Nike’s DIRTY SECRET: Olympian Kara Goucher on Doping, Abuse & Deception | Rich Roll Podcast
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
- Rich sits down with two-time Olympian and NBC Sports track and field analyst Kara Goucher to talk about the Nike Oregon Project scandal, the mistreatment of pregnant athletes by sponsors, her identity beyond athletics, and more. To read more about Kara and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/karagoucher821a
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
This Episode Brought To You By...
SQUARESPACE
Get 10% OFF with code RichRoll 👉 bit.ly/squarespace2024
LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST
Apple Podcasts: bit.ly/rrpitunes
Spotify: bit.ly/rrpspotify
Google: bit.ly/rrpgooglepods
Meal Planner: meals.richroll.com
Voicing Change Book: richroll.com/vc
Clips Channel: / richrollpodcastclips
Newsletter: bit.ly/rollcallemail
CONNECT WITH RICH
✩ Website - richroll.com
✩ Rich Roll Podcast - richroll.com/all-episodes/
✩ Instagram - / richroll
✩ Twitter - / richroll
✩ Facebook - / richrollfans
✩ Strava - www.strava.com/athletes/14443...
✩ Memoir: Finding Ultra - www.richroll.com/shop/books/f...
✩ Meals - meals.richroll.com
✩ Cook - The Plantpower Way - www.richroll.com/shop/books/t...
✩ Italian! - The Plantpower Way: Italia - www.richroll.com/shop/books/t...
✩ Support - / richroll
FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS, DAN DRAKE & MIKE O'BRIEN
www.blakecurtis.net/
www.dandrake333.com/
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:49 The Nervousness Of Book Release
00:03:52 Taking Responsibility For Sharing The Truth
00:05:24 Encountering Nike Executives And Seeking Acknowledgment
00:07:41 The Non-Linear Trajectory Of Kara’s Career
00:10:23 Belief In Oneself And Persistence
00:14:09 Challenges Of Retirement And Rewriting The Ending
00:15:08 The Vaporfly Controversy
00:16:44 Joining The Nike Oregon Project
00:20:56 Early Signs Of Discomfort
00:22:45 Compartmentalization And Trauma
00:27:37 Adam Goucher's Departure
00:29:28 Gifts And Training
00:29:59 Sponsor Break
00:31:06 Alberto's Behavior
00:32:23 Therapist Betrayal
00:33:56 Conflict Of Interest
00:35:15 Strained Relationships
00:36:50 Weight Pressure
00:38:21 Hypothyroidism And Medication
00:41:50 Blowing The Whistle
00:46:41 Challenges Of Speaking Up
00:47:28 Facing Career Taint
00:49:15 Suspicious Training Intensity
00:50:18 Alberto's Controlling Behavior
00:50:58 Fear Of Speaking Out
00:53:04 Decision To Speak Out
00:55:24 Emotional Impact Of Speaking Out
00:57:07 Protecting Kindness Amidst Hardship
00:58:19 Running As A Love Story
00:59:22 Voicing Change Media
01:00:49 Legacy And Advocacy
01:02:20 Cleanliness In Sports
01:03:30 Perception Of Progress
01:05:31 Doping In Sports
01:09:09 Nike's Involvement
01:12:20 Elite Running Contracts
01:14:13 Pregnancy And Nike Contract
01:15:39 Legal Battle With Nike
01:19:48 Impact And Change
01:23:31 Athlete-Brand Relationship
01:24:55 Influencer Vs. High Performer
01:28:15 Nike's Influence In Sports
01:29:03 Ethical Consumerism
01:29:54 Nike's Responsibility
01:30:38 Runner's Dystonia
01:35:38 Challenges Of Runner's Dystonia
01:38:39 Transitioning From Competitive Career
01:40:33 Struggling With Identity
01:41:01 Balancing Life And Sport
01:46:07 Embracing Aging And Setting New Goals
01:47:42 The Future Of American Women Marathon Runners
01:50:35 Guidance For Athletes In Unhealthy Environments
01:54:52 Testifying To Congress
01:56:34 Credits
* * * * *
NEW TO RICH?
Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles:
bit.ly/otillonyt
bit.ly/vegansglam
I LOVE MAIL! SEND IT HERE:
2630 Conejo Spectrum St.
Thousand Oaks, CA 91320
#richroll #richrollpodcast
Thanks for watching! Don't miss out on this exclusive offer:
SQUARESPACE: Get 10% OFF with code RichRoll bit.ly/squarespace2024
Doping is systematic at Nike, Athletics West, Nike's first organised coaching program in the late 70s, was known for it. Phil Knight was aware- he started the program. Look it up, the reason no one joins up Athletic west, Nike International and Oregon project is because the testing wasn't as good back then and they are generationally not relevant anymore. Oregon Project is just the second coming of Athletics West, after the dust settled. Look up Jeff Drenth. I believe Joan Benoit and her coach were not a part of it, but I know Sev was called continuously about it by sports illustrated. I also believe Joan was the athlete that called bullshit on Kara's contract- JBS is a god. I haven't seen Bert in 15 or so years (and only met him a handful of times), but he jogs like Kara describes, like someone's grandfather not a boston marathon winner. As i look down i have a pair of Nikes on my feet, no ax to grind...there is no finish line. I will clarify one thing and my point has nothing to do with pregnancy, but your comment on 10-15 appearances in the contracts etc. Many young athletes feel like a contract is "show me the money" time (not Kara, and prob not many runners because they don't get paid gobs of money), but there is some work to go along with a sponsorship, less than one appearance a month is reasonable (as is an athlete receiving a flight and room for their mother to come along for child care). Running is a small sport, i could name basketball players that bring their entourage on trips. She really is an amazing person with a fair and balanced story. I choked up when Lynn Jennings won also
Kara Goucher is one of my favorite athletes of all time. Her pivot in life is courageous and beautiful, she’s such an inspiration and leader. So glad you two finally got to chat, thank you for this valuable conversation!
H in
Kara is definitely courageous and we thank her for coming out, but don't forget that, performance wise, she and her husband benefited greatly from Nike and Salazar.
We all know that Nike and most top athletes are doing illegal activities. It's gonna be hard to beat this corrupt system.
A month ago, I met a young athlete who had just decided to quit her team and the scholarship that came with it. We met in a cafe and our meeting turned out to be the talk that she needed. She basically changed her college running career because she felt she was not accepted by her teammates. To me, the quality of one’s life is measured by those with whom we share it.
Great interview, Kara Goucher is as courageous and honest as you could want. Yet again, the takeaway is that the fundamental problem with international athletics lies with those who own, control and run the show. We can cast Alberto Salazar, Lance Armstrong and a handful of other individuals as the villains or "bad apples", but there will always be more athletes, trainers, coaches and doctors to step in for those who are banished, so long as the business is fundamentally corrupt.
Thank you for speaking out, Kara! This was very informative.
I'm halfway through and I am touched deeply by both people's courage and compassion. True respect and admiration to Kara. You WERE the victim of a very skilled pathological predator. Love and Light 🙏
I was a college athlete and yeah this brings me back to a lot with my high school college coach. My coaches played me against my teammates. The body fat water tank testing and being told need to be like teammate who dropped lots of weight and improved drastically and sitting in cafeteria with that anorexic athlete seeing her eat a baked potato with nothing on it for dinner. Running 12 miles a day ajd eating a baked potato, I wasn't going to do it. Having coach call my parents saying I need to drop weight. When your life is running. Your teammates are your friends and it is a great life, but it is an obsessive compulsive way to live when your young. Running is everything, splits and mileage. When I left the sport I didn't wear a watch for years cause time is obsessive, always trying to cut times and run faster. I had a teamate who was successful and qualified for Olympics she was bulimic. I found a bag of vomit in her gym bag. Times have changed today I like to think with focus being quality over quanity i regards to training. You have to be a little crazy to train so hard and you can get an eating disorder. Both my coaches had inappropriate relationships with some athletes. Your coach has a lot of power over you.
