I can say in my experience as a man who went to college. I never had a female teacher where my learning style and their teaching style meshed. My grades were always lower in classes with a female teacher. Add in that women are more likely to become teachers. If my experience is at all common this creates a self perpetuating cycle that pushes down men.
Education vs Training. If you are questioning the value proposition of Education, you probably need Training. There has been a confusion of the purpose of the two due to marketing by entities offering schooling.
Students aren't confused. Our society has mixed education and training together and students don't have many options to pick and choose. If you want the "training" necessary to become a doctor, engineer, or accountant, you are required to get the "education" portion of a degree. My father in law was an engineer who learned on the job, but that hasn't been possible for a while.
In the (past) English vernacular there was a distinction between universities and colleges. Universities were for a wider education while colleges were career oriented. However, colleges fought to join the universities and it seems the founder of Pensole makes a strong case to return to the university/college distinction. In general, the current state of higher education institutions is, I think, another example of a general institutional & government tendency to ignore data indicating failure of an idea/program.
That has repeated several times as well. A&Ms used to be for career training specifically in agriculture and mechanics. Tech schools used to be for jobs in a technical field but now many are just typical colleges and universities.
Turning education into corperate feeder programs has problems we've forgotten about. If you don't or can't be a shoe designer anymore can you do anything else for the same level of money? So will industry friendly education systems feeding a particular need of specialized skills educate their students enough generally so they can learn new skills when that specialized need disappears? Or the school over trains for the need? That tension between specialized knowledge and general knowledge is the underlying force pushing universities and colleges to move away from specialization training in favor a foundational general knowledge where the student is taught how to teach themselves over learning specialized skills. And this has been the generally the right approach for high quality education because technological change has been so rapid through the 19th and 20th century which is precisely when most of these institutions were born in America. Corporations only want specialized knowledge and usually only for small time periods. Maybe a decade or two. But humans live much longer than these cycles and they tend not to go back to school in the middle of their life to obtain new skills either.
I was mildly autistic with severe dyslexia and attention deficit. I was not treated well in elementary school where I even staged a protested, as an seventh grader because I was not being tought properly. In high school I was getting A's in Chemistry, Biology, physics, B's in prep math, and in educationally handicapped class trying to learn to write sentences and to spell. I was not considered normal. To try to be normal I struggled through College where I was still not considered normal, graduated with a hurt back, (worked my way through), no marketable skills and emotionally destroyed in the end. I never managed to get through the hiring process to any decent employment and did not have any success in the few jobs I got. I worked mostly as a mobile mechanic until my back would not let me continue. Now weeks away from 70 and with a heart problem I am on $400 SS and $500 SDI living in a van. I have found out that my story is similar to 80% of college educated AS workers, extreme underemployment. My experience with college was mostly a detriment in that it made my expectations high with no results. Maybe if I was trained for an actual job it would have been helpful.🎉
The American higher education system has joined so many industries in being more about the bottom line instead of serving its customer. There needs to be a balance between the two. Greed has us headed for a collapse of some sort. It’ll be really interesting to see how it pans out. I just hope too many people lose too much.
Glovalization and automation removed the good manufacturing jobs that allowed for a solid lifestyle without a college education, then the elites pushed college for all. We cannot absorb the number of college grads we produce, and we need to create a national program for voc-ed, trade, and technical schools to allow for non-college goers to achieve a solid lifestyle as well.
One of the best decisions I ever did was to drop out of college after one year learning the stuff I wanted to learn and meeting my friends. The three years I average making $55,000 a year This was 14 years ago and I saved about 50,000 per year in college cost plus I had three more years of experience and I still make more money than all my friends have stayed in college. There are a few jobs that I could have done but they strictly enforce having the bachelor's degree but in recent years I've been able to get a number of jobs at require a master's degree but they waived it if you could pass the series of tests.
The Design College is an awesome implementation. These are called "Ausbildung" in Germany, and are NOT recognized as higher education, but as a proffesional formation. While not an academic degree, they offer a fast tracking approach for getting people in the job market. They shall not be called college though, as it provides a wrong idea of the type of formation they offer.
When everyone has a degree, the comparative value of a degree is reduced. And don't even get me started on the diploma mill "industry" churning out worthless pieces of paper further weakening the value of upper-level degrees. How's that for an economic perspective?
While it is tempting to make education a tool to elevate yourself above others, it is more productive to look at it as a tool to elevate yourself above yourself. If the only intent of going to university is to become part of an elite group, then you may want to consider other options.
