true
Pretty sure his story was intended to be so, as the parallels to caring for someone with such a degenerating mental state hit too close to the mark to be unintentional. There is so much more emotional depth to AT than your average viewer ever expects!
Me after reading this: What, that's outrageous!
* ONE REWATCHING OF AVENTURE TIME LATER *
Me: *holy shi-*
I like the idea of Marceline accepting Simon and Betty not being able to. The main difference is that Betty had no time to grieve and accept that Simon is gone but Marci had that time and at some point, she starts accepting him for what he is. While the Ice King and Simon do share personalities I don't think they are the same person though. It seems that the Ice King has his own personality with his own desires but is often corrupted by the magic of the crown.
"Gunter who thought you how to fly?."
- Ice King
Ello again
I think that the connection he made to wandavision is important, grief is love perceviering, we can also look at the connection between simon and vision's multiple versions on the show, resurected vision and white vision both have the same amount of humanity as original vision and deserve the same amount of love and appreciation, are capable of the same love and heroism and ultimatly are the same though so completely differant, just like ice king and simon, simon being the original hanity that was sacrificed for the creation of ice king, no matter what happens he is not truly himself and at the same time there is a new person, an ice king who can't be dismissed as a mere problem vecause he does deserve respect. Marcy sees this and is sad and grows to appreciate ice king and treat him with the respect he deserves as well as with the love she has for simon, betty is hurt again and again by the crown and its understandable why she feels the way she does, its also partly a writing thing, the creators made a decision that simon himself will return to live and therefore giving betty what she wanted, but they wanted to stress how this mindset of only accepting ur view of a person and veing rewarded for ir is not the best so they decided to not give it to her and go with the self sacrifice bit. This goes well for mental health stuff and junk and also the ice king persona being a seperate thing in the crown gems made this easy like the video shows. Anyway i should go to sleep amd stop redditing on youtube.
i think it's cuz multiple people wore it before simon so their personality mix and match to create an entirely new being. take fin from the regular world, he's radically different from the ice king we know.
@@larrytherustyboii7442 Yeah, Finn from Regular World seems to be closer to baseline Finn than IK from the show.
I'm just sitting back in my chair with my arms crossed, slowly realizing that perhaps Ice King is one of the most well-developed characters in cartoon history.
You sit too much
@@fusiontoa18 wow, lol
Smart chair
Me too.
@@fusiontoa18 *not enough
Remember when we hated Ice King in the beginning of the series and we later grew to love him later on? Especially when he rescued Marceline.
He was a character I never thought I'd enjoy. But turned out to be one of my favorites
Interesting, I've never gotten into Adventure Time but, this seems intriguing.
I never really hated Ice King which made his backstory hit so much harder when we finally found out.
I always thought he was funny.
I think the distinction should be made between the Ice King and Simon Petrikov. Ice King is the delirious lunatic who's always being a creep. Simon is the downright noble hero who let himself be consumed by that creep to protect an innocent child when she needed him and spent the next millennium fighting like hell to break free.
One of the most painful moments during Come Along with Me was seeing Simon attempting to wish for Betty back from Prismo during the ending montage, only for him to end up with nothing but the same failed wish Magic Man got when attempting to wish for his wife back from Golb. It makes me wonder how much of his life did he dedicate to trying and failing to bring Betty back once again even after the finale.
hey odyssey central
It is implied that Simon is immortal due to the wish which is even more crazy. Imagine at the end of the universe, he sees Golb Betty again
it's so sad :( but Betty is a strong woman. I believe they'll find each other again.
If ever time allows and accepts, I shall hope they can be together again
Adventure Time had many tragic stories, left that way and gave it all that way, it's granted but not truly all happily forever after..
Well in Adventure Time: Distant Lands, you actually get to see Simon dancing with a new woman implying that he's learning to move on
Almost feels like Ice King and Marcelines relationship is an allegory for people both suffering and coming into acceptance of the effects of Alzheimers :(
so many people have seen the connection that I'm halfway convinced it was intentional.
@@abigails4088 I think dementia was definitely an inspiration at least
Well yes
Adventure Time is full of tragedies:
1. Ice King, a respected scientist cursed by a magical crown turned crazy forever longing for his "princess"(Betty).
2. Marceline. Left alone as a child all alone while losing Simon, her only friend at the time.
3. Finn, the last surviving human(or so we thought) who despite his happy personality is actually deep down disturbed and lonely about being the only human left.
