The first 100 people to go to blinkist.com/geographics are going to get unlimited access for one week to try it out. You’ll also get 25% off if you want the full membership.
Simon i have one piece of advice. Never use that low rolling bass track starting around 9:50 under your own talking again without turning it way down. On a good pair of headphones it's so overpowering that it's almost uncomfortable to listen to continuously because it's got harmonics in the infrabass range, which have a tendency to cause anxiety and make people really uncomfortable. That and it makes you hard to hear because of how much louder it is than your voice, with the bass being powerful enough to literally blow your voice away.
I work as a machinist with a few Vietnamese guys. And the stories they tell from Vietnam are some of the scariest things I have ever heard. What a tough, fascinating culture and history these people have.
I work with guy who was a south vietnamese artillery officer. The stories he has of the war and his escape from Vietnam to America are horrific. His suffering makes all my first world problems seem pathetic by comparison, and he took it all in stride and has the most can do attitude of anyone I've worked with.
I am a machinist and worked with so many boat people and soldiers, was even over there in the navy. I always found these guys the coolest and best folks in the world. Honest hard working super smart loyal, only thing is they are hard to understand sometimes. made me mad that people wouldn't take the time to understand them and they never got the respect they deserved. if you asked them their story you would have a true friend. also the guys from laos and cambodia. they were real men.
I have a friend who was in the south vietnamese army and served alongside American troops since he spoke English and he has some similar stories. He's only told me a couple since he starts to get choked up even talking about it even 45 years later. He fled to a thai refugee camp and got over to the US thanks to an American GI and it's too emotional to even go back to visit
@@philipfortygin7660.... Sure... A good VN friend told me stories. As a child he and friends would go out in to the woods and collect large wasp nests. Wrap them in banana leaves and bring them home. Then throw them over the walls of American bases. His father would transport orders out of saigon to the field commanders. He would memorise the orders, hide under the seat of the mayor's car and get driven through the Americans road blocks. Then walk and hitch hike north.
I am French, and Dien Bien Phu is one of our worst military defeat of all time, usually very little known from the rest of the world. I want to thank you and give you a lot of credit for presenting that History to the world and just knowing about it. Pretty amazing.
I'm English, and I remember my mother telling how shocked she was at the news that Dien Bien Phu had fallen. The siege was closely followed in Great Britain.
I'm a US Army vet. I never understand why people make fun of the French military. Their commanders have let them down but the bravery of the regular soldier cannot be questioned. But the Vietnamese had a right to fight for their independence. They fought hard and won. Colonialism is not ok.
You just solved at least three controversies in a couple of coincise sentences. Well said. Please continue roaming in comments sections to settle disputes.
Idk I mean people who actually know history tend to laugh at the Italian army not the French. There would be no United States of America without the French soldiers
An interesting perspective from an American soldier. I'm not being disrespectful, I am pleased with your attitude, as a Canadian of a certain age I grew up with American propaganda about the evils of communism and the Domino theory. I also grew up under the shadow of nuclear war. Vietnam was the poster child for the war on Communism. As I got older I came to see it for what it was, just another form of colonization whether by the Russians, Chinese or the Americans. The people on the ground did the lions share of the dying.
My grandfather did take part on that war as a French soldier, he is Moroccan(North African hehe). Thank you for making this episode. I did miss him, he passed away 12 years ago, he did always told me to never underestimate those Asians, and to be patient as them.
Apparently the Moroccans were notorious among the Viet's as brutal murderers and rapists. It led to a stigma with the American black soldiers during the war since the locals assumed they would act the same
@@mattt6078 lol no . Moroccans and Algerians looks just like French or Southern Europeans , The Viet just assumed black American soldiers as slave soldiers just like the French foreign legions , French colonial armies, and their slave soldiers. I dont know about Moroccan , but plenty of Algerian POW in Dien Bien Phu would then came home and spark their Algerian war against the French overlords.
Tom viktorsson not all look european in Algeria many Tuareg and Amazigh Algerians and Algerins of other ethnic groups like the Haratin are “black” and in Southern Morocco you will find Harathin so it’s possible for some of them to have made it over their
What Dien Bien Phu gained in growth, they've lost in landscape and history. Whether it's remembered as a victory for Vietnamese independence, or a defeat of a foreign colonial power, it should not be forgotten, and I'm glad to hear that Vietnam has been taking steps to preserve its history.
I am Vietnamese and we will never forget the battle of Dien Bien Phu. We had to try for independence until 1975 and the battles with Cambodia and China in 1979 and 1988(Vietnam Sino war). It was not until 1995 that Vietnam was able to lift the embargo. Therefore, for more than 30 years, we have only had the economic conditions to preserve history.
@@nguyenthanhtung4520 Wasn’t Vietnam in a state of near constant war for like 5 decades (1940s to 1990s)? That’s honestly tied with Afghanistan for how long their war has been going on (Afghanistan has been fighting since 1978).
@@nguyenthanhtung4520 wtf are you talking about? The US wasn't trying to rule Vietnam and in fact if the North didn't resist a democratic Vietnam, Vietnam would be better off then what is today. Today's Vietnam is ruled by a bunch of communist gangsters. They steal everything.
forgiveness and move on is better options, after all it were just another day in the long years of brutal conflict in Vietnam , a big day , but just another day in office. after all our forefathers fought the wars for our peace, prosperity love happiness, independence and self determinations, all sacrifices are in vains if it is just for more hatred and wars. we have to forgive , be friends with everybody we could , and prepare for the wars to come.
Your knowledge of Dien Bien Phu battle is even better than a lot of young Vietnamese today. Thank you for sharing. It reminds me the history lessons that I learned from schools over 40 years ago.
Just love Vietnam..the country it’s people..I travelled through here in 2018 and all of Vietnam ..top to bottom..It’s such a beautiful country and that’s from Sapa far north all the way to Ca Mau in the Mekong Delta..Learnig a lot about the Vietnamese you soon realise how determined as a people they are when it comes to defending their amazing country..they would never give it up..and if I was Vietnamese I wouldnt have never given it up either..
@@paulohaulo3961 Nah, he's just an uncultured knobbo, you come across people like that every so often. Every cuisine I have ever tried has good stuff, some more, some less. I've eaten plenty of things a lot of people I know would never touch, and found many of them to be absolutely delicious, like whole pan fried baby octopuses, Japanese blow-fish(Fugu - the deadly one) etc. Trying new stuff just isn't for everyone, which is fine, but the one thing I don't think is fine is bagging on it like Chris here.
Thank you for this insightful history. I helped evacuate Vietnam in Operation New Life in 1975 while in the United States Navy. Whenever I go through a history like this, I have mixed emotions. However, by revisiting the past I understand more of what my youth was about.
@EmperorJuliusCaesar Yes, just in time for the Vietnamese to invade Cambodia three years later to overthrow the horrendous Communist Khmer Rouge regime they supported during the 1970 Cambodian Civil War. Less celebrated is Vietnam's quiet retreat from its own deeply unpopular foreign war that ended 25 years ago this month. A war where Vietnamese troops, sent as saviours but soon seen as invaders, paid a steep price in lives and limbs during a gruelling decade-long guerilla conflict. -BBC
Thank you for your service. And thank you for what you did to south Vietnamese people in 1975. Half of my family escaped on 4/29/75 and the other half escaped in 1983 as boat people.. great to be here in the US. Thank you again!!
@@joyfold1029 I bet you a wooden nickel he'd reach a point where he goes "aaaand I should have read this ahead of time, [repeats what he'd just said, but as a statement written by Danny]"
The West African soldiers who came back from Dien Bien Phu narrated the history of Vietnam's victory, giving to the movement of decolonization an immense impulse. Thank for restoring the memory of this fight for human freedom.
My uncle served there in the Foreign Legion. I've pasted my general post here as I think you may be interested. WOW... I love your channels BUT.. The first part where you set the scene is so USA centric omitting very important details to cover the USA's betrayal of a former ally. My version comes from my uncle who ran away from home at the age of 16 (No, his name isn't Beau) to join the Foreign Legion. He served in Algeria and deserted when the Vichi regime took control at the fall of Free France at the beginning of world war 2. He escaped to England where he fought as a pilot along side the RAF. After the war he returned to his duties with the Foreign Legion. Now an engineer, he was posted to serve in Indo-China. At this time the morale of the Legionnaires was rock bottom as most came from Eastern European countries that were currently being sold out by the USA, Britain and France to the Soviets. Ho Chi Minh and his forces were trained and equiped by the OSI (CIA) to fight the Japanese in Indo China with the promise of independence. This freed up US forces for other theatres. After the war all promises were broken as the French were allowed to return. Ho Chi Minh even traveled to Washington to talk to their 'friends' but Truman refused to even meet him. Returning home without any friends he was determined to end the colonisation of his homeland. The Soviets saw their opportunity and offered aid where none was to be had. Because of this the world labelled him a communist. Many Legionnaires considered them selves as freedom fighters and now saw them selves as oppressors fighting against freedom fighters on behalf of traitors who sold their home nations out. Their hearts were NOT in this fight. Years later my family (blacklisted by the communists) escaped Czechoslovakia and I eventually became an Australian soldier. At this time I managed to reconnect with my uncle. What he tried to get through to me was that just because someone is labelled a communist doesn't make them communists and to be aware that the terrorist you may be fighting is someone else's freedom fighter. VietMinh to VietCong - Thanks to USA. Mujahideen to Taliban - Thanks to USA . America will never learn from history if it keeps denying its existance.
@@wetcat833 In effect, the story is more complicated than most people think. In his video on Ho Chi Minh, Simon Whistler pointed out the numerous travels he undertook in the US and France, not only to educate himself, but to put forward the plight of his people. The numerous false promises of the US, France or UK have led to events whose consequences are still visible nowadays. For instance, De Gaulle promised to grant independence to Francophone African nations as a reward for their participation in WWII. Eventually, he did nothing. Thank you su much for sharing this with me.
It would have been impossiblle without the will of the socialo-communist government who ruled France at that time, and was in fact partner of the ennemy; Dien bien Phu has been the grave of the viet army, and was conceived by the army as a trap to kill the most possible of vietminh troops (they loosed there 150 000 men ), and it worked; but the french army was betrayed by politicians at the order of Moskow, who took this " defeat " as a pretext to give up.
The commander of the mercenary force is ‘Roger Faulques’. There is a very poignant/inspiring photo of him carrying the artificial hand of Captain Danjou, during the celebration of the battle of Camerone in 2010.
We had to talk about three liberators out of six liberators as options for an essay in tenth grade. Minh was listed as an option and we were allowed to do research at home before we wrote it in class the next day. I talked about this battle. After the essays were graded, my teacher said I was the only one that talked about it
Always worth remembering that Dien Bien Phu has 60" of rain a year and if you kill a mans (Giap's ) wife and let his baby daughter starve to death, you are going to make an Enemy from hell. The Frenchman that wrote "Hanoi Adieu" was taught by Giap and remembered him fondly as being a decent human being.
Giap was a genius. He fought for Vietnam from WWII with only 40 guys all the way to the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979. And he never lost a single war (battles sure, but never the war itself).
I have travelled to Viet Nam and around other bordering countries. The one thing that struck me about the Vietnamese is their intelligence. Of all the Asian cultures to go to war against, these people would be the toughest. They are the most resourceful people and culture I have ever seen. If anyone wants a good fictional, (but accurate synopsis of Viet Nam) read the book 'Saigon.' Sorry, but it was so long ago since I read it that I can't remember the authors' name.
I have been there myself. My guide said that so many soldiers die during the operation that if you lay out all of their bodies, it would cover the entire surface area of the hills of Điện Biên Phủ. Today, decades later of the the fighting, human remains could still be found occasionally. Especially when in rains, as the rain carry the dirt away, skeletal remains sometimes emerge.
I first heard of Dien Bien Phu when I saw 'Apocalypse, Now Redux' during the scene at the French colonial plantation. I was intrigued enough to look it up, and found what an amazing battle and defeat of the French forces it was. So much of what Americans know of Vietnam is from our own actions there, but this battle in particular is significant in understanding the French engagement, ultimate defeat, and end of their Indochinese colonialism.
He nearly got one at Khe San. But Johnson (and Nixon) did not understand that it wasn’t military defeat that was the problem. They’d won all the battles. They controlled almost all of SVN. The place they didn’t control was between the ears of the people. But that didn’t matter. The NVA only had to win a conventional battle over a shitty ARVN to when we were no longer there.
Phils Phan Yup, in fact, the much talked about Tet Offensive was the death knell for the Viet Cong. America lost Vietnam because of McNamara’s (he chose targets from the Oval Office) draconian ROE and as importantly, a home front that no longer supported the war.
I remember seeing some years ago a picture of French Foreign Legion paratroopers flying towards their drop point singing bravely to reinforce their trapped buddies at Dien Bien Phu.The caption stated they knew they would be going to their deaths,singing bravely together on their date with destiny. Whew ! Very moving picture.
