Check Raise JAMMED On The River
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- Caller gets into a very tough spot when he makes a backdoor flush but gets check raised at the end of the hand.
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So who finds a call and who finds a fold here, and why?
He should have checked back if he was intending to fold to a half pot sized raise. Hero's range from V's perspective is going to be a lot of sets and two pairs that he thinks he can pressure out on a scary river card. And if the opponent has gin, like the only hand hero is going to try to value bet to raise on him is going to be sets and straights (and even sets are going to sometimes check back when the gin river hits) Such a leak.
I'm folding. On turn I'm putting opponent on a lot of Tx, JQ, JK hands. On river, none of these hands take this line, and opponent probably shows up with only flushes.
I call but, it depends on how much that other 3500 means to me/him.... if you aren't willing to bet it, dont put it on the table. K9♦️s. Makes a lot of sense tho
I call because his hand is so disguised back boor flush go there and he induced check raise bluff on the river, also thinking back to the donk lead on the turn whats he reppin???? Major clue he don't have nothing just seeing how dude was gone react then he smooth calls with the intent of bluffing on the river. Smh I snap call show me I'm beat. (Shipp it!!!!)
@Poker R P the odds of opponent making back door diamonds goes up a lot when he slides $5k chips out there. You could make the argument he has backdoor diamonds all day long with this line
Caller talks in fast-forward.
healsotalksinrunonsentences
buthealsonevereallysaysanything
This is Alex who plays the high stakes at the lodge .
The caller said it would have been ambitious to C-bet the flop. I think it was ambitious to raise pre-flop with that sub-par hand without a plan to barrel every street thereafter.
@@berdyderg900 Of course! That's a wrecklessness raise unless you have a plan, then a fold on the river with a backdoor flush??? That's a miserable nit!!!
@@sesloajit5185 So why get involved in the hand if a six high flush is not good enough???
@@sesloajit5185 Then why raise there? I don't think it's also ubernit to fold there when you get exactly into this position. You hit your hand about as well as can be expected, short of quads, and you are trying to find a fold? o-0. I am ok with opening here, but the way the hand played, if you are finding a fold there, you should probably fold pre then.
@@sesloajit5185 He bet the river with a low end flush. Bad play.
@@buddy151 that's what I said. I disagree with bart going for value there
These spots are underbluffed playing live and check raises on the river are typically always for value at these stakes. I think the caller made a good lay down. He doesn't have to do this with the NUT A either. A hand like 89dd makes perfect sense here as well.
SNAP CALLLL!!!!!!
I think you were being polite here saying you would sometimes fold.
I wouldn't put in 900 to fold for 3x more with a made hand. Only hands I would worry about is KdQd and maybe 8d7d or Ad9d, but if you have it, you have it. Too many other straights and 2 pair combos with a river jam from a competent player.
He isnt x/r two pair or a set. That's just suicidal. As for straights they should just call because that raise on the turn is almost definitely a diamond draw. And 87dd isnt a x/r value hand when op bets as the only hand that should call is 65dd. I honestly dont know what I wouldve done here.
Agreed. I think it's so hard to to value raise a set here, especially as a check raise. What does that even target that potentially you are losing to that you want to fold out? Straights are going to sigh call, and no flush is ever folding here.
@@ZeraLord straights sigh call and no flush is ever folding? Hero did fold a flush!
Also if you’re check raising a set to try and get folds that’s bluffing not value raising.
It’s hard to see why someone would turn a set into a bluff though.
@@nicks210684 I was agreeing with the above? Maybe with how deep they were, a straight considers leading out, and making a fold if H raises? He has a flush or a 1 pair/Ad hand.
@@ZeraLord agree, vilain's only bluffs should be with the Ad. That's 3 combos of bluff if we assume he's flatting ATo from the SB.
I put the the other guy on A♦️9♦️ or k9♦️
KdQd 8d7d Qd8d Ad4d also possible, too many value hands to call with 6 high flush, but I agree Ad9d most likely
Kqdd
@@johnnyolson4824 eliminaye q8d and a4d imo, that should be in sb flatting range pre
He never has those hands the way the hand played out.
this is a knowledgeable caller...but he's a bit talkative lol...but that's why he called in. 🤣 good video & analysis on both ends.
i appreciate how the caller always asks "what do you think of this?" rather than immediately trying to defend some backwards thought-process, as is the case with most of the folks who call in.
Yeh but those guys usually win the pot with as much luck as skill and don't want to hear any critique.
