They look dope. But they always get a bad wrap because people are like “no no magic is good!!” Yet they summon demons with it, cause three faction wars, and turning people into a a broom.
@@Motard.Actual templars are addicts who can easily become mentally unstable not only by the mage threats they are supposed to fight, but also by the lyrium they use for their abilities. And Templars also end up having the most mentally unprepared people for it who end up doing more damage than good. Good example, Kirkwall templar's and Cullen when you grant the Circle independence and he ends up killing 2 innocent apprentice.
In origins it’s stated by Alistair that he learned his abilities as a Templar before taking lyrium and that lyrium isn’t necessary for them to learn their abilities just that most don’t start learning until after they take it and lyrium makes their abilities stronger
I heard (might be on this channel, too) that Alistair had actually taken lyrium, but like, the first time only. As in, he fibbed a little in Origins. But I can't point you to a source or tell you where I heard it, so if anyone here knows, pls tell us
In origins the warden may turn into a Templar and never need to take lyrium, while in Inquisition you make a philter in order to achieve your skills, thus, I think that you may not need lyrium but it shortens the path to the skills and some "weaker" people may need lyrium to even achieve it at some rate
In DAO it was likely something of a mess up by writers, but : 1)DAI seems to come to the position that lyrium isn't necessary for everyone as all have this faithful potential, but most people need it as their shortcut to reach such powers much sooner and easier, 2)I like to think that the now very canonical magical/powerful heritage of Alistair has something to do with how he lucked to being so easily a Templar in abilities. I think the gist by now is that the general templar population does still have to have something to with lyrium, but the deeper nature of templar powers, perspectives, identity goes further than that material ingestion.
@@aledrone759 The specializations in Origins are sort of completely unrelated to the gameplay and lore itself. You can make a character a templar just like how you can make aomeone a blood mage, but it doesnt impact the game itself and is sort of seperate. Really in all DA games, the combat is separate from lore all together and plays by its own rules
The Jaws of Hakon DLC and the meeting of Ameridan raised SO many questions for me about how the Templar order and the mages interacted and cooperated at the beginning of the Chantry. That Ameridan was surprised that mages were no longer welcomed as members of the Seekers (and I assumed, Templars as well) took me off guard and rewrote much of what the previous games said of the mages and Templars. The fact that Ameridan had a spirit guide, like Wynne, also surprised me since the definition of abomination had been rather black and white up to that point. Great video, as always, Ghil! I hope you have a wonderful one!!!
The previous games did indicate that things were significantly better, then they got much worse, with then the Chantry doing lots of social bandaids on keeping the Circle system intact, until the recent ripping off of those bandaids. There was always a period where a lot of organizations and peoples unified (generally around Orlais focal point) against the heretics in various ways outside. It was an imperfect deal but many signed up for it, including mages themselves, so there were good reasons and relations to do so. The time then was one where rampaging mages (and resulting abominations) were a more distinct and visceral threat. But just as abominations were a threat, yes I'd agree that spirit guides were a revelation to players, as we now have to understand that centuries ago there was a relatively more normal environment where spirits/demons are considered, and not just through Tevinter's doings or Rivain's culture etc, but everywhere. A lot of DAI writing was to say to us that the 'norms' of walls between the realms, cannot stand as they have been.
I just put this together: Lyrium root word : Lyrics, as in a song. Lyrium/Lyrics is Titan's Blood, we know that now. Perhaps the "hunger" is a call to serve a titan, but to a non dwarven mind it does not work and instead slowly deteriorates their mental health instead. Similar to the song of the Archdemon on Grey Wardens?
It probably works to its smaller extent, as all beings of flesh, but yes perhaps its a more alien song that gets 'misinterpreted' (though insert some faithful arguments about how it all has to do with a definitely-real Maker). But the irony is that we can probably say by now that the dwarven pull of the Stone is at least a more reliable phenominon in Thedas than anything almost anyone experiences of the Maker. The Stone is as real as a Titan. The Maker (so far, as DAI progressed to deconstruct the Chantry) can almost be assumed to be mistakenly a Titan (though IMO it'll be more than this).
I'm a bit surprised we don't hear about hunger demons typically targeting (not in dreams like mages of course) Templars when their addictions can make them feel a terrible hunger.
Something a lot of people seem to forget is that Alistair has taken lyrium before, in the form of the GW Joining. Darkspawn blood, archdemon blood, lyrium and other ingredients. So i'm now under the impression that while Alistair didn't lie about not needing lyrium to use templar powers, he may not have put two and two together; he's not the sharpest bulb in the crayon box after all (but we still love the goof). This also fixes the retco of templars do in fact need lyrium, and Alistair was lying to your warden, or that the entire conversation you and he had about templars in Origins never happened. Another thing is that Avernus discovered that the tainted blood of GW have power beyond that of just sensing the DS; also blight magic is apparently a thing, so maybe the taint is a substitute for lyrium that a trained templar who hasn't taken their first lyrium hits yet can use to use the templar powers.
If what Solas is saying is right and that magic used to be everywhere and everyone had magic to a degree, is taking lyrium a way for Templar's to attain a form of their latent magic? It may not be natural magic like mages, but maybe lyrium awakens this form of magic in Templars? And since the abilities are artificial in nature, maybe that's why it allows them to oppose natural magic? Or maybe Templar abilities are actually magic that stems from the real world (Thedas) and not the fade and that's why it is able to repel fade based magics?
Cole says that Templars reach for something older, something larger like Varric. It seems like how ever templars use lyrium, it makes them want to connect to the Titans. Dagna talks about seeing herself as something big, like mountain big. I have no idea if I'm correct but hope one day we learn more about Titans. Oh, also Cassandra says that templars are different from seekers. We learn that seekers get their abilities from the fade.
DA seems to define magic as something building from the inside of a mage, outward. Their own imagination (coming from their brains/minds), given form. What the templar 'techniques' are, are more uniform and channeled at least partially from elsewhere; if we get into Titans, we know there's entities that appear to have even a sort of hive-mind regarding them, so physical distance may not be any problem. Both mages and templars are expressing 'power',but even if this was more understood by people in-universe, I'd imagine Templars would still find ways to call it not 'magic' but prayers/blessings/etc like in the rest of the fantasy genre. And being connected to a Titan doesn't mean that this Titan isn't necessarily something that could have to do with a more abstract Maker faith - depending on DA4+ material.
I realise I am late to the party but the idea of Paladin powers may be Dragon Age's interpretation of 'faith magic'. The reason I quote the word 'faith magic' is because its not really magic, in the same theory as blood magic is not the same as fade magic, or rather a different pool of magic. Magic as a idea can be broken up into various sources to draw on, like fade, blood, blight and 'faith', each of these 'magics' can alter the world by drawing upon power to reshape reality. Templar powers meanwhile work in a sense of 'reinforcing reality', and are essentially based on 'belief', a belief in the world or rather a faith in reality. We know it is considered religious, however you could remove the divine aspect and rather relabel it as self confidence in ones self or place in the universe to reinforce reality because you believe it is so... I don't know how to explain, but Templar abilities is a person projecting their will and maybe soul to enforce the laws of reality against forces like blight, fade and blood to enforce a 'stabilising effect. I also think this ties into a sub theory on how the blight spreads differently in people, which is due to a persons 'faith.' Faith in the maker is not required, but rather a faith in 'something' to help provide a grounding rod to reality and repel the magical part of the darkspawn taint in the blight disease. It could explain why Liliana is so resistant to the red lyrium corruption, and if people wonder why would priests and religious leaders get the blight, the faith I speak of isn't just reciting the litanies and being influential in the chantry, but rather this power stems from mental training and a singular belief in a 'thing'. As we can tell many religious people in thedas are less than moral people or true to a single value: so the belief requires a purity of faith. This could also explain why the faith of the Maker was spread by the Grey Wardens, as it acts as a 'light' form of immunization of the population. Maybe not fully making everyone immune but giving them a greater chance of resisting infection.
