I was glad when I first heard of the news that the good and holy Pope Benedict VI had given the Ordinariate to the Anglican Church and consequent upon which many Anglicans are now in full communion with Rome. At this time in History when we have so much confusion in the world and the fear that the world is hurtling down the path of self-destruction, I think particularly of the great role that England and, by historical extension, the whole of the United Kingdom, had played on the world stage, it would be a very significant for the Ordinariate to be the catalyst for change to help bring many more of their Anglican brethren who are in the UK to come home into the Catholic Church. They could do a great service to the historical Church of England if the whole Ordinariate would pledge to pray conscientiously everyday for King Charles and the whole of the British Monarchy back into Catholicism. With that they would reverse the errors made by King Henry VIII and, God willing and our fervent faith in Him, that could happen. This would be momentous and the effects could be a tsunami to help solve the many of the current threats to that great and blessed Nation. God will certainly not abandon those who call upon Him and trust in His Divine assistance. I truly believe and it can be a possibility. God bless us all.
As a member of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter in the U.S. and Canada, I wholeheartedly concur, and make an effort to pray for the British Monarch and the entire Royal Family to return to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
As a former UK Anglican brought up on the Book of Common Prayer I missed the beauty of its language, and most particularly the Coverdale psalter, when I converted to the Church of Rome and I couldn’t agree more with Monsignor Keith in that in saying the Daily Office of the Ordinariate I have fallen in love with its riches all over again and it is immeasurably enriching my spiritual life.
As another commenter mentioned, I think if you guys can, you should keep posting content. I first found this channel by watching the Ordinariate Mass, and it lead me to the Anglican tradition. Fell in love, unfortunately there’s not one church near me though. By continuing to make content this wonderful tradition can spread
If you believe life matters, as your handle indicates, you'll love some of Mgr Newton's comments about prolife witness later on in the full interview! Stay tuned...
@@AnglicanorumCoetibusSociety Praise God! I will totally stay tuned! I find the Anglican Ordinariate fascinating. Converted from Protestantism 2 years ago. Ave Maria! God bless you guys for the pro-life witness!
Yes! I have an agnostic friend, I explained about the Ordinariate. He said 'so as Anglicans they acted like Catholics now as Catholics they act like Anglicans'. exactly!
Anglicans who never used the Book of Common Prayer now (in effect) use it as Roman Catholics, not sure how really keen on it they are. I would say - from personal experience - that the majority of Ordinariate much prefer the standard Roman rite or the Traditional Latin Mass to the Ordinariate Liturgy.
That's rather obviously untrue. If anyone prefers the Roman rite, whether in its old form or its new form, they are able to attend it whenever they want. If they belong to the ordinariate it's because they value their Anglican patrimony, common identity, or continued community in some way. Also, most ordinariate members worldwide had some experience of the BCP, as Mgr Newton indicates was the case in his youth, and many of us used exclusively the BCP throughout our lives as Anglicans.
