The Battle for Athens (1944 - 45) - The Greek Civil War Starts
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- The Battle for Athens (1944-1945) is also known as the Dekemvriana (Δεκεμβριανά, or: December events). For Greece World War Two ended late 1944 when the Germans left the country. Soon the British arrived alongside the new Greek government: the Government of National Unity, led by Georgios Papandreou. By that time the pro-communist EAM/ELAS units had seized 90 per cent of the country. Negotiations between the new government and the EAM soon deadlocked and skirmishes broke out. Eventually the British would get the upper hand, but this here kicked off a full blown civil war, known as the Greek Civil War.
History Hustle presents: The Battle for Athens (1944-45) - The Greek Civil War Starts.
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SOURCES
- Greece. Biography of a Modern Nationa (Roderick Beaton).
- Struggle for Greece. 1941 - 1949 (C. M. Woodhouse).
- greekreporter.... (24-04-2022).
IMAGES
Images from commons.wikimedia.org.
VIDEO
Video material from:
• ΔΕΚΕΜΒΡΙΑΝΑ,(Civil War...
ΔΕΚΕΜΒΡΙΑΝΑ,(Civil War In Athens) - 1944
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MUSIC
"The Descent" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Want to ask me a question? Send me an email at: historyhustle[at]gmail.com
German Invasion of Greece:
ruclips.net/video/AZ_k5TMse6c/видео.html
Axis Occupation of Greece:
ruclips.net/video/RxaFsQmQogA/видео.html
What did the US Secretary of State mean by these 1944 words?
"This government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece."
- U.S State Department Foreign Relations Vol. VIII Washington D.C. Circular Airgram - 868.014/26 Dec. 1944
@user-ri6hm5kf2b " more Greeks wanted communism to prevail "
No. The majority of Greeks hated communism. Communism is not compatible with democracy. That's why communists were arrested or expelled for treason during the Greek civil war. Any Greek that shamelessly votes for a Marxist today (like Syriza, KKE and Mira25) is a fanatic..
@user-ri6hm5kf2b Stefan, as usual, "forgot" to mention back then most Skopians still mostly identified as Bulgarian "Macedonians". This 'minor' detail of history unfortunately keeps getting edited out by those that ridiculously recognized Skopians as "Macedonians". Instead they behave like Yugoslav communist ethnic engineers and lie about history vis-a-vis omission to hide their mistake of recognizing them.
@user-ri6hm5kf2b
I am as Greek as they come. Not a single non-Greek in my family lines as far back as a I can trace them.
"Greek" communists betray their own homeland and people for their transnational leftist ideology.. They are not an iota different than leftists in other countries. They speak for the leftist cult not Hellenism. The right fought for Hellenism not capitalism but the "Greek" left is too stupid and fanatical to understand.
@user-ri6hm5kf2b Golden Donkey are extremists... but so are Marxist fanatics that smear everyone not a far leftist extremist like themselves as "fascist".
As a Greek, I can say that these tragic events still haunt our society almost 80 years later. They left some pretty big wounds.
Also, the treatment of the country from the british like they were its colonial masters, didn't help things at all. Not of course that anyone would expect anything else.
The British of that era (and Americans) helped Greeks fight both fascists AND communists. For that we should be grateful. Unfortunately many of this generation of British decided to engage in ethnic engineering of Slavs into "Macedonians".. ironically behaving much like the communist ethnic engineers they once defended Greece from.. No one will confuse this current generation of Brits for philhellenes like Lord Byron. They can no longer even tell the difference between someone Macedonian and someone Slavic. it's not that surprising the UK itself is now having similar identity issues and can't agree on what is "real" Brtish and "real" English.. What goes around comes around as they say. .
@@mydogsbutler You are so funny. "The British came to help Greeks, fighting both Fascists and Communists"?!? EAM with the leadership of the Communist Party led the anti-occupational fight already since 1941 both in the mountains and in the urban centers. When the British Imperialist Empire moved into Athens as an occupational force, the Communist Party and EAM had one million members and the majority of the Greek people with them. This is objective historical fact. So, who did the British army helped bombing civilian neighborhoods in Athens and Piraeus and murdering thousands? The Greek royal family and the pre-war power holders to take their power back. And with the help of whom did the British win in the end, in Athens? With the help of all the Nazi collaborators and their paramilitary forces. Those who have guilty secrets better not talk today...
@@ΗλίαςΕυάγγελος
So what. Stalin fought Hitler too. Does this make Stalin less of a communist totalitarian thug? And it wasn't just leftist that fought Nazis like Greek lefitst foolishly imply to insinuate everyone not a leftist collaborated with Nazis.
And lets not forget some leftist also collaborated with Nazis. The Nazis didn't pick collaborators based on their politics but whomever they could exploit on individual level to control local populations.
Few collaborators anywhere in Europe were sympathetic to the Nazis. Most collaborated due to fear of reprisals. It's easy to virtue signal to pretend we would have all been brave partisans but when a Nazi has a gun to their head or threatened to murder their entire families....compliance was the norm not the exception
When it comes to the Greek civil war it was actually the Americans who saved Greece from the Iron Curtain with massive logistical support. Had communists won the cold war the entire world would be like North Korea today.
Alas today most "Greek" leftists hide their "heroes" committed treason during the civil war when they were murdering other Greeks for the sake of the USSR. totaltarian communism and irredentist Skopians. Instead they vote for Marxist Syriza that recognized irredentist Skopians as "Macedonians" in the hopes of government handouts. Shameless.
@@ΗλίαςΕυάγγελος Out of curiousity are you a communist? Why do you keep defending Greek leftist fifth columnists during the civil war? Do you approve of their treason?
@@mydogsbutler what? i had a stroke reading that.
i am Greek and due to my studies in European history, i have studied these events through both Greek academic history books and foreign (mostly British) academic books. there are obvious differences in how the events are described, and i have to worry about bias from certain British sources. In the events of the Dekemvriana, that are obviously very important in the Civil War, the report of demonstrators throwing grenades before the police opened fire on the crowd is disputed by some sources. what we know for sure, is that the police and British units used machine guns against the crowd. something you didnt mention and i think is important to note, is that on the next day, where there was a public funeral and demonstration for the civilian victims, the police and the British opened fire again on a huge crowd of peaceful civilians that were in the streets protesting the previous day's killings.
Από εκείνη την ημέρα (4/12) είναι και η περίφημη φωτογραφία με το πανό στο Σύνταγμα. Και παραμένει επίκαιρο. Εμείς, ο λαός, πρέπει να διαλέξουμε: ή τις αλυσίδες ή τα όπλα.
well said
very well said
Let him answer you, where does it come from that the demonstrators were armed on 3/12/1944 ???
The well-known lies that put fire and anger in the same cauldron, he has not told me in which books he writes about an armed crowd regarding the demonstration on 3/12/1944
Well done for bringing up the the point about machine guns. My aunt was one of those killed by a machine gun aimed at her by a British Soldier. They tried to justify this by saying it was in self defence as she was aiming a weapon, when in fact she was just carrying a flat. She was 24.
As a Greek i believe you should know something. Anything related to Greece from 1944 up to 1949 will probably turn the comment section in a battlefield bigger than Stalingrad and Okinawa combined. ***Upd i kicked the hornet's nest***
The comments might/probably will be worse. Might make interesting reading though. Cheers from Tennessee USA.
@@Hillbilly001 If enough Greeks find out of this channel/video it will
@@christossymA3A2 Oh, I'm sure. Civil Wars are very uncivil. I'm an American, born in the South. Had 5 kin fight in our Civil War. Both sides as a matter of fact. People hear my speech and assume I'm a Rebel because of it. I was born 100 years after it happened and have no dog in that hunt, as they say. But 150+ years after the fact, I hear it. Just a part of life I reckon. Cheers from Tennessee.
I totally agree. Generally civil wars are very messy and contentious. But there were some events during the Greek Civil War that are pretty brutal commited by both sides. There are some amazing documentaries available but this part is not taught in Greece since it got pretty ugly. Even more in the countryside and northern Greece, which I was from.
True that. The Greek left and anarchist like to go on and on about the Junta as if the moderate center right supported it. Meanwhile they are shamelessly voting for communist infested Syriza and KKE that supported recognition of Skopians... behavior not to unlike the Greek left during the civil war.
🇬🇷 It seems a war within a war. How tragic... Thanks for your nice videos, Stefan! By the way, I noticed that the Greek flag in the WW2 was different from the actual one. Obrigado! 🇧🇷
The official Greek flag until ww2 was a bue " box" with a white cross while the flag with the stripes was used as a marine time flag
After ww2 both was used interchangeably
Later after the royal family was expelled from the country 1967 the " marine time" one became the official one
But with a twist - dark blue stripes having to do with an old military tradition ect
After the collapse of the junta the blue lines became brighter 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Ευχαριστώ. Obrigado! ヽ(͡◕ ͜ʖ ͡◕)ﾉ 🍀 🇧🇷
@@marcoskehl παρακαλώ!, you welcome 😊
Greek here. Thank you for covering this period of our recent history. It's enraging how the state has covered up from its people these events. I mean schools avoid teaching youth about civil war. It's black spot in recent greek history. And is kind of Taboo from older people to speak about it. I still remember my Grandma's tears when she narrated to family the incidents she saw during the nazi occupation and the civil war.
Thanks for your reply.
Its not in the best interests of the current government to teach you that they came to power with the blessings of an imperial power, meaning that we will always be ruled as a western power colony unless we revolt (most probably causing another Civil War).
A small correction: when Papandreou and the Brits arrived in Greece, they just controlled Athens and Piraeus - and just the central parts of those, as the refugee (i.e. Greeks from Turkey who had arrived in 1922 after our defeat in the Turkish War of Independence) settlements in the periphery were communist strongholds. Salonica was under Eamic control until the Varkiza agreement :) not sure about Patras, but I think it was also under Eamic control. It was just the capital which was at stake.
Thank you so much for taking the time to visit our city and make this video!
Thanks for your reply.
True. ELAS was ordered not to march into Athens itself as they thought it could be seen as an act of aggression by the government in exile and possibly cause unwanted tension.
Thanks for all of your videos about Greece. Greetings from Cyprus
Cheers!
Even though Greece has seen quite a few moments of glory in the 20th century, such as the wins in the Balkan wars, WW1, the triumph against the Italians, the resistance against the Axis and subsequent win in WW2, the two most important events that still shape and influence greek society was the unlucky campaign in Minor Asia, and the Greek civil war, and the second has propably the most significant consequences that last till this day. The most obvious is that it was more disastrous in human and financial aspects than all of the other wars combined. At the time that all other allied nations were sitting at the winners table dividing the spoils of the victory, Greeks were busy fighting each other failing to capitalize on their massive effort fighting the axis. The whole Macedonian issue was a side effect of the civil war, as the province was promised to slav comrades willing to assist fighting on one side. At the same time the other side had to rely and become dependent on the Brittish and subsequently the Americans for support, at a time when they only had to celebrate being independent. There was a huge division of the society following the war, which led subsequently to the coup of 1967 that in turn led to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. The effects are visible till this day , and this is one of the reasons that there is reluctance to objectively study and research the topic historically, to the point that it is not even taught in Greek history books. Therefore I congratulate you for this objective presentation.
Nothing after the balkan wars and a little bit of ww1 is taught in school there is no time, the parts from the late 1700s to the balkan wars are huge and filled with battles and huge changes that shaped europe. Also the coup did not lead to the invasion after the governments from the 60s and macarios failed to make a deal it was a matter of time.
Could said better.Congrats!
