The thing is that a fully stocked, TNG-era Galaxy Class complete with Civilians is not *just* a military or science vessel. It's a mobile Embassy for the Federation, a way of saying not only "look what we can build" but also "we feel so safe as part of the Federation, we bring our kids!". In pre-TNG to early DS9 era, this fits in perfectly with the Federation's not only pacifistic but also complacent way of thinking of their position in the alpha and beta quadrants.
I think the civilians/family on board is a core of the Starfleet Philosophy, and makes a very bold statement to diplomatic relations. "Look at how powerful and great we are. We feel CONFIDENT in bringing our families along... We're peaceful, but totally equipped to fight if you try and press us, and you should totally join us rather than trying to oppose us." Had the Galaxy Class been a purely war focused ship, when dozens of armoured hull sections, multiple redundant shields, and more phasers and torpedo tubes than you can shake a stick at, then sure, it could have been a better WARSHIP, but it would have failed in its primary mission: Peaceful exploration and diplomacy. It is "Kind of hard" to convince someone that you "Come in peace!" if you roll up to their home planet in a tank instead of a limo. Kitting the Galaxy Class out with excessive weapons and an overly war focused layout would be kind of like putting armour plates and a turret on those tracked vehicles used in Arctic explorations, rather than just putting a rifle in the cabin to deal with polar bears. - It is armed and armoured well enough to 'handle things', but no so much as to impede the primary design mission.
i think it says more that the federation are so godamned insane that they would let children onboard a ship that frequently flies into hostile territory
Putting children on a vessel that is expected to encounter unknown dangerous natural phenomena is criminally idiotic, and whatever admiral thought that was a good idea should've been busted down to Crewman and assigned to clean crappers for the remainder of his career. Leaving aside the possibility of hostile encounters, there are more than enough dangerous natural phenomena that the ship could be expected to encounter to make bringing civilians and children onboard an insane idea. As for its utility as a warship, some of that is a matter of perspective. As a long range explorer intended to make contact with new civilizations, the design works fine. My objections I have with Starfleet is philosophical, not to the design of a single ship. My objection is not that the Galaxy was not intended primarily for battle, but that Starfleet's pacifistic hubris was so great that they fielded NO ships designed specifically for battle. That is yet another criminally stupid decision made by leadership that should end careers. The Dominion War era Galaxy turned out to be a beast of a ship. Turns out when you kit the Galaxy's spaceframe out for war, it makes a hell of a good warfighting system. Starfleet's mistake was not having something like that onhand already before the Dominion War started. If you're worried about appearances, don't send the ships kitted out for battle on first contact missions (though I would not say this is a hard and fast rule. You don't know who you're going to meet, some civilizations might disrespect anything they perceive as weakness and encourage them to fight, where they'd respect the site of an obviously highly capable combat ship and be less likely to fight). Send the ones kitted out for exploration then, if things go wrong, bring out your combat ships if you need them.
@@jamesp8164 space is dangrouse, so to is life. Starfleet ant a military, it has that function, but force of arms is not starfleet. A exploration vessel has a place for familys
They were retired as a unit because they started making Captains and First Officers look bad with their ability to survive a firefight or get through a bout of fisticuffs with their shirts on.
Galaxy class was more inline with Gene Roddenberrys ethos for Star Trek. Exploring and meeting others, rarely fighting them. It was an exploratory cruise liner, which was not really intended to be used for front line combat on a regular basis. It was not a military ship so much as a diplomatic flagship. A vessel of first contact and science with reasonable defensive weaponry. "Yesterday's Enterprise" made reference to the absurd idea of having families on a warship. Galaxy class was intended to represent the pinnacle of long range exploration and comfort. Which is what it was. It had plot armour and weapons, if they weren't strong enough, there was a different plot answer. What went wrong was that audiences wanted more action, more adventure and more threats. Something that the Galaxy class ethos was less suited to. The nature of the show chanced deeply with DS9, then with Voyager and Enterprise. Lastly with Discovery. Less and less about talking and more about fighting. Star Trek has gone from a show about exploring and talking to exploring and killing.
@ironduke0775 I wouldn't agree that the Roddenberry concept was boring, but I would agree that it's implementation with TNG at times could be. My biggest objection to the implementation of this ethos is that it was largely not believable. The idea that humans could and would better themselves is an optimistic view of the future that has value, but TNG took it so far that some of the characters almost weren't human anymore. There is the dark side of human nature. Roddenberry thought we would eventually make ourselves perfect, and that is something that absolutely will not happen. Humans will still have their flaws and failings that will trip them up as they strive to be better. DS9 was so good because it explored that side of things, and thus it rang far more true and, as a practical matter, since the crew was on a space station they didn't have the luxury of TNG or VOY to magic up some answer to a conundrum and sail away from it. They had to live with every choice they made and those choices had real consequences.
Here is a counterpoint to your argument. The Galaxy class is the Federation's primier exploration, scientific and diplomatic ship. The reason they have civilians on these ships is not for families. Keiko wasn't even married to O'Brien until later and she was a botanist. These are civilians contracted to Starfleet much like World's human brother. Basically it is a small scale Yorktown station in the Kelvin timeline meant as a showcase so other races would be attracted to join the Federation. What was the class of the Enterprise-C? The Ambassador class. The Federation has several concurrent border conflicts during TNG yet the Galaxy class wasn't sent to the Cardassian border war for example. Being the Enterprise weird shit statistically happens more with ships if that name. Heck in Insurrection Picard and crew were deliberately sent on diplomatic assignments during the Dominion War to strengthen alliances and diplomatic ties like the Gorn.
The Enterprise is the star of the Federation, and tends to stay out of Wars to preserve the ideals of the Federation. (As mentioned in Discovery in regards to Pike having not fought in the Four-Year War with the Klingons despite being captain of the Enterprise.)
exactly a Galaxy with a couple of things worked out could be perfect first move the bridge in the middle of the ship and have a smaller bridge in the saucer..so when the saucer separate the bridge crew just stay in the bridge without moving at all .. add a warp core in the saucer make it a whole Vessel like a Prometheus...in that way fist you can use both ships for tactical purpose or the saucer with civilians can go away safely then put all the shielding technology you have ..regenerative multiphasic multispectrum shield ...a second layer of shield over the hull ... ablative armour and polarising hull...i want to see something pass through two layer of shield a armour and the polarization hull...and while the first shield regenerate the second one protect and so you have almost unlimited shield because is possible the main shield regenerate before the second fail...who allow the second to regenerate as well
No Starfleet ship was a match for a Dominion ship at the beginning. The Captain of the Odyssey even says how they've they've run the shields through their entire spectrum, but could not stop the the Dominion weapons. Starfleet ships are tough though, she did take a major pounding before being kamakizied. There were NO unnecessary civilians on board Odyssey during her fight with the Dominion, they were ALL off loaded at DS9 (DS9: The Jem Hadar). Even the Defiant got it ass kicked in its first encounter with t he Dominion. The Defiant class was the only class to be shown to able to stand up to Dominion firepower and to destroy Dominion ships. It really wasn't until after DS9:The Ship, where the crew of DS9 salvage a wrecked Dominion ship that we see Starfleet starting to hold up against Dominion assaults. Presumably Starfleet tore the ship apart and learned how to modify theirs and Klingon weapons and defense systems.
@@LoreReloaded Even a Sovereign might have lost under those circumstances....Less likely,but than again..the Jem´Hadar might have used Kamikaze methods earlier in that engagement..Ok..a Sovereign WOULD have lost if under Rikers command...
Weapons were never a main focus to starfleet until the borg. Shields, scanners, and speed. Oh and radiation. Rule of star trek. Do not give humans enough time to make up a radiation to use on you.
IMO the Galaxy class is a symbol of failed Federation policy. I've come to believe that the idea behind the Galaxy Class was that the Federation believed that future wars would be settled by the diplomats. The treaty of Algeron and the Kitomer Accords were so successful that the Federation council decided that this was the way to go. With that in mind they built a handful of Galaxy Class battleships with the idea being that if a war went hot you could park a couple of these in the warzone and scare enemies to the negotiating table. In the meanwhile the ships would serve on deep space exploration missions. Having families onboard was probably an excuse to make the crews happier on long term missions, so that they wouldn't have to be separated from their families for years at a time. Having a ship full of civilians would also act as a deterrent, making the enemy think twice before blowing one up (yeah right...) The problem is it didn't work. The ships, while impressive, proved to be inadequate at fighting multiple ships at the same time so they needed close support. Although the Galaxy class ships were fast, the support vessels would have been older classes and couldn't keep up. So in a war zone the enemy could just give them a wide birth and ignore them. And to quote the behemoth principal "Commanders cannot use so called Super Weapons effectively, because they simply cannot afford to lose one." These ships were supposed to have a lifespan of 150 years or more, and they lost the Yamato within what? 1-2 years of it's launch with all hands? The Cardassian border wars were settled at the negotiating table, but despite the diplomats being proud of themselves the treaty was probably fairly lob-sided to the Cardassians. Many starfleet personnel we meet show clear dissatisfaction with how the war was resolved. The Federation made a large DMZ as they always do, but left many colonies abandoned inside the zone. With the Federation fighting a defensive war, the Cardassians probably took everything they wanted in the conflict and then sued for peace. And afterwards they blatantly violated the terms of the treaty at every opportunity by arming their civilians in the DMZ and framing Federation colonists and Bajorans for acts of terrorism to instigate conflict. The feeling of abandonment by the Federation colonies eventually resulting in the creation of the Maquis. Since the era when the Federation council decided on this policy of "Show force, then negotiate away the problem" the Federation had grown in size significantly while Starfleet's combat ready fleet was probably the same size it had been a century earlier. So they had too few ships to defend the Federation, let alone deploy to a warzone. All the while the majority of the top of the line exploration fleet was out and about beyond federation borders and of little use in a conflict. Ultimately it took the Borg threat to kick Starfleet and the Federation council out of it's complacency.
darkalman That’s a pretty good way to sum it up. Utopian peace was the goal of the Federation and yet they, like so many pacifists in current day, do not understand that as long as the potential exists for others to not follow with your peaceful ideals you must have an extremely toothy bite to strike them down before they do so to you.
Not in the earliest encounter . It was heavily damaged and disabled in it's first fight with the Dominion. They were with the exception of Kira and Odo captured. Later the Defiant had plot er I mean Ablative armor. Imagine a galaxy with it's shields and ablative armor.
Lore's videos are entertaining, but his perception of the Galaxy and Nebula class ships being underwhelming and weak compared to it's contemporaries shows his lack of understanding of the TNG/Ds9 era of Trek. It's been stated that both ships were cutting edge and, aside from the odd unkown alien of the week encounter, were only rivaled by the Romulan D'deridex and Klingon Vorcha at the time. I don't get how you can watch "The Wounded" and come away with the idea that the Nebula Class ship was underpowered. It's almost as if he is going for the Skip Bayless of Star Trek strategy, and coming up with takes that are so preposterous that it will clickbait us into clicking on his videos lol. Well it's working I guess.
@@LoreReloaded When the odyssey met the dominion the federation shields could not stop the dominion weapons? Would this not effect any federation ship? So can we not assume this 1st encounter would have went the same way no matter what class was sent? This was obviously overcome later so I am not sure this particular incident could mean much.
Malcolm Xavier - “sorry, got to leave my post and go back to my quarters to take a shit.” “really? I just use a diaper.” “As a blah-blah-ian, all waste is excreted through my breath” “but your breath smells like roses?” “I only eat flowers.”
@@patrickmccurry1563 true. It's an alternate history book to an extent. In the book, it's legal due to every major country doing it. I should point out however that spaceships can be several miles long, and have millions of civilians onboard. The ships are military in nature, but have a far larger civilian population. The goal of the various governments is to deter attacks on ships with a potential humanitarian backlash
The Enterprise D would be similar to an Aircraft Carrier. Carriers are floating cities with many departments and amenities. Modern carriers have gyms, computer centers, MWR lounges, barbers, a shoppette, etc.
Well, after the whale incident of Star Trek IV, maybe the Council felt it would be safer if they kept some dolphins aboard...you know, for good measure and as a show of good faith.
And the #1 species was so intelligent that they made sure humans didn't know about them in case humans were assimilated. Borg invade Earth, they ignore the mice that just scurry through their systems...and......
