How to tackle trenching
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Rather than making workshop Notes videos I am producing single subject videos with a meaningful title which will help viewers to find videos about the subjects that interest them. I have had a number of questions about trenching techniques and so I hope that this helps.
I find the best method is the one that produces the least amount of dust! I’m usually working moisture resistant mdf and have had enough of the mess and air pollution that my router, with dust extraction can make. Its quite time consuming too, having to make multiple passes so as to avoid excessive wear and tear on the tool and cutter. My preferred, least dusty trenching method is to use the track saw but the key point to keeping the dust down is to only plunge about every 5 or 6 mm. This will leave behind 2 to 3 mm slithers which can then be snapped off manually, a few scrapes with a chisel and the trench is done. Minimal dust, less wear and tear on the tools, and it’s quicker!
Peter, all joking aside (and I note your reply) your description and demonstration of a plunge router is the best I've seen. So many YoutTube videos show a router bolted upside down to a table costing hundreds of dollars. Although I don't have a router I am grateful to you for explaining the action of a plunge router and what it can do.
Hi Peter, Just note what I say and not how I say it - we are all different and world is much nicer if we respect each other. Cheers. Peter
Peter hi. Just a word of thanks for great demos.Have a great day.
Thank you so much. Peter
Always a pleasure watching Peter! Have a Great Day and stay safe.
Hi Gary, As always, many thanks. Cheers. Peter
Nicely done! Here In the US, we also have the option of using a a set of dado blades on table saws, an option I have heard is largely unavailable in Europe. Of all, I find a router procedure the one I use most often because of its consistency, control, and flat bottoms - especially when encorporating easily made guides and jigs. In addition, if you have a board that has a slight bow or twist that can be overcome in final assembly, because the router registers to the wood in the area immediately adjacent to the cut, consistent depth is further maintained. Bravo!
Hi, if I had my way I'd purchase a cabnit grade sawstop with dado set but that's the price I pay for living in Europe. Not available here
Stacking dado blades are not available in Europe? Why, safety concerns? I would have a tough time getting the precision and consistency without my dado blades. I had no idea they aren't common everywhere.
Dado blades aren't common in Europe, although they do exist even on some portable circular saws (see the Festool VN-HK85 accessory for instance). I understand it's partly a safety issue (as one has to remove the riving knife and shroud which have to be used in a professional setting) but it's also due to the fact that spindle moulders are much more common in Europe than in the US.
I'm fortunate to have a dado set as it's a very efficient way to make long or repeat trenches (the set up time is relatively tedious, but the cutting time is very short, horses for courses)
I use a dado blade on my saw when needed l
From oxford England 🏴
@@joycemiller4716 what type of saw do you have and where do you get it
Hi Peter, about 45 years ago I had to make 12 rolling shelf units with 6 shelves on each unit. They all were dado in. Because it was just under 2' wide I did all the trenching before ripping the plywood sides. This saved me a lot of time & knew every side was spot on matching in height. I hope this helps someone down the road. Thank you Peter for your great videos. Happy New Year.
Hi John, Many thanks for the tip. Peter
You just helped me! Thanks.
@@bluewren65 thank you it's nice to know I helped someone. I live in New York, USA where are you
@@johnlowry5311 I'm in the remote Central Highlands of Tasmania! It's summer here. Hope the winter isn't too brutal where you are.
@@bluewren65 So far so good. Only one snow storm. Do you ever watch the Dave Stanton live show from Australia. He a great guy & put out a great show. He on Sunday morning @ 11 Australia time.
Hi Peter, nice video and exactly the same way as I would carry out the process. Why anyone would want to use a dado stack on a circular saw is beyond me. I am very glad that they are seldom seen in Europe. I know they seem to be creeping back thanks to RUclips video's originating from the USA, and a lot of untrained people are using them in the UK. The circular saw is statistically the most dangerous machine in a workshop, so the methods you have demonstrated are far superior and safer for budding woodworkers. I saw only the other day a reasonably well known UK RUclipsr use his hand to pass past the blade on a saw blade with no push stick contravening UK regulations, so working over the top with a track saw would definitely be a safer bet. As a side note I call "trenching" along the grain grooving and across the grain housing, but when I started out in the trade many years ago a lot of the senior machinists called it trenching, so I am very familiar with your terminology.
