It's like Bill Burr said regarding Lance Armstrong, "Our roided up guy beat your roided up guy!" Pretty much anyone notable was using steroids during that time yet only Bonds pulled out those absurd stats.
@@davidmedina8774 100% Baseball Hall of Fame is worthless without Bonds. They burning Bonds for something he did after a HoF career. This 15 year wait period is the best compromise I've heard.
I love Bill but he’s a huge hypocrite when it comes to Boston guys. Manny was a much better hitter and player than Ortiz. If anything, Manny should be in over Ortiz.
@@adamthomas8205 He's always been like this, which is hilarious because listen/read to his stuff and you know the biased homer take is coming and it always comes.
I was in high school during the steroid era, and let me just say... Baseball was so much fucking fun. It was probably the most important sport in America, and it was incredible
Baseball is grossly hypocritical. Turning a blind eye and taking advantage of those players to usher in the most popular period of the last 1/2 century, but then turning around and acting pious when it comes time to celebrate them.
In my lifetime I can not think of another athlete that the media love to hate more than Barry Bonds. I was born in 82 and have lived in Bradenton FL most of my life. I say that to let you know that the Pittsburgh Pirates have had spring training here ever since I can remember. I've personally met Mr. BONDS a number of times growing up when he was with the Pirates and he was never this person the media portrays as a selfish asshole. They mostly hate him because he would call reporters on their Bullshit. The way they all admired what Bonds was doing at the time and then just completely forget to mention him now a days is absolutely garbage. Bonds being treated this way is why I no longer care to watch the sport. It's not the only reason but it's the main one. I know I'm just 1 person and in the grand scheme of things it means nothing. Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player to ever live in my opinion. You can not tell the story of baseball without Bonds being mentioned That's the whole point of the Hall of Fame. It tells the story of baseball. Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter that I've ever seen in my lifetime. Juice or No Juice to be able to hit the ball the way he could, when he only would see about 1 pitch every 2 games to hit and he put that pitch in the stands was something we will never see again.
He's still a cheater. No matter how great of a guy YOU try and make him out to be. Without steroids he was the best player for a few years. He didn't need to do it. He got what he deserves!
Mark McGwire is undoubtedly going to begin any ceremony by saying he isn’t here to talk about the past knowing full well a museum is literally about the past. Lol.
Come on fellas! We’re gonna pretend poppi didn’t weigh 110 lbs when he played for Minnesota?😂 but the media flooded us with before and after pictures of bonds head?
Have you seen video of him in the minor leagues? He was a monster. ARod tells a story of how he lost a mini home run derby him and Griffey to Ortiz when they made an appearance at a minor league game so no he wasn’t skinny lol
@Stephen Vinci when he was skinny he went 40/40 3 times nobody has ever done it once and he won 10 gold gloves. He’s only been accused of juicing the one year 73 HR year. After that he had a year where he got .375 walked over 200 times and struck out only 19 times. Probably the single greatest season anyone has ever had in any sport if you know just what those numbers mean. Absolutely unreal
So, if Ortiz used anything before 2004, its fine for him, but not for anyone else. Even though steroids were banned by MLB in 1991 (steroids were declared illegal by the US in 1990). But they assume Bonds used in 03, 04, and 05 even though testing began in 2003? The "weird New York Times thing" was an article which had names of "big" players who tested positive for steroids when testing began in 2003. Those investigating BALCO seized the MLB testing results from the company that did the testing, which were never destroyed/deleted. Those "big names" who tested positive were Ortiz, Manny, ARod, and Sosa. Since investigators were looking specifically for those players who tested positive for PEDs/steroids (to possibly tie them to BALCO), its widely accepted thats what those players tested positive for. Sheffield admitted to using "cream" way back when the investigation into BALCO began, which he used on his legs to lessen the appearance of scars from surgery. The Mitchell Report is discredited because players were named by Radomski, charged with drug dealing and other crimes, who's plea deal was tied to cooperation with the investigation, so the more players he named the better it was for him. (he ended up not even going to jail if I remember right) Also the report didn't mention any Red Sox, even though Ortiz and Manny were known users by then.
@@jg7830 I've enjoyed Bill's content for what seems like decades now, and it's hilarious how one thing that has never changed about Bill's content is that anything involving a Boston player turns Bill into such a hypocrite homer lmfao
He was my favorite player but Babe Ruth was easily the best ever considering he was a pitcher the 1st seven years of his Career. Remove 7 years from your favorite hitter and then compare them to Babe Ruth...Bonds was a monster
@@YoItsDev then he was the best milkman ever...no they were not throwing 80...go read and educate yourself a little. Any1 can reach the bigs now...like 40 teams 🤣 more teams= more opportunities...Babe Ruth invented the homerun in a deadball era...one man hitting more homeruns than full teams combined...with no helmets either...hitters like bonds looked like they geared up to go play in the NFL...
Why would they say taking steroids is the biggest mistake they ever made? They became millionaires many times over because of it . Didn't have to give the money back, no jail, etc. Mlb is all in on it too.
Bonds has a rare brady argument as well. He had essentially 2 separate hall of fame careers. One where he was like the evil Ken Griffen junior doppelganger that could do whatever he wanted on a field (incredible fielder, base runner, hit for power/average)and a another where he was the most feared offensive player in a team sport ever and a sabermetrics event horizon. The point is there is a line of delineation around 2000 and bonds is one of the greatest ever at that point. Unfortunately for barry the writers wanted a reason to keep young barry old and old barry gave them a reason. I feel like Clemmons, an American hero, is collateral damage since he's the randy moss to bond's TO.
My suggestion: Add a wing to the HOF, honoring the great players of "The Enhanced Era," along with detailed explanations of the turmoil that this era caused. To ignore it, and them, does the sport a great injustice.
Why do people try to equate character flaws like being a racist or an alcoholic to actually cheating the game? These aren't apples to apples comparisons
Bonds is one of, if not THE, only must watch players in baseball history. No 2 players combined have ever been as exciting as Bonds was by himself. Bonds is bigger than the Hall of Fame
Rickey Henderson & Barry Bonds are the greatest players of all time. Bonds is the only player in MLB history 500/500 club & the only one to win multiple MVPSs & Gold Gloves with two different teams.
I've enjoyed Bill Simmons' content for many years, and him always doubling down, putting on blinders, and being a total homer about anything related to Boston never fails to make me laugh.