Could we sum up the galaxy class as the ship that represented the dream of the Federation? Peaceful vessel that represents what the federation is while showing that we can defend our selfs if need be?
The Galaxy class was idealized peaceful purpose, but could be a force to be reckoned with. The Sovereign class was the Federation showing that if necessary they can easily bring a ship of war that doesn't take any crap into existence very quickly.
The Sovereign was Starfleet reacting the Borg and Romulans by producing something much closer to an outright warship. The Odyssey moves back towards the multi-purpose nature of the Galaxy class, but holds onto the lessons learned and has a greater emphasis on combat than the Galaxy did.
Nexus to be fair two of the Galaxies that were lost had the *severe* disadvantage of their shields being rendered COMPLETELY ineffective: Enterprise-D and Odyssey.
i saw the Galaxy class as the tank of Federation battle groups. They can take attacks like a champ. Especially after they got updated for combat during the dominion war. It probably helps that they are so large.
Besides the sovereign-class the Galaxy class is my second favorite ship as far as design. I'm one of those that have the actual blueprints deck-by-deck blueprints. And I've actually opened them up and looked at them. Very cool the layout and the idea behind the Galaxy class as an exploratory vessel. However I agree with you in that the Galaxy class was not meant for warring. It is a ship of exploration and peace not for combat.
I like the pacifist nature of The Federation. Not Starfleet, The Federation. The Enterprise was not intended for war, at all. It had weapons, but only to defend it's self long enough to run away. Later on it was forced into war, a roll it was never intended for and it did well because it was such a well designed ship. You are forgetting something very key to this entire thing. Starfleet is not JUST a military. It is the exploratory arm of the Federation. It's NASA, The Navy, Spac-X, and any number of civilian organizations all rolled into one. The most common main characters we see in Star Trek are military because that is who all the interesting stuff happens too. But star fleet also had Archaeologists, Biophysicists, Astronomers, Surveyors, Communications control specialists (people who's entire job it was to deploy and maintain Navigation and communications beacons, the cable guy of the future. Oh yeah, that is why the Galaxy could deploy mines. Because the military got their hands in the cookie jar and decided that if they were going to design a ship that could drop beacons, they may as well put some mines on board and eject them from the same ports. That's my theory, and i like it ) Architects, chemists, Programmers, Medical doctors (not combat medics) Quantum physicists, Subspace...ologists.. the list can get really long okay, just seriously. The point is, Starfleet is not (or more precisely, should not be considered) a Military. The Galaxy Class we know and love as the Enterprise was designed for deep space, exploration on a grand scale. That mission was not a military mission. It was a Humanitarian one. Other Galaxy Class's had these missions as well i'm sure, but Starfleet was not stupid enough to leave a deep space Exploratory vessel be Handled by a crew that was not military trained. They were not about to design a ship that could not defend it's self from everything from the radiation, or god forbid near miss of wondering black hole, to a photon topedo. And they were not about to design a vessel that would not have multiple redundancies in the event of damage, or attack. By design the Galaxy Class ship as perfect in every way it could be perfect for it's mission. (which again was not a military one) But let's address how capable it was as a Military Vessel, because Starfleet does have a military arm, those refits you discussed? They are more like alternate outfits. So the Enterprise was outfitted for deep space exploration, but Starfleet also outfitted some for combat. because , again Starfleet DOES have a military arm, Later on when war became a greater threat, Starfleet just REFITTED Galaxy class ships designed for Deep space exploration into their Combat variants. (Which almost certainly caused technical problems. one does not just reroute power from a chem lab to a phaser bank installed in it's place.) It's actually pretty cool to watch Star Trek and watch as the military arm of Starfleet slowly takes over. At the start of TNG i'd say the Military and Humanitarian arms of Starfleet are pretty balanced. but as the series' pushed forward, the military began to take over until you end up with stupid ships like the Dauntless. Sorry, that ship is stupid.
To be fair, hindsight is 20/20,and when the Galaxy class was in development the only real threats were the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians and from what I've seen, a Galaxy class ship could hold it's own against a Klingon Vorcha cruiser, or a Cardassian Galor class ship. The Romulan De'deridex Warbird is hard to make a call on and again to be fair, the Romulans had just emerged from isolation at the start of TNG. It's only when the Borg threat emerged that Starfleet had to go back to the drawing board on literally everything (i.e. Defiant Class). Granted the Federation is guilty of pacifistic hubris but that's Gene's vision, and to tie back to what you said about the Dominion war aftermath, that pacifism would allow the Federation to slowly return to it's roots of peaceful exploration and scientific discovery for the most part, without losing their way to a Military state like the Cardassians did, it would not of been easy if you count what happened in the Voyager post season 7 novels, but it would be possible.
Rolando Gamez - a 1v1 with 2 ships of near equal capability is always a bad idea, win or lose. Damage and losses are always possible and being out maneuvered is a possibility. The Romulans may have had a superior ship, yet they do not play fair - ever. Also, an extended battle offers the enemy more chances to analyze your tactics and technology. Another reason to always run unless you have an overwhelming advantage.
When it was in development, the Romulans were still in a prolonged period of isolation (at least according to early TNG, a few lines of dialog later, particularly on DS9 as relates to Sisko's past career assignments seem to retcon that a bit) Personally, I think the better in universe explanation would be for the Galaxy class not to draw the dangerous assignments (ie. other ships are assigned to the missions dealing with hostile situations, while the Galaxy class goes and catalogs nebulas or something like that, but the demands of a dramatic TV show prohibit such a depiction)
I think you left out an important part about the galaxy class here when you said that it didn't measure up to new threats and referenced the Odyssey being destroyed by the dominion. The weapons being used by the Jem'hadar in that battle were phased polaron beams and the odyssey could not modulate it's shields to the weapon frequency, as stated in the TV episode. They were essentially shooting the odyssey with it's shields down that entire battle. I find it weird you left that part out when using the odyssey being destroyed to make your case when you later go on to explain how the shields on a galaxy class are it's strongest feature (borderline OP) and without them the ship is somewhat defenceless. After that ship was destroyed starfleet updated the shields on it's ships to defend against dominion weapons much to Weyoun's surprise (stated by Weyoun) when he attacked DS9. If the Odyssey had the proper shield frequency for the dominion weapons I suspect a fight between it and 3 jem'hadar attack ships would have gone differently. The example you used would be equivalent to saying the defiant was obsolete because it was destroyed by a Breen energy weapon star fleet never encountered. Basically the Odyssey was destroyed with a plot device, much (almost exactly) like the Enterprise D was.
I should point out that the Odyssey was losing so badly because its shields were ineffective against the J'em Hadar disruptors (something that also resulted in the defiant's easy defeat in the search parts one and two) and, as we all know, if anything hits a galaxy class starship without (effective) shields then either the starboard power coupling goes down or the warp core breaches. In my opinion if the shields had been effective then the Odyssey could have defeated the J'em Hadar fighters (assuming they didn't use suicide runs).
Precisely. The Galaxy class doesn't suck because someone beat it once. They just encountered an enemy who used tactics and exploited weaknesses they were currently unaware of. This can happen to anyone, and the only thing to do about it is figure out what went wrong and fix it. If there's one thing the Star Trek universe emphasises, it's the ability of humans to adapt to failure and come out stronger. THAT was the point of blowing up an almighty Galaxy Class. Show the threat the Dominion poses, setting the stage for the heroes to rise to the challenge. Good storytelling comes first after all.
Not to mention that later in the war, after the Federation had learnt how to adapt to the Jem'Hadar's polaron phasers , the Galaxy-class became a nigh unstoppable powerhouse.
Captain Keogh could have left The Saucer Section docked at DS9 for station defense. The Battle Bridge Star Drive Section of The U.S.S. Odyssey NCC-71820 would have shown The Dominion that The UFP and Starfleet Command was not going to be a pushover.
The Odyssey wasnt trying to destroy the dominion ships. It was fighting defensively likly with phaser not on max. The fact it got destroyed was because the captain underestimated how long he could last against the Dominion ships and also their ferocity and determination in battle.
In "Encounter at Farpoint," Picard notes his consternation that Starfleet gave him a ship with children aboard--thus implying that not all starships have a civilian population aboard. It's even possible that not all Galaxy Class ships had children aboard. Moreover, the Galaxy Class was intended to be separated in emergency situations, so that civilians could flee to relative or total safety aboard the saucer (or even theoretically aboard the stardrive section, if something happened to the saucer itself). Originally the show's creators planned to do saucer separations on a regular basis for precisely this reason, and it was mentioned in many episodes throughout the series. However, the expense of filming these visuals meant that saucer separations only ever occurred three times in the whole series (two of which were in the first season). But that's budget constraints, and we can use our imaginations to assume that, from an in-world perspective, saucer separations were a viable safety feature that occurred whenever needed. The mission of the Enterprise was deep space exploration, interstellar diplomacy, and missions of relief, support, medicine, or science. The vast majority of its specific assignments were peaceful, with no threat posed to the ship. Additionally, in anticipation of any probable threats to the ship, civilians could be offloaded at a starbase, which the Enterprise visited regularly (albeit usually in between episodes). The Enterprise is essentially on a frontier mission, and it makes perfect sense--and is keeping in tradition with human practices throughout history--for families to accompany Starfleet crew members. It says something about the Federation's commitment to its principles, it's a huge quality-of-life boost for those aboard, and it's an incredible learning experience and adventure and privilege for those aboard. Separately, the Galaxy Class does indeed have twelve phaser strips. I had the model as a kid. The twelfth one is hiding on the top of the stardrive section; you can only see it when the ship is separated.
The Galaxy Class' shields were so incredibly powerful there wasn't another ship in the Milky Way that couldn't blast through them in three shots (unless the script needed four or five beats before Picard could talk them down or Data could technobabble them down).
I think a lot of your examples suffer from the "Worf" problem. Writers would show how strong a new enemy was by having them throw Worf around. Same with the Galaxy class.
Good analysis. As a person who has worked on ships, l say that the on board gym is always in demand, and on Star Trek, every version with a holodeck , those were always in demand too. So it would be logical to have both.
Flaw: The Odyssey wasn't standing up to the Gem Hadar fighters because they were able to bypass its shields, which they were only able to do because plot. But even looking at that, this isn't a flaw in the Galaxy-class design because -any- Alpha quadrant power would suffer the same thing. It wasn't long after that all Starfleet ships had their shields upgraded to defend against that particular attack.
I think the dominion stomped the Odyssey because they had been studying the alpha quadrant from a distance. There was an episode when they just showed up on the station and told them as much.
Agree! I doubt Fanboy Favorite Akira or Sovereign would have done any better, with the same shields, and neither would not have survived a suicide hit to to Engineering!
NCC-1701/NCC-1701A - We're peaceful explorers, that can handle ourselves in a fight. NCC-1701B - We're afluent peaceful explorers that can handle ourselves in a fight. NCC-1701C - We're peaceful explorers that have peace treaties with most of the races that could oppose us. NCC-1701D - We're peaceful explorers and diplomats that can defend ourselves if need be. NCC-1701E - OH SHIT, THE BORG.
Lore Reloaded I know that I put it in a joking manner... but I would myself argue that the families seemed to be used unconsciously as shields.... hoping that species that they met would be less likely to be hostile if they saw children, or younglings or puppies (don't know correct term for non human children) as they may believe "No one would bring their young to a fight"
They are not civilians. They are public opinion modulators. If you blow up a Galaxy class the people gets grumpy and Section 31 wins a political leverage to deal more openly with the crisis (by proxies of course). This way you can do what needs to be done and in peace time you enjoy the benefits of a hippie like population.
I agree with your assessment of the Galaxy class. Clearly was not designed to be a combat vessel, but it was powerful enough to jump into that type of role when needed. Keep it up my friend.
the Oberth has 3 states 1) assembly line fresh 2) on it's way to it's death 3) exploding(as seen on TV, movies, books, etc), what we refer to as it's natural state at this point
Dominion was using some kind of phased poleron beam weapon to penetrate The Odysseys shields. Something the Federation never encountered before. They rotated shield nutation though the entire spectrum but non of the frequencys were effective thus they diverted shield power to weapons essentially fighting without shields. The Odyssey couldn't adapt fast enough to this new weapon and was heavily damaged and left them open to a kamikaze run because they had dropped thier shields. I would wager that any powerful Alpha Quadrant ship of the era would have fared about the same or worse then the Galaxy class. Obviously the federation adapted to this phased poleron beam as Federation Shields did function against Dominion weapons in subsequent engagements.
