Perfect Patina with Pam East: Liver of Sulfur Tips and Tricks
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Learn how to get a perfect patina in this 25 minute video from Pam East. She'll show you all the tips and tricks! Pam also covers the topic of sealants on silver.
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Crazy awesome video! I’ve been waiting for one like this a long time. Thank you!
That was great Pam! Thank you so much for all your hard work.
Thanks Pam! I haven't been a big fan of patinas, now I want to give your method a try!
Great video. Thanks for the all the info. I wish more sellers were as responsible as you are in letting customers know that patina does change over time. I appreciate all the work you do and the fact that you share the results of your experiments.
Thank you Pam. Wonderful information!
Wow, the comparison of the sealers is really well-done. Thank you for the great information.
Glad it was helpful!
So glad you enjoyed it!
So far this the best patina demonstration I have seen and trust me I have watched a lot. Thank you.
I'm so glad this was helpful!
Pam, what a well presented and thorough demonstration! You covered it all, debunked lots of assumptions and myths. Great pacing also. Thank You.
Thank you Alan! Glad you liked it! Please feel free to share it with MAGG.
Thanks very much, learned loads from your video very helpful.
Heck Yeah, It took me a while to get what colors I was looking for and I am using 360 Brass so I let it sit hours.
Love that you get in to the science of it all too!
THAT was useful - thank you SO much for putting your video out there for the rest of us...!
So glad I could help!
This is so exciting and it makes me want to try a bunch of different techniques! Thank you!
You are so welcome!
Really clear, and comprehensive. Thank you very much can’t wait to try a new patina.
Glad it was helpful!
Pam, this was just terrific! Thanks so much for sharing your tips for achieving and controlling colorful LOS patinas as well as the results of your sealer tests. (It would have been a miracle if there had been a product that preserved the colors since, as you said, it’s a light issue and not a chemical issue.) Love your generosity, my friend! ❤️
Thank you Margaret! I had fun with this one. I've been dying to share the magnetic tumbler info for a while now.
I must say this video was highly informative. Thanks Pam.
Glad it was helpful!
This is so cool!!
Fantastic video. Thank you!!!
Glad you liked it!
You made a fantastic video, Pam! There is so much hard work behind this video and so much knowledge. Appreciate the safety tips too, very responsible. The patina comparisons were invaluable. I'm very impressed with the work behind this video, and this has taught me a lot. I always felt a piece had to be coated, but now see that its unnecessary and wrong. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge. Deeply appreciated!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks Pam. That was very educational.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The best patina video that I've seen, Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Great video - thanks!
You're welcome!
Fantastic video. I’m researching patinas and how to go about it before I take the plunge. This has really helped, especially the sealing topic. Thank you.
So glad I could help!
Great video thanks! Just a tip, the matte effect of a magnetic tumbler is due to the large number of pins inside. If you remove some of them, the effect is astounding. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the info!
Thank you‼️Wonderful video
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
I know this video was 3 years ago. I was thinking about going back to Precious metal clay and am so excited to find you!! I now need to find red and blueish patinas for copper, as in a heating process. Thanks so much, and I will be watching more of your videos!!😅
Glad it was helpful!
This is a great video. I'm a novice at this and am about to start my first project. I'm starting off with the ready mixed blue green patina. I had no idea you can achieve different colours using liver of sulphur patina. I shall have to add it to my shopping list! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
great video! Thanks for sharing! It is soo appreciated. : )
You are so welcome!
Thank you Pam for sharing all your work. You are an awesome instructor, very detailed with beautiful result. I am buying the Ultralite that you used for firing. I would like to see some of your videos on metal clay jewelry design and techniques.
Elizabeth, did you see the "Enameling in the Ultralite" video that just went live? ruclips.net/video/yCRGvuqGau0/видео.html
@@PamEast Yes I did, they were beutiful. Thank you.
Thank you so much!!!
You're welcome!
wow just wow, amazing tutorial. I have learnt so much thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Absolutely!! What Pam has taught, anyone else would gouge us, particularly at a show!
@@PamEast I love the cover piece to this video! How to you keep the patina from that sinewy thread? Do you mask it or only clean off that portion with skillful use of sandpaper.? If masking, what do you use?
@@benecharisma6650 No masking. I carefully polish it off after applying the patina. Sometimes I wrap a polish cloth around my finger tip or a pencil tip to gently polish it. I've also used silicon polishing tips on my flex shaft.
Very awesome information....k
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you so much for sharing these wonderful tips. I am just starting out with metal clay and can't wait to try the LOS that I bought and not worry about how to use it properly. Sounds like a real hassle if you take it too far and want to start again.
