I am a research scientist and have listened to many academic lectures. Your lectures are the best because you formulate and present them with your years of military experience and intilectual insight. Grazie per il vostro servizio
Reality..... .. " On February 29, 1944 the ' British Ministry of lnformation ' sent the following note to the higher British Clergy and to the BBC. ........Sir, l am directed by the Ministry to send you the following circular letter : It is often the duty of the good citizens and of the pious Christians to turn a blind eye on the peculiarities of those associated with us. But the time comes when such peculiarities, while still denied in public, must be taken into account when action by us is called for. We know the methods of rule employed by theBolshevik dictator in Russia itself from, for example, the writings and speaches of the Prime Minister himself during the last twenty years. We know how theRedArmy behaved in Poland in 1920 and in Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Galicia, and Bessarabia only recently. We must, therefore, take into account how theRedArmy will certainly behave when it overruns Central Europe. Unless precautions are taken, the obviously inevitable horrors which will result will throw an undue stain in public opinion in this country. We cannot reform theBolsheviks but we can do our best to save them - and ourselves - from the consequences of their acts. The disclosures of the quarter of a century will render mere denials unconvincing. The only alternative to denial is to distract public attention from the whole subject. Experience has shown that the best distraction in is ' Atrocity Propaganda ' directed against the enemy. Unfortunately the public is no longer so susceptible as in the days of the " Corps Factory ", the " Mutilated Belgian Babies " and the " Crucified Canadians ". Your cooperation is therefore earnestly sought to distract public attention from the doings of theRedArmy by your wholehearted support of various charges against the Germans and Japanese which have been and will be put into circulation by the Ministry. Your expression of belief in such may convince others. I am, Sir, Your obediant servant ( Signed ) H.HEWET, Assistant secretary. The Ministry can enter into no correspondence of any kind with regard to this communication which should only be disclosed to responsible persons. " - pages 209-210, ' Allied Wartime Diplomacy ' by Edward J. Rozek. ☠️☠️ ......ATROCITY PROPAGANDA - " Atrocity propaganda is how we won the war. And we're only really beginning with it now ! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will escalate it until nobody will accept even a good word from the Germans, until all the sympathy they may still have abroad will have been destroyed and they themselves will be so confused that they will no longer know what they are doing. Once that has been achieved, once they begin to run down their own country and their own people, not reluctantly but with eagerness to please the victors, only then will our victory be complete. IT WILL NEVER BE FINAL. Re-education needs careful tending, like an English lawn. Even one moment of negligence, and the weeds crop up again - those indestructible weeds of historical TRUTH. " - SeftonDalmer (1904-1979), former British Chief of ' Black Propaganda ': Said after the German surrender in 1945 in a conversation with the German Professor of lnternation Law Dr.FriedrichGrimm. ☠️☠️☠️........ " Thanks to the terrible power of our International Banks, we have forced the Christians into wars without number. Wars have a special value forJews, since Christians massacre each other and make more room for usJews. Wars are theJews' Harvest, The Jewbanks grow fat on Christian wars. Over 100-million Christians have been swept off the face of the earth by wars, and the end is not yet." - rabbiReichorn, speaking at funeral of Grand rabbiSimeon Ben-Judah, France, 1869.☠️☠️ christiansfortruth.com/post-war-u-s-occupying-forces-believed-germany-justified-in-war-and-hitler-served-his-country-constructively ☠️☠️...Newspaper articles - ' NEW WORLD ORDER PLEDGED TO J E W S ", page 10, ' New York Times ', 6th October, 1940. 2.⚔️.. "The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishingJewish influence throughout the world. " - General George vanHornMosely, ' New York Tribune ', 29th, March, 1939. 3. ☠️☠️.... " JudeaDeclares War OnGermany " - JewsOf The World Unite In Action, ( FrontPage) DAILY EXPRESS, Friday, March 24, 1933. .....worldtruthvideos.website/v/zcJP84
The point about a potential advance of the Italian army towards Germany through Austria in November 1918 is well taken. But (as Ron Wilson has also pointed out in another comment) there was another army which had retaken Belgrade on Nov. 1st 1918 and had already entered Hungary on Nov. 10th to go up the Danube towards Vienna. This was the “Armée d’Orient” under General (later Marshal) Franchet d’Esperey ; this army was made of French (210’000), British (138’000), Greek (157’000), Serbian (119’000) and Italian (48’000) troops - with a contingent of White Russians ; it had broken through the Central power’s armies (essentially Bulgarian with German & Turkish support) in a series of victorious battles between Sept. and Nov. 1918 (Dobro Pole, Doiran, Uksub/Skopje). The Armée d’Orient war on the Macedonian front has been dubbed “the Forgotten war” by historians, but its role in obtaining the Armistice should not be forgotten!
I like the background he gave about Italy itself. Most of the stuff from 1914-on I already knew, but the background stuff isn't something you encounter in WW1 history books. Having that knowledge really puts 1914 into perspective.
Just a few quibbles. The Battle of Adwa, when all things are considered, was not a humiliating defeat. The Italians inflicted many more casualties than they suffered, the General and troops on the ground knew it was a bad idea, the Ethiopians were all armed with firearms and at least decently well organised - most enemies the British and French faced had at most outdated firearms if not just spears. And it was a vanity thing for PM Crispi. And finally instead of being annihilated most of the Italians either escaped or were taken prisoner. As the British especially were not exempt from losing some battles, this was hardly some horrible incompetent debacle like the Battle of Annual. The Italian Army was and is underestimated and when you look more closely, has a better combat record than what stereotypes say.
