I really do wonder why Gaijin has kept the energy retention and overall flight model of the Su-27 so poor for so long. It somewhat made sense back when it was added, as it had by far the best missile kit in the game. However, with the introduction of FOX-3s and the gap between the AIM-120 and R-77, it doesn't really make sense anymore, imo.
Maybe because they’re doing some fixing on supersonic and/or hypersonic armament? They’ve got the artificial Mach 1 bomb drop limit, at least one Mach 5-capable missile (that actually can turn), and with the early 4.5 gens coming to the game either in the next update or soon after, it makes sense for them to do so
Because that's the flipside of 'supermaneuverability'. It doesn't mean a plane can magically pull AoA all day erry day and not slow down. It means a plane can retain control of the direction the nose is pointing well past the point where 'normal' planes are able to retain that control, generally speaking post-stall. That's all it means.
@@MrBlueBurd0451 There is HUD footage of the Su-27 having double the energy retention IRL than ingame. Just look at the wing profile/shape, aerodynamically the F-16 and Su-27/MiG-29 dont differ by such a large amount, all have lifting body fueselages, large LERX and triangaloid wings. Why then do the russian jets bleed such a large amount of speed?
@@damirvakhitov9213 Have you seen the size of the flanker, that things a dang football field. It makes the F-15 look small which is already a massive plane.
@seductive_fishstick8961 Aside from 27er it loses in every department to western planes. Missile count is just a number if the platform doesnt allow u to use your tools effectively. Sure f15a doesnt have hmd and sure aim 7f/ms (they are the same in game, like the 120a and b) are not the best SAR missiles in the game (they are the second best and still very much capable) and sure r73s are better at very close range, especially paired with hdm. BUT. F15a has the kid to make its more limited loadout work, the radar is WAY better, rwr is not just 8 pings on a circle with literally no info, it has over twice the CM count at a br where a lot of chaff is basically mandatory and the lack of hdm is somewhat offset by the plane being the hdm, it turns and keeps the speed that well
It's actually crazy how fast Gaijin is power-creeping the game. And I'm not even saying that as someone who was there when the deep magic was written and 9.0 was the highest br in the game. The pace of better and better planes being added is increasing. Apex Predators dropped with the mig-29/f-16 in December of 22, and the upgraded versions dropped in Sons of Attila in September of 23. Not even two months later, we get the f-15/su-27 in Air Superiority with their upgraded variants dropping in Search and Destroy in June of this year and then we get the even better f-15e/su-34 just last month. Like, they are fucking blasting through these planes. They aren't giving the game or the players any time to just marinate and get used to what's there before they dump the pot out and throw something newer in. How long before the F-22 gets added and we get videos talking about how the F-15E used to be the top dog?
Tanks got the same treatment even before then. MBT/KPz-70 and T-64A were added in September 2017 and massively shook up the top tier meta as suddenly armour mattered again after years of HEATFS point and click. March of next year, the Leopard 2K, M1 Abrams and T-64BVM are added. These completely outclass the previous top tier in every way possible, armour now only matters if you're playing Russia. June of the same year, the Leopard 2A4 joins the club and revokes the T-64BVM's armour privileges. In less than one year, the meta shifted 4 times. No armour, mobility only -> Armour -> Armour & mobility -> No armour, mobility only. March 2019, the Leopard 2A5, M1A1 and T-80U get added. These tanks are immune to the shells of the previous top tier tanks (on the turret at least), while having the same or better mobility and vastly superior firepower. Once again, the previous top tier tanks are nearly irrelevant in the meta. This is especially an issue in ground battles, where you'd ideally have a full lineup that is competitive, so frequent shifts in the meta are even more disruptive than in air battles.
@@Creepus_Explodus Exactly. Imo, I think once Gaijin saw how much money there was to be made with modern vehicles, they just started only focusing on them. Once they dropped tier 6, all hell broke loose and WWII/cold war vehicles got left behind.
The R-77 performance wouldn’t be so ass if it’s fm was least accurate Or the other way around where the R77 is modeled accurately Meanwhile US jets get both Who at QC gave it the OK ?
@@areyou0k98but it shouldn't suck as bad as it does. There is this wobble on the missile that due to the dragfins just kills its momentum way too quickly.
quick note on the flight performance, its not just the flight instructor being bad (which it is) The Su-27 is just straight up underproformace even in full sim controls. would recommend this video for a breakdown: ruclips.net/video/v_WZ9ZzXZXU/видео.html
The Russian Mig29 (9-13) at 12.7 is miserable to play. You do get 2 r27er and then useless r60m that only work against people that aren't paying attention but even then any missile works against people that aren't paying attention so that's not an argument in their favour, and the flight model is miserable. Because the r60m is so bad you essentially have 2 missiles that you need to keep locked with your terrible radar and the biggest problem is the flight model. Because you lose speed so badly and because you're almost always uptiered against ARH missile spam you need time to pick speed back up after defending and because r60m's are so easily flared you really don't want to get into a close range dogfight because you'll have to use guns and speed bleed is nuts. So then you're keeping at a range that makes ARH missiles more effective and you'll likely just trade, but if you close their superior airframes/fox 2 missiles. It really really needs to be given r73 and just bumped up to the same BR as the German one (13.0). On a last note the r73 I find better than the aim 9m only because its ever so slightly harder to flare off. With the aim 9m you just point your butt at it, flare and pull hard on the stick in the opposite direction of the flares and it will lose track 100% of the time, but you can keep afterburning all you want. Where as with the r73, you also need to cut the afterburner, so that one extra step can end up securing the kill because people either forget or don't get it off in time.
Everything down from Mig-21SMT is horrible experience. The Mig-23 Radar sucks big time, Mig-29 is just sad and Su-27 is so bad in current meta it's not even funny.