One thing to keep in mind is that within the ST universe, it appears that for most races, shields or similar energy barriers are the primary means of defense. Very rarely have we seen a ship where the hull itself doesn't crack like an egg at the first torpedo or phaser blast. The Odyssey immediately ran into weaponry that completely ignored the shields and few ships, regardless of race, would not be in a state of panic. While we see rare instances where a ship's hull is fairly tough (The Borg, the odd "neutronium alloy", etc) for the most part ship design across the quadrant usually follows a glass cannon approach.
lol yes the oberth is by far the most retarded and pointless design i have ever seen in the star trek universe. The writers obviously just created that design to quickly add depth to a federation that was supposed to consist of thousands of star ships. It seems that star fleet is only consisting of human ships especially in the post united earth era and modern federation times. The show should have done a better job on the other founding members of the federation at least by displaying star fleet ships that are at least designed by federation founding species. I perfectly can see the various ships being manned and piloted by multiple species but to say that they would leave star ship design entirely up to humans is very shallow and weak planning.
I really do like the Oberth Class. Its a Warp powered sensor pack! I really do wish they had shown some of the fan variants, like the torpedo boat and transport versions! What it isn't and never meant to be is a combat vessel! That's like criticicing my Mazda for being a crappy tank!
The Galaxy class did see a refit, look at the second half of TNG, more phaser strips were added onto the warp nacelle and pylons along with updated torpedo launchers able to fire quantum torpedos kinda like the Lakota refit for the Excelsior. Edit: the extra phaser strips were added only to the nacelle tops, not the pylons, also Dominion war galaxy classes didn’t have the optional science facilities installed instead they were loaded with additional ground forces and medical facilities. They were used as battleships and fleet hospitals as needed
NINTENDOSH they modified the torpedo launchers themselves and upgraded the shields and armor, but the Lakota was the test bed for the refit of the Excelsior line
7:40 The reference to the Galaxy Class having twelve phaser arrays is given in the ST: TNG Technical Manual. The first edition reference is in chapter 11.1 (Tactical Systems / Phasers) on page 123.
4x little ones near the aft torpedo launcher (2 above, 2 below) 2x little ones on the secondary hull facing aft just next to where the saucer separates 2x medium sized ones on the outside of the warp nacelle struts. 1x medium sized one on the bottom of the secondary hull 2x big main arrays on the saucer (1x hidden medium sized one on the secondary hull where it connects to the saucer)
Hey lets not underestimate them civvies, while they were busy being meatshields being assimilated or killed off by boarding parties the starfleet crew members could work on retaking the ship! It was secretly a Section 31 idea! Put defenseless people on board so during boarding you just throw civs at them so starfleet can work without problems! XD I still question the Saucer's warp capability. I said it last time, and I'll say it again (Especially after the in-warp saucer sep clip we had in the video toady) I wonder if the Saucer can sustain a warp field if it's already been created by the drive section. Once separated the saucer probably has the power to sustain an already created warpfield, just doesn't have enough power to do that initial jump/acceleration to warp on it's own. Makes sense imo. Can probably only sustain low warp and only for a couple of hours but it would be a nice feature. And the limitation of "It can't make it's own only sustain one already made" explains away instances like Generations where if it had warp it should have warped away since it didn't have the capability to jump without the drive section. On top of that if the saucer for the Galaxy and Nebula were the same, then we can assume that the Nebula would be able to hit a higher top speed as its warp field would be smaller, with the added generators in the saucer section from the galaxy design it could help stabilize a warp field to increase speed by point whatever percent lol. (Which would explain why a Nebula in voyager was able to catch up to the Prometheus, because of that thar left over Galaxy Class saucer design addons.) Who knows though maybe I'm just making this up as I go along. Still an interesting concept though. Would support your patreon if I had monies. I aint on no fixed income I'm on a broke income. XD Though Lore, I must say, you seem like the kind of person I could debate with for hours over the technical details of trek. Keep doing what you're doing, you provide me a great many ideas to contemplate about treknology and design.
According to the master systems display the Galaxy saucer didnt have a warp core, nor did it have any kind of warp nacelles. I think the argument they used was that the saucer somehow maintained enough momentum to stay at warp speed until reaching a starbase, yknow, because they are completely forgetting 3 things: A: Warp drive doesnt work by Newtonian physics since the ship doesnt move through space, its sitting still in its own self contained bubble, and the bubble moves, but the ship itself doesnt have any momentum. B: Even if they did have some magic momentum that allowed them to stay at FTL speeds without a warp drive, they would have extreme time dilation effects, in fact I have no clue what happens if you travel faster than light, since Im pretty sure at this point we only know what happens with time dilation at sub-light speeds. C: Even if all that somehow wasnt a problem, claiming a saucer can somehow coast to a starbase with enough momentum implies that there is some sort of friction involved, which there really isnt (at least not in an amount that makes a difference). Its space. Its empty. If you sail in a direction, youre gonna keep going until you hit something (with the exception of gravity, but at FTL speeds youre likely well beyond any escape velocity anyway) So, that said, the Nebula probably didnt have a secondary warp core in the saucer either. Also my impression was always that the Nebula and Galaxy classes were generally capable of the same warp speed, though the Nebula would be more economic, since the deciding factor for speed would be the frequency at which you can fold up space and put it behind you, and with a nearly identical, though rearranged, warp drive that should be the same. The Nebula would only use less energy for the same travel due to a smaller warp field, but thats a negligible difference probably. Also: Welcome to the club. Im delivering newspapers, which earns absolute shit in terms of money. Because of that Im supposed to get social welfare in addition to that, because what I have now is clearly below any living standard (and I have to live from it), but german bureaucracy being what it is, processing a form takes an ungodly amount of time. Yknow, its not like i really badly need the money for food and other stuff, right?
Actually I never said it had a second warp core. As we all know a warp core isn't needed for warp its just because of the massive amount of power required. We also know warp nacelles aren't required for warp as we see many species achieve warp without them. (See: Andorians, Cardassians, and Klingon BoP) It's possible the warp field would start to decay after separation and the fusion reactors onboard the saucer can sustain a decaying warp field long enough to warp a few light years away.
Only because Cardassians or Klingons dont make their nacelles as prominent or use different setups for their warp engines doesnt mean they dont operate on the same principle or dont require the same amount of power. Look at the ring-shaped warp engine on 22nd century vulcan ships for example. I can well imagine that the entire tail of a Galor is essentially a single warp nacelle, or the two dorsal superstructures on the Bird of Prey are essentially also just cut-down nacelles. More Federation-style nacelles that are far apart at the rear may have some efficiency benefit to them, but evidently there are plenty of other shapes and arrangements for warp engines that can work. But a Galaxy saucer has literally no warp drive system whatsoever, neither a antimatter reactor (aka warp core) to supply the needed power, nor any type of warp nacelle or anything else that could use energy to make a warp field, so it literally should not be able to maintain any warp speed on its own. Ever.
chill out, its a fictional tv show. Also the tail of the Galor isn't a warp engine, its been well established it's in the blades. Anyways it's just a theory. Nothing says they can't have some sort of warp field generators in the saucer, they don't have to be nacelles, and it doesn't need to be an antimatter reactor. A subspace bubble (Like the type of a warp field) can be created without warp coils or antimatter.
the galaxy class wasnt designed as a warship. it could defend itself well, but it was a jack of all trades vessel that could do exploration, diplomacy, assist with natural disasters, etc. it was also designed before ablative armor became the norm, so its defenses were all in its shields, just like in all of trek up until that point. in major conflicts up until then mass produced ships like the excelsior and miranda class were used.
I still remember that one oculus rift walkthrough of a VR Galaxy class, it’s absolutely gargantuan. Just the main shuttle bay alone is cavernous. It blows my mind that they were mass produced heavily in the Dominion war. Future building technology or not, that’s a massive thing to build. Let alone putting in that 1000 man crew.
The major design flaw with the Galaxy class and just about all Starfleet ships is the fact the bridge is so exposed. If aliens really wanted to destroy/disable the ship they could concentrate their fire and destroy the bridge. Imagine that Bird of Prey who had the shield frequency shot one torpedo or disrupter blast to the bridge, game over. It's like they count on their enemies being gentlemanly towards them rather than fighting for their lives. The bridge should be deep in the center of the ship, I imagine where the "battle bridge" is. Why have two bridges? The Battle Bridge should just be the bridge.
I loved mudds statement "There is so many ways to destroy this ship, it should be listed as a feature" .. I think the battle bridge was an attempt to show it's a peaceful ship first and only last resort option
That actually happens in Enterprise. In the episode in the future (due to Archer having brain time parasites) and the Xindi attack the last surviving humans. They actually cut the bridge deck completely off the ship leaving it completely disabled.
It's likely got more to do with Naval tradition than anything else. That being said the majority of syfy does the same thing. That being said I like the Galaxy class its modularity makes it a very versatile ship. Also when compared to a BC-304 the 304 has multiple bridges, redundancies, and can take quite a pounding with its shields down.
Dos not matter, star trek weapons are in the megaton yield. Without shields or a blade of hull armer most weapons go through hull plating like a hot knife through butter.
not that you asked but i would recommend ryzen for a render machine. the high core count helps even though the chips are slightly slower than intel. a minute or two diffence wont be noticed but saving 200 dollars will. especially with the high price of graphics cards
Phaser strips for the stock Galaxy-Class Starship: 2 on the saucer; dorsal strip, ventral strip. 1 Hidden between the saucer and engineering hulls and only usable when ship is serparated. 2 at the top rear of the connecting neck between the two hulls. 2 flanking the aft torpedo launcher and 2 directly opposite on the underside. 2 on the bottom of the nacelle pylons where they curve up. The final one is on the dorsal of the engineering section. Grand total: 12 phaser strips.
The Galaxy Class starship has always held a place in my heart because that's the ship I grew up watching. I was in awe (not in a good way) when the Enterprise D was destroyed in Generations. But I was satisfied with the Enterprise E's design (even with it's fluctuating specs lol).
I don't like the Starfleet pacifism that so recklessly had them sending civilians into harm's way, but it definitely made sense for the general arc of 24th century Trek, as they gradually stepped back from their hubris and took Q's warnings to heart.
I agree with you for the most part regarding the Galaxy I'm glad to see that you brought in the Dominion war error up-armored ship. I always enjoyed the spaciousness of the ship and the amenities that it offered is always kind of nice to see how far they came compared to the original series
lets not pretend in the prime timeline that whales wouldnt be significant to starfleet. i mean come on theres a bird of prey on the floor of San Francisco Bay. captain there be whales!
that damned treaty with the Romulans did limit cloaking tech because in typical starfleet logic, lets give up the super tactical advantage to remain at peace 15 minutes longer
OptimusWombat There is the fact that the one time Starfleet tried building a cloaking device they ended up with a phase cloak device, a tech used only by another specie on screen, the Voth.
Thanks to you Lore reloaded I spent $122 on an eaglemoss 30th anniversary collectors bundle of the Enterprise D. When i decide i wanted an Enterprise D model Eaglemoss was the first to pop up thanks to this video. I’ll let you know what i think of it when i get in the mail.
HOW DARE YE HAVE AN OPINION THAT GOES AGAINST EVERYTING I KNOW TO BE TRUE!...HAHAHA, JK. The Galaxy class was flawed but will forever be what I think of first as Starfleets capitol ship.
Mid-24th Century Starfleet is a good example of what your military looks like when you put Liberal Arts professors in charge. It's like a college campus in space! There were just slightly fewer people getting offended and triggered by everything.
And Cardassia is an example of putting Conservatives in charge. Science and innovation as an afterthought. Ruling through brutal authoritarian repression, using a secret police to convict those who speak out against lies, and a court system that has already decided on the verdict and punishment before even hearing the evidence. A military that can only be propped up through the brutal exploitation of their neighbors, that ends with a military uprising forcing you out, and inviting your mortal enemies in as allies for protection. I’ll gladly take the peaceful exploration of science and truth over your Orwellian wet dream.
someguy37 you mean Gene Roddenberry's utopian dream that is Star Trek? The Liberal dream is the Trek utopia, while your nutter Conservative dream is the dystopia of Walking Dead. Every man for himself, no government telling you what to do, and everyone has all the guns they want.
