Yesss! Read John Gwynne, Mark. It's not grimdark, but I hope you'll love it. Also, even though we disagree on The Poppy War trilogy (with both of you, and I understand how the second book can be immensely infuriating; I wanted to slap Rin non-stop there), I want to say kudos to you, Mike, for praising Licanius trilogy again here. This trilogy, imo, deserve so much more love on Booktube. It's well-praised on Goodreads and other site, but I rarely see anyone praise the series on Booktube. Oh well, taste differs! Btw, Mark is right, Mike. If you're not a fan of military fantasy, I don't think you're missing out on skipping The Black Company. I pushed myself to read it to the fifth book, and I just can't do it anymore. If you want to give it a try, read the first three books, but I'll stop there. As Steven Erikson himself (who love the series) said, Cook's prose can be too terse. And do give The Dagger and the Coin a try!! :)
Ever since a few channels bigger than mine trashed Licanius it seems like no one will try it. Which is ridiculous. So I’ll always be a hype man for it.
I read it because of both of you guys and I absolutely loved it. I almost missed out because people hated on it so much, so thank you both for being honest about what you like!
@@mikesbookreviews It was one of the best "Talk about Nothings" you had so far. I love AP and Phillip too. They are the classical music of Booktubers and you guys are the metal 🤘🤘
I really enjoy Mark's channel, my only problem is he has such enthusiasm for everything he likes i want to by them all. Jealous of the 40 degree weather. I did the conversion and i am 1.4 degree here in Ontario.
"Blood and Souls! Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" I'm so glad Mark mentioned Moorcock. The man deserves more attention. The first Elric Omnibus comes out in February and I can't wait to reread.
Very cool to see the Grimdark Guru (sorry, Mark) here with you, Mike! I’ll be watching in installments, but how is it 40 degrees in Alaska when it’s 18 degrees in New Jersey?
I'm currently reading The Broken Empire. Finished book 2 yesterday. I honestly love it. Jorg is a fascinating psychopath, and his tough armor is slowly cracking. I also love the set up for the world.
Love this collaboration! Mike and Mark are a perfect pairing. Would be great to have a round table with a bunch of guests from the Talk About Nothing series.
Just for clarification. The manifestations of the Eternal Champion are not the same being. The Eternal Champion is a metaphysical concept that manifests as unique beings in times where the Cosmic Balance between Law and Chaos is in danger. If Law and Chaos are not in balance, great and destruction evil arises. The Eternal Champion is kind of like a Ta'varen. They get one special power, to actually use the manifestation of the Black Blade, which is another metaphysical concept. The Eternal champions souls are their own. Its the Eternal Champion part where they are the same And also, for anyone interested in reading Moorcocks's various Eternal Champion series (Elric, Corum and the dozens of others, read the stories in the order he wrote them. They make more sense that way. Even if Moorcock writes later books that occur before earlier ones, he presumes that you read the earlier ones because in some of them uses time travel).
Such a cool conversation! I watched the whole thing in one sitting with a couple cups of coffee and felt like I was in there too ^^ I really feel like I should go ahead and read Prince of Nothing O.O Might start it this year
The grimdark talk reminded me sitting around with others discussing splatterpunk in my college and early post college years. Now I really have no one in my immediate circles to discuss books. Still staying away from Discord with fears of time sinks but booktube has been a blessing for some quick bites and takes. You really only get so much from reviews. It is nice to see conversations like this. Thanks both of you taking the time and giving me ideas what to maybe check out and pick up when something crosses those Kindle deals of the day.
Mike, you need to drop everything you're doing and go watch Brotherhood of the Wolf. The crazy Frenchmen made some banger action scenes. Nobody makes movies like that anymore. Got all the 2nd Apocalypse books right there on my shelf, waiting for me. After Wheel of Time, that's the next big thing on the list. Wish the books didn't come in three different sizes though.
I love Mark! He’s a funny bastard. This was a great chat. Bakkers the fucking best man his books will always be my favorite along with GrrMs. You need to check them out Mike. I also love Lawrence I binge read his first 9 books (3 series) back to back.
My best advice for reading Malazan is a chapter a day - not counting Prologues and Epilogues, as those are very short. A chapter a day, first thing in the morning before you allow yourself to read anything else. I got through the last 5 books in about 6 months this way.