@@jankolafa3901 Just bcz one worse plane exists at that br doesnt make su27sm any better. J11a is just tragic and it being at the same br as f15e is a joke. As mig 23 and 29 are concerned, they work only bcz US mains have no hands and are free kills
@@jankolafa3901 doesnt change the fact that the mig23 radar is, in fact, dogshit, mig 29 flighmodel is NOT good whatsoever, and since when is the j11a in the russian tech tree? either i must have missed something or youre a lobotomite
@@jankolafa3901 Define ''Mig-23 is amazing'', it's radar is complete garbage against even some 10.7 aircraft and the R-24Rs can't really function properly after the radar got nerfed to hell, the MTI activates only when flying TOWARDS THE GROUND and under about 2000m. Not to mention it's notched extremely easily with chaff.
One thing I should mention about the Su-27 is that IRL its flight performance becomes very competetive against peer blufor jets ONLY below 25% of internal fuel(little more than 11 minutes of fuel ingame), as it is built as a extreme long range air defense fighter capable of covering the entire soviet airspace without the need for giant drop tanks, the fuel capacity is huge and weighs the plane down extremely if filled to a high percentage. Combined with the reletively moderate A/B fuel burn bringing less than 35% of fuel will pay off in most circumstances.
And that doesn't take away the acknowledged bug reports about mig-29smt and Su-27SM having far worse energy retention compared to real-life performance with comparable loadouts.
@mmneaapro596 true, the SMT was done so dirty it is not even funny tbh, the 29A varients and the flankers are "OK-ish' compared to the SMT, still underperforming but atleast you can meme someone who doesn't know how airspeed works in top tier (a.k.a 80% of the lobby), And it doesn't help that a lot of Blufor jets are overperforming by a wide margin or completly out class their opponents by era or tech. I don't know what kind of airfoils or crack concentrate you'd need to pull 14Gs for 30 whole seconds on a 1980s 4th gen fighter without TVCs.
Unpopular opinion, but i really do think every fox3 equipped plane needs to be a full 1.3 higher than planes without. Move literally all fox 3 slingers to 14.3 minimum. max SARH slinger BR to 13.0
Nah that's bad idea repeating 'R-27ER Superiority' again. Thats only because you are USSR main bro. Please watch where Mirage 4000 or Belgain F-16A is.
@@lthotpocket8259 Then go fight with Su-27, and feel what exactly 'R-27ER Superiority' was. I don't want to face this horrible experience again. SARH only? Yes, here the R-27ER exists.
Gonna be frank even though thats not my name but the only ARH missiles we should be seeing in SARH top tier are pheonixes and the dreaded fakours and that's it. new gen fox 3s should be completely separate. I'll keep saying it until they actually do it or someone makes a forum post that gains so much traction that another review bombing type community event happens. Someone should really get on that.
I distinctly remember it being the GRIPEN that ruled top tier during those days. All sarhs, even the 27ER, were pretty mid during the age of 100m multipathing. The meta was 9M spam + infinite flares.
Jup griphen and f16s clowned on the su27 I owned all 3 and I prob flew my su27 a few times and never touched it again. Same with the new su27 russia has been shit last good plane was the mig 29
I just got this plane, I loved it for the first 30 games. After the euphoria of starting your 13.0+ journey, you realize that Fox-3’s own that BR bracket and that you are useless until you close the gap with enemy Fox-3 users to 60,000 feet and less. In the pain of spading this jet, I have 3/4 of the SM researched. I hope that R-77’s will be fruitful 🙏.
@@interpl6089 yea at least the M2, the SM is a little too advanced for now I feel like it would be fair to add it mid next year with the rafale M, F2A, Gripen E, F15E with AESA, maybe a Hal Tejas
@SeekerHead problem is the Pheonix is ass. Pulls less G's then a aim-9d/g/h and everyone and their mother dodges it because it's really easy to. The Fakour-90 is a million times better with its insane acceleration and 20 g's of maneuverability, it's an absolute menace. Meanwhile the B is firing slightly better aim-54a's at Su-27's and many other skilled players who have been dodging it for an entire year. It doesn't matter if your doing mach 1.3 at 20K feet or higher, you just don't get kills. Being at 13.0 turns it into a budget F-15A with aim-9L's.
And I wonder how many people will comment about it without watching or listening to anything Edit: I’ve since changed the title in hopes it does better
The Su-27 never ruled at all, unless perhaps if you count its dev server flight model. For all the screeching about the superiority of the 27ER, all SARHs were very mid back during the day of 100m multipathing. The king of the meta was unquestionably the Gripen and the most meta missile at the time was the AIM-9M.
I played a lot with RU toptier and it's seriously behind most of the nations. And here i want to say i also have other top tiers(USA, GER, CHN, doing JAP), R-77 is fine now the problem with russia is flight model and "old" planes. Russian just need new aircraft and fix FM to be compatetive with others.
R-77s are also the problem. Their FM is fucked to the point its basically a R-73 with radar guidance. It should be able to hit targets at 40km in a head-on when launched at mach 0.9. it can't. It falls off about 10-15 kilometers short.
@@jankolafa3901 Using Gaijins retarded logic germany DOESN'T HAVE any toptier jet. Why? Because gaijin said they will not add any toptier premium, sooooo after F-4F ICE droped to 13.0(the same BR as new premium Viggen) germany simply doesn't have any toptier jet.
I wish there was a hard cap at top tier where ARH planes only fight other ARH planes. It would make SARH planes more viable again, and imo help the game be a lil more balanced. Also, they should exchange the MiG-29s (except for the SMT and G) R-27ERs for R-73s as the base MiGs never carried the ER variant until the 9-13S, i believe
Germany never bought R-27ER or ET, if they modeled the MiG-29 in accurately there'd be no purpose for the MiG-29G. And plain MiG-29s actually could carry ER's with a software upgrade independent of the 9-13S upgrade package. Also gaijin shouldve added the 9.18 instead of 9.19 so that russia can get a 9.12 airframe too.