I just bought some 1st time 35yrs jeweler never used the XL gel ! Thank you ! I patina the old school way acid water solution etc.
Glad this was helpful!
बहुत बढ़िया 👌👌👍
Brilliant
Thank you!
Thank you for the Tips is Fan.
Our pleasure!
Thanks so much for sharing your techniques Pam. I love the look of this style of patina. I am just starting out with it, but was having very inconsistent results. I am hoping this information will resolve my problems achieving the color I wanted each time. It seemed like my solution would turn cloudy rather quickly at times too. I was keeping it on a mug warmer, but wasn't bumping it. I had tried both lump and stabilized POS. Is there anything that causes the solution to degrade more rapidly (besides cross-contamination with the neutralizing solution)?
Ok, this is a very weird little quirk, but sometimes plastics can make it go wonky. Use a glass cup and a glass rod for stirring if at all possible. Make sure everything is clean and free from contaminants. Good luck!
Hi! What a great video thank you for your time. Is there a way to patina certain areas (with tape or do you have any suggestions) ? Thank you!
My work is sculptural enough that masks tend to be a pain. What I do is patina the whole thing and then clean it off selectively. I use very fine tip silicone polishers with a rotary tool (flex shaft, dremel, nail drill) to clean carefully. You can find these polishers here: www.riogrande.com/product/EVESiliconePolishersKitCoarse/3326171
Hello Pam. I've been adhering to many of the suggestions you made in your PERFECT PATINA video (which was excellent!), and I'm getting much better patina results on a more consistent basis. However I am noticing that sometimes the patina coloring seems a little dull. And I'm wondering if there is some machine or product that could buff up (lightly polish) the color without removing the patina?
Thank you.
I want to thank you for this tremendously informative video. I made my first attempt today and can't believe the colors I got, blues, purples, and two of the pieces are a beautiful rich bronze. I used hot tap water and put my little bowl on a cup warmer to keep it warm, and I wonder if the color is partly due to the temperature? I was hoping to get the bronze tone on my first pieces but they jumped quickly to blue & purple. It wasn't till the 4th and 5th pieces that I saw the bronze and yanked them out immediately! Maybe the solution was warmer by then? Or maybe the solution was getting weaker by then (they're just small pieces, 1"-ish)? I'm so glad I watched your video otherwise I never would have thought of the warmer, and the 3 drops of gel was the perfect amount, with the salt and ammonia, to give me some level of control.
Temperature definitely plays a role in patina! It's a range. Too cool and nothing happens, too hot and it all goes too fast! But now that you're getting success it will get easier for you to judge.
Pam, thanks for a great video. Where do we buy the Gosiba by Fischer in a bottle has only has a few ounces?
I've only ever seen the big bottle of Gosiba. No small bottles available. Sorry! I get it from allcraftusa.com
When experimenting with flame patina on copper, I found that painting a watercolor fixative (resin based)on first with a brush, then adding Rio's clear acrylic coating preserved the colors nicely.
Yes, flame patina on copper reacts a lot differently to sealants than chemical patina on silver. If you want rich color on silver and the ability to seal in it, alcohol inks are a good choice. :)
Do you know how i can give an iron oxide look to sterling silver? Btw awesome job !! IT is very very helpful
Thanks! I'm glad you liked the video! Iron oxide... like a reddish brown color with a rough texture? hmmm... Not sure how to do that! Sorry!
Excellent information, especially about sealing!!! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great info. Sad to hear that the blues and purples won't make it thru the sealant. Do you tumble your pieces after you patina them?
Hi Kim, No, I don't tumbler after patina. I've found other ways to polish the silver, but that's a subject for another video.
This works beautifully, thank you!
One drop of LOS with hot water and I get gold colors in seconds. The problem is the gold colors on a ring last for 24hours at best and I have to re-do them every other morning.
Is there any way to make them stick for longer on a ring?
Is lacquer coating a good option for rings or will it just drive more complexity to what will ultimately still be a daily routine?
Rings are tricky because they rub between your fingers. As long as you want gold or bronze colors, and not blues or purples, you can use a finish lacquer. I like Midas Brand. www.riogrande.com/product/midas-finish-seal-lacquer/335123GP/?code=335123 This should be fine over gold color but it will wreck purple or blue.
This was super helpful thank you! I was wondering: is there a way that you can put this kind of patina on only a certain section of the piece? As in: only change the color of a small section. I know with black patina you can brush/paint that on to be more precise, but what about liver of sulfur? There are some designs I have in mind that would require a majority of the piece to remain silver.