That's totally true. Many stereotypes regarding italian army. This guy didn’t even mention italo-turkish war for example. Unfortunately, especially in Britain and in the US, there have always been a lot of anti italian propaganda and this can be still seen nowadays
@@ssimossimo576 the Italo-Turkish war that led into the Senussi war you mean? Where a quarter of the population perished? And gas and mass executions were used as means of "pacification" of a forcibly colonized population, with no Italians present up until then? Yeah, no mention of it, as it seems.
Not very deep lecture, for example the Schliffen plan in the first edition included 5 italian corps and 2 cavalry division in front of the French army in Alsace, so more German division could provide the outflanking of the allies troops, and the rest of the Italian Army attempt to pass thrught the Alps in France so some French troops should have been far from the Marne in 1914. With the Italian Ottoman war of the 1912 this collaboration was modified with only 2 corps sended to France. The French Chief of staff would have great trouble to play a 2 front war in 1914 and when in 1915 Italy choose the Entant this was a great relief for French, English and more for Russians because 100k Imperial soldiers moved from eastern front to italian border. The Italian Army according to the numbers didn't suffered for defection more than all the others army during the war. After Caporetto the devensive lines where based on the Piave river and the Monte Grappa fortified mountains according to war plans written around 1880 by the italian major Perrucchetti. Cadorna at the beginning of the war, according to Napoleonic campaign in my modest opinion, was sure that the war coud be win on the Italian front because the Austro Hungarian Army was already exausted by the heavy casualties in the Russian front. A breakthrought on the Isonzo front will open the gates of Vienna and the Empire will surrender very soon opening a new front for the Germans that had to defend the Bavaria, and in 1918 Germany ask for the armistice when the Austro Hungarian ended the war. It's correct that the Italian Army was far less armed than the German, French and British but was on the same level of Austro Hungarian, moreover after Caporetto British officer had to admit that the italian soldiers were brave but the lack of liutenents and sergeant was a problem during the fight, unfortunatly the more trained of them were buried on the Isonzo river during the first 2 years of war. In conclusion as Italian I can read a lot of books on the Italian front and western front as well due to my basic english, the real black hole is the eastern front mostly the Galicia and Austro Hungarian Army.
I agree, in English I have difficulty finding good stuff on the Austrian-Russian fighting in galicia and carpathian mountains, but that's really where Austro-Hungarian troops were most heavily defeated
Thank you for your service, thank you also for that lecture. In 2020 I visited Ljubljana for a fe months to study fortifications in the Ljubljana gap. Very interesting.
Whilst I agree with most of your conclusions, ignoring what was happening on the Balkan front in 1918 was a poor omission. After the collapse of Austria on both it's eastern and southern fronts it wouldn't have just been Italian troops on Germany's southern border.
Informative lecture on a front of the war that many people don't know about. It wasn't all about the Western Front, crucial as that was; there were others theaters as well.
i watched Dr.DiMarco's lecture at the Bob Dole Center, on the Italian Home Front in WWII where he spoke about the dislocation of Italian communities from north to south. it made me laugh. My father was Sicilian from near Palermo; my mother is Swiss Italian from Ticino, which is about as far apart geographically and culturally as Italians get. Both of my parents were born in America but neither spoke English when they started school so at the start of their lives they were cultural European - my mother spoke Italian, German & French; my father only Italian. My home life was a daily lesson in Italy's cultural chasm. That was also an excellent lecture. It is gratifying to listen to a lecture where the lecturer simply elucidates the question without needing to interrupt the flow to show off how smart he or she is. After both lectures, I went away understanding the subject far better than I did before. Thank you, Dr. DiMarco. P.S. Being an Italian speaking American soldier helped my Uncle Dom in an action for which he was awarded the Silver Star in Italy after the battle for Rome around Monte Cassino.
It's nice to see someone talking about this front. But i have to say that there are some details you got wrong. Firstly, there were several major offensives in the apine regions, not only on the Isonzo river. And people were so unwilling to fight in Italy that my greatgrandpa enlisted at 17 years old after stealing his older brother's ID. Also very bad description of why many italian soldiers surrendered after Caporetto. It was because an encirclement with austro-germans troops cutting off many italian divisions, not because of bad gas masks. Also, austrians were "unable to take this hill"? It was Monte Grappa and they didn’t pass because of the tenacious italian resistance. Also the "backing up" by France and Britain during the itallian retreat didn’t have any strategic relevance. This is a bit of a caricatural version of the war. You should have also talked about "vittoria mutilata" when talking about the consequences of the war on the fascist arousal. I should add that, after 11 battles on the Isonzo river, italian plan was actually going accordingly to what expected and desired. Austrians were on the edge of collapse, they wouldn't have most likely been able to face another italian offensive. That's why germans came to help and they had a crucial role in the battle of Caporetto. That said, the conclusions are pretty agreeable. Overall, thanks for lecturing people about this shamely less known decisive front. Simone
I believe whe he said "unable to take the hill" he meant the summit, as in US military lingo "hill" means the highest point (on the map). He does mention it to be a mountain previously several times. I agree on the rest ;)
The Germans provided the assault troops and the chemical engineers, and several division of regular infantry. The Austrians actually didn't even want to attack as they had perfect defensive positions and didn't really want to enter a valley where their numerical inferiority would present problems, it is the Germans that wanted that attack and helped with intent to make the Entente detour troops towards Italy (so their future western offensive gets more room) and see how the new shock troop tactic works out.