@@clivedytor2069 I would agree with you as regards the BCP Lord's Supper liturgy. Epecially in its most Protestant form of 1552, that service is anti-sacrificial and anti-transubstantiation. That was regrettably preserved in the text of 1662, after the Restoration. The prayer of oblation happens after communion, not in the context of the consecration. Yes, as against the Catholic Church, the BCP feels very Protestant. As against the radical Puritans, it seems very Catholic. The BCP can be seen either way. As a Catholic, I read Richard Hooker's defense of the Prayer Book against the Puritans and, to my delight, thought I was reading a contemporary Catholic apologist against the destructive trends of the last 60 years among Catholics. Even in the 16th century, Hooker was noticed by Cardinal Allen in Rome, who apparently brought Hooker's writing to the reigning Pope's attention. The Pope was much impressed. To defend its own position against radical Protestantism, the C of E had to reappropriate much of Catholic tradition, even despite its own aversion to Rome. However, the Prayer Book tradition is not fixed in its 16th century mode. Catholicizing trends in interpretation and praxis have existed since Archbishop Laud's time, through the Non-Jurors, and to the Tractarians and Anglo-Catholics. I think that, as early as Elizabeth I's reign, there were reunion proposals that would have allowed the retention of an emended Book of Common Prayer. The Holy See said Anglican orders were per se invalid, but it never said that the form of the Anglican Eucharistic rite was in itself incapable of a Catholic signification. A Prayer Book that reincorporated the Roman Canon and other approved Catholic Eucharistic Prayers would clearly be a Catholic rite. The Scottish and American Prayer Books reassembled a God-ward and ascending (i.e., sacrificial) Eucharistic Prayer, along with prayers for the dead and a low-key offertory. These are as much historical facts as are Cranmer's heresies. But the BCP's Eucharistic rite is not its only (or even most important) feature, for many Anglicans over the centuries. The most common form of worship in Anglican parishes has often been Morning Prayer and Litany and sermon, rather than Holy Communion; and also Evensong. These offices are of Catholic and monastic derivation and would actually fit easily into Catholic unity. Fr Philip Hughes (despite his deep aversion to Cranmer himself) paid tribute in his "Popular History of the Reformation" to the beauty of the Prayer Book's daily offices and pointed out that it owed much to Catholic reform proposals, such as that of Cardinal Quinones's revised Roman breviary. Is it not likely that the Holy Spirit has led Anglicans of good will gradually in a Catholic direction? And wouldn't it be un-generous to refuse to acknowledge this and to find a place for such a fine heritage within Catholic unity, when the errors and dilutions have been left behind?
@@PaterIgnotus yes I agree that anything leading non Catholics to the Church is to be welcomed. There is one problem with your clever and elegant rationale of post 16 th C Anglican liturgy. The clergy celebrating it are not Catholic sacrificing priests. Yes, I have no problem in saying they are Anglican priests but we all know that the word “ priest” means three different things to three Anglicans. My C of E friends are fine Anglican “ priests” but they are not Catholic priests because the mind of their community is not consistent on their being a Catholic priest. I do not doubt sincerity, godliness, decency and all things nice…but let’s be honest. One Anglican “ bishop” will have a very different view of what he is doing to another at ordination.
@@clivedytor2069 All very true. Anglicans like Dom Gregory Dix and E.L. Mascall affirmed everything taught by Trent and St Thomas about the Mass and the priesthood, and evangelical Anglicans like John Stott and J.I. Packer emphatically denied those same doctrines. The C of E is certainly Janus-like. But if defect of form and defect of intention are rectified, and valid ordination to the sacrificing priesthood received, then there is no reason to refuse to welcome other aspects of Anglican piety that are Catholic-compatible and that are actually derived from Catholic sources (such as Morning and Evening Prayer in the BCP, sacred music, etc.). Much of what I learned about Catholic liturgy came from the Anglo-Catholic Gregory Dix, during a period when my own Catholic Church was trying to memory-hole the entire Catholic liturgical tradition. I'm afraid that I grew up in an Orwellian period in the 1970s Catholic Church, so I'm grateful to the Anglo-Catholics, despite the fact that their position is ultimately untenable without Catholic unity and orders. Also, the Anglo-Catholic apologetic toward Protestant objections is particularly valuable because it was often the work of men who came from an evangelical background themselves (as was the case with Newman, Faber, Manning, the Wilberforces, and later Ronald Knox). They knew how to answer the evangelicals intelligently because they knew them from within, in a way that most cradle Catholics don't. With so many losses in Latin America and elsewhere to aggressive Protestantism, this still has great value. From what I have seen, parishes like Our Lady of the Atonement in Texas are attracting many Catholics who have no personal connection to Anglicanism but find the liturgy and community and pastoral care there very appealing. The Anglican ministry, at its best, does have a genuinely pastoral spirit and a high valuation of preaching. Those also are very valuable in a Catholic setting.