@@Wolfhound223 That song was more about the reality of what the men endured. "Start the Fire" was more a littany of historical events: no reason why Dien Bien Phu shouldn't be in it.
_Hind sight is always 20/20_ At the time the US was willing to pay the price and use everything in their tool box to defeat the Russians and by extension the communist ideology Which is why the US did questionable things but at the time they were deemed by the many world leaders to be justified: 1) recruiting former third Reich scientists and engineers such as Klaus Barbie 2) Failing to prosecute the Japanese for their war crimes like the infamous Unit 1071 3) Removing a democratically elected Iranian prime minister because of his communist leanings and nationalising of Iranian oil reserves 4) Allying themselves with the brutal Pakistani regime because Pakistan was a rival and it was seen to counter India as India had great relations with the Soviets 5) Giving Pakistan the US seal of approval to commit genocide in East Pakistan (Bangladesh) 6) Covering for the Mai Lai massacre by the US Army 7) Removing recognition of Taiwan as the legitimate China to take advantage of the Sino-soviet split 8) Provoking an aggressive reaction by US nuclear material placement in NATO ally Turkey Of course all of this to us, the layman, is a significant failure of decision making but those involved in the world of politics would argue against that. _Remember in the world of geopolitics there are no allies only nations and national interests_ I highly recommend you watch CGP Grey Rules for Rulers
@@rejvaik00 You could also add the expansion of NATO after the fall of The Warsaw Pack and The Soviet Union.The United States is always talking about peace but when the opportunity to do it they don't.
Mistakes made by the French: 1. Putting yourself into a defensive position from which you can't escape. 2. Assuming that your enemy is inferior by default and underestimating their logistics. 3. Placing too much faith in air power (resupplying, air strikes, evacuating wounded and flying in fresh soldiers). 4. Not covering the high ground.# It's questionable if the French could've won the battle if they had avoided these mistakes. But even doing all this still wouldn't have negated the vast numerical superiority of the Vietnamese forces and their advantage in artillery.
@Corristo89 Regardless of their other mistakes, if the French had the same airpower and airlift capabilities as the Americans did, they probably still win this battle.
@@command_unit7792 We did it at Khe Sahn. Out gunned by NVA like the military brass did about the same thing as if they never heard of Dien Bien Phu. Mission was supposed to be interdiction. Too busy for any of that but B52s bombing right close to the base probably saved it from the same fate. Closed that base right after Tet. Military brass called it victory for the body count . . . I'll call it a close call from my stateside cheap seat.
I think the biggest thing about this video is the last part - just how easily such a historic event can be brushed aside and almost totally forgotten except by historians and military enthusiasts. I can only imagine the horror, pain and probable anger Rolf R felt when he returned to find the memorial itself was forgotten.
Or it means that historical memory and influence isn't necessarily symmetric and universal - for the French, colonialism, and perhaps the cold war - it's a turning point. Maybe for the Vietnamese it stands out less among the battles they fought on their road to independence. Or preserving old battlefields may not be a priority.
@@davestevens6283 You're right in that a battle has far different connotations depending on which side is looking back at it and how it helped shape history. I should have been a bit more detailed since I was thinking more in terms of the human factor of those involved in the fighting rather than the socio-political side of remembering. It reminded me of the armchair generals of WWI with how many lives were thrown away for a small advancement across the battlefield.
The best time to preserve that battlefield is during the first 50 years after the war before much of it is destroyed by time. Unfortunately, after the battle of Dien Bien Phu, we also had to confront the US imperialists and their minions, then the pol pot of Cambodia and China on the northern border, until 1990 the gunfire stopped on the border. our territory. And the most important thing, we were embargoed by the US during that time, so we did not have the financial conditions to be able to preserve that relic. Hopefully current efforts will preserve what remains of the old battlefield. A people who have had to fight throughout history from the beginning to the present, I have great pity for our people.
I love your Geographics series. Dien Bien Phu was a testament to the arrogance and corruption that belied European conquest/colonization efforts around the world, and the inability of not only the French and English, but also the United States, in failing to see that indigenous people wanted to rule themselves, whatever form of government they chose. The Viet Minh were underestimated by the French, a mistake that nobody seems to learn in any foreign war.
I just had to study this battle in my class, Great Military Campaigns, a month ago. This was so helpful with gaining a better understanding of the conflict.
my grand mother shared a story about my father died during Indochina war. My father was the only one in his family who had continued education till he graduated high school. there are only 2 students was chosen by the French to go study aboard in Japan for the entire central region. he told my grand mother that the french did not want Vietnamese to be educated. Many Vietnamese just finished elementary school and their education ended. my father told my grand mother that he did not want to see his children and Vietnamese children had no education and he did not want to see the french killing Vietnamese so he decided not to go to Japan to study. He joined Vietminh and fight against France. He is one of those Vietnamese soldier pulling tanks, machine gun with legs and arms to Dien Bien Phu. He said "nothing lasts, the french have to go home." till these days, every time i am about to give up something that i do, I remember my father who moved tanks and heavy artillery up to Mountain to fight against the french...he reminded of his "mission impossible". He taught me a lesson about determination and willingness for not giving up. there is nothing that i can't do. My father also taught me when i was a kid "you want to be happy, you have to let the past go". If you are foreigners coming to Vietnam to visit, you see Vietnamese having no hatred against the American, French, Spaniard, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino...they still smile at you with open arm welcome. i am in 50's living in US. if any country wages war against Vietnam, i will return to my home land and fight till i die like my father did. Period.
The artilleries were pulled up the mountains surrounding the French by hand. The Viet Minh had dozens of men pulling the gun up and two soldiers at the bottom would use a wedge to lodge into the wheels so that the gun would not roll back down. They did so inches by inches until the gun reaches their position.
That's how I got a small tractor into the back of a small truck to take it for repairs. My brother had wedges, and I pushed it up the ramp using a wood beam and the science of leverage. People seem to always be surprised that 2-3 people can move a very heavy object up a hill or ramp, but it is doable even if it is slow.
@@indoorsandout3022 yeah, but you and your brother are two healthy adults, this is impressive because the Viet Minh are not in their best condition, they are mostly starved, tired from marching, and had to carry all that stuffs up many hills full of rocks and pebbles
Another interesting thing: According to Frantz Fanon, a french intellectual whose main topic was decolonization, the battle of Dien Bien Phu had a big part in decolonization in the whole world, since a lot of colonizing countries chose to decolonize to avoid the risk of another Dien Bien Phu.
at 68 i'm a history nut and i love your documentaries ...many of my co-workers fought around that time in vietnam and i know a little about khe sanh and the tet offensive...my cousin was killed in the city of hue around valentines day '68...now, he's a name on a wall, ROBERT PIERCY, a proud Marine...anyways, i appreciate your vids...peace
Back in the 60's this battle was not very well known. The first time I heard of it was while I was serving in South Vietnam with the United States Army in 1970. One of my fellow soldiers, a fellow from New York City, who had a bit of college under his belt, but not enough to be an officer had studied it in college and told me of the horrors of that battle. To be honest it sort of scared the shit out of me, since at the time we were in a pretty much secure area that felt very safe and almost like being on American soil except for the few small off colored people who spoke a funny language who worked on the base, cleaning our quarters, polishing our boots and burning our shit on a daily basis. Things did change over the year I was there, and I did become aware that the combat pay we received for serving in that little backward part of the world would indeed be earned after a fashion.
Wow, you invaded another country and then like "being on American soil except for the few small off colored people who spoke a funny language who worked on the base"
@@bichdaovo6476 To be honest with you, I found the Vietnamese people very nice. Most could speak English very well, and I respected that since I could only sputter a few cuss words in Vietnamese or French. Most of the folks I had contact with were very intelligent, even the gals who shined our boots and swept out our rooms, made our beds and such for a few bucks a week. Most all of them could speak several langages, the result of the many occupiers of the nation. Many could speak French, a langage I studied in High School and only remembered a few phrases, as well as their native tounge and English. Sure they could have well been VC at night but for me, they were, well not friends, good acquaintances. The gal who ran the Pizza ovens at the NCO Club was a very nice lady, and used to joke with us all the time. I can't say that I invaded another nation, well not personally, I joined the US Army after I found that jobs were not hanging off of trees in the US at that time, and the Army would pay me enough to support my growing family. I never asked to go to Vietnam, but was ordered by my nation to go, and being a good soldier, I went where I was told, and did what I was told for 14 months, then returned to "The World" and continued on with my life, after 8 years in the Army, I went on to become a Police Officer, a job that I served in for over 24 year when an accident left me permantly totally disabled. Now I live off of Workman's Comp and Social Security. I recently lost my wife of 51 years and 4 days, I miss her so much it nearly kills me every day, and as a secondary note, I miss her Social Security check that helped pay the bills nearly as much.
The people who you think that they speak funny language they could well be a Viet Cong and they kicked your ass ! What a small minded person you are ! Lol
One more comment on a relatively little-known aspect of the Vietnam ‘experience’. During WW II, Ho Chi Minh’s Communist Vietminh guerrilla forces fought against the Japanese, who had ejected the French and occupied the country. His efforts became known to the American Office of Strategic Service, the OSS, who parachuted a team of French-speaking specialists into Vietnam to supply and train Ho’s forces. The team, code named DEER, found Ho dying of an unknown illness, probably a combination of malaria and other causes. The DEER mission’s American medic saved Ho’s life. When the war ended peremptorily with the dropping of the atomic bombs in late 1945, Ho declared the establishment of the Independent Republic of Vietnam. His American OSS advisors were empathetic to Ho’s political objectives but were instructed to refrain from getting involved. In the vacuum existing after the surrender of the Japanese, the Allied forces sent a British division from Burma to provide stability until the French could return. The British forces were commanded by a General Gracey. Ho attempted to meet with Gracey, but the British general would not see him, and did not recognize Ho’s political movement. Ho’s forces began to fight with Gracey’s British troops in sporadic engagements. Gracey’s jungle-hardened soldiers killed several thousand of Ho’s men by the time the French returned in late 1945. As a side note, while his forces were engaged fighting Ho’s guerrillas, Gracey released surrendered Japanese troops from their imprisonment, armed them, and used them to provide security in the British rear areas while his forces were off fighting the Communist guerrillas. This 1945 British experience in Vietnam is one reason the British said ‘no thanks’ to Lyndon Johnson when he tried his classic arm-twisting to get Britain involved in the American war in Vietnam. While Australia and New Zealand did commit forces, the British stayed out.
@@LogieT2K liberals aren't communists any more than conservatives are fascists. Constant demonization of well meaning political opponents is more of a danger to democracy than communism ever was.
@@finiteenergy7155 please clarify when talking about Americans. I'm sure you're aware that we have a lot of progressive liberals who have tried to get socialized medicine but it's continually demonized by the right as communism. Ordinary people have been brainwashed since the cold war so all one needs to say that you're a communist and it knee jerk reaction.
@@hmoobmeeka Not the same thing as the US and Vietnam. The U.S government knew it was going into a losing battle and used 'undesirable' people as cannon fodder.
You think they would have learned their lesson after the likes of Weygand, and Gamelin, got steamrolled during Fall Gelb. I mean no army could pass through the Ardennes, well except the Germans, twice.
The best books on this pivotal battle are “Hell in a Very Small Place” by Bernard Fall and “The Battle of Dienbienphu” by Jules Roy. Fall also wrote “Street Without Joy”, a second book about the French experience in their war in Indochina. The book takes its title from the name given to Vietnam’s Highway One, the main north-south road of Colonial French Vietnam, by the French Union forces that fought endless battles and ambushes along its. length. This Most notable of these was the ambush and massacre by Vietminh Communist forces of a fortified regimental truck convoy of soldiers and artillery known as Mobile Group 100 (Group Mobile 100) at the Mang Yang Pass in Vietnam’s Central Highlands in June 1954. Fall was considered one of the foremost historian of the French Indochina War. Ironically, he was killed by a land mine while accompanying US Marines in 1967, on an operation during the American Indochina War, along the very same Highway One, the “Street Without Joy”, he had chronicled in his book.
When I was much younger I got to jump with the French Foreign Legion. Some of the older guys were veterans of the battle of Dien Bien Phu. I will never forget a segment from Hell in a very small place, where the night before the surrender, about 100 or so of the paratroopers who were still physically intact were given permission to attempt a breakout. 100 against 100 thousand, they fixed bayonets and went into the night. Oddly enough, most of them got through. This leads me to speculate that General Giáp knew all abythe impending breakout, and gave orders to just get out of the way and let them through, knowing that these paras would most likely just go home, and this is what the Vietnamese wanted anyway. Besides, why capture these large, healthy Europeans with their large appetites, when he would be responsible for feeding them. Giáp lived to the ripe old age of 105. This leads me to believe that basic human decency contributes to a person’s longevity.