Interesting. So yes, you convinced me that women have more to gain by a college education, as men have more options in the trades or technical training to have a good paying job. So, we should not look at the over-representation of women in college as a problem, it is the marketplace shaping the talent. However. The problem with this arrangement is social: women (the data shows) cannot bring themselves to mate with a lower caste (less-educated) man. This creates huge social problems. The solution is to change both male and female culture, something governments do poorly.
Man why would I pay for that?!? Lol you’d have to pay me! And A LOT! Lol. Even if businesses suddenly decided they wanted boot-camp trained 21 year olds (they don’t and won’t)
I always hear this from people that know better like economist about that we know college is a good investment. But they they say that simply because college graduates burn more over a lifetime than on college graduates but what they don't realize is the reason why is because they're higher IQ they're more ambitious more competitive and more conscientious on average did not college graduates If you take those same people remove college they will still do much better than on college graduates You just get those people overrepresented when you look at just college graduates. They are simply looking at correlations and not finding what's actually causal. If you take low IQ people that are not ambitious that are not conscientious but still got through college these are the folks that are underemployed working as a barista with $200,000 they are quite a few of those it's just more rare.
I can tell you why college just isn't a very good deal anymore If you look at the actual cost the opportunity cost of making good money right away or the other options of getting paid to learn to trade didn't get actual on the job experience. With more people having degrees than ever it's not unique enough unless if you went to one of the top 20 colleges.
This video presumes that going to college is the best option. That is the problem not everyone should have college degrees. We need to promote the trades, strength unions, and make sure that young people understand the trades can be an equal option as a bachelor degree.
Men sending daughters to school and not sons. Not always but its significant enough. Society almost forces girls through college guys not so much. Its resolving itself. Less baby's.
Your solutions are vague and ineffective. Systematic injustice from k- college for boys and men require systematic change. You forget the reason these universities have as many administrators as students is because of programs to address the systemic injustices of previous generations.
How much would it cost to produce a K-12 National Recommended Reading List? The majority of books are mediocre to crap. So if school is mediocre teachers using mediocre books couldn't an excellent book list be better? 100 books for kindergarten 200 books for 1st Grade 300 books for 2nd Grade etc. That would come to 9100 books for K-12. I could have read this in high school if I had known about it: *The Tyranny of Words* (1938) by Stuart Chase George Orwell mentioned Chase in an essay on politics. Chase published the book, *A New Deal* shortly before FDR's famous speech. He was a member of FDR's brain trust. There is lots of old sci-fi free on the Internet now: *Little Fuzzy* by H. Beam Piper *The Servant Problem* by Robert F. Young *Black Man's Burden* & *Border, Breed nor Birth* by Mack Reynolds *Omnilingual* by H Beam Piper *Deathworld* by Harry Harrison *The Status Civilization* by Robert Sheckley
There is higher education, and then there is job training. If your goal is to learn to be a welder or a designer or some other craft, that is job training, a liberal arts education is designed to teach people to think and then, of course to learn a profession such as medicine, law, architecture, engineering, etc. Getting a college degree in anything that ends in studies, i.e., women’s studies, African-American studies, Taylor Swift studies and so on is completely useless, and those who pursue and graduate from this farcical education are equally useless to an employer.
The American university system is not friendly to yong men also many degrees are useless and clearly not worth the time and cost. My grandsons are aware of this and have decided against college, they will do fine, especially without the debt.
I graduated from a well respected state university in 2016 and I didn't notice any lack of men or male instructors. Most of the people I see complaining about higher education have never been near a university and probably can't spell it.
Capitalism is undefeated. Don’t marry and help grow the Economy. Get a 200k student loan and rent an expensive apartment you can barely afford. Feed into the machine people 🤣
I love how all the experts claim that the issue is how boys and girls are "socialized," because OF COURSE they are not allowed to acknowledge innate behavioral differences between the sexes.
Sooooooo tired of the boohoo poor men. School was not easy for this Single Working mom. But I made it thru it. Men can choose to go to college or not. Men Still earn more than women on average And moms earn less $$ than fathers. Moms STiLL do Most of housework And child raising Even When working. Enuff of the boohoo poor men nonsense. Men can step up as women & moms have.
I can say in my experience as a man who went to college. I never had a female teacher where my learning style and their teaching style meshed. My grades were always lower in classes with a female teacher. Add in that women are more likely to become teachers. If my experience is at all common this creates a self perpetuating cycle that pushes down men.
Education vs Training. If you are questioning the value proposition of Education, you probably need Training. There has been a confusion of the purpose of the two due to marketing by entities offering schooling.
Students aren't confused. Our society has mixed education and training together and students don't have many options to pick and choose. If you want the "training" necessary to become a doctor, engineer, or accountant, you are required to get the "education" portion of a degree. My father in law was an engineer who learned on the job, but that hasn't been possible for a while.