What is the green book, under Customary of Our Lady of Walsingham, called? Edit: Also, I read so many comments, accusing or trying to diminish, discourage... I see the Ordinariates as a visible sign of God's love and presence at this very moment and age. Gifting the whole Church with a treasure that lived for about 5 centuries. And it is the first, to make the move, which others will likely follow. (Other denominations, for example: Lutherans)
@@christophermahon5490 Thank you! I added it to my wishlist. I love hymns and hope to learn to sing them someday. "Just as I am, without one plea" is my favourite so far.
Not sure that it is! I have an agnostic friend, I explained about the Ordinariate. He said; 'so as Anglicans they acted like Catholics now as Catholics they act like Anglicans'.
Can someone here give me a resource for Lutherans to become Catholic. Something that helped anyone here to convert but maybe if they arent quite ready for total admonition or Francis de Sales?
These aren't Lutheran-specific authors, but I found them extremely helpful when I was crossing the Tiber, both before and after. Highly recommend these guys since they're familiar with Protestantism or provide a fresh perspective on the Christian faith: Scott Hahn, John Bergsma, Brant Pitre, Roy Schoeman, Joseph Ratzinger...
Fr Louis Bouyer is excellent. He was himself originally a French Lutheran pastor and theologian who became Catholic. He wrote a very insightful book called "The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism," which showed how everything that it best and most Christian in Protestantism must return to Catholic unity if it is to endure and to bear fruit. It's not direclty autobiographical, but it is implicitly so, as it gives us an idea of how Bouyer followed a Newman-type path into the Catholic Church. I think it's in print. The late Fr Richard John Neuhaus was a Lutheran pastor for many years before becoming a Catholic. He wrote a book called "The Catholic Moment", before his actual reception into the Catholic Church, in which he made the point that Lutheranism was never meant to be a stand-on-its-own thing but rather a reforming movement in and for the one Catholic Church. That is, after all, what the Augsburg Confession officially claimed, and that is an authoritative confession of faith for Lutherans. After writing "The Catholic Moment," Pastor Neuhaus said he could no longer give a convincing reason for not entering into Catholic unity. This book may not be in print, but it can be found used or through a library. I recently read Robert C. Koons' "A Lutheran's Case for Roman Catholicism: Finding A Lost Path Home." It was very good, too.
Fr Louis Bouyer was a French Lutheran pastor and theologian. He wrote "The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism," in which, after his own Catholic conversion, he made the case that everything truly Christian that is in Protestantism needs to be brought back into Catholic unity, in order to survive and to bear fruit. Also, Fr Richard John Neuhaus was a Lutheran pastor for many years and wrote "The Catholic Moment," making a similar case. Shortly after writing that, he was himself received into the Catholic Church. Robert C. Koons wrote "A Lutheran's Case for Roman Catholicism: Finding a Lost Path Home," along the same lines.
I heard Bishop Steven J. Lopes, Bishop of the Ordinariate here in the U.S. and Canada, explain that there was a liturgical form granted for groups of Swedish Lutherans to unite with Rome. I do not know the specifics. Bishop Lopes was instrumental in the creation of the Divine Worship Mass while serving at the Vatican. Later, he was appointed and ordained as Bishop of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. He based the Mass for the Ordinariates upon the Sarum Mass of Salisbury Cathedral, which certainly predates the liturgy concocted for the Anglican Communion.
@@stephenscull901 Yes, the Church of Sweden is like the Church of England in some ways, having an episcopal structure. As regards externals, the Swedish Lutherans retained Catholic priestly vestments and crucifixes and other iconography. There was even a Catholicizing movement in the late 16th century toward reunion under King John III and his Polish Catholic wife. The King approved the famous Red Book, a liturgy that was substantially Catholic. So there are parallels with the situation in England under Charles I and Archbishop Laud. The Swedish High Church movement has already laid much of the groundwork for Catholic reunion, among Swedish Christians who have retained belief in the Creed and the Bible. There's a former Swedish pastor, Ulf Ekman, Lutheran and then free church, who has an amazing testimony regarding his Catholic conversion and that of his wife. I think we need to remember that the Catholic Reformation (a better term than Counter Reformation) was not purely reactive and that it did not reject things that were good and fruitful, simply because the Protestants also said or did them. Cardinal Pole, when he assisted Queen Mary in reconciling England with the Holy See, was very conciliatory and retained many reforms from the two previous reigns that were compatible with Catholic faith and unity. Cardinal Pole wasn't compromising the faith: he was rebuilding and restoring. These outreaches to Anglicans and Lutherans who wish to enter Catholic unity are very much in the spirit of Cardinal Pole and of others like him.
