Panie majster, wszystkie wyniki są jak najbardziej spodziewane. Z cienką kolumną ciągnąc za "wajchę" rura ugina się na całej długości + do tego stolik (a stolik jest dość wysoko, więc mierzalne ugięcie jest "małe"). Po zalaniu kolumny jest ona bardzo sztywna, więc całą siłę ugięcia przejmuje najsłabsze ogniwo (stolik). Przy takim pomiarze trzeba było mierzyć ugięcie między głowicą, a podstawą maszyny i wtedy ugięcie z pewnością byłoby mniejsze po zalaniu kolumny (i to znacznie). W tych małych wiertarkach to właśnie stolik jest najbardziej wiotki i to właśnie na jego modyfikacji trzeba się skupić. :)
I'm not sure that you did more to decease post bending than increase the weight of the machine. The dial still moves a quarter turn Thanks for the video
I am looking for old machines for ever. Most are scrap and beyond rapair or over priced or out of my league in terms of size. It's like the famous painting in the attic, it has happened, but not to me.
Mmm, I think you improved definitely the column in reducing vibrations, but I'm pretty sure you should also give a look at the table as it's bending many times.. Some angular support should be appreciated.. =)
usually bending happens within the table against the column when applying (down) force. in my experience the only way to make these cheap drill presses drill properly is to put something under the table as a support.
Yep, I welded in some flat-irons under the table, they pick up support from the lower part of the movable collet, stiffness increased significantly but at the price that I cannot tilt the table, thought.
Тут притяжка к трубе головы станка идет двумя винтиками, а не сжатием ободка вокруг трубы. Причем место прижатия винтов совсем не в том направлении работает чтобы удержать голову от качния вперëд-назад, а только вбока. Может в этом всë дело? Просто первонаяальная нагрузка после сборки отклонила верхнюю часть назад по максимуму, а при первом измерении голова уже была нагрузками при сверлениях отклонена. Так что не правильный замер, имхо. Можно попытаться сзади пару болтов вкрутить чтобы уменьшить влияние люфта неплотного надевания на трубу верхней части.
I would replace those top grub screws, tapped holes and screws locate better than a grub screw on a diameter. Or possibly add dowel pins to add rigidity?
The tube is rigid enough - the base connection to the foot, and the very simple two grub screws in the receiver in the head will be the weak points, probably a bit of both but more up top. Increasing the mass of the drill stand is not a bad thing though, it will dampen vibrations and squealing considerably. The Chinese can build very well and to very high standards - it's just that isn't the stuff they export, and they also export 100% of what the factories produce for the foreign purchasers, including the rejects and badly finished or fitted machinery... Perhaps fitting the head assembly using heavy Loctite type locking compound to fix it in place and remove any possible play will help? Could be problematic getting it back apart though later...
Примите мои соболезнования коллега! Сам прошёл этот кривой путь, заливал колонну смолой + арматура. Не помогло. Единственный более-менее реальный выход - замена фланца на более высокий и широкий и имплантация металла под базу. Остальное не поможет.
The column is thin, you definitely added some strength but I believe the flexing of the baseplate is the issue. Adding more steel to the underside would help greatly and not interfere with any other function.
Filling the column with cement does not affect the performance because the side load is very small (perhaps only 15-20 kg). The rigidity can be improved by using a better foundation and mounting.
Para que trabaje bien el concreto reforzado tienes que pre-tensar las varillas de construcción (poniéndole unos tornillos y estirarlos fuertemente dentro del tubo antes de vaciar el concreto) pero teniendo en cuenta de no flexar el tubo. Tener presente el tiempo de fraguado y humedad necesaria, además si lo vibras un poco quedaría más compacto.
Olá. Como você disse olhe para o outro lado. O problema de oscilação é a base onde você fixa a coluna. Aumente a rigidez da base e a coluna deixa de oscilar.
@@helmartorneiro9673 Olá, fiz algumas mudanças na minha FB. 1º Troquei a coluna por uma tubo com paredes masi grossa (de 2,0mm>>6mm); 2ºtroquei a base também por uma chapa mais grossa(2,0MM> 8,0MM). Na base coloquei rodizios, para a movimentação. E para evitar a vibração vinda dos rodizios, coloquei em cada canto da base um parafusos que serve como apóio suspendendo a FB deixando nivelada e firme sem oscilação e com os rodizios livres.
I bought a Chinese column drill and aside from being an imprecise construction machine, the first problem that came up was the table that didn't keep a square with the column, therefore, with the spindle. I then placed an adjustable support that, supported on the base, keeps the table horizontal. Afterwards there was no way to stop the straps from slipping. I removed the pulleys and replaced it with sprockets and chain. I didn't worry about varying the speed, but I left around 200 RPM which is good for bigger and smaller drills. It got a little noisier, but it certainly doesn't skate anymore. I use it to drill 1020 and 1045 steel mainly between 10.5 and 25.0 mm. I even made a system with an aquarium pump and so I have refrigeration. For smaller holes I use a bench drill similar to the one shown in the video.🇧🇷
Замечания: 1.Это не песок. На вид это земля. Лучше прогуляться и набрать речного. Благо нужно не много. 2.Водоцементное соотношение делали на глаз. 3.Пластификатор не использовали. 4.Вибрирование не сделали. 5.Был ли выдержан полный срок (27 дней) - не известно. У людей отношение к бетону как у детей к каше-малаше в песочнице.
Hello, I have exactlly the same drilling machine and I think that the bending comes from the weakness of the table's fixture. Unfortunately the only solution I found is to use a little hydraulic jack under the table. I had the same idea as You, filling the column with cement, but it was in order to reduce vibrations by increasing the mass of the machine. I will try the foam loint. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Yes I have a floor model drill with the same problem. I installed a steel post under the drill table. Run the table down until it contacted the post, then lock it in place. I use various thickness scrap pieces between the post and table which allow the table to be raised or lowered (didn't have a jack handy). Problem solved
@@ats440youFinally! someone who agrees with me! is the first thing I thought but not having tried it I couldn't take it for sure, even though I was 99% sure!