The curse of modern baseball and the MLB as a whole is the fact that they refuse to acknowledge the scandals of the PED usage among players rather than accept that it was a part of their history and move on from it. Even as regular sports fans, we can't change the history of the sport or the franchises that play said sport. We can wish it all we want but what has happened has happened. The best course from there is to just move forward and to be better going into the future, rather than have the past hang over us and have it define everything that we aren't. Barry Bonds, even with all his merits and demerits on and off the field, is a HoFer. It should have never been a debate from the start. Yes the PED's made him a far better hitter than what he normally would have been but you can't deny the impact that it had on the sport. People can argue that by putting Bonds in the HoF is basically rewarding him for PED usage but guess what, that's a narrow minded view of one aspect in a decorated baseball career. I can guarantee that anyone as a kid growing up and watching Barry Bonds at bat, you were waiting to see if he would just rip another home run and cheering like crazy when he did or being disappointed when he didn't. I don't and will never condone PED usage in any sport but you have to put into context of what was going on during the times that Bonds was playing because he wasn't the only one abusing PEDs (Does Jason Giambi ring a bell for people?) Put Bonds in the HoF but as Bill likes to do with NBA championships, put an asterisk on Bonds. Just my 2 cents.
The pace of baseball feels way slower than it used to, and frankly it’s gotten boring compared to the juiced era, I say let them perfect themselves as athletes and do everything in there power to recover and get better. The only sport that shouldn’t juice imo is combat sports
@@doktarr A. Not a requirement B. I don’t know what you think baseball, boxing, or even just all natural baseball does to the body, but it isn’t good, especially the 2 former options C. That is a huge misconception. Performance enhancers when being controlled by a doctor aren’t any more harmful than Tylenol, and in fact many of these things can aid in much faster, much more effective recovery, especially post injury, and can make the quality of life for the athlete much better. D. Idk what you think athletes put in there bodies, but The amount of pain killers and steroid injections they use to aid in pain relief from their grueling day to day grinds could be reduced a lot with the use of performance enhancers and other drugs on the banned substances list.
All yall PED heads can think bonds deserves in but don't say theirs no point in a hof without bonds because there's stilla. Point, if there wasn't then there hasn't been a point since Pete rose didn't get in and Pete didn't cheat he bet on his own team to win ,, BONDS was PROVEN to be a cheater, is he still a good athlete yes, would hr have made the hof without them yes probably but he used them and now he isn't, but he's viewed as greater now by the gen pub. So it was worth it if fame.was the goal but steroids isn't good man not healthy at all Bad for the human body in my opinion
@@hoppy23 you do know understand that steroids are legitimate and legal medication created and used medically, right? It's not meth cooked in a tub (actually since it became illegal steroids are mostly counterfeit and more risky than when they were legal). Decades of brainwashing has caused people to forget their actual legal use and then we get your last paragraph. Steroid abuse just like any pharmaceutical can cause long term problems. 20-25,000 die each year from aspirin abuse (which is more than die from illegal recreational drugs btw).
@@vlada steroids are not healthy, especially tren, and other effective steroids, professional athletes who take them to earn millions is understandable but I laugh my ass off when I see the bill bad ass at the gym who is pumping steroids taking years off his life and wasting thousands of dollars lowering natural T. Just to show up to olive garden and wait tables, anyone who starts steroids, obviously there are good steroids but we obviously are talking about the more serious dangerous roids... think what you want but it's not healthy and it's not worth it unless your using it to further a career in sports or be a body builder
@@webslinger48 You are right, and I laugh at people who think Bonds was HoF in Pitt. His numbers also went up some when he first went to SF, so I think the juicing started back then.
@TimCarter Bonds was a 2-time NL MVP, 3-time Gold Glover, 3-time Silver Slugger before he joined San Francisco. Bonds also led Major League baseball in most offensive categories his last season in Pittsburgh. At 27 yrs old, Bonds was already on his way to a First Ballot Hall of Fame career.
The greatest baseball player I ever saw play and he played for a team I despise (I’m a Dbacks fan being from Arizona) Barry has been done dirty after all he did for this game
This was excellent and MLB should consider your proposals...Bonds was gifted with the talent genes of his Dad, Bobby, and if Barry had retired the year before the home run mania hit baseball, he would have been a first ballot HOF selection...I always go back to the "greenies" amphetamines Jim Bouton shares in his great book, Ball Four. (Former JUCO All-American and 2nd round pick..."bust"} LOL!
PED use should be assessed as a negative, not a disqualifier. Like Bad defense or if they slept with their teammate's wives. Treat them as if they were 10-20% worse. Bonds, A-Rod still make it, Sosa doesn't. The Mitchell report should not be used as evidence. It is fundamentally unfair, an abuse of the players' good faith attempts to help the league fix the problem, and completely unscientific and without rigor or standards. It is far worse than rumors. Holding the Mitchell report against anyone is a travesty. It is like locking someone up without trial based on evidence obtained illegally and analyzed in a filthy broken lab. In the last audio segment (not on YT) Bill and his dad repeatedly mention Belichick wanting to break Halas' record. Shula holds the wins records not Halas. (Regular season wins and total wins.) BB is 38 behind Shula in regular season wins and 26 in total wins. Belichick is only 3 behind Halas for total wins and is 28 behind him for regular season wins (2nd place).
Ok, so for all of the people who say “just put it on their plaque” or “put them in another section” like the players is gonna be ok with it lmao. “Yea, I’m in?!!, what’s that? They wanna call me a cheater? Yea that’s fine, I’m in!!!” Lmao. Their bats and balls and historical moments, the things that you say they are known for, are all in the hall already. The HOF is an honor, do we want to honor cheaters? That’s the real question. If you do fine, if you don’t fine, but let’s stop this baseball story bs. And all those other racists in and all that, white people voting on white people, no surprise
The HOF is for the best players to be honored for their on-field achievements. I don't know why it matters that someone was well-liked or donated lots of money to an orphanage. It's supposed to be about the stats. Barry Bonds' stats were awesome and HOF-worthy even before the 'roid years. So he should be in for that reason.
No he shouldn't nor McGwire or any juicers. Juicing up at the time, 10 more feet is the difference between a homerun and an out at times. I asked Jim Rice some 25 years ago and he told me, I was a big guy, pretty strong but I could have hit the gym and weights everyday and not got as strong as these guys are getting help in other ways. I thought that was a solid answer.