I've only had mixed success with that technique with LOS. the problem is usually the liquid cools too fast on a brush to be effective. Try warming the piece first. Maybe on mug warmer
Pam, thank you for explaining the reason behind blue patina not showing under varnish..❤ ! In my own experience, I've done polymer clay jewelry, and sealed them with different varnishes, for different effects.. and sadly after several years, I've noticed many of my pieces turning yellow! It's the yellow base color of the varnishes that shows up..
And the color yellow is the opposite color of purple on the color wheel, and will automatically automatically cancel out purple color on the light spectrum! Same for orange canceling out blue..... Ah! It all makes sense now...😅❤ Thank you Pam!❤
I'm glad I was helpful!
Have you tried Alclad II Klear Kote? I haven’t tried it on patina but use it for other things and keeps things pretty true.
While I have not tried that particular coating, the problem would be exactly the same as the dozen others I tried. It's not a matter of chemistry but of physics. A coating disrupts how light is refracted off the surface of the piece. Any coating at all is going to change the appearance of the blues and purples that are dependent on how light refracts off of them.
can you send a link to the steel and brash plastic-handled brushes? When I go to allcraftusa it's hard to tell what to buy.
I just looked and I can't find the link either! Recommend just calling them.
Awesome video. I used LOS years ago but never got those colors, or bumped up the solution. Your pieces are not all universal color. Please do a video on how you made a sun yellow gold, but other areas are blue or purple. Are you masking off areas then separately dipping the other areas??? Please do a video on selective patinas. Thanks!!❤
Patina is an adventure. You need to be open to the experience. I don't do "selective patina" nor do I know any way to do that. When you dip, part of the piece goes in first, and when you take it back out that peice comes out last. as a result, the bottom tends to go darker than the top. You can have *some* control by what direction you dip it, but overall you just have to accept what you get.
New subscriber 😊
Welcome! Many more videos coming soon!
Hi Pam, i plan to make earrings with star and moon , i would like to achie blue colour but i would like my moon and stars just sparkly silver , can you advise me whats the best way to achine this please thank you so much!
Get your blue color, and then polish off the areas you want to be silver. I recommend using a rotary tool like a dremel or flex shaft and silicone polishing tips.
Hi Pam exhalant video. May be you could offer a 'Patina service' to revitalise old jewellery? Regards . . . Andy
I don't offer any repair or patina services. I hope my videos are helpful for people to be able to do their own! i'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Thanks Pam for the tutorial! I learned soooo much! A couple of questions: (1) Can this be done with German (nickel) silver? and (2) When I tumbled my pieces in a rotary tumbler with shot, it removed all the texture I had in the piece :( -- what size shot are you using?
Hi Karen, I have never tried to Patina German Silver so I'm not sure if it would work or not. LOS is pretty inexpensive. Why not give it a try and let us know? That sounds odd that the tumbler removed your texture. I'd need more information. I put .999 silver, which is pretty soft metal, into both my rotary tumbler (usually for about 4 hours) and my magnetic tumbler (for about 20 minutes) all the time and I never lose the texture. I use mixed stainless steel shot intended for jewelry use in my rotary tumbler. Check Rio Grande for that. In my magnetic tumbler I use 3mm pin polishers. I get those on Amazon.
Thank you Pam, an awesome teaching video, I learn so much from you....Sadly the postage to the UK is more than the product, is there an alternative anyone can think of.
Which product? The patina gel or the magnetic tumbler?
@@PamEast sorry I was lax in replying to you, so rude of me. I eventually got the magnetic tumbler and the LOS gel, you are so right it works beautifully.
@@jackiedavies3751 I'm so glad it worked out for you!!!
Hi, can you tell me if this technique would work to make a very even patina in a large brass plate in a door ? I want to obtain a slightly darker tone on it. A darker gold similar to bronze. Thank you.
Not so much. It's a very fluid technique and unless you are going for dark gray or black you're unlikely to get an even result.
Hi Pam I have never heard of Gosiba patina and can't find much info about how to use it or how it looks on sterling silver. Could you make a video on this product? Thank you!
I'm unlikely to do another video on Patina. It should work fine on sterling. You can get it here: www.allcraftkeumboo.com/product-page/gosiba-1-2l
What do you use to mask off the other part of the metal you do not wanted painted?
I don't mask anything. Instead I patina the whole thing, and then polish off the areas I want silver.
