I'm so glad people are mentioning low level listening these days. I think it's a really important part of HiFi listening - "late night" low volume focused listening, and some speakers and amplifiers seem to do it much better than others. I really like to hear how well certain products do when played quietly.
The Mirage M1 was exceptional at low volume listening. The bass balance wasn't lost with reduced volume. It was if it had a loudness control built in. I would arrive home many times 2am or 3am and settle down for some listening without disturbing others in the household who were asleep.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Thank you for that info Carlos. I was barely aware of the Mirage M1 when it was in production. I'll have to pay attention the next time I see them.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt surprisingly my coaxial horn PA speakers do well at low volume, and the vented woofers. I've heard people say that passive radiator designs can have a bit of stiffness to resonance at very low volume and need a bit of oomph to break the initial rigidity of the surround. Ported designs can play level as quiet as you like due to no "stiction" in the port air. The only limitation is your reduced sensitivity to bass at low volume.
I'm flat out addicted to the visceral qualities of my open baffle speakers (full range(-2db @20hz at listening position), 18" bottoms, 12" mids and compression driver/waveguide), The textural depth revealed by the lack of box, along with the relaxed presentation, tone, and concert scale... have captured my heart. Mine are lacking the smoothness of $$$$$ hifi speakers, but they are musical and engaging and honest... and the one thing I actually think $$$$$$ hifi speakers have over done.... is their endless smoothness (and way overdone 'slam')...
I built a pair of large open baffles with twin 15" and compression driver with waveguide in an MTM config back in 2013 and it was an eye opener for me as well. Very effortless and dynamic so I am wrecked for anything small. Nothing else sounds real.
Saw these at the New York Audio Show. I Liked them even though most of the demo music was more typical audiophile show stuff. Later in the day when the crowd thinned out they played some more impactful music. The mid-hi frequency driver was pretty amazing - made of wood!
But the review is about very efficient speakers that require only a few Watts of power. And they're not huge at 48 inches height, if you compare them to truly huge speakers.
Yep. I haven't heard these speakers, but have the Legacy Audio Aeris (which have the same area of mid-woofer to sub-woofer drivers compared to the dual 15 inch drivers). Going from a hybrid electrostatic Martin Logan SL 3 with a single 10 inch woofer to a box speaker with so much more mid-range to sub-woofer driver area was really a massive difference. It was not something I expected. There is a sense of easy bigness. There is a sometimes a sense that the sound stage even surrounds you (even though all the music is in front of you) at a reasonable (75dB) listening level. I've had people ask if I have surround speakers, even though there aren't any. When it comes to bass, you can feel the waves of bass come up from the floor to your body. However, it is my sense that this comes from the pressurization that the speaker creates in the room (where a resonant node moves towards you). It is quite a different sonic experience than small driver speakers. Certainly worth trying out open-baffle large driver area speakers if one is in the market.
Thank you so much Steve for this review, I find you, as a reviewer for audio, to be quite a bit ahead of your competition. Your videos seem to have a lot more information and complexity of thought when it comes to what makes the experience of listening to music so pleasurable. I am really glad to see more information on Pure Audio Project and I am still quite interested in what other iterations of this speaker sound like. I remember another review you did about how much speaker companies spend on engineering the box and it is nice to hear from you what happens when a company spends it on drivers. I wouldn't mind hearing a review of the modular trios with the horn.
7/2024: Hi Steve, from the Future. IMO, Bigger Is Always Better! Cool to see you so excited about a pair of speakers. They are truly Magnificent. Thank You & Best Regards.
....hey thanks for all the ear candy..no music samples.? Its not the same as having a live hearing interaction..but its something better then nothing..music samples next time please..
I dig it! I heard them while you were describing them. They'll be my dream speakers for sure. I won't be surprised to see those in mastering rooms. Thank you Steve, I enjoy your content. 🙏
I build almost identical speakers mounted on stone baffle and I love them. Was very happy when I saw title of your review because I respect your audio knowledge a lot!
thank you for addressing the issue of scale, and how some audio experiences are completely scale-specific, and can not be intuited nor analogized by substitution.
Great review. Now imagine the PureAudioProject Quintet15 with 2 more of those wonderful woofers, plus a midrange/tweeter upgrade to the Voxativ AC-4a driver with Alnico magnet. Out of this world!
When I visited NY Audio Show last week, PureAudioProject room was first thing to do. I must say that I wasn't super impressed, they are really good but they don't excel in anything particular. For example, low end is missing kick and clarity considering 4 x 15" woofers, they were lacking in details also (more than expected) and not as open sounding as i would imagine. The soundstage could be better for OB speakers and imaging is pretty poor. To describe them more metaphorically I would say that they are Jack of all trades but master of none, which is actually not a bad thing at all, they just don't excite in any department and left me wanting more. I would also say that given the proper room size and treatment they could potentially be outstanding speakers. As usually Steve, thanks a lot for the review.
Could have been that the amp was too weak. 🤔 I mean that Whammerdyne was like 6 Watts a channel. Even First Watts have at least twice as much power as that amp (which is more fit for something like a hORNS Universum (100db/W), though they still benefit of something beefier.
