Review: Vänskä Thrills in a Sensational Mahler 8th!
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- Опубликовано: 5 дек 2023
- Mahler: Symphony No. 8. Sampson,, Wagner, Cooke, Dandy, Banks, Orlishausen, Immler, Various Choirs, Minnesota Orchestra, Osmo Vänskä (cond.) BIS
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One of the 1,001 singers here. I'm delighted people are happy with the diction, as it was recorded during the pandemic and we were all masked. We were spitting out consonants to nearly a comic degree to try and make sure they carried. And yes, this was a live recording.
I'm beyond pleased! This might be one of the greatest classical recordings ever recorded. I'm not being hyperbolic. I wouldn't be surprised if this was nominated for a Grammy. Congratulations!
Hey, I sang on that with the Minnesota Boychoir! The Boychoir is usually SATB but we were just there for the children’s choir part, so about a half-dozen of us tenors and basses were up there singing the whole piece in falsetto. It was a great experience, but pretty rough on the ol’ vocal cords. We worked really hard on the symphony, so I’m really glad you liked it!
Congratulations!
I too sung on this recording!!!
I'm so happy to see this review. I am going to give it a try today. I found your "Mahler's Most Embarrassing Work" video interesting, because, despite being a devoted Mahlerian, the Eighth has always been that one work that I find just a bit much. For decades I left it at the Tennstedt recording. But you've inspired me to dig in again, and I've just ordered the Dover score (the only work by Mahler for which I don't have a score on hand). Let's see if this release can turn me around on the work. Thank you.
Happy days! I will listen tomorrow. One of my absolute faves of all time, in the universe.
Always exciting when hit or miss cycles absolutely hit. Fun getting to hear this release only a few weeks after the Poschner Bruckner 5!
Thank you for your enthusiastic review! I always enjoy your reviews of new recordings. Unexpected things sometimes happen. How about your opinion of a new Janowski Schubert in Pentatone? Or Rach piano concerto 2 with Gerstein and Petrenko in Berlin?
The sound quality is the main star here. That said, the climax to the "Blicket auf" is - for once! - not underplayed. It's done superbly! "Blicket auf" is among Mahler's most brilliant 10 minutes stretches, which means it's among everyone's greatest 10 minute stretches. Also, as you pointed out David, the coda of the Part I is fantastic. Also, I love how the trombones running eighth-notes are perfectly audible throughout Vanska's fast paced central fugue section in Part I. This whole cycle has gotten better as it's rolled along, and that may be due to BIS as much as anyone else.
As a trombonist I approve of your review. I will have to listen to that section that you mentioned.
Thanks, I was looking forward to this review. I got my download from iTunes on Friday, and have listened twice already. I've seen a couple of reviews that were so-so, but I agree with you, I think it is superb. I now own 22 audio recordings including Wit, Tennstedt, Abbado, Chailly, and also 4 DVDs, and this Vanska is close to being my favorite.
Yeah, some of the reviews are ridiculous, imo. I also think that its a mixed bag with the Mahler. Some I didn't like too much. Others were amazing! I really loved the 6th (should've won the Grammy, imo)! Also the 7th was quite good. 9th was really good. 8th is out of this world good! The others are average.
Nice that the Minnesota cycle is now complete. I'll wait a year for Bis to package the whole set up into a nice budget box.
Vanska hasn’t recorded the Third yet - or not that I’ve seen.
@@TherealzartharnIt was recorded last November, it just hasn’t been released yet
@@WilliamHanna-zz2vc Thanks - I’ll keep an eye out for it.
The third has yet to be released, but the recording is done.
Sounds like Vanksa 4, 7, 8, 9 are your standouts in this cycle. I agree with you on that, tho I don't hate the others nearly as much as you :) This just leaves #3, and I thought the live performance was outstanding, and watching the video of it was even better. Can't wait for your evaluation!
P.S. Please review #10 when you have a chance!
This is a great review. Thanks Dave.
Listened to the recording after watching this video. Actually fantastic. It might be a stretch but this has the potential to tie Solti as my favorite 8th. Incredible sound, very cohesive.
I like it better than Solti on sonic grounds.