Mike, I wish there was some way I could convince you to read Beyond Redemption sooner rather than later. It is so incredibly awesome and totally unique to anything else out there. Like I wish you would cover his books excitedly on the channel, interview him and everything, just because he's just a hidden gem that deserves more attention and I want to see him reach greater success.
Love this video, great conversations! I love how you introduce us to new people, and give booktubers that have less of a following exposure to your audience, kindness in its greatest form! One of the reasons why I enjoy your channel. He has a Golden Girls shirt on! Totally unexpected, just goes to prove you can’t always judge a book by its cover 😉
Malazan + Second Apocalypse + Book of the New Sun are all 3 all-time favorites of mine for similar reasons 😁 Acts of Caine also fits in somewhere in there...
I'd love to get Mike's perspective on Second Apocalypse, either or both Prince of Nothing and Aspect-Emperor. My problem with it was I had zero grimdark experience prior to reading it, was doing a lot of things like Dresden, Wheel of Time, etc. Honestly, I'd even read the first book or two in ASOIAF, but nothing there prepared me for how heavy and brutal that series was. I'm still not deep into grimdark, but wouldn't mind digging back into the series now that I'm aware of how that story is told.
I can understand wanting to watch the show/movie before the book due to the chance of the adaptation not being faithful. I end up on the opposite side though. I can’t bring myself to read a book when I already watched the adaptation. I assume it is because I revel more in the twists over in depth visualization of the world. I love watching the adaptation after reading the book though to see the attempt at bringing the book to life. Just finished the expanse book series in the beginning of 2022. Watching the show has been amazing!
The dude lives in alaska god damn..he is my.go to grimdark dude but now when i know he libes in alaska i have more respect for the dude. Would love to live in alaska
With those endorsements loos like Bakker is next. Will be a shock after Ship of Destiny. Regarding the last few minutes, it is the same 'when I was your age..' discussion comparing books almost 40 years old, BC 1984, to more recent ones. And how many authors, besides Erickson, were influenced by Cook.
I’ve only read the Prince of Thorns trilogy and I have similar thoughts to Mike, I really liked Prince of Thorns and got diminished returns from the sequels. Been meaning to pick up Red Sister for ages though and those books that “remind you of hanging out with your friends” sounds great to me 😂 And the reaction to Prince of Thorns definitely reminds me of the reaction to Nevernight
Te magic systems part made me laugh. The only magic system I ever really liked (explained) was in "We Are Not Good People" by Jeff Somers (urban fantasy along the lines of Dresden). In it, you need blood to do magic. The more powerful the spell, the more blood needed for the gas to power the spell. So the wizards cut themselves when they cast the spells and the really powerful wizards use bleeders (other people) to bleed for their spells. Other than that system, which is easy to understand, I'd rather just call it magic instead of getting into the RPG aspects of it.
I only read the first two books in black company . I will read book 3 after i finish with malice and the 3rd book in hells reject series. I loved both of those books from black company amazing but i can understand if others dont and i have no problem. Also im huge into military stuff so haha
Actually Dagger and the Coin is not that "economic" really. It is very character driven and interesting. There's no deep economy dive in those books. Or if there is it was hidden very well behind awesome characters and interesting plot, so it was unnoticed by me.
I'm the same about Mark Lawrence....he just doesn't quite work for me. I've read 2 of his books(Prince of Thorns and Red Sister) and they were just ok...nothing I'm looking forward to reading again.
Yesss! Read John Gwynne, Mark. It's not grimdark, but I hope you'll love it. Also, even though we disagree on The Poppy War trilogy (with both of you, and I understand how the second book can be immensely infuriating; I wanted to slap Rin non-stop there), I want to say kudos to you, Mike, for praising Licanius trilogy again here. This trilogy, imo, deserve so much more love on Booktube. It's well-praised on Goodreads and other site, but I rarely see anyone praise the series on Booktube. Oh well, taste differs! Btw, Mark is right, Mike. If you're not a fan of military fantasy, I don't think you're missing out on skipping The Black Company. I pushed myself to read it to the fifth book, and I just can't do it anymore. If you want to give it a try, read the first three books, but I'll stop there. As Steven Erikson himself (who love the series) said, Cook's prose can be too terse. And do give The Dagger and the Coin a try!! :)
Ever since a few channels bigger than mine trashed Licanius it seems like no one will try it. Which is ridiculous. So I’ll always be a hype man for it.
