That era was a frustrating time when AMD didn't produce any competitive CPUs, and Intel was just releasing very tiny performance (IPC) increments year after year for several generations. I had a Sandy Bridge CPU for a good 10 years, and there was just no reason to upgrade. So glad that AMD came back with the Ryzen series and kick the competition back into gear.
That period was really bad for laptops, there were better cpus coming out for them but it seemed like the value for your money just kept going down. I seen no reason to replace my c2d laptop for a long time, as to actually get something that wasn't just marginally faster was expensive
Watching this on my i7-3770 lol. Its my daily driver at home despite having various 10th and newer i7s and several ryzens. Just never got around to upgrading this great little machine.
@@gradystephenson3346 I have both a 4770k and a 6700k. The 4770k is a better over clocker, most of the time, than the Devil's Canyon part. Intel stretched the limits with Devil's Canyon. I will say though that the non k 4790 is a great chip and also a great starting point for someone that's never gamed on a PC and wants to give it a shot on the cheap. It also compares well to the i7 6700 non k. If you were using the same GPU on both systems you would not see a huge frame spike. More of a mild one. Few frames per game or so. In the meantime the gap between Haswell and Skylake isn't massively significant. If I had had that 4770k BEFORE my 6700k, I would not have been so fast to grab the 6700k. They aren't worlds apart. They are increments apart. The same way Intel did everything until Kaby Lake. A huge jump was from my FX 8350 to my 7700. That was a huge jump. So was the jump from the 3770 I had at the time. The 3770 was a side-grade to get more frames from my GTX 1080. Sure, it made that FX 8350 look like the processor of the year to anyone watching me play a 4K game but that was the GPU doing the heavy lifting. I kept that GTX 1080 all the way to my 6700K so I have both benchmark scores and the games I played on the different processors with the same GPU, which was the best GPU when I bought it and was 2nd best when the 1080 TI came out. It did move the bottleneck to the processors for sure at 1080p. As a for instance, the i5 3570 with a GTX 1050 2GB had VERY similar frametimes and rates as the 7700 non k. So much so that any of my step children that I sat in front of it couldn't tell the difference on a 60Hz monitor. No, none of the Intel chips from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Bridge had much uplift generation to generation, that didn't happen until 2017 with Coffee Lake. Then again with Alder Lake and again with Raptor Lake. The way the new chips look? There will be a regression or standstill of single core that will not be addressed until the next node shrink, which, thank the powers that be and Pat Gelsinger, will be next year. Seeing chips smaller than 2nm will be amazing.
@@gradystephenson3346 I have one of those on an ASUS Z97-K board. Need a replacement CPU cooler though, the Intel one broke when I removed it to re-do the thermal paste.
Good video. I still have a Dell i7 4790 full size tower. I use a 13700k pc for my office pc but the i7 4790 would be perfectly usable as an office pc, my only concern would be if it could use 32gb ram. I bet a LOT of people are still using Haswell based pc's.
i don't know about the specific oem board you have but on my retail asus z97 board i run 32gb of ram, it has 4 slots and each stick is 8gb, the base speed is 1333mhz but i can overclock the ram to 2666 mhz and the oc ram is stable, i tested it with memetest86 😎👍
@@jims_junk I'd say so - the way you did it in this vid actually works pretty well, because it shows how it would likely be handled if someone was just playing the game normally.
@@MrSamadolfo beaming is actually a game. Or physics simulator. It did have a benchmark scenario that a user made but after some updates it no longer works. Keeping my fingers crossed that he updates it so that it'll work again.
I've a feeling the gap between the two would be even narrower if Meltdown/Specter vulnerability patch was disabled. It really hammers down Sandy/Ivy Bridge CPUs, more so than Haswell.
I finally upgraded away from my i7-3770... Now im on a i9-12900k and the gap between them are HUGE! I'll still keep my old Dell PC with the i7-3770 on the side to mess around with for older games.
@@MrSamadolfo I got mine in a ebay bundle with 32GB of DDR5 ram at 6400mhz and Z690 Aorus Ultra for 575 USD lol. So pretty much killed 3 birds with one stone.
@@Killersnake432 cool, have u updated the bios recently, cause all the motherboard manufactureres are pushing out a new bios to set the cpu voltage settings lower to match intel specs, due to instability crashing and corrupt windows
@@MrSamadolfo thats only the problem if you had i9 13gen, i7 and i9 14gen anything bellow that didnt have thos problems and as such dont need the update
Bro, I'm still rocking a 4790k. It's been great! I bought it just to be able to play ps2 games with pcsx2. But in comparison on daily usage to my older C2Q 9550, there's almost no difference. At least not noticeable. Ofc, on heavy workloads, the 4790k is much faster, but browsing the web isn't a heavy work load. Maybe on windows I would have notice something? Since right now, Windows 10 is very sluggish on my beloved 4790k. Not on Linux thou :D
@@MrSamadolfo easy, get to the official pcsx2 webpage, and there you find lots of videos. Otherwise, just search on yt pcsx2 and the CPU of your choosing to see how it performs. I could play pcsx2 on my C2Q, but not Gran Turismo 4 at 1080p. Other more simple games would run just fine, and some other would need speed hacks, like God of War 2. IIRC, I was able to play MGS3 at 1080p on that C2Q. Right now, it's even possible to play pcsx2 on a Steam Deck, so modern hardware has no problem with that emu. And there is an Android ps2 emulator, I don't remember the name, but it's also going strong!