No substitute for large drivers and a large baffle. They provide a "scale" to the sound that better approximates live instruments that mini monitors and small driver speakers can't match. This sense of scale is an important but often neglected aspect of sound realism. I love "big" sound and so do most people. It's often the reason very large speakers are chosen as "best sound at audio shows".
I changed mine to biamplified through a minidsp, and in WWFR config. Also modified baffles and their mounts with vibration isolation and angled backwards. I cross at 150 hz, 8th order now.
The thing I have a hard time adjusting to is after listing to music on modern speaker systems with a subwoofer(s) having that deep powerful bass then listening to say good vintage speakers is the bass seems on the weak side thinking what is going on? so I have to recalibrate also, after a while the amount of bass from a typical loud speaker produces sounds great then on the flipside going back to speakers utilizing a sub the bass seems bit excessive finding myself turning the sub back. But now speakers I always thought had really great bass don't seem to now just from incorporating a subwoofer normally. But deep bass is very very addictive to alot of folks...
Just on the face of it I find it a bit hard to believe a 15" driver will truly reproduce mid bass in an accurate manner up to 400 hZ and at the same time produce tight deep bass. As to a sub you really aren't supposed to hear it so if it is excessive you did the right thing turning it down.
@@JohnDoe-np3zk well I like very music bass heavy so I run bass levels higher than opinion of the "correct" level of a subwoofer seamlessly blending in with the mains, yeah there's a point of serious bass oversaturation I'm not referring to that I like the sub adjusted so seems the mains just have a powerful low end to the point that is not heard in a typical well engineered quality loud speaker. Can I tell there's a sub in the mix I'd say yes but whatever. Besides there's litterly no correct way for a person to listen there audio, it's whatever appeals to what listener finds enjoyable whether it's bright highs, hollow mids or brutal lows everyone's idea of just right is different... There's people out there that prefer there subwoofer to drown out the rest of the frequencies, whatever... Que Sera Sera.
@@gurdyman1 in fairness I would need to hear it. I do like the efficiency of these vs. my Infinity Kappa 8s. The 12" woofer on the 8s crosses over at 80 hZ and the midbass driver at 500 hZ. The woofer is carbon graphite and stiff as a freaking board. Just like you need.
Absolutely the cat's ass when you want to replicate Rush at Madison Square Garden in your living room. Add some earplugs and some smoke, and off you go. ;) [Uh oh, incoming...]
Yes, Yes, Yes. Probably the best review you've ever done. Maybe because I agreed with every word. lol. I luv that you are using Klipsch Cornwalls as a comparison basis. That's a severe comparison test basis. So many lessor reviewers use another (Ho-Hum who cares) cone speaker that has minimal differences to begin with, and subsequently the review is a bore. Please keep using Klipsch as the standard for comparison - it should be. Yur not gittin older - yur gittin better.
4x12" per side is my preferred. Quested 412. 2x15 was used on the urei monitors. It's plenty of cone area, roughly equivalent to 4x12", but with a bit less finesse and transient slam compared to 4x12". You have to design the quested speakers into a wall in a properly designed room, but the result in a post production or mix studio is my favourite sound full stop. Possibly only beaten by large scale outdoor systems.
I love my electrostat system, but if I was going to do it again, I'm sure open baffle would an option I would try. But I am content and happy with my speakers and amp for my room.
Heard these at the NY Audio Show 2019 (last weekend). I did not get to sit in the sweet spot so hard to have an impression of spatial presentation. But the instrument tonality was great.
Steve, it's been interesting to see you've been enjoying some speakers recently with larger drivers. As you identified in this review, when crossed over correctly, what they bring to the overall sound in the lower mid range tones is often their often overlooked strength. As far as these great looking speakers, maybe they would have been better in some of the areas you noted if your room was a little bigger.
2:50 If you soldered the crossover it might sound different. I know that my soldered crossovers sound different to being just twisted tightly. So much so, that I sometimes have to change a component or two, just to get it to sound more like it did prior to soldering (when it was just twisted). Crazy! So cables might actually make a difference.
Wow very impressive review. Never heard open baffle before. I am in the market for new speakers have been looking at many around 7 to 10 k price range. A issue I am having with direct to consumer, is the return. There are many positives to the situation such as lower cost, use in your own space with your own equipment etc. I would think I need all vendors to provide the speakers at the same time so I could compare them? They of course all say I probably won't return them... But I would only want one pair... Has anyone else delt with this situation or similar? Do returns go without issue just some minor fee and repacking?
I treat return shipping and 10% restocking fees as the cost of doing business and a new normal these days. Pick carefully after exhaustive research but understand the route out if needed. You can't expect to get it right the first time based on other people's words about how a speaker or other components sound and brick and mortar experiences are rare. I will say (as I eagerly wait for my Trio15 Classics to arrive) that Z'ev at Pure Audio Project is a gem of a guy. Very easy to talk to (actual phone conversations) and a pleasure to deal with. The front end of this purchase process is highly recommended.
Speakers that drench the listener with unheralded power, range and presence provide a unique human sensation. It cannot be imagined, but rather must be experienced.