4. The Land of Ooo. Bears the scars of a massive war that resulted in the deaths of millions. The bones of the dead, broken buildings, and many wreckage are still visible to this day.
All of these tragedies are masked by fun, happy adventures but look closely and in each episode you can always see the scars of a dark, sad past.
You also didn’t really go in depth on many of the tragedies. For example, Marceline and her mother managed to stay alive through the mushroom war but the mom started dying and Marcy thought her own mother left her, and then after Simon left, she ended up in the care of her extremely evil father and then she became a vampire and lost all of her human friends
It's coincidentally a metaphor for depression and PTSD.
(For people who don’t know, probably) The Great Mushroom war, when the Cold War turned into a hot war. Near nuclear annihilation of the human species. Billions dead… only thousands left. Ww3 in short.
"Does Marceline not deserve to have her real father back?"
I am crying.
Maybe he doesn't deserve her 😔
@@sir2657what do you mean?
@@anonymouslucario285I think they thought they were talking about her biological father
Even in the final episode of adventure time when he regained his sanity he still lost everything.
He at least still had his daughter figure.
It’s equal exchange, he probably realised that he couldn’t have everything and we can see him contently living in the series after the main one ends
Technically he didn't lose everything cause he had said prior that the crown left his consciousness as simon in a dream like state so he was friends with Finn and Jake and that is proven in Distant Lands when he says he went to get help and pulls up with Adult Finn. He didn't have Betty and his old life from before the crown but he at least knew who was around him.
@@ilovepepperpizza3152this comment didn’t age well (watch the new fionna and cake series hehe)
I could have sworn the reason Marcelines mother left was to save her the pain of watching her slowly fade from illness. It wasn't the _best_ reason but i was sure that was what happened
that is the reason, marceline learns that when she gets older
Actually the scene od Marceline realising this is in distand lands obsidian so you should watch
Oh, man. Marcy's mother disappeared because she didn't want her daughter to watch her fade away... but Marcy wound up facing that slow loss anyway due to Simon. How tragic.
The thoughtful way you narrate the destruction of Marceline’s connection to Simon was very moving. Great voice too
and the part from distant lands obsidian where marceline hears the voice message from her mom years later. that part is absolutely saddening.
2:55 Even Finn lost his mind instantly, while it took Simon years to lose his
Edit: Although, it might be because farmworld Finn didn’t have the same experiences as the main Finn. Finn at the end of the series, or even after the Hall of Egress, would probably have taken a longer time.
Probably the victims who fall to it too quickly is probably people whi have the mentality of a child. Gunther the lizard was a child, finn was child. Whilst others were able to hold it off for a few moments. Simon held it off for YEARS. His will was strong before it eventually shattered.
also we do not know how different the crown is in the farmworld universe
@@franciscoOrellana29 there's no difference because the point of change was the creation of the lich, which was born long after the crown was corrupted by gunthers wish.
Yes , i remember Gunther mentioning that sven (?) The Scandinavian boy inside the crown just used once it , so either he died or went completely insane with it.
My theory is maybe it's age, maturity and their situations. Ice King being a well matured scientist, he probably mentally fought off the mental altering powers of the crown as long as he did because he knew and understood of his responsibilities and loved ones. Plus, he had a better way of dealing with when he needed the crown over time, like when in danger or for mobility. It took Finn over quickly because he was young and couldn't grasp too much but what was happening at the moment or what the future was going to be like for it. Like it was a chaotic scene prior to him wearing the crown, so it quickly went to work on his brain.
I remember as a kid I hated the Ice King and his princess schemes but as I got older I grew to adore him so much for his will to sacrifice himself for those he cares about
I didn't understand how people could hate him(minus the characters in the show) that guy was a riot 😂😂😂
@@digimonalvatrax2738 back then before people knew who ice king actually was. We always saw him ad that bad guy who tries to kidnap a princess all the time. But when we start learning who Simon is. We grow to understand and love him.
@@zcgamerandreacts2762 yeah he was a creep at the beginning
@@digimonalvatrax2738 so why does he kidnap princesses?
@@stonalisa3729 because he subconsciously trying to find his wife
I'm glad that Simon monitored and recorded himself as he slowly lost sanity.
Ice King is one of the most complicated and tragic characters of any cartoon, i think. He’s harmless (for the most part) and doesn’t have a full grasp on what’s morally correct; he doesn’t understand why some things are wrong.