Alistair has never taken lyrium before and still has the abilities of a templar. When asked about it he theorizes that A. Lyrium just enhances the ability to reinforce reality for those already gifted or B. The Chantry is lying to keep the Templars on an addict leash and prevent dissent. Another possibility is that Alistair's heritage, not as elf-blooded but rather as dragon-blooded, has something to do with his powers not requiring lyrium. That being said we know very little of dragons and how they actually work so that theory could just be me grasping at straws. As of now, I personally think that the need for lyrium amongst templars is, if not out right a lie as Alistair theorizes, at least is exaggerated by the Chantry to maintain control.
I wonder though if all life comes from something Titanic, and just what humans have in them reaches to a Titan far far off to the north where they migrated from, along with more experiences that detach them from it, while the lyrium they ingest to be a Templar is from a more local Titan. I just wouldn't be so sure that only dwarves have a connection to Titans. They could each have their own creative actions that resulted, directly or indirectly, in making/managing people.
Just a correction, Alistair does NOT believe the Chantry is lying to keep the templars on a leash. Your warden can react by saying that, to which he Alistair will respond negatively and his approval will drop by two points. Source: Just restarted DA:O this week and picked this dialogue option.
My thought on Templar abilities and needing lyrium is that templars reinforce reality with their abilities, and that if they think they need lyrium to use their abilities, then they do need it. But someone like Alistair or our warden doesn’t cuz they think they can use Templar abilities and therefore they reinforce a reality that says they can.
It makes me upset that you don't have millions of subs and views. I just discovered the channel, so don't know if the channel is just new too, but this one needs to blow up.
I remember Alistair said templar's don't need lyrium to preform the skills. And Collen was able to break away from lyrium, (as I helped him) so I feel like one can become a Templar but without lyrium.
Alistair’s statement regarding the intake of lyrium not being necessary in order to utilize templar-abilities was retconned. Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition (even the novels) have all consistently maintained the need to consume lyrium for the special abilities that templars use to work. As for Cullen, you are right, you can help him overcome his lyrium addiction, however he would no longer be able to disrupt magic afterwards. I think his personal arc revolves around finding a way for templars to break free from their addiction at some point, so they can maintain their sanity.
I love the Templar's they get a bad rep for the extremes they sometimes have to go to to control mages, it's easy to say there bad but from what we've seen without Templar's eventually a few bad mages will take over they keep The people safe and are largely unthanked for it
@@SwobyJ I disagree. There will always be bad people. The templars themselves have proven that. As have the mages, the common folk, the wealthy, and the chantry. I agree that the order should exist but not as it those. Basically, I disagree with the circle and the way it works. Remember, guns dont kill people, people kill people. Some just so happen to have guns.
@@SwobyJ yes, but my point wasn't political commentary. (Though I'd like to say that I dont think that banning guns is the real answer as most of those that use guns for nefarious purposes tend to obtain guns through illegal mean. So a ban would just take guns away from those obtaining them responsibly. But countering my own rebuttal most who have committed acts of domestic terrorism have obtain through legal means so, idk maybe. Eh, that is honestly a subject that is kinda beyond me, I must admit, but) My comment was more geared at the fact that mages are born with a skill. A skill that can be used for every part of the moral spectrum. Even blood magic can have good uses. Much of the lore has stated that it can mess with the mind, so it can potentially be used to "mend a broken mind", basically mental illness. Just like a shield can be used to either protect or bashed someone's skull in. Magic can heal or harm. But my ultimate point, and bare with me here. These are people. Living sentient being. And chantry has taught them to hate themselves, and has taught others to hate them. I afraid that that is largely what the templars have become. How someone was born shouldn't be a jail sentence, or in some cases, a death sentence.
There will be Templars in DA4 and Tevinter, and I am curious whether the writing will keep those as ineffectual as it seems, or so some twist on how they're actually a very secret police that keeps their accomplishments quiet unlike the southern groups.
Tbf, did they fall that much from what we seen of them in DA:O. The only notably one was Cullen and they surely had risen beyond that. Inquisition tried to make them more redeemable but in Orgins and 2, they were detestable for the most part.
@@channel45853 Right... Meanwhile the mages have been stellar. Between the circle collapsing in DA:O and nearly dooming Ferelden to DA:II kirkwall explosion and initiation of mage war.. Dragon Age Inqusition had a much more biased, favouring Mages. I'm annoyed that if you pick mages you'll fight red templars, yet if you pick templars you'll just fight venetori. As if the mages couldn't do anything wrong. There are plenty of good reasons that the Templar order ought to exist. Considering the situation tehy find themselves in, a world without the Templars would collapse quite quickly.
I have always found the Templars and the Circles an interesting concept. I know how horrific their relationship is, but I've always seen it as the fault of outside interference. I love your noting that many Templars are endoctrinated more to be servants of the Chantry than to do their duty as safeguards against magic. Despite what we see of them, I am actually usually pro-Circles and Templars in my games, because I am trying to reform them. I've always considered magic like science in the real-world. When working with hazardous chemicals or materials, or performing experiments that may have disasterous results, do scientists work in a tee-shit and shorts? Are they doing these experiments in a shopping mall? Chances are, no. They have dedicated research facilities and contained, controlled environments. They wear protective gear, such as gloves and goggles. Even if they are doing an experiment that they've done a thousand times before, they still need to take precautions. The same chemicals that make cleaning supplies also make mustard gas. In Thedas, it operates much the same. Mages are the scientists, magic is the chemicals and hazardous material, spells are the experiments, Circles are the research facility, and Templars are the protective gear, ensuring that in the event that something goes wrong, it doesn't lead to disasterous or long-term consequences. At least, that is how it's supposed to work. The problem, of course, is the Chantry, which manipulates perceptions to make magic seem inherently evil, turning what should be the mages' guardians and protectors into cruel oppressors. As such, I usually like to play characters that are pro-Circle, pro-Templar, but anti-Chantry.
2:25 I'm not sure what you meant by game mechanics forgetting that templar abilities require lyrium but t he way I see it, in DAO, lyrium wasn't necessary, then it seems to have been retconned, although, SPOILERS for the Silent Grove, Alistair uses templar abilities against Aurelian Titus in those comics. In DAII, the specialization description seems to imply that Hawke takes lyrium if a templar, the game just doesn't show it or make a big deal out of it.
Its possible that lyrium isn't necessary for Templars to use their abilities, it just makes them stronger. In Jaws of Hakkon the templar that follows Ameridan is one of the first to use lyrium to enhance his abilities and if you read the papers left around you can see why he used it and later starts to regret doing so.
The Templars are a very corrupt division of the chantry that operate largely without oversight and with impunity. Though, the templars themselves are abused by the chantry through lyrium. All in all though, they overstepped their place by turning the circles into prisons. Dead templars lining the streets of Thedas was inevitable and necessary.