Yup I remember Haswell being a pretty decent improvement over Ivy Bridge in some applications(10-20% faster), while a tiny one in others(4-7%). I think they improved the FPU and decoders mostly and widened some of the execution units.
But if already had the older 67 motherboard then you had to upgrade the motherboard just to get PCI-E 3.0 and in the end it didn't matter much, since GPUs back in the day were all X16 and not even close to being powerful enough to benefit from PCI-E 3.0 x16
My 4770k is probably my favorite cpu out of all the cpus I have had and I started way back on the AMD K6-2. It was just a great all arounder for its day and it held up well for years.
😒👍 most video games are still optimized for only the first 8 threads of any processor, the rest of the processors are used for other stuff like running the online multiplayer stuff, background tasks, streaming, encoding, decoding, etc
@@MrSamadolfo ofcourse I would wathc a youtube video background while I am playing a game or streaming. pc is a multi task machine not a game machine if only thing I want was playing games I would buy a game console not a pc therefore more cores equals more happines
Haswell basically just added some instruction sets, at the time not much software sued them because they where new, so yeah, at the time the upgrade was not woth as in real use cases it made almost no difference. Those isntruction sets got standarized some years after, so the gap increased over time.
First time seeing your videos and they're pretty entertaining, just one bit of criticism. The GTA IV testing. GTA IV is so unpredictable. I think that you should use the Vulkan mod whenever you test, as the performance is a lot more predictable and frame time graphs are more stable and not... all over the place. a little tidbit, I like that you test beamng drive! (and GTA V, that's a pretty intensive game on the older CPUs) Edit: I would love to see an iGPU comparison
🙂 GTA 4 is trash and hot garbage, its a waste of time to use it for any serious benchmarking. On the other hand GTA 5 is God's Gift to the masses and plebs and serfs of the world, This one game can pretty much run on anything and its heavy enough to do serious benchmarking, its a 60GB Download, everybody should have it on a jump drive. Go get it now. 😒👍
hey thanks! Yeah GTA IV is all over the place, I agree the engine was a pos. But I dunno, I guess I include it just to see how different cpu's handle it. As far as the igpu, definitely. I'm actually working on it now
Looking at the FX8320 stats comparison made me laugh. I had a FX8320 and that thing was a joke. I built my daughter a Pentium Dual Core Haswell system on the cheap and that thing ran circles around that “8” core AMD. That experience made me swear to never buy another AMD, I don’t care what people say. The FX chip killed any faith I had in AMD and I’m still waiting on that class action lawsuit check. TLDR that red bar is way too high.
@@mrni6502I was buying a new laptop and told the guy “I really like Asus. I’ve been using their boards for over 20 years” he shows me the Asus’ and they are all AMD, i said nope how about MSI? I’ve got a coffee lake i5 in my desktop pc. It’s pretty good. Not winning any races but she can hustle
🙂 some other content creator benchtested it and unfortunately it stutters in some modern games especially if it online multiplayer, theres something weird about how the cores and threads are layed out, if your playing GTA5 offline it runs just fine tho, if u pickup the system for free then i would keep it just for testing and nostalgia. Checkout first generation Ryzen, its old and kinda meh but it runs pretty close to Fourth Gen Intel so its not that bad if you can pick it up for cheap. Also I like the amd wraith prism argb coolers its looks neat.
I'm assuming you meant the Pentium G3258? That Pentium you had was actually considerably slower than the FX8320. The FX8320 is around a 2nd Gen i5 in terms of performance, still not great, but far from being slower than a dual core that lacks hyper threading. It's kinda funny how AMD has changed things around though. Currently they have the fastest CPU on the market, and Intel can't even match it even while consuming a higher wattage/TDP.
Good comparison as usual Jim! I think after Haswell was when Intel started to stagnate as performance increments started getting less than 10%. Do you think you'll be able to compare Core2 9000 against Phenom ll anytime soon? I would love to see that.
Honestly, the gap was bigger than I expected. This explains why it feels pretty sluggish when downgrading from Haswell Xeon (4770 equivalent) to an i7 2600 because I wanted an iGPU.
This was peak Intel imo. After Haswell, Intel basically only made incremental performance improvement and from Skylake, they are struggling to fight against Ryzen
Well after Haswell you only have Broadwell and Skylake before Ryzen. And Skylake, Kabylake, Coffee lake and Comet lake(6th to 10th gen) were literally all Skylake on a slightly improved 14nm process node for each, and with more cores and higher clock speeds. On top of that Broadwell didn't really get a release on PC.
the incremental upgrades started with sandy bridge, a 10% difference isnt big for a new generation i7 2600k was the last big update, after that 5 - 10% improvement each gen
@@300maze Even sandy bridge wasn't a big upgrade, it was a 30% increase in clock speeds, but it was mainly due to the new process node, while the IPC was 7-10% increase. AVX 256 was the only place Sandy Bridge had 20% higher IPC. 25-30% increase in clock speeds between some generations is mostly due to nodes. 14nm for example allowed them to push from 3.5-4.0 up to 5.0Ghz.
