People seem to not be getting the stride vs cadence distinction. The distinction is what happens as you speed from easy to fast paces, not whether you have a long stride or fast cadence. Do you speed up mostly by increasing your stride length, or by a more balanced combination of increasing cadence and stride length? That is the distinction between the shoes. Not "if you have a long stride or fast cadence". If that was the distinction, then your height would dictate which shoe you get. I think stride and cadence runners each thinks their way is the default because the other way seems so weird but ASICS has interesting data. There are some people whose cadence barely changes as they speed up. They may take 185 strides per minute at both 7:30 pace and 5:00 pace. The Sky is made for them. But others do a combination where cadence increases are a considerable input to changing speed. I am 6'4" and in my 50s, so much slower than when I was younger. But when I was a 15:00 5k runner in my 20s/30s, I took 160 spm at 7:20 pace or so and 185+ spm at race paces. Now my easy day cadence might be 155 spm and hard stuff 175-180. My stride length changes, but not nearly as much as my cadence. The Edge would be for someone like me. ASICS research found two distinct clusters and not many people in between - I ran across their scatterplot graph in some review once but I can't find it to link it now. I am a really pronounced heel striker and I have really low cadences compared to most people at 7:00 pace relative to others, so I have wondered if cadence runners are also more likely to be overstriders and one could do just as well recommending the shoes based on being a heel vs mid/forefoot striker. I tend to not like the plated shoes others call snappy and like the roll to be further back and more gradual. I don't like the Vaporfly, but really like the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 2. The Metaspeed Edge or Cielo X1 are going to be my next shoe.
how much changing in pace does one do in a marathon as a percentage of the entire race? Ideally it would be 0 but realistically, it would be still be very low like less than 1%. So why would a shoe design for marathon be based on if you change your cadence much between certain paces? You will have a goal pace that you stick to throughout the entire race and also a specific cadence that your body has deemed to be most efficient in respect to that and it does not change either. Data shows that for elite athletes, the typical cadence at marathon pace is ~180. Now asics does not say what the cadence runner that would prefer the edge's marathon cadence is nor for the sky. So at the end of the day, you have two different shoes that some will prefer one over the other and we are given insufficient information to choose which without actually testing it ourselves or shown some data based on a sufficient sample size. There is also no telling that if we are given cadence values for these shoes that one would definitely chose one over that other. Speed = stride x cadence. Goal is to increase speed without decrease in efficiency. So if you are a "strider" and your stride length is maxed out so to speak, maybe a shoe that helps you increase your cadence will give you the most gains/advantage. However, maybe the stride shoe will enhance your strength (stride length) more than the gains you can achieve by increasing your weak point of cadence...... So that are two ways to look at it. Need real world testing to know and might be very different to different individuals. Asics provide none.
To me, the shorter the distance, the more unwieldy the Aphafly becomes. V3 is the most usable version of the Alphafly at 5K, in my opinion, but I’d still take the ASICS.
Great explanation on the power you need to engage with the shoe. Less powerful slower runner so less energy created means Edge because of the location of the plate. This explains why the Sky Plus gives me foot fatigue in long runs and Edge plus does not
"Add speed with cadence increases" vs "Add speed with stride length increases" is the distinction. Not "high cadence runners". Its what is your cadence at say 7:20 pace vs what is your cadence at say 4:50 pace. Strange as it seems to me, that number is almost the same for some people. And for others (like me) it is 30 spm different.
What shoe do you have ? The sky Paris or edge Paris ? I can only buy online and I'm torn between getting a 10 or 10.5 in the Paris ...I'm currently a size 10.5 in many shoes but a size 10 in the superblast as the toebox is so huge in that shoe@@mpellenberger
What's considered high cadence? No one ever defines high cadence. I know my cadence but I don't know if it's considered high or low. My last marathon I was at 188 and the one before that, 190, and 185 on the one before that. The fastest cadence was my fastest marathon, and so on.
I currently use brooks Hyperion max as my 5k to 10k races and tempo workouts. I want to go back to plated shoe I'm considering (endorphin pro 4, Vaporfly next % 3, and meta speed Paris) I just don't know what will be better the sky or edge. I don't have a running store that has one to try out.
I had an issue with heel slippage in the edge + , I managed to fix it with different insoles and a stick on pad in the heel counter. Is the fit the same for the Paris version?
I have the Metaspeed Edge plus and Sky plus. First I loved the Sky Plus and did not find the Edge plus propulsive enough. However Sky Plus did give me bad foot fatigue a day after a long run. Now I run in the Edge Plus and love them. I think the flat plate in the Edge Plus is the problem. Have the same foot Fatigue also in the Alphafly V1. I think the Edge Plus Plus ❤ will be amazing.
I have no ide why Asics refuses to add a number to this version. The series' naming so far is pretty stupid.
