Why Does Dr. Mario Suck When Regular Mario Is Amazing?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In this video I compared Doctor Mario and Mario in Smash Ultimate and try to explain why Doctor Mario is one of the worst characters in the game while Mario is one of the best in the game competitively
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Edited by Casper
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#LarryLurr #smashultimate #supersmashbros
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we can all agree dr marios down air goes hard af
In this economy? Tims dair is stylin'
Timb boots that's right
Yeah can we agree that ?
who is we? Nintendo Wii?
Makes me laugh hard 🤣
It's almost like being a blue collar worker leaves you in better general shape than being a white collar worker.
So fuckin true. Definitely makes you better at fighting
Until your body breaks down at 40-50 years old and a whole lotta joint pains kick in.
Arguable
@@A.S._Trunks lmao!
Taking life advice from SmashBros is a bad idea. Dont get it twisted.
Dr. Mario has an epic yeet back throw. Makes all the downsides worth it.
That has made all the difference
True
The back throw and dair made me a doc main
Gotta throw them out of your office somehow.
It's interesting how Doc is equal or better than Mario in most things but he's bad because the three things Mario does better are the most important things to be better at.
Combos, speed, and recovery are really essential in this game
they're equal in almost nothing tbh
@@verde7595doc has better combos
@@verde7595I mean, isn’t the Dr. biggest defining trait is being slower, but hitting harder than Mario?
@@PointProvenno he does not
Doc is better the worse you are at the game. I can't string together more than 2-3 hit combos in a real match to save my life so those big meaty hits from doc do me wonders.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I have always had a bad combo execution with literally every characters, but Doc is very single-hit based along with a good frame data, making it easier to get in for me
You should play cloud then
I dont know how you and the 50people liking came to that conclusion but if you want to win while beeing bad at the game you shouldnt pick an "extremely high risk mid to high reward" character you should pick an "extremely low risk high reward" character... like min min and samus
@@Pkey995 Assuming they're playing against players of at least similar skill, they have a point. In low skill environments, powerful kill moves are the strongest because they aren't punished as often, and things like frame trapping, combos and timing dodges or parries are very uncommon. Frame data hardly matters at all when players can barely time their moves properly
@@dantebenedetti8095 hmm I mean I could see why sheik for example would be a bad character in a low skill environment due to the lack of kill power. But I would still disagree with doc due to many factors like recovering range and speed. Mario got more than enough kill power and you dont need to do insane combos for Mario to get your kills. But yeah when I think about low lvl players spaming for example docs tornado and never beeing punished I could understand if they think doc is better than mario.
Dr. Mario isn’t as athletic because he spent his time getting a phd
I love how Doc's trophy in Melee basically explains this by stating that he's slower than Mario because of a lack of exercise lmao
@@theangrynerd101 so in the dr mario games dr mario is slightly more fat than the regular mario
in melee mario and dr mario have the same speed but the different its the fact of dr mario is more powerful character
in the alternative universe when mario still dating pauline but in the different job
@theangrynerd101
iirc, pauline guidance easter egg thing sorta confirms why doc hits harder.
it's because he knows where to hit, which implies doc understand the anatomy of every species in smash, including pokemon and whatever ganon are.
Fun Fact: all of Doc’s moves and movement properties have a stupid amount of decimal places (ledge getup does something like 7.87 damage). This is because the smash 4 devs made the basis for doc by taking Mario and applying +22 attack and -65 speed equipment (you guys remember equipment?)
equipment was so weird and useless. at least custom moves were different moves
wait so his power is only +10 but his speed is -30? that explains a lot lmao
Wasn't is +15 Attack and -50 Speed?
@@SonicTheCutehog Source: My memory lol. It could be wrong
@@bucketfullabiscuits7865 the community has spoken, we shall now spread the word and make sure to cite you
What we need is a Dr. Ganondorf
Ganondorf is just Dr. Falcon.
What we need is Dr. Jans
Dr. Ganondorf would just be immobile at this point
@@fissilewhistle mind blowing
Surgeon Punch has 4 seconds of start up but takes 2 stocks at once. -17 on shield.
FUN LARRY FACT: Larry’s favourite vegetables are spinach and broccoli
Good taste.
Delicious 😋😋😋😋
They are rich in minerals ✨️
Mine are broccoli and asparagus
i’ve seen you in an anthony fantano comment section i think
This really shows just how important movement is in Ultimate. A character that is almost identical is objectively worse because they are slower.
Kazuya is slower, but has a better recovery, so he's arguably the 2nd best character in the game. It might just be that Dr. Mario just needs a better recovery with I-frames or something.
i don't think the recovery is the first thing people think of when they think about kazuya @@WarningStrangerDanger
@@skyguy1236 Sure, but there aren't any DLC power creep characters with BAD recoveries, right? Kazuya has a massive midair jump and both side and up specials to choose from. Doc has... Nowhere near that much flexibility.