😒 Skylake 6th gen introduced DDR4 and 8th introduced Coffeelake i7 8700K with 6cores and 12threads, the 8700K is comparable to a modern Ryzen 3600, they both support Windows 11 out of the box
The 3770K was end of the line for that generation, the next went on upto the 4790K. The difference in the generation was not only the small ipc gains but also where the limit was that you could get. I own a 3770 non K and a 4790K both on Asrock boards Z77 and Z97 and both with 32Gb of memory. I did buy both when they where new, and can say that the 4790K outlived the 3770 by far because of the also higher single core performance.
😏 broh, you bought it new? The Devil's Canyon was pretty pricey even in the used market for a long time, I think i payed too much for my used Devil Canyon cpu mb ram combo, i payed 350, it came with Dominator 2666mhz 32gb of system ram. Kinda pricey but thank God its all still working, i just load tested it and cpu and ram and video card are nice and stable, Windows 11 PRO works too
@@MrSamadolfo yeah both in first months they where available. The 3770 has been running as my server/hypervisor 24/7 until 20-2-2024 so got my money out of that one. The 4790K has been running until the same end date as gaming rig. But Some new games demand more to fully load a 3060 12gb to the max. Both are now replaced with AMD CPU, the server with a 7700 non X and the gaming rig with a 7600X. I put most money in memory again because it is key for a long life of a CPU motherboard memory combo. So the gaming rig got 64 and the server got 192 this time.
@@chinesepopsongs00 🙂 neat, im actually rebuilding my Devils Canyon rite now, I went to Microcenter and they sometimes carry used refurbished classic cards, coincidentally they had a single Red Devil 5700 XT video card on the shelf, so I nabbed it up for 170, i'm going to put it with the Devil Canyon, its kinda funny both products are Devilish and Demonic, i wonder if anyone has done that before? heehee 🔥😈🔥🤔😊
@@chinesepopsongs00 🙂 i tried both my 3050 and 3060 with my Devil Canyon and the 3050 is definitely too slow even for the i7 so I don't see there being a better choice than the 3060 for it, yes I do notice that it doesn't get to 99% gpu usage but the alternative a 3050 is too slow. I settled for the 5700 XT to keep it with the 4790K, the 57XT is a little faster than the 3060 but it wont matter with my slow i7, but the 57XT is cheaper and the red devil three fan card is asthetically alot cooler so 5700XT FTW 😏👍🔥😈🔥
🙂 First Gen Ryzen is similar to Fourth Gen Intel so kinda meh, if you like Ryzen i would recommend looking at second generation at minimum. The first gen chips are still ok for a second pc or backup pc tho. Samething with Intel fourth generation.
@MrSamadolfo yes I did use the first Gen Ryzen, the 1600 was already a good step up from the Sandy Bridge 2600K and the x58 X5670 rigs I was using before. Now using 7th Gen 7500F.
🙂 i think they are very similar if ur not overclocking, if ur overclocking then it could be complicated because it might depend on how nice of a motherboard you get and if you know how to set up the bios and all that kind of stuff. I have a 4790K and a Z97 board but I dont do any overclocking on it, i retired it, i mostly keep it around now for nostlagia and testing
Back in the day, if you were already running a Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge machine, it wasn't worth hopping over to Haswell for the marginal bump in performance. That was the era where Intel would only support a certain socket/chipset for a couple of years to get folks to buy new motherboards with every other generation released. Then there was the fiasco with Intel all but skipping Broadwell in the retail parts market, so the socket 1150 mobos only realistically had Haswell chips available when they were the contemporary platform. I only upgraded to Haswell back in 2018, when the mobo VRMs in my 3770k machine decided to short out and fry my CPU. That's when I bought a used Asus Sabertooth Z87 with a 4770k for a very reasonable price, and that was my main PC up until 2020 when I upgraded to a Ryzen machine. So very grateful that AMD finally could compete again in the late 2010s. Gave Intel the competition they desperately needed.
Oddly enough that's the only reason I just upgraded a pc to Haswell. My workbench PC has been using an ivy bridge 3770 for years...did what I needed it to do at my workbench. But the board died and since I just tested the haswell cpu...figured why fix it, I'll just upgrade it with a new motherboard and the 4770. Ya know, the thing runs the same as the Ivy Bridge. If someone had swapped it without telling me, I wouldn't know.
@@jims_junk Pretty much! If all you're doing is basic stuff like web browsing at your bench, they're gonna perform about the same. Both have SATA 3 speed controllers, both use DDR3 RAM... Only difference is I/O performance, going from PCIe 2 to 3.
I'd love to one day get my hands on a pentium 3 board. I tossed all of mine years ago, big mistake. One in particular was a dual slot 1. It had two 500mhz p3's and that thing ate first and second gen pentium 4's alive.
all intel i7 series had almost same capabilities before amd shown up with ryzen after that intel started to adding new extra cores to their cpus i7 950 and 7700 has the same amount of cores with 4 cores and 8 threads however things got started to change with i7 8700 it has 6 cores and 12 threads.