Hi Gary, Thank you for this - I feel safer doing things this way too. Cheers. Peter
Great video Peter. Your tools are in such amazing condition. I was making some extra wide door linings on a job last week using my brand new cordless plunge saw and brand new Festool extractor. The builder decided to use his disc cutter to chop in a lintel whilst I was having a tea break in the van, and I came back to see my brand new shiny kit covered in a thick layer of brick dust!!!. I had a fit and all he said was, 'all you carpenters ever do is moan'. CLASSIC
I said to someone recently that when I make a video it is like inviting your best friend into the house for tea - so I always do a "tidy" before making each video and sometimes during the filming process. When my sound insulation and dry lining was being done I lent the guys my Festool power distribution systainer and my work light. Both were covered in rock hard drywall mud and most of it is still there. Never mind ! Cheers. Peter
Yeah, i made the mistake of loaning my cordless drill to my Dad once. It came back covered in tar and destroyed. So i don't loan tools anymore, unless i want to actually give them to the person. Same thing with books. Someone once said that if you're asked to loan a book, you should respond with such a shocked look of horror at such an unimaginable request, so that the person never tries to ask again!
Just struck me aswell how his 10+ years old tools can look brand new and still use them frequently. I simply love watching Pete's educating about various woodworking skills. It's just soothing and like watching a Jeremy Clarkson but with more manners. Haha
So much i finally bought a parf guide system mk2 and made my own mft table
It grieves me to think of all the shop time I wasted in bygone years adjusting stack dado heads and saw fences to achieve somewhat iffy results. You're doing good to explain these processes, especially the router technique.
Hi Mark, Stacked Dado cutters are fine if you are doing production work but they do need to be accurately adjusted. Many can be adjusted by "dialing in" the required width. Cheers. Peter
I have never heard these referred to as “trenching” before (trenching to me is just in dirt), and I didn’t realise the difference between dado & groove. Thanks.
I do like the single process approach. That’s going to help me a lot.
Great stuff
Excellent!
I enjoyed the overview. I do all of these cuts on my table saw. Your methods here are nice alternatives for small shops without that capability; however, I think they’re all far more cumbersome. I do use a router table on occasion, but that’s because I have special made bits for plywood thicknesses.
On the subject of “rebates”, I think rabbet may be a more appropriate word for an edge trench. Perhaps it’s a subtle distinction, but I think of a rebate as a “relief”, or adjustment of a dimension. As always, I enjoy your quiet unhurried style.
Hi Victor, Many thanks. Peter
I do too. I use the banggood version of the kerfmaker. Quick and accurate.
Rabbet vs rebate. I read somewhere that the US English Rabbet is closer to the original version of the word, from the old French word Rabbat. Which makes a change 😉.
The router is my prefered method, it gives a nice clean cut to the bottom of the trench.
Good to know!
As a returning/newcomer to woodwork, so often it is the simple hints which make a difference - like marking the depth on the end to set the mitre saw blade ... although I thought you migh also have mentioned a table saw for the job ...
Ah, that is great to know. Didn't see the one on the base. Looks like a tricky install that one. Thanks for the reply
No problem 👍
Well taught but you missed the fourth one when you do not know pre-hand the width of the wood.. so you have your initial cut line then lay your wood on top against it and mark the thickest accordingly. Then follow as before.
Hi Kevin, Many thanks. Peter
Single subject, great idea.
Hi Mark, I am responding to several previous requests and I think it is a good idea. Cheers. Peter
@@NewBritWorkshop excellent idea, I also think, and I appreciate your fantastic work, cheers for you Peter!