Yo tengo un taladro similar marca silver línea y no tuve ningún problema de pandeo o movimiento, la clave es que la base donde asientas el taladro sea completamente rígida, en mi caso fué una viga I de acero de 8 x4 pulgadas.
absolutely take a look column vs head unit and then column vs vise base. Lot of play in head unit and vise base column clamps . Lot of play in the tilt system of the vise base also. Every surface must be straightened. Good luck
Good effort. Flex is from a number of areas. Table fit to column plus motor head fit to column . Plus it is a inexpensive little machine. Much better than a hand drill but not a mill. Great for drilling many many holes.
Cześć kolego. Mam podobną wiertarkę już kilkanaście lat Powermat 450W. Jest to dobra maszyna ale też mało sztywna. Problemem w tych sprzętach jest sztywność ruchomego stołu. Wspornik tego stołu jest zbyt delikatny i od nacisku wiertła ugina się. Ja przy większym wierceniu pod blat podkładam podnośnik śrubowy, który nie pozwala na ugięcie się stołu. :)
the concrete will reduce chatter - but it's not doing anything about that flex - that's in the table. particularly the single center-pivot bolt where the table can be tilted. The base is also a big source of flex.
У меня китаец поменьше Внутренний диаметр колонны 52 Я взял советскую 57 стенка 4 трубу чуть длиннее разрезал вдоль 2 реза выбросил где то 8 10 мм и вогнал ее вовнутрь стойки прессом также поменял нижнюю плиту сделал из 300 швеллера с ребрами жесткости и поставил помощней нижний фланец(сделал из водопроводного) Жесткость увеличилась где то в 2 раза не идеал конечно но стало получше Успехов Вам
La idea suyo muy bueno , esos taladros en realidad son unos juguetes , los chinos fabrican , pero tienen criterio , pero le ponen un logo para uso industrial , primero no tiene estabilidad , el motor se recalienta , las fajas son para juguetes . Yo los utilecè solo para inspirarme , colocas un tubo pared 6 mm , motor 2 HP , poleas para faja tipo A , tienes un taladro 8 horas perforando , saludos desde SICUANI Cusco Perú 🇵🇪
The concrete should have been vibrated at least, to compact it! However, its more likely that the fit from the drill head to the pillar has some freedom. Therefore, I would suggest that you assemble the components using 'bearing fit' or a thick superglue, to eliminate any possible movement between the various components. .
Good solution , I filled mine with a tooling resin and welded a plate to the machine base and cast that solid as well , not much improvement in accuracy but took the resonance out of the drill so could drill 14.00mm holes straight through 50 mm cast iron with no vibration ….. as another comment said about sows ear and silk purse !! ( my drill came out of a skip at work !) it will always be a cheap drill
Claramente se ve un espacio en la base de la brida que intentaron rellenar con un forro de plastico, min.3.25~3.30 ademas creo primero se debe procurar estabilizar la base haciendola mas rigida
Interesting result. Is it possible to get the head tighter on the column maybe that's where the movement is? I had some ribbed rubber mat from bench-top and glued it onto the flat surfaces, even more dramatic than window seal
Thanks for the feedback. The head is fastened quite tightly, it is more difficult to press it, because the wall of the pipe will be clogged, it is thin-walled. In my opinion, the biggest backlash is given by a poorly fixed thrust table.
@@MadeInGarage You can test the table movimento by addind / removing a weight sta the center of the table, 10 kg as in your e Apple. I have all’osteria some drill press, a other flex is from all’ the check assembla up to the top pulendo, it moves to much even with low tra El. I have to find the root cause and probably also repliche bearings.
A good test would be to put the mag base on the column and then probe the head and the table independently. It seems likely the fit between the post and the head is not rigid and would benefit from another circle of screws. Also, the large center screw that locks the tilt of the table needs to be tight and the two mating surfaces need to contact on their periphery. Placing a scissors jack between the base and the table will make a measurable difference.
The concrete does not contact really the steal. So no changing in bending is to expect. The second problem ist the table. I guess, there is much more of the bending. Try something with the table. And changing the tube to another one with more the 2mm will bring something.
Bastava non acquistare il trapano cinese,potevi optare per una macchina usata ma di qualità,con basamento in ghisa,corpo macchina fuso e colonna spessa. Non una macchina utensile fatta di latta. Ciao
Not a metal pipe, it’s actually a tube. The tube is not bending under 10 lbs of load. The table is flexing. I would suspect at the point where the table meets the arm. I bet if some sort of support was put underneath the front of the table that is against the floor the deflection would go away.
Big work for not much, changing the tube by another of the same diameter but in 3/4 or even 5mm would have been much faster, cheaper and above all more judicious and efficient.
This machine imported from China and sold at such a reasonable price needs to take more credit than you give it!!..Bending moment of the post...what do you expect from a 100UKP machine.I have machines working in my shop costing 1000's all to drill a little hole, so a cheapeo from China does the job, reduces overhead costs and needs praise that the UK could never ever produce this bit of kit at a price that simply does the job.. Its a tool to do the job and it does it well, If you need to use a dial gauge then but a Simmons at 23,000UKP.
Я с китайцем 3 года воевал: в колонну шпильку забетонировал d 28, основание усилил металлом 10 мм, ну нет жёсткости и все. Отверстия все-равно криво получаются. Итог:- подвернулся станок советский СН15-Ш1 , состояние ужасное, но махнул китайца на этого динозавра. Восстанавливал 2 месяца, теперь не нарадуюсь, жесткость такая, что можно потихоньку фрезеровать. Но конечно, все зависит от поставленных задач.