The su27 is not good in the dogfight at all and i fly both country´s jets and more. Alltho i have to say it can pull good manuvers with it i full controll but for the average russian player its too hard to time it so it doesnt backfire on you. If you manage to get in a onecircle the flanker series can be very devestating, but like said takes a lot of skill to do it effectively.
US mains will still say the su27 is better than the F15 though, it's just how US mains work, they think a biplane will out perform their f15 and it needs to be buffed, it is the plague that is the US player base
Tbh there would be no reason for it to have a higher BR than the Su-27, it's almost the same plane. You'd get 2 more R-27s and slightly worse T/W ratio, and that's it.
i hope that one day we will get multipathing back to 100 m so we dont need to became submarines to avoid bullshti 120s who can track u at any alt u fly. i died to it flying at 4m
I think 100m is still to high, I think making it 75m would be good, they also need to fix it some missiles stop acting like FAB-5000s when they hit the ground under you
About the thumbnail... I mean to the vasy majority of WT player if you do any acrbatic manuver they have that reaction no matter how basic it is... Like I had a coverstauion with a guy on discord about the fact WT is a flight sim so IRKL mavovers are a thing in it like the vast majority of fklight sims no matter how acrate or how much sim daata they have... And this guy could not understand why anyone whould inmalmen in WT and he thought it wouldbe so niche he wanted me to describe what figjht it could be used for... When I use inmamlwemens the the revsre form to just turn around as it grants me mmuch more visibly in all flightsims which is somthing I made a habit of in Ace combat 4 around it's realse and have used it to much success sense including in WT and DCS world... As unlike a hoerzonale turn a vertical trun can weasly change you altude and can be used to great wefgfect in confined places you normally see in Flight sims like mountins, canyons and dense big cities... Also the guy brought up montum but it doesn't matter unless your plane is extermy slow and has a terivle climb or dive rate or can't take any gs at all... Which in WT momentum is not really a factor as all WT modes have a heavy top cap that will instant kill your polane if reached... So uin WT momentum is mostrly a thing in a rate fight. which in a rando match you'll never npormally see... Unlike horizonal rolling scisors which is insaly common in all WT modes despite being rare IRL... So if you are a rolling sisors enjorier WT is by far the best way to see one and get in one... Which oddly rolling sisors isn't a thing in DCS world or AC7... So yeah the meme of people freakin out over someone doing a one of the many conbra manuvers that exsist today really isn't a thing in WT as WT players freak out over any manuver but horizonal rolling sicors....
Any other nations except USSR and China said exactly same when the 'R-27ER Superiority'(=Air Superiority~Alpha Strike) came before... and Gaijin never changed it. We can't expect special case for them sadly.
Pls play the F-16A. This is the saddest plane in top tier now. 95% uptier, where you cannot earn any RP. Constant 13.7 without any IRCCM missiles or any radar missiles, simply unplayable
Flanker FM aint even that bad, im only flying the objectively worst ones, the J11 and J11A and i find them to be just fine, perfectly serviciable, just dont dogfight the block 10 f16's and you're golden
Broski, how are you going to listen to a bunch of the best duelists in game unanimously agree that the Flanker has the worst top tier flight model for dueling, and then ignore them?
still disagree that 73 is awesome. it's real deadly range at non-blind enemies is about 1-1.5 km, while thrust vectoring does a lot of weird stuff in maneuvers on low speed. overall missiles really carry out Soviet tops, no sheet
Idk, I generally one flare them pretty commonly. Although for some reason my aim9m’s are practically ignored and lose track, yet when I get an aim9M shot at me they’re inflatable lol
im pretty sure the f15e is too fat to actually kill the flanker with the new instuctor, only thing he can do is go vertical which the f15e is very good at but then youll be showing your ass to the flanker and we all know how that would end up
I just want them to fix the damn radar, and for su27s to go 13.0 in air sim. but i wouldnt say no to a r77-1 or r77m which is quite deadly, aim-120 is just currently like fakour 90 at higher tier that you can launch at multiple enemies from safe range and get a couple of kills, maybe thats why f15/f16 players cant even win a dogfight against su27 currently. well thats what grinding a tech tree by bombing bases will teach ya. 😂
This is funny that every other nation except USSR&China exactly 'coped' in the crazy R-27ER Superiority by Su-27 at first half of 2024. And the time changed, its their turn, they started coping harder than any others. 😂
This is my opinion people don’t come after me OK an su27 minimum fuel in simulator is going to beat that f15 every time and a f16 but only at minimum fuel
I cant lie, If you fly with caution but with intent to kill, and take the chances to kill with the hmd r27ers, lord is this plane good, ive been able to maintain 4kills+ per game with this beast
@@interpl6089Getting 4kills in an aircraft with 10 great missiles is not a big deal if you know how to use your missiles properly. Also nobody needs to prove anything to you. You're just a dude on the internet.
@@conflictclipsTheres not a single person on the Air RB leader boards right now who's averaging above 4 kills per battle lmao. Only around 600 are averaging more than 2 kills per battle. The man himself, Defyn, maintained around 3 kills per battle average with the SU27 back when it could actually be argued to be one of the top dogs. Yeah, it's just a silly comment on the internet, but the guy is also blatantly lying 🤷♂️
@@cagingskies9584 really? then I must be in the top 1000 lmao. Gotta check. I think it's not that hard just proper positioning and learning when to use your missiles.