In the (past) English vernacular there was a distinction between universities and colleges. Universities were for a wider education while colleges were career oriented. However, colleges fought to join the universities and it seems the founder of Pensole makes a strong case to return to the university/college distinction. In general, the current state of higher education institutions is, I think, another example of a general institutional & government tendency to ignore data indicating failure of an idea/program.
That has repeated several times as well. A&Ms used to be for career training specifically in agriculture and mechanics. Tech schools used to be for jobs in a technical field but now many are just typical colleges and universities.
Turning education into corperate feeder programs has problems we've forgotten about. If you don't or can't be a shoe designer anymore can you do anything else for the same level of money? So will industry friendly education systems feeding a particular need of specialized skills educate their students enough generally so they can learn new skills when that specialized need disappears? Or the school over trains for the need?
That tension between specialized knowledge and general knowledge is the underlying force pushing universities and colleges to move away from specialization training in favor a foundational general knowledge where the student is taught how to teach themselves over learning specialized skills. And this has been the generally the right approach for high quality education because technological change has been so rapid through the 19th and 20th century which is precisely when most of these institutions were born in America. Corporations only want specialized knowledge and usually only for small time periods. Maybe a decade or two. But humans live much longer than these cycles and they tend not to go back to school in the middle of their life to obtain new skills either.
I think if the scope should have been expanded to other countries, more interesting examples of possibilities for education could have been searched.
I was mildly autistic with severe dyslexia and attention deficit. I was not treated well in elementary school where I even staged a protested, as an seventh grader because I was not being tought properly. In high school I was getting A's in Chemistry, Biology, physics, B's in prep math, and in educationally handicapped class trying to learn to write sentences and to spell. I was not considered normal. To try to be normal I struggled through College where I was still not considered normal, graduated with a hurt back, (worked my way through), no marketable skills and emotionally destroyed in the end. I never managed to get through the hiring process to any decent employment and did not have any success in the few jobs I got. I worked mostly as a mobile mechanic until my back would not let me continue. Now weeks away from 70 and with a heart problem I am on $400 SS and $500 SDI living in a van. I have found out that my story is similar to 80% of college educated AS workers, extreme underemployment. My experience with college was mostly a detriment in that it made my expectations high with no results. Maybe if I was trained for an actual job it would have been helpful.🎉
Will college have space for men in the future? Wow, how times have changed.
this is an excellent series! Please continue as I appreciate seeing a topic from multiple angles. Can we do one about the housing market?
The American higher education system has joined so many industries in being more about the bottom line instead of serving its customer. There needs to be a balance between the two. Greed has us headed for a collapse of some sort. It’ll be really interesting to see how it pans out. I just hope too many people lose too much.
Unfortunately I think we need more people in poverty before we're gonna get any real change. And then, who knows how that change will manifest.
Glovalization and automation removed the good manufacturing jobs that allowed for a solid lifestyle without a college education, then the elites pushed college for all. We cannot absorb the number of college grads we produce, and we need to create a national program for voc-ed, trade, and technical schools to allow for non-college goers to achieve a solid lifestyle as well.
I like your site. I visit via RUclips. The audio meter is distracting and irritating. Keep up the good work.😊
Excellent conversation 👏🏾
One of the best decisions I ever did was to drop out of college after one year learning the stuff I wanted to learn and meeting my friends. The three years I average making $55,000 a year This was 14 years ago and I saved about 50,000 per year in college cost plus I had three more years of experience and I still make more money than all my friends have stayed in college. There are a few jobs that I could have done but they strictly enforce having the bachelor's degree but in recent years I've been able to get a number of jobs at require a master's degree but they waived it if you could pass the series of tests.
The Design College is an awesome implementation. These are called "Ausbildung" in Germany, and are NOT recognized as higher education, but as a proffesional formation. While not an academic degree, they offer a fast tracking approach for getting people in the job market.
They shall not be called college though, as it provides a wrong idea of the type of formation they offer.
When everyone has a degree, the comparative value of a degree is reduced.
And don't even get me started on the diploma mill "industry" churning out worthless pieces of paper further weakening the value of upper-level degrees.
How's that for an economic perspective?
While it is tempting to make education a tool to elevate yourself above others, it is more productive to look at it as a tool to elevate yourself above yourself.
If the only intent of going to university is to become part of an elite group, then you may want to consider other options.