Fred. You were fortunate to do some jumps with the French. Was that at their parachute school at Pau? I remember Fall’s account of the breakout attack by the legionnaires, as he wrote, “under the ghostly light of the parachute flares”, which I got to know only too well, in my two deployments to Vietnam in ‘68 during “Tet” and again in ‘69. I have always resented the term “tour” used to describe the one-year assignment to Vietnam in our war, as though our travels had been arranged by the firm of Thomas Cook & Sons…
about the Mang Yang Pass battle from vietnamese's side: that battle from PAVN was an unexpected result of "operation Atlante" - the 96th regiment "Big Brother of 5th interzone" to evading the attack from french in the Operation Atlante, move up from the southern central to Central Highland. And while setting up new base in the central highland, scouting party inform the commander of the 96th that there's a french position without any trench or fortification, only canvas tent. And being too frustrated from running, he ordered a night attack, by 40th battalion with extensive support from artillery of the 96th regiment. And the rest is history. The 96th commander does only know the identity of the ambushed troop - the GM100 after the battle ended and the transmission from the GM100 commander was intercepted by the 96th, and because of the Dien Bien Phu result, the French are so afraid of falling into another meat grinder, and assuming the moblie of the force was leaked, pullout all the troops in the An Khe area.
DITTO- "We dont want American boys to have to do the fighting that South Vietnamese boys should do". That did not work either. Although the USA did avoid "our Dien Ben Phu" @KHE SANH the final result was the same. To paraphrse the old Bruce Springsteen song: "CHARLIES" STILL THERE- WE ARE ALL GONE"
I'm german and my grandpa joined the french foreign legion when he was a young man in the early 50's, looking for the adventure of his life, and he signed a contract for five years. We still have his service journal, which states that he fought in Indochina and after that as a paratrooper in Algeria. I don't even want to imagine what these young men had to witness.. It's no wonder that he never talked about the war.
Ich würde sagen, dass er hätte interessante und schreckliche Geschichten, die ich gern hören würde, aber ich weiß nicht, ob ich mich an sie erinnern möchte. Entschulidigung für mein schlechtes Deutsch. Ich bin Student und kann nicht eine Gelegenheit zum Üben ignorieren. Doch bin ich ehrlich: es scheint mir interessant.
My Grandfather was also in the Legion in Indochina and his best friend and legionnaire brother was German also. My grandfather barely ever talks about his time in the legion and even less about Indochina Dien Bien Phu all I know is that his German friend died from a blast and that my Grandfather was seriously injured by shrapnel and bares the scars of this to this day both physically and mentally.
I've always admired Giap. Given his success in three different wars over the course of 34 years, I have to believe that he was most likely the greatest general since Napoleon and by far the greatest general of the twentieth century.
MoreBagsThanLipton I'm a Vietnamese I'm sure I know Giap and his battle more than you. Do you think Vietnamese racist? Yes we are, we are racist to the point that 91% of our population is only one race. That fact & number speak for me
This is a battle I've never heard of. It does sound as if it was one of the bloodiest battles of that time. Thank you for adding new historical events.
Imagine you entrench yourself in your final strongholds, hoping that the terrain would be a deterrence to enemy advance and heavy weaponry and the security of said strongholds would be enough to fend them off, but in the end you realize all you did was digging yourself a grave and didn't even know it. The French were effectively cut off from all reinforcement, and most of the supply drops were intercepted. Gets even worse that they didn't even know the Vietnamese forces were literally pulling heavy artillery and anti-air up the hills/mountains surrounding the region, a feat that shouldn't be possible due to how risky it was and due to lack of trucks to make the trip, yet they didn't care. There was one Vietnamese hero who sacrificed himself when an artillery slipped and went rolling down hill, he died jamming himself under the artillery to stop it. All that risk paid off in the end as they shelled those strongholds to hell.
@@thecommentguy9380 The Vietnamese here's name was Tô Vĩnh Diện, and the artillery piece that he saved was a 37 mm anti-aircraft gun. The gun survived the war and is displayed in a museum in Vietnam today.
The french troops put up one hell of a fight. In the final stages of the battle, without the ability to evacuate the wounded and defeat imminent, some french machine guns were manned by multiple amputees. A one armed legionnaire firing the gun and another two one handed amputees doing the work of one able body man, reloading the machine gun.
My late father in law was an “advisor” prior to the Vietnam War. I do not think the army has ever even admitted he was there. My ex husband knows more of what happened there, but I know that in his final days when he was old, sick and dying, he didn’t sleep much. My MIL said he was having nightmares about it again. He would often have waking dreams it seemed and he would be back in a warehouse trying to get someone out. This was a horrible experience for those involved that haunted them their whole lives.
I remember when I watched Apocalypse Now and the part where the French plantation owner talked about how badly they lost in Dien Bien Phu. It sounded like hell
Time magazine, issue of November 22, 1954, published on the cover of President Ho Chi Minh's portrait and spent five pages talking about his background and career along with Vietnam's victory over France in the Dien Bien Phu campaign. This magazine emphasized: "With the victory (Dien Bien Phu), Mr. Ho Chi Minh's prestige reached new heights in Asia. Nationalists in many countries, although they were anti-communist, also cannot help but be proud of the feat of an Asian country's army defeating those who were their "boss" from Europe to... Under the leadership of Ho Chi Minh, Viet Minh forces had the most effective jungle fighting army in Southeast Asia, had the most talented general in Southeast Asia, Vo Nguyen Giap, had the most solid political organization led by Ho Chi Minh, and had the best qualifications. adept leadership"...
I just read an excellent book about the Battle of Dien Bien Phu called The Last Valley. Then I read a book about The siege at Khe Sanh. There are similarities but there are many more differences. For one thing Dien Bien Phu is in a valley. Khe Sanh is on a plateau. Also the Marines controlled the high ground. And of course we have B-52s. Something the French wish they had.
Comedy break : I can hold the line whilst going without food. I can even hold the line by going cold-turkey off of cigarettes. But G-DAMN I CAN'T hold the line without my COFFEE !
I never knew about this particular military battle, I knew something about the Vietnam war, but this video really changed my perception regarding the Vietnam war! Thank you so much, Simon and your team!
This should be one of the most iconic battle in 20s, one of the French worst defeated.. It ended the colonization era. But seem like they want to keep in low😅
To add a bit more context as to why the French chose Dien Bien Phu and employed a hedgehog defense there, the French had previously scored a major victory at Na San using just such a strategy. At Na San, Viet Minh forces launched human wave assaults against the hedgehog defenses and incurred staggering loses to French artillery and airpower. The Na San defeat forced Giap to rethink his approach to conventional battle and he understood that he needed to counter overwhelming French superiority in artillery and air. The French on the other hand came away feeling vindicated and believed that if they could repeat the victory of Na San several more times, they could break the Viet Minh. Thus the French set out at Dien Bien Phu to replicate the success at Na San, hence the reason for picking a seemingly isolated and vulnerable location in order to entice Giap to commit large numbers of troops to defeat.
Like the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae, The French Legionaries "were not defeated, they were only killed". That is a quote from a movie about Dien Bien Phu.
It's amazing how often armies that perceived superior against less well equipped armies have been defeated through history. It just occurred to me as the next video in my playlist is Gettysburg. Of course there's many more battles with the expected victory going to those with superior weapons etc, but it's impressive when the underdog wins.
Jennie and Redned both true. The sooner the whole world instils direct democracy where the people all vote on pretty much everything, then we will see an end to war. Its when we have leaders and an elite class of some form who own the means of producing not just the weapons, but hold the contracts to supply the military(and get all the rebuilding contracts afterwards), that we have those people in our society(that also own and control the media) manipulating us into a war, that's only in their favour. War is never in the favour of the everyday man in the street, so they would never have any interest in attacking another nation. To most civilians, war just means the potential of having your home and property and loved ones blown to pieces. Its going to take some time and doing, but we already have the technology to make it work on some level right now. Just look how millions vote on Xfactor or Americas got talent and all those other dumb tv shows. Millions vote in seconds, what is stopping us having a system in place where the citizens have a secure account and vote on at least the bigger issues concerning our countries, our societies and our lives? The control freaks otherwise known as the elite class, of course. Expect them to fight tooth and nail against this. But it is the future of the human race. Quite simply we rid ourselves of the control freaks in our societies and we will then build a much brighter, lucrative for all future, where war is just something we read about in the history books.
great work!! when i first began to read history seriously (1981) the first book i read was: Hell In A Very Small Place: The Siege Of Dien Bien Phu by Bernard Fall
Great video as usual, a little short but with 25 min it's hard to get into more details. If you guys are interested into Dien Bien Phu and French Foreign Legion in Indochina i highly recommand the following documentaries on youtube (french dub, english sub available): Vietnam : le siège de Dien Bien Phu (Roman Karmen - 1955) Cao Bang, les soldats sacrifiés d'Indochine
Ahhh............... as my Buddy told me there are three Wars that are Unregulated Human Carnage The Civil War, World War 1 , and the Vietnam War. Just pure carnage of Death and Loss of life that is Staggering.
@@13lochie not like those Three. War is always bloody but those Three in particular are Pure Carnage. In most Conflicts You can point out a Reason or a boiling point . But in the case of those Three you have men in Trenches Wondering why all that suffering was for. Like the brake down of Human Respect made them Become Killing fields . You can still find ghosts and Remnants of those Conflicts in each area. Think about the Death the fall of Saigon Caused? Or Sherman's match to the Atlantic, or The battle of Verdun. All three have one thing in common it wasn't about gaining ground it was about A kill count .
@@blackpilloverdose1013 I was gonna reply to your original comment with a swift "Dude..." but since you do have a point here, I'll have to NOT do that. I really like doing that so be proud of yourself;)
@@YeeSoest thanks Brotha as a kid I was Off reading about human History while everyone wanted to play ball. All three wars to me are extremely interesting. Out of the three Vietnam is chock full of conspiracies and cover ups
Some interest facts overlooked at Dien Bien Phu, that General Christian de Castries named Beatrice, Gabrielle, Ann-Marie and Isabelle susposedly after his mistresses (Busy Man)!! General Võ Nguyên Giáp used Sun Tzu (was a huge fan and implemented) "The Art of War" philosphies to defeat and then later to beat the Americans in the Vietnam War and gain Indepence for Vietnam. Been to Vietnam in 2018 and have a total different from the typical Western View point that the Viet Cong were the bad guys!! I recommend visiting for yourself and visit HCM City and the War Museum to understand the brutuality of the West in Vietnam.
I visited a bar in Saigon during the Mid-1960's. In my conversation with the bar owner, I noticed that she spoke English with a distinct German accent. When I asked her where she learned her English. She told me that her husband had taught her. He was a German in the Foreign Legion who had died at Dien Bien Phu.
As a son of a US Vietnam veteran I would appreciate any efforts on your part to cover every detail of the Vietnam War it is a good thing to never forget lest we repeat such errors in human thought my father fought in 1967-1968 with the ninth infantry. Their division symbol was a red, white; and Blue flower the troops nicknamed the insignia “psychedelic bubble gum” come to think of it that would be a good way to layout your Vietnam war videos by explaining each US divisions engagements and maybe cover both sides of the war.
Fellow son of a Vietnam vet. Great idea. Of course I don't think my father's unit, 68th AHC of the 145th Aviation Battalion, MACV, would rate inclusion. My dad extended twice; as he told me, he got "addicted to the risk." But 2500 combat hours in the air, 25 Air Medals and a V device which would have been a DFC except for company politics¹, are nothing to sneeze at. ¹and, somehow, a Combat Infantryman's Badge
@@stephenwright8824 yes my father brought home his air medal its an eagle with lightning bolts grasped within it's talons flying downward at maybe a 45° angle brought home a purple heart with an oak leaf cluster for being injured and continuing fighting twice first time grenade shrapnel injury second time mortar shrapnel. Those medals are noted on his headstone in Asheville, N.C. veterans cemetery he succumbed to side effects of agent orange exposure on December 12'th 2006 ischemic heart disease took him
@@beaubeaukitty5301 On the effects of dioxin: me and my brother were born with diseases that were not previously suffered by anyone in my family. Type 1 diabetes for him, hydrocephalus for me. Gratefully he's still alive. Irony: for years he had a heart murmur due to having had rheumatic fever as a kid and still passed his Army entrance physical.