It's not really because he's slower honestly. It's definitely a con. but is offset by him being designed as more of a defensive character that forces approaches with pills and punishes approaches with heavy damaging combos. What really does him in is his awful recovery. For some reason they thought making him slower wasn't enough. so they decided to neuter any height his down b and up b get.
As someone who has a “sick Dr.Mario” the thing about him is that when you get in a start comboining your opponent he feels like better mario but when you start getting comboed he feel worse than Mac out of the bottom three characters he’s the best by leagues and bounds
Honestly...
In short Mario is faster but weaker and Doc is slower but stronger
Doctor Mario becomes a better character on stage if you utilize more spot dodges and cape. People usually can’t react to the turn around and doc can usually get a kill off of one single cape at mid or high percents which I find crazy.
I've been maining Doc lately and he is so much fun to play. All of his aerials are insanely good and punchy and his yeet back-throw is unstoppable. Winning with him gets you a lot of street cred too.
You all think dr mario is bad, let me list you plenty of things that make him standout
-Super armor down b (grounded)
-His down b has crazy kill power, which leads to to easy kills whether edge guarding or not, it's also a multi hit so it drags your opponent in
-His up b has a strong hitbox (frame 1?)
-No spike fair but a STRONG one
- *Down air*
- His pills are way more bouncy, which easily pressures opponents, and try and make them less aggressive
-The goated back trow
-his down b makes up for good stalling and recovery potential, cuz this lets you stall more in the air, and it lets plan a bit more what you are gonna do, sadly it doesn't really let you get more height
-his side b has trip chance, *You know what that means*
And that's all i have to say as a dr mario main
Mario being able to do two bairs and two uairs in a short hop is also a huge deal
Doc can do 2 up airs too
@L Guy but it doesnt really matter cuz of the angle/power dif
@Leaf Finite it does around twice as much damage though for the most part in terms of benefits and can lead to things like grab and even a stock at lower percents with enough rage near the ledge.
Mario has slightly better combo game but can struggle a bit more taking stocks unless he can cheese (which Doc can also do, but Doc does have benefits from also pretty much getting to play Sm4sh in terms of oos and grab game, and gets generally better reward off of raw hits whereas Mario needs specific percents to get great mileage)
Pills can also frame trap and can set up for a ton which is pretty nice
Additionally, most of his moves hit so hard that there's no chance of follow-up. His poor mobility just compounds this into meaning he basically has no advantage state. He just lands a hit, resets neutral, and fishes for kills when percent is high. I do like playing Doc - more than Mario, even. It just leaves him feeling exceptionally honest, and massively reliant on fundies and reads. If he had just a bit more of a combo game, and a less pathetic Up-b distance, I think he'd be mid-tier. I don't mind his mobility so much, as I'm primarily an Incineroar main.. but the knockback on just about every move in his arsenal means few true follow-ups, and his recovery is such dog water, that he's rewarded less for winning neutral and punished harder for losing it than the majority of the cast.
You also described a lot of what makes Ganondorf incredibly bad that most people don't consider. His individual attacks hit really hard, but since he has little to no combo game, "combo" characters actually have a higher damage output on average, and those with consistent kill confirms end up being a greater threat, but because big man hit hard dumb dumbs get scared and refuse to acknowledge that a bad character needs buffs.
@@toddscanlan2574 Oh that's a completely different soapbox I get on that you've done a great job of covering. I love Ganondorf and he's a character I continue to pull out from time to time, but he's just starving for tools. He's only as scary as you are scared of him. If you treat him with no respect, you realize very quickly that he's pretty dependent on you being scared of him.
@@squidinc4376 Yes, exactly. But if your opponent isn't scared at that point you just better hope that you're a better player, or at least your opponent has bad habits that you can exploit. If there is one thing that Ganon is good at it's hard punishing.
@@toddscanlan2574 facts. I'll switch to Ganondorf if I'm reading an opponent but just not able to execute a punish well enough with another character.
He has plenty of good combos. Skill issue
I always thought about doc as "ganondorf in marios body"
They gutted his mobility.
Mario has good mobility with a high jump and great airspeed along with many good combo tools to compliment it.
Doc has some of the slowest physics & his moveset (mainly Up-Air) didn't fully compliment it.
His shorter traveling Up-B is just the cherry ontop.
Yup
Dr. Mario lost a lot of mobility and flexibility while in med school for 8 years. Also lost a lot of motivation
If Doc is so bad? Why everytime that i encounter a regular Mario in Elite Smash i think: Ok, i just have to care about his grab combos.
And when i encounter a DOC, i know that he'll crush me, dunking my characters more than PRIME Shaq'. Dr.Mario players are very scary.
Just run away from him
Doc online is disgusting if he touches you. Less neutral interactions to get the job done compared to mario in my experience facing him. Hits like a truck
However, Mario is a more viable character but, dr Mario is much more hype character to watch once you get really good with him, I personally don't think he's a bad character if you ignore his terrible recovery plus, for a "slow character" some of his attacks are actually kinda fast
Doc is bad. You will only beat bad players with doc.