@@nicolasbazzano2028 I am not stupid enough to believe in Utopia regardless of liberal or conservative. If I am a nutter conservative that is a pretty low bar for crazy. You made a smart ass remark and I responded in kind. You came off as another butthurt liberal, and so I had some fun with it. You looked alot more like you were picking a side and defending it rather than merely pointing out the opposite side of the coin of extreme political spectrum. Of the two extremes one currently has control over the education sector and entertainment. The other is a absolute fringe minority, that holds no power and Is openly ridiculed.
about the computer core..... the galaxy has 3 computer cores, 2 on the saucer, and one in the stardrive section. in the binar episode, they stole the enterprise because at the time the enterprise was the most advanced computer system in the known sector with the most storage space, this was due to its 3 cores.
The Galaxy-class was a Starfleet vessel first introduced in the late 2350s. It was one of the largest and most powerful Federation starship classes of its time, with many serving in the Dominion War. Starfleet had previously operated another type of Galaxy-class starship in the 2250s. (TNG: "The Ensigns of Command")
Maybe Starfleet thought that being with your family might bring better performance from the crew, but I do have to agree with you about how they practically endangered their lives in the process, even with a galaxy class ship
Well, there is one huge advantage to the Galaxy class having all of that room for accommodating civilians and families once the reality of war sets in. It now has plenty of room to accommodate marines.
I understand that the Pacifistic nature of the Enterprise D makes the TNG era look bad, but personally, I love it. I don’t care what anyone else thinks, I love it and that’s that. Great topic, great video, great everything. Keep up the good work, and I can’t wait for the upgrade you’re getting. See ya, Lore Reloaded
Thanks for taking a fair look at the Galaxy Class ships. They can be powerful beasts, or tame kittens depending on what Star Fleet was thinking with that model at the time. While they are not my fav class, I do like them for the fact that they are a great type to fit out into whatever you want with them.
You were absolutely right about the families and the strength of the ship. All federation vessels should be as powerful as they can be and run by trained officers.
Well you're right on the idea that the bridge stations could change with the needs of the episode. LCARS computer consoles were designed to be able to be re-purposed for any ship function. This happens a few times in TNG. But it happens most explicitly when Worf reconfigured an engineering console on the defiant in DS9 to act as a helm because the bridge was damaged or over run or some such.
He is my take on the Galaxy class it was designed as a long range exploration cruiser with it strong shields it gave it the option to run rather then fight. Which if you refer back to the very first episode this is what Picard tried to do with "Q". It was never meant to be strictly a warship, but a explorer.
The reason the Oddysey was so badly beaten was because at that time star fleets shields were completely ineffective that's also why the enterprise d was destroyed the duras sisters penetrated the shields and inflicted heavy damage to the engineering section.
The Enterprise D was launched in 2363 and the Dominion war was in 2373-2375. It's fair to say the Galaxy Class was due a major refit, not that it would have made much difference. In the first encounter the shields were effectively useless anyway. The Odyssey lasting as long as it did with no shielding was actually pretty impressive against three ships.
I wish there had been a proper shipyard episode in DS9 so we could have seen how they teched up to take on the dominion and also get to see the new ships like the akira etc. great video as always matey
Like when the Dominion says something like "Starfleet shields always proved useless against our weapons" and Dukat respond by "I learned it to be prudent to never underestimate Starfleet engineer". At the start of the war, Dominion weapons would just go right through, which explains why 3 small attack ships had it so easy.
Thanks for another great video! I agree that the Galaxy was the pinnacle of Federation peacetime hubris. I how the Ambassador class faired in that regard as well.
What I always thought was take advantage of the modular nature of the detachable saucer section. Have a saucer that was effectively a battlestation or weapons platform - nothing else, no crew except for maintenance access, minimal life support (or uses drive sections life support) ect. It's fitted to a Galaxy's secondary hull when needed, swapping out the 'nice' friendly peacetime hull, and relying on the battle bridge, warp core and shields (although it may have extra shielding and armour) ect of the drive section. And then it just rains down massive long range barrages of photons at range, sort of like a souped up version of the homewold missile destroyer. Imagine a fleet manoeuvre where as an opening salvo hundreds of photons rain down on the enemy fleet as they approach for engagement. And while fitting it with an arsenal of phasers is tempting and useful, it's still just one ship with one set of shields and can be destroyed as such, if you can withstand the fire. At close range it would be priority target number one of the enemy fleet, and it needs the power for all the extra phasers (secondary reactors?). Still some more phasers would be handy for missile defense and eliminating fighters and corvettes, say double the number of phasers wouldn't tax the systems too much. Using it as a missile truck/artillery barrage is a better use of it's abilities. The saucer could hold thousands of photon torpedoes (not quantum torpedoes, they are 'expensive' and in limited supply, and space is not an issue) and dozens of launchers for simultaneous launch of large salvos. Plus the massive computer systems of the Galaxy could handle the processing of all that targeting information. It could have similar firepower to DS9 (which had 5000 photon torpedoes), but in a mobile package. It could also be disguised to look like a regular saucer section to sensors, with dampening fields hiding the arsenal if the extra expense was warranted in peacetime. If expecting trouble (say going to Romulan space on a piece of unconfirmed intelligence) it could be swapped into the drive section and potential adversaries would never know what they were facing. Or just keep them in reserve in Federation facilities without the extra build requirements of *Q-ship systems in case of a hot war. Also since they are just a standard hull design without a warp core, navigation, sensors or other complicated components they are easy to build. Since the same saucer is used for the Nebula class saucer Starfleet obviously has mass production for it. *Q-ships were used in WW2, it was a freighter turned into a gunboat with hidden rapid fire cannons behind panels ect. It was designed to sucker submarines into surfacing to use their deck guns to destroy lone unarmed ships instead of wasting expensive, limited torpedoes. As soon as the sub surfaced and before the deck gun could be manned the panels fell away and the sub was sunk before they could react.
A lot of the confusion about the Galaxy's role stems from the fact that until later in TNG and early DS9, Starfleet wasn't supposed to have very many of them. Until about the time DS9 started, all canon sources pointed to the Galaxy being a small, highly prestigious class of 8-10 ships MAX, with as few as 6 by some estimates. Then DS9 starts and suddenly, Starfleet has hundreds of them. Even if you consider the Borg threat or the general rise in political tension, the idea of Starfleet going whole hog on Galaxy class production makes no sense when they already had the Nebula class in service. Even the base Nebula class, canonically, had the same combat and scientific capabilities (or better, in some regards) as a Galaxy class in a smaller, easier to produce package. Not to mention other ships they had come up with (Akira, for example) in the time between Farpoint and the Dominion War. The Galaxy class was never meant to be a prolific workhorse, or a warship, or even a flag or C&C ship in wartime. It was a functional showpiece. That was one of the few things I didn't like about DS9. They flogged the hell out of the Galaxy class, making it out to be more common than an Oberth, and the absolute master of the battlefield when prior to this, it had been neither. Wartime refits can explain their upgraded combat abilities, but not the fact that so many just appeared out of nowhere.
I've read somewhere that the reasons for the Cetacean labs on the Galaxy Class were twofold - first, as an emergency fall-back in case of another incident with the Probe, and second, as an auxiliary navigation aid. Since cetaceans are used to navigation in three dimensions (more so than humans, at least), the theory is that their reactions could assist in navigation. Now, whether that actually happened or not... also, it would make for an interesting episode to see a Galaxy refitted with the swim tubes from SeaQuest DSV with dolphins swimming around the ship. Pointless? Yes. Funny? Potentially. As to the upgraded capabilities of the Galaxy Class late in the Dominion War - StarFleet finally uses those expansion card buses you discussed in the previous episode! ;)
If you're looking for some fairly decent hard specifications for the Galaxy class at least Next Generation era you need to look at the Next Generation technical manual. This book was written by by the staff for the Riders and includes a lot of information. For example the Galaxy class doesn't have one computer core. It actually is equipped to have 4. The USS Enterprise launched with three. The 4th was supposed to be installed at a later date as part of an upgrade. The Galaxy class does have 12 type 10 phaser strips also known as culminated phaser arrays. This manual goes into specifications for shield strength the number of generators and a significant amount of information on tactical and axillary systems as well as intended ship operations you might find it an invaluable resource when gauging the capabilities of ships of this era
ugh you reminded me something i pushed my self to forget, the ending to Enterprise..all of the NX crew just remade on the holodeck, so much rage right there
I think you're spot on about this ship and the philosophy of Starfleet at the time and getting far too many people killed. oh and I'd love the Sovereign class starship lol
The thing is that a fully stocked, TNG-era Galaxy Class complete with Civilians is not *just* a military or science vessel. It's a mobile Embassy for the Federation, a way of saying not only "look what we can build" but also "we feel so safe as part of the Federation, we bring our kids!". In pre-TNG to early DS9 era, this fits in perfectly with the Federation's not only pacifistic but also complacent way of thinking of their position in the alpha and beta quadrants.
I think the civilians/family on board is a core of the Starfleet Philosophy, and makes a very bold statement to diplomatic relations. "Look at how powerful and great we are. We feel CONFIDENT in bringing our families along... We're peaceful, but totally equipped to fight if you try and press us, and you should totally join us rather than trying to oppose us."
Had the Galaxy Class been a purely war focused ship, when dozens of armoured hull sections, multiple redundant shields, and more phasers and torpedo tubes than you can shake a stick at, then sure, it could have been a better WARSHIP, but it would have failed in its primary mission: Peaceful exploration and diplomacy.
It is "Kind of hard" to convince someone that you "Come in peace!" if you roll up to their home planet in a tank instead of a limo. Kitting the Galaxy Class out with excessive weapons and an overly war focused layout would be kind of like putting armour plates and a turret on those tracked vehicles used in Arctic explorations, rather than just putting a rifle in the cabin to deal with polar bears. - It is armed and armoured well enough to 'handle things', but no so much as to impede the primary design mission.
Look at the Battleship Enterprise from Yesterday's Enterprise.
i think it says more that the federation are so godamned insane that they would let children onboard a ship that frequently flies into hostile territory
Putting children on a vessel that is expected to encounter unknown dangerous natural phenomena is criminally idiotic, and whatever admiral thought that was a good idea should've been busted down to Crewman and assigned to clean crappers for the remainder of his career.
Leaving aside the possibility of hostile encounters, there are more than enough dangerous natural phenomena that the ship could be expected to encounter to make bringing civilians and children onboard an insane idea.
As for its utility as a warship, some of that is a matter of perspective. As a long range explorer intended to make contact with new civilizations, the design works fine. My objections I have with Starfleet is philosophical, not to the design of a single ship. My objection is not that the Galaxy was not intended primarily for battle, but that Starfleet's pacifistic hubris was so great that they fielded NO ships designed specifically for battle. That is yet another criminally stupid decision made by leadership that should end careers.
The Dominion War era Galaxy turned out to be a beast of a ship. Turns out when you kit the Galaxy's spaceframe out for war, it makes a hell of a good warfighting system. Starfleet's mistake was not having something like that onhand already before the Dominion War started. If you're worried about appearances, don't send the ships kitted out for battle on first contact missions (though I would not say this is a hard and fast rule. You don't know who you're going to meet, some civilizations might disrespect anything they perceive as weakness and encourage them to fight, where they'd respect the site of an obviously highly capable combat ship and be less likely to fight). Send the ones kitted out for exploration then, if things go wrong, bring out your combat ships if you need them.
@@jamesp8164 space is dangrouse, so to is life.
Starfleet ant a military, it has that function, but force of arms is not starfleet.
A exploration vessel has a place for familys
"...stocked to the brim with a good percentage of people who aren't trained to defend themselves" sounds like ALL of Starfleet Security personnel.
"Redshirts(Goldshirts): Catching directed energy blasts to the Command Crew doesn't have to.
Robert Weston
where are the damn MACOs when you need them.
Discontinued with the founding of the Federation, I'm afraid.
They were retired as a unit because they started making Captains and First Officers look bad with their ability to survive a firefight or get through a bout of fisticuffs with their shirts on.
They are around for DS9. Sisko's son was embedded in a unit of them during a firefight.
