Greg, can you please comment on "holding" the riser with your "outside" hand while turning? Is this something to assist your core muscles keeping your body and hips in the desirable position? I see novice pilots do this all the time and would value your thoughts
great video, thanks a lot for your work!! but it's difficult to hear/understand you. especially for non-native english people… FlyBubble worths sub-titles!!
Maybe point out to watch grabbing the risers for balance or steadiness though, that's a nasty little habit to have. I grew accustomed to doing that early in my career, and it took a long time to grow out of. There are a couple problems with it IMO. 1) is that in rough air, you certainly cannot fly that way, so why practice a way that will not serve you when things really turn on and get hectic? I would suggest to practice the way you will need to fly under stressful conditions, so that you are most familiar with that technique and don't have a habit of wanting to revert back to your "comfort zone or home base" which simply doesn't work when you need to constantly give your glider large and active inputs in strong conditions. And 2) when your hands are on the risers, I find that your reaction time to feeling, reacting to, and catching collapses is considerably less sensitive and consequently considerably slower to react, and also slower because you have been at "rest" in a static position, rather than moving constantly and tracking the constant change of pressure of the canopy in active thermic air, making you significantly more prone to getting more frequent and also larger collapses because you simply are not feeling the glider. And 3) you tend to not ride with enough feel or pressure on the brakes (which is partially associated with #2) to keep the glider from biting and frontalling. I'm certainly not knocking your video Greg as I find them to be a great asset to the community, but as you are putting them out, might as well be careful with the details and instill the best habits early on in people's career's as I know you intend to do. I was quite uncomfortable in my first few years without a hand touching the riser for balance and steadiness, but ultimately, once I weaned off that habit, which was like a security blanket, it opened the door for far better communication from my glider and for me to become a far better thermal pilot and now had numerous 300k XC flights, including a 384k, and flown in lots and lots of comps, and never once noticed a top level pilot holding their risers, but I have taught and noticed many students doing it, and seen the problems that it can lead to including too often collapses for the reasons I mentioned above. I'm sure that was just particularly smooth day when it absolutely mattered not, but I'm just pointing out that it is not a scalable habit to larger air or top level flying and probably should not be advocated purposefully. Keep up the great videos!
Good points you've raised and I mostly agree with you, but that's not the whole picture. There is a world of difference between (a) hanging on the risers with a closed grip (which I agree is a bad habit and yes, I've trained countless students out of this too) and (b) touching the risers with an open grip: a comfortable and efficient position that is useful for comfort, leverage or stability. I'm not the only one that does it, have a watch ruclips.net/video/F5H_M9p13uo/видео.html. You'll also find many 2 liner pilots holding the risers even when not accelerated, it becomes a more efficient way to control the wing than 'riding with enough feel or pressure on the brakes' which is not best in many situations. With the modern 'speedbrake riser' system on 3 liners, this rear riser contact and control becomes accessible to more pilots. There is nothing wrong with riser contact. If you're referring only to my outer hand during thermaling, this is probably due to UK flying (indoor flying) which relies on very delicate and granular control of weightshift, which I find more accurate and less tiring by having a small point of leverage against the outer riser. When I fly in South Africa or the Alps, I have to hold both reins of the horse, so yes, I do revert to brake contact in powerful air ;-) Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I do listen to these things. I'm trying my best to educate while also having my own flying adventure, analyzing a new wing, focusing on the thermals so I don't land, framing the shot correctly, changing flat camera batteries etc... not every delivery is perfect.
Hey Greg, sorry, I didn't realize that I wasn't clear: My comments were isolated to purely thermal turning (since that was what the topic of the video was about), and not gliding, as many gliders these days actually have rear riser handles and are designed to be flown by the rear risers (which I too do exclusively while on glide unless in severe turbulence, but then with full brake contact, not feathering the riser and losing contact with brake pressure). I did not notice any scenes where Chrigel was "thermalling" while touching his risers. And I think we agree, as you said: "When I fly in South Africa or the Alps, I have to hold both reins of the horse, so yes, I do revert to brake contact in powerful air ;-)" - that was the point that I was trying to make: that students shouldn't get used to touching the risers and learning to rely on touching the risers early for comfort or balance early, as it will be the only method they know coming from a smooth air environment of a training hill or ridge soaring flight, and doesn't scale up to turbulence or thermal flying, so it doesn't really do them any justice, and it will be a lot of extra adjustment for them to overcome (giving up their security blanket in addition to learning how to cope with turbulence at the same time). They can always scale back down easily to the "lazy / comfortable / stable" method of riser touching for suitable conditions if they choose later, but I feel it's important to teach them a scalable technique early, and steer them away from a habit that can lead to being disconnected from the glider, and also not being comfortable at all when it comes time to not being able to have the comfort they have been accustomed to having their entire career when the air really starts moving or convecting. I'm certainly not debating that it wasn't appropriate for the conditions that you were flying in. But for your intended audience of newer or almost completely fresh pilots, they wouldn't