Πρωτον, δεν ηταν οι Ελληνες γενικα και αυθαιρετα που κατεβαλλαν υπερανθρωπη προσπαθεια καταπολεμωντας, και σε αρκετες περιπτωσεις κατατροπωνοντας, τις δυναμεις του Αξονα. Ηταν ο λαος και η στρατιωτικη του εκφανση, ο ΕΛΑΣ. (αξιζει να σημειωθει προφανως και η προσπαθεια του Ψαρρου και του 5/42 το οποιο εξαιτιας της τραγικης ηλιθιοτητας των στελεχων του ΚΚΕ, δυστυχως αποκεφαλισθηκε με τη δολοφια του ηγετη του). Υπηρχαν και παμπολλες ομαδες, φαινεται να τις ξεχνας βρε βασιλακη, οι οποιες με τον ενα ή τον αλλο τροπο συνεργαστηκαν με τις κατοχικες δυναμεις αντι να τις αντιμαχονται. Ο ΕΔΕΣ του Ζερβα επι παραδειγματι, ολοκληρη η πολιτικη ηγεσια του οποιου (με εδρα στην Αθηνα) συνταχθηκε με τις κατοχικες δυναμεις λιγο πριν ο Ζερβας ( ο οποιος επρεπε να χρηματιστει με αγγλικο χρυσο για να βγει στο Βαλτο και να σηκωσει ανταρτικο) θεσει ως κυριαρχο σκοπο της οργανωσης του την εξοντωση της "κομμουνιστικης απειλης", δηλαδη του ΕΛΑΣ, ξεκινωντας τον λεγομενο 'μικρο εμφυλιο' το 1943. Την στιγμη που οι Βουλγαροι πραγματοποιουσαν εθνοκαθαρση στην Μακεδονια, οι Ιταλοι και (κυριως) Γερμανοι σφαζανε γυναικοπαιδα και εκτελουσαν κοσμο και κοσμακι, ο κυριως Ζερβας εθεσε ως σκοπο της στρατιωτικης του οργανωσης να χτυπισει την μοναδικη σοβαρη στρατιωτικη δυναμη που ειχε ως τοτε ΜΟΝΗ ΤΗΣ αντισταθει στον Ναζιστικο ζυγο (τον ΕΛΑΣ). Μην αναφερουμε προφανως και τους χιτες, ταγματασφαλιτες (παιδια του κυρου Ραλλη) και ενα σωρο αλλα σκουπιδια.
Δευτερον, τον δεκεμβρη συγκεκριμενα, οι δυναμεις του ΕΛΑΣ δεχτηκαν επιθεση απο τα αγγλικα τανκς που αποβιβασθηκαν στον Πειραια. Εξηγησε μου βρε Βασιλακη, εξυπνο μου παλικαρι, πως σκατα ηταν οι ΕΛΑΣιτες "Busy fighting each other" την στιγμη που Αγγλικα στρατευματα εισβαλλουν στην πρωτευουσα και τους επιτιθονται; Την στιγμη που οι Αγγλοι χρηματοδοτουν καθολη τη διαρκεια της κατοχης μοναρχικες και φασιστικες οργανωσεις οπως αυτη του Ζερβα, την στιγμη που υπαρχουν εγργαφες αποδειξεις για τη συνεννοηση Ριμπεντροπ-Τσωρτσιλ για την Θεσσαλονικη, απο τη στιγμη που η Αγγλοκρατουμενη κυβερνηση του εξωτερικου ζητα τη διαλυση του ΕΛΑΣ και την αποκατασταση της 'δημοκρατιας' μεσω του εκμηδενισμου του ΕΑΜ, την στιγμη που γινεται ολη αυτη η προσπαθεια καταστροφης του μοναδικου αντιαστασιακου αξονα του ελληνικου εθνους απο τους Εγγλεζους, πως γινεται ρε βασιλακη να λες τετοιες μαλακιες; Ειμαστε πραγματι τοσο αμορφωτοι πια; Ειμαστε τοσο ηλιθιοι; Τι να σου πω βρε βασιλακη..
It's also worth noting at what cost these moments of Glory came. The war against Italy not only has massive casualties and brought Greek economy to it's knees but also replaced a relatively tame Italian occupation with an absolutely brutal Nazi one which not only shattered Greek society with Hundreds of Thousands of deaths due to Famine and executions but also effectively lead to the civil war afterwards. So even if it is a glorious moment (and for good reason) so many negative effects for Greece were born from that Infamous No against Italian occupation that are still reflected to this day.
What a gem of a channel ! Nice job dude !
Thanks for your reply.
Thank you for another great piece of history.BZ.
The Tolstoy conference set the stage for this battle.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend...(at least until we defeat my enemy).
I am a greek Greek Australian and in my mid 50s. My uncle faced death in Greece during ww2 but survived then fought in the Greek civil war against the communists as a young man. He was shot twice but the bullets could not be removed. He migrated to Australia in the 1950s and was hit by a car and spent a year in hospital. He survived all this had a family and was an amazing barber. Funny how things turn out...many greeks found the politics in their new country as very black and white so that if you were a liberal with left leaning politics you were a communist. The same was for the opposite side if you were conservative then you must be a fascist. History casts a long shadow.
Thanks for sharing.
Most Greek leftists are extreme left. They act like "liberals' to foreigner then voting for marxist infested Syriza. Tsipras literally believes communists were on the side of the cold war. He thinks 50 year totaltarian communist ruler Castro represented 'Democracy". And even named one of his kids "Che" after communist terrorist Che Gueverra. That's not moderate left in anything but narrative.
Last one is not true. Most Greek people didn't even know what communism or socialism or libertarianism were back then. It's just that we are always ready to fight eachother.
@@Billswiftgti Not true. Greek leftists just shamelessly hide they or their grandparents committed treason for communism and irredentist Skopians.
@@Billswiftgti
Nazis had occupied Greece just prior to the civil war. During that period Nazi propaganda constantly condemned communist propaganda.
Marxists and Nazis are birds of a feather. Totalitarian thugs. The main difference is Nazis knew they were promoting totaltarianism whereas communists incompetently framed totalitarianism as "democratic"
Here in the US, "Battle of Athens" usually refers to Athens, Tennessee, a rebellion in 1946 where angry WWII veterans overthrew a corrupt town government.
I had read about it and I found it fascinating!
Fascinating and tragic. The kindness and hospitality of the Greek people is impossible to beat, through thick and thin :)
Thanks for watching.
Very interesting. Didn’t know a lot about these events 👌
Another excellent video, Stefan as always. Just browsing the comments I look forward to the kerfuffle from the Greek community. LoL. Thanks for doing the stuff that doesn't have much "press." That part of Europe reminds me of Benjamin Franklin when he said, "When passion governs, it never governs wisely." Passionate people the Greeks are. Thanks again for the upload. Cheers from Tennessee
Funny the Logic (as we know it) was invented by the Greeks!
@@tttyuhbbb9823 mania is also a greek word.
The most tragic thing is that we never really moved on from this civil war. I study history and archeology and i have searched some books about the first schism between Venizelos and the king and also for the civil war. Every single book or professor is victim of their bias which brings historical confusion and makes understanding of it impossible. The only thing I know is that hate persists as we are the grandsons of these collaborators and these guerilla fighters who they never told us what they were during the war fearing still the reprisals. My mother told me once a story about my grandfather, how he had to go to a field to save one of his cousins who would be executed by one of the groups( i will not say which) and he was shaking from his fear, of course my grandfather never has told this story to any of his grandchildren himself.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Stefan, always great information. 👍✌️
Stefan how do you always come up with your video ideas.
Too much thanks (Sir Stefan) -(history Hustle)channel for sharing this informative short coverage of Athens Battle ...even several other documentaries talked about it .but not such details & accuracy
Many thanks!
As a Greek, to say that this war affected the political history of Greece would be an understatement. After that point being a communist or even associated with the left wing in general was like having the black plague, and that set the groundwork for the military junta in 1967. Even more, it wouldn't be until 1981 that a somewhat left wing government took
power
And look how that turned out....universities in Gr look like ghettos, the streets are littered with brsin dead anarcho communist graffitti, the university facualty are way yoo left leaning and years of leftists indoctrination have let to people being ashamed to be Hellenes, ancient symbols are labled as fascist or nazi. I'm not for left or right, but Greece has an unhealthy obsession with socialist left parties that have sucked Greece dry.
Hey Stefan, thanks for shedding light on this rarely discussed and very divisive (among Greeks) event. One of the saddest moments of modern Greek history for sure, when the rest of Europe was burying the hatchet and rebuilding their countries, we decided to keep killing ourselves. More Greek soldiers died in that horrible civil war, compared to the ones that lost their lives fighting the Germans and Italians.
My grandfather Alekos (sadly passed away in 2005) was 14 when the Germans entered Athens in April 1941, my grandmother told me that he was throwing rocks at Panzers from the balcony when they passed by. By the time of the Dekemvriana he and his older brother Kostas had joined ELAS, but only Kostas took an active role in fighting, since my grandfather was still a kid. I was told stories of Kostas being shot at and chased by gendarmes in the streets of Nea Smyrni (suburb in Athens).
My uncle Kostas stayed a fervent supporter of ELAS and its cause for all his life, and paid for his outspokenness by being exiled to Makronisos by the government after the end of the war. My grandpa Alekos was alot more moderate, a quiet, academic type, and ideologically could not differ more to the communists. He even served in the Greek Army after the end of the civil war in 1950, serving in a mine-clearing unit (still got photos of him riding in an ex-British Norton 16H motorcycle with a sidecar, bearing a cool skull and crossed bones black sign in the front, with British brodie helmets, Lee-Enfields and British webbing gear). He still got a commemorative EAM badge in 1980, to honor his contribution to the Greek resistance in WW2.
I wanted to mention my grandpa Alekos to make a point to the modern-day teenage wannabe commies in Greece. Not everyone in EAM-ELAS was a communist, EAM was the most influential, wide-spread and effective resistance group in the war. Thus, if anyone wanted to join the fight against the Axis, 90% of the time he had to join EAM. They had to for the sake of national liberation, and not for the sake of communism. What the communist leaders of EAM or their commissars had in mind for Greece was completely different. That's why the bulk of EAM fighters during WW2 didn't take part in the fighting in the Civil War, just like my grandfather. Communist guerrillas in the civil war committed innumerable atrocities to civilians and to whoever didn't want to shed more Greek blood for their Communist cause. That's why they lost popular support and most old people I've spoken to called the civil war as 'symmorito-polemos' or the 'bandit-war'. And all that because the Greek Communist Party didn't want to participate in the post-WW2 government and take part in the elections, which they boycotted to their detriment, and when they were unhappy with the result, they started a guerrilla war.
160,000 Greeks lost their lives for nothing.
Nevertheless, I thank you again for providing English-based content on modern Greek history. If you ever come to Greece again and want some historical battlegrounds to visit, you can try Dervenakia (close to Mycenae, where 3,000 Greeks managed to defeat and annihilate a 30,000-strong Ottoman army on three separate engagements, considered the greatest battle in the liberation from the Turks), you can also try Sphacteria/Pylos, a great holiday destination (Battle of Sphacteria, grand example of Spartans vs Athenians using triremes, sieges, hoplites and peltasts and also site of the naval Battle of Navarino, Russia/France/England vs Ottomans in one of the last great battles in the age of sail) and of course Thermopylae, where the famous hot springs are still flowing 2,500 years later.
Very informative as usual ! Thanks a lot ! Would you be able to also consider what was going on behind the scenes at the time between the West and the Soviet Union as I guess there must be a lot to say … ? Many thanks !
Hi Stefan, greetings from Greece. I have ancestors from both sides of the civil war. My perspective is: After Yalta conference Greece was to move on under Western influence. Communists in Greece of course didn't want that,EAM/ELAS had fought against Germans and wanted their will to be implemented, being side to side with USSR. But the "big guys", including Stalin, had already agreed... It was a useless war in my point of view. When the WW2 winning leaders have decided your fate as a buffer state,there is not much you can do. Sphere of influence is something big.Really big,not negotiable.