Cadence and stride are just a marketing ploy. Very smart though 😂😂😂😂😂😂
yeah but so confusing that it might turn people towards other brands
People seem to not be getting the stride vs cadence distinction. The distinction is what happens as you speed from easy to fast paces, not whether you have a long stride or fast cadence. Do you speed up mostly by increasing your stride length, or by a more balanced combination of increasing cadence and stride length? That is the distinction between the shoes. Not "if you have a long stride or fast cadence". If that was the distinction, then your height would dictate which shoe you get. I think stride and cadence runners each thinks their way is the default because the other way seems so weird but ASICS has interesting data. There are some people whose cadence barely changes as they speed up. They may take 185 strides per minute at both 7:30 pace and 5:00 pace. The Sky is made for them. But others do a combination where cadence increases are a considerable input to changing speed. I am 6'4" and in my 50s, so much slower than when I was younger. But when I was a 15:00 5k runner in my 20s/30s, I took 160 spm at 7:20 pace or so and 185+ spm at race paces. Now my easy day cadence might be 155 spm and hard stuff 175-180. My stride length changes, but not nearly as much as my cadence. The Edge would be for someone like me. ASICS research found two distinct clusters and not many people in between - I ran across their scatterplot graph in some review once but I can't find it to link it now. I am a really pronounced heel striker and I have really low cadences compared to most people at 7:00 pace relative to others, so I have wondered if cadence runners are also more likely to be overstriders and one could do just as well recommending the shoes based on being a heel vs mid/forefoot striker. I tend to not like the plated shoes others call snappy and like the roll to be further back and more gradual. I don't like the Vaporfly, but really like the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 2. The Metaspeed Edge or Cielo X1 are going to be my next shoe.
how much changing in pace does one do in a marathon as a percentage of the entire race? Ideally it would be 0 but realistically, it would be still be very low like less than 1%. So why would a shoe design for marathon be based on if you change your cadence much between certain paces? You will have a goal pace that you stick to throughout the entire race and also a specific cadence that your body has deemed to be most efficient in respect to that and it does not change either.
Data shows that for elite athletes, the typical cadence at marathon pace is ~180. Now asics does not say what the cadence runner that would prefer the edge's marathon cadence is nor for the sky. So at the end of the day, you have two different shoes that some will prefer one over the other and we are given insufficient information to choose which without actually testing it ourselves or shown some data based on a sufficient sample size.
There is also no telling that if we are given cadence values for these shoes that one would definitely chose one over that other. Speed = stride x cadence. Goal is to increase speed without decrease in efficiency. So if you are a "strider" and your stride length is maxed out so to speak, maybe a shoe that helps you increase your cadence will give you the most gains/advantage. However, maybe the stride shoe will enhance your strength (stride length) more than the gains you can achieve by increasing your weak point of cadence...... So that are two ways to look at it. Need real world testing to know and might be very different to different individuals. Asics provide none.
I just took it as one of for bouncing up (striding), one is for shifting forward (cadence)
significant difference and increased on the midsole..
looks more bulky..
What shoe is better for a 5km ,the alphafly 3 o metaspeed edge 3?
METASPEED EDGE PLUS.
To me, the shorter the distance, the more unwieldy the Aphafly becomes. V3 is the most usable version of the Alphafly at 5K, in my opinion, but I’d still take the ASICS.
Great explanation on the power you need to engage with the shoe. Less powerful slower runner so less energy created means Edge because of the location of the plate. This explains why the Sky Plus gives me foot fatigue in long runs and Edge plus does not
Agreed, this is the first time I’ve heard it explained in such away and it’s the first time it’s actually made sense to me.
I had the same experience with sky+.
So EDGE better for slower runners?
@@JordanMVP10 if you are a forefoot striker go with the Sky.
@@i.p2088 Wonderful explanation, thank you!
Hope they use some of this new softer foam in the superblast. But maybe only half as we don’t want the superblast to be too squishy
Me too!!
"Add speed with cadence increases" vs "Add speed with stride length increases" is the distinction. Not "high cadence runners". Its what is your cadence at say 7:20 pace vs what is your cadence at say 4:50 pace. Strange as it seems to me, that number is almost the same for some people. And for others (like me) it is 30 spm different.
How is the fit? Are they narrow in the toebox?
Not narrow, but I found my pair to run slightly short. I’d size up if you’re in-between.
What shoe do you have ? The sky Paris or edge Paris ? I can only buy online and I'm torn between getting a 10 or 10.5 in the Paris ...I'm currently a size 10.5 in many shoes but a size 10 in the superblast as the toebox is so huge in that shoe@@mpellenberger
Good morning. Like from Spain 🇪🇸. A nice day for everyone.
What's considered high cadence? No one ever defines high cadence. I know my cadence but I don't know if it's considered high or low. My last marathon I was at 188 and the one before that, 190, and 185 on the one before that. The fastest cadence was my fastest marathon, and so on.
Do you think outsole will hold up if I use it as a trainer? Cost is not a factor.
Yes, the outsole tends to be deceptively durable, in my opinion.
(Edited for a typo!)
I currently use brooks Hyperion max as my 5k to 10k races and tempo workouts. I want to go back to plated shoe I'm considering (endorphin pro 4, Vaporfly next % 3, and meta speed Paris) I just don't know what will be better the sky or edge. I don't have a running store that has one to try out.
I had an issue with heel slippage in the edge + , I managed to fix it with different insoles and a stick on pad in the heel counter. Is the fit the same for the Paris version?
I did not have any heel slippage issues in either shoe! Really snug, secure fit.
@@mpellenberger thanks, are you talking about edge+/sky+ or edge+/edge Paris?
No heel slippage in the Paris versions.@@yousefosman9051
I have the Metaspeed Edge plus and Sky plus. First I loved the Sky Plus and did not find the Edge plus propulsive enough. However Sky Plus did give me bad foot fatigue a day after a long run. Now I run in the Edge Plus and love them. I think the flat plate in the Edge Plus is the problem. Have the same foot Fatigue also in the Alphafly V1. I think the Edge Plus Plus ❤ will be amazing.