You only talked about the absolute difference in performance between the two, but you need the relative difference to really compare them properly. That works about to about 12%, and they have the exact same clock speed, so that's a 12% IPC improvement, which isn't bad considering Raptor Lake's IPC is only 5% or so higher than that of Alder Lake, for example.
@@Ciffer-1998 No you are confusing intel's low-end quad cores with a proper meaty, wide-core quad core. Skylake quad cores were low-end, weak, small core chips.
wow, a few years ago that was the test that I wanted to see, after coming back into pc stuff in 2021, I was really divided by both of these, luckily I got both for veeeery cheap and stuck with the 4790 for my earlier gaming pc and the 3770 for my office pc since then I only upgraded to a 10th gen cause I needed a more recent platform and got the cheapest CPU cause in theory it would be a bit better then what was already suiting pretty well nowadays I may regret it cause I get the feeling the i3 10105F might be bottlenecking a lot my rtx 2060
u got a Z490 motherboard? 10th gen ur stuck on pcie3, update the bios and throw in an i3 or i5 or i7 11th gen chip to get pcie 4.0, with 4.0 you can upgrade your SSD to a 4.0 SSD and video cards with 4.0 will get a tiny boost as well, its weird how Intel has that divider between 10th gen and 11th gen, you would think the divide would be between 11 and 12 but thats not how it was done, its strange
i7 3770 here, non k with overclock 4.1 ghz all cores (multiplier), do you have CPU-Z benchmark? so we can compare how far can go the my CPU vs the 4770, CPU-Z is free and lighweight
really? how can we compare? I have the 3770 paired with the 1660 Ti, playing BF V single player had solid 60 fps, but in the online the fps drops are insane :D due to CPU bottleneck
@@DualPerformance online games really like to see more than 8 threads, the first 8 is for the local pc, then thread number 9 and beyond for online plus streaming plus decoding encoding etc 😄
Haven't actually played NFS:MW but it seems very odd for a game THAT old to ever hammer 8 threads. Original requirements are Windows 2000 and P4 1.4ghz haha
The big draw, beside the mediocre speed and cache reworks, there isn't much difference save one that makes the Haswell the baseline for modern computing. AVX2. It does full AVX2 at 3.5Ghz. The Ivy Bridge part does not. The 4770k is also a better over clocker than the 3770k in most cases on a board with good VRMs. And that is why you would rather have a Haswell processor over a similarly specced Ivy Bridge.
10% difference is pretty incremental sandy bridge was the last big core update, after that haswell and skylake were 10% improvements. and it took intel 10 years to make a new core for desktop that was significantly better (golden cove)
all intel i7 series had almost same capabilities before amd shown up with ryzen after that intel started to adding new extra cores to their cpus i7 950 and 7700 has the same amount of cores with 4 cores and 8 threads however things got started to change with i7 8700 it has 6 cores and 12 threads.
That era was a frustrating time when AMD didn't produce any competitive CPUs, and Intel was just releasing very tiny performance (IPC) increments year after year for several generations. I had a Sandy Bridge CPU for a good 10 years, and there was just no reason to upgrade. So glad that AMD came back with the Ryzen series and kick the competition back into gear.
Couldn't agree more
That period was really bad for laptops, there were better cpus coming out for them but it seemed like the value for your money just kept going down. I seen no reason to replace my c2d laptop for a long time, as to actually get something that wasn't just marginally faster was expensive
to prevent a fine for monopoly in the cpu market intel provided little performance upgrades since amd couldnt compete a lot like now
so pretty much the same as amd is doing now. 10 - 15% ipc increase with 10-15% higher price.
😊 they milked it for every drop and every thread count LOL
Watching this on my i7-3770 lol. Its my daily driver at home despite having various 10th and newer i7s and several ryzens. Just never got around to upgrading this great little machine.
😒👍 Keep It Old School
If you ever get an i7-6700k, compare it with the i7-4790k if you ever get around to get one if you havent already
sure will
A i7 4790 non k is no slouch I'd like to see one vs a 6700 i7
@@gradystephenson3346 I have both a 4770k and a 6700k. The 4770k is a better over clocker, most of the time, than the Devil's Canyon part. Intel stretched the limits with Devil's Canyon. I will say though that the non k 4790 is a great chip and also a great starting point for someone that's never gamed on a PC and wants to give it a shot on the cheap. It also compares well to the i7 6700 non k. If you were using the same GPU on both systems you would not see a huge frame spike. More of a mild one. Few frames per game or so. In the meantime the gap between Haswell and Skylake isn't massively significant. If I had had that 4770k BEFORE my 6700k, I would not have been so fast to grab the 6700k. They aren't worlds apart. They are increments apart. The same way Intel did everything until Kaby Lake. A huge jump was from my FX 8350 to my 7700. That was a huge jump. So was the jump from the 3770 I had at the time. The 3770 was a side-grade to get more frames from my GTX 1080. Sure, it made that FX 8350 look like the processor of the year to anyone watching me play a 4K game but that was the GPU doing the heavy lifting. I kept that GTX 1080 all the way to my 6700K so I have both benchmark scores and the games I played on the different processors with the same GPU, which was the best GPU when I bought it and was 2nd best when the 1080 TI came out. It did move the bottleneck to the processors for sure at 1080p. As a for instance, the i5 3570 with a GTX 1050 2GB had VERY similar frametimes and rates as the 7700 non k. So much so that any of my step children that I sat in front of it couldn't tell the difference on a 60Hz monitor. No, none of the Intel chips from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Bridge had much uplift generation to generation, that didn't happen until 2017 with Coffee Lake. Then again with Alder Lake and again with Raptor Lake. The way the new chips look? There will be a regression or standstill of single core that will not be addressed until the next node shrink, which, thank the powers that be and Pat Gelsinger, will be next year. Seeing chips smaller than 2nm will be amazing.