σωστος
@@caligula2977 όχι δεν είναι.η Ελλάδα δεν είναι ζώνη επιρροής.Αλλα Προπύργιο
@@marioskapetanakis η χωρα που ζουμε ηταν προτεκτορατο της αγγλιαςαπο γεννεσιμου της (1830 αγγλικα δανεια)
το 1947 εγινε προτεκτορατο usa
πιθανον στο 2ο ανταρτικο (οι πολλοι) δεν ηξεραν για την συμφωνια της γιαλτας η συμφωνια της γιαλτας διηρκησε νομιζω 4 μερες περιπου
2 μερες ηταν το Ελληνικο ζητημα
ο Τσωρτιλ δεν εννοουσε να αφησει το προτεκτορατο του , στο τελος προτειναν στον Σταλιν ολοκληρη την Πολωνια και εληξε το θεμα
@@caligula2977 έχεις δικιο
Very interesting thanks.
👍
Thank you , didn't know any of this .
Thanks for watching.
Depending on which side you are, things are described totally different. Yours was a fairly accurate and objective presentation (imo ofcourse). But at least facts were being presented in a way that an outsider may have a good idea of what happened. Comment from an author of two monographs on the subject several years ago
Thanks for sharing this.
An interesting fact was that the Greek king didn't trusted his troops, that's why he riled so heavily on British troops and security battalions men ( ex ss police)
The Greek army units arrived only after the fight had started..
In a interview a famous a writer " bon biver" and " man of fine taste" ( yes that was his job) said that that as an nco of the " 3d mountain brigade " (also known as Rimini brigade due to conquering the Italian town of Rimini) he took orders to take over a machine gun position, he checked the position with his binoculars and realized that the crew was very very young.. Just kinds, so he ordered his machine gun to fire but aiming on peprus above their heads, the kinds got frightened and abounded their position
Later after reporting on his success his commander told him that next time he shows mercy its gonna be court marshal
Anyways, as most Greeks I had relatives who fought for both sides
A story that I had mentioned before is the one of my grandfather
The short version was that in 1948 because he was a great marks man his commanding officer made him his hunter bringing him game both for selling and personal use in exchange for keeping him out of trouble.
Well in some point he lost his tracks and pumped to a group of fleeing partisans he tried to pull his sidearm but it was stuck frozen in the holster from the cold 😏
The rebels found it amusing and started laughing loudly
Then one of them told him " SOLDIER! We have nothing against you! This way is your unit" pointing the direction he should go..
The same rebel few days later was arrested and the unit commander decided that the pows should " run the gauntlet" but my grandfather against buddies advice couldn't beat the one who spared his life
That made his commander furious and ordered my grandfather to be locked in a cellar to die from hypothermia..
For few days his fellow soldiers was smuggling him blankets and jackets to keep him alive but his health was getting worse by the day
So one of them went to the commander and told him that my grandfather was the nephew of a police General known as the " black dog of makrigiani" a man that you don't want to kill his nephew
The commander realizing that he is really f***d if my grandfather dies in his hands ordered to be taken to Salonika's military hospital..
On the back of a truck
With no cover..
Probably hoping that he will die before reaching Salonika
But the truck driver took him in the truck's cabin probably saving his life this way..
Anyways the uncle that his commander was so afraid of earned his nickname back in 1944
During the siege of makrigiani police barracks by ELAS forces
In some point he realized that ELAS sappers are about to blow up their barricades and went to gun them down eventually getting a burst of bullets in his abdomen
Something that usually means a slow a very painful death his fellow policemen managed to evaluate him while he was literally holding his guts in...
Anyways " American surgeon" somehow managed to keep him alive and he grew to become a very notorious cup, a really scary person
Just to give you a taste during the military regime my grandfather's older brother was accused to be a "communist sympathaser "and was fired from his job
The next day the black dog paid a visit to the supervisor
He sat down and placed his revolver on the desk
Then told the supervisor" so my war hero nephew is a communist huh?
Do you know how many guys like you I have killed? " the supervisor was so petrified that went to my great grand uncle parents to beg for forgiveness 😂😂😂
The irony is that although my grand uncle had served in the royalist side during the Civil War and had got a promotion for saving his commanding officer's life deep down was indeed a communist 😄
But I guess the comment is already too long to explain why
That was a great story. Thanks. I wait for continue.
As for the king, it was logical to afraid his troops. The revolt of the navy and the army in Kairo was recent.
@@user-jf6yv8rj2s exactly that's why the 3d brigade was formed, almost all the men was handpicked for their royalty to the king 😉
Well my grand uncle was arrested during the German occupation for stealing food, he thought that they going to execute him, but because of his age he was send to Germany for forced labor
During the last days of the war the guards forced the prisoners to March westwards and most died in the process, in some point some of the the weakest prisoners was locked in a barn..
That's where the soviets found him and saved him
Almost a year later the red cross managed to bring him back to Greece
He was about 15 years old with gray hair and " the eyes of an old man" ( I guess it's the equivalent of what people in the states refer to as 1000 miles stare) later he was drafted in the Greek army and fought against " ΔΣ" forces at Gramos mountain range
In one of those " clean up" operations his platoon was trying to clean a series of trenches when his commanding officer runned out of ammo, holding only a revolver in the old British style
At that point a female rebel emerged from the trench holding a " hajari" ( Turkish for sword but imagine it more like a machete of sorts) my grand uncle out of instinct bayoneted her to death earning this way his promotion for saving his officer's life
The problem was that he felt guilty for that ( and also probably suffered from a massive PTSD) and couldn't go on with his life
Even in older age he would often cry saying to him self that she was so young, a teenager with long hair up to her waist, she shouldn't die so young..
Anyways as a civilian he adopted a very " cavalier" lifestyle getting in trouble all the time being very outspoken about what was wrong with the country and eventually in secret from his family joined the then illegal communist party
Although he hadn't revealed to anyone at his job been very outspoken about the military regime earn him some enemies and eventually planted a communist newspaper in his locker to use as an excuse to fire him
Interesting enough he didn't return to his job until the collapse of the junta although they were literally begging him to come back because he didn't want people to say that he was the one who asked for help from the " black dog"
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Great story my friend. Thank you for sharing. It deserves a movie, in my opinion.
It's funny that sometimes the best way to learn about someones country history is from a foreigner. Great video, thanks !
Great to read, thanks!
The Greek civil conflict can be considered the first proxy war of the cold war
True that. Many don't realize the Truman doctrine was first implemented in Greece.
Dude Persians did the shame in Peloponnesian and Hegemony wars.
Nah if anything that was a one sided proxy war. And to be honest not much of a proxy one too. The British forces and the American air force ABIT later, openly fought the Greek guerilla fighters. On the other hand the USSR did not take a part on this war as Stalin and Churchill had agreed on Britain holding influence in Greece on October '44 (see napkin agreement)
Indeed !
I remember I told you in your ww2 video about Greece, that world didn 't deserve anything and we shouldn 't fight. You asked me why this and I told you pretty much what your video says. Now I subscribe. Thanks for the video.
This still haunts us. Things were getting better and many wounds seemed that they would close during the 1975-2009 period but the economical crisis woke up the ghosts of the past . Today the memories of the civil war is an issue that helps the division among Greeks since the crisis gave much more voice to the extremists in both sides of the political spectrum . You see there isn't a family in Greece that has no victim from this historic period of this country so it is still a sensitive subject for many of us .
A very difficult subject to open and discuss with a Greek person. There is no formal historical account taught at schools, and most Greeks fail to remember that the civil war kick-off was British fueled, then USA sustained and finalised.
BTW: both my grandfathers served in the civil war, on opposite sides. Both of them refused talking to me about the civil war, although they would openly talk about WW2. I suppose this by itself says something...
As it concerns Greeks we are still haunted from this horrible era, and although fainting, the divide between left and right is still most visible than in other European countries. The general feeling is that events were already bad, but made worse by the British presence, who had tremendous benefit to keep Greece divided, concerned about the future of Cyprus and the Dodecanese islands.
Another great video ! You need to find the book herakles and the swastika ! It has many rare photos of germaniphiles and opportunists that supported the German war machine in the occupation of nazi Greece .
Thanks. I shall look into it.
This guy is a diamond.
😁
the video and the historical points are great. Congrats from a Greek...
Thank you!
What you are missing is that the next day of the strike, there was a public funeral about the victims of the polices brutality. The police opened fire against the crowd. Thats was the point when EAM/ELAS started occupying police stations across Athens. However , there is very little mentioning that there were grenades thrown at the strike.
Good work, but you should speak about the heroic Battle of Makrygianni, as well as of Thyseio during the wider Battle of Athens. There’s plenty of fine detail.
Top Stefan!
👍
Thank you Stefan!
😁
Interesting! Love that jacket Stefan!
😁👍
You visited Greece again ? I am super honourred once more. Just a year back while taking a long trip by foots (15km overall) starting from Sepolia going around the Acropolis and back at Sepolia i found a building near Thiseio with bullet holes. Clearly from Dekevriana.
That bring me to my second story. My grandfather was a pro king guy and a veteran of the Greco Italian war, he used to live in Thiseio durring the occupation and never betrayed his country. During the Dekevriana he was staying in his home and heared some noicecoming from the backyard, it was a guy chased by EAM. EAM lost that guy at that very yard (he simply ran throught it and left), so they started interrogating my grandfather and at some point one of them said "you are the one we are looking for", they pointed their guns and were about to shoot but some other guy said "wait no that's not him" and after that they simple left... the last part was like a joke to them. Now that was first and only time my grandfather met EAM, after that he became an anti communist and joinned the civil war with the side of the army. I fully understand why he did it but i do not support it.
I got many stories from that era from both sides and some people still support the civil war (either side)...
As Veggos said in Psixi Vathia, in a very powerfull scene - What glory ? This is not a war that found us General, it is a shame. Greeks shooting at Greeks ?
At any case i still love my grandfather even tho he died in 1968 way before i was born and i am proud for his action during the Greco Italian war.
Also in 2:23 that picture is from Thrace, my 11 years old grandmother took part in the revolution in Ferres, that started a domino effect that liberatted Evros (it has more details and i am skipping a lot).
Thanks for your reply. This video I recorded last May when I was in Athens.
@The truth is out there UFO Never seen it which one is it ? and why do we speak in English now ?
Thank you
Nice!
🥉👍
In Dekemvriana the collaborators shot first and this is a fact, even the chief of police Angelos Evert admited later.
Greece will never be communist
@@greeceundiscovered9670 who cares about that
Awesome.
👍
(basically WW2 didn't finish, on a certain day like a grand Prix - The greek Civil War has been brushed under the carpet)
Hello Stefan,
In my opinion you covered the issue much better than other Western historians. I believe that Western historians are a little bias on the matter, because of the involvement of KKE(communist party).
Your sources, I observed are Roderick Beaton and Christopher Woodhouse.
There are many other sources for the matter, by men who were witnesses, like Woodhouse. One of them is KOMNINOS PYROMAGLOU the vice leader of EDES. He have written 2 books about the period of Greek National Resistance and he wasn't a communist.
He started the events from 1936 and the Metaxas regime, because it was related in the aftermath of WW2 and the Greek Civil War, that followed. He had also meetings with all the big leaders of EAM-ELAS. The British allied officers, who they stationed in Greece like Eddie Mayers and Christopher Woodhouse. Also meetings with the most important Greek and British political figures of the time. He witnessed the incidents of Kairo in 1943, who he went there for negotiations with the other members of the resistance groups.
First of all KKE created EAM, but it wasn't alone. There were 2 other minimal parties which signed the charter of the organization. First KKE hit the doors of all the urban parties, for cooperation and resistance, but it found close doors. The political leaders that had remained in Greece, done nothing about it. It was like we should wait for the inevitable to happen and not react.