Galaxy class was more inline with Gene Roddenberrys ethos for Star Trek. Exploring and meeting others, rarely fighting them. It was an exploratory cruise liner, which was not really intended to be used for front line combat on a regular basis. It was not a military ship so much as a diplomatic flagship. A vessel of first contact and science with reasonable defensive weaponry.
"Yesterday's Enterprise" made reference to the absurd idea of having families on a warship. Galaxy class was intended to represent the pinnacle of long range exploration and comfort. Which is what it was. It had plot armour and weapons, if they weren't strong enough, there was a different plot answer. What went wrong was that audiences wanted more action, more adventure and more threats. Something that the Galaxy class ethos was less suited to. The nature of the show chanced deeply with DS9, then with Voyager and Enterprise. Lastly with Discovery. Less and less about talking and more about fighting. Star Trek has gone from a show about exploring and talking to exploring and killing.
@ironduke0775 I wouldn't agree that the Roddenberry concept was boring, but I would agree that it's implementation with TNG at times could be. My biggest objection to the implementation of this ethos is that it was largely not believable. The idea that humans could and would better themselves is an optimistic view of the future that has value, but TNG took it so far that some of the characters almost weren't human anymore.
There is the dark side of human nature. Roddenberry thought we would eventually make ourselves perfect, and that is something that absolutely will not happen. Humans will still have their flaws and failings that will trip them up as they strive to be better. DS9 was so good because it explored that side of things, and thus it rang far more true and, as a practical matter, since the crew was on a space station they didn't have the luxury of TNG or VOY to magic up some answer to a conundrum and sail away from it. They had to live with every choice they made and those choices had real consequences.
Here is a counterpoint to your argument. The Galaxy class is the Federation's primier exploration, scientific and diplomatic ship. The reason they have civilians on these ships is not for families. Keiko wasn't even married to O'Brien until later and she was a botanist. These are civilians contracted to Starfleet much like World's human brother. Basically it is a small scale Yorktown station in the Kelvin timeline meant as a showcase so other races would be attracted to join the Federation. What was the class of the Enterprise-C? The Ambassador class. The Federation has several concurrent border conflicts during TNG yet the Galaxy class wasn't sent to the Cardassian border war for example. Being the Enterprise weird shit statistically happens more with ships if that name. Heck in Insurrection Picard and crew were deliberately sent on diplomatic assignments during the Dominion War to strengthen alliances and diplomatic ties like the Gorn.
The Enterprise is the star of the Federation, and tends to stay out of Wars to preserve the ideals of the Federation. (As mentioned in Discovery in regards to Pike having not fought in the Four-Year War with the Klingons despite being captain of the Enterprise.)
exactly a Galaxy with a couple of things worked out could be perfect
first move the bridge in the middle of the ship and have a smaller bridge in the saucer..so when the saucer separate the bridge crew just stay in the bridge without moving at all ..
add a warp core in the saucer make it a whole Vessel like a Prometheus...in that way fist you can use both ships for tactical purpose or the saucer with civilians can go away safely
then put all the shielding technology you have ..regenerative multiphasic multispectrum shield ...a second layer of shield over the hull ... ablative armour and polarising hull...i want to see something pass through two layer of shield a armour and the polarization hull...and while the first shield regenerate the second one protect and so you have almost unlimited shield because is possible the main shield regenerate before the second fail...who allow the second to regenerate as well
No Starfleet ship was a match for a Dominion ship at the beginning. The Captain of the Odyssey even says how they've they've run the shields through their entire spectrum, but could not stop the the Dominion weapons. Starfleet ships are tough though, she did take a major pounding before being kamakizied. There were NO unnecessary civilians on board Odyssey during her fight with the Dominion, they were ALL off loaded at DS9 (DS9: The Jem Hadar). Even the Defiant got it ass kicked in its first encounter with t he Dominion. The Defiant class was the only class to be shown to able to stand up to Dominion firepower and to destroy Dominion ships.
It really wasn't until after DS9:The Ship, where the crew of DS9 salvage a wrecked Dominion ship that we see Starfleet starting to hold up against Dominion assaults. Presumably Starfleet tore the ship apart and learned how to modify theirs and Klingon weapons and defense systems.
Agreed. The Odyssey couldn't take them. Was ineffective
Agreed, the fanboy favorites Akira and Nebula had the same or lesser shields! Would have fared the same
Yes and The Defiant had Ablative Hull Armor to help defend in the early encounters before shields were improved against Dominion weapons
@@LoreReloaded Even a Sovereign might have lost under those circumstances....Less likely,but than again..the Jem´Hadar might have used Kamikaze methods earlier in that engagement..Ok..a Sovereign WOULD have lost if under Rikers command...
Weapons were never a main focus to starfleet until the borg.
Shields, scanners, and speed.
Oh and radiation.
Rule of star trek. Do not give humans enough time to make up a radiation to use on you.
IMO the Galaxy class is a symbol of failed Federation policy.
I've come to believe that the idea behind the Galaxy Class was that the Federation believed that future wars would be settled by the diplomats. The treaty of Algeron and the Kitomer Accords were so successful that the Federation council decided that this was the way to go. With that in mind they built a handful of Galaxy Class battleships with the idea being that if a war went hot you could park a couple of these in the warzone and scare enemies to the negotiating table.
In the meanwhile the ships would serve on deep space exploration missions. Having families onboard was probably an excuse to make the crews happier on long term missions, so that they wouldn't have to be separated from their families for years at a time. Having a ship full of civilians would also act as a deterrent, making the enemy think twice before blowing one up (yeah right...)
The problem is it didn't work. The ships, while impressive, proved to be inadequate at fighting multiple ships at the same time so they needed close support. Although the Galaxy class ships were fast, the support vessels would have been older classes and couldn't keep up. So in a war zone the enemy could just give them a wide birth and ignore them. And to quote the behemoth principal "Commanders cannot use so called Super Weapons effectively, because they simply cannot afford to lose one." These ships were supposed to have a lifespan of 150 years or more, and they lost the Yamato within what? 1-2 years of it's launch with all hands?
The Cardassian border wars were settled at the negotiating table, but despite the diplomats being proud of themselves the treaty was probably fairly lob-sided to the Cardassians. Many starfleet personnel we meet show clear dissatisfaction with how the war was resolved. The Federation made a large DMZ as they always do, but left many colonies abandoned inside the zone. With the Federation fighting a defensive war, the Cardassians probably took everything they wanted in the conflict and then sued for peace. And afterwards they blatantly violated the terms of the treaty at every opportunity by arming their civilians in the DMZ and framing Federation colonists and Bajorans for acts of terrorism to instigate conflict. The feeling of abandonment by the Federation colonies eventually resulting in the creation of the Maquis.
Since the era when the Federation council decided on this policy of "Show force, then negotiate away the problem" the Federation had grown in size significantly while Starfleet's combat ready fleet was probably the same size it had been a century earlier. So they had too few ships to defend the Federation, let alone deploy to a warzone. All the while the majority of the top of the line exploration fleet was out and about beyond federation borders and of little use in a conflict.
Ultimately it took the Borg threat to kick Starfleet and the Federation council out of it's complacency.
darkalman That’s a pretty good way to sum it up. Utopian peace was the goal of the Federation and yet they, like so many pacifists in current day, do not understand that as long as the potential exists for others to not follow with your peaceful ideals you must have an extremely toothy bite to strike them down before they do so to you.
any ship looks underwhelming when being pummeled by weapons that by pass it's shields like the Dominion weapons when first encountered.
well, the defiant could stand up to it when shields were down, but I concur most.
Not in the earliest encounter . It was heavily damaged and disabled in it's first fight with the Dominion. They were with the exception of Kira and Odo captured. Later the Defiant had plot er I mean Ablative armor. Imagine a galaxy with it's shields and ablative armor.
Lore's videos are entertaining, but his perception of the Galaxy and Nebula class ships being underwhelming and weak compared to it's contemporaries shows his lack of understanding of the TNG/Ds9 era of Trek. It's been stated that both ships were cutting edge and, aside from the odd unkown alien of the week encounter, were only rivaled by the Romulan D'deridex and Klingon Vorcha at the time. I don't get how you can watch "The Wounded" and come away with the idea that the Nebula Class ship was underpowered. It's almost as if he is going for the Skip Bayless of Star Trek strategy, and coming up with takes that are so preposterous that it will clickbait us into clicking on his videos lol. Well it's working I guess.
@@LoreReloaded When the odyssey met the dominion the federation shields could not stop the dominion weapons? Would this not effect any federation ship? So can we not assume this 1st encounter would have went the same way no matter what class was sent? This was obviously overcome later so I am not sure this particular incident could mean much.
You forgot the most important design flaw, only 1 bathroom on the entire ship.
lol ive seen that little factoid before but i believe every crew quarters has a bathroom in it.
Malcolm Xavier - “sorry, got to leave my post and go back to my quarters to take a shit.”
“really? I just use a diaper.”
“As a blah-blah-ian, all waste is excreted through my breath”
“but your breath smells like roses?”
“I only eat flowers.”
Yep, fill a pot and put it into the replicator. The ship still needs bulk organic material to reassemble into all those luxury meals.
hahahahahaha!!! just made my night with that one thanks!
Don't forget the uniform flaw - no pockets!
let's hear it for the meatshields...... I mean civilians
That's what most spaceships do in the book I'm writing. The largest human and alien ships have civilian cities on the outside to deter attacks
@@Wi-Fi-El That is literally a war crime.
@@patrickmccurry1563 true. It's an alternate history book to an extent. In the book, it's legal due to every major country doing it. I should point out however that spaceships can be several miles long, and have millions of civilians onboard. The ships are military in nature, but have a far larger civilian population. The goal of the various governments is to deter attacks on ships with a potential humanitarian backlash
The Enterprise D would be similar to an Aircraft Carrier. Carriers are floating cities with many departments and amenities. Modern carriers have gyms, computer centers, MWR lounges, barbers, a shoppette, etc.
Of course The Borg would want to assimilate dolphins! They are the second most intelligent species in Earth, with humans being #3.
Is this a hitchhiker's guide reference lol
Tuna tasted much better, before Dolphin safe tuna fish nets.
Well, after the whale incident of Star Trek IV, maybe the Council felt it would be safer if they kept some dolphins aboard...you know, for good measure and as a show of good faith.
The dolphin's final message to the human race before leaving earth was "so long and thanks for all the fish"
And the #1 species was so intelligent that they made sure humans didn't know about them in case humans were assimilated. Borg invade Earth, they ignore the mice that just scurry through their systems...and......
Could we sum up the galaxy class as the ship that represented the dream of the Federation? Peaceful vessel that represents what the federation is while showing that we can defend our selfs if need be?
Yea, I think that's fair. An Idealized standard that the federation thought it was at.
Then what federation does the sovereign represent or the Odyssey!?!?
The Galaxy class was idealized peaceful purpose, but could be a force to be reckoned with. The Sovereign class was the Federation showing that if necessary they can easily bring a ship of war that doesn't take any crap into existence very quickly.
The Sovereign was Starfleet reacting the Borg and Romulans by producing something much closer to an outright warship. The Odyssey moves back towards the multi-purpose nature of the Galaxy class, but holds onto the lessons learned and has a greater emphasis on combat than the Galaxy did.
Nexus to be fair two of the Galaxies that were lost had the *severe* disadvantage of their shields being rendered COMPLETELY ineffective: Enterprise-D and Odyssey.
i saw the Galaxy class as the tank of Federation battle groups. They can take attacks like a champ. Especially after they got updated for combat during the dominion war. It probably helps that they are so large.
Besides the sovereign-class the Galaxy class is my second favorite ship as far as design. I'm one of those that have the actual blueprints deck-by-deck blueprints. And I've actually opened them up and looked at them. Very cool the layout and the idea behind the Galaxy class as an exploratory vessel. However I agree with you in that the Galaxy class was not meant for warring. It is a ship of exploration and peace not for combat.
Yea, I think the Sovereign was when they wanted to take the Galaxy and make it so it could defend someone in a real war. I enjoy both ships .
I like the pacifist nature of The Federation. Not Starfleet, The Federation. The Enterprise was not intended for war, at all. It had weapons, but only to defend it's self long enough to run away. Later on it was forced into war, a roll it was never intended for and it did well because it was such a well designed ship. You are forgetting something very key to this entire thing. Starfleet is not JUST a military. It is the exploratory arm of the Federation. It's NASA, The Navy, Spac-X, and any number of civilian organizations all rolled into one.