Interesting fact. The Battle of Khe Sanh in 1968 was an attempt at repeating Dien Bien Phu, but for the Americans this time. Like DBP, Khe Sanh was an isolated American base deep in the jungle, hosting a large number of US marines that could only be resupplied by air. The thought of being able to inflict a defeat on the scale of DBP on the Americans at Khe Sanh would be monumental for the NVA and Giap. However, it would not be the case. US airpower in 1968 was world's away from French airpower in 1954. Unlike at DBP, the US airbridge with Khe Sanh could not be broken despite Giap's best efforts. Employing a tactic called the 'Super Gaggle', the Americans would suppress every known and suspected NVA anti-aircraft and artillery position with air and land based artillery for a few minutes, during which a flight of US helicopters would fly in, unload supplies, and take off. The tactic required pin point timing and careful navigation through the hills and valleys for the resupply craft but the Americans succeeded and Khe Sanh could not be starved out. Additionally, the US marines maintained control of a series of important hills around Khe Sanh. At DBP, the French had lost control of important vantage points in the valley which enabled the Viet Minh to bring down accurate fire down on the base. At Khe Sanh, US marines clung doggedly to them no matter how many bodies Giap threw at them. Finally, Giap's attempts at using trench works to undermine and cut off parts of the Khe Sanh base were repeatedly erased by flights of B-52 bombers who carpet bombed the NVA trenches, destroying them and burying the sappers. Giap eventually realized he would not be able to replicate the decisive victory at DBP. American airpower and the tenacity of the US marines were insurmountable and rather than order a pointless general assault, Giap withdrew. NVA propaganda would later claim that they never intended to take the base, but it was part of long strategy to draw US forces away from South Vietnamese city centers in preparation for the Tet offensive. Ironically, not long after the battle, the US dismantled the base after it lost it's strategic value.
@CrusaderPRT You sound like Churchill talking about the Irish War of Independence. Giap lived by Ho Chi Minh's determined phrase, "If we have to fight for ten thousand days¹ to win our freedom, then we will." His dedication to the idea of a free Vietnam made him a great general, sources of foreign support and losses in battle notwithstanding. ¹according to Michael McLean, the exact length in time of the American intervention in Vietnam
@CrusaderPRT it's much more honorable to bomb single platoons with dozens of bombers at a time, every time, like the Americans did in Vietnam. That's what I call fighting.
Unfortunately the Americans evidently never heard of this battle as they proceeded to underestimate the Viet Minh for the next 21 years until finally also defeated and driven out in disgrace in the eyes of the world.
As usual, great content, informative and enjoyable 👌🏽 And good end piece to it to, reminder of why this channel (and the others in the 'SW family') are a go-to favorite.
No, here you see japanese soldiers saluting the arrival of french commandos in Indochina after Japan's surrender in 1945, you thought they were british because the specific unit shown here was trained in part by the SOE during WW2 and as such wore some british gear and berets. This picture is not well suited to talk about the 1954 battle of Dien Bien Phu...
Giap was the leader of Vietnamese army in this battle but the Vietnamese side tactics were forged by a Chinese advisor group headed by veteran general Wei Guoqing. The French intelligence also failed to account the scope of Chinese military support for the VietMinh. The former sent a lot of Chinese nationalist and Japanese howitzers and Soviet AA guns to the latter before the battle. The French chose Dien Bien Phu because it had a small Japanese airfield there and because of its position near Laos. The French were also confident in Dien Bien Phu because they won a similar but smaller battle at Na San under general Salan leadership. Unfortunately for them, the VietMinh this time had better prepared with new shiny howitzers and AA guns sent from China and this became a nightmare and a disaster for France. Moreover, Dien Bien Phu, in the eye of Navarre, was only secondary objective compared to his more ambitious Atlante operation in the midland of Vietnam. For him, it could be an acceptable loss in term of military but it became a politic disaster for France like we all know.
Totally right. this story teller forgot to tell the strong chinese involvement. it also failed to speak about the fact the French prime Ministre was already negociating a french total withdraw from Indochina in Geneva, BEFORE the battle. There was here a true gap between the french Generals which were fighting to keep the Indochinese colony in the french empire, when Mendes-France had alreday decided to abandon it. THIS will explain the actions of french Generals and Colonels against the french civil gov during the next war of decolonisation in Algeria (especially when the french generals will have learnt from their mistakes in the Indocinese war of independence). In Dien Bien Phu, without Chinese officers, without heavy chinese artillery and without the numerous chinese AA guns, no viet victory, at best, it's a draw as french plan had some failures (the withdraw by air transportation combined with a retreat through the viet lines was a pure dream)... Even with a crushing superiority in alkl sectors (numbers of troops, artillery, heavy guns, and AA guns, higher position to counter battery the professional french artillery), Giap suffered severe casualties (far far more than the french), and his army was no more able to mount a new offensive for months, and french still had 150 to 250k troops in Indochina (many suppletives to add too)... terrific battle, heavy casualties for nothing as independence was already won as french gov had decided to give up (and it was strongly logic due to the more and more chinese involvement) )
With or without Chinese involvement the viet will not back down to the French any more .they are prepared to fight with the French no mater how long it will take . the Vietnamese army had become of age .the Vietnamese people now are United army not segregated in a small rebellion group like first 20 years under French occupation .it took the French 20 yrs to stamped out the small rebellion Vietnamese.
@@toothpick5932 small rebellion ? in 1944-45, french troops were not even 10k... and Japanese executed most of them before leaving. even at the peak of the rebellion, the most french troops were about 100k with 250k suppletive (in which 1/3 were "double agents", 1/3 were truly willing to help the french, and the last third was waiting to see who would take the advantage between the vietcong and the french)... 90% of the french army was in France and in Germany, the red army was the true threat, also americans had unauthorised french to use big weapons they give them, USA forced France to send 99% of the received weapons in Europe to face USSR... In 1945, there was no chance that west germany had an army, the occupation was still too much in mind for French. UK had a little land army, that means that the strongest land army on the continent was France and it was just recoveing, slightly, day after day. France could have sent more navy, troops and air force in Indochina BUT they didn't because it was a too higher price. Also french people was mostly opposed to this war, it was far, it was unjust, it had no good reasons etc... Never the less, the Chinese involvement was decisive and I agree, Viet didn't want to give up... But Honestly, the "red gov" of Vietnam once reunited after the american withdrawal (I speak now after the second war there, without the French), you can't call it a "democratic" state. If you were liberal and not communist, you were executed in Vietnam, the viet red power was killing democrates and not only the colaborators of the French nor the americans. In Vietnam, you were able to be sent in camp like russian gulags (even harsher than them) or even killed for no reason excepted you were "suspect"... it was even harsher than french terror under revolution era (1793-1794)... And it affected neighbours of Vietnam, I hope you don't considere Pol pot as a great democrate nor a good boy... French colonistaion wasn't heaven for sure, but Sovietic type of the vietnamese gov was far more hell than French... It would make Tito or Stalin some sweet boys in comparison.
I am talking about 1930 or before , the rebellions were small and not organised and segregated. They was fighting with the French like they always had done with Chinese many hundred years ago .Not in 40 or 50 when Ho chi Ming managed to United the people and he was well organised as well as he had realised that in order to beat the French the people need modern equipment not stick or stone .so he asked for help from USA or Chinese or Russian . In a sense that the French had brought VN to 20 century by force. The army 50k fighters at Dien bien phu and please don’t count the peasants who help to build the road to the mountain or carried guns and foods for the soldiers. If you count them all as they are soldiers. At that time even my parents and grand parents helping the VietMinh because Vietnamese hate them . They donated food and hid the
JP C . French negotiations for total withdraw from Indochina ? If that was the case why DBP 15000 men ? And why asking the USA to drop atom bombs on us ? They were hoping to win that battle so that they would be in a better position at the negotiating table at Geneva . may be they wanted to remain for another 80 yrs ! God only know the truths. Ho Chi Minh desperately wanted to avoid the war He was in Paris for the talk with the French before the fighting break out. His world was” it was all a masquerade “ from the French and “there will be war and there was no way out” “it will be between a tiger and elephant .....” if the French were truely wanted to get out of Indochina they would have plenty of opportunity to do so. It was a blamed excuse like the same excuse for them to invade VN in the first place.
The first 100 people to go to blinkist.com/geographics are going to get unlimited access for one week to try it out. You’ll also get 25% off if you want the full membership.
Yeah he does
Hey
simon: please do a video on the Bhopal disaster
WTF is Blinkist?
Simon i have one piece of advice. Never use that low rolling bass track starting around 9:50 under your own talking again without turning it way down. On a good pair of headphones it's so overpowering that it's almost uncomfortable to listen to continuously because it's got harmonics in the infrabass range, which have a tendency to cause anxiety and make people really uncomfortable. That and it makes you hard to hear because of how much louder it is than your voice, with the bass being powerful enough to literally blow your voice away.
*Giap* :"I´m bored of teaching history. Time to make it."
pol pot too
@@charlesissleepy well yea but he also taught geography, French literature, and ironically enough: *morals*.
@@KhoaLe-uc2ny wow someone watched a second video
@user-go3en4to5v morals go out the window in war though. Anyone who has been to war knows the good guys arent good guys in reality
@@KhoaLe-uc2nynot really ironic, it is morally good to end colonial oppression
I work as a machinist with a few Vietnamese guys. And the stories they tell from Vietnam are some of the scariest things I have ever heard. What a tough, fascinating culture and history these people have.
I work with guy who was a south vietnamese artillery officer. The stories he has of the war and his escape from Vietnam to America are horrific. His suffering makes all my first world problems seem pathetic by comparison, and he took it all in stride and has the most can do attitude of anyone I've worked with.
I am a machinist and worked with so many boat people and soldiers, was even over there in the navy. I always found these guys the coolest and best folks in the world. Honest hard working super smart loyal, only thing is they are hard to understand sometimes. made me mad that people wouldn't take the time to understand them and they never got the respect they deserved. if you asked them their story you would have a true friend. also the guys from laos and cambodia. they were real men.
I have a friend who was in the south vietnamese army and served alongside American troops since he spoke English and he has some similar stories. He's only told me a couple since he starts to get choked up even talking about it even 45 years later. He fled to a thai refugee camp and got over to the US thanks to an American GI and it's too emotional to even go back to visit
Can some of you guys say some of the stories?
@@philipfortygin7660.... Sure... A good VN friend told me stories. As a child he and friends would go out in to the woods and collect large wasp nests. Wrap them in banana leaves and bring them home. Then throw them over the walls of American bases.
His father would transport orders out of saigon to the field commanders. He would memorise the orders, hide under the seat of the mayor's car and get driven through the Americans road blocks. Then walk and hitch hike north.
I am French, and Dien Bien Phu is one of our worst military defeat of all time, usually very little known from the rest of the world. I want to thank you and give you a lot of credit for presenting that History to the world and just knowing about it. Pretty amazing.
France deserved it
The Legion fought and died with Honor. DeGaulle and the scum officer corps should burn in hell
I thought May 1940 was the worst. 😂😂😂 Sprechen sie Deutsche, Frenchy?
@@andrewince8824 napoleon and my homies on the road to take Berlin in 6 day 🏳️🏳️
Prussian fighters🙊
I'm English, and I remember my mother telling how shocked she was at the news that Dien Bien Phu had fallen. The siege was closely followed in Great Britain.
I'm a US Army vet. I never understand why people make fun of the French military. Their commanders have let them down but the bravery of the regular soldier cannot be questioned. But the Vietnamese had a right to fight for their independence. They fought hard and won. Colonialism is not ok.
You just solved at least three controversies in a couple of coincise sentences. Well said. Please continue roaming in comments sections to settle disputes.
Idk I mean people who actually know history tend to laugh at the Italian army not the French. There would be no United States of America without the French soldiers
@@aaronbradley3232 We definitley owe France a debt of gratitude. Didn't know the Italian Army was laughed at.
Because they arrogantly tried to recolonize a country and got their arses handed to them
An interesting perspective from an American soldier. I'm not being disrespectful, I am pleased with your attitude, as a Canadian of a certain age I grew up with American propaganda about the evils of communism and the Domino theory. I also grew up under the shadow of nuclear war. Vietnam was the poster child for the war on Communism. As I got older I came to see it for what it was, just another form of colonization whether by the Russians, Chinese or the Americans. The people on the ground did the lions share of the dying.
My grandfather did take part on that war as a French soldier, he is Moroccan(North African hehe).
Thank you for making this episode. I did miss him, he passed away 12 years ago, he did always told me to never underestimate those Asians, and to be patient as them.
Apparently the Moroccans were notorious among the Viet's as brutal murderers and rapists. It led to a stigma with the American black soldiers during the war since the locals assumed they would act the same
@@mattt6078 lol no . Moroccans and Algerians looks just like French or Southern Europeans , The Viet just assumed black American soldiers as slave soldiers just like the French foreign legions , French colonial armies, and their slave soldiers. I dont know about Moroccan , but plenty of Algerian POW in Dien Bien Phu would then came home and spark their Algerian war against the French overlords.
Tom viktorsson not all look european in Algeria many Tuareg and Amazigh Algerians and Algerins of other ethnic groups like the Haratin are “black” and in Southern Morocco you will find Harathin so it’s possible for some of them to have made it over their
@@Tolpuddle581...much as many vets do at The Wall.
@@philgiglio7922 I don't think that person was arguing against the right to cry
What Dien Bien Phu gained in growth, they've lost in landscape and history. Whether it's remembered as a victory for Vietnamese independence, or a defeat of a foreign colonial power, it should not be forgotten, and I'm glad to hear that Vietnam has been taking steps to preserve its history.