The stupidest thing that the hall is doing is filling up the hall with guys who don’t belong just to spite the greats they don’t like! You can’t tell me none of the players in the late 90’s early 2000’s weren’t all on PED’s, if you didn’t do them knowing everyone else is doing them and you are going to lose money by not doing them then you would have been a moron not to take the stuff to make as much money as you could. What pisses me off even more is that Bud Selig is in the hall of fame and he knew everything was going on under his watch! 🤦♂️
@@tamhiker1 I wasn’t even a fan of Bonds or Clemens during their playing days but you cannot deny their greatness, we’re talking about one of the best hitters and pitchers baseball has ever seen before the steroid era, I don’t blame the players at all for the faults of the league.
The issue I have with this whole steroids issue the MLB has with its past is that ppl try to act like steroids wasn’t GOOD for baseball when that was probably the best era of baseball there ever was like just let him slide man this shit is just sad to see
@@Amick44 How do you know? There's a very good chance that he did. If he bet on his team to win on Monday, but not on Tuesday, that could be a sign to bookies he owes money to, that he's gonna allow the Reds to lose in order to pay off his gambling debts. Rose would have the burden of proving himself innocent here, and that's just not possible.
Definitely. There’s zero question that many steroid users are already in, and given that his competition at the time was just as roided up, he was the best of the era. He’ll always have that stain on his legacy, but he deserves to be in the HOF, although it’s not happening.
I'm a red Sox but A-Rod is a great baseball analyst lol. Jeter giving half of Hollywood herpes is worse than Barry Bonds n A-Rod doing steroids. Also they should put Pete Rose In the HOF
The HOF should tell the truth, good and bad, about players and eras. When a great player takes PEDs, his stats will be even more amazing, but when a marginal player takes them so that he can recover faster and pitch effectively for two innings every few days, we hardly notice. It's not news. Either mark each guy's HOF display with an asterisk, or install a room with specific information about each era, the whole sordid truth told fairly and accurately. Part of the problem with Bonds is that writers didn't like him, and he didn't treat them with much respect.
If you were objective on Ortiz, you would steel man the counter argument, not just lay out your best narrative in his defense. This is intellectual dishonesty and confirmation bias at it's finest.
@UCEIu9s2oe4eT_XW5r8Ck-ng what’s a lie? They said he failed a confidential test in which the commish said no one should hold that against him. It’s just facts. I’m sorry you want it to be something else
I'm really intrigued to see what happens in the next 50 years when the record books start being taken over by people who's first language isn't English because I wonder how the American media will treat them... I'm not just talking about guys from DR or PR or Cuba but also from Japan, Korea, etc.
That’s like the NBA keeping Michael Jordan out of the Hall of Fame because he may or may not have gambled on the sport. And may or may not have been secretly suspended by David Stern for a year and a half for doing so. There’s no undeniable proof even if it’s obvious to a blind man (in Bonds Case). Bonds and Clemens were obviously two of the greatest ever at their respective positions in baseball. Then again, maybe this is the price they had to pay for cheating in a sport that they were already among the best at with or without steroids.
oh no he shouldn't. the argument that they weren't being tested for when he started using them doesn't change the fact he used a PED to play the game. what did hank use? strong cup of coffee? probably not even that.
Bonds got what he deserves, plus Sammy, McGuire, and several pitchers too. We want to forget him and all the other cheats who betrayed the fans, using enhancing steroids to make records they NEVER would have reached otherwise. Just compare stats vs age and productivity to prove it. That's why the cheaters deserve a National Steroid Hall of Fame! And for those who might ask I Love The Yankees madly. I attended for instance opening Day where Reggie hit his fourth home run in 4 pitches, counting the 77 world series. I was one of the idiots who threw Reggie Bars on the field to celebrate seeing a true HOF'r do his thing.
What falls deaf in so many of these conversations about this topic is Bonds and Clemens cheated playing the game.... We can dissect their off the field morality all day long and yeah, many hof guys were bad people, but bonds and Clemens aren't in the hall because they cheated while on the field. Their gargantuan stats aren't real. They're manufactured from cheating. They shamed the game of baseball. Soooo we let them in the baseball hall of fame? That's insane. I keep seeing these articles/podcasts etc that the hall of fame is broken... Yet if I walked my sons through the hall of fame and had to explain the plack next to Jackie Robinson is from a guy who cheated playing baseball it would really diminish what the hall stands for.
I care about Cap Anson, the Babe, Ty Cobb and the pitcher who ran off the mound to chase a fire truck out on the street. Baseball has been going downhill since 1939. Put Shoeless Joe in!
Yeah he should be in. If you take like about 200 juiced up HRS away from him.Then he'd be behind like 15 players in career HRS.. Not Cool? Then add like 200 HRS to guys who didn't use steroids for the last 7 or 8 years of their careers. Imagine how many HRS guys like Willie, Hank, and Babe would have hit if they wanted to cheat, and steroids were invented back then? They'd be in the freakin' 900s in lifetime Homers. Fair is fair. There should be two Halls..One for regular players. And one for juiced up players. frankny65yroldwhitekid rockfan.....and baseball fan
I don't understand the argument that Bonds should be in but Pete Rose shouldn't. Pete Rose not being in, in my opinion is the biggest crime in baseball. Especially now when everyone and their mother gambles.
I'd start testing whoever left these heros my heros that are my childhood memories out my generation of baseball gets left out because of idiots that write about stuff who says the others did use or didn't who really knows Noone!!! I can see if they were selling it as street drugs and living in drug houses come on people get real😂😂😂 I guess let's leave out history all together professional wrestling yea they never take it noo😂😂😂
@Bill Simmons - So all of the pitchers doctoring the ball, and the Astros trash can doesn't get in the hall? Cheating is cheating (according to the purists) but the application of the rule and subsequent consequences is not consistent. "You can't tell the story of baseball without mentioning " is the basis for the HOF. Our personal lives have morals and ethics. (or lack thereof) Baseball is no different. Racism, cheating, betting, are all a part of baseball's heritage/story. "You can't tell the story of baseball without mentioning "
This is the problem if the writers like you they will ignore everything and put you in like pudge Rodriguez writers love him but it is obvious he juiced but guys writers hate they will hold the line and never let them in because they don’t like them.