@@gradystephenson3346 I have one of those on an ASUS Z97-K board. Need a replacement CPU cooler though, the Intel one broke when I removed it to re-do the thermal paste.
🙂 they are very close assuming the ram sticks are clocked the same
Good video. I still have a Dell i7 4790 full size tower. I use a 13700k pc for my office pc but the i7 4790 would be perfectly usable as an office pc, my only concern would be if it could use 32gb ram. I bet a LOT of people are still using Haswell based pc's.
i don't know about the specific oem board you have but on my retail asus z97 board i run 32gb of ram, it has 4 slots and each stick is 8gb, the base speed is 1333mhz but i can overclock the ram to 2666 mhz and the oc ram is stable, i tested it with memetest86 😎👍
I'm absolutely loving the addition of the BeamNG bench - it will show a lot more about a PC's CPU limitations since it's so physics based
Thanks! Is it ok as it sits? Not sure if/when the scenerio will be updated
@@jims_junk I'd say so - the way you did it in this vid actually works pretty well, because it shows how it would likely be handled if someone was just playing the game normally.
I never heard of that benchmark, i'll check it out thanks 🙂
@@MrSamadolfo beaming is actually a game. Or physics simulator. It did have a benchmark scenario that a user made but after some updates it no longer works. Keeping my fingers crossed that he updates it so that it'll work again.
@@jims_junk 😊 oh ok, thanks for the explanation
The avx2 instructions now shows some different these days
I've a feeling the gap between the two would be even narrower if Meltdown/Specter vulnerability patch was disabled.
It really hammers down Sandy/Ivy Bridge CPUs, more so than Haswell.
Does the patch to patch it out still work? I tried it using Windows 11 and you can't disable it. Maybe it works under 7 or 10 still but I don't know?
@@MrSamadolfo Try Inspectre. Works fine on Windows 10.
I see no reason why it wouldn't work on 11.
I finally upgraded away from my i7-3770... Now im on a i9-12900k and the gap between them are HUGE! I'll still keep my old Dell PC with the i7-3770 on the side to mess around with for older games.
ur i9 is availalbe at microcenter in a bundle for 400 bucks 😊
@@MrSamadolfo I got mine in a ebay bundle with 32GB of DDR5 ram at 6400mhz and Z690 Aorus Ultra for 575 USD lol. So pretty much killed 3 birds with one stone.
@@Killersnake432 cool, have u updated the bios recently, cause all the motherboard manufactureres are pushing out a new bios to set the cpu voltage settings lower to match intel specs, due to instability crashing and corrupt windows
@@MrSamadolfo thats only the problem if you had i9 13gen, i7 and i9 14gen anything bellow that didnt have thos problems and as such dont need the update
Bro, I'm still rocking a 4790k. It's been great! I bought it just to be able to play ps2 games with pcsx2.
But in comparison on daily usage to my older C2Q 9550, there's almost no difference. At least not noticeable.
Ofc, on heavy workloads, the 4790k is much faster, but browsing the web isn't a heavy work load.
Maybe on windows I would have notice something? Since right now, Windows 10 is very sluggish on my beloved 4790k. Not on Linux thou :D
😏 nice, ive been meaning to research PS2 emulation, could you recommend me what videos to look at right now in April 2024? thanks
@@MrSamadolfo easy, get to the official pcsx2 webpage, and there you find lots of videos. Otherwise, just search on yt pcsx2 and the CPU of your choosing to see how it performs.
I could play pcsx2 on my C2Q, but not Gran Turismo 4 at 1080p. Other more simple games would run just fine, and some other would need speed hacks, like God of War 2. IIRC, I was able to play MGS3 at 1080p on that C2Q.
Right now, it's even possible to play pcsx2 on a Steam Deck, so modern hardware has no problem with that emu.
And there is an Android ps2 emulator, I don't remember the name, but it's also going strong!
Yup I remember Haswell being a pretty decent improvement over Ivy Bridge in some applications(10-20% faster), while a tiny one in others(4-7%). I think they improved the FPU and decoders mostly and widened some of the execution units.
>6:16
i7-3770 can use also PCIe 3.0 with the 7 series chipset (for example z77).
But if already had the older 67 motherboard then you had to upgrade the motherboard just to get PCI-E 3.0 and in the end it didn't matter much, since GPUs back in the day were all X16 and not even close to being powerful enough to benefit from PCI-E 3.0 x16
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neat, i didnt know that, thx
My 4770k is probably my favorite cpu out of all the cpus I have had and I started way back on the AMD K6-2. It was just a great all arounder for its day and it held up well for years.
It's so crazy how i7 CPUs were 4 core/8 thread for so many years.