In some areas of the US, although incorrect, that is often the pronunciation just due to accent. Dr DiMarco is an awesome historian and the books of his that I've read are great and he's one of my favorite lecturers, so don't take it as a sign of ignorance, he knows his stuff and most certainly understands that the mounted arm of an army doesn't get it's namesake from where Jesus died, although it does grate a bit on the ears. I made exact same error in a video, as I was recording a voice over I did the big dumb saying the wrong word and it still bothers me so much and I so wish I could go back in time and slap myself to catch it as I was reading, or at least while I was editing the video together before I uploaded and it became something that will constantly be pointed out to me in the video's comment section. On the bright side, after reading easily a hundred comments pointing it out, I'll always be super aware of it and never be able to mention the word without hyper awareness of what pronunciation I use.
@@PotentialHistory, I disagree. It’s not an accent thing. It’s simple ignorance and immensely irritating. And the doctor isn’t the one who said it, it was the woman doing the introduction.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881, I really have no response to that. And anything I say to you would be pointless. Have a pleasant day. I just pray I never have to listen to you narrate an audio book.
@@gabrielglouw3589 Of course you don’t have anything to say. You accused a man of being ignorant because he had a different dialect than you while your statement shows that you’re the truly ignorant one for judging a person over such a thing.
The mispronunciation of Luigi Cadorna's name was really annoying as was his failure to build upon the fact that Cadorna probably had more to do with the Italian setbacks than anyone else--including the Austro-Hungarians. I was also annoyed by the nearly 10 minute bio on his family at the start. Look, the he is a great man and we thank him for his service. He has a great family of which he can be justifiably proud. I just didnt tune in to hear that. I was disappointed that he didnt --I dont think--bring up the role of Erwin Rommel in the German campaigns in Italy. And I think the discussion on Victoria Venuto left a good bit to be desired. The Austrians damn near won that fight. I could go on about the effect of the geology of the mountains on the battles and more. The man is obviously very smart and this isnt disrespectful. I just think it could have been more.
If I may add ... pronunciation of Ljubljana and talking about Slovenia in WW1 ... there was no Slovenia back there, Slovenians lived in different lands in Austrian and Hungarian part of AH. And Caporetto ... it is Kobarid or maybe Karfreit, if you want. This was never an Italian town, it was only occupied between 1919 and 1943 by Italy, this was never an italian teritory. As was never an italian teritory a Kanal valley and the Karst region with town of Gorica. Still a painful wound in Slovenian national remembrance.
Unfortunately this lecture is not on the level I've seen from the WW1 Museum. I hope that this part of the war shall receive another lecture that does it right. Here are some things that I believe should be corrected: - Cadorna's name!!! Not so hard, just read it in English as it is spelled, you won't miss much, he's not a Polish general (no offense towards heroic Poles intended, of course). Not only that he sacked hundreds of generals and colonels, he actually openly encouraged death penalties for soldiers, not only for their specific misdeeds but decimation for the misdeeds of the regiment!!! Italy had the highest number of both trials, death penalties and also extrajudicial killings and decimations of any belligerent! - omitting the opponent in the 11 battles of Isonzo: general Svetozar Boroević (yes, you can freely bumble his name, it's much closer to Polish since it is Serbian, no one will take offense as it's common to mispronounce). This since there is a meme that Austria Hungary had two great military leaders: Boroević AND Cadorna ;) Yes, the bulk of other AU military leaders on other fronts were more aux pair to Cadorna (see Potiorek i.e.), but Boroević was a master of defense warfare that really saved Austria in 1915. - twould be nice to pronounce the name of a NATO capital at least somewhat correctly: it would be Lyub-lyana for English speakers (Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenia), since the plan was to get through there into southern Austria and then Vienna. At least try... - in the conflicts prior to WW1 no mention of the much bigger Italian loss than the battle of Custoza (some 8k KIA, WIA, captured) is the loss in the battle of Lissa, a naval attack by the Italian navy into the Adriatic with superior numbers and ship quality. An Austrohungarian fleet hastily scrambled on defense decisively won over a fleet of better and more numerous Italian ironclads using the ramming technique for the last time in modern naval warfare. A decisive win, and quite interesting too, which resonated through Italy much more than the loss at Custoza, forcing the Italians to lower their expectations (Trentino e Trieste later promised in 1915. by Entente). - the battle of Caporetto was not won due to the gas attack, only the most frontal positions on the Isonzo were gassed by imported German engineers, the bulk of the Italian army got surrounded without orders and thus surrendered. The main thrust was by the elite German stormtoopers, of which one was Erwin Rommel as a very successful company commander that took the decisive heights overlooking the gassed valley, thus allowing the full breakthrough. - the Italians after replacing Cadorna with Diaz changed completely into a modern force that accomplished the defense of the Piave. The battle saw the first employment of the Italian counterpart of the stormtroopers, the Arditi, and these guys were also crucial to the later breakthrough storming the river along the British troops in the battle of Vittorio (yes, British troops were also spearheading that battle, not in reserve as stated). - the last batte of Vittorio on 24th October 1918. (Veneto was added later) was actually kicking a dead cow (other than the first breakthrough). This because the AU troops didn't even try to fight back after the first day of fighting, disobeying orders given by the command and deserting en masse. The soldiers just threw their weapons and started walking home, and a lot were taken as POW's during their efforts to return by advancing Italians. In fact, 10 days PRIOR to the battle the AU foreign minister sued for armistice and the Hungarian parliament voted for terminating the union 7 days PRIOR to the battle, and the troops very well knew that. BTW, the other front the AU held (Salonica) was broken a moth prior to the Vittorio. The battle that won it for the Italians was their defense on the Piave, but that really didn't contribute enough to gain all the promised territories since it was achieved with Allied help. - the dealings in 1915. with the British, French and Russians, sealed in the secret Treaty of London were done without knowledge of the other minor Entente allies, and included not only south Tyrol (populated 90% by German speaking population) and the city of Trieste (main Austrian port), but large chunks of the east Adriatic coast (populated mainly by Croats and Slovenes, with significant Italian minority, mostly in Istria), Istria (but not Fiume aka Rijeka! later unlawfully occupied by force!!!), huge area around Zara (practically half of Dalmatia), Vlore in Albania, the Dodecanese islands and Turkish Antalya in the Aegean (no Italians at all!). Some 200k German Austrians and 500k Croats and Slovenes in those territories! - half of this plan floundered when Woodrow Wilson requested that all secret plans be null and void (otherwise USA would not really step in), and since the Italian army failed to deliver. Vittorio Veneto really doesn't count, since the Salonica front was already broken in September, Bulgaria out, Ottomans out, Entente Armee d'Orient closing on Belgrade, AU Army in complete disarray and full retreat and AU itself dissolving internally. - Mussolini (a socialist and opponent to the war in 1914.) and many other later fascist served in that Italian army fighting the 11 battles with horrible results, and were extremely unhappy by the end of the war due to sacrifices made and minor gains from the promised by the Treaty, and this had a major impact into building of the national myth of "vittoria mutilata" pushing Italy into the early fascism already in 1922. (much much earlier than Germany and the stab in the back myth). And this as the Italians still acquired both Trentino e Trieste (Tyrol and Trieste) along Istria and the city of Zara with several islands... never enough... - if talking about families, my Slovene part of the family lived as farmers in the norther Isonzo area close to Gorizia, the village Števerjan exactly in the front positions. My grandmother born in 1912. was carried off in 1915. by the grandgrandmother and the whole family were displaced into eastern Slovenia, never to return as they were not allowed to by the after WW1 Italian goverment. My other grandfather, born a Croat in 1919. in Dalmatia, would either been born as Italian Slav(e) or also likely another refugee deeper in Croatia. The Italian rule towards the Slovenes and Croats was quite harsh even prior to the fascists, let alone after they came to power. Libyans had it even worse. - the southern Alps are not granite but dolomite, which is a sedimentary rock (not igneous like granite), much much softer and easier to dig into. The armies dug the dolomite extensively, forming entire military camps under the mountains, i.e. Col di Lana or Monte Piana, even mining whole mountains under their opoonents... The "castles" were built mostly prior to WW1, and to be honest "castles" were built also everywhere else, Verdun was surrounded by those type of "castles", or Przemysl fortress, or many others... so no, the castles weren't built cause you couldn't dig the "granite rock"...
Why should italy lose it? Austria was more responsible for war as part of germany and the german speaking soldiers from alto adige joined happily the german army rather than italian.
Not a brilliant lecture. Shows the signs, like some other lectures at the WWI Museum, of getting an American to talk about a topic rather than seeking out an international specialist, e.g. the guy who wrote "The White War" . Having a personal connection to the war is not enough. He skims some interesting issues. Mussolini fought and was wounded and never forgot Caporetto. The "arditi" a successful storm trooper sort of group would go on to have a bit influence on the Fascists. That said, many of these lectures are great, but when they take the tops in the field.
The Italians should have stayed out of this war all together. Just like the Spanish and the Swedes. It would have saved them rivers of blood and tears.
I like listening to you speak, would love to hear you break down more of the countries involved from the start. Only one thing, The Schleiffen Plan was pretty much mucked up my moltke the younger nephew. I wish you all would stop dragging a good name like Alfred Von S. thru the mud.
WAY too much info about you and your family. We came to hear about the Italian army, not waste so much time on YOU. Very unprofessional presentation. Too bad, the subject itself should be interesting.
I would respectfully suggest that when you have someone do an introduction they know the difference in pronunciation between Calvary and cavalry. It’s cringeworthy to watch and almost made me click away from an otherwise very engaging lecture.
It's important to give young people the chance to make their mistakes in public where people will correct them, before we earn the expectation of being "experts" after which corrections are done not with an eraser but a saber.
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I am a research scientist and have listened to many academic lectures. Your lectures are the best because you formulate and present them with your years of military experience and intilectual insight. Grazie per il vostro servizio
Reality..... .. " On February 29, 1944 the ' British Ministry of lnformation ' sent the following note to the higher British Clergy and to the BBC. ........Sir, l am directed by the Ministry to send you the following circular letter : It is often the duty of the good citizens and of the pious Christians to turn a blind eye on the peculiarities of those associated with us. But the time comes when such peculiarities, while still denied in public, must be taken into account when action by us is called for. We know the methods of rule employed by theBolshevik dictator in Russia itself from, for example, the writings and speaches of the Prime Minister himself during the last twenty years. We know how theRedArmy behaved in Poland in 1920 and in Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Galicia, and Bessarabia only recently. We must, therefore, take into account how theRedArmy will certainly behave when it overruns Central Europe. Unless precautions are taken, the obviously inevitable horrors which will result will throw an undue stain in public opinion in this country. We cannot reform theBolsheviks but we can do our best to save them - and ourselves - from the consequences of their acts. The disclosures of the quarter of a century will render mere denials unconvincing. The only alternative to denial is to distract public attention from the whole subject. Experience has shown that the best distraction in is ' Atrocity Propaganda ' directed against the enemy. Unfortunately the public is no longer so susceptible as in the days of the " Corps Factory ", the " Mutilated Belgian Babies " and the " Crucified Canadians ". Your cooperation is therefore earnestly sought to distract public attention from the doings of theRedArmy by your wholehearted support of various charges against the Germans and Japanese which have been and will be put into circulation by the Ministry. Your expression of belief in such may convince others. I am, Sir, Your obediant servant ( Signed ) H.HEWET, Assistant secretary. The Ministry can enter into no correspondence of any kind with regard to this communication which should only be disclosed to responsible persons. " - pages 209-210, ' Allied Wartime Diplomacy ' by Edward J. Rozek.