Juicing is way worse than betting on games...lol...if they won't even consider letting Pete Rose in, why are we even trying to justify letting juicers in?
It is my opinion if a player can not do what is great on the field without enhancements then they should not go in the HOF. I believe this as it would taint what people would view as great. As far as the players that are in with bias personalities, personalities are not what make a great player. In some cases it helps, but it doesn't change what they did on the field. Whereas enhancements the same can not be said. Would Barry Bonds hit all those HRs without them? I seriously doubt it. I think if he had not done them and simply hit 400 HRs and had 200 plus SBs he would have went in. Somewhere in his mind he felt he needed them to be viewed as a great hitter, which is not true. He was great hitter prior to, but because he did them I would not let him in either.
I grew up watching and loving baseball with my Dad. I no longer watch or support the sport. Why? Because of their hypocritical quadruple standards...Baseball is a sport who's very foundation is built on cheating...cheating and getting away with it was part of the game! Stealing signs, Doctoring the baseball, Pine tar! Plus baseball is totally okay if they are the ones doing the cheating for the good of the game that is. Baseball was in full support of steroids...they knew what was going on but they didn't care because the people were loving it...only when the truth came out and they were getting the backlash they did a 180! juicing the baseball for home runs...Okay! No problem...The freaking Minnesota Twins now hold the record for most home runs in a season! Not the '27 Yankees but the Twins! That record will stand. Why? Because MLB helped it to happen....for the good of the game! Why don't we hear about the Greenie's era...Uppers being taken like candy! What about those players and those records...oh those are fine because no made a fuss about those drugs helping players perform! As far as I know the Houston Astros still have the title from a year where they stole signs and wore buzzers to win games! So I don't hear about how bad Bonds and Clemons and those players are when hundreds more did steroids but their names are hidden! I will not support a sport where cheating is okay as long as it's the cheating we like but if it's cheating we didn't approve your banned for life...I know I'm just one guy but that's $200 in tickets, $20 parking, $10 beer and $8 hot dog you won't be putting in the till.....
It's like Bill Burr said regarding Lance Armstrong, "Our roided up guy beat your roided up guy!" Pretty much anyone notable was using steroids during that time yet only Bonds pulled out those absurd stats.
Bonds is the best example. HOF before the roids.
@@davidmedina8774 100% Baseball Hall of Fame is worthless without Bonds. They burning Bonds for something he did after a HoF career. This 15 year wait period is the best compromise I've heard.
@@davidmedina8774 then put him in with his stats before using steroids, other stats are * at the best.
Bonds is 4th in HRs per at bat.
1. McGwire
2. Ruth
3. Judge
4. Bonds
@@BST-lm4polet me know when mcgwire getd 120 intentional walks in a season or when judge is bases loaded intentionally walked in the 9th inning lol
If known juicer David Ortiz can get in, Barry Bonds should 100% be in
Simmons "before '04 everything was legal", sooooooo, let McGuire in, he retired in 2001!
I love Bill but he’s a huge hypocrite when it comes to Boston guys. Manny was a much better hitter and player than Ortiz. If anything, Manny should be in over Ortiz.
@@adamthomas8205 He's always been like this, which is hilarious because listen/read to his stuff and you know the biased homer take is coming and it always comes.
@@tillbrooknot federally
How great were they before the juice ...
I was in high school during the steroid era, and let me just say... Baseball was so much fucking fun. It was probably the most important sport in America, and it was incredible
Baseball may not even exist anymore without the guys juicing up. It is dying rn as we speak
Replay , Robot Umpires .... no hit & run or Stealing at all really .... Baseball is Trash now just like the NBA !!
Acting like they are on steroids now? Come on. Baseball does not care about cheating. Look at the Astros.
Baseball is grossly hypocritical. Turning a blind eye and taking advantage of those players to usher in the most popular period of the last 1/2 century, but then turning around and acting pious when it comes time to celebrate them.
Except it's voted by sportswriters not the MLB.
Blame the Players Union for fighting against testing all those years.
In my lifetime I can not think of another athlete that the media love to hate more than Barry Bonds. I was born in 82 and have lived in Bradenton FL most of my life. I say that to let you know that the Pittsburgh Pirates have had spring training here ever since I can remember. I've personally met Mr. BONDS a number of times growing up when he was with the Pirates and he was never this person the media portrays as a selfish asshole. They mostly hate him because he would call reporters on their Bullshit. The way they all admired what Bonds was doing at the time and then just completely forget to mention him now a days is absolutely garbage. Bonds being treated this way is why I no longer care to watch the sport. It's not the only reason but it's the main one. I know I'm just 1 person and in the grand scheme of things it means nothing. Barry Bonds is the greatest baseball player to ever live in my opinion. You can not tell the story of baseball without Bonds being mentioned That's the whole point of the Hall of Fame. It tells the story of baseball. Barry Bonds is the greatest hitter that I've ever seen in my lifetime. Juice or No Juice to be able to hit the ball the way he could, when he only would see about 1 pitch every 2 games to hit and he put that pitch in the stands was something we will never see again.
i have a bunch of family in Bradenton, do you know a Chris Coogan? He's your age from Bradenton
He's still a cheater. No matter how great of a guy YOU try and make him out to be. Without steroids he was the best player for a few years. He didn't need to do it. He got what he deserves!
Bonds juiced...Pete Rose DID NOT. Your talk about hitters is nonsensical. And you're 40 years old!
He did it to himself.
I agree. I mean Bonds was an ass to the media first but he def deserves to be a HOFer
Mose Schrute is very knowledgeable of baseball
😂😂😂
So Manny was juicing, but his Dominican brothers on the team, Pedro and Ortiz, were not? GTHOH
Mark McGwire is undoubtedly going to begin any ceremony by saying he isn’t here to talk about the past knowing full well a museum is literally about the past. Lol.
GOOD ONE!
Mark might not actually know that.
Come on fellas! We’re gonna pretend poppi didn’t weigh 110 lbs when he played for Minnesota?😂 but the media flooded us with before and after pictures of bonds head?
Also, check Ortiz's stats, which clearly indicate when he took PEDs, when he took time off, and when he restarted using it again.
The two things that hurts Bonds was his personality and that he broke records.