I have been an open baffle speaker lover for years. But the real expert in doing an open baffle correctly is Siegfried Linkwitz. His LX521 system is not just open baffle, but also a full active dipole that gives a near ideal dipole radiation pattern well into the treble range. This speaker will be very dissimilar in front to back radiation above a few hundred Hertz, so no dipole action here. The 15" woofers on this Pureaudio may sound like a lot, but that much radiating area is needed to overcome the dipole bass cancellation that any open baffle speaker operating in passive mode would have (e.g., the old Carver Amazing Loudspeaker). A smaller long throw woofer with an active eq circuit driving it would be a much better solution. The crossover transition between those huge drivers and that small Voxativ full range in an open baffle has to be problematic. That's a major mismatch of 2 drivers attempting to cover the same range over an octave or more.
How would they sound with a horn mid-range, they would sound better making a transmission line for the full frequency driver and adding next to it a ribbon tweeter, even mounting a KEF Q driver The things you commented would be sorted out.
Great review, I wish you were in DC for the Capital audio fest. I think that you would have really appreciated the Spatial room. That should be your next review, and well as the Triton Reference
Open baffle speakers sound great,but need a bit of power and decibels to really shine.a box speaker does make more sense for lower volumes.however,open baffle designs are faster,and don't have the sidewall bass cancellation issues that box speakers do.
Steve great review. These are great speakers. But..... I built a simple version out of dyi parts that achieves much of the same results for way less than 500. Not hard. Really don’t think anything can beat it for the buck. And yes they get better the louder they go. Really Fast bass is eye opening. And room interaction is very different.
hi steve. thank you for another awesome review. as an owner/builder of diy open-baffle speakers having 4 15" woofers i know what youre talking about :) in another review you mentioned a madeleine peyroux cut that you heard where there was a standup bass and you were describing how wonderfully woody the standup bass sounded. i listened to the track and while the woody sound was there it was really apparent that it wasnt a standup bass but rather a cello or some other large stringed/bowed instrument as i could clearly hear the bite of the bow on the string(s). if youre ever in the sf bay area please come by for a listen. :)
I really get what you mean about the low end "presence." I have dual Klipsch Sub 12 subwoofers in my 2 channel stereo system. They only handle 50 Hertz and below and are integrated such that they kind of disappear in my system. But the sound is so "alive" Thank you for the opportunity to share.
The large woofers help with open baffle speakers. The reason it's not so great at super low volumes is cos of the 8" treble/med driver. But that lack of transient response is off set by cranking it. Bad transients is one of the FR driver's downfalls and a reason they aren't as popular as tweeters. But (apparently) if you spend enough money on FR drivers (somehow) that inherent problem "magically disappears". Feastrex make FR drivers that cost like $70,000 a pair (drivers only)! lol Maybe the Doppler effect "magically disappears" as well (for that price). Doppler effect is the treble "wobbling" out with the bass excursions, distorting the med and treble (just that little bit). Still happens even if it costs 35 grand (if not used with an extra woofer). lol And they usually don't recommend an extra woofer either (so the FR driver is more "still"). The Trio 15 Classic would have "still" med-range and treble cos the excursions are on the 15" drivers. Also they are dipole and point source med/treble and they would sound amazing.
I heard these speakers a the NY Audio Show and they were wonderful. I got to hear some French female jazz vocal music and it was luscious and expansive...a real treat. Steve what is the minimum power needed to drive these?
Lately, I was more captivated by open-baffle speakers in every show I went to. Maybe I 'm tired of box-design and want something new (not necessarily better). Anyway, bought the LX521 plan from Linkwitz and seriously thinking to build it. Nice review Steve.
Hey Steve, just a personal request.. Can you make a video on your thoughts on SVS PB-16 Ultra ? And if you haven't reviewed/heard to it yet, can you please do so..?
I've never heard open baffle speakers but I've lived with large, full-range electrostatics. With a full range ES, placement and backwave absorbtion made a huge difference. Does this style of speaker need to be far away from a treated back wall? Anyone?
Great review can't wait to hear about the Cornwalls! Explorations of Space and Time is very cool reminds me of a cross between Kronos Quartet and Medeski, Martin, & Wood. I would also like to hear a broader range of music being included in the reveiws. Maybe Amon Tobin / Clark / Lorn - EDM and Slayer / Gojira / Devin Townsend / Zeal & Ardor - Rock, Thrash, Extreme Metal just a thought. Thanks again for the daily videos they are great!
Yes and the low bass in a very large room, say 30x20 meter, is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the same 30 Hz sound in a small 5x3,5 meter room. PS The Impedance is always the first I look after and are most curious about since my Infinity Kappa 8 that went all the way down to 1 Ohm in "Extended Mode" DS
I bet the Infinity Kappa 8 would punish these speakers into submission. Anyway other than Bryston (currently 7BSST2) nothing seems to make my 8s sing. Even the 7B3 sounds like it would be a step down. More power!
I just inherited four 15” drivers that are really flat from 60hz to 1500hz. I’m trying to figure out how to build them into something fun and exciting. I think a setup like this might just do the trick. (I’m under no delusion that I have the skills or knowledge to maximize their potential, just want to put them to use. They’ve been in storage for almost 30 years)
I keep stumbling over the cost of high end. But I really shouldn't. After all, Joe six pack out in fly over land can have a bass boat or a full dress Harley. But on the edge of household retirement here in 2024 we are not looking to take on any debt. My rather pedestrian system with Hestia diy OB speakers and a Pass ACA does pretty well keeping me happy. Thank you for your fine content Steve.