The 3 resistance groups that you mentioned, there were and the biggest and most organized in Greece. All 3 of them, according to Pyromaglou, in their charter had similar goals, but the most important similarity, was that none wanted the return of the king. Especially not after the War, becomes a free referendum about the issue and the people decide on its own. But Winston Churchill wished with all his heart the return of the king. After Kairo of 1943, before the Civil War between EDES-ELAS, Eddie Mayers didn't return to Greece as the leader of the headquarter of Middle East in Greece and the allied resistance groups. He was been replaced by his inferior until then, Christopher Woodhouse. The reason was that he had tried to persuade the king to resign and accept the will of the vast majority of the Greek people. People who had lived along for so long and had fought together for the allied victory.
So the Greek Civil War, probably had already been decided by then and it was prepared until the end of WW2.
EAM and the leaders of KKE never really wanted to clash with the British. They just wanted recognition by them, something that you had to be naive to believe that the British or any Western power would give to communists. Therefore the battle of Athens lost in purpose, because if they wanted to win the had much more units, much more experienced men and officers that they could use but they didn't. They could hit the forces of Thessaloniki, at the same time for example, but they didn't.
Sources about the demonstration say that lasted 2 days and the people reached 200000 and not 60000. The vast majority of the people back then was with EAM.
Like today if police wants to break a demonstration, as peaceful it may be, through the gasses and replies that it has been provoked. Different times but the methods remain similar.
I look forward for your next episode about Greece.
Thanks for sharing this additional information and insights.
Beaton is sloppy in his work and patronizing in his narrative "Greece Portrait of a MODERN nation". What the heck kind of title is that? When anyone injects the word "modern" Greeks/Greece it's essentially them trying to rehash Fallmerayer narrative that claims today's Greeks have no link to ancient Greeks (aka racist trolls trying to subtlety erase us by detaching us from our history) . Most of them have no clue whatsoever current balance of genetic evidence suggests the theory is wrong. At least ethnic Greeks (as opposed to just Greeks from citizenship sense that can be from anywhere) appear to be directly and closely biologically related to ancient Greeks (with admixture) Our geography, language and education is a testimonial to our connection to ancient Greeks but for some reason many foreigners (and even some Greeks) obsess that we must be racially pure to be "real" Greeks.
We aren't pure ancient Greeks but we typically have far more in common with ancient Greeks than those that insert "modern" Greeks into their narratives have with their claimed roots. I'l like to see Beaton, who claims to be British, try to read a single sentence of common Britonic. The current PM of Britain has indian roots. The mayor of London Pakistani. "Britain portrait of a modern nation" . Watch their their reaction if others tried to truncate their history to formation of the UK in th 18th century. No history whatsoever before then or else they are deluded "nationalists".
@@mydogsbutler I haven't read Beaton in my life or any other foreigner source about the period of National Resistance
this is by far the most innaccurate information about the conflict, EAM at the battle of athens had less than a third of the forces that were required to take the city in the region and their main method of conscription was forcing children and teens to work with them which is why support was lost and is still gone from all rural and northern Greece, EAM also attacked all other revolutionary forces before the german occupation ended showing clearly that they planned to take power by force.
@@Dimitriterrorman What was the inaccurate?
EAM didn't need to take by force the authority. As Stefan narrated in the video, EAM and ELAS, after the Germans left had in its control about the 90% of the Greek territory. ELAS had entered and liberated almost every city and village, except Athens because it was part of the deal between the British and the government of National Unity of Georgios Papandreou.
Stefan also mentioned in this part, that even if EAM was controlling almost the 90% of the country its contribution to the government was minimal. 6 ministers of EAM were being participated only. This is a clear part that EAM didn't wish the arm conflict but the cooperation and the recognition of the British and the old political system.
As for the battle of Athens, it is clearly enough that, by the time had the possibility to control such a vast area of Greece, had and the manpower. ELAS combined with the regular and reverse ELAS had reached about 100000 men. British in the battle of Athens mobilized 6000 troops according to video. They had some forces also in Patras and Thessaloniki. ELAS mobilized only some units from Athens which most of them were unexperienced. It could throw many more units and the best officers. Also the leaders of ELAS, Aris Velouhiotis and Stefanos Sarafis were absents in the fight. In Patra and Thessaloniki ELAS didn't hit the British, which was much more easy. The general of ELAS-MACEDONIA Markos Vafiadis never took any orders to attack the British, which they stationed in Thessaloniki.
As for the Civil Wars with the resistance groups. I am fully against any Civil War, but they were much more complicated. Psaros assassination was an unfortunate incident and it was a pity, but there are much more to say about these conflicts.
So, I m sorry my friend, but the inaccurate is you in the matter and not me.
A good video. The Greek Civil War was more important on the world stage than people may realize. It woke people up in the West to the real Communist threat. Take ding dong care.
The biggest mistake that was made then was that when elections were called, the then leader of the KKE, Nikos Zachariadis, decided to leave the party out of participation, effectively making it illegal as a party, at a time when 90% of Greeks were with the EAM
as a greek I would say that the incidents of Dekemvriana and the civil war still haunt the country today. And they don't haunt it only ideologically, but mainly practically. The communists suffered a total defeat, as many of them executed, exciled and imprisoned in Greece's uninhabited or immigrated in Eastern Block's countries . The families that got rich because they engaged in profiteering during the Nazi occupation were the absolute winners, and they constitute until today some of the richest greek families. At the post war Europe, the communist and labor parties pressured and won favourable reforms. In Greece there was nothing. When the left-wing movement started emerging again, during the 60s, a CIA driven military coup of fascist officers took place to completely eliminate the danger of communism. That is why the today's greek upper class has by far the highest profit margin in Europe (check OECD statistics). The fact that the greek upper class constitutes by the descendants of Nazi collaborators and profiteers, that were completely uncontrolable during the first post war decades also explains the incomprehensible (from economic perspective) memoranda that were forced to Greece during the recent economic crisis: memoranda that were absolutely favorable to rich greek families (they all got much richer the last years) and absolutely unfavorable towards all the others (hundreds of thousands young greeks left the country in the decade of 2010 to find a descent work somewhere in Europe).
Παραλίγο αφεντικό ούτε σε ένα δεν έπεσες μέσα
@@jotarokujo2638 σε όλα έπεσε μέσα
Οι οικονομικοί δωσιλογοι δεν δικαστικάν ποτέ
Θες να μιλήσουμε για την μπισνα που έκανε η σιμενς κατά την διάρκεια της κατοχής; για τα τζιμεντοπλια του Αυγερη; για το τι ανθρωποι ήταν γύρω από την κυβέρνηση Ράλλη και που βρήκαν τα λεφτά για να οργανώσουν τα τάγματα ασφαλείας;
Να μιλήσουμε για τα θαλλασοδανεια και για το ποιοι είναι οι ιδιοκτήτες των μεγάλων ΜΜΕ και των μεγάλων κατασκευαστικων;
Μόνο ο τσολακογλου καταδικαστικε που στην τελική έκανε το αυτονόητο, δεν άφησε εκατοντάδες χιλιάδες Έλληνες στρατιώτες έρμαιο στα χέρια τον Γερμανών μόνο και μόνο για να προλάβει ο βασιλεύς τον Ελλήνων να την κάνει για Καϊρο.
Όλοι οι υπόλοιποι στρατιωτικοί φάγανε από μια στέρηση βαθμού και όλα ποπα γύρισαν στο στρατό με δόξα και τιμή
Γιαυτό και ο Παπαδόπουλος είχε το βαθμό του συνταγματαρχη αντί αυτού του ταξίαρχου
Κακό που του κάναν ε;
@@jotarokujo2638 όσο για τα μνημόνια θα έπρεπε να ξέρεις ότι οι Έλληνες πλοιοκτήτες φορολογουντε βάση νόμου σε εθελοντική βάση και σε πολύ χαμηλότερο βαθμό από τον υπόλοιπο πληθυσμό
Δλδ δεν φτάνει ότι τους ζητάνε ψίχουλα, θα τα δώσουν αυτά τα ψίχουλα οπότε και άμα θέλουν
Επίσης θα έπρεπε να γνωρίζεις ότι σε αυτά τα δέκα χρόνια έφυγαν από την Ελλάδα 900 χιλιάδες νέοι
Μορφωμένοι νέοι
Αναντικαταστατοι νέοι
Εσύ τώρα περίμενε μέλλον με τα ταγαρια που μείναμε πίσω
Careful, careful Stefan. You are stepping into deep waters here with the Greek civil war xDDDDD
😁👍
Some few words from a fellow Greek about the Greek Civil War.
When Zachariadis (leader of the Greek communist party) discussed with Stalin about the possibility of Greece becoming a member of Soviet Union after the WWII, Stalin was loyal to his agreement with the Allies, for not including Greece in Soviet Union -even if the rest of the Balkans were to be part of the Soviet Union- Joseph Stalin made clear to Zachariadis that there would be no possibility this would happen. Thus, even if there were loyal communists that didn't want to obey a government given by the allies and ruled by former nazi partners, they would have no help from the Soviet Union, winning a civil war against this government.
When the civil war broke out, a very small percentage of Greeks from EAM volunteered to fight this civil war. The most volunteers to fight in this civil war were slavic speaking Bulgarian/greek origin communists from the region of Macedonia (or south Macedonia) Epirus and Western Thrace. That's why most of the communist resistance was in the North part of Greece, close to the boarders of other balkan (communist) countries.
All in all, even if the new Hellenic government was not what Greeks deserved, there was no others option. The Greek Civil war, was a huge mistake (of some communists)
Without a big percentage of actual Greek Communists fighting for this cause, or the Soviet Union helping anyhow, against the Napalm bombs of the allies, with no intentions from Stalin to include Greece to the Soviet Union. This plan was doomed to fail, and not only it failed, but cost the lives of thousands of Greek civilians, soldiers and rebels, making even stronger the legacy of hatred among the people of Hellas.
From the Peloponnesian war, to our last the Civil war, Let Us Unite! May such tragedies will never happen again.
Μην ξεχνάς ότι πολλά πρώην μέλη του ΕΑΜ ΕΛΑΣ (πολλές χιλιάδες για την ακρίβεια) γέμιζαν ήδη τις φυλακές και τα ξερονήσια μετά την Βάρκιζα και πολλοί άλλοι είχαν δολοφονηθεί από τις παρακρατικές συμμορίες. Ούτε τις εκκενώσεις ολόκληρων περιοχών από το 1947 για να μην έχει ο ΔΣΕ δυνατότητα ανεφοδιασμού και στρατολόγησης.
Δεν παραβλέπω και το τραγικό λάθος της ηγεσίας του ΚΚΕ να μετατρέψει τον ΔΣΕ σε "τακτικό στρατό" ούτε το ότι αν ο Άρης δεν είχε οδηγηθεί από την ίδια ηγεσία στην αυτοκτονία η εξέλιξη θα ήταν τελείως διαφορετική.
Όσο για τον περιορισμό της σύγκρουσης στις περιοχές των βορείων συνόρων, η εξήγηση βρίσκεται και πάλι στην μετατροπή του ΔΣΕ σε "τακτικό στρατό". Χωρίς να υπάρχουν οι απαραίτητες υποδομές και με την τροφοδοσία να προέρχεται σχεδόν στο σύνολό της από την Γιουγκοσλαβία και την Αλβανία, οι μονάδες της νότιας Ελλάδας και ειδικά της Πελοποννήσου και τον νησιών απλά δεν μπορούσαν να σταθούν σε χλωρό κλαρί. Με τον "τακτικό σχεδιασμό" του Ζαχαριάδη και των γύρω του, άκαπνων στο σύνολό τους σχεδόν από την αντίσταση, ούτε εφοδιασμό σε όπλα και πυρομαχικά είχαν, ούτε σε εφεδρείες, ούτε σε τρόφιμα και ιατροφαρμακευτικό υλικό. Και ειδικά στην Πελοπόννησο με τις ενδοοικογενειακές διαφορές και τα μίση και τα πάθη που κρατάνε ίσως και πριν από τον Πελοποννησιακό πόλεμο και διογκώθηκαν στην διάρκεια της κατοχής είναι θαύμα που κατάφεραν όσοι κατάφεραν να διαφύγουν και να φτάσουν στην βόρεια Ελλάδα.