And, the funny thing is, he’s never really seen Finn or Jake as enemies, probably not even frenemies. In most of his actions, he means well, and oftentimes feels like a failure when things go wrong
An episode that’s been playing on in my mind writing this is when he dropped snow over the Candy Kingdom. In that act, his intentions were pure, but had unexpected, abhorrent consequences.
Honestly, i think no other VA than Tom Kenny could have ever nailed this role so perfectly
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Going off of what you said about Simon calling Marcy “darling” and other kind names, it parallels how Hunson Abadeer calls her his “little monster”. It’s a small but interesting detail since it shows how differently both men see Marcy. Simon sees her as an innocent child and recognizes her human-side, while Hunson sees her as a product of his own that he values for her demon-side.
Ice King was such an unexpectedly deep character, I loved it
The most beautiful moment in the show for me is in "Don't Look". When Finn looks at Ice King with the jewel eyes, he doesn't see Ice King, he sees Simon
I had it on while I was watching this video and that very episode was playing when I read this lol
Marceline's relationship with Ice King is like a child to a parent with Alzeimer's disease where they have to step up to take care of their parent - they don't even remember their child but the child takes care of them regardless out of love of how they took care of them when they were younger.
Simón’s fate was definitely worse than death and I am glad he got a somewhat happy ending
But if you think about it he really didn't get the ending he deserved, Betty is no longer in his life, he is now mortal, and marceline has to live with losing him again
@@timesphere5199 if he was mortal wouldn't he die from old age immediately? Also he doesn't show any symptoms of aging in distant lands, despite Finn looking a lot older.
@@Ivan8 he wouldn't age rapidly because he was reverted in golb and I just assumed the distant lands was a continuity error
@@timesphere5199 I’d rather be mortal than live a life as pathetic as his forever
@@clownworld4655 I mean true but imagine what marceline has to go through again, not to mention that his main goal from the beginning was to be with Betty and now he is forced to die without her. He also has lasting ptsd from everything. I can't imagine his life being that much better than before
“Oh please forgive me for whatever I do, when I don’t remember you…”
0:30 she didn’t leave her daughter behind. She was on the edge of death and didn’t want her daughter to see it. So she sent Marcy to what was a safe-room (that was abandoned) where she believed somebody was still alive to look after her daughter. And that’s far more tragic.
I’m so glad we learned her mom didn’t just up and ditch her out of fear it was because she was dying (most likely of radiation poisoning) and didn’t want Marceline to see her die
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I never thought the show about a kid and his magical dog would have one of the saddest characters in cartoons
I always loved the idea that ice kings character was always supposed to represent people with Alzheimer’s or dementia. I think your video compliments that perfectly
its so sad that he keeps looking for marceline but doesnt understand why. its also sad time with simon being completly confused and lost and doesnt really understand why betty wants to have him. and at the same time betty is going mad from th emagic and begins to obsess over getting simon back
"I Remember You" helped me cope with my father's death by Alzeheimers when it first aired
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Considering he looks the same in Obsidian despite Finn having grown into an adult, I think it's safe to say that Simon kept the eternal life despite being freed from the crown.
He is mortal.
the finale included Betty wishing for Simon to be SAFE (as in safe from death as well)
This character, This character is why I love adventure time. When I think of adventure time I think of Simon or ice King, his story truly makes you sympathize with him and the people around him. I loved that episode with Marcaline and him, it makes you feel the pain and anger of Marcaline and makes you feel absolutely horrible for Simon.
I know Simon's story is good because every time think of it I still feel the same emotions of sadness that I felt the first time I watched it.
that mental image of her, floating...eyes closed and trying her damnedest not to break down in tears as she keeps playing... It's seared into my mind.
yeah, for the first year or so I gave the show flak for visuals and whatnot and never watched it...
I really have a bad habit of judging entertaining books by their cover art >.>
I REMEMBER YOU was actually one of the first episodes of Adventure Time I saw... I knew just enough to get the idea of who IK and Marcy were in-universe...
This magic keeps me alive but it's making me crazy. And I need to save u but whose gonna save me
I knew Adventure Time was something special when they started showing us Simon’s backstory. That episode with the VHS tapes changed the way I watched AT forever
I'd given the show flak before... but I REMEMBER YOU was among the first episodes I actually saw, I had just enough understanding to know who IK and Marceline were in-universe...and then bam, tragically well written backstory.
in horror movies there's this term called "body horror", that exemplifies our concept about what is "looking human" and the distorcion of our bodies in an almost philosofical way
but lately there's this term called "soul horror" that is very common in animation medias, exploring the what is "feeling human" and this feeling (not gut punching but heart punching) about the distorcion of our minds, like madness, etc
simon and the ice king always makes me feel that way
"This is not a happy ending. Hes not happy"
This quote is really interesting to hear now that we have Fiona and Cake
My assumption was it took centuries for Marceline to grow even to a teenager. Therefore the Ice King took centuries to take over Simon.