I get it. The reason so many expensive speakers are available is because merchants are making a killing. The market is flooded with tons of over-priced speakers. That’s because they’re so expensive the manufacturers can only sell a handful of them. If people would stop buying these over-priced products, everyone would benefit since there would be more high-quality, reasonably priced speakers available. The merchants would make as much money through economy of scale by selling more speakers and far more people could enjoy a great speaker at other than astronomical prices. One can only dream. . .
Crossover by the late Leon Huijgen, i heard these speakers many years ago and they are good, but the sweet spot is small and they require space, big space.
Worth the wait.Wonder how it would handle addition of a REL.One thing that was skipped though was the room placement but otherwise a great review that got my salivary glands open
I've built my own ,the only difference is my ones are full ported cab's they are 1•2 m X 430mm wide 2 15" woofers 1 10" midridge 2 bullet tweeters 2 digital amps then added a 15" subwoofer enclosure l built then a throw rock and soft metal at them 🥁🎸🤘l do get in trouble with the neighbours sometime but it's worth it hahahaha 🤙
This is all very reminiscent to me of the Eminence 15 inch open baffle DIY projects with perhaps a little of the Visaton B200 "Dark Star" thrown in. Amazing how little attention those got until someone decides to throw a 10k price tag on an admittedly refined version of a very cheap and cheerful project. The amnesia of the internet strikes again.
I used open baffle from 2002 until about 6 months ago and remember the "Dark Star" thread well. I designed some crossovers for the now defunct Hawthorne Audio. It was great fun experimenting with many open baffles back when they were mostly an underground cult thing and very affordable DIY projects.
gurdyman1 I agree. Great period of DIY. I'm very grateful to Martin King as well for all his TL work. Ended up building a version of the Optimo as a temporary solution and haven't found anything to replace them yet.
Hi guys. Im thinking about buying a tin hifi t2 pro and im gonna use it directly on my iPhone6s. Should i do it? Is the difference compared to the normal EarPods worth it?
I'm so glad people are mentioning low level listening these days. I think it's a really important part of HiFi listening - "late night" low volume focused listening, and some speakers and amplifiers seem to do it much better than others. I really like to hear how well certain products do when played quietly.
The Mirage M1 was exceptional at low volume listening. The bass balance wasn't lost with reduced volume. It was if it had a loudness control built in. I would arrive home many times 2am or 3am and settle down for some listening without disturbing others in the household who were asleep.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Thank you for that info Carlos. I was barely aware of the Mirage M1 when it was in production. I'll have to pay attention the next time I see them.
Yes so true……..
It’s where the warmth is
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt surprisingly my coaxial horn PA speakers do well at low volume, and the vented woofers. I've heard people say that passive radiator designs can have a bit of stiffness to resonance at very low volume and need a bit of oomph to break the initial rigidity of the surround. Ported designs can play level as quiet as you like due to no "stiction" in the port air. The only limitation is your reduced sensitivity to bass at low volume.
I'm flat out addicted to the visceral qualities of my open baffle speakers (full range(-2db @20hz at listening position), 18" bottoms, 12" mids and compression driver/waveguide), The textural depth revealed by the lack of box, along with the relaxed presentation, tone, and concert scale... have captured my heart. Mine are lacking the smoothness of $$$$$ hifi speakers, but they are musical and engaging and honest... and the one thing I actually think $$$$$$ hifi speakers have over done.... is their endless smoothness (and way overdone 'slam')...
What speaker is that?
I built a pair of large open baffles with twin 15" and compression driver with waveguide in an MTM config back in 2013 and it was an eye opener for me as well. Very effortless and dynamic so I am wrecked for anything small. Nothing else sounds real.
Saw these at the New York Audio Show. I Liked them even though most of the demo music was more typical audiophile show stuff. Later in the day when the crowd thinned out they played some more impactful music. The mid-hi frequency driver was pretty amazing - made of wood!
I've always said, nothing, absolutely nothing can replace or duplicate the sound of massive power and huge speakers.
But the review is about very efficient speakers that require only a few Watts of power. And they're not huge at 48 inches height, if you compare them to truly huge speakers.
I was able to hear the larger version of these speakers at CAF 2019 that retailed for $10,000. Best sound of the show.
joe Whip Definitely sounded good in spite of the small hotel room in which they were set up.
i dont know Joe, i was knocked out by the Avantgarde speakers.
googoo gjoob different strokes ...
I agree I was at the audio show also completely blown away by the system. Exquisite sound!!!
( Artful noise).
Yep. I haven't heard these speakers, but have the Legacy Audio Aeris (which have the same area of mid-woofer to sub-woofer drivers compared to the dual 15 inch drivers). Going from a hybrid electrostatic Martin Logan SL 3 with a single 10 inch woofer to a box speaker with so much more mid-range to sub-woofer driver area was really a massive difference. It was not something I expected. There is a sense of easy bigness. There is a sometimes a sense that the sound stage even surrounds you (even though all the music is in front of you) at a reasonable (75dB) listening level. I've had people ask if I have surround speakers, even though there aren't any. When it comes to bass, you can feel the waves of bass come up from the floor to your body. However, it is my sense that this comes from the pressurization that the speaker creates in the room (where a resonant node moves towards you). It is quite a different sonic experience than small driver speakers. Certainly worth trying out open-baffle large driver area speakers if one is in the market.