I am Vietnamese and we will never forget the battle of Dien Bien Phu. We had to try for independence until 1975 and the battles with Cambodia and China in 1979 and 1988(Vietnam Sino war). It was not until 1995 that Vietnam was able to lift the embargo. Therefore, for more than 30 years, we have only had the economic conditions to preserve history.
@@nguyenthanhtung4520 Wasn’t Vietnam in a state of near constant war for like 5 decades (1940s to 1990s)?
That’s honestly tied with Afghanistan for how long their war has been going on (Afghanistan has been fighting since 1978).
@@Kaiserboo1871 we were in constant struggle from 1930-1990, only in 1992 did we actually get to rebuild
@@nguyenthanhtung4520 wtf are you talking about? The US wasn't trying to rule Vietnam and in fact if the North didn't resist a democratic Vietnam, Vietnam would be better off then what is today. Today's Vietnam is ruled by a bunch of communist gangsters. They steal everything.
forgiveness and move on is better options, after all it were just another day in the long years of brutal conflict in Vietnam , a big day , but just another day in office. after all our forefathers fought the wars for our peace, prosperity love happiness, independence and self determinations, all sacrifices are in vains if it is just for more hatred and wars. we have to forgive , be friends with everybody we could , and prepare for the wars to come.
Your knowledge of Dien Bien Phu battle is even better than a lot of young Vietnamese today. Thank you for sharing. It reminds me the history lessons that I learned from schools over 40 years ago.
Just love Vietnam..the country it’s people..I travelled through here in 2018 and all of Vietnam ..top to bottom..It’s such a beautiful country and that’s from Sapa far north all the way to Ca Mau in the Mekong Delta..Learnig a lot about the Vietnamese you soon realise how determined as a people they are when it comes to defending their amazing country..they would never give it up..and if I was Vietnamese I wouldnt have never given it up either..
love you too
Le
The food is simply horrifying.
@@chriscoll6493 stick to unseasoned dishes, your palate isn't ready.
@@paulohaulo3961 Nah, he's just an uncultured knobbo, you come across people like that every so often. Every cuisine I have ever tried has good stuff, some more, some less. I've eaten plenty of things a lot of people I know would never touch, and found many of them to be absolutely delicious, like whole pan fried baby octopuses, Japanese blow-fish(Fugu - the deadly one) etc. Trying new stuff just isn't for everyone, which is fine, but the one thing I don't think is fine is bagging on it like Chris here.
Thank you for this insightful history. I helped evacuate Vietnam in Operation New Life in 1975 while in the United States Navy. Whenever I go through a history like this, I have mixed emotions. However, by revisiting the past I understand more of what my youth was about.
Thank you for your service.
Welcome home.
@EmperorJuliusCaesar Yes, just in time for the Vietnamese to invade Cambodia three years later to overthrow the horrendous Communist Khmer Rouge regime they supported during the 1970 Cambodian Civil War.
Less celebrated is Vietnam's quiet retreat from its own deeply unpopular foreign war that ended 25 years ago this month. A war where Vietnamese troops, sent as saviours but soon seen as invaders, paid a steep price in lives and limbs during a gruelling decade-long guerilla conflict. -BBC
EmperorJuliusCaesar your father fought for the U.S. and you talk like this about your country.daddy must be proud of his little commie turd.
Thank you for your service!
Thank you for your service. And thank you for what you did to south Vietnamese people in 1975. Half of my family escaped on 4/29/75 and the other half escaped in 1983 as boat people.. great to be here in the US. Thank you again!!
I want a biographic on Simon's life
But he has to use the same level of seriousness as this video while doing it. And only refer to himself in the third person lol
Simon!!! Make it happen!
@@FH-wi6ek ....i think we'd want the bloopers to that too... Lmao
@@sagesheahan6732 and the bloopers have to be in the style of business blaze
@@joyfold1029 I bet you a wooden nickel he'd reach a point where he goes "aaaand I should have read this ahead of time, [repeats what he'd just said, but as a statement written by Danny]"
The West African soldiers who came back from Dien Bien Phu narrated the history of Vietnam's victory, giving to the movement of decolonization an immense impulse. Thank for restoring the memory of this fight for human freedom.
My uncle served there in the Foreign Legion. I've pasted my general post here as I think you may be interested. WOW... I love your channels BUT.. The first part where you set the scene is so USA centric omitting very important details to cover the USA's betrayal of a former ally. My version comes from my uncle who ran away from home at the age of 16 (No, his name isn't Beau) to join the Foreign Legion. He served in Algeria and deserted when the Vichi regime took control at the fall of Free France at the beginning of world war 2. He escaped to England where he fought as a pilot along side the RAF. After the war he returned to his duties with the Foreign Legion. Now an engineer, he was posted to serve in Indo-China. At this time the morale of the Legionnaires was rock bottom as most came from Eastern European countries that were currently being sold out by the USA, Britain and France to the Soviets. Ho Chi Minh and his forces were trained and equiped by the OSI (CIA) to fight the Japanese in Indo China with the promise of independence. This freed up US forces for other theatres. After the war all promises were broken as the French were allowed to return. Ho Chi Minh even traveled to Washington to talk to their 'friends' but Truman refused to even meet him. Returning home without any friends he was determined to end the colonisation of his homeland. The Soviets saw their opportunity and offered aid where none was to be had. Because of this the world labelled him a communist. Many Legionnaires considered them selves as freedom fighters and now saw them selves as oppressors fighting against freedom fighters on behalf of traitors who sold their home nations out. Their hearts were NOT in this fight. Years later my family (blacklisted by the communists) escaped Czechoslovakia and I eventually became an Australian soldier. At this time I managed to reconnect with my uncle. What he tried to get through to me was that just because someone is labelled a communist doesn't make them communists and to be aware that the terrorist you may be fighting is someone else's freedom fighter. VietMinh to VietCong - Thanks to USA. Mujahideen to Taliban - Thanks to USA . America will never learn from history if it keeps denying its existance.
@@wetcat833 In effect, the story is more complicated than most people think. In his video on Ho Chi Minh, Simon Whistler pointed out the numerous travels he undertook in the US and France, not only to educate himself, but to put forward the plight of his people. The numerous false promises of the US, France or UK have led to events whose consequences are still visible nowadays. For instance, De Gaulle promised to grant independence to Francophone African nations as a reward for their participation in WWII. Eventually, he did nothing. Thank you su much for sharing this with me.
De Gaulle was always an opportunist.
It would have been impossiblle without the will of the socialo-communist government who ruled France at that time, and was in fact partner of the ennemy; Dien bien Phu has been the grave of the viet army, and was conceived by the army as a trap to kill the most possible of vietminh troops (they loosed there 150 000 men ), and it worked; but the french army was betrayed by politicians at the order of Moskow, who took this " defeat " as a pretext to give up.
@@felix25ize 150 000 men ? bro, you are reaching hard
I love to see one on the Siege of jadotville
I'll second that
@NLTDB3S Theres a film on netflix about it. Its worth a look
As would I
@blackzed I've seen it twice. :P
The commander of the mercenary force is ‘Roger Faulques’. There is a very poignant/inspiring photo of him carrying the artificial hand of Captain Danjou, during the celebration of the battle of Camerone in 2010.
We had to talk about three liberators out of six liberators as options for an essay in tenth grade. Minh was listed as an option and we were allowed to do research at home before we wrote it in class the next day. I talked about this battle. After the essays were graded, my teacher said I was the only one that talked about it
How’s Your result?
Always worth remembering that Dien Bien Phu has 60" of rain a year and if you kill a mans (Giap's ) wife and let his baby daughter starve to death, you are going to make an Enemy from hell. The Frenchman that wrote "Hanoi Adieu" was taught by Giap and remembered him fondly as being a decent human being.
No mercy’s from Giap
Giap was a genius.
He fought for Vietnam from WWII with only 40 guys all the way to the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979. And he never lost a single war (battles sure, but never the war itself).
Y I until I uploaded uuuu7 I u I just u
9i your I
@@Kaiserboo1871 They lost against the British during Operation Masterdom.
I have travelled to Viet Nam and around other bordering countries. The one thing that struck me about the Vietnamese is their intelligence. Of all the Asian cultures to go to war against, these people would be the toughest. They are the most resourceful people and culture I have ever seen. If anyone wants a good fictional, (but accurate synopsis of Viet Nam) read the book 'Saigon.' Sorry, but it was so long ago since I read it that I can't remember the authors' name.
Anthony grey
"Who should rule Vietnam?"
French, British, Chinese, Soviets: Well, not the Vietnamese, obviously.
You left out the US, sir.
@@sundalongpatpat The Americans, as usual, were late to the party. But when they arrived they were already drunk and they brought a keg.
@@sundalongpatpat the US want the capitalist vietnam to rule though so no.
Did you even watch the video? The soviets and Chinese supported the Vietnamese. While the American supported the French.
@@billtheman7546 I feel you watched but failed to comprehend. You were a lot smarter when you were The Science Guy.
I have been there myself. My guide said that so many soldiers die during the operation that if you lay out all of their bodies, it would cover the entire surface area of the hills of Điện Biên Phủ. Today, decades later of the the fighting, human remains could still be found occasionally. Especially when in rains, as the rain carry the dirt away, skeletal remains sometimes emerge.
I first heard of Dien Bien Phu when I saw 'Apocalypse, Now Redux' during the scene at the French colonial plantation. I was intrigued enough to look it up, and found what an amazing battle and defeat of the French forces it was. So much of what Americans know of Vietnam is from our own actions there, but this battle in particular is significant in understanding the French engagement, ultimate defeat, and end of their Indochinese colonialism.
There were 300K Commie Chinese troops aiding the North Vietnamese Commies in battle of Dien Bien Phu. Few people know this.
France: You can't defeat me
Giap: I have the high ground
Kenobi!!
And ALL THWE TIME IN THE WORLD.
“I don’t want any damn Dien Bien Phu,”- Lyndon B. Johnson
proceeds to have Dien Bien Phu x 10
"Din Bin Foo" That's how he said it actually lol.
"We can give you a Khe Sanh. Does that sound better?"
He nearly got one at Khe San. But Johnson (and Nixon) did not understand that it wasn’t military defeat that was the problem. They’d won all the battles. They controlled almost all of SVN. The place they didn’t control was between the ears of the people.
But that didn’t matter. The NVA only had to win a conventional battle over a shitty ARVN to when we were no longer there.
Phils Phan
Yup, in fact, the much talked about Tet Offensive was the death knell for the Viet Cong. America lost Vietnam because of McNamara’s (he chose targets from the Oval Office) draconian ROE and as importantly, a home front that no longer supported the war.
I remember seeing some years ago a picture of French Foreign Legion paratroopers flying towards their drop point singing bravely to reinforce their trapped buddies at Dien Bien Phu.The caption stated they knew they would be going to their deaths,singing bravely together on their date with destiny. Whew ! Very moving picture.
I've seen the same and shed a tear too. If only they sent more colonial frenchmen, nothing better than an oppressor getting wiped out.
A Battle so pivotal that Billy Joel included it in his song "We Didn't Start The Fire".
That should be Good night Saigon
@@Wolfhound223 That song was more about the reality of what the men endured. "Start the Fire" was more a littany of historical events: no reason why Dien Bien Phu shouldn't be in it.
@@Wolfhound223 once you’ve been BJ’ed you’ll never be the same.
After the Vietnamese helped defeat the Japanese in WW II we turned them back over to the French, and then wondered why they objected.
_Hind sight is always 20/20_
At the time the US was willing to pay the price and use everything in their tool box to defeat the Russians and by extension the communist ideology
Which is why the US did questionable things but at the time they were deemed by the many world leaders to be justified:
1) recruiting former third Reich scientists and engineers such as Klaus Barbie
2) Failing to prosecute the Japanese for their war crimes like the infamous Unit 1071
3) Removing a democratically elected Iranian prime minister because of his communist leanings and nationalising of Iranian oil reserves
4) Allying themselves with the brutal Pakistani regime because Pakistan was a rival and it was seen to counter India as India had great relations with the Soviets
5) Giving Pakistan the US seal of approval to commit genocide in East Pakistan (Bangladesh)
6) Covering for the Mai Lai massacre by the US Army
7) Removing recognition of Taiwan as the legitimate China to take advantage of the Sino-soviet split
8) Provoking an aggressive reaction by US nuclear material placement in NATO ally Turkey
Of course all of this to us, the layman, is a significant failure of decision making but those involved in the world of politics would argue against that.
_Remember in the world of geopolitics there are no allies only nations and national interests_
I highly recommend you watch CGP Grey Rules for Rulers
The French turned that country from jungle and rice patties into something grand.
@@rejvaik00 You could also add the expansion of NATO after the fall of The Warsaw Pack and The Soviet Union.The United States is always talking about peace but when the opportunity to do it they don't.