The templars serve an important purpose, which is unfortunately often deliberately overlooked by fans who look at the conflict in a black-and-white fashion. Dragon Age deals with magic in a very “realistic” ore rather believable way where those few who are found to have magic are looked upon with fear, distrust and outright hate. The important point here is that while ignorance and prejudice play a huge role, the fear of magic is anything but unwarranted. The circle as well as the templars serve as the best large-scale option for mages to learn amongst their pears while not being killed by common folks. Additionally they keep mages who can’t control their abilities (which is an extremely huge deal generously overlooked by pro-free mages fans) from causing harm. Conner serves as one of the best examples why mages are not only dangerous, but why people specifically trained to combat magic are needed as well. The abuse mages suffer in those institutions need to be addressed, that’s absolutely correct. And the templars do have internal supervision by the seekers. But saying dead templars across thedas were needed can just as easily be met with saying a large-scale purge of the mages was needed. Both are simplifying statements, not doing justice to the overall complexity of the situation.
Is a templar's abilities dependent on lyrium or just needs the initial vigil of lyrium to awaken their abilities? If a Templar who no longer takes lyrium (like cullen) do they lose their abilities to reinforce reality? Or do they still retain the ability just weakened since they are not actively taking lyrium?
@@MoreLoreThenThereSeems they really don't. Alistair in DA:O says it as much in one of the first questions you can ask him at camp. In his words, Lyrium makes templars stronger and their abilities more effective, but its not a requirement. Hence why he never takes lyrium the whole game - he was taken from the templars early enough that he never got addicted.
Do we think the hunger is some sort of will of Lyrium that influences the Templars? Nightmares from stop taking it may be they are influenced by spirits more from sensitivity after taking Lyrium? I guess unless dwarves are also affected similar?
allways thought philters were used to inject lyrium directly into the veins of templars. would fit with lyrium addiction being a real world analog to drug addiction. which also works as a analog to armies giving soldiers anphetamins and strong opoid narcotics in the past.
I was wandering.... could the lyrim they take be...altered...? Like its not pure but not tainted and thats why its so addictive? Or could it be a case of them not being mages it alters their body to crave it desperately due to their lack of mana that its meant to restore thus instead of restoring mana like its meant to it instead works in reverse creating a deathly hunger that will never fade until the poor knight passes?
@Ghil Dithalen Are you sure it's the Seekers you were thinking of, and not the order of fiery promise? Cassandra herself said that the order of fiery promise considered itself to be the true Seekers, it might be because they could had been around before the Seekers were formed.
They're much different since red lyrium has it's own form of magic quite unlike fade magic, that is to say: blight magic. It's a bit like a mixture between fade and blood magic, but also has effects that neither of those two have. It's also very powerful... Red Templars can cast spells (blight magic spells only). Regular Templars cannot.
The Avvar, Chasind, Dalish, and Rivaini all manage to not only have free mages but even put them in positions of power without any of them having ended up like Tevinter. Obviously I think the situation in Tevinter is fucked, and the Circle system is genuinely less bad than that, but I think the Templars could still use their abilities to police criminal mages and abominations without forcing most mages to live in Circles. I'm even okay with some lesser legal restrictions - like, keeping mages from holding noble title and positions is honestly pretty fair. But they could still be free without a new Imperium being some definite outcome.
Mages in most circles could actually receive permission to live outside their Circle by their First Enchanter, we just don’t see it in the games. I believe there was one in a DLC from Dragon Age Origins.
@AiViiV This comment is two years old and my positions have evolved, though admittedly not really in a pro-Circle direction, so I'm sure you'd still take umbrage with me. I don't really see why an individual Avvar tribe or Dalish clan having the occasional small-scale bad outcome is a pro-Circle argument. The Circle is equally ineffectual at protecting people from abominations. In fact, as demonstrated in Origins, the Circle is much *worse* in this respect than smaller social groups with 2-3 mages, because when you gather large groups of mages into an extremely dense living situation, a single one becoming an abomination can easily start a knock-on effect that leaves half the Circle possessed and the Templars with no choice but to kill everyone. But more than that, I don't really think Tevinter is bad because mages are in charge, any more than Orzammar is bad because dwarves are in charge, or Orlais is bad because humans are in charge. All of those places are in the shitter because a group of elites consolidating power over large populations is *always* bad. Everyone would be better off socially in small, free societies like the Avvar and Dalish, instead of those with power shackling those without it for their own interests, but without your own consolidated power, you get conquered by other people who cared less about doing the right thing. There are no good people with power. Just good people on the ground, and bad people with power, whose best argument for their existence is they *might* be protecting you from worse people with power, depending who you ask. Everything in Dragon Age is fucked. Just like in real life! That's part of what I love about it.
Since both Hawke and the Warden can be templars without lyrium I think it might be just propaganda that it's needed. But the fact that as the inquisitor you wouldn't be privy to the same information as either the HoF or Hawke would mean the Inquisitor would be more likely to take the propaganda at face value, plus it gives weight to your specialization decision when in prior games you could take multiple specializations with barely a comment from anyone unless you chose blood mage.
Wow tbh I always hated Templar’s but this video made me kinda see how hard it must be for them....still don’t really like them ( mage freedom all the way) but this really put things in a new perspective for me 😸😸😸
Well the way i see it in order to protect the life of many, some will have to suffer . Whether it be Mages or Demon a Templar must protect the People and the Chantry even if it means dying.
gwirith14 except it also shows the opposite! How many times in the series have we seen magic gone wrong ,Compared to Templar’s gone wrong? The feralden circle was almost destroyed by one mans ambition,hundreds died in red cliff because one stupid kid and his mother didn’t know how to controls his power/plus a blood mage! If he was in a circle those people wouldn’t have died. Hell even in dragon age 2 the game that is almost entirely pro mage has the Templar’s being right in the end more than the mages are, Since everything that makes the Templar’s paranoid about the mages,the mages end up doing(blood magic,ritual summoning,demons,blowing up half the city) Also in dragon age inquisition when you are facing an ancient powerful mage and his tevinter army(more mages) and a demon invasion who do you pick? The untrained group who’s magic is as unreliable and unpredictable and them and susceptible to demonic hold? Or the group of knights who’s lives are dedicated to stopping unchecked magic and specifically trained to deal with demons and supernatural threats? Ultimately the entire systems needs fixed, mages are hereto stay and that’s both a problem and a solution but Templar’s also need to stay to make sure that they stay the solution rather than just another problem,Both groups leadership is usually the issue ultimately.
@@xdclancer8847 Connor is not to blame, he was a child who was taught to hide what he can do as if it was something shameful. Redcliffe is a product of Chantry, actually :) If mages could inheirt and the law didn't state that mages must be kept in a circle, Isolde wouldn't hide Connor's magic and he could be taught properly. A lot of mages in Kinloch hold supported Uldred. cause the cirlce was slightly better than Kirkwall. It still was a prison. Kirkwall is an extreme, but it was simply a matter of survival for any mage. Meredith could make anyone tranquil for simply sneezing. They made an 11 year old, a literal, child, tranquil instead of teaching her. Really, for me DA2 has no pro-Templar arguments and I totally support Anders blowing up the chantry. They had that coming and not only for what they've been doing to the mages. Look at apostates and look at Tevinter, especially at Tevinter, that for all it's faults, knows how to teach magic. There's blood magic everywhere in Tevinter and there are no abominations rampaging through Minrathous, like there were in Kirkwall. Morrigan is into shady magic and is perfectly in control. Dalish don't have Templars and manage just fine (until it was retconned in Inquisition, which is just one big Templar-whitewashing Chantry propaganda). And the biggest argument against Tempalrs: Avvar mages. cause Inquisiton apparently forgot to give a pro-Templar argument in Jaws of Hakkon. They have more contact with spirits than any circle mage, they have a ritual that requires one becoming possesed by a spirit and then releasing it and, big surprise, it works.