Be careful…there is an Englishness that is a little sniffy about “ foreign” muck…when I hear talk about “ The Church of Rome…” it rings alarm bells. Many of us just became Catholics without any need for propping up with old fashioned language.
The English Anglo-Catholics actually respected the Church of Rome so much they started doing everything the Roman way. Now that we have the ordinariate, why wouldn't we cherish, preserve, and share the Anglican tradition that is unique to us? This kind of diversity is actually a proper characteristic of the one, universal, Catholic Church. The good Monsignor isn't being 'sniffy' at all, he's talking about appreciating the good aspects of your own heritage.
@@christophermahon5490 I don’t denigrate the motives of the Ordinariate people but where is it going? Lots of retired clergy very few new and young people. Congregations are gradually shrinking through death. An enormous amount of scholarship has gone into this heritage project but it has no legs!
@@clivedytor2069 That is completely false. First of all, we have no more nearly-retired clergy than we did on day 1. Many of our congregations are growing and getting younger, and the ordinariates are growing overall. Our families are having children and we are continually receiving new people into the Church and into our communities. We also have an extraordinarily high vocations rate across both the UK and North American ordinariates. The picture you've painted is complete fiction.
This absolutely warms my heart 🙏🏻🥹❤️🔥🏴
I was glad when I first heard of the news that the good and holy Pope Benedict VI had given the Ordinariate to the Anglican Church and consequent upon which many Anglicans are now in full communion with Rome.
At this time in History when we have so much confusion in the world and the fear that the world is hurtling down the path of self-destruction, I think particularly of the great role that England and, by historical extension, the whole of the United Kingdom, had played on the world stage, it would be a very significant for the Ordinariate to be the catalyst for change to help bring many more of their Anglican brethren who are in the UK to come home into the Catholic Church. They could do a great service to the historical Church of England if the whole Ordinariate would pledge to pray conscientiously everyday for King Charles and the whole of the British Monarchy back into Catholicism. With that they would reverse the errors made by King Henry VIII and, God willing and our fervent faith in Him, that could happen. This would be momentous and the effects could be a tsunami to help solve the many of the current threats to that great and blessed Nation.
God will certainly not abandon those who call upon Him and trust in His Divine assistance.
I truly believe and it can be a possibility.
God bless us all.
👍👍👍 Well said.
As a member of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter in the U.S. and Canada, I wholeheartedly concur, and make an effort to pray for the British Monarch and the entire Royal Family to return to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
It is indeed a treasure to be shared - join the Ordinariate now!
On a sidenote: you should issue many more videos and on a regular basis. It is a way of keeping in touch and it is a way of publicizing your goals.
Agreed. The work of the ACS could be much more well known through short pithy videos like this.
As a former UK Anglican brought up on the Book of Common Prayer I missed the beauty of its language, and most particularly the Coverdale psalter, when I converted to the Church of Rome and I couldn’t agree more with Monsignor Keith in that in saying the Daily Office of the Ordinariate I have fallen in love with its riches all over again and it is immeasurably enriching my spiritual life.
As another commenter mentioned, I think if you guys can, you should keep posting content. I first found this channel by watching the Ordinariate Mass, and it lead me to the Anglican tradition. Fell in love, unfortunately there’s not one church near me though. By continuing to make content this wonderful tradition can spread
Based
If you believe life matters, as your handle indicates, you'll love some of Mgr Newton's comments about prolife witness later on in the full interview! Stay tuned...
@@AnglicanorumCoetibusSociety Praise God! I will totally stay tuned! I find the Anglican Ordinariate fascinating. Converted from Protestantism 2 years ago. Ave Maria! God bless you guys for the pro-life witness!