Всего 10 в основание? Вы бы ещё тройку туда положили... Если бы наоборот, 28 в основание, 10 в колонну, тогда толк будет. Советские станки с массивным основанием делали. А китайцы жестяной чугун ставят.
Bonjour, vous avez rigidifié votre colonne certes, mais maintenant c'est votre plateau qui pli, alors que l'effort était répartit, c'est lui seul qui encaisse tous les efforts. Prévoyez plutôt le renfort en dessous du plateau. Enfin ce n'est juste que mon avis. Une flexion est toujours mieux qu'une rupture qui ne préviens pas.
Sorry, but any true Machinist knows that the real problem with cheal drill presses, is the spindle speed. These cheap machines are made for wood, plastic, and non ferrous metals AT BEST.
but here the problem is not the speed of the spindle but how much pressure is applied to make the hole: the problem complained of would also occur with a large hole in the hard wood, and it is the plate support arm that yields (with a prop adjustable from low wouldn't happen) 1
Возьми буровую трубу, будет счастье, правда на токарном надо обточить будет, зато жесткости будет много. И ещё вместо шестигранников, которые крепят верхнюю бабку к трубе сделать хомут зажимной
Edit: in another comment I found one that solved with the prop method under the table, fifth I confirm that the principle of my idea is correct.. the read carefully my post :-)) the bending you get is mainly due to the flexibility of the fixing system of the mobile top to the column. You could take three or 4 sections of 3/4 - 1.5 inch diameter plumbing pipe with the relative couplings (in the brico centers they already sell them threaded from both ends) in order to create a prop that goes up from the foot of the drill. up to the lower part of the adjustable plate. At the head of this prop you put a threaded plate that supports a threaded bar of 12 mm or more that can reach exactly against the lower side of the adjustable plate. at this point, if everything is well inserted, the displacement should be reset
E improbabile che il problema venga dalla colonna quanto invece dal pianetto.... In più la misurazione che fai con il comparatore ti appoggiandolo al pianetto ti riporta anche tutto il suo errore oltre a quello eventuale della colonna
Треба було замість водного розчину використовувати епоксидну смолу ......на мій погляд результат був би набагато краще. Та ще треба було б використовувати ущільнення вібрацією , перфоратором.....
There’s play in the hole system is at fault I have the same drill press I’m toying with the idea of welding all the base parts together but I would get a much thicker pole first then shim the top of the pole to take out as much of the slack ( there is a lot of play ) then refit the head
Buying a better drill press would've cost more than the ChiCom press, as you get what you pay for, and some say "You deserve what you get." Higher quality tools are worth saving up to pay for. They don't break as often, and they often outlive their owners.
That video is worthwhile to watch just for the translation alone!👍 My German one was short of cracking me up!😂 As for the problem at Hand: The flex and the play is in the connections between the components and that is not easy to remedy.
Арматура в этом случае жесткости совсем не прибавит, в бетонных изделиях арматура работает на растяжение, в данном случае пока возникнет растяжение, колонна будет ощутимо согнута.
Witam. Tak, patent bardzo dobry. Ja w swojej wiertarce zastosowałem rurę od siłownika i ścianka ma chyba 8 milimetrów grubości. 20 lat temu budowałem frezarkę i lałem beton w profile kwadratowe. Pozdrawiam.
У китайской сверлилки отгибается столик. Тут уж цемента хоть в трусы насыпай - не поможет так и эдак. Круглую трубу с 3мм стенкой сложнее будет согнуть.
Там не 3 мм, боюсь, у меня на гораздо более крупном ( 80+ кг, мотор 750, патрон до 20-ти ) и то 2 мм. Столик там массивнее в разы, один хрен отгибается, думаю над изменением конструкции, чтобы вообще от него отказаться.
@@alexeyzdec2316 Это да, но запас массы и размеров деталей всё же дает некоторую "фору" при работе с мелкими размерами сверл. Подобный показанному изгибается дугой при сверлении тройкой. У меня такой был давно ещё, тёмно-зеленый, бренд не помню. Точно такой же. Мой на этих размерах ведет себя очень хорошо, но после 12-ти уже тоже "не хватает".
Es tragen die Oberflächen. Da du aus dem Rohr eine Stange gemacht hast, hast du die Tragfähigkiet der Innenwand geschwächt, deshalb hat das nicht geholfen .
The runout you are measuring is between the top unit and the work support piece. At such a short distance between the top unit and the support piece it is unlikely to be flex in a 2mm thick wall round column. I would say that the entire flex you are getting is simply movement (slop) in between the column and the top unit. Simply adding three more lock screws at 90 degrees would more than likely fix the problem especially front and rear ones. The single lock screw is on the side and may actually be acting like a pivot. Anything below the work support plate is mostly irrelevant unless the while thing tips over as its not secured. The tape is good idea, I will put some on my drill press
If the column was the problem, that would surely have helped. A tiny hydraulic jack or scissor jack under the work table should help. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Not exactly sure what you are wanting from a table top Chinese drill press. What are you drilling that needs to be absolutely perfect? If your needs are that precise, you need to put your money into such a seriously quality type drill press setup and forego a cheap Chinese press.
Hàng giá rẻ của Trung Quốc chỉ để phục vụ các công việc không đòi hỏi độ chính xác cao, nếu muốn dùng cho mục đích nhu càu cao thì bạn hãy mua các sản phẩm có chất lương cao khác
The pole ridgidity definitly improved the drill. Mayve the top 2 inches section of the tube should have beed left empty. This allows the tube conform to the shape of the cast hed when the set screw is secured and have a better fit to the cast. Also I would try to rotate the pole
No veo la ventaja de llevar el tubo de la columna con material y otra columna de hierro de construcción, lo mejor es cambiarlo por otro del mismo diámetro pero de una pared de al menos 3/16 de espesor y listo, además es una agujereadora para trabajos chicos y tiene suficiente capacidad cambiándole la columna .