I assume this from the growth of princess bubblegum as random litter into a sentient being. The growth around the devastated cities and the fact that she still isn’t quite a fully grown adult even at the end of the series. Bubblegum even started over in some sense as a child even though it didn’t last long she is essentially rejuvenated.
All of Finns past lives seem to have occurred from the moment of the war to now.
Which has always lead me to believe Simons descent into madness was over the course of possibly a millennia.
marceline grew to the age she is now in normal time, she aged like a normal person up until she became a vampire and got stuck at the age she is in the show. it also didn't take long for the crown to take over simon, i'd say probs a decade or two, judging by how he went from normal simon (mentally speaking) when he first found her to being half simon half ice king by the time he left her. he was already halfway gone at that point, judging by how he went from being sweet to her as simon to doing/saying ice king things back and forth. and he was even further gone but not completely by the time marceline had become a vampire, based on what the empress said about him. and i think it's implied finn's past lives go back to way before the war, just based on that pink sentient primordial blob he was in the past but idk for sure, and the blue catalyst comet was before the war too i believe. I just finished rewatching so it's fairly fresh in my brain, but i could be wrong on some things idk lol didn't think this was going to be a whole paragraph, sorry about that
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I vividly remember this was the first time I cried when watching a cartoon. I just had it on while doing something else I think and then I stopped what I was doing when I heard them singing I remember you. Shit was so sad.
I'd say several decades, maybe, but not centuries.
It almost feels like this story of Marceline and Betty attempting to help the Ice King is a parallel to dementia.
I think one of the interesting things about the tear scene is we see throughout the show that Marceline won't let people get too close.
But especially that she gets angry and won't admit to being hurt.
Putting on a hard scary shell instead.
This is likely because when she showed the smallest amount of pain the closest thing she had to a dad ran away in fear of hurting her.
So she pretty much turned her while personality into "Look at me no one can hurt me"
I remember someone making a theory about Ice King having dementia which is a little bit funny, sad and unsettling at the same time...
Yikes... 💀
And realizing that Princess Bubblegum reminds him of Betty probably explains why he kidnap Bubblegum more often.
I think what really strikes me when it comes to Simon is how he much he never really gives up. Despite being trapped within his own mind and unable to be his true self he still tried to find a princess, HIS princess. And now he will continue to search for her even if it seems pretty much impossible.
I absolutely adore Ice King. He became my single favorite character over the series because of the amount of growth he went through without ever fundamentally changing as a person, and showing that even though people might act differently and in ways that we consider weird, it doesn't mean they're bad people. And they can be a part of our world without being ostracize if you're willing to meet them halfway and ease them into understanding how to behave, even if they don't fully understand it. I feel like the unrequited loyalty he felt towards Finn for most of the series shows this best, even though it always caused trouble, it was rarely done out of malice towards them after the early seasons
I feel like this could be a metaphor for losing people to addiction. Throughout the video i couldn’t help but think this is what people who love addicts feel.
adventure time is funny because as kids we love it for the cartoons and entertainment, as adults we look back and it’s like, there’s *so much* more in this cartoon. It sounds silly but the more you see it the more you see
This makes more sense to me than the dementia allegory. There is no stopping dementia once it starts for example.
@@stobie9063 I never thought about this, but you're right. Especially since the crown "whispers" to Simon in order to lure him back in.
one thing that I occasionally think about is how determined Simon must have been to be able to track down Marceline's dad and somehow convinced him to come back. I mean, her dad's a demon for crying out loud. it can't be as easy as picking up the phone.
And now it gets more complicated because of the recent release episode of Fionna and Cake not only that Simon lost his one true princess he also feels like he doesn't fit in with his friends anymore
This episode never fails to make me sob. He truly loves her like his own. And then lost every part of him that made him Simon. Ripped away from the last person who loved him to protect her. If you don't truly understand loss you just won't get it.
Honestly; seeing that this video was about Ice King made me click the video. The tears I'm crying are because of how I can relate to his plight highly. You always do amazing videos that are thought provoking as well as tearjerking. Thank you for being the badass author you've been being
I always loved how Marcy respected Ice King and treated him like a person despite everyone else dismissing him as a crazy old man.