I read it because of both of you guys and I absolutely loved it. I almost missed out because people hated on it so much, so thank you both for being honest about what you like!
I completely agree with Mark about Mark Lawrence’s talent, range, and depth.
One of the best authors in fantasy right now!
Super nice guy too. Use to chat with me a bit when I was on Facebook on little questions about his books.
@@816DawG yes, he is. He actually has a patreon with a discord attached. Its fun chatting.
Mark hit the mark about Mark.
@@bmoneybby 🤣🤣🤣
So excited to watch this! Mark’s reviews speak to my black heart. 🖤
I’m with Mark on Mark Lawrence. All his books are phenomenal. Definitely one of my favorite authors.
Agreed!
RUclips is a great platform for content creators!! Thanks guys 👍🔥🔥
My 2 favorite book reviewers! I love that you guys mostly focus on grimdark and more adult fantasy and horror.
Yess!!! I have been waiting for this collaboration. My two favorite book reviewers.
Hope you enjoyed it!
@@mikesbookreviews It was one of the best "Talk about Nothings" you had so far. I love AP and Phillip too. They are the classical music of Booktubers and you guys are the metal 🤘🤘
Honestly my two favorite book tubers! Great to see the collaboration 👏
Nice! Watching this via headphones while kids are testing!
Holy crap, Mark! I saw Brotherhood of the Wolf in the theatres!!
I just had another friend recommend Prince of Nothing to me TODAY
@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria , you will not be disappointed homie; that entire trilogy will f*ck ya up.
I admire your ability to multi-task.
Love this. Mark is one of my favorite channels
I really enjoy Mark's channel, my only problem is he has such enthusiasm for everything he likes i want to by them all.
Jealous of the 40 degree weather. I did the conversion and i am 1.4 degree here in Ontario.
Sweet jesus
@@JLchevz it's warm now ... It was -23f last week.
@@cmmosher8035 Fellow Ontarian, also on Mark's channel, can confirm, deathly cold for the past week or so, lol
@@Riverpeth hope you are staying warm. Looks like tonight's going to be another bad one
"Blood and Souls! Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!"
I'm so glad Mark mentioned Moorcock. The man deserves more attention. The first Elric Omnibus comes out in February and I can't wait to reread.
Agreed! I’ve read all the Elric, Corum, Hawkmoon and Erekose books over the last 2 years and was blown away by creative, awesome and unique they were.
@@nightmarishcompositions4536 Reads so fresh even to this day, even though it has been copied to death.
I read them probably 40 years ago but kept getting mixed up on the order for which champion was doing what.
This was awesome, Mike (and Mark!) Love watching you guys hang out, please consider doing it again.
Been watching Mark for a while. Cool to see you two chat!
I love Mark, his mannerisms remind me if my older brother. My dude lol. And Mike is just cool and chill.
Very cool to see the Grimdark Guru (sorry, Mark) here with you, Mike! I’ll be watching in installments, but how is it 40 degrees in Alaska when it’s 18 degrees in New Jersey?
Right?? Climate change is a terrible thing
Climate change. It was snowing today in North Carolina
@@currangill430 We got an Arctic blast here in New Jersey!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Great weather for spring break 😒
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy For New Jersey that's normal right? That's in the north. For NC when it snows everyone forgets how to drive lol
Love both of your channels, having a great time with this chat as I slog through my Monday morning
I'm currently reading The Broken Empire. Finished book 2 yesterday. I honestly love it. Jorg is a fascinating psychopath, and his tough armor is slowly cracking. I also love the set up for the world.
Nah mark messed up on the girl and the stars. That was so boring i almost gave up. Im listing to the sequel and its kinda better
This was a great video!! Keep ‘em coming!!!
Really enjoyed Prince of Nothing had heard of it before but Mark got me to delve into it after his reviews
Love this collaboration! Mike and Mark are a perfect pairing.
Would be great to have a round table with a bunch of guests from the Talk About Nothing series.