know any better, and if they are picking up on each detail, they likely may see this is the correct way to thermal - by consistently making contact with the outer riser, and this is the point that I am challenging. I don't feel it's scalable, especially if they live somewhere where the air is stronger than your hills may typically be, like most other places. If those conditions were sharp and edgy and snappy 3m/s, I know that you would not have been touching the riser, rather "full brake contact" which is scalable. So, again, just a positive critique that there is a small detail here that is not scalable for most parts of the world, and beginners / low intermediates could pick up on. I know from experience that it was a difficult habit to break as I started out as a beginner feathering my risers for security and stability which led to sometimes lightly pinching them... which led to less feel and engagement with the canopy and slower reactions to changes in pressure and, reflecting back, I feel like it opened me up to being more vulnerable to collapses in the early days than was necessary. I just see it as a bad habit to get started with. I prefer to steer my students around that and teach them to feel the glider at all times and use their core muscles for balance. And, you're doing a great job, I'm not trying to be overly critical in the least, I understand your last sentence 100%: " I'm trying my best to educate while also having my own flying adventure, analyzing a new wing, focusing on the thermals so I don't land, framing the shot correctly, changing flat camera batteries etc... not every delivery is perfect." I know the challenges of putting it al together when it comes to staying in the air and getting equipment working and getting things framed and getting the shot. I'm just trying to help by bringing this up. I've seen numerous problems over the years that I have traced back too much contact with the risers -- not the good type like Chrigel or riding rear risers on glide ;) - and I'm mostly focusing my comments on the turning /thermalling phase of flight. Thanks for the discussion, and again, great job with all your content that you put out there, it's a great service IMO!
Very interesting video, and pleased to see I'm getting my turns right. :) Greg, if it helps, I have a suggestion which might improve the audio if you are using a GoPro. Go to DealExtreme (website) and look for the case with side opening. It's very cheap, and having the side opening will allow you to plug in an external mike (and also external power, if you find the battery doesn't last long enough). There is an increase in wind noise with the extra gap - but I have an excellent tip for that too! Hope this helps: ruclips.net/video/7ZgtvRmTszI/видео.html
These videos are getting better and better as you get onto the more advanced topics, can't wait for the next one!
Probably the one I need most!
some good active piloting tips to prevent collapse in there too. great work again!
This one I need to watch a couple more times. Go apply it and then watch it again.
Greg, can you please comment on "holding" the riser with your "outside" hand while turning? Is this something to assist your core muscles keeping your body and hips in the desirable position? I see novice pilots do this all the time and would value your thoughts
Great Video as always or though i found it hard to hear what you was saying in this video but thumbs up from me
Today as the subtitles are available, it's even better :)
thanks for making this video. very usefull
Definitely learned how to react to some feels the glider has been sending my way that I didn't know how to respond to.
Thanks!
great video, thanks a lot for your work!! but it's difficult to hear/understand you. especially for non-native english people… FlyBubble worths sub-titles!!
Always love to see such video, keep it up! Thank you!
such an awesome channel, thank you!!!
useful tips, will definitely use them =)
lovely video
Great stuff!
very useful!
Maybe point out to watch grabbing the risers for balance or steadiness though, that's a nasty little habit to have. I grew accustomed to doing that early in my career, and it took a long time to grow out of. There are a couple problems with it IMO. 1) is that in rough air, you certainly cannot fly that way, so why practice a way that will not serve you when things really turn on and get hectic? I would suggest to practice the way you will need to fly under stressful conditions, so that you are most familiar with that technique and don't have a habit of wanting to revert back to your "comfort zone or home base" which simply doesn't work when you need to constantly give your glider large and active inputs in strong conditions. And 2) when your hands are on the risers, I find that your reaction time to feeling, reacting to, and catching collapses is considerably less sensitive and consequently considerably slower to react, and also slower because you have been at "rest" in a static position, rather than moving constantly and tracking the constant change of pressure of the canopy in active thermic air, making you significantly more prone to getting more frequent and also larger collapses because you simply are not feeling the glider. And 3) you tend to not ride with enough feel or pressure on the brakes (which is partially associated with #2) to keep the glider from biting and frontalling. I'm certainly not knocking your video Greg as I find them to be a great asset to the community, but as you are putting them out, might as well be careful with the details and instill the best habits early on in people's career's as I know you intend to do. I was quite uncomfortable in my first few years without a hand touching the riser for balance and steadiness, but ultimately, once I weaned off that habit, which was like a security blanket, it opened the door for far better communication from my glider and for me to become a far better thermal pilot and now had numerous 300k XC flights, including a 384k, and flown in lots and lots of comps, and never once noticed a top level pilot holding their risers, but I have taught and noticed many students doing it, and seen the problems that it can lead to including too often collapses for the reasons I mentioned above. I'm sure that was just particularly smooth day when it absolutely mattered not, but I'm just pointing out that it is not a scalable habit to larger air or top level flying and probably should not be advocated purposefully. Keep up the great videos!