I appreciate the long format and depth of conversation- thanks Rich
This was excellent. Well coordinated and soooo interesting. Thank you! Best of health to you both!
Respect for calling them out. The more people talk, the more the truth of things can't be ignored✌🧝🌱
Sadly far too many people don't even know about what Nike does. And far too many don't even care.
Thank you for the courage to come forward and speak your sincere truth.
This is such a rich conversation (no pun intended) and it resonates so deeply being that I was an elite athlete myself who experienced blurred lines and inappropriate behavior by coaches (but kept being told that it's "just the way it is"). And the conversation about this commitment to a dream, a deep belief to keep going when there are no guarantees... GOLD! Not to mention the existential crisis of transitioning into other levels of life. I've been working for over a decade now with high achievers who also struggle to navigate this dynamic of "just being and allowing for things to happen" vs what we're trained to "make things happen - when our worthiness is measured by numbers on a scale, stopwatch, scoreboard, bank account." And navigating the art & science of "being present" while "envisioning and holding that specific goal in the future" we're working towards. And I LOVE the sentiment of resetting our goals, thank you Kara for saying this out loud!
Loved this interview!! "Don't future think!" so smart . Wishing Kara all good things in life.
Time after time we hear these stories from elite athletes who are abused in their sporting field. There needs to be a better sporting governing body that allows for anonymous whistle-blowing and investigates these issues regularly!
Victim mentality. I found myself exasperated by the microsecond flip-flopping of girlboss and victim, and checked out after 30 minutes.
@@Menstralis that not just a reflection on the complexity of life.
To be torn between the good things that Nike provided in her life, or that she was able to do while in their system and the shitty things they did to her is understandable. It would be so hard to make peace with that.
It’s hard to blow the whistle when Coaches/Bosses/Organizations wield a lot of power over aspiring athlete’s livelihood (musicians, actors, employees).
@@Menstral Sounds like a you problem.
@@MenstralI think you are missing that her drive to succeed was actually a coping mechanism. One part of her life she could control and also seeking approval through it. Chaotic and abusive childhoods very often create strong, determined adults who also carry that injured child inside.
So glad you had her one your podcast - thank you, for this conversation.
Larry Nassar, Alberto Salazar, etc. We cannot let this happen again to children. And to the ones who treat victims as the problem perpetuate abuses and criminal behavior. I’m so glad all these athletes have come forward.
What a terrific podcast. That was amazingly inspirational in lots of different ways. Thank you, both.
Massive KUDOS to Kara for your courage and a big big THANK YOU for this fascinating interview. And big YES to Kara's point about influencers... 4 years ago most of the RUclips shoe reviewers , big and small, reacted to the allegations by claiming to boycott Nike, yet within a month or 2 they were ALL back reviewing Nikes again!! And as far as I've seen, none have responded to Kara's 2023 book! Quick to jump on the bandwagon initially, it seems it's all conveniently forgotten now!!
I have always admired Kara but now that I have seen this interview I have a whole new perspective. What an amazing person and so inspiring. Thank you Kara and Rich for doing this interview. I can’t wait to read the book.
Thank you for your honesty, Kara! I read your book not long after it came out. Betrayal by people you trust is devastating. Been there on a much smaller, family scale. It sucks. Thank you for speaking your truth! This shit needs to be exposed.
Finally, this interview. No swoosh for me. Ever. The book is a must read.
The Longest Race: is a must read.
100%. Not one more dime, Nike.
agree
Loved listening to Kara’s audiobook. Highly recommend
What amazing timing... I'm reading Suguru Osako's book at the moment and got curious about the Oregon Project since the only thing I've really heard about it is its downfall (and that was even before I got into running). As I looked it up, here's the episode that dropped just a moment ago. Amazing.