Once again. A great informative abs entertaining video! I think I’ve now watched every video you have on here and I wait with anticipation for the new content you produce! Simply wonderful! Thanks Peter
Hi Barry, Gosh, you are very kind. Cheers. Peter
This is crystal clear, thanks from Paris!
Glad it was helpful!
@@NewBritWorkshop really usefull for a newb like myself 👍🏻
Thanks again Peter! Hope all is well.
Hi Mark, Thank you too - all is good thanks. Peter
Hi Peter,
Apart from the praise regarding the usual quality, two things that might be of interest to you;
- I think a kerfmaker will be a very usefull bit of kit, especially for the track saw option with the Parf fence.
- I figured out that you can place the festool fine adjuster (488754) also on the outside of the parallel guide. This will help you dialing in the second pass. (Similar to this part: 483358, but much more useful.
Many thanks. Peter
Hello Peter i enjoy watching and learning new skills. Thanks for the video. Stay safe.
Hi Christopher, You are always very kind - many thanks. Peter
Nice video Peter.
I ave to wonder why festool hasn't come out with a groove cutter. They've been making and using them in Japan for ages. Think of a track saw with specific width blades and then some thinner blades to dial in a width. Like a dado set on a table saw.
Hi Patrick, The Festool HK85 has this capability - take a look:
www.festool.co.uk/accessory/576803---vn-hk85-130x16-25#Overview
Peter
Good show Peter. Thanks for sharing with us innate talents that never end. Awesome kind Sir.
Hi Pat, I hope all is well with you and your family. Many thanks and take care. Peter
Hello Peter,
Thank you very much for this introduction to these methods. For me this video is very helpful.
I wish you a nice week and stay safe.
Kind regards,
Andreas
Hi Andreas, Many thanks and stay safe. Cheers. Peter
Nice to see you again. Always informative and helpful. thanks.
Hi Robert, Many thanks. Peter
gratitude Peter for his videos! 🙏❤️👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Hi Marcos, Many thanks. Peter
Tbh I forgot the kapex did that 🤦🏻♂️ that little green lever is very accurate from memory 😃
I notice the green cover on the dust port of your TS-55REQ. I believe you mentioned where you got it in an earlier video, but for the life of me I can't find that reference. Would you please let me know how to get one for my own TS-55REQ. Thank you, Peter.
Hi Michael, This will prove the point about me now making single subject videos - it was in a Workshop Notes video but I cannot remember which one. However, by pure chance, it is in the title picture of this video:
ruclips.net/video/h6Pgd7a0UD4/видео.html
I do not think the chap makes them any more but it is worth a check. Peter
Was wondering the same, thank you Peter!
By the way I just checked the other video and Feskit in the UK makes the green dust door. They still do produce it but there is no default option to ship to United States. I’ve written them and hopefully can work something out. Thanks again for providing the link!
Hi there I got mine from the Strawbyte workshop hope this helps
@@tonyblunsum2547 +1 for Karl @Strawbyte, I bought his waste side cutting jigs which which take the guess work out of cutting on the ‘wrong’ side 👍
There seems to be a misconception that you cannot use a table saw for dado/trenching here in the U.K. try looking at the Axminster cat: page no11 ,there is also a recent Axminster video that explains this in more detail (you do need deep pockets for the expense of the equipment though ! ! ).
I often wonder of the possibilities of an 18mm width router bit for trenching soft materials such as mdf, cabinet building would be a lot quicker in production. I often trench the edges for accuracy and then freehand the excess with a battery hand router ...
Excellent demonstration that there are many ways to achieve similar results!
Thank you! Cheers! Peter
Some good information Peter.
Hi John, Many thanks. Peter
This is where the Incra system is great. And it goes very well hand in hand with a Parf table.
Hi Immanuel, It is good but quite expensive though. Cheers, Peter
Great video. As I understood it Workshop notes is just a round up. To accommodate all, would adding one word key points not work ie (Workshop notes - trenching, bench, new drill.), if they were the points you are discussing. On trenching, I was taught we trench rebates on the outside of boards and housing's through the inside of boards not rabbets and dado's.