100% fun. Sounds like 4 - 15 inch drivers certainly can easily disturb a significant number of air molecules. Bet that sounds magical.
frfr no cap i own big speakers myself to be honest well i have two 18s
Thank you so much Steve for this review, I find you, as a reviewer for audio, to be quite a bit ahead of your competition. Your videos seem to have a lot more information and complexity of thought when it comes to what makes the experience of listening to music so pleasurable. I am really glad to see more information on Pure Audio Project and I am still quite interested in what other iterations of this speaker sound like. I remember another review you did about how much speaker companies spend on engineering the box and it is nice to hear from you what happens when a company spends it on drivers. I wouldn't mind hearing a review of the modular trios with the horn.
He's literally the Audiophiliac and yeah I'm interested in a review of the modular ones too.
He’s Da Audiophiliac Man!
This take on crossovers is fantastic.
7/2024: Hi Steve, from the Future. IMO, Bigger Is Always Better! Cool to see you so excited about a pair of speakers. They are truly Magnificent. Thank You & Best Regards.
Love the review...show the speakers more, while you’re talking. Ta
....hey thanks for all the ear candy..no music samples.? Its not the same as having a live hearing interaction..but its something better then nothing..music samples next time please..
I dig it! I heard them while you were describing them. They'll be my dream speakers for sure. I won't be surprised to see those in mastering rooms. Thank you Steve, I enjoy your content. 🙏
I build almost identical speakers mounted on stone baffle and I love them. Was very happy when I saw title of your review because I respect your audio knowledge a lot!
Thx Steve!... for yet another insightful n well expressed review!
Appreciate you, as always.
thank you for addressing the issue of scale, and how some audio experiences are completely scale-specific, and can not be intuited nor analogized by substitution.
How many times a man must be blown away, before you call him a man? The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind.
Great review. Now imagine the PureAudioProject Quintet15 with 2 more of those wonderful woofers, plus a midrange/tweeter upgrade to the Voxativ AC-4a driver with Alnico magnet. Out of this world!
When I visited NY Audio Show last week, PureAudioProject room was first thing to do. I must say that I wasn't super impressed, they are really good but they don't excel in anything particular. For example, low end is missing kick and clarity considering 4 x 15" woofers, they were lacking in details also (more than expected) and not as open sounding as i would imagine. The soundstage could be better for OB speakers and imaging is pretty poor. To describe them more metaphorically I would say that they are Jack of all trades but master of none, which is actually not a bad thing at all, they just don't excite in any department and left me wanting more. I would also say that given the proper room size and treatment they could potentially be outstanding speakers.
As usually Steve, thanks a lot for the review.
Could have been that the amp was too weak. 🤔
I mean that Whammerdyne was like 6 Watts a channel. Even First Watts have at least twice as much power as that amp (which is more fit for something like a hORNS Universum (100db/W), though they still benefit of something beefier.
So Steve, did you prefer the smaller Pure Audio in your room? I noticed you now have the Duo’s. Thank you!
It’s extraordinary it’s taken you so long to find large efficient speakers. Enjoy.
No substitute for large drivers and a large baffle. They provide a "scale" to the sound that better approximates live instruments that mini monitors and small driver speakers can't match. This sense of scale is an important but often neglected aspect of sound realism. I love "big" sound and so do most people. It's often the reason very large speakers are chosen as "best sound at audio shows".
I changed mine to biamplified through a minidsp, and in WWFR config. Also modified baffles and their mounts with vibration isolation and angled backwards. I cross at 150 hz, 8th order now.
Seems that your preference for horns means that you should audition a PAP with a horn option - could be the best of both worlds.
Steve please do the spatial M4 turbo S!! Budget friendly OBs. I think many of your viewers would be very into a good OB at a very decent price.
Really wish you would sample test this speaker, I know you don't do that but I think these deserved an acception.
The thing I have a hard time adjusting to is after listing to music on modern speaker systems with a subwoofer(s) having that deep powerful bass then listening to say good vintage speakers is the bass seems on the weak side thinking what is going on? so I have to recalibrate also, after a while the amount of bass from a typical loud speaker produces sounds great then on the flipside going back to speakers utilizing a sub the bass seems bit excessive finding myself turning the sub back. But now speakers I always thought had really great bass don't seem to now just from incorporating a subwoofer normally. But deep bass is very very addictive to alot of folks...
Just on the face of it I find it a bit hard to believe a 15" driver will truly reproduce mid bass in an accurate manner up to 400 hZ and at the same time produce tight deep bass. As to a sub you really aren't supposed to hear it so if it is excessive you did the right thing turning it down.