@@nikosk3080 σε ευχαριστώ για τον εύστοχο σχολιασμό σου Νίκο, ορθά λέγεις! Είναι σημαντικές παρατηρήσεις τα όσα αναφέρεις
@@punkpakos Η ιστορία τα αναφέρει, όχι εγώ.
Of course, there was a moral problem: There was a command from the Greek government regarding the collaborators, for severe punishment. And they did the exact opposite. The people of EAM (the political branch) indeed wanted national liberation and pride and were against the king.
Practically the communist party and ELLAS were under British control till October 1944. ( The command centre was in Cairo, every soldier-guerilla got gold pounds(sovereigns) from Britain, and there were 60 British missions for the proper instructions on site.
Also, Britain helped the opposite guerilla groups EDES etc. to control the situation in a perfect way.
When EDES tried to invade North Epirus, ELLAS prevented them because the allies did not want border change.
But the leadership of KKE was very weak, the leader was a former tobacco worker (Siantos) without any political experience and without any political talent.
And Siantos had to face the winner of a world war (Churchill) and a very experienced military man in handling the colonies's affairs(Scoby) i.e India.
He had the know-how !
The organization of ELLAS was a disaster. From 1943 but mostly during Decemvriana they did atrocities because of the lack of a fair policy, and the fact of people with criminal behaviour took over critical positions. They organised popular courts ( my grandfather and my 15 years uncle were tortured and executed although my grandfather was liberal ) and they executed for money or for revenge etc. They didn't touch British, financial collaborators etc.
In Greece after the disaster of 1922, there were two political sides. The right and liberals. The conflict was very hard and we had 25% of the population in tragic conditions because they were Greek refugees from Asia Minor. These refugees and liberals accused the right side of the Minor Asia disaster. And it was true.
So we had to prevent the participation of Greece in the war as did Turkey, Sweden, Spain etc.. That was the great mistake of king Georgios II. All the sides Germans, Allies, Collaborators, Communists, and the Greek government, Anticommunists were shooting the body of the country for nine years.
And what was the gift? A huge percentage of the population went to work for Germans in 50'-60' as immigrants.
A disaster without reason!
Your sources are approximately correct. This civil war continues till now, but in different level. Many regards from Greece.
In what sense the Civil War continues till now? Love to hear.
@@HistoryHustle Political opposition and in several cases acts of violence between the more radical far left and far right parties.
@@HistoryHustle Basically who ever feels the slightest Hellenen is considered a fascist from the left and whoever feels the slightest oppressed from right wing rulers is considered a communist.To be real its very difficult to express your political views here.As George Orwell said " I ve been considered Right by the Left and Left by the Right."
My grand father, god rest his soul, was a soldier in Greek army during that horror of horrors! He fought in the mountains of Epirus and western Thessaly, Grammos front! He was assigned at the age of 17!!! already a father of two children and fired at the age of 22! He killed many communists and was wounded many times! After every recovery was send back in the front! The details of him narrating his fights were thrilling. He was from a mountainous village of Karditsa! Every mountainous village of those regions was suffering raids from Communist fascists who were abducting healthy male boys like modern Jenitcharies! Salvaging live stock and every supplies villagers had gathered to spend winter! My grandmother told me the story of her brother getting shockingly beaten by commies denying to let them take his donkey and her of covering her two little boys with pure heat oil pretending they were sick for commies to spare them! At that time no medicine were available for poor people thus heat oil was a common way of treat! Communism is the worst thing a sick mind could ever believe in! It brings the greatest disasters humanity has ever seen!
The bloody prologue of the cold war era.
As a greek, the civil war is remembered as the worst conflict in modern greek history. There were countless occasions were one man was in EDES and his brother (or other family members) were in ELAS/EAM and consequently they were literally killing each other. One prime example of the unhinged violence that took place was a communist officer whose mother was murdered by his comrades because of a misunderstanding (if i remember correctly). He then changed sides and swore to kill 600 communists with his own hands to take revenge.
Ha! You got me Stephen. I was thinking of the Battle of Athens here in America after WW2 when citizens of Athens, GA staged a spontaneous and successful armed revolt after a corrupt mayor and sheriff stole an election!
This video reminds me a story my father once told me. When the famine started, especially in Athens and the cities , many Athenians travelled to the province and sold their valuables for some overpriced olive oil and wheat. My father had some feta cheese and corn bread and started to munch it. A boy from Athens was looking from a distance and started to chew "thin air" watching him. He saw him and gave a (little) piece. The boy thanked him and told him: Thank you for the bread but do you mind if I collect the crumbles from the paper?? Tragic ....
Sad story. Thanks for sharing this.
Tragic but interesting, I was aware that Greece had a real post war problem with the communists and non-communists but not that it was that bad.
Thanks for watching.
More deaths than in ww2...
My parents visited Greece from the US in 1977. They told me they went to a little cafe in Athens and after the locals had had enough to drink, they brought out a big red hammer and sickle flag and everyone in the bar began singing (presumably) revolutionary songs! My parents were beyond shocked.
Speaking as a Greek, I can attest there is a strong streak of extreme left ideology in Greece. Most think KKE is the only commuist party in Greece .There are many communist oriented parties... including Syriza. It's leaders are communists but ones that use progressive language to trick progressives into supporting communists.
Well considering that the very Latin America style junta had only collapsed in 1974 this shouldn't be a surprise, anything anti- American was cool as hell back in the day
I mean even the American born Andreas Papandreou became a prime minister capitalizing upon the heavily anti American - anti NATO public sentiment
And honestly how can blame them?
Both dictators Papadopoulos and Ioanidis was ex security battalions men ( ss police) that later employed by Cia for " cladio" operations in Greece
@@Pavlos_Charalambous The US was the good guy fighting communism during the cold war but they used to sometimes go too far and occasionally support the violent overthrow of democratically elected left wing governments. (which is what happened in Greece)
That behavior is what lead to blowback of distrust of the US government not anti-Americanism per se. It was dumb strategically too Almost lost the cold war because of it. Fortunately, most Greeks cared about democracy more than anti-Americanism so it's forgiven. (other than by Greek leftists that are still stuck in a cold war).
#thistotallyhappened 🤣🤣🤣🤣, man just pulled this out of the deepest, most web-trodden, and darkest corner of his ass
@@mydogsbutler to put things into context in 1967 there was no "leftist " party in power
It was the centralist/liberal party of Georgios Papandreou who himself was on the royalist side during the December 44 crisis
The reason why he and Karamanlis in the opposition wasn't allowed to stay in power was that the young king's mother didn't like them
I mean see didn't even liked general Papagos the one how won the Civil War for the royalist side calling him names ect
On the other hand CIA wasn't content even with the existence of a leftist party in the parliament ( united left front - the communist one was illegal) so they allowed Papadopoulos, Makarezos and Ioanidis to act
When the 1967 coup broke out the American embassidor told the head of CIA in Athens that what was happening was a " rape of democracy" only to take the answer " how you can rape a whore?" ( that's much about protecting democracy)
When Papadopoulos tried to restore some of the civil rights of the people
He was overthrown by Ioanidis
Then Ioanidis proceed to orchestrate the 1974 coup in Cyprus that lead to the Turkish invasion and the partition of the island
Again doing the dirty work for the Americans who wanted the removal of archbishop Makarios without ( as kissinger said) caring if the entire island "gets under Turkish flag"
So yes they first made him do their bid and a week later doubled crossed him
To add insult to injury after the collapse of the regime they were keep killing people to close their mouths
A well known example was the mp Alexandros Panagoulis he was murdered in 1976 after he made a statement that he was going to reveal the findings of the parliamentary committee about Cyprus
The chief of stuff - a relic of junta upon hearing that replied " you won't survive that long"
The buttom line is that it was the American policies that made " everyone" leftist
US military personnel was acting with complete impunity since local law enforcement couldn't touch them
That how they got away from example with the murder of the elderly General Sarafis - a centralist / liberal politician
And again Andreas Papandreou was grew up in United States, educated and served in US navy
And even he was understanding that this kind of behavior on behalf of the United States was bringing the nation to the edge of civil war and probably to war with Turkey ( see leviathan crisis) and had to kick start together with the conservative party and the parties of the left what is known in Greece as " metapolitefsi" literally " the regime of change"
It's not a coincidence that the power of KKE ( communist party) was reduced to minimum after democracy was restored
great video however i would believe that it would be better if you had talked about the civil conflicts from 1943 between EDES and ELAS and the Caserta treaty. Thus your viewers will be able to fully understant the Decembriana.
Now how we feel in Greece. To be honest with you almost 80 years down the road the civil passions between rightwings and left wings are still there and are based on the Decembriana and the following civil war (for left wings) also know as bandid war (right wing). So there is a lot of propaganda from both sides and the passions have not been erased
One thing that almost all Greeks agree despite their political identity, is that the British were the ones who pushed this civil unrest to take place and thus to blame.
I hope this info are beneficial for you
The British are not to blame for the civil war. Greek leftist are to blame for supporting communist tyranny. To this day the Greek left try to sweep their treason and extremism during the greek civil war under the carpet. All they do is protest about the Junta ad nauseum. They never talk about the time they were murdering other Greeks for irredentist Skopians and mass murderering communist tyrants like Tito and Stalin.
@@mydogsbutler i do agree with you that KKE where the ones who started the war and that they try to hide their crimes and manipulate history. however the main question is: whose guidelines KKE was following? Also why the issues started when British SOE agents arrived in Greece? Why from 1943 when ELAS started attacking other resistance movements the British supported ELAS and stopped supporting other organizations like EDES? so when we will have answers to these questions we can claim if the british were or were not to blame
@@theodorossarafis7370
Marxist Parties like KKE and Syriza are brain dead. They think they speak for anti-racism and anti-nationalism. Meanwhile, anthellenic racist extreme nationalists in other states play them for fools to undermine their own country.
Neither the British nor the Americans
were to blame for Greek leftists committing treason. During the cold war they helped keep us from becoming part of the iron curtain and for that we should be grateful.
My only problem with both countries is they backstabbed us by supporting the junta, backstabbed us when the Turks invaded Cyprus (violating NATO's own rules). And they later backstabbed us yet again by ridiculously recognizing Skopians as "Macedonians". Ironically they are behaving like the communist ethnic engineers of Yugoslavia they once protected us from.
I think the events started not from Kazerta but from the summer of 1943 in Kairo. Before the Civil War between EDES-ELAS.
But to fully understand DEKEMVRIANA and the Greek Civil War, I believe that we should go back in 1936 and the Metaxas regime.
@@user-jf6yv8rj2s Metaxas was a far right counter reaction to far leftist extremism that started with much earlier communists. Greek far leftists take their anti-nationalism to the extreme. They seek to destroy the Greek people's very identity as part of their genocidal ideology.
To really understand the "Greek" communist it's best not think of them as "Greeks". Their identity .culture and loyalities is communism not ancient Hellenism. They are "Greeks'" that are literally antihellenic.
You keep talking about former collaborators. The truth is that for EAM/ELAS everyone who was not with them was labeled as a collaborator.