@@MrOctober44 absolutely
Have you seen video of him in the minor leagues? He was a monster. ARod tells a story of how he lost a mini home run derby him and Griffey to Ortiz when they made an appearance at a minor league game so no he wasn’t skinny lol
@Stephen Vinci when he was skinny he went 40/40 3 times nobody has ever done it once and he won 10 gold gloves. He’s only been accused of juicing the one year 73 HR year. After that he had a year where he got .375 walked over 200 times and struck out only 19 times. Probably the single greatest season anyone has ever had in any sport if you know just what those numbers mean. Absolutely unreal
So, if Ortiz used anything before 2004, its fine for him, but not for anyone else. Even though steroids were banned by MLB in 1991 (steroids were declared illegal by the US in 1990). But they assume Bonds used in 03, 04, and 05 even though testing began in 2003? The "weird New York Times thing" was an article which had names of "big" players who tested positive for steroids when testing began in 2003. Those investigating BALCO seized the MLB testing results from the company that did the testing, which were never destroyed/deleted. Those "big names" who tested positive were Ortiz, Manny, ARod, and Sosa. Since investigators were looking specifically for those players who tested positive for PEDs/steroids (to possibly tie them to BALCO), its widely accepted thats what those players tested positive for.
Sheffield admitted to using "cream" way back when the investigation into BALCO began, which he used on his legs to lessen the appearance of scars from surgery.
The Mitchell Report is discredited because players were named by Radomski, charged with drug dealing and other crimes, who's plea deal was tied to cooperation with the investigation, so the more players he named the better it was for him. (he ended up not even going to jail if I remember right) Also the report didn't mention any Red Sox, even though Ortiz and Manny were known users by then.
Exactly. I literally had to stop listening after their Ortiz take. Ortiz was nice to media, Barry not so much. That’s the difference between the two
@@jg7830 I've enjoyed Bill's content for what seems like decades now, and it's hilarious how one thing that has never changed about Bill's content is that anything involving a Boston player turns Bill into such a hypocrite homer lmfao
Bonds might be the greatest baseball player who ever lived lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
not might be. he definitely is lol
He was my favorite player but Babe Ruth was easily the best ever considering he was a pitcher the 1st seven years of his Career. Remove 7 years from your favorite hitter and then compare them to Babe Ruth...Bonds was a monster
@@grimhunter2223 Babe was playing against milkmen. Dudes were throwing 80mph fast balls 🤣. Weak era
@@YoItsDev then he was the best milkman ever...no they were not throwing 80...go read and educate yourself a little. Any1 can reach the bigs now...like 40 teams 🤣 more teams= more opportunities...Babe Ruth invented the homerun in a deadball era...one man hitting more homeruns than full teams combined...with no helmets either...hitters like bonds looked like they geared up to go play in the NFL...
"We aren't being homers on Ortiz". Sorry Bill, you aren't allowed to judge yourself. And yes, you are being a HOMER.
He should I’ve said that with Russello lmao Russello never let’s him bs anything
Bill is one of the biggest homers in the game
Why would they say taking steroids is the biggest mistake they ever made? They became millionaires many times over because of it . Didn't have to give the money back, no jail, etc.
Mlb is all in on it too.
Bonds has a rare brady argument as well. He had essentially 2 separate hall of fame careers. One where he was like the evil Ken Griffen junior doppelganger that could do whatever he wanted on a field (incredible fielder, base runner, hit for power/average)and a another where he was the most feared offensive player in a team sport ever and a sabermetrics event horizon. The point is there is a line of delineation around 2000 and bonds is one of the greatest ever at that point. Unfortunately for barry the writers wanted a reason to keep young barry old and old barry gave them a reason. I feel like Clemmons, an American hero, is collateral damage since he's the randy moss to bond's TO.
Binds and Brady went to same high school here in San Mateo, CA! GOATS
My suggestion: Add a wing to the HOF, honoring the great players of "The Enhanced Era," along with detailed explanations of the turmoil that this era caused. To ignore it, and them, does the sport a great injustice.
pardon my take had a funny idea where you build a new hall of fame wing shaped as an asteriks and that's for the PED era hahaha
@@ChristopherJenkins-rg8kf perfect!
'Turmoil that this era caused'??? I think you meant to say 'the era that saved the entire sport after the disastrous strike'.
@@staceyhamilton3982 That certainly would be part of it.
Why do people try to equate character flaws like being a racist or an alcoholic to actually cheating the game? These aren't apples to apples comparisons
Only greatest ever allowed in the hall of Fame. Other than the guy with the most hits and the guy with the most home runs. SMH
Bonds is one of, if not THE, only must watch players in baseball history. No 2 players combined have ever been as exciting as Bonds was by himself. Bonds is bigger than the Hall of Fame
Rickey Henderson & Barry Bonds are the greatest players of all time. Bonds is the only player in MLB history 500/500 club & the only one to win multiple MVPSs & Gold Gloves with two different teams.
Blonde never won a championship!!! Can’t be the greatest!!
@@lisapate306 Championships are won by teams, not by players. So winning a championship has no relevance in an argument regarding being a GOAT.
I've enjoyed Bill Simmons' content for many years, and him always doubling down, putting on blinders, and being a total homer about anything related to Boston never fails to make me laugh.
100% No way Ortiz didn’t do it but never proven but look at his career trajectory.
The curse of modern baseball and the MLB as a whole is the fact that they refuse to acknowledge the scandals of the PED usage among players rather than accept that it was a part of their history and move on from it. Even as regular sports fans, we can't change the history of the sport or the franchises that play said sport. We can wish it all we want but what has happened has happened. The best course from there is to just move forward and to be better going into the future, rather than have the past hang over us and have it define everything that we aren't.
Barry Bonds, even with all his merits and demerits on and off the field, is a HoFer. It should have never been a debate from the start. Yes the PED's made him a far better hitter than what he normally would have been but you can't deny the impact that it had on the sport. People can argue that by putting Bonds in the HoF is basically rewarding him for PED usage but guess what, that's a narrow minded view of one aspect in a decorated baseball career. I can guarantee that anyone as a kid growing up and watching Barry Bonds at bat, you were waiting to see if he would just rip another home run and cheering like crazy when he did or being disappointed when he didn't. I don't and will never condone PED usage in any sport but you have to put into context of what was going on during the times that Bonds was playing because he wasn't the only one abusing PEDs (Does Jason Giambi ring a bell for people?)
