A problem with relying on open string compared with 5th fret fingered is that on at least 75% of guitars, the open strings are noticeably flat compared with fretted notes further up, and even worse, the first fret is is often slightly flat compared with second to 7th frets. The safest way to tune is to compare all fretted notes some way up the fretboard. The other problem is major thirds. The G string in particular nearly always sounds way sharp after apparently tuning it accurately in open strings. That is because the G string is low tension and high mass, and it tends to grossly sharpen as you approach the 12th fret. A guitar is never in tune throughout. It's a compromise. The final problem is that while you can temporarily bend strings to correct flatness, you cannot "unbend" them to correct sharpness. Many good players often bend the root position tonic note on the low E and A strings to be sharper with some chords in order to stop the major thirds higher up sounding sharp.
I use the good old fork, then harmonic tuning, confirm with the one string (a) technique and finalize with open chords. The whole drill takes about a minute or two. I find that being gentle on the fretting helps because of the possible stretching if you press too hard , especially if your guitar has very fat frets. Thanks for the refresh, always fun.
I still use my trusty, tried and true, tuning fork to start with the 'A' string and tune the strings to each other with all being ever so slightly 'out' as the guitar naturally must be. I also use a guitar headstock tuner, to check more than to effect a pitch. It takes many years but ones ears eventually learn the correct sounds for ones own guitar - each guitar has its own sound and ease of tuning if it has been properly set up and intonated. I use a '71 Ramirez at present but love the sound you get from that Sheridan. Beautiful guitar. Thanks for your work. - From a fellow Aussie guitarist who too studied with Greg Pickler at Sydney Conservatorium. Keep up the good work. 🙂
For viewers' edification, Bach did not use equal temperament. That is a disproved assumption. Exactly equal teperament as opposed to nominally equal temperament is an invention of the early 20th century. This is all discussed in Duff's "Why Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony". Strictly speaking equal temperament is not in tune, particularly the major and minor thirds. So using an E string as a reference to tune the G string is not a good idea. Easily taught and learnt, abstract regulations cannot substitute for unique temperament according to the needs of a particular piece.
Thank you Simon, I knew nearly everything, I prefer the same method as you. And I wanted to add that even if often I am accurate with the five fret tuning method, sometimes when I am tired, or not that focused, or if there are lot of people talking around, like in a bar (I sometimes play in bars) I struggle to tune the guitar this way, so I often switch to the one string method. Then i check if with harmonics and octaves it is good and play some basic chords.
I know what you mean, I even find that when I am stressed about a performance my ears become less reliable so any system that makes it easier is the one I will use!
you shouldn't use harmonics at the 7th fret because it will give you perfect 5ths and the equal temperament built into guitars means the 5ths have to be lowered slightly. you'll find some chords out of tune with that method.
Wow, great video!! I generally use octaves to tune my guitar, but after watching your video I’m starting to experiment with tuning to one string. Btw, I still have and use an A440 tuning fork. Also I’ve told mentioned to many people that I think tuning by ear is more accurate, but very few people believe me. Yes the electronic tuners are quite accurate, but I feel you get just a tiny bit better tuning accuracy by ear.
First off all, 1. I have not seen yet a classical guitar less than 19 frets. You do want to have the 19 frets. 2. As you said until the tuners light turns on it takes time. Nope less than a second. And when you tune you don’t let go with your left hand turning the running why would you? By the time you try to explain even the beginning,I already had it turned.
Hi Margita, thank you for your comment. The 19th fret is very rarely a fret we will actually use to fret notes, and if we do we typically will only do so on the 1st string. The Paul Sheridan guitar Simon is using here does have a fret on the first string at the 19th fret. More typically we will use the 19th fret for harmonics, which will still sound just as brilliantly as ever without the fret present (not to mention all of the same harmonics are present at the 7th fret). The time it takes for tuners to "boot up" is not a long time, yes; Simon is simply mentioning potential downsides to using electronic tuners and this is not the only one. But it does take slightly longer, even if only a couple seconds. I couldn't fully understand your third point, but Simon was only demonstrating one way you *could* use the right hand to turn the pegs in order to continue to hear the reference pitch, but note that this is not his preferred way of tuning...he's trying to be fair to each tuning system by listing both pros and cons to each, and none of the points you're disputing affect that. There are still other cons that make Simon recommend the one-string approach for all the reasons he listed. Best wishes and thanks again for the comment. -Dave B
Thank you for this Simon, it was very helpful. I'll be joining CGC next month and I look forward to your lessons. Ps. your new guitar has a lovely tone.
You shouldn't put steel strings on a classical guitar. Classical guitars don't have their necks reinforced in any way, so putting steel strings on them will cause them to bend and even warp over time.
A problem with relying on open string compared with 5th fret fingered is that on at least 75% of guitars, the open strings are noticeably flat compared with fretted notes further up, and even worse, the first fret is is often slightly flat compared with second to 7th frets. The safest way to tune is to compare all fretted notes some way up the fretboard. The other problem is major thirds. The G string in particular nearly always sounds way sharp after apparently tuning it accurately in open strings. That is because the G string is low tension and high mass, and it tends to grossly sharpen as you approach the 12th fret. A guitar is never in tune throughout. It's a compromise. The final problem is that while you can temporarily bend strings to correct flatness, you cannot "unbend" them to correct sharpness.