Hi Andy, Many thanks, Peter
Hi Peter. Thanks for another very informative video. Can I ask why people always put a piece of wood on the back fence?
Hi Lee, It is supposed to act as a sacrificial backing so that one gets no breakout at the back of the cut. In the same way there is a sacrificial insert strip on the base to stop breakout on the underside of a cut. Peter
Superb, informative video as always. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Hi Paul, You are very kind. Cheers. Peter
Sincerely, always learn something from your videos. Never thought about cutting dados with a plunge saw but will definitely be trying that now. Thank-you.
Thanks for the video. Any advice for cutting trenches in 2x4 pergola spars with a router please? I'm cutting perpendicular to the spar length so there isn't a suitable edge for the router fence. I guess... buy a mitre saw with a depth/trenching feature 🤣
Yes, a mitre saw might be easier but it is also easy to do with a router. There are several ways to do this and the following is just one example. Most routers are supplied with a guide bush which attaches to the base and often they are 30 mm in diameter. You will need a straight cutter that can be fitted to your router and pass through the guide bush. If a piece of wood is clamped at right angles to one of your spars and a set distance from where the left or right side of the channel should be you can then guide the router, held against that wooden guide piece to make a trench the width of the router cutter. You can do this in such a way as to create the left and right sides of the channel that needs to be cut. The remaining wood in the middle can also be taken out in a similar way but without the need to accurately place the guide piece of wood. The following video will help you calculate the offsets for positioning the guide piece of wood:
ruclips.net/video/fDAY-qHkiIE/видео.html
Peter
Peter
Seems you are recommending doing climb cuts with the router? Why is that? Unless there is some specific reason (like grain direction) one should use router when the cutter turns against the direction of movement. If you do it like you show it as a climb cut - the router can start "running".
Obviously with 8 mm depth into MDF that is not an issue - but if you were doing it with a 30 mm diameter bit at 10 mm depth....that can be an issue
Hi Mike, No, Anti-clockwise when cutting stock on your right and clockwise when cutting stock on the left. Peter
@@NewBritWorkshop so that means that when you cut on your right you have to PUSH the router away from you and not pull towards you...
Which is your preferred method?
I think the tracksaw for wider stuff and the Kapex for narrow pieces. Peter
Lovely informative video, thanks Peter. Where did you find the little extension wings for the kapex?
Hi Kate, I bought the Kapex and the extension wings both at the same time from Axminster - that was about 11 years ago ! Peter
Thanks. A very informative video. Do you have a table saw?
Hi George, Yes, a small Festool CMS-TS unit. Peter
Tablesaw with a 4mm flat ground blade is the easiest method I have found.
True. But they're not real big on tablesaws with dado blades over there in Europe, i hear. I've been told that dado blades are actually illegal there.
@@madhungarian3024 Not a dado blade just a wide blade with flat ground teeth.
Great video. Can I ask what is the green plastic piece you have covering the blade window on the TS-55 - its not on mine? Does it improve performance?
Hi kevin, It is to improve the dust collection but, if you are doing a lot of work with dusty stuff (like MDF) is reduces the efficiency overall. But, it does reduce the odd bit of dust that occurs in normal work. You will have to do a Google search as the original source is no longer available. Peter
@@NewBritWorkshop Thanks Peter
Hi, thanks for your video. Can you let us know what method is your favourite please?
Hi Jonathan, If the stock is narrow enough then I use the Kapex. I sometimes use my router table (I know I did not show that option) but only out to about 250 mm. The router on a rail is good for wider cuts but those are simpler and just as accurate on the tracksaw cutting station. Peter
@@NewBritWorkshop thank you Peter. I’ve used my mitre saw before but I recently made a small router table so I plan to give that try soon.
Buy a table saw.
Limit of exploitation? Arbitrary? You are talking wood work you're not a BBC weather presenter