These cheap drills are OK if you're gonna use them very seldomly but if you want more accuracy/reliability "upgrading" makes no sense because ALL the parts will be "iffy". Just spend some more money on a better one or buy a used one. It's like trying to build a new house on a rotten foundation.
@@ДмитрийАндрианов-г4х Силумин (на одних или 2 мм фольга на других). Стойку в нем перекашивает в основании по сторонам. И лечиться только созданием нового основания. У меня такой же сверлькЪ...леченый перелеченый.
Actually if your shopping find an old made in Taiwan say made back in late 1970s early 80s .. had one for sale start up capacitor was going guy called to verify serial numbers said would pay five more than what was asking..turned out his brother worked in factory that still exists said buy it the cast iron in it is better quality than what is in use now paid me and left smiling
The biggest problem with these machines, is the lack of rigidity(as you've demonstrated). The table is generally of very thin section cast iron, poorly machined and with locking mechanisms that bind rather than compress/secure = deburr, file and ensure all mating surfaces are flat and parrallel to the clamping axis, and replace the toggle handles with high tensile set screws WITH large thick plain washers to distribute the clamping forced, especially the tilt mechanism! The head assembly is loosely machined and provided with 2 grub screws to secure it and to align it to the column = remove the grub screws AFTER drilling three equidistant holes, arranged vertically on the same side of the casting as the grub srews, BUT located between the rear most surface of the column and the end of the casting body. Drill throught the ENTIRE head casting to suit M10x1.5mm clearance holes and then cut vertically through the middle of the rear most part of the head casting with a metal cutting/slitting disc;Make to strap clamps(one with tapped holes and one with clearance holes), and fit these strap clamps over the head casting, then refit and clamp slowly and EVENLY as the casting is very brittle. The spindle mounting hole can also receive this treatment, but on a smaller scale to take up spindle/bore chatter. A small telescopic tube with a car trackrod end can be fitted between the base and drill table, or add two(one in each quadrant) for MEGA rigidity, which helps for milling work too.
Em algo descartável não existe tentar recuperar o que já foi concebido com economia ao máximo , o bom seria recuperar o dinheiro e comprar um produto mais caro e que de resposta aceitável a sua proposta
Lógico,, has añadido mas peso sin mejorar la base, afianzar que este en contacto con el suelo sin ruedas y un carrito de por medio. Al menos eres un tío honesto que saca cuando las cosas no salen como se esperaba. Podías haber utilizado arena en vez de cemento, para poder quitarla con facilidad, aunque no creo que ni la arena ni el cemento mejoren la rigidez, creo que tiene bastante con el acero.
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Panie majster, wszystkie wyniki są jak najbardziej spodziewane. Z cienką kolumną ciągnąc za "wajchę" rura ugina się na całej długości + do tego stolik (a stolik jest dość wysoko, więc mierzalne ugięcie jest "małe"). Po zalaniu kolumny jest ona bardzo sztywna, więc całą siłę ugięcia przejmuje najsłabsze ogniwo (stolik). Przy takim pomiarze trzeba było mierzyć ugięcie między głowicą, a podstawą maszyny i wtedy ugięcie z pewnością byłoby mniejsze po zalaniu kolumny (i to znacznie). W tych małych wiertarkach to właśnie stolik jest najbardziej wiotki i to właśnie na jego modyfikacji trzeba się skupić. :)
It seems obvious to me that the first thing to reforge is the work bench where the base of the drill rests.
I'm not sure that you did more to decease post bending than increase the weight of the machine. The dial still moves a quarter turn Thanks for the video
I think I would look around for a machinery auction and try to buy a 75 year old drill press made in England or similar.
The problem with that is 75 year old machines are mostly 3 phase motors an shagged out mechanical parts only fit for scrap.
Good luck finding one. All of those have been bought up by 100 year old ex-engineers for use at home.
I am looking for old machines for ever. Most are scrap and beyond rapair or over priced or out of my league in terms of size. It's like the famous painting in the attic, it has happened, but not to me.
Mmm, I think you improved definitely the column in reducing vibrations, but I'm pretty sure you should also give a look at the table as it's bending many times.. Some angular support should be appreciated.. =)
usually bending happens within the table against the column when applying (down) force. in my experience the only way to make these cheap drill presses drill properly is to put something under the table as a support.
Yep, I welded in some flat-irons under the table, they pick up support from the lower part of the movable collet, stiffness increased significantly but at the price that I cannot tilt the table, thought.
Тут притяжка к трубе головы станка идет двумя винтиками, а не сжатием ободка вокруг трубы. Причем место прижатия винтов совсем не в том направлении работает чтобы удержать голову от качния вперëд-назад, а только вбока. Может в этом всë дело? Просто первонаяальная нагрузка после сборки отклонила верхнюю часть назад по максимуму, а при первом измерении голова уже была нагрузками при сверлениях отклонена. Так что не правильный замер, имхо. Можно попытаться сзади пару болтов вкрутить чтобы уменьшить влияние люфта неплотного надевания на трубу верхней части.
I would replace those top grub screws, tapped holes and screws locate better than a grub screw on a diameter. Or possibly add dowel pins to add rigidity?
The tube is rigid enough - the base connection to the foot, and the very simple two grub screws in the receiver in the head will be the weak points, probably a bit of both but more up top. Increasing the mass of the drill stand is not a bad thing though, it will dampen vibrations and squealing considerably. The Chinese can build very well and to very high standards - it's just that isn't the stuff they export, and they also export 100% of what the factories produce for the foreign purchasers, including the rejects and badly finished or fitted machinery... Perhaps fitting the head assembly using heavy Loctite type locking compound to fix it in place and remove any possible play will help? Could be problematic getting it back apart though later...