I love this plane so much, it's one of my most played planes, but it's sooo inconsistent because of the matchmaker. In a down tier I can consistently get 4-5 kills, but I struggle to get 1-2 kills in an uptier
@@seductive_fishstick8961 something like "Russians cope about Aim120", even tho bro only talked about how Su27 is underperforming. I guess title was bait since otherwise ppl won't be interested in watching a vid about a russian jet. And as a Russia main, it deff worked on me 💀💀💀 But as long as it spreads awareness about this goofy jet, I'm chill with it
I made, and won 1v1 against F-16C. That is not becouse I'm good at It, it's just that people in this game are really stoopid, becouse they think they are good becouse they can't see how bad they really are. BE HUMBLE
@@seductive_fishstick8961 You're misremembering. All SARHs were mid as hell in an environment with 100m multipathing. The meta king was the Gripen by a tremendous margin, and the most meta missile was the AIM-9M
@@TheArbiter1721 it could be added but, there would be a lot of backlash for an american missile to be in the ussr techtree, imagine if the iranian f14 went to ussr and not usa
Ngl, but I was in an air sim battle last night on a team of nothing but gripens and F15C/Es. . . There's this dude in an SU27SM who starts babbling in chat, saying that he hates US planes. *"Maybe if the us was smart, they would build something other than dumb missile slingers!"* and crap like that (meanwhile) we had like 8 dudes on our team with one guy who had 10 kills and like less than 5 for the rest. . . But this SU27SM dude (on a team of 3) had TWENTY NINE AIR KILLS IN UNDER AN HOUR 😂 like bro. . . He even had the gaul to say that people on my team were pussy chickenshits because they stopped crossing the front line border!!! 🤣 (We still won btw lol)
Soviet jets having any sort of HMD is just laughable, yes they were some soviet projects, but later on it has just somehow disappeared off to Narnia. Like currently su-34 don't have any form of hmd, and there is no solid proof of su-35 or even 57 having them (neither does mig-31). But gajin just imagined all of this out of thin air like 2s38, beautiful and balanced
Are you high? The Soviets were literally the pioneers of hmd and had it back in the 80’s. The r-73 was specifically made to be used with hmd. The shchel-3UM was this set and it came with su-27’s and MiG-29’s off the assembly lines. After German reunification the combination of the 2 systems scared the west into developing their own hmd and thrust vectoring missiles. Stop spreading misinformation.
I need whatever this guy is on ASAP😂. As the guy above said the R-73 was literally designed around the HMS. Same with the RWR the Spo-15 was the first RWR to utilize signal strength to measure range and could tell whether the signal was above you or bellow, yet it had non of that and only recently got modeled this patch.
playing the german mig29 is like playing soccer in a wheel chair
German bias except air. It do be how to be
Remember we’re getting a EF2000 :-)
Football*
@@xx_lightning_xx5781 Alimuminum - ali- mum-inum
Isnt that the one with better flight performance compared to SMT due to the lower weight but still has R73?
Gaijin gotta buff these artificially nerfed fms
Yup. The SU-27, Mig-29, F-14, Yak-141 all need their flight models unnerfed.
@ f14??
Le statistik says no komrad))))
@@Duality.12 All F-14s are lacking AoA and the B is missing engine thrust.
they are shit IRL, they are not nerfed.
I really do wonder why Gaijin has kept the energy retention and overall flight model of the Su-27 so poor for so long. It somewhat made sense back when it was added, as it had by far the best missile kit in the game. However, with the introduction of FOX-3s and the gap between the AIM-120 and R-77, it doesn't really make sense anymore, imo.
Maybe because they’re doing some fixing on supersonic and/or hypersonic armament? They’ve got the artificial Mach 1 bomb drop limit, at least one Mach 5-capable missile (that actually can turn), and with the early 4.5 gens coming to the game either in the next update or soon after, it makes sense for them to do so
Gaijin doesn't unnerf things. See M735
Because that's the flipside of 'supermaneuverability'. It doesn't mean a plane can magically pull AoA all day erry day and not slow down. It means a plane can retain control of the direction the nose is pointing well past the point where 'normal' planes are able to retain that control, generally speaking post-stall. That's all it means.
@@MrBlueBurd0451 There is HUD footage of the Su-27 having double the energy retention IRL than ingame. Just look at the wing profile/shape, aerodynamically the F-16 and Su-27/MiG-29 dont differ by such a large amount, all have lifting body fueselages, large LERX and triangaloid wings. Why then do the russian jets bleed such a large amount of speed?
@@damirvakhitov9213 Have you seen the size of the flanker, that things a dang football field. It makes the F-15 look small which is already a massive plane.
Love how he didn't mention the absolute garbage rwr and bad radar
Doesn't play into the narrative. Su-27S is complete trash at 13.0 against other 13.0s.
@@interpl6089 you are crazy
@seductive_fishstick8961 Aside from 27er it loses in every department to western planes. Missile count is just a number if the platform doesnt allow u to use your tools effectively. Sure f15a doesnt have hmd and sure aim 7f/ms (they are the same in game, like the 120a and b) are not the best SAR missiles in the game (they are the second best and still very much capable) and sure r73s are better at very close range, especially paired with hdm. BUT. F15a has the kid to make its more limited loadout work, the radar is WAY better, rwr is not just 8 pings on a circle with literally no info, it has over twice the CM count at a br where a lot of chaff is basically mandatory and the lack of hdm is somewhat offset by the plane being the hdm, it turns and keeps the speed that well
@@guvyygvuhh298 I am not sure if you are trolling or not…
7:10 GENERAL LEE??!!!?
General Lee fine.
Where?
@@smolpenguingoddess he says generally sounds like general lee
It's actually crazy how fast Gaijin is power-creeping the game. And I'm not even saying that as someone who was there when the deep magic was written and 9.0 was the highest br in the game. The pace of better and better planes being added is increasing. Apex Predators dropped with the mig-29/f-16 in December of 22, and the upgraded versions dropped in Sons of Attila in September of 23. Not even two months later, we get the f-15/su-27 in Air Superiority with their upgraded variants dropping in Search and Destroy in June of this year and then we get the even better f-15e/su-34 just last month. Like, they are fucking blasting through these planes. They aren't giving the game or the players any time to just marinate and get used to what's there before they dump the pot out and throw something newer in. How long before the F-22 gets added and we get videos talking about how the F-15E used to be the top dog?
Tanks got the same treatment even before then. MBT/KPz-70 and T-64A were added in September 2017 and massively shook up the top tier meta as suddenly armour mattered again after years of HEATFS point and click. March of next year, the Leopard 2K, M1 Abrams and T-64BVM are added. These completely outclass the previous top tier in every way possible, armour now only matters if you're playing Russia. June of the same year, the Leopard 2A4 joins the club and revokes the T-64BVM's armour privileges.