@@DavesClassicalGuide it is gorgeous isn’t it?
Thanks for the rave review, David. I've always loved the first Bernstein recording (with the LSO), even though the sound is definitely less than ideal. I'll efinitely look into buying this Vanska. I've been meaning to thank you for introducing me to "The Seven Gates of Jerusalem". I bought the Antoni Wit recording as a download (CD quality) from Presto Music and love the entire work. It's glorious from beginning to end.
Glad you like it!
Looking forward to giving it a listen. How would you say it compares to Wit? You mentioned him very briefly. Any challenge to the position of reference recording?
I'd have to live with this one for a while, but I think it's very close. I wouldn't want to choose.
I listened it yesterday and loved it!!
The very fact that Mahler's 8th is subtitled The Symphony of A THOUSAND represents Mahler's intention of exactly that ie: A THOUSAND participants in performing this Mammoth piece of music. All of Mahler's music is Heavenly and his 8th Symphony epitomises this perfectly
The nickname was not Mahler’s.
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but note to collectors--this DISK is ONLY available from the Minnesota Orchestra's website. Streaming is generally available.
I got mine from Ebay. A seller that imports from the U.K. About $26
The end of the first mvmt just gave me goosebumps... Very happy.
yes!
As as aside, interesting closed captions. Mahler cycle becomes "motorcycle"...^^
If the live performance by Horenstein Mahler 8 were better recorded minus the audience noise it would be an easy choice for me my personal favorite but I get so annoyed with all the interruptions, so I stick with Bertini or Wit thanks Dave for your recommendations.. let's see if Vanska can take my top spot?
The Horenstein is bad for many other reasons.
LOL - I was nervously anticipating your review - I was the one who trashed the live performance that I attended! I think I was a bit too overwrought - but the fully N95 masked chorus and orchestra was awful to look at (for me - many others didn't care) and it was very muffled. But I just listened to the recording, and the engineers have done a splendid job of rectifying the chorus sound as well as everything else, and you don't have to look at the masks!
I think in general the 8th is very hard to pull off live anyway. On the recording so much is elucidated. I am enjoying this performance a lot now.
Thanks for the great review!
Thanks for coming back and "fessing up!" I'm glad you like it better know. I can only imagine what this must have looked like.
When I go to concerts, I need to sit close and really connect visually with the musicians. That always excites me. With masks, it was impossible. I guess that may have colored my perceptions of the whole event. @@DavesClassicalGuide
How about a series about which recordings were the ones that made you "get" a major work.
" I wasn't until I heard So and So's version of Whatever that I finally "Got" it.
Listening to it on a streaming service and unfortunately the volume level changes from track to track: sometimes up, sometimes down. This discontinuity is very strange; otherwise, a magnificent recording!
As I said before, I had no such problem (but I wasn't streaming, it was a download).
I’ve only heard the 7th from the cycle, and I thought it was a good but not great recording. Maybe a bit mellow for my taste, but that really is a matter of taste and others may love the approach. Next time I’m in the mood for an 8th I’ll give this a listen.
Sensational recording and the best Soprano I since Julia Varady. But I prefer a less frantic pace. Wit is my personal favorite.
I don't think anyone can surpass Solti but this one is indeed very good. I listed to it all and there is no dull moment. The choir in the first part is somehow little foggy as opposed to the cut and clear orchestra. Tempos are relaxed not too rushed, in the second part the "Jene rose" never done more beautifully, the 3 women trio magnificently balanced. Sampson in the killer role of soprano I is far from ideal but she is recorded quite afar so you cant really tell how well she copes with the murderous tessitura, the 2 altos are marvelous, yes I would prefer a germen heroic tenor and more dark bass but all in all it's a great success.
Oh, it’s not too hard to surpass Solti.
Solti is very sumptuous in Part II with the best ever soloists. But the Veni Creator, in my view, is all hat and no cattle. Plus the sound quality is dated at this point.