@@JohnDoe-np3zk well I like very music bass heavy so I run bass levels higher than opinion of the "correct" level of a subwoofer seamlessly blending in with the mains, yeah there's a point of serious bass oversaturation I'm not referring to that I like the sub adjusted so seems the mains just have a powerful low end to the point that is not heard in a typical well engineered quality loud speaker. Can I tell there's a sub in the mix I'd say yes but whatever. Besides there's litterly no correct way for a person to listen there audio, it's whatever appeals to what listener finds enjoyable whether it's bright highs, hollow mids or brutal lows everyone's idea of just right is different... There's people out there that prefer there subwoofer to drown out the rest of the frequencies, whatever... Que Sera Sera.
@@95Sn95 "their" audio lol. Good points man.
@@JohnDoe-np3zk Many high quality pro 15" drivers can do both mid-bass and go down to a good solid 30Hz.
@@gurdyman1 in fairness I would need to hear it. I do like the efficiency of these vs. my Infinity Kappa 8s. The 12" woofer on the 8s crosses over at 80 hZ and the midbass driver at 500 hZ. The woofer is carbon graphite and stiff as a freaking board. Just like you need.
Absolutely the cat's ass when you want to replicate Rush at Madison Square Garden in your living room. Add some earplugs and some smoke, and off you go. ;)
[Uh oh, incoming...]
Yes, Yes, Yes. Probably the best review you've ever done. Maybe because I agreed with every word. lol. I luv that you are using Klipsch Cornwalls as a comparison basis. That's a severe comparison test basis. So many lessor reviewers use another (Ho-Hum who cares) cone speaker that has minimal differences to begin with, and subsequently the review is a bore. Please keep using Klipsch as the standard for comparison - it should be. Yur not gittin older - yur gittin better.
Thanks for the review of an open baffle speaker.
4x12" per side is my preferred. Quested 412.
2x15 was used on the urei monitors. It's plenty of cone area, roughly equivalent to 4x12", but with a bit less finesse and transient slam compared to 4x12". You have to design the quested speakers into a wall in a properly designed room, but the result in a post production or mix studio is my favourite sound full stop. Possibly only beaten by large scale outdoor systems.
Freud would have explained Steve’s enthusiasm as case of speaker envy.
I love my electrostat system, but if I was going to do it again, I'm sure open baffle would an option I would try. But I am content and happy with my speakers and amp for my room.
Nice! I tried making some stats once. (it didn't pan out!)
Been waiting along time for you to 'get' the open baffle thing... glad you have.
Steve's talked about these speakers many times in the past
Heard these at the NY Audio Show 2019 (last weekend). I did not get to sit in the sweet spot so hard to have an impression of spatial presentation. But the instrument tonality was great.
I have a set of Cerwin Vega sl15s, we use them as surround fronts and when we want to really jam. 15' woofers rule.
Steve, it's been interesting to see you've been enjoying some speakers recently with larger drivers. As you identified in this review, when crossed over correctly, what they bring to the overall sound in the lower mid range tones is often their often overlooked strength. As far as these great looking speakers, maybe they would have been better in some of the areas you noted if your room was a little bigger.
2:50 If you soldered the crossover it might sound different. I know that my soldered crossovers sound different to being just twisted tightly. So much so, that I sometimes have to change a component or two, just to get it to sound more like it did prior to soldering (when it was just twisted). Crazy! So cables might actually make a difference.
I've read that the horn version (Trio15 horn1) has better low-level listening qualities. You might want to revisit Pure Audio with this version.
This would be a great (and closer) comparison to the Cornwall's...
If you get these, either your First Watt or a Bob Carver amp are musts with these babies.
Wow very impressive review. Never heard open baffle before. I am in the market for new speakers have been looking at many around 7 to 10 k price range. A issue I am having with direct to consumer, is the return. There are many positives to the situation such as lower cost, use in your own space with your own equipment etc. I would think I need all vendors to provide the speakers at the same time so I could compare them? They of course all say I probably won't return them... But I would only want one pair... Has anyone else delt with this situation or similar? Do returns go without issue just some minor fee and repacking?
I treat return shipping and 10% restocking fees as the cost of doing business and a new normal these days. Pick carefully after exhaustive research but understand the route out if needed. You can't expect to get it right the first time based on other people's words about how a speaker or other components sound and brick and mortar experiences are rare. I will say (as I eagerly wait for my Trio15 Classics to arrive) that Z'ev at Pure Audio Project is a gem of a guy. Very easy to talk to (actual phone conversations) and a pleasure to deal with. The front end of this purchase process is highly recommended.
Although I haven't heard these, it's clear that " there ain't no replacement for displacement ".
Speakers that drench the listener with unheralded power, range and presence provide a unique human sensation. It cannot be imagined, but rather must be experienced.
I wonder how Superstar by the Carpentars would have sounded on both the trio and the Klipsch. I appreciate your review!!!
Lame?
@@JohnDoe-np3zk ?
@@ythagakure I'm teasing love that scene in Tommy Boy.
Have you had the opportunity to hear any of the Cube Audio speakers... either the F10 Nenuphar or the F8 Nenuphar Minis?
I have been an open baffle speaker lover for years. But the real expert in doing an open baffle correctly is Siegfried Linkwitz. His LX521 system is not just open baffle, but also a full active dipole that gives a near ideal dipole radiation pattern well into the treble range. This speaker will be very dissimilar in front to back radiation above a few hundred Hertz, so no dipole action here. The 15" woofers on this Pureaudio may sound like a lot, but that much radiating area is needed to overcome the dipole bass cancellation that any open baffle speaker operating in passive mode would have (e.g., the old Carver Amazing Loudspeaker). A smaller long throw woofer with an active eq circuit driving it would be a much better solution. The crossover transition between those huge drivers and that small Voxativ full range in an open baffle has to be problematic. That's a major mismatch of 2 drivers attempting to cover the same range over an octave or more.