Japanese were ordered to surrender
By emperor
The british rearmed them to fight the viet minh
1945.46
@@angloaust1575 also a lot of japanese officers, NCOs and generals refuse to surrender and join the viet minh
Mistakes made by the French:
1. Putting yourself into a defensive position from which you can't escape.
2. Assuming that your enemy is inferior by default and underestimating their logistics.
3. Placing too much faith in air power (resupplying, air strikes, evacuating wounded and flying in fresh soldiers).
4. Not covering the high ground.#
It's questionable if the French could've won the battle if they had avoided these mistakes. But even doing all this still wouldn't have negated the vast numerical superiority of the Vietnamese forces and their advantage in artillery.
The french are the only ones that would chose to be surrounded by the enemy...
Supplied by the Soviets
@Corristo89
Regardless of their other mistakes, if the French had the same airpower and airlift capabilities as the Americans did, they probably still win this battle.
@@command_unit7792 We did it at Khe Sahn. Out gunned by NVA like the military brass did about the same thing as if they never heard of Dien Bien Phu. Mission was supposed to be interdiction. Too busy for any of that but B52s bombing right close to the base probably saved it from the same fate. Closed that base right after Tet. Military brass called it victory for the body count . . . I'll call it a close call from my stateside cheap seat.
All the mistakes Anakin made.
Yall must agree Simon has the smoothest head EVER
Thanks to... Dollar shave club!!!
THAT WAS THE BEST PUN EVER
"Joe Rogan has entered the chat"
*Roe Jogan would like to know simons location*
Every time I watch one of his channels, it reminds me to wax my car.
A dearly departed friend of mine was an amateur historian and was obsessed with that battle, he would have certainly smashed that like button.
I think the biggest thing about this video is the last part - just how easily such a historic event can be brushed aside and almost totally forgotten except by historians and military enthusiasts. I can only imagine the horror, pain and probable anger Rolf R felt when he returned to find the memorial itself was forgotten.
Or it means that historical memory and influence isn't necessarily symmetric and universal - for the French, colonialism, and perhaps the cold war - it's a turning point. Maybe for the Vietnamese it stands out less among the battles they fought on their road to independence. Or preserving old battlefields may not be a priority.
@@davestevens6283 You're right in that a battle has far different connotations depending on which side is looking back at it and how it helped shape history. I should have been a bit more detailed since I was thinking more in terms of the human factor of those involved in the fighting rather than the socio-political side of remembering.
It reminded me of the armchair generals of WWI with how many lives were thrown away for a small advancement across the battlefield.
I’m amazed that they allowed the memorial.
The best time to preserve that battlefield is during the first 50 years after the war before much of it is destroyed by time. Unfortunately, after the battle of Dien Bien Phu, we also had to confront the US imperialists and their minions, then the pol pot of Cambodia and China on the northern border, until 1990 the gunfire stopped on the border. our territory. And the most important thing, we were embargoed by the US during that time, so we did not have the financial conditions to be able to preserve that relic. Hopefully current efforts will preserve what remains of the old battlefield. A people who have had to fight throughout history from the beginning to the present, I have great pity for our people.
Well... the French wants to forget it, understandable. But we Việt never forget those who oppressed us, it is in our blood.
"Dien Bien Phu falls,
Rock around the clock."
Was 18 when I served in Vietnam in 1967. At that time in my life it was such a beautiful country as one could imagaine I thought.
I love your Geographics series. Dien Bien Phu was a testament to the arrogance and corruption that belied European conquest/colonization efforts around the world, and the inability of not only the French and English, but also the United States, in failing to see that indigenous people wanted to rule themselves, whatever form of government they chose. The Viet Minh were underestimated by the French, a mistake that nobody seems to learn in any foreign war.
As a Vietnamese, hearing Giáp's name spelled as "seph" really is irksome. It's spelled more like "jab" but with softer "j"
I just had to study this battle in my class, Great Military Campaigns, a month ago. This was so helpful with gaining a better understanding of the conflict.
Sounds like a dope class!!!
Sir, sir, SIR!!!!..dropping 3 videos at once is always welcome...thank you, simon and team.
my grand mother shared a story about my father died during Indochina war. My father was the only one in his family who had continued education till he graduated high school. there are only 2 students was chosen by the French to go study aboard in Japan for the entire central region. he told my grand mother that the french did not want Vietnamese to be educated. Many Vietnamese just finished elementary school and their education ended. my father told my grand mother that he did not want to see his children and Vietnamese children had no education and he did not want to see the french killing Vietnamese so he decided not to go to Japan to study. He joined Vietminh and fight against France. He is one of those Vietnamese soldier pulling tanks, machine gun with legs and arms to Dien Bien Phu. He said "nothing lasts, the french have to go home." till these days, every time i am about to give up something that i do, I remember my father who moved tanks and heavy artillery up to Mountain to fight against the french...he reminded of his "mission impossible". He taught me a lesson about determination and willingness for not giving up. there is nothing that i can't do. My father also taught me when i was a kid "you want to be happy, you have to let the past go". If you are foreigners coming to Vietnam to visit, you see Vietnamese having no hatred against the American, French, Spaniard, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino...they still smile at you with open arm welcome. i am in 50's living in US. if any country wages war against Vietnam, i will return to my home land and fight till i die like my father did. Period.
The artilleries were pulled up the mountains surrounding the French by hand. The Viet Minh had dozens of men pulling the gun up and two soldiers at the bottom would use a wedge to lodge into the wheels so that the gun would not roll back down. They did so inches by inches until the gun reaches their position.
That's how I got a small tractor into the back of a small truck to take it for repairs. My brother had wedges, and I pushed it up the ramp using a wood beam and the science of leverage. People seem to always be surprised that 2-3 people can move a very heavy object up a hill or ramp, but it is doable even if it is slow.
Damn 😁😁😁😁
@@indoorsandout3022 yeah, but you and your brother are two healthy adults, this is impressive because the Viet Minh are not in their best condition, they are mostly starved, tired from marching, and had to carry all that stuffs up many hills full of rocks and pebbles
Another interesting thing: According to Frantz Fanon, a french intellectual whose main topic was decolonization, the battle of Dien Bien Phu had a big part in decolonization in the whole world, since a lot of colonizing countries chose to decolonize to avoid the risk of another Dien Bien Phu.
Of course a Frenchman says that. It's not even true either. Indonesia, India were far more important.
at 68 i'm a history nut and i love your documentaries ...many of my co-workers fought around that time in vietnam and i know a little about khe sanh and the tet offensive...my cousin was killed in the city of hue around valentines day '68...now, he's a name on a wall, ROBERT PIERCY, a proud Marine...anyways, i appreciate your vids...peace
Thanks for an excellent presentation on a key battle of post-WW2 Asian and anti-colonial history.
Back in the 60's this battle was not very well known. The first time I heard of it was while I was serving in South Vietnam with the United States Army in 1970. One of my fellow soldiers, a fellow from New York City, who had a bit of college under his belt, but not enough to be an officer had studied it in college and told me of the horrors of that battle. To be honest it sort of scared the shit out of me, since at the time we were in a pretty much secure area that felt very safe and almost like being on American soil except for the few small off colored people who spoke a funny language who worked on the base, cleaning our quarters, polishing our boots and burning our shit on a daily basis. Things did change over the year I was there, and I did become aware that the combat pay we received for serving in that little backward part of the world would indeed be earned after a fashion.
Wow, you invaded another country and then like "being on American soil except for the few small off colored people who spoke a funny language who worked on the base"
@@bichdaovo6476 To be honest with you, I found the Vietnamese people very nice. Most could speak English very well, and I respected that since I could only sputter a few cuss words in Vietnamese or French. Most of the folks I had contact with were very intelligent, even the gals who shined our boots and swept out our rooms, made our beds and such for a few bucks a week. Most all of them could speak several langages, the result of the many occupiers of the nation. Many could speak French, a langage I studied in High School and only remembered a few phrases, as well as their native tounge and English. Sure they could have well been VC at night but for me, they were, well not friends, good acquaintances. The gal who ran the Pizza ovens at the NCO Club was a very nice lady, and used to joke with us all the time. I can't say that I invaded another nation, well not personally, I joined the US Army after I found that jobs were not hanging off of trees in the US at that time, and the Army would pay me enough to support my growing family. I never asked to go to Vietnam, but was ordered by my nation to go, and being a good soldier, I went where I was told, and did what I was told for 14 months, then returned to "The World" and continued on with my life, after 8 years in the Army, I went on to become a Police Officer, a job that I served in for over 24 year when an accident left me permantly totally disabled. Now I live off of Workman's Comp and Social Security. I recently lost my wife of 51 years and 4 days, I miss her so much it nearly kills me every day, and as a secondary note, I miss her Social Security check that helped pay the bills nearly as much.
@@JerryEricsson So sorry to hear that sir, maybe i misunderstood something from your comment.
The people who you think that they speak funny language they could well be a Viet Cong and they kicked your ass ! What a small minded person you are ! Lol
Oh I did not realised two comments are of the same person. Ops .. I should put my glasses on . Lol
One more comment on a relatively little-known aspect of the Vietnam ‘experience’. During WW II, Ho Chi Minh’s Communist Vietminh guerrilla forces fought against the Japanese, who had ejected the French and occupied the country. His efforts became known to the American Office of Strategic Service, the OSS, who parachuted a team of French-speaking specialists into Vietnam to supply and train Ho’s forces. The team, code named DEER, found Ho dying of an unknown illness, probably a combination of malaria and other causes. The DEER mission’s American medic saved Ho’s life.
When the war ended peremptorily with the dropping of the atomic bombs in late 1945, Ho declared the establishment of the Independent Republic of Vietnam. His American OSS advisors were empathetic to Ho’s political objectives but were instructed to refrain from getting involved.
In the vacuum existing after the surrender of the Japanese, the Allied forces sent a British division from Burma to provide stability until the French could return. The British forces were commanded by a General Gracey. Ho attempted to meet with Gracey, but the British general would not see him, and did not recognize Ho’s political movement. Ho’s forces began to fight with Gracey’s British troops in sporadic engagements. Gracey’s jungle-hardened soldiers killed several thousand of Ho’s men by the time the French returned in late 1945. As a side note, while his forces were engaged fighting Ho’s guerrillas, Gracey released surrendered Japanese troops from their imprisonment, armed them, and used them to provide security in the British rear areas while his forces were off fighting the Communist guerrillas.
This 1945 British experience in Vietnam is one reason the British said ‘no thanks’ to Lyndon Johnson when he tried his classic arm-twisting to get Britain involved in the American war in Vietnam. While Australia and New Zealand did commit forces, the British stayed out.
Domino theory positing that communism might succeed in Australia or New Zealand is pretty wild. Have you ever met any Australians?
Unfortuantely communism is actually becoming increasingly popular here in nz 😐
@@LogieT2K ah man, rip your factories.
Americans would already view our healthcare as communism
@@LogieT2K liberals aren't communists any more than conservatives are fascists. Constant demonization of well meaning political opponents is more of a danger to democracy than communism ever was.
@@finiteenergy7155 please clarify when talking about Americans. I'm sure you're aware that we have a lot of progressive liberals who have tried to get socialized medicine but it's continually demonized by the right as communism. Ordinary people have been brainwashed since the cold war so all one needs to say that you're a communist and it knee jerk reaction.
Dien Bien Phu; end of French's long bloody affair with static defense.
No they scewed up again in ALGERIA in the 1960's . They lost that one too,,,,
@@Frank-mm2yp the French were winning militarily but lost politically in Algeria. The same happened to the US in Vietnam
You would think that the uselessness of the Maginot Line would have sunk in.
@@hmoobmeeka Not the same thing as the US and Vietnam. The U.S government knew it was going into a losing battle and used 'undesirable' people as cannon fodder.
You think they would have learned their lesson after the likes of Weygand, and Gamelin, got steamrolled during Fall Gelb. I mean no army could pass through the Ardennes, well except the Germans, twice.
The best books on this pivotal battle are “Hell in a Very Small Place” by Bernard Fall and “The Battle of Dienbienphu” by Jules Roy.
Fall also wrote “Street Without Joy”, a second book about the French experience in their war in Indochina. The book takes its title from the name given to Vietnam’s Highway One, the main north-south road of Colonial French Vietnam, by the French Union forces that fought endless battles and ambushes along its. length.
This Most notable of these was the ambush and massacre by Vietminh Communist forces of a fortified regimental truck convoy of soldiers and artillery known as Mobile Group 100 (Group Mobile 100) at the Mang Yang Pass in Vietnam’s Central Highlands in June 1954.
Fall was considered one of the foremost historian of the French Indochina War. Ironically, he was killed by a land mine while accompanying US Marines in 1967, on an operation during the American Indochina War, along the very same Highway One, the “Street Without Joy”, he had chronicled in his book.
When I was much younger I got to jump with the French Foreign Legion. Some of the older guys were veterans of the battle of Dien Bien Phu. I will never forget a segment from Hell in a very small place, where the night before the surrender, about 100 or so of the paratroopers who were still physically intact were given permission to attempt a breakout. 100 against 100 thousand, they fixed bayonets and went into the night.
Oddly enough, most of them got through.