Glad to see that there's someone else who complains about the fogginess in the choir in part 1. The second part is better in this respect (the Alles Vergängliche sounds sublime). Yet throughout this album the soundstage is disappointing in my opinion, both in width (i.e., narrow) and in depth (i.e., flat). Strange because Vanska's 5 and 9 are much better; matter of taste perhaps. Any way. after having listened to this Mahler 8 several times, I went back to my favorite: Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra under Mariss Jansons (live).
.... and the cymbals in the final chords do not sound like saucepan lids - AND - you can hear the tam-tam! Two minor aspects I listen for in Mahler's 8 recordings. The tenor has quite a distinctive voice - he'd make a good Mime in Siegfried...
Very clear recording though, and great to watch such an enthusiastic review.
I have both the Tidal and Presto Music apps. This recording was released on Tidal last Friday, and on that platform it is dreadfully annoying to listen to. #1, there are noticeable slight pauses in between each track (why they choose to separate classical music pieces into multiple sections per movement is beyond me - it drives me crazy!) #2, the volume changes with each track, so I have to keep lowering or raising the volume. It was finally released on Presto today, hopefully that listening experience is better. However, it sounds like this performance is so good that I will order the physical CD anyway.
I got it from Apple in addition to having the physical product, and I had no issues with pauses between tracks, and the volume issue did not exist either. The recording was gorgeous: opulent, transparent, and beautifully balanced. I really have no idea what those who complain about it are hearing.
I listened to the Presto Music stream last night, and it sounds fabulous. They got it right! I still want the physical CD, this is an excellent M8.@@DavesClassicalGuide
Ich stimme zu, eine großartige Einspielung. 🎶 Greetings from Germany und danke für Ihren Kanal. ❤👍🇩🇪 I like the singing Christian Immler very much. Haben Sie ihn im Wheinachtsoratorium mit Peter Dijkstra, Akademie für Alte Musik und BR-Chor gehört?! Great, IMHO. 👍
Danke! Ja, Ich hab es gehort. Toll!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Das meine ich auch. Take care. 😃👍🎶
My personal opinion...
The second movement of the this recording is what made me "get" the second movement.
I agree with Dave about the Tenor soloist..could be a more "heldentenor".
I wish the final statement of the brass was drawn out just a little more.
HOWEVER.....
Being a Church Choir guy..My vote for the BEST 1st movement is Robert Shaw.
The sopranos at the end just let it rip ( as they should) and the organ takes on a more prominent role.
FINALLY, Dave, someone with your experience GETS what Mahler 8 is all about. "Majesty" does NOT need to be imposed anywhere in this piece. It's ALREADY written into the music by MAHLER, it doesn't need any additions by bloated conductors.
Another astonishing thing about this work is the constant use of counterpoint, the weaving in and out of the themes and motifs in all the orchestral departments, it's a textbook and at the same time, a vital example of the Western music tradition. A good performance SHOULD be exhausting!
You're kind of dismissive of the words, but I have to say the great shout of "Veni! Veni creator spiritus!" is for me really thrilling in a way that it wouldn't if they were shouting "Big Mac! I like a Big Mac sometimes!"
And as for the finale - are you really going to argue with Goethe? Personally I'm always happy to let the eternal feminine draw me heavenwards.
I will argue with anyone. It’s what I do.
With applause or no applause at the end?
None
No applause. This was recorded with a mix of live performance and recording sessions.
But can you hear the mandolin?
Yes, of course. It's quite good.
yep!
Your excitement is wonderful evidence of your integrity and professionalism! You seem genuinely happy about the quality after being disappointed by the first installments of the cycle. That is why people trust your opinion! Thank you so much! I'm really excited to hear it now!
Thank you. I am excited. I don't wish failure on anyone.
I'm a resident of the Twin Cities and I've attended many MN Orchestra concerts. Unfortunately, if you get the wrong seat in Orchestra Hall you'll think that the orchestra and conductor are having a bad time. This might account for the negative review from the individual who attended the concert. Of course, it's great news that BIS has first rate engineers!
Oh wow! I guess I have to bump this up the listening queue!!!
Speaking of new releases by major American orchestras in works that are truly events and don’t get done much, are you going to review the new Des Canyons aux Étoiles from Seattle with Morlot?
No plans at present, but I’ll think about it.