U know Ghil. I always liked the Mages more then the Templars. Not cuz i'm a Pro-Mage guy, but cuz Mages can blow shit up, while the Templars are just kinda stupid.
Honestly, I felt really bad for the Templars in DA2 and DA:I, like Ghil said, most Templars just want to do good and it's just a shame a large portion of them became corrupted through red lyrium or just.. insanity. Making it to where they can't really be trusted. Is weird to think about because I played as a mage in all three Dragon Age games.
Template DO NOT need lyrium. Lyrium just makes Templar abilities stronger (or so the chantry says). Alistair has never taken a single drop of lyrium. In fact, considering the chantry's stranglehold on the lyrium trade, such a dependence would likely have mentioned he'd never would have been a Warden in the first place. Remember, Wardens must be politically neutral, and you cannot be politically neutral if you are addicted to a substance only ONE FACTION HAS. Also, while it is likely that lyrium grants a short term booster to Templar powers, the degrade in their mental faculties I believe weakens them overall. In origins you meet a Templar, who describes a troop of he and his fellow knights struggling to kill a blood mage when he unleashed his magic. Templars ended suffering several casualties before one was able to sneak up on the mage and break his neck. However in the Dragon Age manga "Those Who Speak" King Alistair, who has only recently begun retraining himself in the Templar arts, goes to Tevinter to confront a Magister who kidnapped his father. Said Magister unleashed his full power on Alistair in an attempt to enthrall him and Alistair shrugged off his magic and noped his power into oblivion. The Magister flees and the story continues... (ps Alistair duels sten, it's a great story seriously read it!). The point being, either Alistair has more mental willpower than an entire troop of seasoned veteran Templars, or lyrium boost to Templar abilities comes at a cost of weakening those same abilities over all. It's likely Templars only believe they need lyrium to use their abilities because after a point they no longer have the will to muster their skills without it. Also as lyrium erodes away at a person's mind they probably struggle to remember wielding their powers without it, if they can remember wielding them at all. In short, Templars requiring lyrium is a fucked up, lie the chantry uses to control their faithful soldiers. A lie that quite possibly even makes their already incrediblely dangerous job EVEN MORE DANGEROUS.
@@exiledium360 except Alistair still has Templar abilities, and still hasn't taken lyrium. Also, if Templars need Lyrium to use Templar abilities, but don't get Lyrium until after they complete their training, how were they trained to use Templar abilities.
@@wash016 copy pasting from someone on reddit who read the comics which Alistair appears in "It was actually revealed in the silent grove comic that Alistair was only able to continue using Templar abilities because he was relatively fresh off lyrium so it was still in his system or something. Years later, in the comic, he has to resume taking it in order to use those abilities again. Still not sure how he was ever able to teach templar powers to the warden though." i haven't read the comics myself. it seems like BioWare have retconned a lot of the lore, mainly because they didn't expect DAO to get sequels.
@@exiledium360 that is some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard. No disrespect to you guys, but that's some bullshit right there. So Bioware is telling us that Alistair, despite not taking lyrium for YEARS if at all, still had lyrium in his veins even though Templars, who take it semi regularly for YEARS usually need to top off their lyrium philters before every mission... or has Bioware just also retconned how long Alistair was in the Wardens?
~holds up the comic~ The exact words. Isabela: So how'd you do that thing with Titus...? Alistair: I used to be a templar--fighting mages is what we do. After the Tellari Swamps, I thought I'd get back into practice. Honestly, the wiki that mentions this "fact" points to Those Who Speak. I literally read the entire thing again and that is the only thing anyone says about the Templar stuff. Doesn't speak to Lyrium use at all, nor does Alistair pull out a special box or take a swig of lyrium drink. People keep saying Gaider retconned it but I can find no evidence that he did, other than the source being this comic, which to me in no way changes what he used to say. Until I get a reference that's a hell of a lot clearer than a comic that doesn't mention lyrium at all, I'm sticking with "everyone lies and no one knows what's going on in Thedas". And also, even if Alistair never took lyrium for his templar abilities, he's a half-elf, dragon-blooded, mage-birthed grey warden, so he likely isn't the one we should be using as the truth of all Templars. ETA: Finally found the transcription of the entire interview he "says it" in. /"Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. /" Honestly, it's such an offhand musing. No one who has the majority of the world of Dragon Age in their head is going to be able to sit down at an interview and be able to just pull every piece of detail out accurately. And it's a total combination of things that are in game, things that were planning and cut, things that they wanted to do and couldn't add, gameplay functionality, plans for the future, etc. And even then, in this interview he never says Alistair used lyrium and then stopped. He could have forgotten that Alistair joined the wardens right before his vows instead of after them. He could have been thinking about how they always wanted lyrium consumption to be a thing in game but couldn't do it back then so in his head it's always been that way but gameplay isn't actually that way. -shrugs- We're also talking about an organization that doesn't tell their Seekers they will be made Tranquil, just for a second. Or that there was a cure for Tranquility. Sooooo.... screw the Chantry. If you want to find the whole interview you can google "gaider" and like "Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting" and it should come up on the swooping-is-bad livejournal, of all places. As an aside, the Joining ritual does have lyrium in with the darkspawn and archdemon blood, along with herbs. So he did technically have a sip of a concoction that had lyrium in it.
Say what you will about the Templars, they got some sweet Armor.
They do in fact have some sweet armor
Studies show their armor is...(checks notes) "dope asf"
They look dope. But they always get a bad wrap because people are like “no no magic is good!!” Yet they summon demons with it, cause three faction wars, and turning people into a a broom.
@@Motard.Actual templars are addicts who can easily become mentally unstable not only by the mage threats they are supposed to fight, but also by the lyrium they use for their abilities. And Templars also end up having the most mentally unprepared people for it who end up doing more damage than good. Good example, Kirkwall templar's and Cullen when you grant the Circle independence and he ends up killing 2 innocent apprentice.
@@hollowedheralds3332😂😂
In origins it’s stated by Alistair that he learned his abilities as a Templar before taking lyrium and that lyrium isn’t necessary for them to learn their abilities just that most don’t start learning until after they take it and lyrium makes their abilities stronger
I heard (might be on this channel, too) that Alistair had actually taken lyrium, but like, the first time only. As in, he fibbed a little in Origins. But I can't point you to a source or tell you where I heard it, so if anyone here knows, pls tell us
Or his mother holds a part in it.
In origins the warden may turn into a Templar and never need to take lyrium, while in Inquisition you make a philter in order to achieve your skills, thus, I think that you may not need lyrium but it shortens the path to the skills and some "weaker" people may need lyrium to even achieve it at some rate
In DAO it was likely something of a mess up by writers, but : 1)DAI seems to come to the position that lyrium isn't necessary for everyone as all have this faithful potential, but most people need it as their shortcut to reach such powers much sooner and easier, 2)I like to think that the now very canonical magical/powerful heritage of Alistair has something to do with how he lucked to being so easily a Templar in abilities. I think the gist by now is that the general templar population does still have to have something to with lyrium, but the deeper nature of templar powers, perspectives, identity goes further than that material ingestion.