The most common main characters we see in Star Trek are military because that is who all the interesting stuff happens too. But star fleet also had Archaeologists, Biophysicists, Astronomers, Surveyors, Communications control specialists (people who's entire job it was to deploy and maintain Navigation and communications beacons, the cable guy of the future. Oh yeah, that is why the Galaxy could deploy mines. Because the military got their hands in the cookie jar and decided that if they were going to design a ship that could drop beacons, they may as well put some mines on board and eject them from the same ports. That's my theory, and i like it ) Architects, chemists, Programmers, Medical doctors (not combat medics) Quantum physicists, Subspace...ologists.. the list can get really long okay, just seriously.
The point is, Starfleet is not (or more precisely, should not be considered) a Military. The Galaxy Class we know and love as the Enterprise was designed for deep space, exploration on a grand scale. That mission was not a military mission. It was a Humanitarian one. Other Galaxy Class's had these missions as well i'm sure, but Starfleet was not stupid enough to leave a deep space Exploratory vessel be Handled by a crew that was not military trained. They were not about to design a ship that could not defend it's self from everything from the radiation, or god forbid near miss of wondering black hole, to a photon topedo. And they were not about to design a vessel that would not have multiple redundancies in the event of damage, or attack.
By design the Galaxy Class ship as perfect in every way it could be perfect for it's mission. (which again was not a military one) But let's address how capable it was as a Military Vessel, because Starfleet does have a military arm, those refits you discussed? They are more like alternate outfits. So the Enterprise was outfitted for deep space exploration, but Starfleet also outfitted some for combat. because , again Starfleet DOES have a military arm, Later on when war became a greater threat, Starfleet just REFITTED Galaxy class ships designed for Deep space exploration into their Combat variants. (Which almost certainly caused technical problems. one does not just reroute power from a chem lab to a phaser bank installed in it's place.)
It's actually pretty cool to watch Star Trek and watch as the military arm of Starfleet slowly takes over. At the start of TNG i'd say the Military and Humanitarian arms of Starfleet are pretty balanced. but as the series' pushed forward, the military began to take over until you end up with stupid ships like the Dauntless. Sorry, that ship is stupid.
To be fair, hindsight is 20/20,and when the Galaxy class was in development the only real threats were the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians and from what I've seen, a Galaxy class ship could hold it's own against a Klingon Vorcha cruiser, or a Cardassian Galor class ship. The Romulan De'deridex Warbird is hard to make a call on and again to be fair, the Romulans had just emerged from isolation at the start of TNG. It's only when the Borg threat emerged that Starfleet had to go back to the drawing board on literally everything (i.e. Defiant Class). Granted the Federation is guilty of pacifistic hubris but that's Gene's vision, and to tie back to what you said about the Dominion war aftermath, that pacifism would allow the Federation to slowly return to it's roots of peaceful exploration and scientific discovery for the most part, without losing their way to a Military state like the Cardassians did, it would not of been easy if you count what happened in the Voyager post season 7 novels, but it would be possible.
Yup, a fine cruise ship to play the end game in.
Too bad Starfleet was still in the mid game.
How much of a threat was the D'Deridex? The Romulans never got aggressive unless they had a 2-1 advantage
Rolando Gamez - a 1v1 with 2 ships of near equal capability is always a bad idea, win or lose.
Damage and losses are always possible and being out maneuvered is a possibility.
The Romulans may have had a superior ship, yet they do not play fair - ever.
Also, an extended battle offers the enemy more chances to analyze your tactics and technology. Another reason to always run unless you have an overwhelming advantage.
spoonikle, the Cardassians and Klingons never waited for backup to challenge a Galaxy. The D'd might be big, but it seems to be a paper tiger.
When it was in development, the Romulans were still in a prolonged period of isolation (at least according to early TNG, a few lines of dialog later, particularly on DS9 as relates to Sisko's past career assignments seem to retcon that a bit)
Personally, I think the better in universe explanation would be for the Galaxy class not to draw the dangerous assignments (ie. other ships are assigned to the missions dealing with hostile situations, while the Galaxy class goes and catalogs nebulas or something like that, but the demands of a dramatic TV show prohibit such a depiction)
I think you left out an important part about the galaxy class here when you said that it didn't measure up to new threats and referenced the Odyssey being destroyed by the dominion. The weapons being used by the Jem'hadar in that battle were phased polaron beams and the odyssey could not modulate it's shields to the weapon frequency, as stated in the TV episode. They were essentially shooting the odyssey with it's shields down that entire battle. I find it weird you left that part out when using the odyssey being destroyed to make your case when you later go on to explain how the shields on a galaxy class are it's strongest feature (borderline OP) and without them the ship is somewhat defenceless. After that ship was destroyed starfleet updated the shields on it's ships to defend against dominion weapons much to Weyoun's surprise (stated by Weyoun) when he attacked DS9. If the Odyssey had the proper shield frequency for the dominion weapons I suspect a fight between it and 3 jem'hadar attack ships would have gone differently.
The example you used would be equivalent to saying the defiant was obsolete because it was destroyed by a Breen energy weapon star fleet never encountered.
Basically the Odyssey was destroyed with a plot device, much (almost exactly) like the Enterprise D was.
I should point out that the Odyssey was losing so badly because its shields were ineffective against the J'em Hadar disruptors (something that also resulted in the defiant's easy defeat in the search parts one and two) and, as we all know, if anything hits a galaxy class starship without (effective) shields then either the starboard power coupling goes down or the warp core breaches. In my opinion if the shields had been effective then the Odyssey could have defeated the J'em Hadar fighters (assuming they didn't use suicide runs).
Precisely. The Galaxy class doesn't suck because someone beat it once. They just encountered an enemy who used tactics and exploited weaknesses they were currently unaware of. This can happen to anyone, and the only thing to do about it is figure out what went wrong and fix it. If there's one thing the Star Trek universe emphasises, it's the ability of humans to adapt to failure and come out stronger. THAT was the point of blowing up an almighty Galaxy Class. Show the threat the Dominion poses, setting the stage for the heroes to rise to the challenge. Good storytelling comes first after all.
you forgot about the coolant leaks, the bane of Geordi's existence
Not to mention that later in the war, after the Federation had learnt how to adapt to the Jem'Hadar's polaron phasers , the Galaxy-class became a nigh unstoppable powerhouse.
Got to remember that the captain of the odyssey said they can remain in combat for 20 mins without shields
Captain Keogh could have left The Saucer Section docked at DS9 for station defense. The Battle Bridge Star Drive Section of The U.S.S. Odyssey NCC-71820 would have shown The Dominion that The UFP and Starfleet Command was not going to be a pushover.
The Odyssey wasnt trying to destroy the dominion ships. It was fighting defensively likly with phaser not on max. The fact it got destroyed was because the captain underestimated how long he could last against the Dominion ships and also their ferocity and determination in battle.
The swingers parties though
In "Encounter at Farpoint," Picard notes his consternation that Starfleet gave him a ship with children aboard--thus implying that not all starships have a civilian population aboard. It's even possible that not all Galaxy Class ships had children aboard. Moreover, the Galaxy Class was intended to be separated in emergency situations, so that civilians could flee to relative or total safety aboard the saucer (or even theoretically aboard the stardrive section, if something happened to the saucer itself). Originally the show's creators planned to do saucer separations on a regular basis for precisely this reason, and it was mentioned in many episodes throughout the series. However, the expense of filming these visuals meant that saucer separations only ever occurred three times in the whole series (two of which were in the first season). But that's budget constraints, and we can use our imaginations to assume that, from an in-world perspective, saucer separations were a viable safety feature that occurred whenever needed. The mission of the Enterprise was deep space exploration, interstellar diplomacy, and missions of relief, support, medicine, or science. The vast majority of its specific assignments were peaceful, with no threat posed to the ship. Additionally, in anticipation of any probable threats to the ship, civilians could be offloaded at a starbase, which the Enterprise visited regularly (albeit usually in between episodes). The Enterprise is essentially on a frontier mission, and it makes perfect sense--and is keeping in tradition with human practices throughout history--for families to accompany Starfleet crew members. It says something about the Federation's commitment to its principles, it's a huge quality-of-life boost for those aboard, and it's an incredible learning experience and adventure and privilege for those aboard.
Separately, the Galaxy Class does indeed have twelve phaser strips. I had the model as a kid. The twelfth one is hiding on the top of the stardrive section; you can only see it when the ship is separated.
The Galaxy Class' shields were so incredibly powerful there wasn't another ship in the Milky Way that couldn't blast through them in three shots (unless the script needed four or five beats before Picard could talk them down or Data could technobabble them down).
indeed
Shouldn't Explodium be called Oberthium since it's been used in the Oberth class so much?
Man in the Black Hat, someone should do a list of ships in ALL of science fiction that are made of Oberthium.
Axe Hammer yeah... someone should. *looks at LR*
Man in the Black Hat Except Oberth classes are made of Victorium. Yes, victorium...
I think a lot of your examples suffer from the "Worf" problem. Writers would show how strong a new enemy was by having them throw Worf around. Same with the Galaxy class.
I just had an image of Picard and Data sliding down the emm Batpole from the main bridge to the Battle Bridge
Or perhaps zip lines a la Voltron.
That would have been epic.
nanananananananana Starfleet
Good analysis. As a person who has worked on ships, l say that the on board gym is always in demand, and on Star Trek, every version with a holodeck , those were always in demand too. So it would be logical to have both.
I enjoyed the humor. it brought a smile to my face, considering I'm presently having the worst week of my life. Thanks for lifting my spirits.
Flaw: The Odyssey wasn't standing up to the Gem Hadar fighters because they were able to bypass its shields, which they were only able to do because plot. But even looking at that, this isn't a flaw in the Galaxy-class design because -any- Alpha quadrant power would suffer the same thing. It wasn't long after that all Starfleet ships had their shields upgraded to defend against that particular attack.
A great breakdown of ships without getting box down or slow down with the Techno tones did a better job than any RUclipsr or other video I have watch
GALAXY CLASS FOR THE WIN. its one of the best ships ever. Except the defiant( that sexy beast;) )
many would agree
Really well balanced review probably the most valences review I’ve seen on this ship
I think the dominion stomped the Odyssey because they had been studying the alpha quadrant from a distance. There was an episode when they just showed up on the station and told them as much.
I concur.
Yeah, I thought it may have been the same episode.
Agree! I doubt Fanboy Favorite Akira or Sovereign would have done any better, with the same shields, and neither would not have survived a suicide hit to to Engineering!
NCC-1701/NCC-1701A - We're peaceful explorers, that can handle ourselves in a fight.
NCC-1701B - We're afluent peaceful explorers that can handle ourselves in a fight.
NCC-1701C - We're peaceful explorers that have peace treaties with most of the races that could oppose us.
NCC-1701D - We're peaceful explorers and diplomats that can defend ourselves if need be.
NCC-1701E - OH SHIT, THE BORG.
The Galaxy Class had the extra meatshields that other ship class just did not have.... not a feature to be over looked 😆
I actually saw a few arguments asking if the familes were human shields X_x
Lore Reloaded I know that I put it in a joking manner... but I would myself argue that the families seemed to be used unconsciously as shields.... hoping that species that they met would be less likely to be hostile if they saw children, or younglings or puppies (don't know correct term for non human children) as they may believe "No one would bring their young to a fight"
They are not civilians. They are public opinion modulators. If you blow up a Galaxy class the people gets grumpy and Section 31 wins a political leverage to deal more openly with the crisis (by proxies of course). This way you can do what needs to be done and in peace time you enjoy the benefits of a hippie like population.
shronemor actually that’s the mighty writers Plot armor. Never go into an episode without it.
that's actually true. In one of the episodes, aliens were about to destroy the enterprise only to have a little girl talk them out of it.
I agree with your assessment of the Galaxy class. Clearly was not designed to be a combat vessel, but it was powerful enough to jump into that type of role when needed. Keep it up my friend.
Can I have an Eagle Moss Oberoth in pieces for authentic feel?
Will Wilson ...then set it on fire to represent the explosion?