What a wonderful listen. Thank you, Kara
Great conversation. She was a year ahead of me in high school and I remember watching her duel with Carrie Tollefson at the Duluth swain meet in 96. It was fun watching the two of them become olympians. I was rooting for Carrie in that race because I grew up watching her every cross country and track season dominating everyone and she was from the town 20 miles west of mine so she was in our conference. That race was huge because Carrie was a senior heading to Villanova and because of that win she remained undefeated from 6th to 12th grade. It was one of the biggest meets in the state and there was a wall of people like a giant human funnel into the shoot screaming for them as they came in.
I’ve been reading this book,thank you for writing this!
Win at all costs is another great read that covers this.
I'm reading this book right now and was wishing for a Kara/Rich interview, and this popped up in my feed! ❤
Thank you for sharing your story!!!
Great interview
Been waiting on this one
I am about 20 minutes into the video and I am hooked!
Great interview, she was my idol all those years. I didn't know how much she was going through ❤
yes, strength, courage and inspiring, thank you for sharing...have always been a big fan of her (and Rich's pod cast) and now even more. Watching her through her career, never knowing what was going on behind the scenes. Yes, SafeSport is a solid resource. They have had some issues but it's a place to turn to.
I love Kara, and I believe her. And that she’s speaking out for her nieces, just the right perspective.
Kara is awesome! Thanks Rich.
Great book and interview.
Kara continues to fight the good fight. Very inspiring.
Ugh! I love this episode. but a little better timing to record after the olympic marathon trials would’ve been so amazing
Amazing Discussion. Saved!
Proud of her to speak out.
Thank you, Kara! ❤
Now I have to get the book!❤
Kara and her story is such an inspiration! Rich, Kara, Thank you for this honest and interesting podcast
Thank you!
Such an interview RRP!
You’re the best Rich!!!
No Nike for me for this an many other reasons.
Same here.
Rinny Carfare and Tim Odonnel are great examples for life after athletics
When the name of the shoe manufacturere is prominent in the name of the team - as in NIKE Oregon Project - you must realise that the aim of the whole thing is to sell product. Producing champions is a necessary by product of the process but the only thing that really matters is the profit number.
Kara Goucher was one of my earliest running influences and, as another commenter said, she is courageous and inspiring. We live in a time when so many are afraid to speak to corruption, abuse, etc, for fear of losing it all. Kara and Adam 's courage is admirable and I am hopeful it can be a model for more of us to speak up int he face of similar abuses of power. This conversation is riveting and inspiring. Thank you both - I am excited to read the book.
Rich, tell Kara to find a PRI practitioner (Postural Restoration Institute) they might be able to help her. If your left heel hitting doesn't register, your left molars don't touch and most common the left hip is contorted, it's all in the brain. There are techniques that she can be taught to help her. The headquarters are in Lincoln, NE
Who gets the ending they really want? I was talking to a family member this morning to wish him a happy birthday and mentioned how successful Steve Jobs was but no matter how much he had achieved or money he made, he still died from a form of cancer at age 56. He would have surely wanted to have rewritten that ending but this is how life is. I find this woman so wonderful to listen to and the honesty of her talk with Rich is one of the reasons I listen to his podcasts. Real people, real issues, real life. Incidently, I live in Oregon and Nike's reputation has been declining over the years. It's a place where they discriminate against woman and age discrimation is prevalent. I've heard this directly from people who work there. Use them, abuse them, discard them. That's the culture there, not everyone, of course, but still...
I often reflect on what feels like the injustice of the brevity of life and the unfairness of aging etc. But I find comfort in understanding it's not something that just happens to me.....and that NOBODY escapes these things....NOBODY gets out alive. The richest kings and queens, the most powerful politicians, the most affluent tech billionaires.....they all suffer the same fate that I will....that EVERYONE will. No amount of prestige, power, or money spares you. And so you make the life you have good. You make your piece of the world better in the small ways you can. You work on yourself, you grant grace to yourself and to others when you can.
Because there's nothing you can achieve, no height you can reach, that will exempt you. We're born, we live for a bit, then we die. EVERYONE. And all that really matters is what you do with brief interval we are given between the start and the finish.