Interesting. So yes, you convinced me that women have more to gain by a college education, as men have more options in the trades or technical training to have a good paying job. So, we should not look at the over-representation of women in college as a problem, it is the marketplace shaping the talent. However. The problem with this arrangement is social: women (the data shows) cannot bring themselves to mate with a lower caste (less-educated) man. This creates huge social problems. The solution is to change both male and female culture, something governments do poorly.
The Pensole model seems interesting. Making "college" more like boot camp, which is how many men have historically been trained. I hope it does well.
Man why would I pay for that?!? Lol you’d have to pay me! And A LOT! Lol. Even if businesses suddenly decided they wanted boot-camp trained 21 year olds (they don’t and won’t)
I always hear this from people that know better like economist about that we know college is a good investment. But they they say that simply because college graduates burn more over a lifetime than on college graduates but what they don't realize is the reason why is because they're higher IQ they're more ambitious more competitive and more conscientious on average did not college graduates If you take those same people remove college they will still do much better than on college graduates You just get those people overrepresented when you look at just college graduates. They are simply looking at correlations and not finding what's actually causal. If you take low IQ people that are not ambitious that are not conscientious but still got through college these are the folks that are underemployed working as a barista with $200,000 they are quite a few of those it's just more rare.
I can tell you why college just isn't a very good deal anymore If you look at the actual cost the opportunity cost of making good money right away or the other options of getting paid to learn to trade didn't get actual on the job experience. With more people having degrees than ever it's not unique enough unless if you went to one of the top 20 colleges.
This video presumes that going to college is the best option. That is the problem not everyone should have college degrees. We need to promote the trades, strength unions, and make sure that young people understand the trades can be an equal option as a bachelor degree.
Men sending daughters to school and not sons. Not always but its significant enough. Society almost forces girls through college guys not so much. Its resolving itself. Less baby's.
Your solutions are vague and ineffective. Systematic injustice from k- college for boys and men require systematic change. You forget the reason these universities have as many administrators as students is because of programs to address the systemic injustices of previous generations.
How much would it cost to produce a K-12 National Recommended Reading List? The majority of books are mediocre to crap. So if school is mediocre teachers using mediocre books couldn't an excellent book list be better?
100 books for kindergarten
200 books for 1st Grade
300 books for 2nd Grade
etc.
That would come to 9100 books for K-12.
I could have read this in high school if I had known about it:
*The Tyranny of Words* (1938) by Stuart Chase
George Orwell mentioned Chase in an essay on politics. Chase published the book, *A New Deal* shortly before FDR's famous speech. He was a member of FDR's brain trust.
There is lots of old sci-fi free on the Internet now:
*Little Fuzzy* by H. Beam Piper
*The Servant Problem* by Robert F. Young
*Black Man's Burden* &
*Border, Breed nor Birth* by Mack Reynolds
*Omnilingual* by H Beam Piper
*Deathworld* by Harry Harrison
*The Status Civilization* by Robert Sheckley
There is higher education, and then there is job training. If your goal is to learn to be a welder or a designer or some other craft, that is job training, a liberal arts education is designed to teach people to think and then, of course to learn a profession such as medicine, law, architecture, engineering, etc.
Getting a college degree in anything that ends in studies, i.e., women’s studies, African-American studies, Taylor Swift studies and so on is completely useless, and those who pursue and graduate from this farcical education are equally useless to an employer.
Freakonomic radio... Because there is a want for such knowledge to be public.
The American university system is not friendly to yong men also many degrees are useless and clearly not worth the time and cost. My grandsons are aware of this and have decided against college, they will do fine, especially without the debt.
I graduated from a well respected state university in 2016 and I didn't notice any lack of men or male instructors. Most of the people I see complaining about higher education have never been near a university and probably can't spell it.
Capitalism is undefeated. Don’t marry and help grow the Economy. Get a 200k student loan and rent an expensive apartment you can barely afford. Feed into the machine people 🤣
Feminism and neo-liberal economics, twin evils. Capitalism has more than one expression, this isn't a perfect example.
I love how all the experts claim that the issue is how boys and girls are "socialized," because OF COURSE they are not allowed to acknowledge innate behavioral differences between the sexes.
College is a good place to meet chicks and get lots of nookie. This is by far it’s most significant value.
Sooooooo tired of the boohoo poor men.
School was not easy for this Single Working mom. But I made it thru it. Men can choose to go to college or not. Men Still earn more than women on average And moms earn less $$ than fathers. Moms STiLL do Most of housework And child raising Even When working. Enuff of the boohoo poor men nonsense. Men can step up as women & moms have.
Thanks for proving the point of the video 👍
@@RedIria ???? What do u mean???
@@IndigoBellyDance the raw misandry
@@RedIria The term not applicable to the comment.
When I Was in college in the 90's it was all boohooo poor women.