This leads me to speculate that General Giáp knew all abythe impending breakout, and gave orders to just get out of the way and let them through, knowing that these paras would most likely just go home, and this is what the Vietnamese wanted anyway. Besides, why capture these large, healthy Europeans with their large appetites, when he would be responsible for feeding them.
Giáp lived to the ripe old age of 105. This leads me to believe that basic human decency contributes to a person’s longevity.
Fred. You were fortunate to do some jumps with the French. Was that at their parachute school at Pau? I remember Fall’s account of the breakout attack by the legionnaires, as he wrote, “under the ghostly light of the parachute flares”, which I got to know only too well, in my two deployments to Vietnam in ‘68 during “Tet” and again in ‘69. I have always resented the term “tour” used to describe the one-year assignment to Vietnam in our war, as though our travels had been arranged by the firm of Thomas Cook & Sons…
about the Mang Yang Pass battle from vietnamese's side: that battle from PAVN was an unexpected result of "operation Atlante" - the 96th regiment "Big Brother of 5th interzone" to evading the attack from french in the Operation Atlante, move up from the southern central to Central Highland. And while setting up new base in the central highland, scouting party inform the commander of the 96th that there's a french position without any trench or fortification, only canvas tent. And being too frustrated from running, he ordered a night attack, by 40th battalion with extensive support from artillery of the 96th regiment. And the rest is history.
The 96th commander does only know the identity of the ambushed troop - the GM100 after the battle ended and the transmission from the GM100 commander was intercepted by the 96th, and because of the Dien Bien Phu result, the French are so afraid of falling into another meat grinder, and assuming the moblie of the force was leaked, pullout all the troops in the An Khe area.
im from vietnam and im so proud of my country, thank you for making this video, cảm ơn rất nhiều
btw this is where Isayama got the idea of naming walls after females for Attack on Titan. he said in an interview
Can you explain it ? Thank you
9:45 - 12:48 someone had a subwoofer going.
I had honestly thought it was some kid outside.
Yeah what they hell was that? Lol
And I thought my sub was going crazy :D
@@theAessaya I thought it was being used for dramatic effect to simulate artillery shelling of the French positions.
That was the Vietnamese syops people have you learned nothing
"Dien Bein Phu, I see you."
- Lincoln Osiris
That looming bass at 11 minutes onward is fitting as hell for the tension lol
I thought my neighbors upstairs were vacuuming.
"I dont want no god damn Dein Bien Phu" ~Lyndon B Johnson
DITTO- "We dont want American boys to have to do the fighting that South Vietnamese boys should do".
That did not work either. Although the USA did avoid "our Dien Ben Phu" @KHE SANH the final result was the same.
To paraphrse the old Bruce Springsteen song: "CHARLIES" STILL THERE- WE ARE ALL GONE"
*ramps up troop involvement*
Lbj under pressure not just mcgeorge bundy and mcnamara but also from below.
history class post-school feels so refreshing. i love it
See Bernard Fall’s classic “Hell in a very small place” for details.
True, I iniatially read it before going ' in country ' in '69.
I'm german and my grandpa joined the french foreign legion when he was a young man in the early 50's, looking for the adventure of his life, and he signed a contract for five years. We still have his service journal, which states that he fought in Indochina and after that as a paratrooper in Algeria. I don't even want to imagine what these young men had to witness.. It's no wonder that he never talked about the war.
Ich würde sagen, dass er hätte interessante und schreckliche Geschichten, die ich gern hören würde, aber ich weiß nicht, ob ich mich an sie erinnern möchte.
Entschulidigung für mein schlechtes Deutsch. Ich bin Student und kann nicht eine Gelegenheit zum Üben ignorieren. Doch bin ich ehrlich: es scheint mir interessant.
My Grandfather was also in the Legion in Indochina and his best friend and legionnaire brother was German also. My grandfather barely ever talks about his time in the legion and even less about Indochina Dien Bien Phu all I know is that his German friend died from a blast and that my Grandfather was seriously injured by shrapnel and bares the scars of this to this day both physically and mentally.
@@XavierLignieres More Majorum
So your grandpa was a ss? Like most germans joining the foreign legion after the war
@@joycegroeneveld4329 You realize the SS and the Wehrmacht were two seperate entities right?
To think this all started with a history teacher.
When interviewed, Diem still spoke French in the Eighties.
Wasn’t it started by the French colonialists?
When you enslave a group of people, your greatest enemy can & often dose stem from someone you never deemed significant.
It started with the end of the last ice age
A bad history teacher, yes.
I would love an episode about the WW 1 Hindenburg line!
That would be great for Megaprojects, hear hear!
I've always admired Giap. Given his success in three different wars over the course of 34 years, I have to believe that he was most likely the greatest general since Napoleon and by far the greatest general of the twentieth century.
He certainly made the most out of what he had to work with.
Yeah. He practically propaganda civilians into meatshield for his victory. If you admire him, you admire the equivalent of Hitler
@@pingukutepro everyone is hitler! How very uneducated and biased
MoreBagsThanLipton I'm a Vietnamese I'm sure I know Giap and his battle more than you.
Do you think Vietnamese racist? Yes we are, we are racist to the point that 91% of our population is only one race. That fact & number speak for me
@@pingukutepro , Bub Huynh, sao ba.n ba xàm vây ?! are you a VietNamese educated ?
"Dien Bien Phu falls, Rock Around The Clock"
-Billy Joel
This is why I clicked, lol.
This is a battle I've never heard of. It does sound as if it was one of the bloodiest battles of that time. Thank you for adding new historical events.
Along with being infamously bloody, it was important enough to be included in Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire"
Imagine you entrench yourself in your final strongholds, hoping that the terrain would be a deterrence to enemy advance and heavy weaponry and the security of said strongholds would be enough to fend them off, but in the end you realize all you did was digging yourself a grave and didn't even know it.
The French were effectively cut off from all reinforcement, and most of the supply drops were intercepted. Gets even worse that they didn't even know the Vietnamese forces were literally pulling heavy artillery and anti-air up the hills/mountains surrounding the region, a feat that shouldn't be possible due to how risky it was and due to lack of trucks to make the trip, yet they didn't care. There was one Vietnamese hero who sacrificed himself when an artillery slipped and went rolling down hill, he died jamming himself under the artillery to stop it. All that risk paid off in the end as they shelled those strongholds to hell.
@@thecommentguy9380 1
@@thecommentguy9380 The Vietnamese here's name was Tô Vĩnh Diện, and the artillery piece that he saved was a 37 mm anti-aircraft gun. The gun survived the war and is displayed in a museum in Vietnam today.
The french troops put up one hell of a fight. In the final stages of the battle, without the ability to evacuate the wounded and defeat imminent, some french machine guns were manned by multiple amputees. A one armed legionnaire firing the gun and another two one handed amputees doing the work of one able body man, reloading the machine gun.
My late father in law was an “advisor” prior to the Vietnam War. I do not think the army has ever even admitted he was there. My ex husband knows more of what happened there, but I know that in his final days when he was old, sick and dying, he didn’t sleep much. My MIL said he was having nightmares about it again. He would often have waking dreams it seemed and he would be back in a warehouse trying to get someone out. This was a horrible experience for those involved that haunted them their whole lives.
Was there in 2014. The locals never forgot.
Why should they? Dioxin exposure is killing their people even now.
I remember when I watched Apocalypse Now and the part where the French plantation owner talked about how badly they lost in Dien Bien Phu. It sounded like hell
Time magazine, issue of November 22, 1954, published on the cover of President Ho Chi Minh's portrait and spent five pages talking about his background and career along with Vietnam's victory over France in the Dien Bien Phu campaign. This magazine emphasized: "With the victory (Dien Bien Phu), Mr. Ho Chi Minh's prestige reached new heights in Asia. Nationalists in many countries, although they were anti-communist, also cannot help but be proud of the feat of an Asian country's army defeating those who were their "boss" from Europe to... Under the leadership of Ho Chi Minh, Viet Minh forces had the most effective jungle fighting army in Southeast Asia, had the most talented general in Southeast Asia, Vo Nguyen Giap, had the most solid political organization led by Ho Chi Minh, and had the best qualifications. adept leadership"...
An even higher ground? *Obi-wan loves this*
Damn, suicide by grenade. That's pretty hardcore.
When you really really really want to commit suicide.
New idea for a channel, Battlegraphics.
My girlfriend's grandfather fought there as a French paratrooper. I gather he had a bad time.
My respect to him
They had to drop at quite a low height due to ever shrinking perimeter
Also many volunteers with no parachute training went in
Great video as usual Simon and friends.
I just read an excellent book about the Battle of Dien Bien Phu called The Last Valley. Then I read a book about The siege at Khe Sanh. There are similarities but there are many more differences. For one thing Dien Bien Phu is in a valley. Khe Sanh is on a plateau. Also the Marines controlled the high ground. And of course we have B-52s. Something the French wish they had.
Which book about the siege of Khe Sanh? There are several.
Tha Last Valley is considered one of the definitive books on Dien Bien Phu.
Comedy break :
I can hold the line whilst going without food. I can even hold the line by going cold-turkey off of cigarettes. But G-DAMN I CAN'T hold the line without my COFFEE !
Lol viele danke.
You speak truth.
Coffee kept me going fighting in Afghanistan...
Simon- "I'm a pretty busy guy myself" understatement of the year
"The fox has many tricks; the hedgehog has one good one."
-Archilocus
I never knew about this particular military battle, I knew something about the Vietnam war, but this video really changed my perception regarding the Vietnam war! Thank you so much, Simon and your team!
This should be one of the most iconic battle in 20s, one of the French worst defeated.. It ended the colonization era. But seem like they want to keep in low😅
Under 96 years of French colonization, the Vietnamese had 3 waves of starvation to millions of people. (Sorry, my English not good.)
To add a bit more context as to why the French chose Dien Bien Phu and employed a hedgehog defense there, the French had previously scored a major victory at Na San using just such a strategy. At Na San, Viet Minh forces launched human wave assaults against the hedgehog defenses and incurred staggering loses to French artillery and airpower. The Na San defeat forced Giap to rethink his approach to conventional battle and he understood that he needed to counter overwhelming French superiority in artillery and air. The French on the other hand came away feeling vindicated and believed that if they could repeat the victory of Na San several more times, they could break the Viet Minh.
Thus the French set out at Dien Bien Phu to replicate the success at Na San, hence the reason for picking a seemingly isolated and vulnerable location in order to entice Giap to commit large numbers of troops to defeat.
Was listening to “We didn’t start the fire” and heard him say dien bien phu so here I am
Like the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae, The French Legionaries "were not defeated, they were only killed". That is a quote from a movie about Dien Bien Phu.
But they were defeated. They waved the white flag as a sign of submission. Their general was taken prisoner and along with their 10,000 troops
@@blitztt94 no white flag at Dien Bien Phu, search for a real source of history
It's amazing how often armies that perceived superior against less well equipped armies have been defeated through history. It just occurred to me as the next video in my playlist is Gettysburg. Of course there's many more battles with the expected victory going to those with superior weapons etc, but it's impressive when the underdog wins.
Ukraine?
THANK YOU FOR POSTING THESE SO OFTEN!!!!
Gotta say that Hans sense of humor is phenomenal. This man had both his legs blown off and tells the nurse hes gonna take her dancing!
There are no winners in war just levels of losing
Weapons manufacturers always win.
I disagree , but you have a point.
Jennie and Redned both true. The sooner the whole world instils direct democracy where the people all vote on pretty much everything, then we will see an end to war. Its when we have leaders and an elite class of some form who own the means of producing not just the weapons, but hold the contracts to supply the military(and get all the rebuilding contracts afterwards), that we have those people in our society(that also own and control the media) manipulating us into a war, that's only in their favour. War is never in the favour of the everyday man in the street, so they would never have any interest in attacking another nation. To most civilians, war just means the potential of having your home and property and loved ones blown to pieces.
Its going to take some time and doing, but we already have the technology to make it work on some level right now. Just look how millions vote on Xfactor or Americas got talent and all those other dumb tv shows. Millions vote in seconds, what is stopping us having a system in place where the citizens have a secure account and vote on at least the bigger issues concerning our countries, our societies and our lives? The control freaks otherwise known as the elite class, of course. Expect them to fight tooth and nail against this. But it is the future of the human race. Quite simply we rid ourselves of the control freaks in our societies and we will then build a much brighter, lucrative for all future, where war is just something we read about in the history books.
johnba291972 never gonna fuckin happen. You cant vote away the will of others.
Nope Vietnam won
great work!! when i first began to read history seriously (1981) the first book i read was: Hell In A Very Small Place: The Siege Of Dien Bien Phu by Bernard Fall
It is said that Giap took a lot of inspiration for his military strategies from studying famous historic battles and legendary military leaders.
Amazing video, Geographics Team! 👏
Great video as usual, a little short but with 25 min it's hard to get into more details.
If you guys are interested into Dien Bien Phu and French Foreign Legion in Indochina i highly recommand the following documentaries on youtube (french dub, english sub available):
Vietnam : le siège de Dien Bien Phu (Roman Karmen - 1955)
Cao Bang, les soldats sacrifiés d'Indochine
Thank you for those RUclips titles.