☠️☠️ ......ATROCITY PROPAGANDA - " Atrocity propaganda is how we won the war. And we're only really beginning with it now ! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will escalate it until nobody will accept even a good word from the Germans, until all the sympathy they may still have abroad will have been destroyed and they themselves will be so confused that they will no longer know what they are doing. Once that has been achieved, once they begin to run down their own country and their own people, not reluctantly but with eagerness to please the victors, only then will our victory be complete. IT WILL NEVER BE FINAL. Re-education needs careful tending, like an English lawn. Even one moment of negligence, and the weeds crop up again - those indestructible weeds of historical TRUTH. " - SeftonDalmer (1904-1979), former British Chief of ' Black Propaganda ': Said after the German surrender in 1945 in a conversation with the German Professor of lnternation Law Dr.FriedrichGrimm. ☠️☠️☠️........ " Thanks to the terrible power of our International Banks, we have forced the Christians into wars without number. Wars have a special value forJews, since Christians massacre each other and make more room for usJews. Wars are theJews' Harvest, The Jewbanks grow fat on Christian wars. Over 100-million Christians have been swept off the face of the earth by wars, and the end is not yet." - rabbiReichorn, speaking at funeral of Grand rabbiSimeon Ben-Judah, France, 1869.☠️☠️ christiansfortruth.com/post-war-u-s-occupying-forces-believed-germany-justified-in-war-and-hitler-served-his-country-constructively ☠️☠️...Newspaper articles - ' NEW WORLD ORDER PLEDGED TO J E W S ", page 10, ' New York Times ', 6th October, 1940. 2.⚔️.. "The war now proposed is for the purpose of establishingJewish influence throughout the world. " - General George vanHornMosely, ' New York Tribune ', 29th, March, 1939. 3. ☠️☠️.... " JudeaDeclares War OnGermany " - JewsOf The World Unite In Action, ( FrontPage) DAILY EXPRESS, Friday, March 24, 1933. .....worldtruthvideos.website/v/zcJP84
The point about a potential advance of the Italian army towards Germany through Austria in November 1918 is well taken.
But (as Ron Wilson has also pointed out in another comment) there was another army which had retaken Belgrade on Nov. 1st 1918 and had already entered Hungary on Nov. 10th to go up the Danube towards Vienna.
This was the “Armée d’Orient” under General (later Marshal) Franchet d’Esperey ; this army was made of French (210’000), British (138’000), Greek (157’000), Serbian (119’000) and Italian (48’000) troops - with a contingent of White Russians ; it had broken through the Central power’s armies (essentially Bulgarian with German & Turkish support) in a series of victorious battles between Sept. and Nov. 1918 (Dobro Pole, Doiran, Uksub/Skopje). The Armée d’Orient war on the Macedonian front has been dubbed “the Forgotten war” by historians, but its role in obtaining the Armistice should not be forgotten!
This man called the commander of the Italians Cordova, his name was Cadorna. He doesn’t come even close.
I like the background he gave about Italy itself. Most of the stuff from 1914-on I already knew, but the background stuff isn't something you encounter in WW1 history books. Having that knowledge really puts 1914 into perspective.
Just a few quibbles. The Battle of Adwa, when all things are considered, was not a humiliating defeat. The Italians inflicted many more casualties than they suffered, the General and troops on the ground knew it was a bad idea, the Ethiopians were all armed with firearms and at least decently well organised - most enemies the British and French faced had at most outdated firearms if not just spears. And it was a vanity thing for PM Crispi. And finally instead of being annihilated most of the Italians either escaped or were taken prisoner. As the British especially were not exempt from losing some battles, this was hardly some horrible incompetent debacle like the Battle of Annual. The Italian Army was and is underestimated and when you look more closely, has a better combat record than what stereotypes say.
That's totally true. Many stereotypes regarding italian army. This guy didn’t even mention italo-turkish war for example.
Unfortunately, especially in Britain and in the US, there have always been a lot of anti italian propaganda and this can be still seen nowadays
@@ssimossimo576 the Italo-Turkish war that led into the Senussi war you mean? Where a quarter of the population perished? And gas and mass executions were used as means of "pacification" of a forcibly colonized population, with no Italians present up until then? Yeah, no mention of it, as it seems.