That's what firecrackers or fireworks are for, lol. Send the Oberoth where it truly has not been before.
the Oberth has 3 states
1) assembly line fresh
2) on it's way to it's death
3) exploding(as seen on TV, movies, books, etc), what we refer to as it's natural state at this point
Reminds me of the picture of Lego Alderaan. Just a mess of Legos spread out
Dominion was using some kind of phased poleron beam weapon to penetrate The Odysseys shields. Something the Federation never encountered before. They rotated shield nutation though the entire spectrum but non of the frequencys were effective thus they diverted shield power to weapons essentially fighting without shields. The Odyssey couldn't adapt fast enough to this new weapon and was heavily damaged and left them open to a kamikaze run because they had dropped thier shields. I would wager that any powerful Alpha Quadrant ship of the era would have fared about the same or worse then the Galaxy class. Obviously the federation adapted to this phased poleron beam as Federation Shields did function against Dominion weapons in subsequent engagements.
Did anyone notice the trekyards thing appear at least twice for like half a second
....wuuuuut....your going craaaaazy
Hehe that made me laugh
One thing to keep in mind is that within the ST universe, it appears that for most races, shields or similar energy barriers are the primary means of defense. Very rarely have we seen a ship where the hull itself doesn't crack like an egg at the first torpedo or phaser blast. The Odyssey immediately ran into weaponry that completely ignored the shields and few ships, regardless of race, would not be in a state of panic. While we see rare instances where a ship's hull is fairly tough (The Borg, the odd "neutronium alloy", etc) for the most part ship design across the quadrant usually follows a glass cannon approach.
I quite like the humor of the channel. Especially the jabs at the Oberth...
glad you enjoy.
lol yes the oberth is by far the most retarded and pointless design i have ever seen in the star trek universe. The writers obviously just created that design to quickly add depth to a federation that was supposed to consist of thousands of star ships. It seems that star fleet is only consisting of human ships especially in the post united earth era and modern federation times. The show should have done a better job on the other founding members of the federation at least by displaying star fleet ships that are at least designed by federation founding species. I perfectly can see the various ships being manned and piloted by multiple species but to say that they would leave star ship design entirely up to humans is very shallow and weak planning.
I really do like the Oberth Class. Its a Warp powered sensor pack! I really do wish they had shown some of the fan variants, like the torpedo boat and transport versions! What it isn't and never meant to be is a combat vessel! That's like criticicing my Mazda for being a crappy tank!
The Galaxy class did see a refit, look at the second half of TNG, more phaser strips were added onto the warp nacelle and pylons along with updated torpedo launchers able to fire quantum torpedos kinda like the Lakota refit for the Excelsior.
Edit: the extra phaser strips were added only to the nacelle tops, not the pylons, also Dominion war galaxy classes didn’t have the optional science facilities installed instead they were loaded with additional ground forces and medical facilities. They were used as battleships and fleet hospitals as needed
NINTENDOSH they modified the torpedo launchers themselves and upgraded the shields and armor, but the Lakota was the test bed for the refit of the Excelsior line
Im Excited for the Trekyards team up! ;)
Thank you for covering some of the questions people had from part one.
I try to address the issues if they are brought up and i can.
To be fair, the Odyssey did tank several direct hits during first contact with the Jem Hadar
we always love your content in this sci fi house.
Nice subliminal message there, Lore.
Twas no subliminal message my friend.
Okay, nice "short duration message there, Lore." lol
2:42
Multiple times...
1:36 "Trekyards" :S
7:40 The reference to the Galaxy Class having twelve phaser arrays is given in the ST: TNG Technical Manual. The first edition reference is in chapter 11.1 (Tactical Systems / Phasers) on page 123.
4x little ones near the aft torpedo launcher (2 above, 2 below)
2x little ones on the secondary hull facing aft just next to where the saucer separates
2x medium sized ones on the outside of the warp nacelle struts.
1x medium sized one on the bottom of the secondary hull
2x big main arrays on the saucer
(1x hidden medium sized one on the secondary hull where it connects to the saucer)
Hey lets not underestimate them civvies, while they were busy being meatshields being assimilated or killed off by boarding parties the starfleet crew members could work on retaking the ship! It was secretly a Section 31 idea! Put defenseless people on board so during boarding you just throw civs at them so starfleet can work without problems! XD
I still question the Saucer's warp capability. I said it last time, and I'll say it again (Especially after the in-warp saucer sep clip we had in the video toady) I wonder if the Saucer can sustain a warp field if it's already been created by the drive section. Once separated the saucer probably has the power to sustain an already created warpfield, just doesn't have enough power to do that initial jump/acceleration to warp on it's own. Makes sense imo. Can probably only sustain low warp and only for a couple of hours but it would be a nice feature. And the limitation of "It can't make it's own only sustain one already made" explains away instances like Generations where if it had warp it should have warped away since it didn't have the capability to jump without the drive section.
On top of that if the saucer for the Galaxy and Nebula were the same, then we can assume that the Nebula would be able to hit a higher top speed as its warp field would be smaller, with the added generators in the saucer section from the galaxy design it could help stabilize a warp field to increase speed by point whatever percent lol. (Which would explain why a Nebula in voyager was able to catch up to the Prometheus, because of that thar left over Galaxy Class saucer design addons.)
Who knows though maybe I'm just making this up as I go along. Still an interesting concept though. Would support your patreon if I had monies. I aint on no fixed income I'm on a broke income. XD Though Lore, I must say, you seem like the kind of person I could debate with for hours over the technical details of trek. Keep doing what you're doing, you provide me a great many ideas to contemplate about treknology and design.
It certainly does look like Starfleet admirals and Zap Brannigan went to the same school.
According to the master systems display the Galaxy saucer didnt have a warp core, nor did it have any kind of warp nacelles.
I think the argument they used was that the saucer somehow maintained enough momentum to stay at warp speed until reaching a starbase, yknow, because they are completely forgetting 3 things: A: Warp drive doesnt work by Newtonian physics since the ship doesnt move through space, its sitting still in its own self contained bubble, and the bubble moves, but the ship itself doesnt have any momentum. B: Even if they did have some magic momentum that allowed them to stay at FTL speeds without a warp drive, they would have extreme time dilation effects, in fact I have no clue what happens if you travel faster than light, since Im pretty sure at this point we only know what happens with time dilation at sub-light speeds. C: Even if all that somehow wasnt a problem, claiming a saucer can somehow coast to a starbase with enough momentum implies that there is some sort of friction involved, which there really isnt (at least not in an amount that makes a difference). Its space. Its empty. If you sail in a direction, youre gonna keep going until you hit something (with the exception of gravity, but at FTL speeds youre likely well beyond any escape velocity anyway)
So, that said, the Nebula probably didnt have a secondary warp core in the saucer either.
Also my impression was always that the Nebula and Galaxy classes were generally capable of the same warp speed, though the Nebula would be more economic, since the deciding factor for speed would be the frequency at which you can fold up space and put it behind you, and with a nearly identical, though rearranged, warp drive that should be the same. The Nebula would only use less energy for the same travel due to a smaller warp field, but thats a negligible difference probably.
Also: Welcome to the club. Im delivering newspapers, which earns absolute shit in terms of money. Because of that Im supposed to get social welfare in addition to that, because what I have now is clearly below any living standard (and I have to live from it), but german bureaucracy being what it is, processing a form takes an ungodly amount of time. Yknow, its not like i really badly need the money for food and other stuff, right?
Actually I never said it had a second warp core. As we all know a warp core isn't needed for warp its just because of the massive amount of power required. We also know warp nacelles aren't required for warp as we see many species achieve warp without them. (See: Andorians, Cardassians, and Klingon BoP) It's possible the warp field would start to decay after separation and the fusion reactors onboard the saucer can sustain a decaying warp field long enough to warp a few light years away.
Only because Cardassians or Klingons dont make their nacelles as prominent or use different setups for their warp engines doesnt mean they dont operate on the same principle or dont require the same amount of power. Look at the ring-shaped warp engine on 22nd century vulcan ships for example. I can well imagine that the entire tail of a Galor is essentially a single warp nacelle, or the two dorsal superstructures on the Bird of Prey are essentially also just cut-down nacelles. More Federation-style nacelles that are far apart at the rear may have some efficiency benefit to them, but evidently there are plenty of other shapes and arrangements for warp engines that can work.
But a Galaxy saucer has literally no warp drive system whatsoever, neither a antimatter reactor (aka warp core) to supply the needed power, nor any type of warp nacelle or anything else that could use energy to make a warp field, so it literally should not be able to maintain any warp speed on its own. Ever.
chill out, its a fictional tv show. Also the tail of the Galor isn't a warp engine, its been well established it's in the blades. Anyways it's just a theory. Nothing says they can't have some sort of warp field generators in the saucer, they don't have to be nacelles, and it doesn't need to be an antimatter reactor. A subspace bubble (Like the type of a warp field) can be created without warp coils or antimatter.
the galaxy class wasnt designed as a warship. it could defend itself well, but it was a jack of all trades vessel that could do exploration, diplomacy, assist with natural disasters, etc. it was also designed before ablative armor became the norm, so its defenses were all in its shields, just like in all of trek up until that point. in major conflicts up until then mass produced ships like the excelsior and miranda class were used.
The Bridge Consoles were CONFIGURABLE!!! Episodic "Needs" aside.
Michael Schultz well why else would you have Note 7s for bridge consoles if they weren't?
I still remember that one oculus rift walkthrough of a VR Galaxy class, it’s absolutely gargantuan. Just the main shuttle bay alone is cavernous. It blows my mind that they were mass produced heavily in the Dominion war. Future building technology or not, that’s a massive thing to build. Let alone putting in that 1000 man crew.
The major design flaw with the Galaxy class and just about all Starfleet ships is the fact the bridge is so exposed. If aliens really wanted to destroy/disable the ship they could concentrate their fire and destroy the bridge. Imagine that Bird of Prey who had the shield frequency shot one torpedo or disrupter blast to the bridge, game over. It's like they count on their enemies being gentlemanly towards them rather than fighting for their lives. The bridge should be deep in the center of the ship, I imagine where the "battle bridge" is. Why have two bridges? The Battle Bridge should just be the bridge.
I loved mudds statement "There is so many ways to destroy this ship, it should be listed as a feature" .. I think the battle bridge was an attempt to show it's a peaceful ship first and only last resort option
Didn’t the Andorians design have their bridge in the center of ship? Instead of on top of every saucer section that Starfleet ever built.
That actually happens in Enterprise. In the episode in the future (due to Archer having brain time parasites) and the Xindi attack the last surviving humans. They actually cut the bridge deck completely off the ship leaving it completely disabled.
It's likely got more to do with Naval tradition than anything else. That being said the majority of syfy does the same thing. That being said I like the Galaxy class its modularity makes it a very versatile ship. Also when compared to a BC-304 the 304 has multiple bridges, redundancies, and can take quite a pounding with its shields down.
Dos not matter, star trek weapons are in the megaton yield. Without shields or a blade of hull armer most weapons go through hull plating like a hot knife through butter.
Never liked the Galaxy Class Starship at first. Eventually started to love it. Now I think it's one of my favorite ship's ever.
not that you asked but i would recommend ryzen for a render machine. the high core count helps even though the chips are slightly slower than intel. a minute or two diffence wont be noticed but saving 200 dollars will. especially with the high price of graphics cards
Phaser strips for the stock Galaxy-Class Starship: 2 on the saucer; dorsal strip, ventral strip. 1 Hidden between the saucer and engineering hulls and only usable when ship is serparated. 2 at the top rear of the connecting neck between the two hulls. 2 flanking the aft torpedo launcher and 2 directly opposite on the underside. 2 on the bottom of the nacelle pylons where they curve up. The final one is on the dorsal of the engineering section. Grand total: 12 phaser strips.
there ya go
I'm thinking the dolphins where there due to their size and any future run in's with the probe of ST4 voyage home.
The Galaxy Class starship has always held a place in my heart because that's the ship I grew up watching. I was in awe (not in a good way) when the Enterprise D was destroyed in Generations. But I was satisfied with the Enterprise E's design (even with it's fluctuating specs lol).
For sure if it was needed for the Galaxy class to be combat effective the solution would be Galaxy Dreadnought Refit (All Good Things... )
THAT IS A GALAXY CLASS STARSHIP, WE ARE NO MATCH FOR THEM!
That thing was ugly
I call it "Riker-ized". Beauty be damned, that cannon was serious business!
Like an A-10 Thunderbolt 2 "Warthog" lol.