Many of the Greek police were, by necessity, working both ways. A characteristic example is the chief of police Angelos Evert who supplied thousands of Greek Jews with Identity cards writing Religion: Greek Orthodox, saving them by the Nazis.
There were also the National Security Battalions, that were accused as collaborators by the communists. These units were created by the Ralis government during the German occupation, so they had to operate under these conditions. But the proposal for their creation came from a Greek retired republican general, in order for Greece to have a military force capable to prevent a communist takeover of the country, between the time the Germans left and the Greek forces in exile returned.
The demonstration in Syntagma was just a pretext used by the communists. In reality the offices of KKE in the former Kommandatur building was evacuated about a week before (The building the tank is entering in the video bellow, today is in right next to the Panepistimio Metro station and the German torture cells can be visited today) and the six ministers EAM had in the National Unity government also resigned few days before, protesting that the government was not doing enough against the collaborators.
Also, throughout Greece police stations were under attack by ELAS fighters, days before the demonstration in Syntagma.
However, the Battle of Athens did not take place in Syntagma square, because this was controlled by the British. The Battle of Athens took place mainly around the Makriyannis Gendarmery regiment base, in the place that the Acropolis Museum is today. The HQ building of the regiment is left next to the Acropolis Museum as a monument of this battle.
There were many atrocities done by the communists throughout Greece. In Athens many people were killed in the area of the ULEN water refineries including a famous actress of the time (Papadaki). She had a family acquaintance with the occupation's prime minister Rallis and used this acquaintance to save many resistance fighters from the Germans, but she was not communist, so she was killed (the order was to behead her with an axe, but the executioner felt sorry for her and shot her instead).
After the communists lost the battle of Athens and surrendered old weapons after the Varkiza agreement, but they kept more modern weapons taken by the Italians in exchange for their safety from the Germans, after 1943.
The communist party boycotted the first postwar Greek elections in 1946 and started the so called "third round" of the Greek civil war, that eventually ended in 1949.
This is an American video that presents the events of that period:
ruclips.net/video/JeAwde8Agyg/видео.html
Although the guerilla war ended in 1949, communists were more or less persecuted until 1974 and the KKE was eventually legalized in the late '70s (the term Civil War was adopted in the early '80s, until then it was called Gang or Guerilla War), however sentiments are still running high, on both sides.
This is another video about these events:
ruclips.net/video/e5YD1i2_k7g/видео.html
The so called "Macedonian" issue was an invention by Tito to get ahead of the Bulgarians (who wanted the control of the area since the late 19th century) in the control of the Greek area of Macedonia after the war. The south part of Yugoslavia was known as Vardaska Banovina until 1943, when Tito renamed it as Macedonia.
Thanks for sharing this additional information.
@@HistoryHustle You 're welcome and thanks for showing videos about Greece.
These may also be of interest for teaching purposes:
ruclips.net/video/3T7_oi985dg/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/ulAxMLJ7O7M/видео.html
Nice whitewashing of the Security Battalions. You forgot to mention that they were responsibles for many attrocities. In the countryside they assisted the Germans in counter guerilla opperations by burning villages, raping and executing civilians. In Athens the battalionists were the spearhead in round ups (blocos) where they execute people with the help of masked traitors.
In April '44 the Security Battalions were responsibles for the veterans massacre. In a single operation they killed all the albanian front veterans (many disabled) who they were hospitalized since 41, because they were considered EAM members.
They were fascists volunteers with an oath of allegiance to Hitler.
Yeah yeah the EAM was bad and the collaborators were good, here comes with the bullshit again. And iam not even a communist.
@@cortomaltese1203 You are wrong in both counts. I am not white washing anybody and no they were not fascist volunteers with an oath of allegiance to Hitler. Actually, Greece was the only occupied country who did not send volunteers to fight for Germany.
These battalions were created exactly to oppose EAM/ELAS from taking power after the occupation forces left Greece.
The time was also very difficult and the role everybody played was very controversial.
True these people were responsible for many atrocities, but so were the EAM/ELAS forces. How would you think any official armed security force could work in a German occupied country, without the German approval?
They were playing both ways.
On their side, EAM/ELAS were fighting other guerilla groups that were not associated with them and they would ambush German forces near villages that were not supporting them, so that the Germans would go in and burn them down in reprisals afterwards. This practice was quite common at the time.
When an urban resistance organization PEAN blew up the building where the treacherous organization ESPO had its offices, in the center of Athens, killing 43 Germans and 39 traitors, the PEAN members were arrested by the Gestapo, after the treason of a police officer who was later killed as a traitor. At the time, EAM/ELAS was accusing them of being German collaborators that would be released soon. They were all executed instead, with the exception of one who managed to escape. None of them talked during their interrogation by the Gestapo.
The result of their action was to make the Germans abandon any plans they had to recruit Greeks to fight for them
Another famous action by the EAM/ELAS forces was the murder of colonel Psarros, leader of the EKKA organization and former commander of the elite 5/42 Evzone regiment.
The period was very turbulent and the role everyone played at the time was very controversial.
See it this way: If you were a resistance leader, with whom would you like to work with, someone who would be called in for questioning if a car exhaust made a bang, or with someone who would be above suspicion and move freely among the occupiers, giving you information from within. Obviously if you had a person like that you would not say to everyone, he was your spy so naturally, for everyone else he would be a collaborator.
Hey stefan
Ik ben een Nederlandse student en ik wil volgend jaar beginnen met de opleiding Leraar geschiedenis op Hogeschool Utrecht
Heb je enige tips voor mij voordat ik ermee begin?
Niet echt, ga naar een open dag of beter een meeloopdag om te zien of dit is wat je wilt.
Still have to watch the video in full but I cannot get why Churchill wanted a civil war in Greece. Well, he wanted war with the Soviets in 1946 so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised
👍
Churchill didn;'t want a civil war in Greece. He didn't want communism in Greece and he, and the US, were right in opposing the fifth columnist Greeks that shamelessly supporting communist tyranny. Had the free world not won the cold war we would all be living in totaltarism framed as "democracy" today.
Papandreou was Center Wing, so Plastiras, and later Prime Minister Sofoulis. All of them were anti-Comunists. They fought so Greece remain anti-Comunist state. And they succed, along side Far Right hero Napoleon Zervas.
If Comunists prevailed, Epirus will go to Nazi Albanian Cams. Macedonia to Slavs. And the rest of Greece as a comunist state.
Greek Army with the Allies, British and Americans helped a lot, and we thank them. After all Comunist states in Europe helped the Greek Comunists.
Papandreou was in Kairo and came from Kairo. He was a puppet of the British who they wanted the return of the king, in contrast to the vast majority of the Greek people. Plastiras was also anti-royalist, that is why probably remained for so little. Sofoulis was like all the others, he had to serve the British.
Napoleon Zervas was a Venizelist officer, also anti-royalist. In the declaration of EDES, clearly was saying that after the War EDES supported not the return of the king, at any cost. Not before it becomes a Free Referendum, so the Greek people decide on their own about their political future. In the end he went with the will of the British, contrast to his prime declaration and promise.
About the rest it couldn't be possible to be true, because ELAS, fought all 3 occupiers, against the Roman Legion of Pindus, the Bulgarian organization OHRANA in Western Macedonia and the autonomists of Tito. The Slavophone population which had autonomists theories in Western Macedonia and they were backing up by Tito, ELAS disbanded them. Also EAM by protesting in the summer of 1943, prevented the expansion occupied zone, of Bulgarians from Eastern Macedonia to Central Macedonia, because the Nazis needed the relief some of their troops.
As for our "Allies", before the war Metaxas regime, was philo-germanist. But the Germans were in secret negotiations with Yugoslavia, to join the Axis taking as a gift route to the Aegean, thus Thessaloniki. Metaxas regime was philo-germanist but Germans came in negotiations with the Bulgarians to give them part of Macedonia and Thrace and they did.
As for our British "Allies" before the war were in negotiations with the Turks to enter the war promising them the Dodecanese islands and other islands of the Aegean. We should thank them for this too.
In the end we should thank our British and American "Allies" because they gave half of Cyprus to the Turks.
So that proves that the only and real guardian and protector of Greece was EAM and ELAS.
Hio Stephan,
You don't mention that EAM was the largest resistance organization (with organizations in every city) supported by the majority of the Greek people and ELAS the military force that managed the biggest blows to the Germans throughout the country. In contrast, the other two organizations (EDES and EKKA) had a small and local action with zero impact on the people. An important omission is the failure to mention the action of the security battalions, which consisted of Greeks who fought on the side of the Germans.
ThE British, in order to serve their own policy, did not hesitate to use the security battalions against the EAM, at a time when WW2 had not yet ended.
In short, the two sides that clashed were those who resisted the Germans and those who collaborated with them. The defeat of the resistance forces in the Decembriana resulted in Greece being the only country in which not only the collaborators of the Germans were not punished, but instead they took over the government of the country for 30 years and relentlessly hunted down all those who resisted.
The injustice that was committed is so great that it explains why even today it is a thorn in the side of debate.
my Grandfather was shot 3 times.. civil war is the worst thing could happen... about the British well.. not that i was surprised we saw many times how Britain act against other countries.
Recent history is not being taught in Greek schools. So the new generations mostly know nothing of all these events that occurred during the 20th century in Greece. To name a few: the civil war, the coop of 1967-1974, the Cyprian revolt of 1974 backed by Greece.
I don't agree with some of it, but good job on doing a video on a such controversial matter that has little to no research available from neutral sources.
Greece was,and still is,a key country in the international policy.Britain would never let Greece to become a communist country, specially under Churchill 's leadership,since the country controls the eastern Mediterranean,the Balkans and the entrance of the Black Sea,the only way for the Russian fleet to warm waters.
We know and the Greek people appreciate the British help to save our country from Communism
There are still bullet holes in Syntagma square.
I saw them a street further as well!
Η τελευταία μάχη που δόθηκε με τον εθνικό στρατό ήταν η μάχη των Μεταξάδων όπου πολέμησε ο παππούς μου, και που δυστυχώς δεν αναφέρεται στα βιβλία ίσως στο διαδίκτυο μόνο.
Thanks for sharing.
When you asked why Churchill would ask the Monarch to return, one must remember that Churchill was an extreme elitist. Churchill was in full support of the Nuremberg trials, but think that Churchill had also taken part in the 2nd. Boer War, when the 1st. Earl Kitchener had turned loose his Army on South Africa in a manner that was almost a mirror image of the worst the Naziś did. Yet when done by the British Army, no complaints, or trials, then.
Elas was a liberation movement. The real culprit was Winston Churchill and the British. Churchill was obsessed by Greece. He started the civil war. He told the British commander to treat Athens as a conquered city, not a liberated one. Elas had mined British headquarters in late December 1944 in retaliation for British perfidity. Elas did not blow up British headquarters as planned because Churchill had come to Athens and was sleeping there. They spared Churchill in honor of Marshall Stalin and President Roosevelt.
My Greeks friends told me that nothing has changes. Greeks are now separated 50/50 on pro-NATO and pro-Russia and in case of WW3 there would be civil war again. Same in Slovakia.
Not really. Today the Greeks are 70% pro western, pro NATO, pro EU.
There is a 30% composed of leftists and right wing nationalists that lean towards Russia, or even China.
That 30% is quite high proportion compared to other European countries, but it is a clear minority.
The second post sounds plausible. Dont know about the exact numbers. Lets hope not another civil war will happen.
I wouldn't say civil war but it would be a lot of civil unrest especially in the north, where people are more religious.. is almost certain
You see during the ottoman times people was hoping that the " great blond nation" will come one day to liberating the from the ottomans
After all we're all orthodox are we?
Of course the Russians used that for their own benefit a classic example was admiral's Orloff campaign that lead to a rebellion of the Greek population that ended up with some regions loosing almost 50% of their population to ottoman reprisals...