In less than one year, the meta shifted 4 times. No armour, mobility only -> Armour -> Armour & mobility -> No armour, mobility only.
March 2019, the Leopard 2A5, M1A1 and T-80U get added. These tanks are immune to the shells of the previous top tier tanks (on the turret at least), while having the same or better mobility and vastly superior firepower. Once again, the previous top tier tanks are nearly irrelevant in the meta. This is especially an issue in ground battles, where you'd ideally have a full lineup that is competitive, so frequent shifts in the meta are even more disruptive than in air battles.
@@Creepus_Explodus Exactly. Imo, I think once Gaijin saw how much money there was to be made with modern vehicles, they just started only focusing on them. Once they dropped tier 6, all hell broke loose and WWII/cold war vehicles got left behind.
Ngl, F22A [early] with 2x 9L/Ms and 4x 120Bs. . . Lol
Yeah the pace is breakneck, and if the leaks are to be believed we’re getting 4.5 gens next patch.
@emilelerate6454 Ah yes I can't wait for the F18C to be a dominant force against typhoons and Rafaels lol
Just watch
10x 120s and 2x 9Ms 😁
The R-77 performance wouldn’t be so ass if it’s fm was least accurate
Or the other way around where the R77 is modeled accurately
Meanwhile US jets get both
Who at QC gave it the OK ?
the ones who saw US players giving more money
The original R-77 absolutely sucks, that's just a fact. It's the updated R-77-1 that is actually a decent missile.
@@areyou0k98but it shouldn't suck as bad as it does. There is this wobble on the missile that due to the dragfins just kills its momentum way too quickly.
@@areyou0k98 The R-77-1 is the one with a 2 stage booster right?
@@seductive_fishstick8961 They knew how bad the R-77 was and redesigned the whole missile. New fins/ controls/ boosters/ radar etc.
i wouldn't really think russia needs another fox-3 if it wasn't for the fact the r77 is literally just an inferior mica combo'd with bad plane radars
quick note on the flight performance, its not just the flight instructor being bad (which it is) The Su-27 is just straight up underproformace even in full sim controls. would recommend this video for a breakdown:
ruclips.net/video/v_WZ9ZzXZXU/видео.html
The Russian Mig29 (9-13) at 12.7 is miserable to play. You do get 2 r27er and then useless r60m that only work against people that aren't paying attention but even then any missile works against people that aren't paying attention so that's not an argument in their favour, and the flight model is miserable. Because the r60m is so bad you essentially have 2 missiles that you need to keep locked with your terrible radar and the biggest problem is the flight model. Because you lose speed so badly and because you're almost always uptiered against ARH missile spam you need time to pick speed back up after defending and because r60m's are so easily flared you really don't want to get into a close range dogfight because you'll have to use guns and speed bleed is nuts. So then you're keeping at a range that makes ARH missiles more effective and you'll likely just trade, but if you close their superior airframes/fox 2 missiles. It really really needs to be given r73 and just bumped up to the same BR as the German one (13.0).
On a last note the r73 I find better than the aim 9m only because its ever so slightly harder to flare off. With the aim 9m you just point your butt at it, flare and pull hard on the stick in the opposite direction of the flares and it will lose track 100% of the time, but you can keep afterburning all you want. Where as with the r73, you also need to cut the afterburner, so that one extra step can end up securing the kill because people either forget or don't get it off in time.
The 9-13 needs its R-73 already
Everything down from Mig-21SMT is horrible experience. The Mig-23 Radar sucks big time, Mig-29 is just sad and Su-27 is so bad in current meta it's not even funny.
must be the russian bias they keep talking about
You have just skill isue, mig-23 is amazing, 29 is good on 12,7 and yeah su-27sm is not really meta, but remember j-11A exist, so dont cry
@@jankolafa3901 Just bcz one worse plane exists at that br doesnt make su27sm any better. J11a is just tragic and it being at the same br as f15e is a joke. As mig 23 and 29 are concerned, they work only bcz US mains have no hands and are free kills
@@jankolafa3901 doesnt change the fact that the mig23 radar is, in fact, dogshit, mig 29 flighmodel is NOT good whatsoever, and since when is the j11a in the russian tech tree? either i must have missed something or youre a lobotomite
@@jankolafa3901 Define ''Mig-23 is amazing'', it's radar is complete garbage against even some 10.7 aircraft and the R-24Rs can't really function properly after the radar got nerfed to hell, the MTI activates only when flying TOWARDS THE GROUND and under about 2000m. Not to mention it's notched extremely easily with chaff.
8:31 turns out f3f-2 is not a good 13.0…
One thing I should mention about the Su-27 is that IRL its flight performance becomes very competetive against peer blufor jets ONLY below 25% of internal fuel(little more than 11 minutes of fuel ingame), as it is built as a extreme long range air defense fighter capable of covering the entire soviet airspace without the need for giant drop tanks, the fuel capacity is huge and weighs the plane down extremely if filled to a high percentage. Combined with the reletively moderate A/B fuel burn bringing less than 35% of fuel will pay off in most circumstances.
And that doesn't take away the acknowledged bug reports about mig-29smt and Su-27SM having far worse energy retention compared to real-life performance with comparable loadouts.
@mmneaapro596 true, the SMT was done so dirty it is not even funny tbh, the 29A varients and the flankers are "OK-ish' compared to the SMT, still underperforming but atleast you can meme someone who doesn't know how airspeed works in top tier (a.k.a 80% of the lobby),
And it doesn't help that a lot of Blufor jets are overperforming by a wide margin or completly out class their opponents by era or tech. I don't know what kind of airfoils or crack concentrate you'd need to pull 14Gs for 30 whole seconds on a 1980s 4th gen fighter without TVCs.