One time, my sisters and I used almost $20 on a crane game just to win a tiny plush Ice King because he's the only character our dad liked. Now, he takes Ice King with him for every trip. He always sends a picture of Ice King.
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Awe that’s so cute ☺️
My favorite example of character development of this show is when Finn starts to call the Ice King "Simon", and treats him more like an old aquaintance and even an ally, where as he treated him with nothing but disgust and ridicule in the early seasons. Not only is it an example of how the others characters (besides Marceline and Betty) start to accept him, and see beyond that cold shell, it also shows how much Finn has matured over the years, relying more on diplomacy and compassion, rather than brute force. That's what true heroes do.
"Have you heard of the Tragedy of the Ice King?" -Sage's Rain
" have you ever heard of the poem of the great guru sage rain" - zaheer
"It's not a story the casual viewers would tell you."
Finding out why Ice King is crazy was already heart wrenching, finding out why he's got an obsession with princesses was just another wrench thrown at me.
God didn't realize what Marceline's mother actually did. I haven't watched Adventure Time or those longer episodes on HBO in a long while so I always thought Marceline's mom scared her so she would go somewhere safe. Jesus the show is good.
Well, it was more that she didn't want Marcy to watch her die, as she knew she was going to die and didn't want Marcy to deal with that.
Marceline didn't know that, though, until many years later, so she thought her mom abandoned her.
This video was more talking about Marceline perspective on what happened.
I'm really happy that they made Simon a fully fleshed out character opposed to a minor inconvenience of an antagonist as Ice King.
And we get so much more Simon in the Fionna and Cake show
4 years into my marriage my husband began suffering from increasingly intense mental illness. It should be noted how little help exists for situations like ours. Going missing, in and out of jail (he had never been in trouble before this), before long I no longer recognized him. I would try to make him remember, try to 'bring him back' and ended up frustrated and angry. It's really funny when i tell people the thing that changed my approach to dealing with this was a childrens cartoon.We are still together now for 8 years. He has been the ice king now for as long as he was Simon to me.I have grieved one man and learned to love the other. In a time where i felt, so SO alone (family and friends just get tired. Its understandable) Adventure Time was a beacon of light in a very, very dark time for me. I felt seen and gently guided. Love is sacrifice. It's incredible that you chose to include that Wanda Vision quote, just one more synchronicity.
BETTY IS NOT SELFISH. She knows what Simon wants which is why she did it, she sacrificed herself. This is still makes me cry.
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SPOILER
Now, we know, thanks to Fiona & Cake, that she was obsessed and would do anything, anything, for him
That is not love, it is obsession, as she herself shows; more than once she abandoned herself for Simón, at the bus stop, when she goes into the portal to the future with Simón, sacrificing herself, becoming GolBetty; even in the end, as a divine entity that she is now, she continues to protect Simon, not letting him put on the crown again
@@Nikole.Segura.CLove is complicated. She did love him. She is also obsessed with him. 2 things can be true at the same time.
I still love that throughout Adventure Time, we see Ice King slowly become more and more prominent. He’s not just some funny old man with ice powers who’s obsessed with princesses anymore. He’s a lot more fleshed out, given more attention and care, and even becomes associated with Marceline.
The episode where him and Marcy were singing the letters really did break my heart. Marcy begging Simon to remember, and he’s just not. It’s heart breaking.
I always felt that Simon's story was an allegory for the progression of Alzheimer's disease
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I always felt bad for ice king even in the first seasons when he was a maniacal princess kidnapper. It make me understand that all he wanted was love and before the crown thing, he just was a normal man, who was loved. As the series have continued, I don't know why but, I've hated Finn and Jake a bit for not understanding Simon's tragedy earlier and they watched his past tapes, continuing to beat the crap out of him. Such a poor poor man.
Ice King is my favorite fictional character of all time. This video perfectly captures his story, tragedy, and the why factor. A lot of ice king videos really miss the why factor when it comes to his character. I like that you didn't just go over him and his tragedy, but the ones closest to him and how they're impacted by it as well. The contrast explanation of the difference between Marceline & Betty's love for Simon made me happy and invested. Amazing video.