😒👍 most video games are still optimized for only the first 8 threads of any processor, the rest of the processors are used for other stuff like running the online multiplayer stuff, background tasks, streaming, encoding, decoding, etc
If you include every game ever made you're correct, but newer games will happily use way more than 8 threads.
@@MrSamadolfo ofcourse I would wathc a youtube video background while I am playing a game or streaming. pc is a multi task machine not a game machine if only thing I want was playing games I would buy a game console not a pc therefore more cores equals more happines
@@borakaraca9788 😒👍 All you need is a Pentium broh and Live Life in the Fast Lane 😉😊🐢
One reason to go with the 3rd Gen is it's Windows XP compatibility. It's really great for some older games.
😒👍 Keep It Old School
Haswell basically just added some instruction sets, at the time not much software sued them because they where new, so yeah, at the time the upgrade was not woth as in real use cases it made almost no difference. Those isntruction sets got standarized some years after, so the gap increased over time.
First time seeing your videos and they're pretty entertaining, just one bit of criticism. The GTA IV testing. GTA IV is so unpredictable. I think that you should use the Vulkan mod whenever you test, as the performance is a lot more predictable and frame time graphs are more stable and not... all over the place. a little tidbit, I like that you test beamng drive! (and GTA V, that's a pretty intensive game on the older CPUs)
Edit: I would love to see an iGPU comparison
🙂 GTA 4 is trash and hot garbage, its a waste of time to use it for any serious benchmarking. On the other hand GTA 5 is God's Gift to the masses and plebs and serfs of the world, This one game can pretty much run on anything and its heavy enough to do serious benchmarking, its a 60GB Download, everybody should have it on a jump drive. Go get it now. 😒👍
hey thanks! Yeah GTA IV is all over the place, I agree the engine was a pos. But I dunno, I guess I include it just to see how different cpu's handle it. As far as the igpu, definitely. I'm actually working on it now
Looking at the FX8320 stats comparison made me laugh. I had a FX8320 and that thing was a joke. I built my daughter a Pentium Dual Core Haswell system on the cheap and that thing ran circles around that “8” core AMD. That experience made me swear to never buy another AMD, I don’t care what people say. The FX chip killed any faith I had in AMD and I’m still waiting on that class action lawsuit check. TLDR that red bar is way too high.
AMD Ryzen these days are pretty good. I haven't had any issues with it
@@mrni6502I was buying a new laptop and told the guy “I really like Asus. I’ve been using their boards for over 20 years” he shows me the Asus’ and they are all AMD, i said nope how about MSI?
I’ve got a coffee lake i5 in my desktop pc. It’s pretty good. Not winning any races but she can hustle
🙂 some other content creator benchtested it and unfortunately it stutters in some modern games especially if it online multiplayer, theres something weird about how the cores and threads are layed out, if your playing GTA5 offline it runs just fine tho, if u pickup the system for free then i would keep it just for testing and nostalgia. Checkout first generation Ryzen, its old and kinda meh but it runs pretty close to Fourth Gen Intel so its not that bad if you can pick it up for cheap. Also I like the amd wraith prism argb coolers its looks neat.
I'm assuming you meant the Pentium G3258? That Pentium you had was actually considerably slower than the FX8320.
The FX8320 is around a 2nd Gen i5 in terms of performance, still not great, but far from being slower than a dual core that lacks hyper threading.
It's kinda funny how AMD has changed things around though. Currently they have the fastest CPU on the market, and Intel can't even match it even while consuming a higher wattage/TDP.
Ah my old 3770 I ripped out of an old Dell machine. Used that thing for years until it just couldn't quite cut it anymore.
Good comparison as usual Jim! I think after Haswell was when Intel started to stagnate as performance increments started getting less than 10%. Do you think you'll be able to compare Core2 9000 against Phenom ll anytime soon? I would love to see that.
Thanks. I'll see what I can do. I do have both but if I'm gonna compare I'd want them to have similar specs.
😒👍 agree, good classics to checkout, best to test with some nice fancy motherboards of course
Honestly, the gap was bigger than I expected. This explains why it feels pretty sluggish when downgrading from Haswell Xeon (4770 equivalent) to an i7 2600 because I wanted an iGPU.
i'm going to pair a 3770 with a gtx 980 this weekend and see how well it performs :)
This was peak Intel imo. After Haswell, Intel basically only made incremental performance improvement and from Skylake, they are struggling to fight against Ryzen
Well after Haswell you only have Broadwell and Skylake before Ryzen. And Skylake, Kabylake, Coffee lake and Comet lake(6th to 10th gen) were literally all Skylake on a slightly improved 14nm process node for each, and with more cores and higher clock speeds.
On top of that Broadwell didn't really get a release on PC.
the incremental upgrades started with sandy bridge, a 10% difference isnt big for a new generation
i7 2600k was the last big update, after that 5 - 10% improvement each gen
@@300maze Even sandy bridge wasn't a big upgrade, it was a 30% increase in clock speeds, but it was mainly due to the new process node, while the IPC was 7-10% increase. AVX 256 was the only place Sandy Bridge had 20% higher IPC.
25-30% increase in clock speeds between some generations is mostly due to nodes. 14nm for example allowed them to push from 3.5-4.0 up to 5.0Ghz.