[05:55] Start
[12:41] Lecture starts
Not very deep lecture, for example the Schliffen plan in the first edition included 5 italian corps and 2 cavalry division in front of the French army in Alsace, so more German division could provide the outflanking of the allies troops, and the rest of the Italian Army attempt to pass thrught the Alps in France so some French troops should have been far from the Marne in 1914. With the Italian Ottoman war of the 1912 this collaboration was modified with only 2 corps sended to France. The French Chief of staff would have great trouble to play a 2 front war in 1914 and when in 1915 Italy choose the Entant this was a great relief for French, English and more for Russians because 100k Imperial soldiers moved from eastern front to italian border. The Italian Army according to the numbers didn't suffered for defection more than all the others army during the war. After Caporetto the devensive lines where based on the Piave river and the Monte Grappa fortified mountains according to war plans written around 1880 by the italian major Perrucchetti. Cadorna at the beginning of the war, according to Napoleonic campaign in my modest opinion, was sure that the war coud be win on the Italian front because the Austro Hungarian Army was already exausted by the heavy casualties in the Russian front. A breakthrought on the Isonzo front will open the gates of Vienna and the Empire will surrender very soon opening a new front for the Germans that had to defend the Bavaria, and in 1918 Germany ask for the armistice when the Austro Hungarian ended the war. It's correct that the Italian Army was far less armed than the German, French and British but was on the same level of Austro Hungarian, moreover after Caporetto British officer had to admit that the italian soldiers were brave but the lack of liutenents and sergeant was a problem during the fight, unfortunatly the more trained of them were buried on the Isonzo river during the first 2 years of war. In conclusion as Italian I can read a lot of books on the Italian front and western front as well due to my basic english, the real black hole is the eastern front mostly the Galicia and Austro Hungarian Army.
I agree, in English I have difficulty finding good stuff on the Austrian-Russian fighting in galicia and carpathian mountains, but that's really where Austro-Hungarian troops were most heavily defeated
Austria here. Thanks for posting.
Thank you for your service, thank you also for that lecture. In 2020 I visited Ljubljana for a fe months to study fortifications in the Ljubljana gap. Very interesting.
Thank you. Great lecture.
Whilst I agree with most of your conclusions, ignoring what was happening on the Balkan front in 1918 was a poor omission. After the collapse of Austria on both it's eastern and southern fronts it wouldn't have just been Italian troops on Germany's southern border.
why does he pronounce "Cadorna" as "cordova"?
Fascinating, great lecture
Lol yeah the allies had a habit of forgetting about italy after that check was cashed
How can it be that he mistakes the name of the Italian Army's CinC whilst lecturing as an expert on the Italian Army?
Informative lecture on a front of the war that many people don't know about. It wasn't all about the Western Front, crucial as that was; there were others theaters as well.
i watched Dr.DiMarco's lecture at the Bob Dole Center, on the Italian Home Front in WWII where he spoke about the dislocation of Italian communities from north to south. it made me laugh. My father was Sicilian from near Palermo; my mother is Swiss Italian from Ticino, which is about as far apart geographically and culturally as Italians get. Both of my parents were born in America but neither spoke English when they started school so at the start of their lives they were cultural European - my mother spoke Italian, German & French; my father only Italian. My home life was a daily lesson in Italy's cultural chasm. That was also an excellent lecture. It is gratifying to listen to a lecture where the lecturer simply elucidates the question without needing to interrupt the flow to show off how smart he or she is. After both lectures, I went away understanding the subject far better than I did before. Thank you, Dr. DiMarco. P.S. Being an Italian speaking American soldier helped my Uncle Dom in an action for which he was awarded the Silver Star in Italy after the battle for Rome around Monte Cassino.
Genuinely interesting lecture! Worth the time to take in.
Excellent presentation, well done. The presenter seemed a little distracted a few times but very informative.
It's nice to see someone talking about this front. But i have to say that there are some details you got wrong. Firstly, there were several major offensives in the apine regions, not only on the Isonzo river. And people were so unwilling to fight in Italy that my greatgrandpa enlisted at 17 years old after stealing his older brother's ID. Also very bad description of why many italian soldiers surrendered after Caporetto. It was because an encirclement with austro-germans troops cutting off many italian divisions, not because of bad gas masks. Also, austrians were "unable to take this hill"? It was Monte Grappa and they didn’t pass because of the tenacious italian resistance. Also the "backing up" by France and Britain during the itallian retreat didn’t have any strategic relevance. This is a bit of a caricatural version of the war. You should have also talked about "vittoria mutilata" when talking about the consequences of the war on the fascist arousal. I should add that, after 11 battles on the Isonzo river, italian plan was actually going accordingly to what expected and desired. Austrians were on the edge of collapse, they wouldn't have most likely been able to face another italian offensive. That's why germans came to help and they had a crucial role in the battle of Caporetto. That said, the conclusions are pretty agreeable.
Overall, thanks for lecturing people about this shamely less known decisive front.
Simone
I believe whe he said "unable to take the hill" he meant the summit, as in US military lingo "hill" means the highest point (on the map). He does mention it to be a mountain previously several times. I agree on the rest ;)
12:41 starts
Aviano Air Base
"Return with Honor"
Thanks a lot from Italy.
Too much on family. 30min mentions AXIS ???! 40.30 min Caperetto it was a GERMAN attack!? not Austrian. Not GOOD!
it was combined ofansive from both germany and a-h, troops from easteren front when russia colapsed
The Germans provided the assault troops and the chemical engineers, and several division of regular infantry. The Austrians actually didn't even want to attack as they had perfect defensive positions and didn't really want to enter a valley where their numerical inferiority would present problems, it is the Germans that wanted that attack and helped with intent to make the Entente detour troops towards Italy (so their future western offensive gets more room) and see how the new shock troop tactic works out.