Simon's story I think is the ultimate act of karma for his hubris, when he was still young and naiive. Simon lost everything for the crown. He lost betty. He lost his world. He lost his friends. But despite it all, he still clung to his sanity. He fought the crown tooth and nail for love to the very last moment. He never found Betty, his princess who mattered most to him, but he found something perhaps better. Fatherhood, in marcy. Two freaks who felt they were rejected by their loves. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say Simon loved... Loves Marceline more than anything else in the world. More than himself. More than Betty. He gave into the crown for her. As much as she didn't want him to do it, they simply did not have the choice, it was do or die. And in the end, he did the best thing he could possibly do. Leave before he became a monster he fought so hard to protect Marceline from, and send her father to be a real dad for once in his deadbeat life. Perhaps if he stuck with Marceline, she could have helped shape who the ice king would have been in the end, to be someone a lot less manically obsessed with princesses. But can you blame Simon? As far as he knew, he was going to turn into a destructive monster, not an insane manchild. Regardless, he fought tooth and nail as long and as hard as he could for Marceline before finally becoming the Ice King. And, once he had become the Ice King, Finn, Jake, and Bonnie helped him change. To ultimately resist the childish urges forced upon him by the crown. And to be a better person. The Ice King still remembers Marceline, subconsciously. And still loves her, even. But his addled mind forgot the difference between familial love, and the love between lovers. Perhaps that's why he tried so hard. He genuinely loved her. That's why he tried to kiss her, because deep down, Marceline is still the one he loves most. Just... Not in that way. And it's because of the influence Finn, Jake, and Bonnie had on him that he's able to accept this alternate form of love, and continue to be friends with Marcy. His ultimate reward at the end of this long journey is his life and sanity back. His daughter back. New friends to stick with him. But that's because of Betty's concurrent story, and her consequent eternal punishment, for her inability to accept change. Her inability to recognize the Ice King as his own individual. She got her wish, and the punishment is an eternity... Of loneliness. Karmic punishment is a bitch. You can't have your cake and eat it too. But I think, ultimately, Simon's ending is as happy as it could have been. And it's perfect. What a great show.
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Also the fact of Simon had always called Betty his beautiful princess might be the reason why as he went crazy he had a princess obsession
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Ice king is one of the best depictions of dementia ever made, and it's a kids show. It must have helped quite a few kids understanding and coming to terms with losing grandma or grandpa to dementia.
I’ve never seen this show, but I like how you talk about pop culture art
thank you :)
Hearing people speak of adventure time with the same level of care that I gave it growing up is quite a profound feeling, as I didn't have anyone to share this with in the moment, I'm glad someone else has experienced this great show
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Love how Adventure time took such a simple trope as princess kidnapping and turns it into a beautiful deep story
Ice King is a perfect encapsulation of having a loved one with dementia, you know inside there somewhere is the person you loved, but they can't remember you. They do little things that you remember, they sometimes have moments of clarity, and sometimes in the worst of ways they can hurt you and they don't even know they're doing it.
The way Ice King is almost always fixated to Princess Bubblegum actually makes sense. PB is very smart, which Ice King/Simon instinctively reminds him of Betty.
Simon and Betty's relationship is the most tragic thing I've ever seen. It breaks my heart
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Marcy's mom didn't abandon her, she was sick and dying, and didn't want Marcy to see her die, so she sent her away to the bunker so she knew she was safe
Marceline's mother was scared of her daughter, but that wasn't why she left her. She was sick, as you can see in Obsidian. She didn't want Marceline to see her dead.
I think what makes me love both Simon and ice king as characters and what makes them both so tragic is that Simon loses everything in the process of caring for Marceline, but none of it is dignified and that's entirely on purpose. In other media, the tragedy might be that Simon would've gone insane with power and been an intimidating villian who poses a true threat, or that Simon would die protecting Marceline, or he would die trying to find Betty.
But none of that happens. Instead, Simon isn't granted death, or ascending to the status of a driven mad, threatening antagonist, on the same level of evil as someone like The Lich. The sadness lies in how deeply humiliating his punishment is. He loses all of his memories, he loses autonomy over his body, he loses basically 3/4 of his personality. He had to leave Marceline because he knew how bad he was going to become, and while I don't really think ice king would've intentionally hurt her, Simon knew he would end up doing it by accident eventually. He's reduced to a pathetic, lonely, highly emotionally unstable old man who no one in Ooo likes (at least by season one). It's horribly cruel because of how demeaning it is.
One of the worst parts, at least to me, is that Marceline could do nothing but watch him get worse and worse as the centuries ticked by. In I Remember You, Marceline mentions to ice king "get out of here, I told you not to come around me!" Which makes me think that, even in his most insane moments, ice king vaguely remembers that he knows Marceline, and he keeps trying to find her, over and over again to the point where Marceline couldn't stand to look at him anymore, so she told him not to be around her. I don't know this comment is ridiculously long but that moment always gets me to think about, because it implies that even while driven insane by the crown Simon still wants to make sure Marceline is doing okay.