Just for clarification. The manifestations of the Eternal Champion are not the same being. The Eternal Champion is a metaphysical concept that manifests as unique beings in times where the Cosmic Balance between Law and Chaos is in danger. If Law and Chaos are not in balance, great and destruction evil arises. The Eternal Champion is kind of like a Ta'varen. They get one special power, to actually use the manifestation of the Black Blade, which is another metaphysical concept. The Eternal champions souls are their own. Its the Eternal Champion part where they are the same
And also, for anyone interested in reading Moorcocks's various Eternal Champion series (Elric, Corum and the dozens of others, read the stories in the order he wrote them. They make more sense that way. Even if Moorcock writes later books that occur before earlier ones, he presumes that you read the earlier ones because in some of them uses time travel).
Well here goes a few hours of my morning, lol. Looking forward to the chat. Have a good week! 🙌🏼
So cool of Oliver Peck to find the time to come on the channel !
2 of the best book tubers awesome
Such a cool conversation! I watched the whole thing in one sitting with a couple cups of coffee and felt like I was in there too ^^ I really feel like I should go ahead and read Prince of Nothing O.O Might start it this year
I am so happy to see you guys do this, my two favorite book tubers by far. You two have helped me branch out and double my reading. Thanks 😊
The grimdark talk reminded me sitting around with others discussing splatterpunk in my college and early post college years. Now I really have no one in my immediate circles to discuss books. Still staying away from Discord with fears of time sinks but booktube has been a blessing for some quick bites and takes.
You really only get so much from reviews. It is nice to see conversations like this. Thanks both of you taking the time and giving me ideas what to maybe check out and pick up when something crosses those Kindle deals of the day.
Awesome episode! Mark - you should join the Dark Tower readalong with us!
I was trying to recruit him.
I'm down!!
It's probably just the push i need to get back into it
Mike, you need to drop everything you're doing and go watch Brotherhood of the Wolf. The crazy Frenchmen made some banger action scenes. Nobody makes movies like that anymore.
Got all the 2nd Apocalypse books right there on my shelf, waiting for me. After Wheel of Time, that's the next big thing on the list. Wish the books didn't come in three different sizes though.
Ha ha that’s what Jay Kristoff basically told me.
You guys were a blast!
NICE!!! I missed Mark. Seems like it’s been awhile since his last video.
I love Mark! He’s a funny bastard. This was a great chat. Bakkers the fucking best man his books will always be my favorite along with GrrMs. You need to check them out Mike. I also love Lawrence I binge read his first 9 books (3 series) back to back.
Ah yes!
My two favorites!
hey this is a fun conversation I subbed to Mark too
Being the only guy in your group of buddies that reads totally relatable
You got the grimdark king on here finally
Dude, Vagabond is one of the best!
You really get some good people on your channel, I recently subscribed to Sarah, and I just did for Mark because I dig his vibe.
Just finished «Snakewood» by Adrian Selby, based on the recommendations by Slowly Red and the Brothers Gwynne. Great read!
My best advice for reading Malazan is a chapter a day - not counting Prologues and Epilogues, as those are very short. A chapter a day, first thing in the morning before you allow yourself to read anything else. I got through the last 5 books in about 6 months this way.
Mike, I wish there was some way I could convince you to read Beyond Redemption sooner rather than later. It is so incredibly awesome and totally unique to anything else out there. Like I wish you would cover his books excitedly on the channel, interview him and everything, just because he's just a hidden gem that deserves more attention and I want to see him reach greater success.
Excellent
Mark has an electric personality, and I relate to his tastes, like Star Wars! Looks like I'll be checking out his channel.
Love this video, great conversations! I love how you introduce us to new people, and give booktubers that have less of a following exposure to your audience, kindness in its greatest form! One of the reasons why I enjoy your channel. He has a Golden Girls shirt on! Totally unexpected, just goes to prove you can’t always judge a book by its cover 😉
2 dawgs having a bone. Cheers to this M&M session =)
Thanks mike I really enjoyed this.
Malazan + Second Apocalypse + Book of the New Sun are all 3 all-time favorites of mine for similar reasons 😁 Acts of Caine also fits in somewhere in there...
Thanks for the video
I tapped out on Malazan at Deadhouse Gates. Thank You Mark, now I need to start The Darkness That Comes Before!
And I’ll never forget that moment when Ned is killed A Game of Thorns. Now that changed my perception on what fantasy could be forever.