Anyways now days the Greek orthodox church made a Saint an monk from" Athos monastic state " that was very deep in conspiracy theories and prophecies of the blond nation taking over Istanbul and handing it over to Greece because" reasons " guess so 🙄
To put it in perspective they are the Greek equivalent of" Q anon "
Without that many guns that is
Nah it’s like 70% nato 30% Russia. Hopefully many people got educated.
@@sirick93 LOL the more educated people in Greece are more pro-Russia. Most Greeks have negative views on the USA. It's only the 30% of illiterate and old men that support pro-NATO. Especially after the USA treated us all those decades.
The EAM controled 90% of the greeκ territory (not population) because it had mercilessly exerminated the other greek resistance teems, such as PAO and 542 Psaros refiment, in order to be the last one standing and take control of the country when the Germans departed. It actually was not fightiong the Germans, but other Greeks..
πονάς Βασιλάκο και φταίει το ΕΑΜ!
thats not accurate at all, and why didnt ELAS exterminated EDES etc?
an interesting story. On Christmas 1944, ELAS sent a small unit consisted of its best engineers, to sneak under the Great Britain Hotel, where the British HQ and the Papandreou Government were stationed. They carried one ton of explosives, through the sewage system, place it on the building's foundations, and were ready to blow the hell out of them. Unexpectedly, Winston Churchill himself visited Athens, these days, and he was staying there. When KKE/EAM found that out, they gave the order to aboard the mission, literally the very last moment, as they thought that killing one of the ww2 victors' great leader would be ''too much'', politically
Didn't know this. Very interesting to read!
@@HistoryHustle ruclips.net/video/u852n_YOkpA/видео.html
After the end of WW2, most countries that took part in the war were now governless. In the case of Greece, the communists who led the resistance during German occupation, felt they deserved a role in the new status quo. However, Britain and Churchil himself had no intention in letting an important area, like the Greek peninsula under communist control. Not only the British got their military in Athens, but the Faliro area in Pireaus was even bombarded by the RAF, killing innocent civilians and destroying buildings and infrastructure. To this very day, the lefts suggest that the British intervention (sic) was no different than the Nazis', and the rights suggest that if it was not for the Brits, Greece would have been another soviet state, like most of the Balkans. In any case, Dekemvriana is another excuse for division in the Greek public opinion.
the zones of influence of the West and the Soviet Union were predetermined at Yalta. The modern Greek state from its foundation was close to England. Stalin had made it clear that he would not offer any help to the Greek communists. The continuation of the armed struggle was purely their own initiative. They also had the help of Yugoslav Bulgarian and Albanian communists. The rebels' chances of success against the Greek army and the English forces were slim to none. These are the events from a historical point of view with objective eyes. Everything else has to do with which ideological perspective everyone sees things from.
Αν δεν επέμβαιναν οι Άγγλοι το '44 που δεν είχαν κανένα λόγο να επέμβουν αφού οι Γερμανοί είχαν ήδη εκδιωχθεί από την ηπειρωτική Ελλάδα οι εξελίξεις de facto θα ήταν άλλες και σίγουρα δεν θα είχαμε συρθεί στον εμφύλιο σπαραγμό. Το πιθανότερο είναι ότι θα είχαμε γίνει κάτι σαν την Γιουγκοσλαβία πολιτικά χωρίς τον Τίτο ή κάποιον αντίστοιχο. Ο Άρης ήταν πολύ μεγάλος για να τον ανεχθεί το ΚΚΕ και στο ΚΚΕ δεν υπήρχε άτομο ανάλογου βεληνεκούς. Ούτε ο ίδιος ο Ζαχαριάδης που δεν είχε καμία επιρροή έξω από τα παλιά μέλη του κόμματος και πάλι όχι πλήρη.
@@nikosk3080 Οι Άγγλοι είχαν λόγο να επέμβουν και μάλιστα πολύ μεγάλο! Στο τελος επενέβησαν και οι Αμερικάνοι στέλνοντας βοήθεια στον εθνικό στρατό. Μιλάμε ουσιαστικά για την πρώτη διαμάχη του ψυχρού πολέμου μεταξύ δύσης και ΕΣΣΔ. Αν άφηναν στους κομμουνιστές την παραμικρή πιθανότητα να επικρατήσουν, η Ελλάδα αυτομάτως έφευγε απ' την επιρροή της δύσης και την κέρδιζε η ΕΣΣΔ. Επίσης οι Γερμανοί δεν εκδιώχθηκαν. Αποχώρησαν γιατί πιέζονταν χρονικα. Δεχόταν επίθεση απ' τους συμμάχους δυτικά και αντεπίθεση απ' τους σοβιετικούς ανατολικά.
@@ΚωνσταντίνοςΧΙ Ο όρος αποχώρηση δεν ταιριάζει σε καμία περίπτωση. Δώδεκα μάχιμες μεραρχίες είχαν στην Ελλάδα στην διάρκεια της κατοχής και οι μεραρχίες αυτές έλειπαν από το ανατολικό μέτωπο ήδη από το 1942 και προς τα εκεί κατευθύνθηκαν μετά την εκδίωξή τους.
Οι Άγγλοι πάλι από την μεριά τους στρατιωτικά δεν είχαν κανένα λόγο να επέμβουν στην Ελλάδα τον Δεκέμβρη του 1944 την ίδια ώρα που αντιμετώπιζαν τεράστιες ελλείψεις και στην Ιταλία και στην δυτική Ευρώπη. Ούτε οι Αμερικάνοι συμφωνούσαν τότε με αυτή την επέμβαση που αποτελούσε προσωπική επιλογή του Τσώρτσιλ που δεν ήθελε να χαλάσει το χατίρι του φυγόμαχου και ολοκληρωτικά απόντα στην διάρκεια της κατοχής βασιλιά.
Γενικά η όλη δράση των Άγγλων στην Ελλάδα σε όλη την διάρκεια της κατοχής υποδαύλιζε τον εμφύλιο ήδη από το βράδυ της ανατίναξης του Γοργοπόταμου. Οι ίδιοι που τον Αύγουστο του '44 μέσω του ΚΓΣΜΑ έδιναν διαταγή να αντιμετωπιστούν τα τάγματα ασφαλείας και οι υπόλοιπες συμμορίες ως στρατός κατοχής, από τον Οκτώβρη και μετά τις προφύλαξαν και τις διατήρησαν οπλισμένες για να τις χρησιμοποιήσουν στην προσχεδιασμένη εμφύλια σύρραξη όπως έκαναν και με τον ελληνικό στρατό της Μέσης Ανατολής.
@@nikosk3080 οι Έλληνες προφανώς και αντιστάθηκαν κατά την περίοδο της κατοχής και πολέμησαν τους Γερμανούς αλλά στη συγκεκριμένη φάση οι Γερμανοί αποχώρησαν. Δεν τους έδιωξε ο ΕΛΑΣ ο ΕΔΕΣ η δεν ξέρω κι εγώ ποιος άλλος. Μάλιστα αποχώρησαν χωρίς να φάνε ούτε μια τουφεκιά. Όσο για τους Άγγλους, ξαναλέω ότι οι ζώνες επιρροής είχαν προκαθοριστεί στη Γιάλτα. Απ' τη στιγμή που την Ελλάδα την έχει κανονιστεί να την πάρει η δύση αλλά την ίδια στιγμή οι κομμουνιστές στην Ελλάδα προσπαθούν να καταλάβουν την εξουσία, τι ακριβώς περίμενες? Να μην επέμβουν? Αν δεν το έκαναν αυτοί θα το έκαναν οι Αμερικάνοι να είσαι σίγουρος.
@@ΚωνσταντίνοςΧΙ Πρέπει να ξαναδιαβάσεις ιστορία. Μόνο "ατουφέκιστοι" δεν έφυγαν απ'την Ελλάδα. Απ'την "μάχη της ηλεκτρικής" στον Πειραιά μέχρι και μέσα στην Γιουγκοσλαβία και την Αλβανία έφυγαν κυνηγημένοι. Είναι η ίδια διαστρέβλωση της ιστορίας με το ότι "οι Ιταλοί ήταν δειλοί και δεν πολέμησαν στην Αλβανία".
Στο θέμα της Γιάλτας τώρα, η ελληνική πλευρά δεν είχε καμία συμμετοχή. Το ίδιο το ΚΚΕ για πολλούς λόγους δεν είχε καμία επαφή με τα "κεντρικά" στην Μόσχα από το 1936 και μετά και ειδικά μετά την έναρξη του πολέμου. Η πρώτη επαφή μελών του ΚΚΕ με σοβιετικούς αξιωματούχους έγινε στο Κάιρο όταν κάποια μέλη του κατέβηκαν για αυτό που εκ του αποτελέσματος έμεινε γνωστό ως "συμφωνία του Λιβάνου" και σε συνθήκες που μόνο ευνοϊκές δεν μπορούν να χαρακτηριστούν αφού τα μέλη της αντιπροσωπείας ήταν ουσιαστικά σε πλήρη απομόνωση όπως είχαν φροντίσει οι Άγγλοι και σε διαρκή πίεση από τους "παλιούς αστούς πολιτικούς" που και πάλι οι Άγγλοι φρόντιζαν να τους παρουσιάζουν παντοδύναμους. Από την άλλη πλευρά, τα μέλη του ΚΚΕ που συμμετείχαν στην αντιπροσωπεία ήταν στην πλειοψηφία τους σοβαροί και μορφωμένοι κομμουνιστές μεν αλλά από την άλλη δραπέτες απ'τις φυλακές και τις εξορίες και απομονωμένοι από το πολιτικό γίγνεσθαι. Δεν είχαν καν συνειδητοποιήσει το πολιτικό μέγεθος και την πραγματική δύναμη και επιρροή του ΕΑΜ ΕΛΑΣ στην ελληνική κοινωνία και εκλιπαρούσαν για την αναγνώρισή του κινήματος από τους φυγόμαχους αστούς πολιτικούς και πρώην διώκτες τους την ίδια στιγμή που είχαν το 60 με 70% της ηπειρωτικής χώρας υπό τον έλεγχό τους.
Αν λοιπόν τα μέλη της αντιπροσωπείας του ΕΑΜ και η αστεία (τουλάχιστον) ηγετική ομάδα του ΚΚΕ είχαν συνείδηση της πραγματικότητας και της πραγματικής δύναμης και θέλησης του λαού τα πράγματα θα ήταν πολύ διαφορετικά. Όπως θα ήταν πολύ διαφορετικά αν ο Τζήμας αποδεχόταν την πρόταση του Τίτο μέσω του Τέμπο (Βουκμάνοβιτς αν θυμάμαι καλά το πραγματικό του όνομα) για βαλκανική συνομοσπονδία. Και πάλι όμως επικράτησαν τα φοβικά σύνδρομα της ηγεσίας του ΚΚΕ και δυστυχώς ποτέ δεν εισακούστηκε ο Άρης ο οποίος έχει και αυτός μεγάλο μέρος της ευθύνης αφού υποτάχθηκε στον Σιάντο και τον Ιωαννίδη και δεν τους πέρασε σε σούβλες όπως τους άξιζε.
This war between the Greeks was decided and planned by the British foreign office from 1943, as they saw that the main resistance force of EAM-ELAS was widespread and powerful amongst the Greek population. So even though war necesities were vital elsewere, the British decided to secure they're mediteranean shipping lines to the crumbling empire. They decided to divided and rule Greece as if it was their paternal right.
The British didn't hesitate to arm and finance the greek battalions that collaborated with the Germans.