I see the relationship between Simon/Ice king and Marceline being and allegory for people dealing with their loved ones going through dementia or alzheimers.
OH MY GOD???? I’ve never really watched adventure time. When it first premiered I remember watching a few episodes and then moving onto something else. I didn’t know that the show went this deep! I’m over crying before work watching this
The show is actually super deep and it can easily fill years with enjoyment.
@@trollsneedhugs yeah I’m gonna have to do a watch through cause I truly missed out in my formative years!!!
@@TheGoldenAlchemist86 You probably wouldn't have understood it deeply then anyway. I have watched the show through several times, and there is always more to learn! If you like philosophy and psychedelics, then you will enjoy it very much.
@@trollsneedhugs I think it's also important to consider the timing of when they may have watched it, too. It was a lot more "silly kid show" the first season or two, then it started having more cohesive plot and things started getting serious. It worked because you'd kind of grow up with the show at the time if you were already watching, but i that wasn't your thing, it would be easy to discard without watching it further.
@@TheGoldenAlchemist86have you watched it? How has it been?
Also interesting how in Ice King’s search for a genius princess similar to Betty, when making that amalgamation of the princesses he uses the brains of Turtle Princess (a librarian) and Princess Bubblegum. In the finale, Ice Thing (Gunter) proposes to Turtle Princess. So that’s sorta interesting.
I just finished rewatching Adventure Time, so the timing on this is impeccable.
I think this continues to be echoed in Fionna and Cake, I'm really excited to see how it's finale will play out. After giving everything he had, and so much taken from him, he was on the verge of giving up. But after a little rest, he was able to muster up the will to give even more to another girl in need, to give comfort, patience, and love. Honestly, he's such an incredible man. I hope that his tragedy can finally become a happy ending with the ending of Fionna and Cake.
The fact that you made an Adventure Time video in 2022 is worthy of my subscription on its own
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He's a well written character that i appreciate that i didn't expect.
Ice King is a good way to subtly introduce children watching the show to something they may experience in their lives, a parent or grandparent or other loved relative being afflicted with dementia.
Simons love for marceline and their unique bond is one of the best and one mu favorites
i love how even after 5 years of its offical ending we are still talking about Adventure time. 13 years since it premiered and we still have so much to think about and theorize about.
Its awesome you came to the conclusion that simon deaerves to be happy but he himself doesnt realize it because at the end of fiona and cake thats the message he finally gets
As someone whose father has dementia that grows worse and worse with time i am very much Marceline in this situation, i see the man i looked up to and respected ramble on repeatedly, sometimes incoherently and sometimes not even recognaizing me i still love him, i still try to look after him in my own way even if he needed to be put somewhere else for proper care.
Simon/Ice King whether they intended to or not became someone very relatable for those dealing with a loved one who is losing their fight with dementia and or alzheimers.
Once again eloquently put video, you truly are of deep intellect and empathy.
9:10 gotta love the subtle start of "everything stays"
ice king story really hits different today
it was at this point in the video 6:10 that I realized I really understood how she felt, maybe it was not fully the same but before my granny passed away this April, she had dementia and it reminded me a lot of how the Ice King acts and the difference between him and Simon, and I myself was in Marcy's place caring for her and protecting her making her meals and I did have to come to a point where I realized my granny was no longer the person I knew her as and it is a painful thing, and you explained that beautifully here thank you
When at first we thought Ice King was a funny idiotic character but that plot twist of his past and his challenge in life was spechless.
Shedding light on the fact that Simon's golden heart shone through even the cold magic of the crown, enough so that even his misguided and delusional expressions of love for Gunter resulted in them feeling cared enough for to wish to be like Ice King at the end of the series adds a whole new dimension to the Ice King side of the character. It really shows what Marcy sees as worth holding onto even as Ice King is lost in madness, and what Betty was unable to see or accept as her former beloved. I like to think Ice King still lives on in the back of Simon's mind in much the same way Simon once did for those hundreds of years, as we see him visiting a freezer playing with some ice exclaiming "What? This is how I cope!" I love this character, and this show so dearly.