@@aledrone759 The specializations in Origins are sort of completely unrelated to the gameplay and lore itself. You can make a character a templar just like how you can make aomeone a blood mage, but it doesnt impact the game itself and is sort of seperate. Really in all DA games, the combat is separate from lore all together and plays by its own rules
The Jaws of Hakon DLC and the meeting of Ameridan raised SO many questions for me about how the Templar order and the mages interacted and cooperated at the beginning of the Chantry. That Ameridan was surprised that mages were no longer welcomed as members of the Seekers (and I assumed, Templars as well) took me off guard and rewrote much of what the previous games said of the mages and Templars. The fact that Ameridan had a spirit guide, like Wynne, also surprised me since the definition of abomination had been rather black and white up to that point.
Great video, as always, Ghil! I hope you have a wonderful one!!!
The previous games did indicate that things were significantly better, then they got much worse, with then the Chantry doing lots of social bandaids on keeping the Circle system intact, until the recent ripping off of those bandaids. There was always a period where a lot of organizations and peoples unified (generally around Orlais focal point) against the heretics in various ways outside. It was an imperfect deal but many signed up for it, including mages themselves, so there were good reasons and relations to do so. The time then was one where rampaging mages (and resulting abominations) were a more distinct and visceral threat. But just as abominations were a threat, yes I'd agree that spirit guides were a revelation to players, as we now have to understand that centuries ago there was a relatively more normal environment where spirits/demons are considered, and not just through Tevinter's doings or Rivain's culture etc, but everywhere. A lot of DAI writing was to say to us that the 'norms' of walls between the realms, cannot stand as they have been.
I just put this together: Lyrium root word : Lyrics, as in a song. Lyrium/Lyrics is Titan's Blood, we know that now. Perhaps the "hunger" is a call to serve a titan, but to a non dwarven mind it does not work and instead slowly deteriorates their mental health instead. Similar to the song of the Archdemon on Grey Wardens?
It probably works to its smaller extent, as all beings of flesh, but yes perhaps its a more alien song that gets 'misinterpreted' (though insert some faithful arguments about how it all has to do with a definitely-real Maker). But the irony is that we can probably say by now that the dwarven pull of the Stone is at least a more reliable phenominon in Thedas than anything almost anyone experiences of the Maker. The Stone is as real as a Titan. The Maker (so far, as DAI progressed to deconstruct the Chantry) can almost be assumed to be mistakenly a Titan (though IMO it'll be more than this).
I'm a bit surprised we don't hear about hunger demons typically targeting (not in dreams like mages of course) Templars when their addictions can make them feel a terrible hunger.
Something a lot of people seem to forget is that Alistair has taken lyrium before, in the form of the GW Joining. Darkspawn blood, archdemon blood, lyrium and other ingredients. So i'm now under the impression that while Alistair didn't lie about not needing lyrium to use templar powers, he may not have put two and two together; he's not the sharpest bulb in the crayon box after all (but we still love the goof). This also fixes the retco of templars do in fact need lyrium, and Alistair was lying to your warden, or that the entire conversation you and he had about templars in Origins never happened.
Another thing is that Avernus discovered that the tainted blood of GW have power beyond that of just sensing the DS; also blight magic is apparently a thing, so maybe the taint is a substitute for lyrium that a trained templar who hasn't taken their first lyrium hits yet can use to use the templar powers.
If what Solas is saying is right and that magic used to be everywhere and everyone had magic to a degree, is taking lyrium a way for Templar's to attain a form of their latent magic? It may not be natural magic like mages, but maybe lyrium awakens this form of magic in Templars? And since the abilities are artificial in nature, maybe that's why it allows them to oppose natural magic? Or maybe Templar abilities are actually magic that stems from the real world (Thedas) and not the fade and that's why it is able to repel fade based magics?
Cole says that Templars reach for something older, something larger like Varric. It seems like how ever templars use lyrium, it makes them want to connect to the Titans. Dagna talks about seeing herself as something big, like mountain big. I have no idea if I'm correct but hope one day we learn more about Titans.
Oh, also Cassandra says that templars are different from seekers. We learn that seekers get their abilities from the fade.
DA seems to define magic as something building from the inside of a mage, outward. Their own imagination (coming from their brains/minds), given form. What the templar 'techniques' are, are more uniform and channeled at least partially from elsewhere; if we get into Titans, we know there's entities that appear to have even a sort of hive-mind regarding them, so physical distance may not be any problem. Both mages and templars are expressing 'power',but even if this was more understood by people in-universe, I'd imagine Templars would still find ways to call it not 'magic' but prayers/blessings/etc like in the rest of the fantasy genre. And being connected to a Titan doesn't mean that this Titan isn't necessarily something that could have to do with a more abstract Maker faith - depending on DA4+ material.
I realise I am late to the party but the idea of Paladin powers may be Dragon Age's interpretation of 'faith magic'.
The reason I quote the word 'faith magic' is because its not really magic, in the same theory as blood magic is not the same as fade magic, or rather a different pool of magic. Magic as a idea can be broken up into various sources to draw on, like fade, blood, blight and 'faith', each of these 'magics' can alter the world by drawing upon power to reshape reality. Templar powers meanwhile work in a sense of 'reinforcing reality', and are essentially based on 'belief', a belief in the world or rather a faith in reality. We know it is considered religious, however you could remove the divine aspect and rather relabel it as self confidence in ones self or place in the universe to reinforce reality because you believe it is so...
I don't know how to explain, but Templar abilities is a person projecting their will and maybe soul to enforce the laws of reality against forces like blight, fade and blood to enforce a 'stabilising effect. I also think this ties into a sub theory on how the blight spreads differently in people, which is due to a persons 'faith.' Faith in the maker is not required, but rather a faith in 'something' to help provide a grounding rod to reality and repel the magical part of the darkspawn taint in the blight disease. It could explain why Liliana is so resistant to the red lyrium corruption, and if people wonder why would priests and religious leaders get the blight, the faith I speak of isn't just reciting the litanies and being influential in the chantry, but rather this power stems from mental training and a singular belief in a 'thing'. As we can tell many religious people in thedas are less than moral people or true to a single value: so the belief requires a purity of faith. This could also explain why the faith of the Maker was spread by the Grey Wardens, as it acts as a 'light' form of immunization of the population. Maybe not fully making everyone immune but giving them a greater chance of resisting infection.
Alistair has never taken lyrium before and still has the abilities of a templar. When asked about it he theorizes that A. Lyrium just enhances the ability to reinforce reality for those already gifted or B. The Chantry is lying to keep the Templars on an addict leash and prevent dissent.
Another possibility is that Alistair's heritage, not as elf-blooded but rather as dragon-blooded, has something to do with his powers not requiring lyrium. That being said we know very little of dragons and how they actually work so that theory could just be me grasping at straws.
As of now, I personally think that the need for lyrium amongst templars is, if not out right a lie as Alistair theorizes, at least is exaggerated by the Chantry to maintain control.
The warden may also become a Templar without any use of lyrium, and the warden had many different origins, so...
I wonder though if all life comes from something Titanic, and just what humans have in them reaches to a Titan far far off to the north where they migrated from, along with more experiences that detach them from it, while the lyrium they ingest to be a Templar is from a more local Titan. I just wouldn't be so sure that only dwarves have a connection to Titans. They could each have their own creative actions that resulted, directly or indirectly, in making/managing people.
Just a correction, Alistair does NOT believe the Chantry is lying to keep the templars on a leash. Your warden can react by saying that, to which he Alistair will respond negatively and his approval will drop by two points. Source: Just restarted DA:O this week and picked this dialogue option.