True, but he was also defending his actions when Bart literally says "I have to disagree with you on that one..." and the caller defends his actions, and says "anyways...the turn/river...." just to move the convo forward instead of acknowledging what Bart says if it's contrary to his own thinking.
"If I think he's on his case money I'm gonna fold." That's a classic Bart!
Hero's value hands are sets, straights and flushes. A flush is the top of his range therefore it's a call.
I love it when people check and let me realize my equity
I feel like that hand was over-discussed. And, the caller over-thought it on the river. I truly believe this is a snap call unless there's some serious history with the villain that specifically tells you he's prone to checking the nut flush on the river. You just hit a back door hand that he's almost never gonna put you on based on how you played it.
The fact that 3 straights come in on the river and the hero really never has any straights here I can totally see the villian having raised QK/Q8/78 with one diamond as a value raise.
BIt out there but do you think Villain turned Ax Ad into a bluff, Flats preflop from small blind looking to reraise/play trappy. Checks in flow to the pre flop raiser on the flop, leads for value on the turn and puts hero on enough diamond draws to call the raise on the turn. Checks the river when the diamond comes in and when he gets bet into knows that his 1 pair isnt good and has the nut flush blocker to make the all in bluff. Seems like one of the only possible bluffs espcially considering the villain was described as a pro/reg
QJ with a Q of diamonds is the only bluff hand I could think of. He knows his Jack is not good enough but he blocks top straight and a flush with his Q.
I don't really believe in folding flushes, especially on a non-paired board, but this one's kinda close. We got the weakest flush and villain bets 10x the pot. I like hero's thinking here. He only has 1x invested in the pot, is he really risking 10x on a bluff?
I don't like the big bet on the river at all. There's a big chance Villain has a higher flush. And if he doesn't, what hands is he supposed to call with when the backdoor gets there? JT?? A small set?
Those two things combined would make me choose a smaller size.
Either something like 15-25% so i get called by worse hands. Also it might induce a bluff.
OR i make it something like 50% and fold to a raise (this play i would only do against a known nit/low frequency bluffer who doesn't have it in him to make such a move...
How much would you bet with Ad5d?
I had 6-5 suited diamonds last night and the flop gave me a back foot flush draw back foot straight flush draw with a 9 diamonds and I folded and it cane runner runner straight flush with 8 diamonds 7 diamonds. I got so tilted after folding that hand. And my first hand on that table I had A clubs Q something and the flop came QJ10 all clubs and someone shoved with K9 and I called and 🧱 🧱 so I lost! I was down from $1000 to $200 and managed to rally back and break even
Dont feel bad i flopped a set of jacks with 3 hearts. I bet got raised and called. Then another heart comes guy bets 1200 and i knew he had ace high flush. I folded. 2 other people called and the board pairs would have given me a full house. Guy did flop ace high flush. Just brush it off and move on. Let the past die lol. I flopped quads few hands later and same guy flopped a full house. So i got the money in the end anyway. I would have called that second hand. Dont need to put that on tilt.
I feel like all the people who say snap call play poker with there daddies trust fund. Villian calls 3.6x re~raise on turn within 5 seconds? Don’t you think top 2 pair or a set would likely 3 bet turn to protect? Tough lay down but I think it was the right play.
KdQd makes sense to me
I can't find really any bluffs unless he turns Ad 10x into a bluff. He's not jamming a set or straight for value after facing a pot sized bet. I see this as complete value and find a fold. Ad2d, KdQd, Ad9d, Kd9d are the combos that come to mind. Plus, after the SB flats your preflop raise, I'm immediately putting him into the category of someone incapable of finding a c/r river bluff. It's live poker, that spot rarely happens.
What about AA w the diamond ... the flat on the small is so strange for a pro ... with solvers this days the SB flat range is oriented to a trap maybe
Your right.. and when hero raises him on the turn and he flats it looks to much like Ad9d and villian got sneaky on the river with the check..
Totally agree, vilain is probably lying, he had it obviously
If you never fold a back door flush heads up, on an unpaired board. You are doing good in the long run! That's how I would look at this.
@@berdyderg900 even bart didn't know what to do exactly on this hand. The player is unknown it's a call.
@@berdyderg900 play the player is how i look at it. Knowing ranges, equity and position is important to know. You can learn a lot about players in a few orbits. Going with your gut is part of the game. You can know all the math in the world and still be a losing player. I regret many a time not going with my gut. Taking the time to consider everything including your gut is how you make decisions.
That guy couldn’t shut up lol
“When I raise the turn, I’m not repping any strong hands.”