Rich I’m blown away at the exposure your interviews are bringing to how unhealthy aspects of sport and sportsmanship have become so out of balance. It feels as if moral decline is the new normal. I have been wondering what it was going to take to start a dialogue regarding this topic. You have truly found your purpose. Keep it up. Thank you!
I read Kara's book and listened to the audio version so I couldn't wait to hear this live discussion. I have the utmost respect for Kara as a woman, mom and athlete! I have not been a Nike fan for many years given the company's history of supporting possible and confirmed dopers, as well as their treatment of Kara, Alysia, Allyson, Mary Cain and many other female athletes. So grateful and in awe of them using their powerful voices for change! Note - one other resource for athletes needing assistance is The Office of the Athlete Ombuds. I learned about them through the Anti-Doping podcast hosted by the Partnership for Clean Competition.
Loved her book. Thanks for the podcast!
Great video. Not only is Nike treating athletes this way, but what about the treatment of the people where they manufacture their product. Somehow this is lost in the convo.
Fuckin A! The sweatshops are why I have been anti Nike. Then this just takes the piss on top of it.
I stopped buying anything Nike a long time ago. It really bothers me the how much they virtue signal while doing bad things. It makes them seem so fake as a brand.
Kara, Keep going. Your vision will create more awareness and ultimately force the Nike’s of the world to change. They may never pivot for the sake of “doing the right thing’ however if enough athletes hear your story and feel empowered enough to negotiate better contract terms, I would expect things to change. Look at what Billie Jean King did for women’s tennis!
Ha ha, don't laugh at me, I took this to be my "cliff notes" version of your book, Kara. For one who hasn't had time to read the book outright. Thank you for telling it like it is and for giving sportscasting in the running world a female perspective. Dang, we have needed that for a long time. I walked right past you at the 2016 olympic marathon trials finish area and picked up on that vibe you explained to Rich Roll.
@Richroll maybe you should have Alberto Salazar on the show. As a personal friend of his I find it very hard to believe he actually did this
Rich is always so prepared … every time
Respect to Kara! I can't imagine standing up to Nike and Alberto at 29 years old.
Everytime something like this comes out, there is always a call for some oversight of some sort….ok, they will get their board members to run a commission to look into it….good luck! It’ll never get fixed until it’s all turned on its head!
she is a very inspiring person
I have met Amy and she is one of the nicest people ever. I couldn't imagine someone starting drama between her and Kara. That's nuts. People can be terrible sometimes.
How do you get the background of your studio so black like that?
Poor Adam. He will always wonder what really happened on those trips in the hotel rooms with her and Salazar!😮
Funny here in Singapore the Ads coming is Nike’s 😅😅
It may be the interview with Chip Conley that he explains how to become more prosperous as we age.
Great jacket.
listening to your intuition is 1000x better than listening to your negative inner monologue.
She’s so innocent 😊
1:37:34 get into cycling or hiking. Find a new physical outlet.
Infinite PT and altitude sound amazing
Kara is one of the best and most authentic runners and people. Rich , thank you for a wonderful and powerful interview.
The messed up part is that nothing is going to change. I mean… maybe but I doubt it. There’s thousands of stories from Olympians that have gone through wrong doing in more than one way. There is so much money in athletics’ too many people make abuse ok. Sad.
I enjoyed that. Very interesting. BTW I started selling runnng shoes in 1975. I bought 4 pairs of Reebok for £25 from their factory in Bury UK. By the early '80s alongside a teaching career I had built up a nice small specialist running business selling at races . (mail order (through magazines) and from my house. The rep from NIKE came to my house. We opened a Nike account and I began to trade for the next few decades with Nike: a significant brand when I opened The Complete Runner (UK) in 1982 as Nike were with dozens of independent running stores. Then a few years ago Nike decide they will cull trade accounts and adopt DTC (direct to customer). As in "thanks but we do not need you any more. Your business in not signifiant!" The policy means they make 2 levels of profit of course with old inventory going into their outlets ("bricks and mortar" and online) Do we miss them? Not really. There are plenty of other running brands we can trade with. Meanwhile, I wish Kara well and hope she enjoys a happy future without the stress and heartache she has had to endure.