I'd love to get Mike's perspective on Second Apocalypse, either or both Prince of Nothing and Aspect-Emperor. My problem with it was I had zero grimdark experience prior to reading it, was doing a lot of things like Dresden, Wheel of Time, etc. Honestly, I'd even read the first book or two in ASOIAF, but nothing there prepared me for how heavy and brutal that series was. I'm still not deep into grimdark, but wouldn't mind digging back into the series now that I'm aware of how that story is told.
Legend is one of my favorite fantasy movies 😂 I never thought that I would ever need to see Tom cruise fighting Satan in my life
I can understand wanting to watch the show/movie before the book due to the chance of the adaptation not being faithful. I end up on the opposite side though. I can’t bring myself to read a book when I already watched the adaptation. I assume it is because I revel more in the twists over in depth visualization of the world. I love watching the adaptation after reading the book though to see the attempt at bringing the book to life. Just finished the expanse book series in the beginning of 2022. Watching the show has been amazing!
The dude lives in alaska god damn..he is my.go to grimdark dude but now when i know he libes in alaska i have more respect for the dude. Would love to live in alaska
I can imagine Mike sitting down with his wife before his channel and doing a top 10 Stephen King book for her
Love these!
I agree with Mark, go with Red Queen's War. Much better than Book of Ancestors, and the main characters chemistry is awesome there.
I’m so glad Beyond Redemption isn’t a scratch and sniff book ……
I enjoyed this!
The Red Queens War is my favorite trilogy. Jalan Kendeth is a great character.
Have them come to the BeardFox, I’ll give them something to talk about.
I love the "Eldrich horror" vibes of Blackwing
I was looking into it. Is it a complete trilogy or are there more book coming?
I believe it is a trilogy, get it, it is awesome
I belive it is a finished triology
With those endorsements loos like Bakker is next. Will be a shock after Ship of Destiny.
Regarding the last few minutes, it is the same 'when I was your age..' discussion comparing books almost 40 years old, BC 1984, to more recent ones. And how many authors, besides Erickson, were influenced by Cook.
Mark, I think you'd really enjoy Malazan, now that you have Second Apocalypse under your belt
A where to start on the eu for Star Wars would be awesome! I wanna dive into the Star Wars world but don’t know where to start or why to start where
I’ve only read the Prince of Thorns trilogy and I have similar thoughts to Mike, I really liked Prince of Thorns and got diminished returns from the sequels.
Been meaning to pick up Red Sister for ages though and those books that “remind you of hanging out with your friends” sounds great to me 😂
And the reaction to Prince of Thorns definitely reminds me of the reaction to Nevernight
Oh man the first books I read (after Harry Potter and The Hobbit) were Anne Rice and the Star Wars EU as well 😂
Te magic systems part made me laugh. The only magic system I ever really liked (explained) was in "We Are Not Good People" by Jeff Somers (urban fantasy along the lines of Dresden). In it, you need blood to do magic. The more powerful the spell, the more blood needed for the gas to power the spell. So the wizards cut themselves when they cast the spells and the really powerful wizards use bleeders (other people) to bleed for their spells. Other than that system, which is easy to understand, I'd rather just call it magic instead of getting into the RPG aspects of it.
Broken Empire Prince was awesome! King was Elite!!! Emperor was lame 😂
Mark is like the Alaskan Cheech Marin
I only read the first two books in black company . I will read book 3 after i finish with malice and the 3rd book in hells reject series.
I loved both of those books from black company amazing but i can understand if others dont and i have no problem. Also im huge into military stuff so haha
Good recomandations 14 in colorado lol
Slowly Red cast for Cosca
Actually Dagger and the Coin is not that "economic" really. It is very character driven and interesting. There's no deep economy dive in those books. Or if there is it was hidden very well behind awesome characters and interesting plot, so it was unnoticed by me.
I'm the same about Mark Lawrence....he just doesn't quite work for me. I've read 2 of his books(Prince of Thorns and Red Sister) and they were just ok...nothing I'm looking forward to reading again.
Me neither I am definitely not going to reread malazan 😳😖
love how many F bombs this guy drops lolol
Could you please do a grim dark for beginners
He has, checkout Slowly Reds Grimdark guide on his channel
I would love to hear both of you guys opinion of Heroes Die by Matthew Woodring Stover. It is brutal and I think it is right up yalls alley.
As soon as I made this comment yall started talking about Stover. Please read Heroes Die!
Finally - someone else who likes Thinner. 😄
I really did not like the Witcher show lol