Is the presenter really saying "calvary" or am I just hearing poorly.
In some areas of the US, although incorrect, that is often the pronunciation just due to accent. Dr DiMarco is an awesome historian and the books of his that I've read are great and he's one of my favorite lecturers, so don't take it as a sign of ignorance, he knows his stuff and most certainly understands that the mounted arm of an army doesn't get it's namesake from where Jesus died, although it does grate a bit on the ears. I made exact same error in a video, as I was recording a voice over I did the big dumb saying the wrong word and it still bothers me so much and I so wish I could go back in time and slap myself to catch it as I was reading, or at least while I was editing the video together before I uploaded and it became something that will constantly be pointed out to me in the video's comment section. On the bright side, after reading easily a hundred comments pointing it out, I'll always be super aware of it and never be able to mention the word without hyper awareness of what pronunciation I use.
@@PotentialHistory, I disagree. It’s not an accent thing. It’s simple ignorance and immensely irritating. And the doctor isn’t the one who said it, it was the woman doing the introduction.
@@gabrielglouw3589 You’re free to disagree, but it doesn’t mean you’re correct.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881, I really have no response to that. And anything I say to you would be pointless. Have a pleasant day. I just pray I never have to listen to you narrate an audio book.
@@gabrielglouw3589 Of course you don’t have anything to say. You accused a man of being ignorant because he had a different dialect than you while your statement shows that you’re the truly ignorant one for judging a person over such a thing.
The mispronunciation of Luigi Cadorna's name was really annoying as was his failure to build upon the fact that Cadorna probably had more to do with the Italian setbacks than anyone else--including the Austro-Hungarians. I was also annoyed by the nearly 10 minute bio on his family at the start. Look, the he is a great man and we thank him for his service. He has a great family of which he can be justifiably proud. I just didnt tune in to hear that. I was disappointed that he didnt --I dont think--bring up the role of Erwin Rommel in the German campaigns in Italy. And I think the discussion on Victoria Venuto left a good bit to be desired. The Austrians damn near won that fight. I could go on about the effect of the geology of the mountains on the battles and more. The man is obviously very smart and this isnt disrespectful. I just think it could have been more.
If I may add ... pronunciation of Ljubljana and talking about Slovenia in WW1 ... there was no Slovenia back there, Slovenians lived in different lands in Austrian and Hungarian part of AH.
And Caporetto ... it is Kobarid or maybe Karfreit, if you want. This was never an Italian town, it was only occupied between 1919 and 1943 by Italy, this was never an italian teritory. As was never an italian teritory a Kanal valley and the Karst region with town of Gorica. Still a painful wound in Slovenian national remembrance.
@@kristijanploj5625Gorizia not Gorica. It was always an Italian inhabited town
Austrians have never been even close to win in Vittorio Veneto
Nearly won? In what alternative reality? The Austrians at Caporetto got obliterated.
Great story teller, if he could just not say "uh" every other word, Lord have mercy!
Also the awful Italian General is Cadorna, not Cordova or Cordoba like he's saying
General Cordova was a hero in the war that liberated Columbia from Peru... maybe...
Unfortunately this lecture is not on the level I've seen from the WW1 Museum. I hope that this part of the war shall receive another lecture that does it right. Here are some things that I believe should be corrected:
- Cadorna's name!!! Not so hard, just read it in English as it is spelled, you won't miss much, he's not a Polish general (no offense towards heroic Poles intended, of course). Not only that he sacked hundreds of generals and colonels, he actually openly encouraged death penalties for soldiers, not only for their specific misdeeds but decimation for the misdeeds of the regiment!!! Italy had the highest number of both trials, death penalties and also extrajudicial killings and decimations of any belligerent!
- omitting the opponent in the 11 battles of Isonzo: general Svetozar Boroević (yes, you can freely bumble his name, it's much closer to Polish since it is Serbian, no one will take offense as it's common to mispronounce). This since there is a meme that Austria Hungary had two great military leaders: Boroević AND Cadorna ;)
Yes, the bulk of other AU military leaders on other fronts were more aux pair to Cadorna (see Potiorek i.e.), but Boroević was a master of defense warfare that really saved Austria in 1915.
- twould be nice to pronounce the name of a NATO capital at least somewhat correctly: it would be Lyub-lyana for English speakers (Ljubljana, the capital of Slovenia), since the plan was to get through there into southern Austria and then Vienna. At least try...
- in the conflicts prior to WW1 no mention of the much bigger Italian loss than the battle of Custoza (some 8k KIA, WIA, captured) is the loss in the battle of Lissa, a naval attack by the Italian navy into the Adriatic with superior numbers and ship quality. An Austrohungarian fleet hastily scrambled on defense decisively won over a fleet of better and more numerous Italian ironclads using the ramming technique for the last time in modern naval warfare. A decisive win, and quite interesting too, which resonated through Italy much more than the loss at Custoza, forcing the Italians to lower their expectations (Trentino e Trieste later promised in 1915. by Entente).
- the battle of Caporetto was not won due to the gas attack, only the most frontal positions on the Isonzo were gassed by imported German engineers, the bulk of the Italian army got surrounded without orders and thus surrendered. The main thrust was by the elite German stormtoopers, of which one was Erwin Rommel as a very successful company commander that took the decisive heights overlooking the gassed valley, thus allowing the full breakthrough.