How would they sound with a horn mid-range, they would sound better making a transmission line for the full frequency driver and adding next to it a ribbon tweeter, even mounting a KEF Q driver
The things you commented would be sorted out.
What about the Trio15 Horn1?
Sounds very interesting as an aspirational speaker.
Surprisingly good price.
Great review, I wish you were in DC for the Capital audio fest. I think that you would have really appreciated the Spatial room. That should be your next review, and well as the Triton Reference
Open baffle speakers sound great,but need a bit of power and decibels to really shine.a box speaker does make more sense for lower volumes.however,open baffle designs are faster,and don't have the sidewall bass cancellation issues that box speakers do.
Normal people think I am crazy for having spent 2k on speakers yet I felt I was being "thrifty"
Wonder what they would think if I bought these?
I mean, don't bash it 'till you try it.
I wonder how the Crossover accounts for the "Dipole Peak" in the response.
Steve great review. These are great speakers. But..... I built a simple version out of dyi parts that achieves much of the same results for way less than 500. Not hard. Really don’t think anything can beat it for the buck. And yes they get better the louder they go. Really Fast bass is eye opening. And room interaction is very different.
hi steve. thank you for another awesome review. as an owner/builder of diy open-baffle speakers having 4 15" woofers i know what youre talking about :) in another review you mentioned a madeleine peyroux cut that you heard where there was a standup bass and you were describing how wonderfully woody the standup bass sounded. i listened to the track and while the woody sound was there it was really apparent that it wasnt a standup bass but rather a cello or some other large stringed/bowed instrument as i could clearly hear the bite of the bow on the string(s). if youre ever in the sf bay area please come by for a listen. :)
Кто не слушал такое оформление тот не поймёт их приемущество.
Great Video Thanks Steve.
I really get what you mean about the low end "presence." I have dual Klipsch Sub 12 subwoofers in my 2 channel stereo system. They only handle 50 Hertz and below and are integrated such that they kind of disappear in my system. But the sound is so "alive" Thank you for the opportunity to share.
The large woofers help with open baffle speakers. The reason it's not so great at super low volumes is cos of the 8" treble/med driver. But that lack of transient response is off set by cranking it. Bad transients is one of the FR driver's downfalls and a reason they aren't as popular as tweeters. But (apparently) if you spend enough money on FR drivers (somehow) that inherent problem "magically disappears". Feastrex make FR drivers that cost like $70,000 a pair (drivers only)! lol Maybe the Doppler effect "magically disappears" as well (for that price). Doppler effect is the treble "wobbling" out with the bass excursions, distorting the med and treble (just that little bit). Still happens even if it costs 35 grand (if not used with an extra woofer). lol And they usually don't recommend an extra woofer either (so the FR driver is more "still").
The Trio 15 Classic would have "still" med-range and treble cos the excursions are on the 15" drivers. Also they are dipole and point source med/treble and they would sound amazing.
Cool speakers? About $15,000 here!
I have had a pair of OB speakers before with one 15 inch driver. They were very good, then added a sub even better!
I heard these speakers a the NY Audio Show and they were wonderful. I got to hear some French female jazz vocal music and it was luscious and expansive...a real treat. Steve what is the minimum power needed to drive these?
Lately, I was more captivated by open-baffle speakers in every show I went to. Maybe I 'm tired of box-design and want something new (not necessarily better). Anyway, bought the LX521 plan from Linkwitz and seriously thinking to build it. Nice review Steve.
Wow Steve, you really seem excited about these
Hey Steve, just a personal request..
Can you make a video on your thoughts on SVS PB-16 Ultra ? And if you haven't reviewed/heard to it yet, can you please do so..?
ruclips.net/video/w5orZxg9DUs/видео.html
Not the PB 16 but an SVS sub.
Not a bad sub most of the time but easily driven to chuffing.
ruclips.net/video/ueyqSLOmaeI/видео.html
If you haven't sent them back yet, send them to me and I will. 😉
Steve!!! Now we need a review of Spatial Audio M3's!!!!
I've never heard open baffle speakers but I've lived with large, full-range electrostatics. With a full range ES, placement and backwave absorbtion made a huge difference. Does this style of speaker need to be far away from a treated back wall? Anyone?
Oh yes, most definitely. Best bet imo for deeep bass and close wall placement is front port transmission line.
Any open baffle speakers needs plenty of space behind it to sound it's best.
@@gurdyman1 Thank you. Makes sense.
@@andrewt902 Thank you.
Great review can't wait to hear about the Cornwalls! Explorations of Space and Time is very cool reminds me of a cross between Kronos Quartet and Medeski, Martin, & Wood. I would also like to hear a broader range of music being included in the reveiws. Maybe Amon Tobin / Clark / Lorn - EDM and Slayer / Gojira / Devin Townsend / Zeal & Ardor - Rock, Thrash, Extreme Metal just a thought. Thanks again for the daily videos they are great!