Unpopular opinion, but i really do think every fox3 equipped plane needs to be a full 1.3 higher than planes without. Move literally all fox 3 slingers to 14.3 minimum. max SARH slinger BR to 13.0
Popular*
Nah that's bad idea repeating 'R-27ER Superiority' again. Thats only because you are USSR main bro. Please watch where Mirage 4000 or Belgain F-16A is.
@@Takamiya_Mio Bold of you to assume im a USSR main. I main US. I stand by my point. Fox 3 equipped planes have no business fighting SARH only planes.
@@lthotpocket8259 Then go fight with Su-27, and feel what exactly 'R-27ER Superiority' was. I don't want to face this horrible experience again. SARH only? Yes, here the R-27ER exists.
Gonna be frank even though thats not my name but the only ARH missiles we should be seeing in SARH top tier are pheonixes and the dreaded fakours and that's it. new gen fox 3s should be completely separate. I'll keep saying it until they actually do it or someone makes a forum post that gains so much traction that another review bombing type community event happens. Someone should really get on that.
The “Pls sub UwU” was definitely not what I was expecting
It’s ironic
That's what they all say
I distinctly remember it being the GRIPEN that ruled top tier during those days. All sarhs, even the 27ER, were pretty mid during the age of 100m multipathing. The meta was 9M spam + infinite flares.
Jup griphen and f16s clowned on the su27 I owned all 3 and I prob flew my su27 a few times and never touched it again. Same with the new su27 russia has been shit last good plane was the mig 29
yeah they need to rebuff gripen it is sooo much better irl than they've made it
J-11B gonna go crazy when it comes…
China casuelly making the best flankers
Yessirr 😎 no more R77s finally gets the PL12s
@@thatoneguy1741 PL12, PL8B, new engines, lighter, a real radar, a real rwr, etc....
Germany: "Yeah, I'm sure the Su-27 has a lot of problems, the poor thing..."
I just got this plane, I loved it for the first 30 games. After the euphoria of starting your 13.0+ journey, you realize that Fox-3’s own that BR bracket and that you are useless until you close the gap with enemy Fox-3 users to 60,000 feet and less. In the pain of spading this jet, I have 3/4 of the SM researched. I hope that R-77’s will be fruitful 🙏.
But redditoids keep telling me that the Su27 is bias!
that's su-34
It is bias. It have pantsir inside the landing gear!!
DO COBRA!1!1!11!111!1
YES
Su30 and r77-1 need to come to the game
the M2 version atleast
Su30 reeks
@@kizvy what are u on abt?
I would like to see the MiG-35 first
@@interpl6089 yea at least the M2, the SM is a little too advanced for now I feel like it would be fair to add it mid next year with the rafale M, F2A, Gripen E, F15E with AESA, maybe a Hal Tejas
R-77s are absolute trash. They can’t even make 20km shots.
Remember, according to Gaijin this aircraft (and the F-15A) is an equal equivalent to the F-14B, which only gets aim-9L's
You’re forgetting that it also has fox 3s and unlimited countermeasures though
@SeekerHead problem is the Pheonix is ass. Pulls less G's then a aim-9d/g/h and everyone and their mother dodges it because it's really easy to. The Fakour-90 is a million times better with its insane acceleration and 20 g's of maneuverability, it's an absolute menace. Meanwhile the B is firing slightly better aim-54a's at Su-27's and many other skilled players who have been dodging it for an entire year. It doesn't matter if your doing mach 1.3 at 20K feet or higher, you just don't get kills. Being at 13.0 turns it into a budget F-15A with aim-9L's.
Using radar lock and send r27et should be an advance tactic for su27 ，very useful and always works
The title of this video is going to ruffle some feathers
And I wonder how many people will comment about it without watching or listening to anything
Edit: I’ve since changed the title in hopes it does better
@ that too lol
Edit: yeah that’ll do it lol
I tried to play the F16 ADF a 12.7 and 9 out of 10 games were in 13.7
VERY short rule it was, after 1 month its FM was nerfed further and everyone got used to it, and after summer it was plunged into abyss
The Su-27 never ruled at all, unless perhaps if you count its dev server flight model. For all the screeching about the superiority of the 27ER, all SARHs were very mid back during the day of 100m multipathing. The king of the meta was unquestionably the Gripen and the most meta missile at the time was the AIM-9M.
I played a lot with RU toptier and it's seriously behind most of the nations. And here i want to say i also have other top tiers(USA, GER, CHN, doing JAP), R-77 is fine now the problem with russia is flight model and "old" planes. Russian just need new aircraft and fix FM to be compatetive with others.
Putting here germany is criminal
Germany does not even have a "Top".
R-77s are also the problem. Their FM is fucked to the point its basically a R-73 with radar guidance. It should be able to hit targets at 40km in a head-on when launched at mach 0.9. it can't. It falls off about 10-15 kilometers short.
Talking about war thunder, or real life?
@@jankolafa3901 Using Gaijins retarded logic germany DOESN'T HAVE any toptier jet. Why? Because gaijin said they will not add any toptier premium, sooooo after F-4F ICE droped to 13.0(the same BR as new premium Viggen) germany simply doesn't have any toptier jet.
Can we just go back to MiG29 F16 era
To clarify, before the IRCCM missiles. MiG29 9-12 and F16A
I agree! I un-ironically miss flying my f4ej-Kai during that time.
That era had it's own problems
R27ET/R27ER which were faster and had a longer range than aim7m/aim7f
@@meki___6881 true, but imo it still felt like less of a clusterfak than now
Pls review the f16a the one with only 6 9ls
So ironic to start with UwU XD
Still love your vids tho
keep it up man
I wish there was a hard cap at top tier where ARH planes only fight other ARH planes. It would make SARH planes more viable again, and imo help the game be a lil more balanced. Also, they should exchange the MiG-29s (except for the SMT and G) R-27ERs for R-73s as the base MiGs never carried the ER variant until the 9-13S, i believe
Germany never bought R-27ER or ET, if they modeled the MiG-29 in accurately there'd be no purpose for the MiG-29G. And plain MiG-29s actually could carry ER's with a software upgrade independent of the 9-13S upgrade package. Also gaijin shouldve added the 9.18 instead of 9.19 so that russia can get a 9.12 airframe too.