- the Italians after replacing Cadorna with Diaz changed completely into a modern force that accomplished the defense of the Piave. The battle saw the first employment of the Italian counterpart of the stormtroopers, the Arditi, and these guys were also crucial to the later breakthrough storming the river along the British troops in the battle of Vittorio (yes, British troops were also spearheading that battle, not in reserve as stated).
- the last batte of Vittorio on 24th October 1918. (Veneto was added later) was actually kicking a dead cow (other than the first breakthrough).
This because the AU troops didn't even try to fight back after the first day of fighting, disobeying orders given by the command and deserting en masse. The soldiers just threw their weapons and started walking home, and a lot were taken as POW's during their efforts to return by advancing Italians.
In fact, 10 days PRIOR to the battle the AU foreign minister sued for armistice and the Hungarian parliament voted for terminating the union 7 days PRIOR to the battle, and the troops very well knew that. BTW, the other front the AU held (Salonica) was broken a moth prior to the Vittorio.
The battle that won it for the Italians was their defense on the Piave, but that really didn't contribute enough to gain all the promised territories since it was achieved with Allied help.
- the dealings in 1915. with the British, French and Russians, sealed in the secret Treaty of London were done without knowledge of the other minor Entente allies, and included not only south Tyrol (populated 90% by German speaking population) and the city of Trieste (main Austrian port), but large chunks of the east Adriatic coast (populated mainly by Croats and Slovenes, with significant Italian minority, mostly in Istria), Istria (but not Fiume aka Rijeka! later unlawfully occupied by force!!!), huge area around Zara (practically half of Dalmatia), Vlore in Albania, the Dodecanese islands and Turkish Antalya in the Aegean (no Italians at all!). Some 200k German Austrians and 500k Croats and Slovenes in those territories!
- half of this plan floundered when Woodrow Wilson requested that all secret plans be null and void (otherwise USA would not really step in), and since the Italian army failed to deliver. Vittorio Veneto really doesn't count, since the Salonica front was already broken in September, Bulgaria out, Ottomans out, Entente Armee d'Orient closing on Belgrade, AU Army in complete disarray and full retreat and AU itself dissolving internally.
- Mussolini (a socialist and opponent to the war in 1914.) and many other later fascist served in that Italian army fighting the 11 battles with horrible results, and were extremely unhappy by the end of the war due to sacrifices made and minor gains from the promised by the Treaty, and this had a major impact into building of the national myth of "vittoria mutilata" pushing Italy into the early fascism already in 1922. (much much earlier than Germany and the stab in the back myth). And this as the Italians still acquired both Trentino e Trieste (Tyrol and Trieste) along Istria and the city of Zara with several islands... never enough...
- if talking about families, my Slovene part of the family lived as farmers in the norther Isonzo area close to Gorizia, the village Števerjan exactly in the front positions. My grandmother born in 1912. was carried off in 1915. by the grandgrandmother and the whole family were displaced into eastern Slovenia, never to return as they were not allowed to by the after WW1 Italian goverment. My other grandfather, born a Croat in 1919. in Dalmatia, would either been born as Italian Slav(e) or also likely another refugee deeper in Croatia. The Italian rule towards the Slovenes and Croats was quite harsh even prior to the fascists, let alone after they came to power. Libyans had it even worse.
- the southern Alps are not granite but dolomite, which is a sedimentary rock (not igneous like granite), much much softer and easier to dig into. The armies dug the dolomite extensively, forming entire military camps under the mountains, i.e. Col di Lana or Monte Piana, even mining whole mountains under their opoonents... The "castles" were built mostly prior to WW1, and to be honest "castles" were built also everywhere else, Verdun was surrounded by those type of "castles", or Przemysl fortress, or many others... so no, the castles weren't built cause you couldn't dig the "granite rock"...
aaahhh
The fact that in 1918 they did gain South Tyrol and did not loose it in 1947 is outrageous
Why should italy lose it? Austria was more responsible for war as part of germany and the german speaking soldiers from alto adige joined happily the german army rather than italian.
Not a brilliant lecture. Shows the signs, like some other lectures at the WWI Museum, of getting an American to talk about a topic rather than seeking out an international specialist, e.g. the guy who wrote "The White War" . Having a personal connection to the war is not enough. He skims some interesting issues. Mussolini fought and was wounded and never forgot Caporetto. The "arditi" a successful storm trooper sort of group would go on to have a bit influence on the Fascists. That said, many of these lectures are great, but when they take the tops in the field.
The Italians should have stayed out of this war all together.
Just like the Spanish and the Swedes.
It would have saved them rivers of blood and tears.
But my house in South Tyrol is very nice!
I like listening to you speak, would love to hear you break down more of the countries involved from the start. Only one thing, The Schleiffen Plan was pretty much mucked up my moltke the younger nephew. I wish you all would stop dragging a good name like Alfred Von S. thru the mud.
WAY too much info about you and your family. We came to hear about the Italian army, not waste so much time on YOU. Very unprofessional presentation. Too bad, the subject itself should be interesting.
It’s was only the first 10 minutes not a big deal
I would respectfully suggest that when you have someone do an introduction they know the difference in pronunciation between Calvary and cavalry. It’s cringeworthy to watch and almost made me click away from an otherwise very engaging lecture.
Agree. Engaging lecture. But I almost clicked away the 200th time he said uh.
Stop uh, saying, uh, Uh, between uh, thoughts.
It's important to give young people the chance to make their mistakes in public where people will correct them, before we earn the expectation of being "experts" after which corrections are done not with an eraser but a saber.