“Now that I’m repping two pair plus on the turn, shouldn’t this guy lead the river?”
Listening to this guy is hard work, too fast!
He should’ve bet the flop to block possible bluffs on the river. He would’ve gotten a call and more info about the player. I’m my opinion this was a call. Villain was likely over aggressive like I’ve seen before at M8trix.
Villain could have also had A-9d. Or K-9d. Nutted hands seem more logical given the action on the turn
It's probably not optimal for a strategy to have a player arrive to the turn effectively lacking all reasonably strong hands. The caller seems to admit that this is true of his strategy. On the turn, he decides that raising is the optimal play despite his range lacking nearly all of the strong hands, while citing that his hand holds a lot of equity, which it doesn't. On the river, he decides that he's going to take his opponent to the cleaners, by placing a large bet with his 6 high flush, convinced that his opponent would have lead the river if they too made a flush, and that they would be forced to call the bet with a set or two pair. Not only is this combination a poor choice for this bet sizing (placing a very polarized bet given the action with a hand that doesn't fit into such a range), but the reasoning is very optimistic.
For whatever it's worth, I think this hand is played very poorly on each street, but it was an interesting hand. Thank you for sharing it.
Classic case of caller trying to outthink the room so to speak.
I don't think a caller has ever been more desperate for approval
I think he should C bet the flop here if he's playing this hand as the Pre flop aggressor. When Bart makes the point about so many turn cards helping the hero, those all need to be barrelled. Question though - if the turn was a connected card to the board like a Q or J bringing a club flush draw for example - would that be time to just shut down & check back the turn, giving up? Always wonder the right play on a different turn card. Especially because he checked back the flop & didn't C bet.
Bluffs: A5s; A2s; 65s; Adx; QJxx. Rare bluffs pocket 8/7s. I hate betting the river with like the worst possible flush in our range; atleast against competent opponents, that's the reason for the raise on the turn; to get value from worse hands that wont payoff.
I guess he got Ad9d Kd9d or AdXx
He does not have the lowest flush. Villain could have pair plus flush draw with 24d. Ive seen mamy times in live poker guys cold call out of Sb with those hands. Alot of ppl dont think like that "oh i shouldnt be cold calling out of the Sb out of position with 3 ppl behind" its more so "i have suited 1 gappers and if i smash this flop i can win a big pot" lol
could he not be overvaluing a straight or a set?
I don't think so
Strait seems possible depending on the player.
Other than JJ any sets are going to reraise turn and don’t see many people raising river
There are so few hands villain could have here that call the flop and turn and end up with a flush on the river. He can't have QdJd because of the river. So just 7d8d, KdJd and KdQd for a gutshot, Ad9d, or floating with any random Adxd. I'd have to call here. The amount of sets, two pair hands, and bluffs just so far outnumber the value hands. Villain could even shove here with KxQx if he didn't put Hero on diamonds.
A9d suited
89 diamonds
Learn a lot watching these. I can't figure out why these players will call you for your opinion and advice and then keep interrupting you. Kind of like my ex-wife. That's very telling in itself. Lol. Thanks for the education.
SB has a set
Raising the turn doesn't make any sense. Looks bluff-heavy. I would keep telling the story and bet HUGE (1300-1350) on the river, repping a bluff.
Hope he talks himself into a call with two pairs, a straight or some rivered tp (KJ/QJ). Rec players get tunnel vision in spots like this a lot of times and convince themself you are just trying to screw them over. They can get sticky and pay off for sure.
Also, with an overbet I would definately fold to a x/r shove though. Even more unlikely they would come up with a bluff then..
Pocket jacks, that for whatever reason didn’t raise pre flop
KQd ??
Is this Leo from seven mile?
Lol
What a terrible fold ?! Playing 56 suited and hitting backdoor flush and you fold ?! What's the point of playing that hand then ?! Wtf ?! 🙋🏼♀️🤦😂🤣
What a terrible comment
@@Azar1571 what a terrible reply ! 🤣😂
I’m a donk, and would call reluctantly. If I raised my flush draw on the turn, I’m calling. Thinking the guy wouldn’t check a flush on the river.
If the Villain had a big flush, wouldn't he have either bet the river for value or if he was going to check raise, check raise smaller because he wants the Hero to call, yes?
the caller seemed to mention that he yet still folded doesn’t make sense
I do not believe the friend, he had big flush. Although while at the table I call.