Will definitely watch them.
Thank you
Ahhh............... as my Buddy told me there are three Wars that are Unregulated Human Carnage The Civil War, World War 1 , and the Vietnam War.
Just pure carnage of Death and Loss of life that is Staggering.
Ah the list is alot longer than that unfortunately mate.
WW1 had regulations which everyone signed, then they just proceeded to wipe their asses with the them and continued to slaughter each other.
@@13lochie not like those Three.
War is always bloody but those Three in particular are Pure Carnage. In most Conflicts You can point out a Reason or a boiling point . But in the case of those Three you have men in Trenches Wondering why all that suffering was for.
Like the brake down of Human Respect made them Become Killing fields .
You can still find ghosts and Remnants of those Conflicts in each area.
Think about the Death the fall of Saigon Caused? Or Sherman's match to the Atlantic, or The battle of Verdun.
All three have one thing in common it wasn't about gaining ground it was about A kill count .
@@blackpilloverdose1013 I was gonna reply to your original comment with a swift "Dude..." but since you do have a point here, I'll have to NOT do that. I really like doing that so be proud of yourself;)
@@YeeSoest thanks Brotha as a kid I was Off reading about human History while everyone wanted to play ball.
All three wars to me are extremely interesting. Out of the three Vietnam is chock full of conspiracies and cover ups
Some interest facts overlooked at Dien Bien Phu, that General Christian de Castries named Beatrice, Gabrielle, Ann-Marie and Isabelle susposedly after his mistresses (Busy Man)!! General Võ Nguyên Giáp used Sun Tzu (was a huge fan and implemented) "The Art of War" philosphies to defeat and then later to beat the Americans in the Vietnam War and gain Indepence for Vietnam. Been to Vietnam in 2018 and have a total different from the typical Western View point that the Viet Cong were the bad guys!! I recommend visiting for yourself and visit HCM City and the War Museum to understand the brutuality of the West in Vietnam.
,
I visited a bar in Saigon during the Mid-1960's. In my conversation with the bar owner, I noticed that she spoke English with a distinct German accent. When I asked her where she learned her English. She told me that her husband had taught her. He was a German in the Foreign Legion who had died at Dien Bien Phu.
As a son of a US Vietnam veteran I would appreciate any efforts on your part to cover every detail of the Vietnam War it is a good thing to never forget lest we repeat such errors in human thought my father fought in 1967-1968 with the ninth infantry. Their division symbol was a red, white; and Blue flower the troops nicknamed the insignia “psychedelic bubble gum” come to think of it that would be a good way to layout your Vietnam war videos by explaining each US divisions engagements and maybe cover both sides of the war.
Fellow son of a Vietnam vet. Great idea. Of course I don't think my father's unit, 68th AHC of the 145th Aviation Battalion, MACV, would rate inclusion. My dad extended twice; as he told me, he got "addicted to the risk." But 2500 combat hours in the air, 25 Air Medals and a V device which would have been a DFC except for company politics¹, are nothing to sneeze at.
¹and, somehow, a Combat Infantryman's Badge
@@stephenwright8824 yes my father brought home his air medal its an eagle with lightning bolts grasped within it's talons flying downward at maybe a 45° angle brought home a purple heart with an oak leaf cluster for being injured and continuing fighting twice first time grenade shrapnel injury second time mortar shrapnel. Those medals are noted on his headstone in Asheville, N.C. veterans cemetery he succumbed to side effects of agent orange exposure on December 12'th 2006 ischemic heart disease took him
@@beaubeaukitty5301 On the effects of dioxin: me and my brother were born with diseases that were not previously suffered by anyone in my family. Type 1 diabetes for him, hydrocephalus for me. Gratefully he's still alive. Irony: for years he had a heart murmur due to having had rheumatic fever as a kid and still passed his Army entrance physical.
I know where Epstein Is what an a*s*s you prove yourself to be
Should do a biographic on Nguyen Giap, the greatest military general to ever live
Interesting fact. The Battle of Khe Sanh in 1968 was an attempt at repeating Dien Bien Phu, but for the Americans this time. Like DBP, Khe Sanh was an isolated American base deep in the jungle, hosting a large number of US marines that could only be resupplied by air. The thought of being able to inflict a defeat on the scale of DBP on the Americans at Khe Sanh would be monumental for the NVA and Giap.
However, it would not be the case. US airpower in 1968 was world's away from French airpower in 1954. Unlike at DBP, the US airbridge with Khe Sanh could not be broken despite Giap's best efforts. Employing a tactic called the 'Super Gaggle', the Americans would suppress every known and suspected NVA anti-aircraft and artillery position with air and land based artillery for a few minutes, during which a flight of US helicopters would fly in, unload supplies, and take off. The tactic required pin point timing and careful navigation through the hills and valleys for the resupply craft but the Americans succeeded and Khe Sanh could not be starved out.
Additionally, the US marines maintained control of a series of important hills around Khe Sanh. At DBP, the French had lost control of important vantage points in the valley which enabled the Viet Minh to bring down accurate fire down on the base. At Khe Sanh, US marines clung doggedly to them no matter how many bodies Giap threw at them.
Finally, Giap's attempts at using trench works to undermine and cut off parts of the Khe Sanh base were repeatedly erased by flights of B-52 bombers who carpet bombed the NVA trenches, destroying them and burying the sappers.
Giap eventually realized he would not be able to replicate the decisive victory at DBP. American airpower and the tenacity of the US marines were insurmountable and rather than order a pointless general assault, Giap withdrew. NVA propaganda would later claim that they never intended to take the base, but it was part of long strategy to draw US forces away from South Vietnamese city centers in preparation for the Tet offensive. Ironically, not long after the battle, the US dismantled the base after it lost it's strategic value.
God have mercy poor farmer in middle of two fronts
Make a biographic video about general Giap, he’s one of the greatest generals in 20th century and maybe all time
@CrusaderPRT You sound like Churchill talking about the Irish War of Independence.
Giap lived by Ho Chi Minh's determined phrase, "If we have to fight for ten thousand days¹ to win our freedom, then we will." His dedication to the idea of a free Vietnam made him a great general, sources of foreign support and losses in battle notwithstanding.
¹according to Michael McLean, the exact length in time of the American intervention in Vietnam
@CrusaderPRT Maybe so, but he did manage to run both the French and the Americans out of Vietnam.
@CrusaderPRT it's much more honorable to bomb single platoons with dozens of bombers at a time, every time, like the Americans did in Vietnam. That's what I call fighting.
I laughed WAY to hard at the guy who lost his dancing legs
Well at least I hope he didn't lost his pee pee.
Unfortunately the Americans evidently never heard of this battle as they proceeded to underestimate the Viet Minh for the next 21 years until finally also defeated and driven out in disgrace in the eyes of the world.
As usual, great content, informative and enjoyable 👌🏽
And good end piece to it to, reminder of why this channel (and the others in the 'SW family') are a go-to favorite.
8:48 you can see Japanese soldiers serving under the British after the Japanese surrender in WW2.
In a way, yeah, I can, from a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" standpoint... but it's still a pretty mind-bending stretch...!
No, here you see japanese soldiers saluting the arrival of french commandos in Indochina after Japan's surrender in 1945, you thought they were british because the specific unit shown here was trained in part by the SOE during WW2 and as such wore some british gear and berets. This picture is not well suited to talk about the 1954 battle of Dien Bien Phu...
Giap was the leader of Vietnamese army in this battle but the Vietnamese side tactics were forged by a Chinese advisor group headed by veteran general Wei Guoqing. The French intelligence also failed to account the scope of Chinese military support for the VietMinh. The former sent a lot of Chinese nationalist and Japanese howitzers and Soviet AA guns to the latter before the battle. The French chose Dien Bien Phu because it had a small Japanese airfield there and because of its position near Laos. The French were also confident in Dien Bien Phu because they won a similar but smaller battle at Na San under general Salan leadership. Unfortunately for them, the VietMinh this time had better prepared with new shiny howitzers and AA guns sent from China and this became a nightmare and a disaster for France. Moreover, Dien Bien Phu, in the eye of Navarre, was only secondary objective compared to his more ambitious Atlante operation in the midland of Vietnam. For him, it could be an acceptable loss in term of military but it became a politic disaster for France like we all know.
Totally right. this story teller forgot to tell the strong chinese involvement. it also failed to speak about the fact the French prime Ministre was already negociating a french total withdraw from Indochina in Geneva, BEFORE the battle. There was here a true gap between the french Generals which were fighting to keep the Indochinese colony in the french empire, when Mendes-France had alreday decided to abandon it. THIS will explain the actions of french Generals and Colonels against the french civil gov during the next war of decolonisation in Algeria (especially when the french generals will have learnt from their mistakes in the Indocinese war of independence).
In Dien Bien Phu, without Chinese officers, without heavy chinese artillery and without the numerous chinese AA guns, no viet victory, at best, it's a draw as french plan had some failures (the withdraw by air transportation combined with a retreat through the viet lines was a pure dream)... Even with a crushing superiority in alkl sectors (numbers of troops, artillery, heavy guns, and AA guns, higher position to counter battery the professional french artillery), Giap suffered severe casualties (far far more than the french), and his army was no more able to mount a new offensive for months, and french still had 150 to 250k troops in Indochina (many suppletives to add too)... terrific battle, heavy casualties for nothing as independence was already won as french gov had decided to give up (and it was strongly logic due to the more and more chinese involvement) )
With or without Chinese involvement the viet will not back down to the French any more .they are prepared to fight with the French no mater how long it will take . the Vietnamese army had become of age .the Vietnamese people now are United army not segregated in a small rebellion group like first 20 years under French occupation .it took the French 20 yrs to stamped out the small rebellion Vietnamese.
@@toothpick5932 small rebellion ? in 1944-45, french troops were not even 10k... and Japanese executed most of them before leaving. even at the peak of the rebellion, the most french troops were about 100k with 250k suppletive (in which 1/3 were "double agents", 1/3 were truly willing to help the french, and the last third was waiting to see who would take the advantage between the vietcong and the french)... 90% of the french army was in France and in Germany, the red army was the true threat, also americans had unauthorised french to use big weapons they give them, USA forced France to send 99% of the received weapons in Europe to face USSR... In 1945, there was no chance that west germany had an army, the occupation was still too much in mind for French. UK had a little land army, that means that the strongest land army on the continent was France and it was just recoveing, slightly, day after day.
France could have sent more navy, troops and air force in Indochina BUT they didn't because it was a too higher price. Also french people was mostly opposed to this war, it was far, it was unjust, it had no good reasons etc...
Never the less, the Chinese involvement was decisive and I agree, Viet didn't want to give up... But Honestly, the "red gov" of Vietnam once reunited after the american withdrawal (I speak now after the second war there, without the French), you can't call it a "democratic" state. If you were liberal and not communist, you were executed in Vietnam, the viet red power was killing democrates and not only the colaborators of the French nor the americans. In Vietnam, you were able to be sent in camp like russian gulags (even harsher than them) or even killed for no reason excepted you were "suspect"... it was even harsher than french terror under revolution era (1793-1794)...
And it affected neighbours of Vietnam, I hope you don't considere Pol pot as a great democrate nor a good boy...
French colonistaion wasn't heaven for sure, but Sovietic type of the vietnamese gov was far more hell than French... It would make Tito or Stalin some sweet boys in comparison.
I am talking about 1930 or before , the rebellions were small and not organised and segregated. They was fighting with the French like they always had done with Chinese many hundred years ago .Not in 40 or 50 when Ho chi Ming managed to United the people and he was well organised as well as he had realised that in order to beat the French the people need modern equipment not stick or stone .so he asked for help from USA or Chinese or Russian . In a sense that the French had brought VN to 20 century by force. The army 50k fighters at Dien bien phu and please don’t count the peasants who help to build the road to the mountain or carried guns and foods for the soldiers. If you count them all as they are soldiers. At that time even my parents and grand parents helping the VietMinh because Vietnamese hate them . They donated food and hid the
JP C . French negotiations for total withdraw from Indochina ? If that was the case why DBP 15000 men ? And why asking the USA to drop atom bombs on us ? They were hoping to win that battle so that they would be in a better position at the negotiating table at Geneva . may be they wanted to remain for another 80 yrs ! God only know the truths. Ho Chi Minh desperately wanted to avoid the war
He was in Paris for the talk with the French before the fighting break out. His world was” it was all a masquerade “ from the French and “there will be war and there was no way out” “it will be between a tiger and elephant .....” if the French were truely wanted to get out of Indochina they would have plenty of opportunity to do so. It was a blamed excuse like the same excuse for them to invade VN in the first place.
I’ve heard rumors that the artillery commander named all the fire bases after his mistresses. I
I think i saw this excact valley back on Top Gear Vietnam Special episode
Jezza said: "If Italy is God's racetrack..this.. is His Garden."