So he went from Anglo-Catholic to Catholo-Anglican?
Yes! I have an agnostic friend, I explained about the Ordinariate. He said 'so as Anglicans they acted like Catholics now as Catholics they act like Anglicans'. exactly!
Anglicans who never used the Book of Common Prayer now (in effect) use it as Roman Catholics, not sure how really keen on it they are. I would say - from personal experience - that the majority of Ordinariate much prefer the standard Roman rite or the Traditional Latin Mass to the Ordinariate Liturgy.
That's rather obviously untrue. If anyone prefers the Roman rite, whether in its old form or its new form, they are able to attend it whenever they want. If they belong to the ordinariate it's because they value their Anglican patrimony, common identity, or continued community in some way. Also, most ordinariate members worldwide had some experience of the BCP, as Mgr Newton indicates was the case in his youth, and many of us used exclusively the BCP throughout our lives as Anglicans.
@@marcokite How could you have used the book intended to break the Catholic Church, rip the seamless fabric of Christ, trash the Mass…?
@@clivedytor2069 I would agree with you as regards the BCP Lord's Supper liturgy. Epecially in its most Protestant form of 1552, that service is anti-sacrificial and anti-transubstantiation. That was regrettably preserved in the text of 1662, after the Restoration. The prayer of oblation happens after communion, not in the context of the consecration.
Yes, as against the Catholic Church, the BCP feels very Protestant. As against the radical Puritans, it seems very Catholic. The BCP can be seen either way. As a Catholic, I read Richard Hooker's defense of the Prayer Book against the Puritans and, to my delight, thought I was reading a contemporary Catholic apologist against the destructive trends of the last 60 years among Catholics. Even in the 16th century, Hooker was noticed by Cardinal Allen in Rome, who apparently brought Hooker's writing to the reigning Pope's attention. The Pope was much impressed. To defend its own position against radical Protestantism, the C of E had to reappropriate much of Catholic tradition, even despite its own aversion to Rome.
However, the Prayer Book tradition is not fixed in its 16th century mode. Catholicizing trends in interpretation and praxis have existed since Archbishop Laud's time, through the Non-Jurors, and to the Tractarians and Anglo-Catholics. I think that, as early as Elizabeth I's reign, there were reunion proposals that would have allowed the retention of an emended Book of Common Prayer.
The Holy See said Anglican orders were per se invalid, but it never said that the form of the Anglican Eucharistic rite was in itself incapable of a Catholic signification. A Prayer Book that reincorporated the Roman Canon and other approved Catholic Eucharistic Prayers would clearly be a Catholic rite. The Scottish and American Prayer Books reassembled a God-ward and ascending (i.e., sacrificial) Eucharistic Prayer, along with prayers for the dead and a low-key offertory. These are as much historical facts as are Cranmer's heresies.
But the BCP's Eucharistic rite is not its only (or even most important) feature, for many Anglicans over the centuries. The most common form of worship in Anglican parishes has often been Morning Prayer and Litany and sermon, rather than Holy Communion; and also Evensong. These offices are of Catholic and monastic derivation and would actually fit easily into Catholic unity. Fr Philip Hughes (despite his deep aversion to Cranmer himself) paid tribute in his "Popular History of the Reformation" to the beauty of the Prayer Book's daily offices and pointed out that it owed much to Catholic reform proposals, such as that of Cardinal Quinones's revised Roman breviary.
Is it not likely that the Holy Spirit has led Anglicans of good will gradually in a Catholic direction? And wouldn't it be un-generous to refuse to acknowledge this and to find a place for such a fine heritage within Catholic unity, when the errors and dilutions have been left behind?
@@PaterIgnotus yes I agree that anything leading non Catholics to the Church is to be welcomed. There is one problem with your clever and elegant rationale of post 16 th C Anglican liturgy. The clergy celebrating it are not Catholic sacrificing priests. Yes, I have no problem in saying they are Anglican priests but we all know that the word “ priest” means three different things to three Anglicans. My C of E friends are fine Anglican “ priests” but they are not Catholic priests because the mind of their community is not consistent on their being a Catholic priest. I do not doubt sincerity, godliness, decency and all things nice…but let’s be honest. One Anglican “ bishop” will have a very different view of what he is doing to another at ordination.