Would be awesome to experience and listen to! 💥💥👌
I love it!
Do you recommend raising the cornwalls off the floor? like tweeter at ear height?
It's great review and extremely well explained. I enjoyed your video. Keep up good work
Yes and the low bass in a very large room, say 30x20 meter, is something TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the same 30 Hz sound in a small 5x3,5 meter room.
PS The Impedance is always the first I look after and are most curious about since my Infinity Kappa 8 that went all the way down to 1 Ohm in "Extended Mode" DS
I bet the Infinity Kappa 8 would punish these speakers into submission. Anyway other than Bryston (currently 7BSST2) nothing seems to make my 8s sing. Even the 7B3 sounds like it would be a step down. More power!
I just heard them at an audio show.
I just inherited four 15” drivers that are really flat from 60hz to 1500hz.
I’m trying to figure out how to build them into something fun and exciting. I think a setup like this might just do the trick.
(I’m under no delusion that I have the skills or knowledge to maximize their potential, just want to put them to use. They’ve been in storage for almost 30 years)
Hello Steve . I’ve living with 4x15 and it is a hard time living without ...
I keep stumbling over the cost of high end. But I really shouldn't. After all, Joe six pack out in fly over land can have a bass boat or a full dress Harley. But on the edge of household retirement here in 2024 we are not looking to take on any debt. My rather pedestrian system with Hestia diy OB speakers and a Pass ACA does pretty well keeping me happy. Thank you for your fine content Steve.
Steve To Pure Audio: Save a pair for me
I'd love a pair of those. Great content mate 👍
I get it. The reason so many expensive speakers are available is because merchants are making a killing. The market is flooded with tons of over-priced speakers. That’s because they’re so expensive the manufacturers can only sell a handful of them. If people would stop buying these over-priced products, everyone would benefit since there would be more high-quality, reasonably priced speakers available. The merchants would make as much money through economy of scale by selling more speakers and far more people could enjoy a great speaker at other than astronomical prices. One can only dream. . .
Crossover by the late Leon Huijgen, i heard these speakers many years ago and they are good, but the sweet spot is small and they require space, big space.
Not long I was reading that the most accurate sound you will get from 8" - 10" woofers but go figure it :)
Don't believe everything you read or hear. A lot of misinformation has been bandied about.
Try 2 15's. With a pair if eminence beta 12 lta. With the dust caps removed.
Hey Steve, question; How much time do you spend positioning speakers for every review ?
Worth the wait.Wonder how it would handle addition of a REL.One thing that was skipped though was the room placement but otherwise a great review that got my salivary glands open
What room size would be minimal for these trio 15's?
Hi Steve, can you please do a review or give me an opinion of the KLH Kendall and Denon 1055R ? Thank you.
I've built my own ,the only difference is my ones are full ported cab's they are 1•2 m X 430mm wide 2 15" woofers 1 10" midridge 2 bullet tweeters 2 digital amps then added a 15" subwoofer enclosure l built then a throw rock and soft metal at them 🥁🎸🤘l do get in trouble with the neighbours sometime but it's worth it hahahaha 🤙
Open baffle sound more open obviously from hearing the back wave and not from lack of a box per se.
My 30 year old mirage M3 bipoles (dynamic speakers with drivers facing forward and back in phase) would agree with you.
@@Scottlp2 I owned the M1 back in 1990.
large drivers always seemed obvious. A reasonable price too.
Interesting would be also a comparison between the Trio15 and the JBL S3900. Thx for all the videos
Steve I’m going to build a pair I think...btw what is the crossover fqy? EXCELLENT Review
Welcome aboard the wacky world of multi-driver OB. Done right, it’s a paradigm shift.
This is all very reminiscent to me of the Eminence 15 inch open baffle DIY projects with perhaps a little of the Visaton B200 "Dark Star" thrown in. Amazing how little attention those got until someone decides to throw a 10k price tag on an admittedly refined version of a very cheap and cheerful project. The amnesia of the internet strikes again.
I used open baffle from 2002 until about 6 months ago and remember the "Dark Star" thread well. I designed some crossovers for the now defunct Hawthorne Audio. It was great fun experimenting with many open baffles back when they were mostly an underground cult thing and very affordable DIY projects.
gurdyman1 I agree. Great period of DIY. I'm very grateful to Martin King as well for all his TL work. Ended up building a version of the Optimo as a temporary solution and haven't found anything to replace them yet.
Here:
marcinsywala.pl/tang-band-w8-2145-2x-eminence-alpha-15a-open-baffle/
Build them yourself and free your mind.
The Optimo is still out there as well:
www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble%20Homemade%20Hifi_Optimo.pdf
I used a CDK coaxial driver
Whats the hype with open baffle speakers. Ive seen them before and people tend to compliment on them.
I want those for my bedroom! Overkill? And how are they for home theater?
hi steve, could you let us know how this compares with the ohm walsh 2000. you indicated that you were quite impressed with that one also.
thanks
Hi guys. Im thinking about buying a tin hifi t2 pro and im gonna use it directly on my iPhone6s. Should i do it? Is the difference compared to the normal EarPods worth it?
Flap Jack yes
Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac thank you kind sir