Is Liberalism Doomed?

Keynote Dialogue: Is Liberalism Doomed?
Ross Douthat, Michelle Goldberg
moderated by Ryan Streeter
Civil Discord
March 22, 2024
Etter-Harbin Almuni Center
liberalarts.ut...
This dialogue was part of the 2024 Civil Discord Symposium at The University of Texas at Austin, cohosted by UT's College of Liberal Arts, UT's Civitas Institute, and the University of Austin.

[@karennorris7880]

Awesome discussion!

[@SvenErik_Lindstrom3]

Yes

[@l3eatalphal3eatalpha]

Thumbnail says no.

[@RobertZemeckis2025]

full of lefty talking points

[@harryschiller5368]

No surprise, Ross was right about everything and Goldberg was wrong. She is useless and Ross is very bright!

[@mkatzfive5]

there are issues where local majority rule produces terrible results, e.g. segregation would still be practiced in the south; discrimination in employment, voting and commerce would still be legal.
Majority rule has to be balanced against minority protections.

[@williammcenaney1331]

"American conservatism" is oxymoronic because American conservatives conserve Locke's classical liberalism.

[@Uncannysius2023]

That’s an ahistoric and hyper simplified way of seeing American conservativism. Read Russell Kirk, read John Adams, read Edmund Burke, and not of them are lockeansin any strict sense. Locke did not believe in organic society or express any real believe in natural hierarchy (though he was anti-atheist, conveniently forgotten these days).

[@williammcenaney1331]

I have read Kirk. But Patrick Deneen may agree with me when he writes, "In fundamental respects, then, American conservatism--as a form of liberalism--was effectively a progressive philosophy that urged a slower pace of change in the social domain, often stating its commitment to various social conservative positions. Yet such a stance also entailed gradual modification of as liberal norms advanced, as exemplified in the abandonment of conservatism's onetime opposition to no-fault divorce, which ceased to be a conservative tenet when, under the logic of liberal principles, the practice became widely accepted as a basic feature of the liberal regime. Today--with a sizable number of Republican politicians voting in favor of the legislative codification of the Supreme Court's decision to require all states to recognize marriage between homosexuals--the goalposts again seem to have moved as a reflection not only of changed public opinion but also the underlying basis of American conservatism" (Deneen 67).
Now you know partly why I traded American conservatism for monarchism and North American High Toryism. I suggest that many American conservative congressmen sometimes approach the political left when they compromise with congressmen on that side of the political spectrum. Expediency can change a politician's opinions when he wants to keep his job.
Denee, Patrick J. "Regime Change: Toward a Postliberal Future." New York: Sentinel, 2023.

[@williammcenaney1331]

@@Uncannysius2023 I have read Kirk. But Patrick Deneen may agree with me when he writes, "In fundamental respects, then, American conservatism--as a form of liberalism--was effectively a progressive philosophy that urged a slower pace of change in the social domain, often stating its commitment to various social conservative positions. Yet such a stance also entailed gradual modification of as liberal norms advanced, as exemplified in the abandonment of conservatism's onetime opposition to no-fault divorce, which ceased to be a conservative tenet when, under the logic of liberal principles, the practice became widely accepted as a basic feature of the liberal regime. Today--with a sizable number of Republican politicians voting in favor of the legislative codification of the Supreme Court's decision to require all states to recognize marriage between homosexuals--the goalposts again seem to have moved as a reflection not only of changed public opinion but also the underlying basis of American conservatism" (Deneen 67).
Now you know partly why I traded American conservatism for monarchism and North American High Toryism. I suggest that many American conservative congressmen sometimes approach the political left when they compromise with congressmen on that side of the political spectrum. Expediency can change a politician's opinions when he wants to keep his job.
Denee, Patrick J. "Regime Change: Toward a Postliberal Future." New York: Sentinel, 2023.

[@williammcenaney1331]

@@Uncannysius2023 Please read page 67 in Patrick Deneen's book "Regime Change: Toward a Postliberal Future" because he may agree with me.

[@FullmetalSP1]

Ahh, Ross. The man who cannot rank and grade the last four presidents. The sharpest writer at NYT.