Hello Pam,
I just found your channel, and your videos are very informativ and excellent. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
With the patina I have a question...If the patina is over the time gone, how to refresh it? Have I to pickle the piece an put new patina? Or what to do if there is a seawater pearl in the piece? I would like to know what I can say to the customer.
Have a good time
Greetings from Germany
Maren
So glad you are enjoying my channel! What I tell my customers is that Patina is a living thing. It will darken and evolve over time. Any attempts to "seal" it will ruin it. It will stay better in protected spaces, such as the inside of a box or in inset areas. Pieces like my leaf on the thumbnail for this video, while great for showing color, will not last as well as inset patina. To refresh a patina it is generally necessary to completely remove the previous patina. With a purely silver piece this is easy. You just fire it again and re-tumble it. The pearl presents more of a problem. There is an electro-chemical method using a small battery for removing patina that should not harm your pearl at all. It's trickier, but it does work. Here is a link to that video. The section I want you to watch begins at minute 5:23. ruclips.net/video/MVnz5usVAB4/видео.html
@@PamEast Hello Pam,
thank you very much for your very soon answer. It helped me a lot. I'll givet them a try.
Greetings from Germany
Maren
Would barrel polishing followed by brushing to a satin finish work? I can’t afford another tumbler atm.
It works, but less consistently.
what's brand two of the black patina bottle?
The black patina is Black Max by Midas. it was just repackages into a dark bottle.
www.riogrande.com/product/midas-black-max-oxidizer-solutions/331053GP/?code=331053
the XL Gel is Midas Liver of Sulfur Gel.
www.riogrande.com/product/midas-liver-of-sulfur-xl-gel/331033GP/?code=331033
How much Rio Grande Super sunshine do you use?
Just a few drops! It doesn't take much. I literally put my sunsheen in a dropper bottle and add a few drops at a time.
Clear Paste wax is what I use over patina of all types.
I like renaissance wax which is probably what you're talking about. It works great on black or dark patinas. But it will still kill purples and blues.
Thank you for the great video. It's really inspiring. But I have one question. How do salt and ammonia work in the agent chemically? If you want to slow down the reaction, just cooling the agent is enough in my opinion. There must be a reason we need salt and ammonia. What is that?
In my experience the ammonia enhances blue tones and salt enhances purple tones. Over all, the colors become more intense with the addition of those chemicals.
will it also work on nickels coins? I engrave coins and need information about that
I have never tried LOS on nickle. If you try it let me know how it goes!
Hi Pam, I've got to do two 12"x60" copper sheets. Long back story. I know you're doing silver but might not the result be the same with copper? It's too huge to do the specialized prep; hoping to avoid sanding as well. I love the purple and blue and am wondering how to achieve that effect. I have nothing glass do you think it would be okay to make the liver of sulfur, then the rest of the patina mix in a crock pot? Since I can't dip could I put the patina in a plastic spray bottle or could I need to paint it on with a brush? It took two minutes to change color so I'm afraid one end will be done before I even get to the other end... I'm open to any and all suggestions you might be willing to give to help with this project.
I get very different results on copper than I do with silver. Honestly? If you want those brilliant colors on copper go for torch patina instead of chemical. A quick youtube search of "torch patina copper" will get you a ton of instructional videos.
@@PamEast Thanks for your help! I ended up using chemicals so my colors came out mostly turquoise. It looks like they were meant to look that way rather than just the happy accident they actually are. I love your clean purples so much better, but hey, it gives me something to hope and work toward somewhere down the line. Thanks again!
@2:20 can you think of a situation where transferring brass from the brush to the silver could be used to produce a desirable effect?
Theoretically you could give the work a goldish cast, but this method is unreliable as an effect. Mostly you can't see it and it ends up just messing with your patinas or enamels.
Is there anyway to find a jeweler that can do this?
I have no idea. I've never tried outsourcing it. Sorry!
Thanks for your class. I think the most informative was to magnetic tumble, to not use a varnish or protective coating. I can imagine the frustration of using a rock tumbler, and applying a varnish, all those great colors and chemistry down the drain. And great patinas, well that would require a bit of investment.
Glad it was helpful!
How many pieces can you patina with the one mixture of liver of sulfur you've shown? I am assuming you would know when you start to see less of a change or longer between colors as you dip? But it's something I wish you mentioned in the video. How much mileage will those few drops last you? Great info, regardless!
LOTS! The mixture tends to cool off and stop working due to temperature more than the solution wearing out, and it doesn't re-heat well. Try setting your cup of LOS on a mug warmer to keep it going longer. I've gotten a dozen pair of earrings out of one batch.
How is the silver blacking Gosibia spelled?