Put Bonds in the HoF but as Bill likes to do with NBA championships, put an asterisk on Bonds. Just my 2 cents.
If Ken Griffey Jr Wasn't Injured Too Much He'd Be The Home Run King
Sports writers just continue to prove they shouldn't be in charge of the legacy of baseball.
The pace of baseball feels way slower than it used to, and frankly it’s gotten boring compared to the juiced era, I say let them perfect themselves as athletes and do everything in there power to recover and get better. The only sport that shouldn’t juice imo is combat sports
We shouldn't require people to hurt their long term health in order to compete at the highest level.
@@doktarr A. Not a requirement
B. I don’t know what you think baseball, boxing, or even just all natural baseball does to the body, but it isn’t good, especially the 2 former options
C. That is a huge misconception. Performance enhancers when being controlled by a doctor aren’t any more harmful than Tylenol, and in fact many of these things can aid in much faster, much more effective recovery, especially post injury, and can make the quality of life for the athlete much better.
D. Idk what you think athletes put in there bodies, but The amount of pain killers and steroid injections they use to aid in pain relief from their grueling day to day grinds could be reduced a lot with the use of performance enhancers and other drugs on the banned substances list.
Obviously Bonds should be in, there is no point to have a Hall of Fame without Barry Bonds. Not that it matters much, baseball is dying out anyway.
But Pete rose isn't in
All yall PED heads can think bonds deserves in but don't say theirs no point in a hof without bonds because there's stilla. Point, if there wasn't then there hasn't been a point since Pete rose didn't get in and Pete didn't cheat he bet on his own team to win ,, BONDS was PROVEN to be a cheater, is he still a good athlete yes, would hr have made the hof without them yes probably but he used them and now he isn't, but he's viewed as greater now by the gen pub. So it was worth it if fame.was the goal but steroids isn't good man not healthy at all Bad for the human body in my opinion
@@hoppy23 you do know understand that steroids are legitimate and legal medication created and used medically, right? It's not meth cooked in a tub (actually since it became illegal steroids are mostly counterfeit and more risky than when they were legal). Decades of brainwashing has caused people to forget their actual legal use and then we get your last paragraph.
Steroid abuse just like any pharmaceutical can cause long term problems. 20-25,000 die each year from aspirin abuse (which is more than die from illegal recreational drugs btw).
@@vlada steroids are not healthy, especially tren, and other effective steroids, professional athletes who take them to earn millions is understandable but I laugh my ass off when I see the bill bad ass at the gym who is pumping steroids taking years off his life and wasting thousands of dollars lowering natural T. Just to show up to olive garden and wait tables, anyone who starts steroids, obviously there are good steroids but we obviously are talking about the more serious dangerous roids... think what you want but it's not healthy and it's not worth it unless your using it to further a career in sports
or be a body builder
@@vlada yes I understand that btw byr I'm quite obviously not talking about steroids being using for medical purposes
If Pudge got in .... everyone from that ERA should be in with HOF numbers...all of them.
Bonds was 1st ballot before San Francisco
Pittsburgh career: 176 homers .275 average does not get it done, I don't care 2 MVPs. That is much worse than Fred McGriff.
@@webslinger48 You are right, and I laugh at people who think Bonds was HoF in Pitt. His numbers also went up some when he first went to SF, so I think the juicing started back then.
@TimCarter Bonds was a 2-time NL MVP, 3-time Gold Glover, 3-time Silver Slugger before he joined San Francisco. Bonds also led Major League baseball in most offensive categories his last season in Pittsburgh. At 27 yrs old, Bonds was already on his way to a First Ballot Hall of Fame career.
The greatest baseball player I ever saw play and he played for a team I despise (I’m a Dbacks fan being from Arizona)
Barry has been done dirty after all he did for this game
100%
Like Bonds didn't benefit from roids himself by getting an absurd salary
Speaking of DBacks Shilling should be in as well.
@@marcvslicinivscrassvs7536 agreed another one they robbed out of spite
He cheated for years and made a mockery of the Home Run record. Yeah, he stained the game for good, is what he did.
This was excellent and MLB should consider your proposals...Bonds was gifted with the talent genes of his Dad, Bobby, and if Barry had retired the year before the home run mania hit baseball, he would have been a first ballot HOF selection...I always go back to the "greenies" amphetamines Jim Bouton shares in his great book, Ball Four. (Former JUCO All-American and 2nd round pick..."bust"} LOL!
pre steroids Bonds was a fantastic player. If he and others during the steroid era gets in, Pete Rose should be allowed in also.
Don't forget my favorite pitcher, Roger Clemens. I've never seen a pitcher who is his equal. Same with Mr. Bonds, of course.
PED use should be assessed as a negative, not a disqualifier. Like Bad defense or if they slept with their teammate's wives. Treat them as if they were 10-20% worse. Bonds, A-Rod still make it, Sosa doesn't. The Mitchell report should not be used as evidence. It is fundamentally unfair, an abuse of the players' good faith attempts to help the league fix the problem, and completely unscientific and without rigor or standards. It is far worse than rumors. Holding the Mitchell report against anyone is a travesty. It is like locking someone up without trial based on evidence obtained illegally and analyzed in a filthy broken lab.
In the last audio segment (not on YT) Bill and his dad repeatedly mention Belichick wanting to break Halas' record. Shula holds the wins records not Halas. (Regular season wins and total wins.) BB is 38 behind Shula in regular season wins and 26 in total wins. Belichick is only 3 behind Halas for total wins and is 28 behind him for regular season wins (2nd place).
Everyone’s like your right cap Hanson 😂
The hof isn’t just a museum tho fellaz its an honor
Ok, so for all of the people who say “just put it on their plaque” or “put them in another section” like the players is gonna be ok with it lmao. “Yea, I’m in?!!, what’s that? They wanna call me a cheater? Yea that’s fine, I’m in!!!” Lmao. Their bats and balls and historical moments, the things that you say they are known for, are all in the hall already. The HOF is an honor, do we want to honor cheaters? That’s the real question. If you do fine, if you don’t fine, but let’s stop this baseball story bs. And all those other racists in and all that, white people voting on white people, no surprise
The HOF is for the best players to be honored for their on-field achievements. I don't know why it matters that someone was well-liked or donated lots of money to an orphanage. It's supposed to be about the stats. Barry Bonds' stats were awesome and HOF-worthy even before the 'roid years. So he should be in for that reason.