I dont think he has a bluff. I think villain thinks he has the best hand as played with 78 suited. No way he put hero on flush. I had villain on 78 whole way. That would be played this way MINUS the shove on the river lol. He though Hero had set of 10s or 9s or 4s
It was ambitious for the caller to say "ambitious" several times.
Come on with that fold.
Hate that Bart constantly has to confirm how deep people are because people constantly misunderstand what “effective stack” means. Refreshing that this guy actually knows haha.
This is never a fold with the back doored flush. If villain happens to have flush over flushed me so be it I'm never folding the flush there
especially in a 5/5 game or whatever ya'll were playing.
Does anyone else pay attention to every hand they fold? I do but I know I’m not the only one who has folded a good hand and folds the winner. I do it a lot cause I’m playing scared money
I mean, honestly, you should probably drop down the ranks if possible if you are playing scarred money. Or just literally net peddle. You certainly shouldn't ever be as deep as this caller was if you are scarred.
I just started playing poker 3 months ago and I’ve lost about $1000. I was down $1500. I usually play the $4-$8 limit in AZ and I’m gonna switch to $8-$16 limit soon but lately if I lose a couple hundred at the small stakes I’ll go to the $2-$3 $300 limit game and I can just limp in and call whatever bet, realize my equity, and win my money back and get out of there. Well yesterday I started with $150 at the $2-$3 table and lost when the board came out QJ10 clubs and I had A clubs Q diamonds. So I bought back in for $300, which I occasionally have to do but so far I’ve won it back, and kept losing. So I’m down $800 at some point cause nothing is going my way and I’ve got $200 left so I knitted up and went to work using everything I’ve learned in the past 3 months and rallied back. That hand that would have been a straight flush happened when I had to tighten up. I think one thing that saved me was when this big dude sat at the table and was literally going all in with $300 on the flop every hand so I capitalized on that and won about $300 from him and rallied back to even and got out of there. I would have stayed but it was 7am and I had to work.
Also, I highly recommend a you tube channel called Finding Equilibrium. It’s about hand analysis
@@aceking5360 the 1/2 game is better then limit. Too many callers in limit and them knowing the max raise allows continuation on chasing draws they wouldnt in no limit where you can bet and charge them to draw. It will also tighten up your own ranges and play your position accordingly.
What Ted said. Limit holdem plays more like Gin than actual poker. People chase all the time, and equity is all sorts of messed up. Sounds like you got coolered a few times. But also make sure you have a good bankroll. 2+2 usually says having 10 max buy ins total should help with whatever level you are in. But while it's always good to learn how to be deep, if you are leaving equity because of "scarred money", then rack up and try again later.
He doesnt have the lowest possible flush, 24 is the lowest possible flush😑. Hehe dont ridicule me, it's a joke.
Love when fishes put all of their money on some super strong line on the river, and when you fold thay always and literally always said it was bluff😂😂😂😂 Not a chance, pure c/r value shove. If they take a line to bluff in those spots they lead 100% of time to represent flush ig they think you have set or 2 pairs. I call this spots just top aggro regs capable of turning some weak hands into bluff. This is fold 100/100 of the time. And to add, raise on turn is such a weak play that im speechless. Practically force weak hands to fold where you have value hand and all bluffs to fold and not bet river if you hit, and some very strong hands to continue and better draws. This guy is clueless....
Totally agree
AdT is the only reasonnable bluff candidat for vilain if he ever flats that hand
Easy fold. Never a bluff.
If you disagree please let me know which bluffs 😃
A10 with the ace of diamonds, Q10 with the queen of diamonds. K10 with king of diamonds...
If he's very competent, it's a snap call.. oop is going to have alot more flushes in his range than hero. If hero knows that villain knows this, he has to call for equilibrium, or else he can get run over.
@@hugovaz777 if he is very competent he never flats these hands from the sb pre
@@MrQwerty1310 not necessarily, maybe big blind is a fish and he wants him him the pot.. but I can see your point having validity
@@hugovaz777 yeah that could be the case
I would think he has Q9 of diamonds maybe? Or Q9/Q8?
Im trying to imagine getting the card i wanted and then deciding to fold. Raising to 450 with a small straight draw and flush. Wtf this guy has Q J, J 10 or a set. The intial raise of 70 would have ranged the caller higher. The small blind obviously knows this guy raises with draws and small cards.
You ALWAYS say you bluffed the guy. The more ridiculous the better. Case money? I like that phrase lol. This is one time I feel like the villain actually did bluff the guy. The caller has the right logic theres no way hes not leading his flush on the river.
KQ off all day everyday
You’re high.
Need lovely 😍💋 💝💖❤️