Many good players often bend the root position tonic note on the low E and A strings to be sharper with some chords in order to stop the major thirds higher up sounding sharp.
I use the good old fork, then harmonic tuning, confirm with the one string (a) technique and finalize with open chords. The whole drill takes about a minute or two. I find that being gentle on the fretting helps because of the possible stretching if you press too hard , especially if your guitar has very fat frets. Thanks for the refresh, always fun.
I still use my trusty, tried and true, tuning fork to start with the 'A' string and tune the strings to each other with all being ever so slightly 'out' as the guitar naturally must be. I also use a guitar headstock tuner, to check more than to effect a pitch. It takes many years but ones ears eventually learn the correct sounds for ones own guitar - each guitar has its own sound and ease of tuning if it has been properly set up and intonated. I use a '71 Ramirez at present but love the sound you get from that Sheridan. Beautiful guitar. Thanks for your work.
- From a fellow Aussie guitarist who too studied with Greg Pickler at Sydney Conservatorium. Keep up the good work. 🙂
Thank you, @Epi Phone!
Thanks for the tips and explaining the pros and cons👍🏼
Thanks for your comment and glad it was helpful!
For viewers' edification, Bach did not use equal temperament. That is a disproved assumption. Exactly equal teperament as opposed to nominally equal temperament is an invention of the early 20th century. This is all discussed in Duff's "Why Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony". Strictly speaking equal temperament is not in tune, particularly the major and minor thirds. So using an E string as a reference to tune the G string is not a good idea. Easily taught and learnt, abstract regulations cannot substitute for unique temperament according to the needs of a particular piece.
This was really great Simon. So happy to be a student of yours.
Thank youvery much..Bro....I know this system 35 years ago but I forgot.....
Glad it was helpful, Rikki!
brilliant video and badly needed ,tuning wrecks my head ,thanks a lot Simon
Thanks for all your comments, Alan, and glad it was useful.
+Classical Guitar Corner is that the new guitar ? hows it going ?looks very classy
Thank you Simon, I knew nearly everything, I prefer the same method as you. And I wanted to add that even if often I am accurate with the five fret tuning method, sometimes when I am tired, or not that focused, or if there are lot of people talking around, like in a bar (I sometimes play in bars) I struggle to tune the guitar this way, so I often switch to the one string method. Then i check if with harmonics and octaves it is good and play some basic chords.
I know what you mean, I even find that when I am stressed about a performance my ears become less reliable so any system that makes it easier is the one I will use!
Thank you, Simon. I can see how the 1 string method would help a beginner learn the fretboard as well.
you shouldn't use harmonics at the 7th fret because it will give you perfect 5ths and the equal temperament built into guitars means the 5ths have to be lowered slightly. you'll find some chords out of tune with that method.
Love your podcast Simon
Thanks for listening!
What does it mean to tune the first pne?? To what????
Hello, what if I don't have a correct reference tuning and I don't have an electronic tuner either?
Wow, great video!! I generally use octaves to tune my guitar, but after watching your video I’m starting to experiment with tuning to one string. Btw, I still have and use an A440 tuning fork.
Also I’ve told mentioned to many people that I think tuning by ear is more accurate, but very few people believe me. Yes the electronic tuners are quite accurate, but I feel you get just a tiny bit better tuning accuracy by ear.
First off all,
1. I have not seen yet a classical guitar less than 19 frets.
You do want to have the 19 frets.
2. As you said until the tuners light turns on it takes time. Nope less than a second.
And when you tune you don’t let go with your left hand turning the running why would you?
By the time you try to explain even the beginning,I already had it turned.
Hi Margita, thank you for your comment. The 19th fret is very rarely a fret we will actually use to fret notes, and if we do we typically will only do so on the 1st string. The Paul Sheridan guitar Simon is using here does have a fret on the first string at the 19th fret. More typically we will use the 19th fret for harmonics, which will still sound just as brilliantly as ever without the fret present (not to mention all of the same harmonics are present at the 7th fret).
The time it takes for tuners to "boot up" is not a long time, yes; Simon is simply mentioning potential downsides to using electronic tuners and this is not the only one. But it does take slightly longer, even if only a couple seconds.
I couldn't fully understand your third point, but Simon was only demonstrating one way you *could* use the right hand to turn the pegs in order to continue to hear the reference pitch, but note that this is not his preferred way of tuning...he's trying to be fair to each tuning system by listing both pros and cons to each, and none of the points you're disputing affect that. There are still other cons that make Simon recommend the one-string approach for all the reasons he listed. Best wishes and thanks again for the comment. -Dave B
What brand is your guitar? the sound is so clear
Hi Simon !
Do you have any coment on tunning the guitar in 432hz ?
Thank you for this Simon, it was very helpful. I'll be joining CGC next month and I look forward to your lessons. Ps. your new guitar has a lovely tone.
Is it fine to have 3 steel strings and 3 nylon strings on my classical guitar, does that affect the sound of it?
You shouldn't put steel strings on a classical guitar. Classical guitars don't have their necks reinforced in any way, so putting steel strings on them will cause them to bend and even warp over time.
video starts at 5.22
THANK YOU
Thank you!!!!!!!!!