😒 Skylake 6th gen introduced DDR4 and 8th introduced Coffeelake i7 8700K with 6cores and 12threads, the 8700K is comparable to a modern Ryzen 3600, they both support Windows 11 out of the box
@@MrSamadolfo 5th gen introduced DDR4
And yes the 8700k is on par with the 3600
watching this video on my i7 3770 with r5 200 series, i love my i7 3770 lol
The 3770K was end of the line for that generation, the next went on upto the 4790K. The difference in the generation was not only the small ipc gains but also where the limit was that you could get. I own a 3770 non K and a 4790K both on Asrock boards Z77 and Z97 and both with 32Gb of memory. I did buy both when they where new, and can say that the 4790K outlived the 3770 by far because of the also higher single core performance.
😃 yay i have a Devil's Canyon too! Its on a Z97 Asus Deluxe 🔥😈🔥
😏 broh, you bought it new? The Devil's Canyon was pretty pricey even in the used market for a long time, I think i payed too much for my used Devil Canyon cpu mb ram combo, i payed 350, it came with Dominator 2666mhz 32gb of system ram. Kinda pricey but thank God its all still working, i just load tested it and cpu and ram and video card are nice and stable, Windows 11 PRO works too
@@MrSamadolfo yeah both in first months they where available. The 3770 has been running as my server/hypervisor 24/7 until 20-2-2024 so got my money out of that one. The 4790K has been running until the same end date as gaming rig. But Some new games demand more to fully load a 3060 12gb to the max. Both are now replaced with AMD CPU, the server with a 7700 non X and the gaming rig with a 7600X. I put most money in memory again because it is key for a long life of a CPU motherboard memory combo. So the gaming rig got 64 and the server got 192 this time.
@@chinesepopsongs00 🙂 neat, im actually rebuilding my Devils Canyon rite now, I went to Microcenter and they sometimes carry used refurbished classic cards, coincidentally they had a single Red Devil 5700 XT video card on the shelf, so I nabbed it up for 170, i'm going to put it with the Devil Canyon, its kinda funny both products are Devilish and Demonic, i wonder if anyone has done that before? heehee 🔥😈🔥🤔😊
@@chinesepopsongs00 🙂 i tried both my 3050 and 3060 with my Devil Canyon and the 3050 is definitely too slow even for the i7 so I don't see there being a better choice than the 3060 for it, yes I do notice that it doesn't get to 99% gpu usage but the alternative a 3050 is too slow. I settled for the 5700 XT to keep it with the 4790K, the 57XT is a little faster than the 3060 but it wont matter with my slow i7, but the 57XT is cheaper and the red devil three fan card is asthetically alot cooler so 5700XT FTW 😏👍🔥😈🔥
This was when Intel was really on top. All this prior to Ryzen which then I felt became way better and more efficient processors until now.
🙂 First Gen Ryzen is similar to Fourth Gen Intel so kinda meh, if you like Ryzen i would recommend looking at second generation at minimum. The first gen chips are still ok for a second pc or backup pc tho. Samething with Intel fourth generation.
@MrSamadolfo yes I did use the first Gen Ryzen, the 1600 was already a good step up from the Sandy Bridge 2600K and the x58 X5670 rigs I was using before. Now using 7th Gen 7500F.
@@MrSamadolfo nah 3rd at minimum 2nd were barelly better then intels 4th
🙂 i think they are very similar if ur not overclocking, if ur overclocking then it could be complicated because it might depend on how nice of a motherboard you get and if you know how to set up the bios and all that kind of stuff. I have a 4790K and a Z97 board but I dont do any overclocking on it, i retired it, i mostly keep it around now for nostlagia and testing
Try trying to use AVX2 on 2nd/3rd gen, it either gonna fail (assuming it's AVX2 dependent code) or fall back to AVX or older SSE.
Back in the day, if you were already running a Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge machine, it wasn't worth hopping over to Haswell for the marginal bump in performance. That was the era where Intel would only support a certain socket/chipset for a couple of years to get folks to buy new motherboards with every other generation released. Then there was the fiasco with Intel all but skipping Broadwell in the retail parts market, so the socket 1150 mobos only realistically had Haswell chips available when they were the contemporary platform.
I only upgraded to Haswell back in 2018, when the mobo VRMs in my 3770k machine decided to short out and fry my CPU. That's when I bought a used Asus Sabertooth Z87 with a 4770k for a very reasonable price, and that was my main PC up until 2020 when I upgraded to a Ryzen machine. So very grateful that AMD finally could compete again in the late 2010s. Gave Intel the competition they desperately needed.
Oddly enough that's the only reason I just upgraded a pc to Haswell. My workbench PC has been using an ivy bridge 3770 for years...did what I needed it to do at my workbench. But the board died and since I just tested the haswell cpu...figured why fix it, I'll just upgrade it with a new motherboard and the 4770. Ya know, the thing runs the same as the Ivy Bridge. If someone had swapped it without telling me, I wouldn't know.
@@jims_junk Pretty much! If all you're doing is basic stuff like web browsing at your bench, they're gonna perform about the same. Both have SATA 3 speed controllers, both use DDR3 RAM... Only difference is I/O performance, going from PCIe 2 to 3.
but did all thos old i7s struggle doing anything up untill 2017-2018, they didnt so if ryzen didnt came out we would be stuck not needing to upgrade
Upgrading just a single generation has almost never been worth it.