NEVER trust the anglo saxons.
might i just say, you haven't talked about all the greek children been sent to other countries for their own safety. my grandad was one of them, he was sent to hungary then migrated to france where my mom was born. from what i know, he was 16 at the time and separeted from his mom. he also lost the greek citizenship and became stateless until he was able to gain french nationality. loads of greek people lost their nationality during the civil war and the greek government only gave it back to them in the 80s i believe. my grandad died a few years ago but only ever talked about this event to my mom once.
Thanks for sharing.
Being Greek I can also attest, like others did before, that the wounds of that civil war last till now, especially between left and right hardcorists. They former still sumarilly call the later "facists" and they in turn call the leftists "bandits". But in general there is a vivid mistrust and scorn for the other side that reaches all the way to the political centre. You see, the Varkiza agreement didn't last for long and the civil war went on for several more years, in the mountains. Many villages were looted for supplies and conscripts, children were at cases forcibly recruited by the rebels or forcibly moved to "safe locations" by the government. Many private disagreements ended up to one neighbour finger-pointing the other as a left or right "enemy or collaborator", depending on who controlled the area at the time! This led to speedy mock trials, tortures and even executions of people who were at times completely innocent to the blames and completely irrelevent to any of the warring sides! Most of these executions by both sides are still regarded as crimes by the others, and revanceism lives on. It seems that Stalin wasn't in favour of a comunist revolution in Greece, but the partisans were rather influenced and aided by the Yugoslav comunist leader at the time, Tito, who was promoting his own agenda for a greater Yugoslavia encompasing Bulgaria as well as the Greek province of Macedonia; another side effect that still endures till our days. The war was essentialy over when Yugoslavia closed its borders to the rebels, leaving them with no safe place to regroup. Many of the defeated communist chose to leave Greece, never to return, establishing immigrent communities in Yugoslavia, Albania and even USSR. I personnaly feel a deep resentment for this whole misfortune. First of all, my birthplace, Epirus, was greatly devastated by it, as it was the battleground of many important clashes, including the communist last stand in mts. Grammos/Vitsi. Family friends and members were amongs the innocent victims or the lucky escapees of firing squads, mostly because of neighbour disagreements as i said above. The general insecurity for jobs and overall living conditions led to mass internal immigration to the big cities, particularly Athens, while the countryside was bled out of manpower and livestock. This escape from the warzone is regarded as the main reason why over half of the Greek population presently resides in Athens, which is a distribution greatly out-of-proportion. My second resentment is towards our allies. You see, the Cold War wasn't cold at all for us, in fact this was the first and one of the few actual wars of post WW2! But while Korea, Vietnam, and even Afganistan received much help from US and/or USSR, we Greeks were left to fight alone, amongst ourselves, and most of the Marshal relief package was spent TO the civil war instead of patching up the harm done by WW2! No additional help was ever offered, to a country that fervently fought against the facists in WW2 and the communists in the Cold War; and as a result was war-ravaged far more than the European average!
Great effort but I noticed many inaccuracies, omissions and mistakes in the recounting of events,
For start,
1. the communist EAM/ELAS had started since 1942-43 a terror campaign in the areas it controlled by killing all Greeks who were deemed monarchists or centrist or simply anti-communist.
Thousands of greeks were summarily executed/murdered by the communists on trumped-up charges as "nazi collaborators" or "black marketeers"
2. All the resistance units that were loyal to the Greek Government were attacked and decimated by the armed forces of the communist EAM/ELAS .
ALL the evidence points that EAM/ELAS was decimating ahead of time any force that could resist the communists in their coup to take-over Greece, and turn it into a USSR Soviet controlled territory .
3. The premeditated events of December for the take-over of the greek government in Athens (hence the :Decemvriana"} take place at A VERY UNFORTUNATE TIME when the Brittish (or any of the allies) CAN SPARE NO FORCES.
In December 1944, AT THE EXACT SAME TIME the Nazi Germany had launched a MAJOR ATTACK against the allies in the Ardennes. Yes, the Battle of the Bulge is taking place simultaneously and there are no allied forces to spare for the defence of Athens.
4. The only force loyal to the Greek Government that arrived prior to the outbreak of the communist coup, was the Greek 3rd Mountain Brigade, that was transferred in a hurry at the end of November 1944 from Rimini , Italy, after it defeated the German army there..
5. The Greek 3rd Mountain Brigade along with units of the Greek National Police (The Gendarmerie) put up HEROIC RESISTANCE against the attacking communist unit.
Just 3 blocks away from where you stood in Syntagma Square, next to the modern Acropolis Museum, you will find the building of the old the "Syntagma Makrigianni" barracks of the Greek National Police.
The "Syntagma Makrigianni" barracks is the site of the most ferocious battles during the communist attack.
A few Companies of Policemen defending the barracks, kept the communists away from conquering the center of the city, where the government was based.
6. It was AFTER the third week in December when the first expeditionary British units arrived in Pireaus, the port city, and started slowly moving north towards Athens.. At that point the situation for the communist forces became unattainable. As the days were going by, the loyal to Greek government forces were holding on the center of Athens in the north while the British forces were encircling the communists in a pincher movement from the south.
Fearing encirclement and decimation, the communist forces withdrew at the end of December 1944 , so ending the attack on Athens.
While the communists were besieging Athens, they massacred thousand of Athenian citizens in a maniacal and sadistic way..
In addition, when the communists withdrew from Athens they took with them thousands of Athenians as hostages, to execute them in case the Greek Army were to chase after the retreating communists.
I see this more as additional information rather than inaccuracies. Thanks for sharing.
Prepare to be called fascist by the Orcs in the comment section🤣🤣🍿🍿🍿.
@@NIKOS_GEROSIDERIS I am used to idiots calling me all sorts of names😂😂
Thank you Stefan! Here in the island of Crete-Greece we didn't had battles during Civil War ! But lots of Cretans became soldiers of the Greek government first with British then with American forces! It was a terrible war like Vietnam but with less American immediate involvement in the fighting! Unfortunately KKE didn't know that in Gialta Russia It was decided that Greece would be 90% controlled by British American! The communist party had lot of power and did the mistake to boycott the first national elections! After that Civil War started! I spoked with a lot of old people here, veterans of the war it was terrible, lots of fanatism with predictable end cause Stalin respected the Gialta agreement so they gave plenty of guns and ammo plus hospitals and training facilities in the northern countries like Bulgaria Albania etc! Greek communist never had lots of soldiers so when they changed their way of fighting from querrila war to a conventional one plus Tito closed the borders with Greece and stop helping the communist cause Tito broke with Stalin, Civil War finished a much bigger disaster than WW2! If you ever want to come here in the island of Crete-Greece to make a video on Battle of 1941 against German paratroopers it will be my honor to meet and help you! I am a history lover particularly military history, my name is Nikos my telephone number +306937619284 I have messenger signal and viber if you like to contact for any extra information!
The references to the civil war are constant. Some right wing voters and politicians refer to the possibility of Greece becoming part of the Soviet bloc (and how all of these countries end up poor and really broke in the 1990s) and some left wing voters and politicians refer to the other side as fascists and collaborationists who changed sides. The problem is that there were reasons people supported EAM/ELAS and the derivative Democratic Army which are intentionally ignored. These reasons were the lack of rights, oppression on some groups of people, financial depression, the behavior of the royal family intervening on governments and parliament functions which ended up to theor downfall in the late 1960s.
Πολυ ωραιο κομμεντ
I am greek and unfortunatelly today most of the greeks dont even remember ww2 let alone the civil wars
This civil war was a struggle of power between those who stayed and fought for liberty in greece and those who left with the defeat of greece in 1941. The elas was successful, more successful than edes simply because Communists knew how to form something thats illegal they were prosecuted since 1929 (officially) and offcouse with the outcome of the civil war they were prosecuted for a long time until Karamanlis decided to let the Communist party form as a legal party after the fall of the military junta. It was a bitter defeat and personally i think that this war didnt even help on anything just created more problems and when you look to italy and france where there was a sense of cohesion to pull societies out of the war you understand that it wasnt actually a ideological war but it was a war about who would monopolize power after the war. Its the same mentality like today where political parties see the state as a place to plunder things for them and their following.
My father was just a child during WWII and when he was old enough drafted into the Nationalist Army. He soon after left Greece and raised me in California. He was never completely open about his political beliefs but told me once that during the WWII everyone was a communist because they were the only ones doing anything. He was born and raised in a small village near Monemvasia.
"old me once that during the WWII everyone was a communist because they were the only ones doing anything. "
He lied. Leftist spread a myth only communists were the resistance. Greek leftists also lie by framing patriots as 'fascists" to hide their shame of treasonously supporting Skopians and totaltarian communist mass murderers Tito and Stalin during the Greek civil war.
The vast majority of the people were with EAM back then. That's what your father meant probably.
No not really , the reason EAM had so many members was because it was the first organization to take action and the little fact that it literally shot all other partizan groups and barely anyone knew about it. Most people who joined didn't consider themselves bolsheviks and this was one of the main troubles of the KKE leadership as is seen in many letters. Now why didn't the non communists desert during the civil war? Because the treaty between KKE and the British backed greek state specifically stated that those who had taken part in military operations directly would undergo trials while the ones acting politically would be pardoned. If the average partizan wanted to desert he was cowed back in line because the leadership literally painted a target on his back.
You could choose to start your video from the houses in Alexandras Avenue, which are not demolished yet (allthough built in the '30s, because of the bullet holes on the walls due the events you describe. the greek comunist party wants them to be declared as monuments of the greek civil war (!) the goverment has the issue in "grey state" all those years. the greek history after the WW2 officialy is 3 things.. The Fall of the greek Junta (and nothing before it) , the acceptance of Greece in European Union and the greek bancrupt in '10s. The rest is history forgotten
Yes! I even took a few shots of that place but totally forgot to put these images in the video. My bad. On my Instagram I have a short video in front of that building though!
bro it would be cool to know about the 30th SS Volunteer Infantry Division 2nd Russian-Belarusian
ruclips.net/video/dbOYmKsp0pU/видео.html
As a Greek who wasn't even born during those times, I am happy that the EAM/ELAS did not win the civil war. I would hate to be born in a communist country, under Stalin's rule.
In the Yalta Conference, Stalin and Churchill had already agreed that Greece would remain under British influence (80%-20%).. that explains why Stalin never supported the Greek communists... there was no point in this civil war, as the outcome was pre-determined by all sides
First who started fire at the crowd were the police officers
It is even felt I the diaspora. In Australia (especially Adelaide) we have two Greek Orthodox Church organisations, the more official one part of the Eastern Orthodox Church generally (under Constantinople) and a community group of ex communists who have a couple to independent parishes. It is a mess.
Hellenic Civil war 1946-1949 ,
1944 the Dekembriana happened
The Communists did not want to strike against the British , the problem was that they were backing the former collaborators with Nazis
British base of operarions was the hotel Britannica , the observation and artillery base was in the Parthenon , knowing that ELAS would never fire over there , before that ELAS and the British had a pact that none would ever take refuge at the historical site , ELAS left the site but right away british red berrets paras took it breaking the pact..
ELAS had managed to rig the entire underground foundations of British HQ (hotel britanica) with TNT ! But at the very last minute it was cancelled fearing that this would trigger a whole new series of Conflict between Greece and England and beyond
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Dear Stefan, thank you for covering the Dekemvriana. Your video has taught me things I did not know. Unfortunately the wounds run very deep. Every family sympathised with one of the two sides. The problem was that after the civil war Greece endured so much political repression & politically motivated murders continued for many years. My family is from Lesbos which was & still is a communist/socialist stronghold. My father's best friend was a guerrilla fighter. May this kind of thing never happen again.
Thanks for sharing this.
Στάθη δυστυχώς πρέπει να ξαναγίνει και θα ξαναγίνει. Όσο κρύβουμε το πρόβλημα κάτω από το χαλί τόσο αυτό γίνεται χειρότερο.
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