Примите мои соболезнования коллега! Сам прошёл этот кривой путь, заливал колонну смолой + арматура. Не помогло. Единственный более-менее реальный выход - замена фланца на более высокий и широкий и имплантация металла под базу. Остальное не поможет.
Имплантировать надо не металл под базу, хотя бы школьный советский станок в мастерскую, а этот имплантировать на помойку.
@@АлександрИванов-ю8т3ж Trink weiter Wodka Physik und Mechanik ist nicht dein Fach !
@@rmstylebyruganmolenomorganatee нет перевода
The column is thin, you definitely added some strength but I believe the flexing of the baseplate is the issue. Adding more steel to the underside would help greatly and not interfere with any other function.
Filling the column with cement does not affect the performance because the side load is very small (perhaps only 15-20 kg). The rigidity can be improved by using a better foundation and mounting.
Para que trabaje bien el concreto reforzado tienes que pre-tensar las varillas de construcción (poniéndole unos tornillos y estirarlos fuertemente dentro del tubo antes de vaciar el concreto) pero teniendo en cuenta de no flexar el tubo. Tener presente el tiempo de fraguado y humedad necesaria, además si lo vibras un poco quedaría más compacto.
Olá. Como você disse olhe para o outro lado. O problema de oscilação é a base onde você fixa a coluna. Aumente a rigidez da base e a coluna deixa de oscilar.
@@helmartorneiro9673 Olá, fiz algumas mudanças na minha FB. 1º Troquei a coluna por uma tubo com paredes masi grossa (de 2,0mm>>6mm); 2ºtroquei a base também por uma chapa mais grossa(2,0MM> 8,0MM). Na base coloquei rodizios, para a movimentação. E para evitar a vibração vinda dos rodizios, coloquei em cada canto da base um parafusos que serve como apóio suspendendo a FB deixando nivelada e firme sem oscilação e com os rodizios livres.
I bought a Chinese column drill and aside from being an imprecise construction machine, the first problem that came up was the table that didn't keep a square with the column, therefore, with the spindle. I then placed an adjustable support that, supported on the base, keeps the table horizontal. Afterwards there was no way to stop the straps from slipping. I removed the pulleys and replaced it with sprockets and chain. I didn't worry about varying the speed, but I left around 200 RPM which is good for bigger and smaller drills. It got a little noisier, but it certainly doesn't skate anymore. I use it to drill 1020 and 1045 steel mainly between 10.5 and 25.0 mm. I even made a system with an aquarium pump and so I have refrigeration. For smaller holes I use a bench drill similar to the one shown in the video.🇧🇷
Замечания:
1.Это не песок. На вид это земля. Лучше прогуляться и набрать речного. Благо нужно не много.
2.Водоцементное соотношение делали на глаз.
3.Пластификатор не использовали.
4.Вибрирование не сделали.
5.Был ли выдержан полный срок (27 дней) - не известно.
У людей отношение к бетону как у детей к каше-малаше в песочнице.
Ну зачем вы так про кашу-малашу!)))
Hello, I have exactlly the same drilling machine and I think that the bending comes from the weakness of the table's fixture. Unfortunately the only solution I found is to use a little hydraulic jack under the table. I had the same idea as You, filling the column with cement, but it was in order to reduce vibrations by increasing the mass of the machine. I will try the foam loint.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
bonjour et ci au lieu de couler du ciment deux ferraille en croix souder serait mise sur tout la longueur serai cesse pas la solution ??
Yes I have a floor model drill with the same problem. I installed a steel post under the drill table. Run the table down until it contacted the post, then lock it in place. I use various thickness scrap pieces between the post and table which allow the table to be raised or lowered (didn't have a jack handy). Problem solved
@@ats440youFinally! someone who agrees with me! is the first thing I thought but not having tried it I couldn't take it for sure, even though I was 99% sure!
For pouring your mix, the cut-off top of the mixing bottle would've made an adequate funnel.
@@ats440you I said the same thing in another comment. No way that tube is flexing that much with 10 lbs or 10 kg of force.
Пропорция 1 к 3 вполне достаточна, цемент это связывающий материал, большее его количество не означает крепче а может сделать все наоборот.
1.Станки если и заливают бетоном,то полимерным.2 Эту шляпу как не заливай,толку не будет.3.Причины нежесткости не только в колонне.
Yo tengo un taladro similar marca silver línea y no tuve ningún problema de pandeo o movimiento, la clave es que la base donde asientas el taladro sea completamente rígida, en mi caso fué una viga I de acero de 8 x4 pulgadas.
Yo le colocaria internamente un tubo de menor diametro, un trozo de tuberia de acueducto.
absolutely take a look column vs head unit and then column vs vise base. Lot of play in head unit and vise base column clamps . Lot of play in the tilt system of the vise base also. Every surface must be straightened. Good luck
Good effort. Flex is from a number of areas. Table fit to column plus motor head fit to column . Plus it is a inexpensive little machine. Much better than a hand drill but not a mill. Great for drilling many many holes.
Cześć kolego. Mam podobną wiertarkę już kilkanaście lat Powermat 450W. Jest to dobra maszyna ale też mało sztywna. Problemem w tych sprzętach jest sztywność ruchomego stołu. Wspornik tego stołu jest zbyt delikatny i od nacisku wiertła ugina się. Ja przy większym wierceniu pod blat podkładam podnośnik śrubowy, który nie pozwala na ugięcie się stołu. :)
to nie tylko te problemy stół roboczy mimo mocnego przykręcenia potrafi się obrócić na bok masakra jedynie przykręcić drugą śrubą na stałe pozdrawiam
the concrete will reduce chatter - but it's not doing anything about that flex - that's in the table. particularly the single center-pivot bolt where the table can be tilted. The base is also a big source of flex.