It's Gosiba. www.allcraftkeumboo.com/product-page/gosiba-1-2l
Does this work on aluminum?
I have honestly never tried it on aluminum. If you give it a try let me know how it goes!
Brown patima on silver
Patina on silver point
Can you clarify your question? Are you trying to get brown patina? or are you getting brown when you want something else?
@@PamEast I’m trying to get brown patina on silver point art
Can you add patina to copper?
Yes, but you won't get colors like these. For brilliant copper patinas check out this video ruclips.net/video/0_2HJFlKFuc/видео.html
On copper?
No, my work is all on fine silver.
You're right that it's physics that affects the coatings' ability to preserve the patina, but I don't think your reason is correct. The colours are not true colours, but like the iridescent colours of some butterflies, and the rainbow effect on a CD, it's due to the particle sizes of the oxides creating a diffraction grating. The problem is that the colour they are tuned to is highly dependent on the speed of light in the medium in front of it, i.e. it depends on the refractive index. Unless a coating has a refractive index of 1.0003 (the same as air), or very close to it, the wavelength it's tuned to will be very different. There are no coatings which come close to the refractive index of air. Researchers have created a dielectric coating which comes close, but that's never going to be practical for jewellery.
It's possible that you could create an oxide that is the right size, so that although it doesn't look blue when it's not coated, it does look blue once it has been coated. It may be that somewhere in the black oxides is one which would appear blue when coated. You may try to keep dipping until the last of the blue has gone, and you're left with what looks black. After coating, you may discover that colours appear.
Another option is to try some of the nano coatings used to protect car paintwork. These create a very thin film which, when applied on top of the oxide layer may cause its own diffraction patterns. That is, the coating may behave like an oil film, and the oxide particles control the thickness of the film, which changes the colour it is tuned to.
Very interesting! I was just introduced to the concept of nano ceramic coatings this past weekend. A fellow jeweler is using it on silver and her results are hard, permanent and STUNNING. I really need to learn more about that.
I was thinking the colour you wanted to say was urine :/ . And yes it was like medium concentrated urine :)
LOLOLOLOL!
The brilliant colors don’t stay long, right?
There is no denying the patina is going to change and evolve over time. How long that takes depends on a number of factors. the more protected the area is the longer it will last. I've had color down inside boxes last for years. Surface color is going to change and evolve more quickly.
@@PamEast Since the patina is uncoated, any time you touch it with your hands, your hands have natural body oils, it is going to affect the patina!!! BTW, have you ever done pickling before burnishing with a brass brush with soapy water and then doing the patina???
what's the concentration of ammonia?
household ammonia in the USA is about 7%
@@PamEast thank you
I think if you want to keep the colour of the patina that you like you can use epoxy spray gun.
Any clear substance that is applied over the patina is going to affect the refractive properties. The piece will be "protected" but all that will show through is golds and bronze. The blue and purple will be lost.
You said you were using a neutralizing bath of baking soda and water. That would be a base solution. Liver of sulfur, ammonia, and salt are all also basic. You cannot neutralize a base with a base.
I have a feeling that the problem of sealing the patina changing the color does not have to do with light wavelengths. If it did then you would not be able to photograph the patina or see it while wearing glasses. I think that the problem is either chemical or heat based. During the phase change from liquid to solid a certain amount of energy is released as heat so it is possible the heat in the reaction is affecting the patina, the other possibility is that there is a chemical reaction. Most likely there is an acid in the sealer that is breaking down the oxide coating.
You are 100% correct about LOS being a base and not requiring neutralization. This is something I learned AFTER I produced this video. But since tossing it in baking soda doesn't actually harm it, I decided not to redo the whole video. I disagree about loss of color being chemically based as I tested a huge variety. Refraction happens at the surface of the piece, bouncing the light differently if a piece is coated vs uncoated. But it can easily be seen through glasses or photographic lenses that are a distance away. Refraction is visually observable. Either way though, the result is the same. Coating these iridescent colors destroys them. In the end, the cause is of less concern than the effect. Thank you so much for watching my video and reaching out to me!
@@PamEast I think it might be possible to create an impression of a patinad piece, use the impression as a mold and use something like epoxy to make a lense that you could put on the face of the piece and then 'glue' around the edges of the piece. That would give you protection from environmental elements that would damage patina but would allow the light through. This would be difficult with pieces with a lot of dynamic shape but would probably work on flat or lightly domed works pretty easily.
@@cdsentone3832 thats an interesting idea! I make a lot of shadow boxes. I wonder how hard it would be to add a “window” to the front. Hmmm.. I’ll have to give it some thought