Matthew Johns urged to name players in the group sex scandal
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2009
- MATTHEW Johns says he wants to put the group sex scandal that has cost him his rugby league TV and coaching roles behind him.
Johns emerged from his northern Sydney home this morning after last night apoligising on air for his role he in a group sex session with a 19-year-old woman seven years ago in New Zealand.
Dressed in track pants and a t-shirt, Johns left his Collaroy home about 10.30am (AEST) with friend and former Newcastle NRL team-mate Brian Carney by his side.
Carney flew from England to be by his mate's side following the explosive allegations, aired on ABC's Four Corners program on Monday.
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i quote from the co-worker
"she was bragging about it to everyone at work, i dont know how she can be fine with it one day.. then the next turn it into a crime of rape"
Anomalous6, I couldn't agree with you more, especially with my own history of sexual assault (and not because I had necessarily provoked it). I know first hand that sometimes it takes time to process something. Maybe she sabotaged her credibility with the bragging, but it doesn't mean it didn't hit her later on how much certain personal boundaries were crossed. I believe it was poor judgment with all parties. Why didn't Johns say "hey, stay out of the room, this is way out of proportion!" ?
You're still not factoring in that she was okay with the extra boys up to 5 days afterwards
I believe it does impact the issue.. because if she enjoyed what ensured.. that right there is consent of the extra parties rocking up..
so that pretty much negates taking without asking..
You cant ignore part of the story to change the outcome..
Its very important to understand if in fact what this other woman says is true.. then what took place was 100% legal and wasnt wrong at all..
pushing this taking without asking while she was okay with it at the time.. and several days after
and what about in this contract.. if there was something to be appended to it, but we'll add that later but have a verbal contract to say you're in for it?
the NZ police said the will not be opening the case again.. so i cant see anyone getting charged..
And yes i probably agree with the rest of what you said..
theres also this big issue of her bragging about it almost a week after it happened too :P
puts a big question over her argument..
Maybe one of her friends got back to her mother or something, and got it into her head that its morally wrong and went down that track..
But as it stands no one will know the real story :P
re contract, that is illegal. you have the right to know everything your up for before agreeing.
the fact that she didnt seem effect by it for 5 days indicates she had no problem with the other boys joining in..
it was only after the 5 days something happened as i said.. her mum could have found out, and had a word with her.. and convinced her it was wrong.. in which she changed her tune..
But just because someone else views it as wrong doesnt mean she didnt like it, and enjoyed it..
Enjoying and bragging about it, denotes consent to the extra players joining in..
no, her not saying no does not mean consent. if i dont say stop, it doesnt mean GO. it could mean 'i dont know, i'm not sure and i havent had a chance to think about it'
but then your mother says, "WHAT? YOU GAVE SOMEONE THAT BROKE IN $100!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING????? CALL THE POLICE CHARGE HIM"
Though you were fine with it at the time, you wernt ganna press charges.. he didnt hurt you, you didnt feel that affaid..
Should you now change your mind and say he stole $100 from you?
Jup, the enjoyment factor is not the issue, it is taking something without asking. a 3 yr old might know better. THEY presumed she consented and walked on in to TAKE her in turns. whether she went along or didnt, it is THEIR behaviour of presuming 'the girl will love it' that is the problem. at no stage was she told "is it ok if the other guys come in and join in??"
would = wouldnt.. sorry typo
remember her not saying no, is a verbal contract too..
95% if sex in the world is non-verbal contracted consensual sex :P
I've never actually uttered the words "Do you want to have sex tonight?" to any of my parners i've had sex with..
they've also never said no either :P
Well look, we're not ganna get anywhere arguing this point honestly..
You cant see... things can change.. and her vocalising her approval to her friends after the fact..
doesnt enter in to your logic..
if it was indeed coercion.. she'd have been pretty pissed when she left that night..
and wouldnt be bragging about it to her mates :P
but anywho.. i guess we just have to agree to disagree :P
So going out on a date, not knowing if you're ganna be invited into her house afterwards or not, is counted as rape..
Jeez, every man in the world should put up a rape claim didnt know if they were ganna get sex until right up to the point of a kiss or whatnot..
jup, lets think of it this way. If I was in my house and a theif broke in and demanded money so i gave him my wallet 'willingingly', then he leaves. later police say 'well you did give him your wallet willingly' so no case ??? that is NOT how it works. He shouldnt have been there in the first place!! i didnt invite him in.
no, not during. the wrong here was committed as soon as these guys came in and started touching her.
any 'willingness' after this was coercion. Any legal person will tell you that. its like reading a contrract and signing it - you cant have any pressure to sign.
no, you're talking about being violated during..
she wasnt violated if she enjoyed it.. those are total polar oppisites.. :P
You cant be violated while enjoying it..