Im heaving same problem and i came with conclusion that bench is a problem too,that is a part which is bending.
У меня китаец поменьше Внутренний диаметр колонны 52 Я взял советскую 57 стенка 4 трубу чуть длиннее разрезал вдоль 2 реза выбросил где то 8 10 мм и вогнал ее вовнутрь стойки прессом также поменял нижнюю плиту сделал из 300 швеллера с ребрами жесткости и поставил помощней нижний фланец(сделал из водопроводного) Жесткость увеличилась где то в 2 раза не идеал конечно но стало получше Успехов Вам
La brida que sujeta la columna al pie, está rellena con papel o plástico, ahí hay un defecto de rigidez
La idea suyo muy bueno , esos taladros en realidad son unos juguetes , los chinos fabrican , pero tienen criterio , pero le ponen un logo para uso industrial , primero no tiene estabilidad , el motor se recalienta , las fajas son para juguetes .
Yo los utilecè solo para inspirarme , colocas un tubo pared 6 mm , motor 2 HP , poleas para faja tipo A , tienes un taladro 8 horas perforando , saludos desde SICUANI Cusco Perú 🇵🇪
У круглой трубы очень большая жосткость! Вся проблема в неправильном креплении головы и жосткости столика! Я бы сказал это очень удачный эксперимент!
The concrete should have been vibrated at least, to compact it!
However, its more likely that the fit from the drill head to the pillar has some freedom.
Therefore, I would suggest that you assemble the components using 'bearing fit' or a thick superglue, to eliminate any possible movement between the various components.
.
Good solution , I filled mine with a tooling resin and welded a plate to the machine base and cast that solid as well , not much improvement in accuracy but took the resonance out of the drill so could drill 14.00mm holes straight through 50 mm cast iron with no vibration ….. as another comment said about sows ear and silk purse !! ( my drill came out of a skip at work !) it will always be a cheap drill
Claramente se ve un espacio en la base de la brida que intentaron rellenar con un forro de plastico, min.3.25~3.30 ademas creo primero se debe procurar estabilizar la base haciendola mas rigida
Nice attempt. It is next to impossible to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. It will never be anything other than a Chinese drill press.
Interesting result.
Is it possible to get the head tighter on the column maybe that's where the movement is?
I had some ribbed rubber mat from bench-top and glued it onto the flat surfaces, even more dramatic than window seal
Thanks for the feedback.
The head is fastened quite tightly, it is more difficult to press it, because the wall of the pipe will be clogged, it is thin-walled.
In my opinion, the biggest backlash is given by a poorly fixed thrust table.
@@MadeInGarage You can test the table movimento by addind / removing a weight sta the center of the table, 10 kg as in your e Apple. I have all’osteria some drill press, a other flex is from all’ the check assembla up to the top pulendo, it moves to much even with low tra El. I have to find the root cause and probably also repliche bearings.
You probably add some stiffness in the assembly but your test method is as bad as the way you make concrete:-)
A good test would be to put the mag base on the column and then probe the head and the table independently. It seems likely the fit between the post and the head is not rigid and would benefit from another circle of screws. Also, the large center screw that locks the tilt of the table needs to be tight and the two mating surfaces need to contact on their periphery. Placing a scissors jack between the base and the table will make a measurable difference.
дякую за відео, вдачі та більше цікавого показуйте. Ви звідки?
The concrete does not contact really the steal. So no changing in bending is to expect. The second problem ist the table. I guess, there is much more of the bending. Try something with the table. And changing the tube to another one with more the 2mm will bring something.
Good afternoon where you bought the site as you did I'm from Brazil send it in Portuguese thank you.
Bastava non acquistare il trapano cinese,potevi optare per una macchina usata ma di qualità,con basamento in ghisa,corpo macchina fuso e colonna spessa. Non una macchina utensile fatta di latta. Ciao
Ciao e dove le trovi macchine usate di qualità? Ci sono siti specializzati?
Simple et efficace, Bravo, Bravo.
Benny Rooman à Bruxelles.
i thought about replacing the pipe with a stronger one?
cost
To Heck with the cost! A thicker-walled pipe would be stronger and safer.
Not a metal pipe, it’s actually a tube. The tube is not bending under 10 lbs of load. The table is flexing. I would suspect at the point where the table meets the arm. I bet if some sort of support was put underneath the front of the table that is against the floor the deflection would go away.
Big work for not much, changing the tube by another of the same diameter but in 3/4 or even 5mm would have been much faster, cheaper and above all more judicious and efficient.
This machine imported from China and sold at such a reasonable price needs to take more credit than you give it!!..Bending moment of the post...what do you expect from a 100UKP machine.I have machines working in my shop costing 1000's all to drill a little hole, so a cheapeo from China does the job, reduces overhead costs and needs praise that the UK could never ever produce this bit of kit at a price that simply does the job.. Its a tool to do the job and it does it well, If you need to use a dial gauge then but a Simmons at 23,000UKP.
I hope your name is not Paul !!!!
Я с китайцем 3 года воевал: в колонну шпильку забетонировал d 28, основание усилил металлом 10 мм, ну нет жёсткости и все. Отверстия все-равно криво получаются. Итог:- подвернулся станок советский СН15-Ш1 , состояние ужасное, но махнул китайца на этого динозавра. Восстанавливал 2 месяца, теперь не нарадуюсь, жесткость такая, что можно потихоньку фрезеровать. Но конечно, все зависит от поставленных задач.
Всего 10 в основание? Вы бы ещё тройку туда положили... Если бы наоборот, 28 в основание, 10 в колонну, тогда толк будет. Советские станки с массивным основанием делали. А китайцы жестяной чугун ставят.
La rigidez de ls maquin se podria haber solucionado mejorando la base no la columna..