My thought on Templar abilities and needing lyrium is that templars reinforce reality with their abilities, and that if they think they need lyrium to use their abilities, then they do need it. But someone like Alistair or our warden doesn’t cuz they think they can use Templar abilities and therefore they reinforce a reality that says they can.
but also alistar has bloodragon or at least a part of their power because of his family xd...dk if that interferes somehow or not
this is a really good video on the lore of the Templar,s.
It makes me upset that you don't have millions of subs and views. I just discovered the channel, so don't know if the channel is just new too, but this one needs to blow up.
I remember Alistair said templar's don't need lyrium to preform the skills. And Collen was able to break away from lyrium, (as I helped him) so I feel like one can become a Templar but without lyrium.
Alistair’s statement regarding the intake of lyrium not being necessary in order to utilize templar-abilities was retconned. Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition (even the novels) have all consistently maintained the need to consume lyrium for the special abilities that templars use to work. As for Cullen, you are right, you can help him overcome his lyrium addiction, however he would no longer be able to disrupt magic afterwards. I think his personal arc revolves around finding a way for templars to break free from their addiction at some point, so they can maintain their sanity.
I love the Templar's they get a bad rep for the extremes they sometimes have to go to to control mages, it's easy to say there bad but from what we've seen without Templar's eventually a few bad mages will take over they keep The people safe and are largely unthanked for it
I agree. Glad I am not the only one who feel this
Yeah preach my fellow Templar
I agree, Templars and the circles are necessary, not pleasant but necessary
@@SwobyJ I disagree. There will always be bad people. The templars themselves have proven that. As have the mages, the common folk, the wealthy, and the chantry. I agree that the order should exist but not as it those. Basically, I disagree with the circle and the way it works.
Remember, guns dont kill people, people kill people. Some just so happen to have guns.
@@SwobyJ yes, but my point wasn't political commentary.
(Though I'd like to say that I dont think that banning guns is the real answer as most of those that use guns for nefarious purposes tend to obtain guns through illegal mean. So a ban would just take guns away from those obtaining them responsibly. But countering my own rebuttal most who have committed acts of domestic terrorism have obtain through legal means so, idk maybe. Eh, that is honestly a subject that is kinda beyond me, I must admit, but)
My comment was more geared at the fact that mages are born with a skill. A skill that can be used for every part of the moral spectrum. Even blood magic can have good uses. Much of the lore has stated that it can mess with the mind, so it can potentially be used to "mend a broken mind", basically mental illness. Just like a shield can be used to either protect or bashed someone's skull in. Magic can heal or harm. But my ultimate point, and bare with me here. These are people. Living sentient being. And chantry has taught them to hate themselves, and has taught others to hate them. I afraid that that is largely what the templars have become. How someone was born shouldn't be a jail sentence, or in some cases, a death sentence.
Wonderful video as always!
Lyrium cool aid for everyone!
It's sorta sad how far the templars fell from they're beginning to what we see in DAI
There will be Templars in DA4 and Tevinter, and I am curious whether the writing will keep those as ineffectual as it seems, or so some twist on how they're actually a very secret police that keeps their accomplishments quiet unlike the southern groups.
That goes for mages too. There are good and evil on. Both sides.
Tbf, did they fall that much from what we seen of them in DA:O. The only notably one was Cullen and they surely had risen beyond that. Inquisition tried to make them more redeemable but in Orgins and 2, they were detestable for the most part.
@@TheIfifi mostly bad on templar's from what we've seen. Any of the good ones usually leave the order.
@@channel45853 Right... Meanwhile the mages have been stellar.
Between the circle collapsing in DA:O and nearly dooming Ferelden to DA:II kirkwall explosion and initiation of mage war..
Dragon Age Inqusition had a much more biased, favouring Mages.
I'm annoyed that if you pick mages you'll fight red templars, yet if you pick templars you'll just fight venetori. As if the mages couldn't do anything wrong.
There are plenty of good reasons that the Templar order ought to exist. Considering the situation tehy find themselves in, a world without the Templars would collapse quite quickly.
I have always found the Templars and the Circles an interesting concept. I know how horrific their relationship is, but I've always seen it as the fault of outside interference. I love your noting that many Templars are endoctrinated more to be servants of the Chantry than to do their duty as safeguards against magic. Despite what we see of them, I am actually usually pro-Circles and Templars in my games, because I am trying to reform them. I've always considered magic like science in the real-world. When working with hazardous chemicals or materials, or performing experiments that may have disasterous results, do scientists work in a tee-shit and shorts? Are they doing these experiments in a shopping mall? Chances are, no. They have dedicated research facilities and contained, controlled environments. They wear protective gear, such as gloves and goggles. Even if they are doing an experiment that they've done a thousand times before, they still need to take precautions. The same chemicals that make cleaning supplies also make mustard gas. In Thedas, it operates much the same. Mages are the scientists, magic is the chemicals and hazardous material, spells are the experiments, Circles are the research facility, and Templars are the protective gear, ensuring that in the event that something goes wrong, it doesn't lead to disasterous or long-term consequences. At least, that is how it's supposed to work. The problem, of course, is the Chantry, which manipulates perceptions to make magic seem inherently evil, turning what should be the mages' guardians and protectors into cruel oppressors. As such, I usually like to play characters that are pro-Circle, pro-Templar, but anti-Chantry.
UNQUESTIONABLE THIRST! I can’t even QUESTION how thirsty I am!
….I think you meant “unquenchable” there.
Wish they gave us more of a reason to actually like templars.
2:25 I'm not sure what you meant by game mechanics forgetting that templar abilities require lyrium but t he way I see it, in DAO, lyrium wasn't necessary, then it seems to have been retconned, although, SPOILERS for the Silent Grove, Alistair uses templar abilities against Aurelian Titus in those comics. In DAII, the specialization description seems to imply that Hawke takes lyrium if a templar, the game just doesn't show it or make a big deal out of it.
Its possible that lyrium isn't necessary for Templars to use their abilities, it just makes them stronger. In Jaws of Hakkon the templar that follows Ameridan is one of the first to use lyrium to enhance his abilities and if you read the papers left around you can see why he used it and later starts to regret doing so.
The Templars are a very corrupt division of the chantry that operate largely without oversight and with impunity. Though, the templars themselves are abused by the chantry through lyrium.
All in all though, they overstepped their place by turning the circles into prisons. Dead templars lining the streets of Thedas was inevitable and necessary.
The templars serve an important purpose, which is unfortunately often deliberately overlooked by fans who look at the conflict in a black-and-white fashion. Dragon Age deals with magic in a very “realistic” ore rather believable way where those few who are found to have magic are looked upon with fear, distrust and outright hate. The important point here is that while ignorance and prejudice play a huge role, the fear of magic is anything but unwarranted. The circle as well as the templars serve as the best large-scale option for mages to learn amongst their pears while not being killed by common folks. Additionally they keep mages who can’t control their abilities (which is an extremely huge deal generously overlooked by pro-free mages fans) from causing harm. Conner serves as one of the best examples why mages are not only dangerous, but why people specifically trained to combat magic are needed as well. The abuse mages suffer in those institutions need to be addressed, that’s absolutely correct. And the templars do have internal supervision by the seekers. But saying dead templars across thedas were needed can just as easily be met with saying a large-scale purge of the mages was needed. Both are simplifying statements, not doing justice to the overall complexity of the situation.