I have both a 3770k system and a 4790 system. Gotta catch 'em all. :)
😒👍 i have every intel generation, starting with my Core2Quad
I'd love to one day get my hands on a pentium 3 board. I tossed all of mine years ago, big mistake. One in particular was a dual slot 1. It had two 500mhz p3's and that thing ate first and second gen pentium 4's alive.
all intel i7 series had almost same capabilities before amd shown up with ryzen after that intel started to adding new extra cores to their cpus i7 950 and 7700 has the same amount of cores with 4 cores and 8 threads however things got started to change with i7 8700 it has 6 cores and 12 threads.
You only talked about the absolute difference in performance between the two, but you need the relative difference to really compare them properly. That works about to about 12%, and they have the exact same clock speed, so that's a 12% IPC improvement, which isn't bad considering Raptor Lake's IPC is only 5% or so higher than that of Alder Lake, for example.
but does that even matter if the actuall peformance dosnt improve as much
had the 3570k and 4690k up untill 2019, the 4690k was JUST enough to make certain games not stutter with them both overclocked(tho still low fps)
yeah, I think stock is never worth it with such old cpus, overclock would widen the gap if the stars are right
it was abou the time my old i5 6600k lasted as well and it was really struggling with games of 2019 so i had to upgrade
I went from the Ivy Bridge 3570K to a Ryzen 5 3600 as up until that point, the 3570K was still doing more than ok.
Quad cores were all good until 2020-2021.
@@rattlehead999 thos without hyperthreading died out much sooner like around 2016-2017 they were strugling with like mid end gpus 1060/1070
@@Ciffer-1998 No you are confusing intel's low-end quad cores with a proper meaty, wide-core quad core.
Skylake quad cores were low-end, weak, small core chips.
this is just a difference between having an overclock and don't, the banter is legal, 10% is not worth an upgrade.
wow, a few years ago that was the test that I wanted to see, after coming back into pc stuff in 2021, I was really divided by both of these, luckily I got both for veeeery cheap and stuck with the 4790 for my earlier gaming pc and the 3770 for my office pc
since then I only upgraded to a 10th gen cause I needed a more recent platform and got the cheapest CPU cause in theory it would be a bit better then what was already suiting pretty well
nowadays I may regret it cause I get the feeling the i3 10105F might be bottlenecking a lot my rtx 2060
😒👍 pu a cheap 600 motherboard and a cheap 12100F or cheapest i5F, wait for a deep sale or open box or clearance steal
u got a Z490 motherboard? 10th gen ur stuck on pcie3, update the bios and throw in an i3 or i5 or i7 11th gen chip to get pcie 4.0, with 4.0 you can upgrade your SSD to a 4.0 SSD and video cards with 4.0 will get a tiny boost as well, its weird how Intel has that divider between 10th gen and 11th gen, you would think the divide would be between 11 and 12 but thats not how it was done, its strange
nah that i3 is basically i7 7700 which has no problem handling gtx 1080 which is same as rtx 2060
I have an idea, maybe you should do desktop CPUs vs mobile chips and see how they perform
Ya know that's a good idea. I was actually thinking the other night how I could do that. Thanks !
i7 3770 here, non k with overclock 4.1 ghz all cores (multiplier), do you have CPU-Z benchmark? so we can compare how far can go the my CPU vs the 4770, CPU-Z is free and lighweight
BTW, you forgot to mention the very important AVX2 insturction set, night and day diference in some games like Battlefield 5 etc.
really? how can we compare? I have the 3770 paired with the 1660 Ti, playing BF V single player had solid 60 fps, but in the online the fps drops are insane :D due to CPU bottleneck
@@DualPerformance online games really like to see more than 8 threads, the first 8 is for the local pc, then thread number 9 and beyond for online plus streaming plus decoding encoding etc 😄
Haven't actually played NFS:MW but it seems very odd for a game THAT old to ever hammer 8 threads. Original requirements are Windows 2000 and P4 1.4ghz haha
Completely agree. Just odd how it does on one CPU and not the other.
The big draw, beside the mediocre speed and cache reworks, there isn't much difference save one that makes the Haswell the baseline for modern computing. AVX2. It does full AVX2 at 3.5Ghz. The Ivy Bridge part does not. The 4770k is also a better over clocker than the 3770k in most cases on a board with good VRMs. And that is why you would rather have a Haswell processor over a similarly specced Ivy Bridge.
avx is confusing, theres at least three any nobody can make up their mind which ones to use, and its causing games to break, not cool 😒
10% difference is pretty incremental
sandy bridge was the last big core update, after that haswell and skylake were 10% improvements.
and it took intel 10 years to make a new core for desktop that was significantly better (golden cove)
all intel i7 series had almost same capabilities before amd shown up with ryzen after that intel started to adding new extra cores to their cpus i7 950 and 7700 has the same amount of cores with 4 cores and 8 threads however things got started to change with i7 8700 it has 6 cores and 12 threads.
I am currently running a 4770k
still using 3770 right now with rx6600
My z68 mobo has a pcie3.0 as well
...finally