Bonjour, vous avez rigidifié votre colonne certes, mais maintenant c'est votre plateau qui pli, alors que l'effort était répartit, c'est lui seul qui encaisse tous les efforts.
Prévoyez plutôt le renfort en dessous du plateau. Enfin ce n'est juste que mon avis. Une flexion est toujours mieux qu'une rupture qui ne préviens pas.
I wonder, is it the table kinda flexing and not the tube? The onky thing holding the table is a loosely clamped gear and a set screw. Just a thought.
Could also be play between the top box and the top of the tube - that's only a sliding fit and a grubscrew in the side.
You have to change the pipe and the basic flange make it bigger and it will be ok.
Sorry, but any true Machinist knows that the real problem with cheal drill presses, is the spindle speed. These cheap machines are made for wood, plastic, and non ferrous metals AT BEST.
but here the problem is not the speed of the spindle but how much pressure is applied to make the hole: the problem complained of would also occur with a large hole in the hard wood, and it is the plate support arm that yields (with a prop adjustable from low wouldn't happen)
1
Возьми буровую трубу, будет счастье, правда на токарном надо обточить будет, зато жесткости будет много. И ещё вместо шестигранников, которые крепят верхнюю бабку к трубе сделать хомут зажимной
Edit:
in another comment I found one that solved with the prop method under the table, fifth I confirm that the principle of my idea is correct.. the read carefully my post :-))
the bending you get is mainly due to the flexibility of the fixing system of the mobile top to the column.
You could take three or 4 sections of 3/4 - 1.5 inch diameter plumbing pipe with the relative couplings (in the brico centers they already sell them threaded from both ends) in order to create a prop that goes up from the foot of the drill. up to the lower part of the adjustable plate. At the head of this prop you put a threaded plate that supports a threaded bar of 12 mm or more that can reach exactly against the lower side of the adjustable plate. at this point, if everything is well inserted, the displacement should be reset
E improbabile che il problema venga dalla colonna quanto invece dal pianetto.... In più la misurazione che fai con il comparatore ti appoggiandolo al pianetto ti riporta anche tutto il suo errore oltre a quello eventuale della colonna
Y ahora que hacer si se mueve mas por ejemplo si pones un tubo de pared mas gruesa?
Треба було замість водного розчину використовувати епоксидну смолу ......на мій погляд результат був би набагато краще. Та ще треба було б використовувати ущільнення вібрацією , перфоратором.....
Там проблема більше в люфтах між столиком і колоною, та самому корпусі станка і колоною.
I would support the Table and shim the top of the pillar where the drill attaches..
to nie wina sztywności kolumny tylko słaba sztywność stolika .
Not the pipe is the problem - the stiffening at the groundplate is the problem
There’s play in the hole system is at fault I have the same drill press
I’m toying with the idea of welding all the base parts together but I would get a much thicker pole first then shim the top of the pole to take out as much of the slack ( there is a lot of play ) then refit the head
It would have been easier to replace the column with a solid bar.
The bar might cost more than the drill press.
Buying a better drill press would've cost more than the ChiCom press, as you get what you pay for, and some say "You deserve what you get." Higher quality tools are worth saving up to pay for. They don't break as often, and they often outlive their owners.
That video is worthwhile to watch just for the translation alone!👍
My German one was short of cracking me up!😂
As for the problem at Hand: The flex and the play is in the connections between the components and that is not easy to remedy.
i believe that an adjustable prop that rises from the foot of the drill to the adjustable table and the flexion decreases and almost zeroes
Agrego a mi anterior comentario, la columna no tiene flexión, es donde asientas el taladro.
Creo que es culpa del brazo que sostiene el piso en movimiento
Ile zapłaciłeś za ta wiertarkę ? Dobre chińczyki zaczynają się od 4000 PLN w górę .
for what is that masking tape round the pipe
Арматура в этом случае жесткости совсем не прибавит, в бетонных изделиях арматура работает на растяжение, в данном случае пока возникнет растяжение, колонна будет ощутимо согнута.
Witam. Tak, patent bardzo dobry. Ja w swojej wiertarce zastosowałem rurę od siłownika i ścianka ma chyba 8 milimetrów grubości. 20 lat temu budowałem frezarkę i lałem beton w profile kwadratowe. Pozdrawiam.
У китайской сверлилки отгибается столик. Тут уж цемента хоть в трусы насыпай - не поможет так и эдак.
Круглую трубу с 3мм стенкой сложнее будет согнуть.
Там не 3 мм, боюсь, у меня на гораздо более крупном ( 80+ кг, мотор 750, патрон до 20-ти ) и то 2 мм. Столик там массивнее в разы, один хрен отгибается, думаю над изменением конструкции, чтобы вообще от него отказаться.
@@CitymansGarage дык термех и сопромат.... Увы, отменить невозможно.
@@alexeyzdec2316 Это да, но запас массы и размеров деталей всё же дает некоторую "фору" при работе с мелкими размерами сверл. Подобный показанному изгибается дугой при сверлении тройкой. У меня такой был давно ещё, тёмно-зеленый, бренд не помню. Точно такой же. Мой на этих размерах ведет себя очень хорошо, но после 12-ти уже тоже "не хватает".
Es tragen die Oberflächen. Da du aus dem Rohr eine Stange gemacht hast, hast du die Tragfähigkiet der Innenwand geschwächt, deshalb hat das nicht geholfen .
jednak bym zmienił tą rurę na grubościenna , wymiana silnika na mocniejszy 3 fazowy prawo lewo , no i inna sztywniejsza stopę
Please show your stepcraft and the mods you made
And next put a scrissor jack under the table to support it. Then it will be quite stabile.
wow, I couldn't believe how thin that tubing is. That's ridiculous.