On this path of the now we do not know what truth is. We listen try not judge and certainly move on. You hope people are sincere however we just do not know. That said always like RR and what the podcast brings to the table.
On your side Kara
What a hard spot to be in. Forced to choose between living your dream dirty, or walk away from it and be clean. Such a hard thing. However. At the end of the day, we have to make the choice…and once we do…… we are of course responsible.
❤ Kara
Bravery definitely underrated ❤️🙏🏻
Nike has become more of a fashion company than a real functional sportswear brand.
True.
Always liked Kara Groucher. Like her even more now!!!
Great interview. Thank you. Sounds like the Dystonia may have been the result of the Covid Vax. Many people experienced neurological abnormalities afterwards.
❤U KARA!!!
1:29:35 It's impossible to be an ethical consumer. None of us know where things come from, how it's produced, who if affected and what goes on behind closed doors. Sure there are certain scandals we hear about from time to time but by and large it's impossible.
Great interview...until the Lachlan Morton part. How do you not know Lachlan? He is awesome! :) Just kidding, thanks Kara for your inspiration!
This was so f-ing brave and more of #metoo - well done Kara!!!!!❤❤❤❤ ❤
I felt like crying throughout for all the suffering victims of powerful bad people that are allowed to prey on us because those in charge turn a blind eye for results 😢 #Nike has the resources and moral and ethical responsibility look after their talent , to clean house and ensure it stops. “Just f-ing do it!” for god sakes.
Sickening that watching the Olympics will now have a dark shit show behind the scenes caused in large part by greed.
When you get an Nike ad in front... 😅
i would have started from the beginning. this assumes way too much from the start IMO. slow it down and give us some background before the details.
Yeah I felt like I needed to have read her book before listening to this.
Awesome podcast 😊 can you please have Riley Gaines on OR someone to discuss this: -The LAW in California requires that men be allowed into a ladies locker room. See California Civil Code 51.
I didn't quite catch who she said would think that progress has been made...
Dis anyone catch the name?
I agree that clean athletes can and will win medals. But our sport needs to undergo a major clean-up.
Just goes to show that any (and may be all) organizations are capable of good and bad things. Is this Nike’s fault? Or the coaches fault? They provide funding and seem to truly invest in these athlete but they put a lot of trust in their “teachers“ and “staff”…they need an “athletic director “ type person.
Great discussion particularly for dads of athletic daughters.
Its all about money. Thats all. Every company cares about the money nothing else. Profit first, people second.
Under 130? How tall are you? I’m 5’3” and I weigh about 130-135. My doctor keep trying to tell me I’m overweight. Don’t feel as healthy as I did when I was laying hardwood floor and weighed 144. Especially weighing 130 in almost pure muscle as you probably would have I can’t imagine how unhealthy I would feel.
I am incredibly sorry to anyone in the world who is gaslighted and miss treated in this way. You are here and as you are for a reason. Find your reason and live that. Obviously you have. Offer everyone who is experiencing it right now… you know when you feel healthy, trust that.
I'm 5'6" and my most comfortable weight is 122. I'm female and have a lot of muscle.
She’s either 5’7 or 5’9
Weight, or lack of it, is very important in running. The best female distance runner in the world right now is 5'7" and weighs 108 lbs. It's not uncommon for a 6' male runner to weigh 130 lbs.
Imho Nike should have faced more of a public backlash/punishment for this. But sadly....as they say.....Nike is Teflon due to their expensive and slick advertising
Have never owned a pair of Nikes in childhood or as a 49 year old adult. I just never saw Nike’s real appeal.
Then you are not a runner. Nike racing shoes are the best in the industry. For a while, even athletes not sponsored by Nike were wearing them.
A multibillion dollar company without ethics, I’m floored