@@clivedytor2069 All very true. Anglicans like Dom Gregory Dix and E.L. Mascall affirmed everything taught by Trent and St Thomas about the Mass and the priesthood, and evangelical Anglicans like John Stott and J.I. Packer emphatically denied those same doctrines. The C of E is certainly Janus-like.
But if defect of form and defect of intention are rectified, and valid ordination to the sacrificing priesthood received, then there is no reason to refuse to welcome other aspects of Anglican piety that are Catholic-compatible and that are actually derived from Catholic sources (such as Morning and Evening Prayer in the BCP, sacred music, etc.). Much of what I learned about Catholic liturgy came from the Anglo-Catholic Gregory Dix, during a period when my own Catholic Church was trying to memory-hole the entire Catholic liturgical tradition. I'm afraid that I grew up in an Orwellian period in the 1970s Catholic Church, so I'm grateful to the Anglo-Catholics, despite the fact that their position is ultimately untenable without Catholic unity and orders.
Also, the Anglo-Catholic apologetic toward Protestant objections is particularly valuable because it was often the work of men who came from an evangelical background themselves (as was the case with Newman, Faber, Manning, the Wilberforces, and later Ronald Knox). They knew how to answer the evangelicals intelligently because they knew them from within, in a way that most cradle Catholics don't. With so many losses in Latin America and elsewhere to aggressive Protestantism, this still has great value.
From what I have seen, parishes like Our Lady of the Atonement in Texas are attracting many Catholics who have no personal connection to Anglicanism but find the liturgy and community and pastoral care there very appealing. The Anglican ministry, at its best, does have a genuinely pastoral spirit and a high valuation of preaching. Those also are very valuable in a Catholic setting.
What is the green book, under Customary of Our Lady of Walsingham, called?
Edit: Also, I read so many comments, accusing or trying to diminish, discourage...
I see the Ordinariates as a visible sign of God's love and presence at this very moment and age. Gifting the whole Church with a treasure that lived for about 5 centuries. And it is the first, to make the move, which others will likely follow. (Other denominations, for example: Lutherans)
That green book is the New English Hymnal!
@@christophermahon5490 Thank you! I added it to my wishlist. I love hymns and hope to learn to sing them someday. "Just as I am, without one plea" is my favourite so far.
It is meet and right so to do
Not sure that it is! I have an agnostic friend, I explained about the Ordinariate. He said; 'so as Anglicans they acted like Catholics now as Catholics they act like Anglicans'.
@@marcokite why would you care what your agnostic friend would say?
Can someone here give me a resource for Lutherans to become Catholic. Something that helped anyone here to convert but maybe if they arent quite ready for total admonition or Francis de Sales?
These aren't Lutheran-specific authors, but I found them extremely helpful when I was crossing the Tiber, both before and after. Highly recommend these guys since they're familiar with Protestantism or provide a fresh perspective on the Christian faith:
Scott Hahn, John Bergsma, Brant Pitre, Roy Schoeman, Joseph Ratzinger...
Fr Louis Bouyer is excellent. He was himself originally a French Lutheran pastor and theologian who became Catholic. He wrote a very insightful book called "The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism," which showed how everything that it best and most Christian in Protestantism must return to Catholic unity if it is to endure and to bear fruit. It's not direclty autobiographical, but it is implicitly so, as it gives us an idea of how Bouyer followed a Newman-type path into the Catholic Church. I think it's in print.
The late Fr Richard John Neuhaus was a Lutheran pastor for many years before becoming a Catholic. He wrote a book called "The Catholic Moment", before his actual reception into the Catholic Church, in which he made the point that Lutheranism was never meant to be a stand-on-its-own thing but rather a reforming movement in and for the one Catholic Church. That is, after all, what the Augsburg Confession officially claimed, and that is an authoritative confession of faith for Lutherans. After writing "The Catholic Moment," Pastor Neuhaus said he could no longer give a convincing reason for not entering into Catholic unity. This book may not be in print, but it can be found used or through a library.