Jup, if you think about it, a lot of guys would actually get consent without knowing they're even doing it. most guys dont want sex with someone who doesnt want them. "you are seriously, hot, want to go back to my place, i probably wont be able to keep my hands off you though" she says 'me too, lets go'... consent right there
re verbally asking for sex, this would apply primarily to strangers or goup things - really, if we know eachother we can 'non verbalise' and it can still be fair.
btw, she WAS enjoying it with matty and the other guy - she admitted that. But how did enjoyment of 2 mean the invitation of 12 more? is that your argument??
if this girl knew there were 13 guys involved and said 'sure it all good' , the guys are in the clear and the moral police can step in on group sex (another issue i dont care about)
jup, i agree that discredited 'claire' is agood means of putting doubt on her whole story, but lets not forget that Matty and the others admitted to police that indeed it was a gang bang whereby other entered the room unannounced. This in itself is a problem. Never mind whether the girl was f'vcked up over it a day or a year later.
(cont)... is paramount to the story..
from what im hearing now.. shows legit concent to extras joining in..
what i see a lot of people doing.. is taking one side of the story and believing it as truth..
It may not be a respectful act.. but i dont see this as being degrading if she was willing to endure such acitivities..
I certainly would allow my buddies to fuck my gf or someone i was interested in.. being that its morally wrong ..
But others do like that sort of thing..
ok, if any person has sexual intercourse with another without their fee and willing consent PRIOR to the act, it is rape. The person needs to know about it first and have some say in it.
well of course in that senario a crime took place..
But if in the same story.. you said to a mate afterwards... you found a guy in your house, and you were startled as he broke and entered but looked homeless .. and you gave him $100 .. then told your mates i felt sorry for him and gave him a hundred bucks coz im such a nice guy.. no crime took place :P cept his breaking and entering :P
i love how they state "if they truly believe it was consensual, they should not be afraid of standing up publicly"
Look what has happened to Mathew Johns, lost his job on TV and his last link to league.
Of course they wont own up.
well we could all go into the psychology of how poeple 'should' react after events and judge them for it, or we could concentrate on what was wrong with the actual event. it was not a freak act of nature. this was a very deliberate attempt to gang bang a girl without her consent to start with.
re changing mind. That is not my decision. the law is pretty clear re crime. it is not for the victim to even charge people, police do.
no. the footy show had it right last night. as SOON as those guys walked in on that girl and started groping etc THEY were in the wrong. Nevermind her reaction. She needed to know about this, not have it sprung on her. This is not a 'birthday surprise'. You cant walk up to someone and start grabbing her boobs until she says no or watch to see a 'yes'. you need to know its OK first. cbf.. i fear u and some others are not capable of getting this.
jimjackson, there is a BIG difference between agreeing to have sex with 2 (call her what you will for that) and 12 or more. These guys sprung this on her. imagine your date inviting a string of big lesbians with strap ons into the room to 'gang up on you'. its wrong and why people are defending this behaivour is beyond me. I am ashamed to be aussie right now.
exaclty, he is still in the wrong. that is what i dont understand in all this. The guys did wrong. never mind the girl's reaction to it. If we want to trial the girl over her good or bad reactions, that's a whole different story. personally i think she probably oscillated from highs/lows over this, not knowing what to think. Never mind my sympathy for the thief, he did wrong.
well here's my prediction for what its worth. The others wil be named and shamed. Matty johns will end up needing psychological help + meds for depression/anxiety and may attempt his life. Being jobless wont help with this. The NRL will attempt to discredit the girl to save their game. There may be charges laid on those other guys who has sex with her without her consent.
thats part of the story though.. you're ignoring a vital part of the story which changes the outcome :P
if shes fine with it afterward, and said to her friends she had fun.. and it was a brilliant night...
How is that shes been raped?
I've never asked any girl i've had sex with "Can i have sex with you" nor have they ever said Yes or No..
Its always been non verbal consent.. which is, her not saying no.. and going along with it willingly and being part of the enjoyable experience..
Jup, it wouldnt matter if I was jumping for joy after giving that theif my wallet - I could be psychotic or neurotic or just developmentally challenged. its still wrong.
point was... it sounds like she was coerced into believing her night of awesomeness was nothing but a christians nightmare :P
You keep saying its all about the other guys coming in.. if you're believing the girl uncontrolably.. you must factor in other elements of the story..
Its sounding more and more like someone changed her mind rather than having a revelation that oh.. i feel degraded..
Someone who enjoys something doesnt automatically feed bad about it 5 days later unless things change
You're stuck on this deal where the other guys came in and raped her.. but if she enjoyed the other guys coming in.. its not rape dude..