Good points you've raised and I mostly agree with you, but that's not the whole picture. There is a world of difference between (a) hanging on the risers with a closed grip (which I agree is a bad habit and yes, I've trained countless students out of this too) and (b) touching the risers with an open grip: a comfortable and efficient position that is useful for comfort, leverage or stability. I'm not the only one that does it, have a watch ruclips.net/video/F5H_M9p13uo/видео.html. You'll also find many 2 liner pilots holding the risers even when not accelerated, it becomes a more efficient way to control the wing than 'riding with enough feel or pressure on the brakes' which is not best in many situations. With the modern 'speedbrake riser' system on 3 liners, this rear riser contact and control becomes accessible to more pilots. There is nothing wrong with riser contact. If you're referring only to my outer hand during thermaling, this is probably due to UK flying (indoor flying) which relies on very delicate and granular control of weightshift, which I find more accurate and less tiring by having a small point of leverage against the outer riser. When I fly in South Africa or the Alps, I have to hold both reins of the horse, so yes, I do revert to brake contact in powerful air ;-) Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I do listen to these things. I'm trying my best to educate while also having my own flying adventure, analyzing a new wing, focusing on the thermals so I don't land, framing the shot correctly, changing flat camera batteries etc... not every delivery is perfect.
Hey Greg, sorry, I didn't realize that I wasn't clear: My comments were isolated to purely thermal turning (since that was what the topic of the video was about), and not gliding, as many gliders these days actually have rear riser handles and are designed to be flown by the rear risers (which I too do exclusively while on glide unless in severe turbulence, but then with full brake contact, not feathering the riser and losing contact with brake pressure). I did not notice any scenes where Chrigel was "thermalling" while touching his risers. And I think we agree, as you said: "When I fly in South Africa or the Alps, I have to hold both reins of the horse, so yes, I do revert to brake contact in powerful air ;-)" - that was the point that I was trying to make: that students shouldn't get used to touching the risers and learning to rely on touching the risers early for comfort or balance early, as it will be the only method they know coming from a smooth air environment of a training hill or ridge soaring flight, and doesn't scale up to turbulence or thermal flying, so it doesn't really do them any justice, and it will be a lot of extra adjustment for them to overcome (giving up their security blanket in addition to learning how to cope with turbulence at the same time). They can always scale back down easily to the "lazy / comfortable / stable" method of riser touching for suitable conditions if they choose later, but I feel it's important to teach them a scalable technique early, and steer them away from a habit that can lead to being disconnected from the glider, and also not being comfortable at all when it comes time to not being able to have the comfort they have been accustomed to having their entire career when the air really starts moving or convecting. I'm certainly not debating that it wasn't appropriate for the conditions that you were flying in. But for your intended audience of newer or almost completely fresh pilots, they wouldn't know any better, and if they are picking up on each detail, they likely may see this is the correct way to thermal - by consistently making contact with the outer riser, and this is the point that I am challenging. I don't feel it's scalable, especially if they live somewhere where the air is stronger than your hills may typically be, like most other places. If those conditions were sharp and edgy and snappy 3m/s, I know that you would not have been touching the riser, rather "full brake contact" which is scalable. So, again, just a positive critique that there is a small detail here that is not scalable for most parts of the world, and beginners / low intermediates could pick up on. I know from experience that it was a difficult habit to break as I started out as a beginner feathering my risers for security and stability which led to sometimes lightly pinching them... which led to less feel and engagement with the canopy and slower reactions to changes in pressure and, reflecting back, I feel like it opened me up to being more vulnerable to collapses in the early days than was necessary. I just see it as a bad habit to get started with. I prefer to steer my students around that and teach them to feel the glider at all times and use their core muscles for balance. And, you're doing a great job, I'm not trying to be overly critical in the least, I understand your last sentence 100%: " I'm trying my best to educate while also having my own flying adventure, analyzing a new wing, focusing on the thermals so I don't land, framing the shot correctly, changing flat camera batteries etc... not every delivery is perfect." I know the challenges of putting it al together when it comes to staying in the air and getting equipment working and getting things framed and getting the shot. I'm just trying to help by bringing this up. I've seen numerous problems over the years that I have traced back too much contact with the risers -- not the good type like Chrigel or riding rear risers on glide ;) - and I'm mostly focusing my comments on the turning /thermalling phase of flight. Thanks for the discussion, and again, great job with all your content that you put out there, it's a great service IMO!
and thank you for your comments, critical discussion is useful for those who come after (and actually bother to read the comments ;-)
Excellent video but please drop the music next time.
Very interesting video, and pleased to see I'm getting my turns right. :) Greg, if it helps, I have a suggestion which might improve the audio if you are using a GoPro. Go to DealExtreme (website) and look for the case with side opening. It's very cheap, and having the side opening will allow you to plug in an external mike (and also external power, if you find the battery doesn't last long enough). There is an increase in wind noise with the extra gap - but I have an excellent tip for that too! Hope this helps: ruclips.net/video/7ZgtvRmTszI/видео.html
There isn't much need for the background music.