Belle iniziative continua cosi ! 👍
interesting idea i think the cement will slip down as it shrink's
The runout you are measuring is between the top unit and the work support piece. At such a short distance between the top unit and the support piece it is unlikely to be flex in a 2mm thick wall round column. I would say that the entire flex you are getting is simply movement (slop) in between the column and the top unit. Simply adding three more lock screws at 90 degrees would more than likely fix the problem especially front and rear ones. The single lock screw is on the side and may actually be acting like a pivot. Anything below the work support plate is mostly irrelevant unless the while thing tips over as its not secured.
The tape is good idea, I will put some on my drill press
If the column was the problem, that would surely have helped. A tiny hydraulic jack or scissor jack under the work table should help. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Not exactly sure what you are wanting from a table top Chinese drill press. What are you drilling that needs to be absolutely perfect? If your needs are that precise, you need to put your money into such a seriously quality type drill press setup and forego a cheap Chinese press.
Para la base utilicé 2 pedazos de rieles cepillados , nos se mueve para nada
Hàng giá rẻ của Trung Quốc chỉ để phục vụ các công việc không đòi hỏi độ chính xác cao, nếu muốn dùng cho mục đích nhu càu cao thì bạn hãy mua các sản phẩm có chất lương cao khác
J’ai une perceuse chinoise aussi ( le modèle en dessous) en fait c'est pas la colonne qui tord c'est la table
Hello, Sorry for language you position one solid block metal from the side flat❗🔩❗😃🙏👋👋👋🍻
The pole ridgidity definitly improved the drill. Mayve the top 2 inches section of the tube should have beed left empty. This allows the tube conform to the shape of the cast hed when the set screw is secured and have a better fit to the cast. Also I would try to rotate the pole
The two pulls of 10kg were not equal, as the angle of the lever was different. I believe the pillar is more rigid with the concrete casting.
No veo la ventaja de llevar el tubo de la columna con material y otra columna de hierro de construcción, lo mejor es cambiarlo por otro del mismo diámetro pero de una pared de al menos 3/16 de espesor y listo, además es una agujereadora para trabajos chicos y tiene suficiente capacidad cambiándole la columna .
These cheap drills are OK if you're gonna use them very seldomly but if you want more accuracy/reliability "upgrading" makes no sense because ALL the parts will be "iffy".
Just spend some more money on a better one or buy a used one.
It's like trying to build a new house on a rotten foundation.
Also bei diesen Tischgestell für die Bohrmaschine hätte ich auch meine bedenken, wackelt wie ein Lämmerschwanz!!!
Nếu bạn đổ luôn bàn đế của trụ thì sẽ êm hơn chúc bạn thành công
It would have been better to add a tight fit column inside the old one.
Собирал, разбирал, варил, мешал, заливал... Результат - "0"! Как прыгала башка на четверть шкалы, так и прыгает...
Основание у этих станков хилое, а не стойка. Хотя....стойка тоже, та еще фольга.
при чем тут основание ?
@@ДмитрийАндрианов-г4х Силумин (на одних или 2 мм фольга на других). Стойку в нем перекашивает в основании по сторонам. И лечиться только созданием нового основания. У меня такой же сверлькЪ...леченый перелеченый.
You need tight fit between the column and the motor unit. Also between te colunm and the work top system.
o sea que ponerle cemento fue una perdida de tiempo?
Actually if your shopping find an old made in Taiwan say made back in late 1970s early 80s .. had one for sale start up capacitor was going guy called to verify serial numbers said would pay five more than what was asking..turned out his brother worked in factory that still exists said buy it the cast iron in it is better quality than what is in use now paid me and left smiling
The biggest problem with these machines, is the lack of rigidity(as you've demonstrated).
The table is generally of very thin section cast iron, poorly machined and with locking mechanisms that bind rather than compress/secure = deburr, file and ensure all mating surfaces are flat and parrallel to the clamping axis, and replace the toggle handles with high tensile set screws WITH large thick plain washers to distribute the clamping forced, especially the tilt mechanism!
The head assembly is loosely machined and provided with 2 grub screws to secure it and to align it to the column = remove the grub screws AFTER drilling three equidistant holes, arranged vertically on the same side of the casting as the grub srews, BUT located between the rear most surface of the column and the end of the casting body. Drill throught the ENTIRE head casting to suit M10x1.5mm clearance holes and then cut vertically through the middle of the rear most part of the head casting with a metal cutting/slitting disc;Make to strap clamps(one with tapped holes and one with clearance holes), and fit these strap clamps over the head casting, then refit and clamp slowly and EVENLY as the casting is very brittle. The spindle mounting hole can also receive this treatment, but on a smaller scale to take up spindle/bore chatter.
A small telescopic tube with a car trackrod end can be fitted between the base and drill table, or add two(one in each quadrant) for MEGA rigidity, which helps for milling work too.
Very very very excellent I like it
你对中国产廉价机械设备的期待太高了。机械加工设备出口在中国是廉价低质量和利益最大化的代名词。需要好的设备，请购买德国和瑞士的产品。中国制造的300美元以下产品只是看上去是那个东西，它并不能给你真正的使用价值。
Недостаточно жесткости нижней крепежной пощадки и фланца
Согласен. Надо не с последствиями бороться, а устранить причину!
Em algo descartável não existe tentar recuperar o que já foi concebido com economia ao máximo , o bom seria recuperar o dinheiro e comprar um produto mais caro e que de resposta aceitável a sua proposta
No es descartable, nunca
Lógico,, has añadido mas peso sin mejorar la base, afianzar que este en contacto con el suelo sin ruedas y un carrito de por medio. Al menos eres un tío honesto que saca cuando las cosas no salen como se esperaba. Podías haber utilizado arena en vez de cemento, para poder quitarla con facilidad, aunque no creo que ni la arena ni el cemento mejoren la rigidez, creo que tiene bastante con el acero.
Thanks you brother infomation