Honestly I always thought they smoked the lyrium. Like crack
more dwarf pls
this is the perfect class for me
Thank you for another excellent video! Maybe I have a little sympathy for the Templars now, but I still only side with them for the achievement. :p
In DAO they said you don't need lerim for some abilities but taking it makes them stronger
Is a templar's abilities dependent on lyrium or just needs the initial vigil of lyrium to awaken their abilities? If a Templar who no longer takes lyrium (like cullen) do they lose their abilities to reinforce reality? Or do they still retain the ability just weakened since they are not actively taking lyrium?
They lose the ability
@@MoreLoreThenThereSeems they really don't. Alistair in DA:O says it as much in one of the first questions you can ask him at camp. In his words, Lyrium makes templars stronger and their abilities more effective, but its not a requirement. Hence why he never takes lyrium the whole game - he was taken from the templars early enough that he never got addicted.
@@niedude true, i forgot about that one
And unlike some other things in DAO that may have been reconned, the first issue of "Those Who Speak" shows Alistair use some Templar abilities.
Do we think the hunger is some sort of will of Lyrium that influences the Templars?
Nightmares from stop taking it may be they are influenced by spirits more from sensitivity after taking Lyrium? I guess unless dwarves are also affected similar?
allways thought philters were used to inject lyrium directly into the veins of templars. would fit with lyrium addiction being a real world analog to drug addiction. which also works as a analog to armies giving soldiers anphetamins and strong opoid narcotics in the past.
Can a dwarf be a templar?
I don't know but they are immune to lyrium. "And they can't do magic."
The dwarven Inquisitor can be one, and there’s even unique dialogue if you choose that specialization.
firepawl23 yes- any race can be a Templar.
Yes, there was a dwarf in the novel The Last Flight who was a Templar
Arguably they'd be stronger Templars, but only arguably.
I thought dat da Seekers were more like internal affairs
Little of column A, little of Column B
Will you do a red templar video?
I’m so curious about Templars in Tevinter
We don’t know much about them, beyond them being servants of the Magisters… and something involving grapes and feathers.
I bet they are smoking it.
I was wandering.... could the lyrim they take be...altered...? Like its not pure but not tainted and thats why its so addictive? Or could it be a case of them not being mages it alters their body to crave it desperately due to their lack of mana that its meant to restore thus instead of restoring mana like its meant to it instead works in reverse creating a deathly hunger that will never fade until the poor knight passes?
@Ghil Dithalen Are you sure it's the Seekers you were thinking of, and not the order of fiery promise?
Cassandra herself said that the order of fiery promise considered itself to be the true Seekers, it might be because they could had been around before the Seekers were formed.
How strong our red templars compared to normal templars or seekers
They're much different since red lyrium has it's own form of magic quite unlike fade magic, that is to say: blight magic. It's a bit like a mixture between fade and blood magic, but also has effects that neither of those two have. It's also very powerful...
Red Templars can cast spells (blight magic spells only). Regular Templars cannot.
templars are fuckn rad, i think i prefer siding with them and i always pick the spec for my warriors
Alastair states in Origins that you dont need lyrim to use the template abilities lyrim juwt makes them more effective
The Avvar, Chasind, Dalish, and Rivaini all manage to not only have free mages but even put them in positions of power without any of them having ended up like Tevinter. Obviously I think the situation in Tevinter is fucked, and the Circle system is genuinely less bad than that, but I think the Templars could still use their abilities to police criminal mages and abominations without forcing most mages to live in Circles. I'm even okay with some lesser legal restrictions - like, keeping mages from holding noble title and positions is honestly pretty fair. But they could still be free without a new Imperium being some definite outcome.
Mages in most circles could actually receive permission to live outside their Circle by their First Enchanter, we just don’t see it in the games. I believe there was one in a DLC from Dragon Age Origins.
@AiViiV This comment is two years old and my positions have evolved, though admittedly not really in a pro-Circle direction, so I'm sure you'd still take umbrage with me.
I don't really see why an individual Avvar tribe or Dalish clan having the occasional small-scale bad outcome is a pro-Circle argument. The Circle is equally ineffectual at protecting people from abominations. In fact, as demonstrated in Origins, the Circle is much *worse* in this respect than smaller social groups with 2-3 mages, because when you gather large groups of mages into an extremely dense living situation, a single one becoming an abomination can easily start a knock-on effect that leaves half the Circle possessed and the Templars with no choice but to kill everyone.
But more than that, I don't really think Tevinter is bad because mages are in charge, any more than Orzammar is bad because dwarves are in charge, or Orlais is bad because humans are in charge. All of those places are in the shitter because a group of elites consolidating power over large populations is *always* bad.
Everyone would be better off socially in small, free societies like the Avvar and Dalish, instead of those with power shackling those without it for their own interests, but without your own consolidated power, you get conquered by other people who cared less about doing the right thing.
There are no good people with power. Just good people on the ground, and bad people with power, whose best argument for their existence is they *might* be protecting you from worse people with power, depending who you ask.
Everything in Dragon Age is fucked. Just like in real life! That's part of what I love about it.
Since both Hawke and the Warden can be templars without lyrium I think it might be just propaganda that it's needed. But the fact that as the inquisitor you wouldn't be privy to the same information as either the HoF or Hawke would mean the Inquisitor would be more likely to take the propaganda at face value, plus it gives weight to your specialization decision when in prior games you could take multiple specializations with barely a comment from anyone unless you chose blood mage.
Say what u will they're ability is trash in inquisition. I only found them to be support type not producing much stat wise
Wow tbh I always hated Templar’s but this video made me kinda see how hard it must be for them....still don’t really like them ( mage freedom all the way) but this really put things in a new perspective for me 😸😸😸
Well the way i see it in order to protect the life of many, some will have to suffer . Whether it be Mages or Demon a Templar must protect the People and the Chantry even if it means dying.
Templars are a necessity and are also cool af
@@katarinavidakovic8579 Templars are unnecessary and the game shows it plenty of times.
gwirith14 except it also shows the opposite! How many times in the series have we seen magic gone wrong ,Compared to Templar’s gone wrong?
The feralden circle was almost destroyed by one mans ambition,hundreds died in red cliff because one stupid kid and his mother didn’t know how to controls his power/plus a blood mage! If he was in a circle those people wouldn’t have died.
Hell even in dragon age 2 the game that is almost entirely pro mage has the Templar’s being right in the end more than the mages are,
Since everything that makes the Templar’s paranoid about the mages,the mages end up doing(blood magic,ritual summoning,demons,blowing up half the city)
Also in dragon age inquisition when you are facing an ancient powerful mage and his tevinter army(more mages) and a demon invasion who do you pick?
The untrained group who’s magic is as unreliable and unpredictable and them and susceptible to demonic hold?
Or the group of knights who’s lives are dedicated to stopping unchecked magic and specifically trained to deal with demons and supernatural threats?
Ultimately the entire systems needs fixed, mages are hereto stay and that’s both a problem and a solution but Templar’s also need to stay to make sure that they stay the solution rather than just another problem,Both groups leadership is usually the issue ultimately.