No he shouldn't nor McGwire or any juicers. Juicing up at the time, 10 more feet is the difference between a homerun and an out at times. I asked Jim Rice some 25 years ago and he told me, I was a big guy, pretty strong but I could have hit the gym and weights everyday and not got as strong as these guys are getting help in other ways. I thought that was a solid answer.
The double standard of this America way is ridiculous
The stupidest thing that the hall is doing is filling up the hall with guys who don’t belong just to spite the greats they don’t like! You can’t tell me none of the players in the late 90’s early 2000’s weren’t all on PED’s, if you didn’t do them knowing everyone else is doing them and you are going to lose money by not doing them then you would have been a moron not to take the stuff to make as much money as you could. What pisses me off even more is that Bud Selig is in the hall of fame and he knew everything was going on under his watch! 🤦♂️
@@tamhiker1 I wasn’t even a fan of Bonds or Clemens during their playing days but you cannot deny their greatness, we’re talking about one of the best hitters and pitchers baseball has ever seen before the steroid era, I don’t blame the players at all for the faults of the league.
Curt Schilling should definitely be in
Of course, and he's being kept out because of socialism. Whoops. I meant to say politics. He's being kept out because of politics.
The issue I have with this whole steroids issue the MLB has with its past is that ppl try to act like steroids wasn’t GOOD for baseball when that was probably the best era of baseball there ever was like just let him slide man this shit is just sad to see
If that was the greatest era in baseball...why did I stop following it for almost ten years?
Because it became like a video game.
@@jamescurran9002 Literally no one gives a fuck what you think
So, Rose belongs then as well.
Do any Houston Astros players make it in?
Whoa there...I thought Ty Cobb was exonerated already 🧐
The Adolf Hitler/Time Magazine comparison is spot on.
On the argument that it wasn’t in the rules, then how come no one will admit it? How come no one was open about it during their playing days?
A few years before his death Ken Caminiti admitted that at least half the players were on some form of PED’s. Because There Were No Rules!
If only Shoeless got the same treatment
“Now we sound like apologists.”
No kidding.
They could have a cheaters room where Bonds and Rose and Shoeless Joe can go. It'd be amazing.
Rose didn't cheat.
@@Amick44 Betting on baseball is not cheating, but it's THE cardinal sin of the game. He did bet against his own team, which is cheating.
@@patrickellsworth5427 I have never heard that he bet against his own team
@@Amick44 How do you know? There's a very good chance that he did. If he bet on his team to win on Monday, but not on Tuesday, that could be a sign to bookies he owes money to, that he's gonna allow the Reds to lose in order to pay off his gambling debts. Rose would have the burden of proving himself innocent here, and that's just not possible.
Definitely. There’s zero question that many steroid users are already in, and given that his competition at the time was just as roided up, he was the best of the era. He’ll always have that stain on his legacy, but he deserves to be in the HOF, although it’s not happening.
Interesting take here. I haven’t heard this one. Bonds was already punished so he should not be punished again by the HOF
I'm a red Sox but A-Rod is a great baseball analyst lol. Jeter giving half of Hollywood herpes is worse than Barry Bonds n A-Rod doing steroids. Also they should put Pete Rose In the HOF
Bonds should be in.
Ruth played in segregated baseball
The HOF should tell the truth, good and bad, about players and eras. When a great player takes PEDs, his stats will be even more amazing, but when a marginal player takes them so that he can recover faster and pitch effectively for two innings every few days, we hardly notice. It's not news. Either mark each guy's HOF display with an asterisk, or install a room with specific information about each era, the whole sordid truth told fairly and accurately. Part of the problem with Bonds is that writers didn't like him, and he didn't treat them with much respect.
"There were no rules. It wasn't against the rules." IT WAS AGAINST THE LAW!!!
If you were objective on Ortiz, you would steel man the counter argument, not just lay out your best narrative in his defense. This is intellectual dishonesty and confirmation bias at it's finest.
It's Bill Simmons. He's never been objective when it comes to his Boston teams lmao
Yes you are being homers lol. Still all love tho
I do love the you don’t get in until your dead part lol
Boston fans love to ignore David Ortiz when mentioning cheaters
Shoeless Joe before any of these slugs
You can't bet on the sport you play. This isn't a tough call. It will ruin the sport.
How Great were they before the juice?
2 homers defending Ortiz smh. Such a joke
Ortiz never failed a test
U mad?
@UCEIu9s2oe4eT_XW5r8Ck-ng what’s a lie? They said he failed a confidential test in which the commish said no one should hold that against him. It’s just facts. I’m sorry you want it to be something else
@@stephenl7756 who is They ?
@@basedgodteo1534 I think all 3 should be in bonds Sosa and McGuire.
I'm really intrigued to see what happens in the next 50 years when the record books start being taken over by people who's first language isn't English because I wonder how the American media will treat them... I'm not just talking about guys from DR or PR or Cuba but also from Japan, Korea, etc.
That’s like the NBA keeping Michael Jordan out of the Hall of Fame because he may or may not have gambled on the sport. And may or may not have been secretly suspended by David Stern for a year and a half for doing so. There’s no undeniable proof even if it’s obvious to a blind man (in Bonds Case). Bonds and Clemens were obviously two of the greatest ever at their respective positions in baseball.
Then again, maybe this is the price they had to pay for cheating in a sport that they were already among the best at with or without steroids.
Steroids or not they are 2 of the best players ever and belong in Cooperstown
Dan Shaughnessy is yelling and waiving his fist in the air somewhere.
For the ppl we hurt 🤕...??? They should be sorry giving us great baseball??? Wow 😣.
Roger Maris and Maury Wills are Not IN the hall of fame! WTAF???
Neither is Steve Garvey.
oh no he shouldn't. the argument that they weren't being tested for when he started using them doesn't change the fact he used a PED to play the game. what did hank use? strong cup of coffee? probably not even that.
Is this the guy from the Office?
Bonds got what he deserves, plus Sammy, McGuire, and several pitchers too. We want to forget him and all the other cheats who betrayed the fans, using enhancing steroids to make records they NEVER would have reached otherwise. Just compare stats vs age and productivity to prove it. That's why the cheaters deserve a National Steroid Hall of Fame! And for those who might ask I Love The Yankees madly. I attended for instance opening Day where Reggie hit his fourth home run in 4 pitches, counting the 77 world series. I was one of the idiots who threw Reggie Bars on the field to celebrate seeing a true HOF'r do his thing.