There’s no reason for this to be so sad. I’ve been sobbing over Marcelina and Simon and Betty for like thirty minutes. Needless to say they’re my favorite characters.
i love the story of the crown as well.
the original wish was forged in a deeply lonely and abused child wishing to be something his mentor and father figure could be proud of.
i believe it’s because of that child that those who wear the crown often find themselves in a role of a caretaker, but aggressively so; leading the bearers to often kidnap or stalk people they feel affection towards.
also the echoes of the gunthers. the first who wished to emulate his mentor because he wanted to be loved, and the final who wished to emulate the ice king because he was already loved
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Wow
this hits different after the fionna and cake finale.
Oooooh i love the ending, the shrug and "love is complicated" said as if there's another sentance afterwords, its so simple and so succinct
No matter what year, Adventure Time is always relevant.
I’m happy that Fiona and Cake gave some closure for simon
But also proving that sacrifice that he made for her safety instilled good behavior and what saved the world and prevention of other characters getting the crown for less noble purposes.
Marceline’s mom didn’t abandon her, she sent Marcy to the “party” and left her a message that Marceline didn’t hear until over a thousand years later. The message was Marcy’s mom telling her that she was sick and she didn’t want Marceline to watch her die and she apologized for tricking her
Finally a reviewer who talks the ice king in a sad picture even stallin would be brought to tears
Stallin?
@@FirePuncher183 evil Soviet leader
@@Rcampo42 you mean Joseph Stalin?
@@FirePuncher183 yes
@@Rcampo42 why didn't you use someone like Hitler?
Billie Eilish: You should see me in a crown. 👑
Simon:
I love adventures time writing. It is so unique and complex but a child could still understand it
im not the type of person to comment underneath but I thought this video was perfect for me to share a story about my brother.
When I first saw that episode of marceline and ice king it drew my attention a lot when I saw how desperate marceline was to bringing simon back and how frustrating his responses to them was.
I've known this story for a long time and understood its tragedy and how I compared it to my brother but something about this video definitely gave me a new perspective to this issue which is what drove me to want to share a personal story on the internet.
My brother started using drugs in his very early teens, starting with cigarettes and weed to getting much stronger addictions and harder drugs.
he was a normal sane person with a personality and humor and had friends and girlfriends and hobbies and aspirations, living a young teenage life making some wrong decisions every now and then but then getting worse as his addictions took hold of his morality, at some point he had a girlfriend who did crystal meth this is when his addiction took a turn for the worse. He drove all his friendships away and all his desires to just pure anger and silence with the (leave me alone face) disconnecting from everything and everyone
he has been sober for 8 years now but his mind is completely lost. He isn't the same person he was before, and after many years I've understood that he will never go back the same anymore.After a long period of not seeing him for years and now finally living under the same roof again. Really living with him for the first time I have started grieving him. The person he once was, when we used to play video games as kids or when he'd bring me candy for no reason or when he'd steal literal game chips from game stop for me to play on my 3ds. his anger and afflictions drove our connection away for such a long time but now he's just a child.
My brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia bipolar disorder and PTSD at 21 and diagnosed with an intellectual disability at 26 years old
he has the intelligence of a 4 year old but the anger of a grown man.
but now he is alone, all the friends he once had, the highschool popularity, his ex girlfriends, all long gone.
He is a gravely difficult person to deal with and I've had a lot of hate towards him for so long but I've learned to live with his disability and help him the best I can.
i no longer hold resentment or take his insults personally because he is a lost and hurt person who is stuck inside his mind.
but since I've finally cried for the old him I've been trying to find him again
I've tried bargaining with him, showing him cartoons he used to like or music, he hasn't abandoned his desires completely but finds it very difficult to go deep into something like he used to, rejecting my attempt at bringing him back. as did marceline with ice king showing him all the moments they shared together and the letters he wrote to her "begging him to remember searching for the man that saved her
she sings the lyrics to his song eyes closed in tears singing a song that means so much for her. It almost looked like this was the moment she accepted that simon wasn't coming back but she also accepted that though he wasn't coming back she was grateful for it all and by simon and marcy she was going to protect and take care of ice king for the man that he once was and for this new version of him"
I loved this dialogue from this video because its true that as much as you try to bring back a person that has been gone for years it can never work but you can learn to love that person again.
not only is this video amazing for its analysis but the way that this story is perceived and how "simon coming back" isn't a happy ending. Ice king is his own entity and it shows by his subconscious attraction to marceline finding her wherever she goes and hanging around. I think its a beautiful story off loss, hurt and reconnection even if it isn't the way it used to be.
Ice king truly became my favorite after finding out his past, it was hard for me not to love his character afterwards