Visually it’s the most aesthetically pleasing starship to look at on the inside and out.
I don't like the Starfleet pacifism that so recklessly had them sending civilians into harm's way, but it definitely made sense for the general arc of 24th century Trek, as they gradually stepped back from their hubris and took Q's warnings to heart.
Galaxy Class Starships were my favorite ship! Would love a model!
finishes video... still rages in comments
I agree with you for the most part regarding the Galaxy I'm glad to see that you brought in the Dominion war error up-armored ship. I always enjoyed the spaciousness of the ship and the amenities that it offered is always kind of nice to see how far they came compared to the original series
explodium :D:D cracked me up.
Very nice ship and elegant looking. What you said about is completely fair. Powerful enough for a flagship of its time.
lets not pretend in the prime timeline that whales wouldnt be significant to starfleet. i mean come on theres a bird of prey on the floor of San Francisco Bay. captain there be whales!
Still didn't learn that much about cloaking devices it would seem.
that damned treaty with the Romulans did limit cloaking tech
because in typical starfleet logic, lets give up the super tactical advantage to remain at peace 15 minutes longer
id like to hope they would keep her together. but i am sure you are right she was stripped to the last bolt.
Section 31 ships actually have cloaking devices superior to anything Klingon ships or Romulan ships have.
OptimusWombat There is the fact that the one time Starfleet tried building a cloaking device they ended up with a phase cloak device, a tech used only by another specie on screen, the Voth.
Thanks to you Lore reloaded I spent $122 on an eaglemoss 30th anniversary collectors bundle of the Enterprise D. When i decide i wanted an Enterprise D model Eaglemoss was the first to pop up thanks to this video.
I’ll let you know what i think of it when i get in the mail.
HOW DARE YE HAVE AN OPINION THAT GOES AGAINST EVERYTING I KNOW TO BE TRUE!...HAHAHA, JK. The Galaxy class was flawed but will forever be what I think of first as Starfleets capitol ship.
This is a graceful and beautiful ship. I thank you for the videos!
Mid-24th Century Starfleet is a good example of what your military looks like when you put Liberal Arts professors in charge. It's like a college campus in space! There were just slightly fewer people getting offended and triggered by everything.
And Cardassia is an example of putting Conservatives in charge. Science and innovation as an afterthought. Ruling through brutal authoritarian repression, using a secret police to convict those who speak out against lies, and a court system that has already decided on the verdict and punishment before even hearing the evidence. A military that can only be propped up through the brutal exploitation of their neighbors, that ends with a military uprising forcing you out, and inviting your mortal enemies in as allies for protection.
I’ll gladly take the peaceful exploration of science and truth over your Orwellian wet dream.
Daniel Trotter 👍👍👌
@@nicolasbazzano2028 Versus your leftist utopian wet dream of all sunshine and rainbows, you leftists project way too much.
someguy37 you mean Gene Roddenberry's utopian dream that is Star Trek? The Liberal dream is the Trek utopia, while your nutter Conservative dream is the dystopia of Walking Dead.
Every man for himself, no government telling you what to do, and everyone has all the guns they want.
@@nicolasbazzano2028 I am not stupid enough to believe in Utopia regardless of liberal or conservative. If I am a nutter conservative that is a pretty low bar for crazy. You made a smart ass remark and I responded in kind.
You came off as another butthurt liberal, and so I had some fun with it.
You looked alot more like you were picking a side and defending it rather than merely pointing out the opposite side of the coin of extreme political spectrum.
Of the two extremes one currently has control over the education sector and entertainment. The other is a absolute fringe minority, that holds no power and Is openly ridiculed.
"I'll still be here when you get back." That's just sweet.
about the computer core..... the galaxy has 3 computer cores, 2 on the saucer, and one in the stardrive section. in the binar episode, they stole the enterprise because at the time the enterprise was the most advanced computer system in the known sector with the most storage space, this was due to its 3 cores.
The Galaxy-class was a Starfleet vessel first introduced in the late 2350s. It was one of the largest and most powerful Federation starship classes of its time, with many serving in the Dominion War. Starfleet had previously operated another type of Galaxy-class starship in the 2250s. (TNG: "The Ensigns of Command")
Maybe Starfleet thought that being with your family might bring better performance from the crew, but I do have to agree with you about how they practically endangered their lives in the process, even with a galaxy class ship
Well, there is one huge advantage to the Galaxy class having all of that room for accommodating civilians and families once the reality of war sets in.
It now has plenty of room to accommodate marines.
I understand that the Pacifistic nature of the Enterprise D makes the TNG era look bad, but personally, I love it. I don’t care what anyone else thinks, I love it and that’s that. Great topic, great video, great everything. Keep up the good work, and I can’t wait for the upgrade you’re getting. See ya, Lore Reloaded
Thanks for taking a fair look at the Galaxy Class ships. They can be powerful beasts, or tame kittens depending on what Star Fleet was thinking with that model at the time.
While they are not my fav class, I do like them for the fact that they are a great type to fit out into whatever you want with them.
You were absolutely right about the families and the strength of the ship. All federation vessels should be as powerful as they can be and run by trained officers.
Well you're right on the idea that the bridge stations could change with the needs of the episode. LCARS computer consoles were designed to be able to be re-purposed for any ship function. This happens a few times in TNG. But it happens most explicitly when Worf reconfigured an engineering console on the defiant in DS9 to act as a helm because the bridge was damaged or over run or some such.
He is my take on the Galaxy class it was designed as a long range exploration cruiser with it strong shields it gave it the option to run rather then fight. Which if you refer back to the very first episode this is what Picard tried to do with "Q". It was never meant to be strictly a warship, but a explorer.
after watching about 5 or videos, now i'll subscribe :)
It's really nice how you explain it all :) I really like it! Keep it up and Jolan Tru
glad you enjoy the channel.
Love the *ahem* subtle references at the teamu up!
Keep it up sir!! Great video and a very good analysis of the Galaxy class.
The reason the Oddysey was so badly beaten was because at that time star fleets shields were completely ineffective that's also why the enterprise d was destroyed the duras sisters penetrated the shields and inflicted heavy damage to the engineering section.
The Enterprise D was launched in 2363 and the Dominion war was in 2373-2375.
It's fair to say the Galaxy Class was due a major refit, not that it would have made much difference. In the first encounter the shields were effectively useless anyway.
The Odyssey lasting as long as it did with no shielding was actually pretty impressive against three ships.
I wish there had been a proper shipyard episode in DS9 so we could have seen how they teched up to take on the dominion and also get to see the new ships like the akira etc.
great video as always matey
Oh, and congrats on getting new and better equipment soon. Looking forward to your work in the future
all because of you guys ;)
Like when the Dominion says something like "Starfleet shields always proved useless against our weapons" and Dukat respond by "I learned it to be prudent to never underestimate Starfleet engineer". At the start of the war, Dominion weapons would just go right through, which explains why 3 small attack ships had it so easy.
I agree.
This is my favorite ship in the entire Star Trek galaxy.
Thanks for another great video! I agree that the Galaxy was the pinnacle of Federation peacetime hubris. I how the Ambassador class faired in that regard as well.
What I always thought was take advantage of the modular nature of the detachable saucer section. Have a saucer that was effectively a battlestation or weapons platform - nothing else, no crew except for maintenance access, minimal life support (or uses drive sections life support) ect. It's fitted to a Galaxy's secondary hull when needed, swapping out the 'nice' friendly peacetime hull, and relying on the battle bridge, warp core and shields (although it may have extra shielding and armour) ect of the drive section. And then it just rains down massive long range barrages of photons at range, sort of like a souped up version of the homewold missile destroyer. Imagine a fleet manoeuvre where as an opening salvo hundreds of photons rain down on the enemy fleet as they approach for engagement.
And while fitting it with an arsenal of phasers is tempting and useful, it's still just one ship with one set of shields and can be destroyed as such, if you can withstand the fire. At close range it would be priority target number one of the enemy fleet, and it needs the power for all the extra phasers (secondary reactors?). Still some more phasers would be handy for missile defense and eliminating fighters and corvettes, say double the number of phasers wouldn't tax the systems too much.
Using it as a missile truck/artillery barrage is a better use of it's abilities. The saucer could hold thousands of photon torpedoes (not quantum torpedoes, they are 'expensive' and in limited supply, and space is not an issue) and dozens of launchers for simultaneous launch of large salvos. Plus the massive computer systems of the Galaxy could handle the processing of all that targeting information.
It could have similar firepower to DS9 (which had 5000 photon torpedoes), but in a mobile package.
It could also be disguised to look like a regular saucer section to sensors, with dampening fields hiding the arsenal if the extra expense was warranted in peacetime. If expecting trouble (say going to Romulan space on a piece of unconfirmed intelligence) it could be swapped into the drive section and potential adversaries would never know what they were facing.
Or just keep them in reserve in Federation facilities without the extra build requirements of *Q-ship systems in case of a hot war. Also since they are just a standard hull design without a warp core, navigation, sensors or other complicated components they are easy to build. Since the same saucer is used for the Nebula class saucer Starfleet obviously has mass production for it.
*Q-ships were used in WW2, it was a freighter turned into a gunboat with hidden rapid fire cannons behind panels ect. It was designed to sucker submarines into surfacing to use their deck guns to destroy lone unarmed ships instead of wasting expensive, limited torpedoes. As soon as the sub surfaced and before the deck gun could be manned the panels fell away and the sub was sunk before they could react.
A lot of the confusion about the Galaxy's role stems from the fact that until later in TNG and early DS9, Starfleet wasn't supposed to have very many of them. Until about the time DS9 started, all canon sources pointed to the Galaxy being a small, highly prestigious class of 8-10 ships MAX, with as few as 6 by some estimates. Then DS9 starts and suddenly, Starfleet has hundreds of them.
Even if you consider the Borg threat or the general rise in political tension, the idea of Starfleet going whole hog on Galaxy class production makes no sense when they already had the Nebula class in service. Even the base Nebula class, canonically, had the same combat and scientific capabilities (or better, in some regards) as a Galaxy class in a smaller, easier to produce package. Not to mention other ships they had come up with (Akira, for example) in the time between Farpoint and the Dominion War. The Galaxy class was never meant to be a prolific workhorse, or a warship, or even a flag or C&C ship in wartime. It was a functional showpiece.
That was one of the few things I didn't like about DS9. They flogged the hell out of the Galaxy class, making it out to be more common than an Oberth, and the absolute master of the battlefield when prior to this, it had been neither. Wartime refits can explain their upgraded combat abilities, but not the fact that so many just appeared out of nowhere.
I've read somewhere that the reasons for the Cetacean labs on the Galaxy Class were twofold - first, as an emergency fall-back in case of another incident with the Probe, and second, as an auxiliary navigation aid. Since cetaceans are used to navigation in three dimensions (more so than humans, at least), the theory is that their reactions could assist in navigation. Now, whether that actually happened or not... also, it would make for an interesting episode to see a Galaxy refitted with the swim tubes from SeaQuest DSV with dolphins swimming around the ship. Pointless? Yes. Funny? Potentially.
As to the upgraded capabilities of the Galaxy Class late in the Dominion War - StarFleet finally uses those expansion card buses you discussed in the previous episode! ;)
If you're looking for some fairly decent hard specifications for the Galaxy class at least Next Generation era you need to look at the Next Generation technical manual. This book was written by by the staff for the Riders and includes a lot of information. For example the Galaxy class doesn't have one computer core. It actually is equipped to have 4. The USS Enterprise launched with three. The 4th was supposed to be installed at a later date as part of an upgrade. The Galaxy class does have 12 type 10 phaser strips also known as culminated phaser arrays. This manual goes into specifications for shield strength the number of generators and a significant amount of information on tactical and axillary systems as well as intended ship operations you might find it an invaluable resource when gauging the capabilities of ships of this era
ugh you reminded me something i pushed my self to forget, the ending to Enterprise..all of the NX crew just remade on the holodeck, so much rage right there
I think you're spot on about this ship and the philosophy of Starfleet at the time and getting far too many people killed. oh and I'd love the Sovereign class starship lol
Loving this channel. Especially as a newish trek fan
The shields were fine as long as your chief of engineer doesn't have his visor hacked!
Very nice pack full of information i do love your channel Lore. Very accurate i would not see how anyone could disagree with this.