What falls deaf in so many of these conversations about this topic is Bonds and Clemens cheated playing the game.... We can dissect their off the field morality all day long and yeah, many hof guys were bad people, but bonds and Clemens aren't in the hall because they cheated while on the field. Their gargantuan stats aren't real. They're manufactured from cheating. They shamed the game of baseball. Soooo we let them in the baseball hall of fame? That's insane.
I keep seeing these articles/podcasts etc that the hall of fame is broken... Yet if I walked my sons through the hall of fame and had to explain the plack next to Jackie Robinson is from a guy who cheated playing baseball it would really diminish what the hall stands for.
If Bud Selig is in the Hall..??🧐
I care about Cap Anson, the Babe, Ty Cobb and the pitcher who ran off the mound to chase a fire truck out on the street. Baseball has been going downhill since 1939. Put Shoeless Joe in!
Yeah he should be in. If you take like about 200 juiced up HRS away from him.Then he'd be behind like 15 players in career HRS.. Not Cool? Then add like 200 HRS to guys who didn't use steroids for the last 7 or 8 years of their careers. Imagine how many HRS guys like Willie, Hank, and Babe would have hit if they wanted to cheat, and steroids were invented back then? They'd be in the freakin' 900s in lifetime Homers. Fair is fair. There should be two Halls..One for regular players. And one for juiced up players. frankny65yroldwhitekid rockfan.....and baseball fan
I don't understand the argument that Bonds should be in but Pete Rose shouldn't. Pete Rose not being in, in my opinion is the biggest crime in baseball. Especially now when everyone and their mother gambles.
Great points.....except for the rampant homerism. Ortiz deserves the Hall, but come on, at least admit it
I'd start testing whoever left these heros my heros that are my childhood memories out my generation of baseball gets left out because of idiots that write about stuff who says the others did use or didn't who really knows Noone!!! I can see if they were selling it as street drugs and living in drug houses come on people get real😂😂😂 I guess let's leave out history all together professional wrestling yea they never take it noo😂😂😂
@Bill Simmons - So all of the pitchers doctoring the ball, and the Astros trash can doesn't get in the hall? Cheating is cheating (according to the purists) but the application of the rule and subsequent consequences is not consistent. "You can't tell the story of baseball without mentioning " is the basis for the HOF. Our personal lives have morals and ethics.
(or lack thereof) Baseball is no different. Racism, cheating, betting, are all a part of baseball's heritage/story. "You can't tell the story of baseball without mentioning "
This is the problem if the writers like you they will ignore everything and put you in like pudge Rodriguez writers love him but it is obvious he juiced but guys writers hate they will hold the line and never let them in because they don’t like them.
the same fact that was twisted and people ran with it is applied to the Astros. Eveyone running with bullshit narratives
Please explain
Since Ortiz got in, so should everyone!!
The rule was there going back to 1990 but no one enforced it
Before he was using ped bonds still would have hall of fame numbers lol
Being racist sucks but it doesn’t affect your performance on the field
McGuire would not go there to talk about the past….
Manny was great from the beginning Ortiz, Sammy not quite
Peter Edward Rose !! And everyone else can get in line behind him !!
Pete isn't even in line bro. He fucked around and found out. Sucks to suck.
Betting against your own team is way more offensive than steroids.
Juicing is way worse than betting on games...lol...if they won't even consider letting Pete Rose in, why are we even trying to justify letting juicers in?
Ok put em in the museum not the HOF
He flouted the rule, not 'flaunted' the rule.
Griffey Jr was my hero 🧢
Baseball player Pete Rose deserve to go in the Hall of Fame more than Barry Bond.
Skinny Bonds was well on his way to a Hall of Fame career. The steroids just took Bonds to a whole other level.
Well there's 2 Giants on any real MLB Mt. Rushmore so I guess I'm good for now
Great to see Mike Shur on
It is my opinion if a player can not do what is great on the field without enhancements then they should not go in the HOF. I believe this as it would taint what people would view as great. As far as the players that are in with bias personalities, personalities are not what make a great player. In some cases it helps, but it doesn't change what they did on the field. Whereas enhancements the same can not be said. Would Barry Bonds hit all those HRs without them? I seriously doubt it. I think if he had not done them and simply hit 400 HRs and had 200 plus SBs he would have went in. Somewhere in his mind he felt he needed them to be viewed as a great hitter, which is not true. He was great hitter prior to, but because he did them I would not let him in either.
That's not Barry Bonds though.
Bonds had HOF stats BEFORE the 'roid enhancement years, so he should be in regardless of what he supposedly did for a couple years.
@@bobl703 Didn't you see I said that in my comment?
@@atoz4399Yes sorry, I read your comment wrong
Sammy a hof naturally?
Steroids were federally illegal tho
These guys had ways of avoiding testing positive look at Armstrong
You mean the guy that got caught?
I grew up watching and loving baseball with my Dad. I no longer watch or support the sport. Why? Because of their hypocritical quadruple standards...Baseball is a sport who's very foundation is built on cheating...cheating and getting away with it was part of the game! Stealing signs, Doctoring the baseball, Pine tar! Plus baseball is totally okay if they are the ones doing the cheating for the good of the game that is. Baseball was in full support of steroids...they knew what was going on but they didn't care because the people were loving it...only when the truth came out and they were getting the backlash they did a 180! juicing the baseball for home runs...Okay! No problem...The freaking Minnesota Twins now hold the record for most home runs in a season! Not the '27 Yankees but the Twins! That record will stand. Why? Because MLB helped it to happen....for the good of the game! Why don't we hear about the Greenie's era...Uppers being taken like candy! What about those players and those records...oh those are fine because no made a fuss about those drugs helping players perform! As far as I know the Houston Astros still have the title from a year where they stole signs and wore buzzers to win games! So I don't hear about how bad Bonds and Clemons and those players are when hundreds more did steroids but their names are hidden! I will not support a sport where cheating is okay as long as it's the cheating we like but if it's cheating we didn't approve your banned for life...I know I'm just one guy but that's $200 in tickets, $20 parking, $10 beer and $8 hot dog you won't be putting in the till.....