@@xdclancer8847 Connor is not to blame, he was a child who was taught to hide what he can do as if it was something shameful. Redcliffe is a product of Chantry, actually :) If mages could inheirt and the law didn't state that mages must be kept in a circle, Isolde wouldn't hide Connor's magic and he could be taught properly. A lot of mages in Kinloch hold supported Uldred. cause the cirlce was slightly better than Kirkwall. It still was a prison. Kirkwall is an extreme, but it was simply a matter of survival for any mage. Meredith could make anyone tranquil for simply sneezing. They made an 11 year old, a literal, child, tranquil instead of teaching her. Really, for me DA2 has no pro-Templar arguments and I totally support Anders blowing up the chantry. They had that coming and not only for what they've been doing to the mages.
Look at apostates and look at Tevinter, especially at Tevinter, that for all it's faults, knows how to teach magic. There's blood magic everywhere in Tevinter and there are no abominations rampaging through Minrathous, like there were in Kirkwall. Morrigan is into shady magic and is perfectly in control. Dalish don't have Templars and manage just fine (until it was retconned in Inquisition, which is just one big Templar-whitewashing Chantry propaganda). And the biggest argument against Tempalrs: Avvar mages. cause Inquisiton apparently forgot to give a pro-Templar argument in Jaws of Hakkon. They have more contact with spirits than any circle mage, they have a ritual that requires one becoming possesed by a spirit and then releasing it and, big surprise, it works.
Alistair 2:37
U know Ghil. I always liked the Mages more then the Templars. Not cuz i'm a Pro-Mage guy, but cuz Mages can blow shit up, while the Templars are just kinda stupid.
ACAB or ATAB I guess?
The people who disliked are Mages 🙃
The tempo is much better.
Honestly, I felt really bad for the Templars in DA2 and DA:I, like Ghil said, most Templars just want to do good and it's just a shame a large portion of them became corrupted through red lyrium or just.. insanity. Making it to where they can't really be trusted. Is weird to think about because I played as a mage in all three Dragon Age games.
Template DO NOT need lyrium. Lyrium just makes Templar abilities stronger (or so the chantry says). Alistair has never taken a single drop of lyrium. In fact, considering the chantry's stranglehold on the lyrium trade, such a dependence would likely have mentioned he'd never would have been a Warden in the first place. Remember, Wardens must be politically neutral, and you cannot be politically neutral if you are addicted to a substance only ONE FACTION HAS.
Also, while it is likely that lyrium grants a short term booster to Templar powers, the degrade in their mental faculties I believe weakens them overall. In origins you meet a Templar, who describes a troop of he and his fellow knights struggling to kill a blood mage when he unleashed his magic. Templars ended suffering several casualties before one was able to sneak up on the mage and break his neck. However in the Dragon Age manga "Those Who Speak" King Alistair, who has only recently begun retraining himself in the Templar arts, goes to Tevinter to confront a Magister who kidnapped his father. Said Magister unleashed his full power on Alistair in an attempt to enthrall him and Alistair shrugged off his magic and noped his power into oblivion. The Magister flees and the story continues... (ps Alistair duels sten, it's a great story seriously read it!). The point being, either Alistair has more mental willpower than an entire troop of seasoned veteran Templars, or lyrium boost to Templar abilities comes at a cost of weakening those same abilities over all.
It's likely Templars only believe they need lyrium to use their abilities because after a point they no longer have the will to muster their skills without it. Also as lyrium erodes away at a person's mind they probably struggle to remember wielding their powers without it, if they can remember wielding them at all. In short, Templars requiring lyrium is a fucked up, lie the chantry uses to control their faithful soldiers. A lie that quite possibly even makes their already incrediblely dangerous job EVEN MORE DANGEROUS.
the "templars don't need lyrium" thing was retconned after dao apparently. they need lyrium to continue using their templar abilities.
@@exiledium360 except Alistair still has Templar abilities, and still hasn't taken lyrium.
Also, if Templars need Lyrium to use Templar abilities, but don't get Lyrium until after they complete their training, how were they trained to use Templar abilities.
@@wash016 copy pasting from someone on reddit who read the comics which Alistair appears in
"It was actually revealed in the silent grove comic that Alistair was only able to continue using Templar abilities because he was relatively fresh off lyrium so it was still in his system or something. Years later, in the comic, he has to resume taking it in order to use those abilities again. Still not sure how he was ever able to teach templar powers to the warden though."
i haven't read the comics myself. it seems like BioWare have retconned a lot of the lore, mainly because they didn't expect DAO to get sequels.
@@exiledium360 that is some of the dumbest shit I've ever heard. No disrespect to you guys, but that's some bullshit right there. So Bioware is telling us that Alistair, despite not taking lyrium for YEARS if at all, still had lyrium in his veins even though Templars, who take it semi regularly for YEARS usually need to top off their lyrium philters before every mission... or has Bioware just also retconned how long Alistair was in the Wardens?
~holds up the comic~ The exact words.
Isabela: So how'd you do that thing with Titus...?
Alistair: I used to be a templar--fighting mages is what we do. After the Tellari Swamps, I thought I'd get back into practice.
Honestly, the wiki that mentions this "fact" points to Those Who Speak. I literally read the entire thing again and that is the only thing anyone says about the Templar stuff. Doesn't speak to Lyrium use at all, nor does Alistair pull out a special box or take a swig of lyrium drink. People keep saying Gaider retconned it but I can find no evidence that he did, other than the source being this comic, which to me in no way changes what he used to say. Until I get a reference that's a hell of a lot clearer than a comic that doesn't mention lyrium at all, I'm sticking with "everyone lies and no one knows what's going on in Thedas". And also, even if Alistair never took lyrium for his templar abilities, he's a half-elf, dragon-blooded, mage-birthed grey warden, so he likely isn't the one we should be using as the truth of all Templars. ETA: Finally found the transcription of the entire interview he "says it" in.
/"Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards. I think part of that was just the requirements of gameplay, for us to have a specialization as well, so some of that story doesn't quite match up with the gameplay, and I think eventually we'd like to work the lyrium requirement back into the gameplay as well. /"
Honestly, it's such an offhand musing. No one who has the majority of the world of Dragon Age in their head is going to be able to sit down at an interview and be able to just pull every piece of detail out accurately. And it's a total combination of things that are in game, things that were planning and cut, things that they wanted to do and couldn't add, gameplay functionality, plans for the future, etc. And even then, in this interview he never says Alistair used lyrium and then stopped. He could have forgotten that Alistair joined the wardens right before his vows instead of after them. He could have been thinking about how they always wanted lyrium consumption to be a thing in game but couldn't do it back then so in his head it's always been that way but gameplay isn't actually that way. -shrugs- We're also talking about an organization that doesn't tell their Seekers they will be made Tranquil, just for a second. Or that there was a cure for Tranquility. Sooooo.... screw the Chantry. If you want to find the whole interview you can google "gaider" and like "Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting" and it should come up on the swooping-is-bad livejournal, of all places.
As an aside, the Joining ritual does have lyrium in with the darkspawn and archdemon blood, along with herbs. So he did technically have a sip of a concoction that had lyrium in it.
I always chose to be a Templar in 🐉 Age Origins.
I always rescue the Templars when I play Dragon Age Inquisition. I don't consider this to be a good or evil decision. It is JUST a decision.
Is the Chantry anti-gay?
Colt O'Neus No
I don't think so.
There's an interesting discussion here: dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Homophobia_(or_lack_there_of)_in_Dragon_Age%3F?useskin=oasis
Meredith the best templar of all templars
Oh you mean Little Red Riding hood?
The Templars did nothing wrong......
Well, some Templars did, but overall, nah. Anti-Templars just like to ignore all the good ones while simultaneously ignoring all the bad Mages.
But chantry did everything wrong.