This video saved my DDD-streak
I'm waiting for the SU-35 to be added in the future
hoping the j11b gets a better rwr, and with the pl-12 is gonna be pretty nice
The su27 is not good in the dogfight at all and i fly both country´s jets and more. Alltho i have to say it can pull good manuvers with it i full controll but for the average russian player its too hard to time it so it doesnt backfire on you. If you manage to get in a onecircle the flanker series can be very devestating, but like said takes a lot of skill to do it effectively.
US mains will still say the su27 is better than the F15 though, it's just how US mains work, they think a biplane will out perform their f15 and it needs to be buffed, it is the plague that is the US player base
Prepare for a joke of su-33 on 13.3
Tbh there would be no reason for it to have a higher BR than the Su-27, it's almost the same plane. You'd get 2 more R-27s and slightly worse T/W ratio, and that's it.
i hope that one day we will get multipathing back to 100 m so we dont need to became submarines to avoid bullshti 120s who can track u at any alt u fly. i died to it flying at 4m
I think 100m is still to high, I think making it 75m would be good, they also need to fix it some missiles stop acting like FAB-5000s when they hit the ground under you
About the thumbnail... I mean to the vasy majority of WT player if you do any acrbatic manuver they have that reaction no matter how basic it is... Like I had a coverstauion with a guy on discord about the fact WT is a flight sim so IRKL mavovers are a thing in it like the vast majority of fklight sims no matter how acrate or how much sim daata they have... And this guy could not understand why anyone whould inmalmen in WT and he thought it wouldbe so niche he wanted me to describe what figjht it could be used for... When I use inmamlwemens the the revsre form to just turn around as it grants me mmuch more visibly in all flightsims which is somthing I made a habit of in Ace combat 4 around it's realse and have used it to much success sense including in WT and DCS world... As unlike a hoerzonale turn a vertical trun can weasly change you altude and can be used to great wefgfect in confined places you normally see in Flight sims like mountins, canyons and dense big cities... Also the guy brought up montum but it doesn't matter unless your plane is extermy slow and has a terivle climb or dive rate or can't take any gs at all... Which in WT momentum is not really a factor as all WT modes have a heavy top cap that will instant kill your polane if reached... So uin WT momentum is mostrly a thing in a rate fight. which in a rando match you'll never npormally see... Unlike horizonal rolling scisors which is insaly common in all WT modes despite being rare IRL... So if you are a rolling sisors enjorier WT is by far the best way to see one and get in one... Which oddly rolling sisors isn't a thing in DCS world or AC7... So yeah the meme of people freakin out over someone doing a one of the many conbra manuvers that exsist today really isn't a thing in WT as WT players freak out over any manuver but horizonal rolling sicors....
Amraams almost need a separate matchmaker. I don't think BRs would actually fix the issue this time
Any other nations except USSR and China said exactly same when the 'R-27ER Superiority'(=Air Superiority~Alpha Strike) came before... and Gaijin never changed it. We can't expect special case for them sadly.
Still worlds better than Gripen A
Russia ground rb : Russian bias
Russia air rb : russia suffers
Bro I just got this and I only play air sim I kid you not I need a second person just to survive
21 sec. no views, what happend
fall off crazy fr
Pls play the F-16A. This is the saddest plane in top tier now. 95% uptier, where you cannot earn any RP. Constant 13.7 without any IRCCM missiles or any radar missiles, simply unplayable
Flanker FM aint even that bad, im only flying the objectively worst ones, the J11 and J11A and i find them to be just fine, perfectly serviciable, just dont dogfight the block 10 f16's and you're golden
Broski, how are you going to listen to a bunch of the best duelists in game unanimously agree that the Flanker has the worst top tier flight model for dueling, and then ignore them?
still disagree that 73 is awesome. it's real deadly range at non-blind enemies is about 1-1.5 km, while thrust vectoring does a lot of weird stuff in maneuvers on low speed. overall missiles really carry out Soviet tops, no sheet
Idk, I generally one flare them pretty commonly.
Although for some reason my aim9m’s are practically ignored and lose track, yet when I get an aim9M shot at me they’re inflatable lol
R73s are the best dog fight missiles but in anything other then knife fights id rather an aim-9m or magic-2
@@christopherchartier3017 9m are pretty tricky tbh. i tested them a bit in custom training, need some skill and practice to react
Had some Andys on Reddit try to tell me this thing has been ass since its release.
Fair argument seek
Buff F-15E engines
What no 😭
don't worry Italy Britain France and Germany will all be getting buffed as mentioned with the EF2000 and Rafale coming
im pretty sure the f15e is too fat to actually kill the flanker with the new instuctor, only thing he can do is go vertical which the f15e is very good at but then youll be showing your ass to the flanker and we all know how that would end up
nope, watch the video i referenced
I just want them to fix the damn radar, and for su27s to go 13.0 in air sim. but i wouldnt say no to a r77-1 or r77m which is quite deadly, aim-120 is just currently like fakour 90 at higher tier that you can launch at multiple enemies from safe range and get a couple of kills, maybe thats why f15/f16 players cant even win a dogfight against su27 currently. well thats what grinding a tech tree by bombing bases will teach ya. 😂
Russians coping with amraams...
russia are coping with literally every other fox-3, R-77 is so dog shit compared to every other fox-3
This is funny that every other nation except USSR&China exactly 'coped' in the crazy R-27ER Superiority by Su-27 at first half of 2024. And the time changed, its their turn, they started coping harder than any others. 😂
This is my opinion people don’t come after me OK an su27 minimum fuel in simulator is going to beat that f15 every time and a f16 but only at minimum fuel
idfk why they're still pitting SARH planes against fox3s. bring in 14.3 already
I cant lie, If you fly with caution but with intent to kill, and take the chances to kill with the hmd r27ers, lord is this plane good, ive been able to maintain 4kills+ per game with this beast
thunderskill profile or didn't happen
@@interpl6089Getting 4kills in an aircraft with 10 great missiles is not a big deal if you know how to use your missiles properly. Also nobody needs to prove anything to you. You're just a dude on the internet.