I recently read Robert C. Koons' "A Lutheran's Case for Roman Catholicism: Finding A Lost Path Home." It was very good, too.
Fr Louis Bouyer was a French Lutheran pastor and theologian. He wrote "The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism," in which, after his own Catholic conversion, he made the case that everything truly Christian that is in Protestantism needs to be brought back into Catholic unity, in order to survive and to bear fruit.
Also, Fr Richard John Neuhaus was a Lutheran pastor for many years and wrote "The Catholic Moment," making a similar case. Shortly after writing that, he was himself received into the Catholic Church.
Robert C. Koons wrote "A Lutheran's Case for Roman Catholicism: Finding a Lost Path Home," along the same lines.
I heard Bishop Steven J. Lopes, Bishop of the Ordinariate here in the U.S. and Canada, explain that there was a liturgical form granted for groups of Swedish Lutherans to unite with Rome. I do not know the specifics. Bishop Lopes was instrumental in the creation of the Divine Worship Mass while serving at the Vatican. Later, he was appointed and ordained as Bishop of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter. He based the Mass for the Ordinariates upon the Sarum Mass of Salisbury Cathedral, which certainly predates the liturgy concocted for the Anglican Communion.
@@stephenscull901 Yes, the Church of Sweden is like the Church of England in some ways, having an episcopal structure. As regards externals, the Swedish Lutherans retained Catholic priestly vestments and crucifixes and other iconography. There was even a Catholicizing movement in the late 16th century toward reunion under King John III and his Polish Catholic wife. The King approved the famous Red Book, a liturgy that was substantially Catholic. So there are parallels with the situation in England under Charles I and Archbishop Laud.
The Swedish High Church movement has already laid much of the groundwork for Catholic reunion, among Swedish Christians who have retained belief in the Creed and the Bible. There's a former Swedish pastor, Ulf Ekman, Lutheran and then free church, who has an amazing testimony regarding his Catholic conversion and that of his wife.
I think we need to remember that the Catholic Reformation (a better term than Counter Reformation) was not purely reactive and that it did not reject things that were good and fruitful, simply because the Protestants also said or did them. Cardinal Pole, when he assisted Queen Mary in reconciling England with the Holy See, was very conciliatory and retained many reforms from the two previous reigns that were compatible with Catholic faith and unity. Cardinal Pole wasn't compromising the faith: he was rebuilding and restoring. These outreaches to Anglicans and Lutherans who wish to enter Catholic unity are very much in the spirit of Cardinal Pole and of others like him.
Be careful…there is an Englishness that is a little sniffy about “ foreign” muck…when I hear talk about “ The Church of Rome…” it rings alarm bells. Many of us just became Catholics without any need for propping up with old fashioned language.
The English Anglo-Catholics actually respected the Church of Rome so much they started doing everything the Roman way. Now that we have the ordinariate, why wouldn't we cherish, preserve, and share the Anglican tradition that is unique to us? This kind of diversity is actually a proper characteristic of the one, universal, Catholic Church. The good Monsignor isn't being 'sniffy' at all, he's talking about appreciating the good aspects of your own heritage.
Why would anyone want to be more Anglican? Anglicanism was the result of a secular ruler taking 😊over the Church of God and corrupting it .
Take your tone policing somewhere else. And your own "sniffy" attitude.
@@christophermahon5490 I don’t denigrate the motives of the Ordinariate people but where is it going? Lots of retired clergy very few new and young people. Congregations are gradually shrinking through death. An enormous amount of scholarship has gone into this heritage project but it has no legs!
@@clivedytor2069 That is completely false. First of all, we have no more nearly-retired clergy than we did on day 1. Many of our congregations are growing and getting younger, and the ordinariates are growing overall. Our families are having children and we are continually receiving new people into the Church and into our communities. We also have an extraordinarily high vocations rate across both the UK and North American ordinariates. The picture you've painted is complete fiction.