@@conflictclipsngl consistent 4kd in the fox3 meta while getting uptier every match is something
@@conflictclipsTheres not a single person on the Air RB leader boards right now who's averaging above 4 kills per battle lmao. Only around 600 are averaging more than 2 kills per battle. The man himself, Defyn, maintained around 3 kills per battle average with the SU27 back when it could actually be argued to be one of the top dogs.
Yeah, it's just a silly comment on the internet, but the guy is also blatantly lying 🤷♂️
@@cagingskies9584 really? then I must be in the top 1000 lmao. Gotta check. I think it's not that hard just proper positioning and learning when to use your missiles.
I love this plane so much, it's one of my most played planes, but it's sooo inconsistent because of the matchmaker. In a down tier I can consistently get 4-5 kills, but I struggle to get 1-2 kills in an uptier
Why did bro change the title 😭
Video performance
@@SeekerHead Fair enough
@@R4FSAN what was the og title
@@seductive_fishstick8961 something like "Russians cope about Aim120", even tho bro only talked about how Su27 is underperforming. I guess title was bait since otherwise ppl won't be interested in watching a vid about a russian jet. And as a Russia main, it deff worked on me 💀💀💀
But as long as it spreads awareness about this goofy jet, I'm chill with it
I made, and won 1v1 against F-16C.
That is not becouse I'm good at It, it's just that people in this game are really stoopid, becouse they think they are good becouse they can't see how bad they really are.
BE HUMBLE
it still rules top tier overpowered ass r77 50g missiles dont belong in the game yet, especially until any nato jets get any asraams.
neat
None Fox 3 should not be fighting against Fox 3
man no views i just saw so fire bro (first 🤓🤓)
Yes I subbed UwU
Nice bait and switch title.
Title switching is a tactic to try to boost video performance.
its reign ended about half a year ago.. miss it so much
It never ''reigned'' superior to anything. F-15A outclassed it hard as i remember.
@@interpl6089 nah man the Su-27s was insane before fox-3, R-27ER made it much better then the F-15A
@@seductive_fishstick8961 You're misremembering. All SARHs were mid as hell in an environment with 100m multipathing. The meta king was the Gripen by a tremendous margin, and the most meta missile was the AIM-9M
@@GeneralArmchair yeah I still completely disagree. R-27ER was insane if you used your brain
@@seductive_fishstick8961exactly! Multipath alt doesn’t matter much when the missile is coming from top down
First Viewer And First Comment and Like !!!!!!
are u really complaining that russian bias is to low?
Add ukrainian su27 with Aim120
lul. imagine how much nuclear triggering will happen at both sides if it gets added to RUSSIAN tech tree
@@raketny_hvosterm actually its called "USSR" 👆🤓
@@dsg4500and Ukraine was part of the USSR.
@@TheArbiter1721 it could be added but, there would be a lot of backlash for an american missile to be in the ussr techtree, imagine if the iranian f14 went to ussr and not usa
@@dsg4500 yet US has russian missiles
I want to play top tier but no AMRAAMs so they should make the br where jets with AMRAAMs can’t fight any jet below 13.3 except for the av8b and f4f
Kinda ridiculous the ER was the best for a while, and never added any other missiles buff's.
amraam is the best rn ;D, guess they could have their moment until gaijin implement whatever bs missile next
@@GanyusSimp thats false lol, mica em is by far the best f3
Bro think the Su-27 would lose a dog fight to the F-15C and F-15E
it would IRL by a lot
Speaking in war thunder, yes, and it does.
@@SeekerHead You're wrong
@@SeekerHead Or maybe you just hater of flanker
Do you even play the game?
Pls unblock me from generall lees stream chat
Only 24 hours
Ngl, but I was in an air sim battle last night on a team of nothing but gripens and F15C/Es. . .
There's this dude in an SU27SM who starts babbling in chat, saying that he hates US planes. *"Maybe if the us was smart, they would build something other than dumb missile slingers!"* and crap like that (meanwhile) we had like 8 dudes on our team with one guy who had 10 kills and like less than 5 for the rest. . .
But this SU27SM dude (on a team of 3) had TWENTY NINE AIR KILLS IN UNDER AN HOUR 😂 like bro. . . He even had the gaul to say that people on my team were pussy chickenshits because they stopped crossing the front line border!!! 🤣
(We still won btw lol)
Soviet jets having any sort of HMD is just laughable, yes they were some soviet projects, but later on it has just somehow disappeared off to Narnia. Like currently su-34 don't have any form of hmd, and there is no solid proof of su-35 or even 57 having them (neither does mig-31). But gajin just imagined all of this out of thin air like 2s38, beautiful and balanced
Why won’t they have hmd? It’s in the manuals they have hmd
Are you high? The Soviets were literally the pioneers of hmd and had it back in the 80’s. The r-73 was specifically made to be used with hmd. The shchel-3UM was this set and it came with su-27’s and MiG-29’s off the assembly lines. After German reunification the combination of the 2 systems scared the west into developing their own hmd and thrust vectoring missiles. Stop spreading misinformation.
Bro what school you go to?
I need whatever this guy is on ASAP😂. As the guy above said the R-73 was literally designed around the HMS. Same with the RWR the Spo-15 was the first RWR to utilize signal strength to measure range and could tell whether the signal was above you or bellow, yet it had non of that and only recently got modeled this patch.
Did you learn history from mcdonalds icecream machine?
hahah seek your noob I did Copra and r73 2 flying by f15 while laughing in Mavrick's voice and saying sigma alpha 😎🤌🏽🙏🏽