@@1stbestpokemaster Alright Mr "regular Mario"
@@bold3166 I don’t play Mario. I main pikachu/lucina. Pika for rush downs/zoners. Lucina for consistent swordie to deal with everything else. Doc is just bad.
@@1stbestpokemaster I didn't ask your mains, lol
I think Mario is more hype to watch tbh, especially with people like Kurama. The problem with Doc is that I mostly see him pill camping until his opponent is in the corner
It's really just because he can't be a better character than Mario because its MARIO, but he also can't be the same, so all that's left is to be a worse character. That being said it's still outrageous that he's that much worse than his counterpart.
Funny enough in melee Dr. Mario was beloved because of how he can round better than the normal Mario and people only know Dr. Mario in smash is because of his competitive legacy in Melee.
@@StateOfTheMind11225only because they forgot to actually make him slower than regular Mario, meaning he literally was just a superior Mario in every way in that game
Mario=Capt. Falcon, Dr. Mario=Ganondorf
love this video! it feels like comparing the two is silly bc their differences are so obvious, but this detailed breakdown is still really interesting and informational
While I think it's cool to have Dr. Mario to be the stronger but slower version of Mario, I think the devs have pushed this idea too far and Dr. Mario is held back by being solely defined by this trope, and as a result he feels incomplete and awkward to play. For the next game they should round out his strengths and weaknesses, and make his moveset a bit more cohesive. Imo an air speed buff and giving him a real aerial combo starter would be great. Giving him a faster and bigger dash attack like Meta Knight's would also help.
Actually, there is so much potential for a entirely different moveset from Mario, would be cool to see
What next game this is the last one
You guys got to be dumb if you think they aren’t going to make another one. When the next console comes out there will be a smash bros on it
@@danielvaladez1286 it makes too much money for this to be the last game. you are wrong 100%
@@zandithshloper2005
Where does one go after Smash ULTIMATE?
Smash Ultimate 2? Hyper Smash Ultimate?
Some other things people forget about doc are that his back air actually lingers longer than regular Mario’s making it better edge guarding and combing. His up smash also lasts longer so the front hit box actually hits people in front of him unlike regular Mario’s. Also his dash attack sends people up making it way better for combos than regular Mario. He’s got some really good stuff honestly
His upair is pretty good aswell in early combos out of upthrow or down throw or as a combo starter and as a killing move.
This man has single handedly made me pick Doc right back up for no reason lmao
Dr. Mario is just diet Mario but with all of Mario's weaknesses + his own. Oddly enough, I still prefer the doc. I guess I've always just been drawn towards characters that are considered low tier. They tend to be way more fun and rewarding to win with.
Doc recovery will never be the worst. That airdodge alone is crazy. Mac could never
Larry was definitely on drugs when he said that.
The thing is lil Mac can travel more distance in the air because he has the same air speed as Mario, sure his up is worse but he has side b and better air mobility so he can make it back from further, I don’t think docs is necessarily worse than macs it just depends on the matchup
@@fullysemiautomatic5618 Mac side B too laggy
Tweek talks but Larry analyzes
yeah but Doctor Mario is slightly more funny
Dr. Mario has good moves but his garbage mobility and speed means that he's beaten to the punch every time. Add an awful recovery to that and his disadvantage sucks, makes for a perfect bottom 5 character.
To an extent, he can compensate for his lack of range and speed with his frame data and if he's shielding a lot it can be annoying. That's why I don't think he's the worst. But you never have to play his game, so it's just delaying the inevitable lol
I love you Larry , you are so thorough with a video like this. Thank you for your HARD WORK and doing a good job sir
Doc being so much worse than Mario in Smash 4 and Ultimate is because the devs adjusted Dr. Mario's stats using custom equipment. Dr. Mario's stats are coded as the same as Mario's, but are given multipliers in game. Generally, Dr. Mario is Mario with +15 Attack and -50 Speed.
It sucks that with other clone characters (Marth/Lucina, Simon/Richter, Roy/Chrom) their physics weren’t changed much if at all
If doc had the same physics as Mario, he’d be so much better, no recovery changes necessary
Except then he'd be ridiculous. He'd need to get a damage/knickknacks nerf. Basically a ganon+Mario mash up
I think the fact the clones characters have the same stats sucks for those clones. Would’ve been much more interesting if all of them had different stats to differentiate them further from their original. Though I guess that would’ve not made them clones anymore.
well those characters you listed are echoes, not clones- examples of other clones would be C. Falcon/Ganondorf or Marth/Roy
Mario/Dr. Mario is better executed than Simon/Richter, because at least there’s actual gameplay differences, what was the point of making Simon and Richter separate characters if they wouldn’t even be given the Pit/Dark Pit treatment?
Shaved Larry = Dr. Mario
Mustache Larry = Mario
I want his old up-b turnaround back. I swear it was way easier in Smash 4
8:11 When doc hits you with his foot it doesn’t do much but if he hits you with his A$$ you die for some reason
Another very important difference you missed is that doc’s back throw is infinitely more gangster 💯
Dr. Mario is....
*LITERALLY GARBAGE THAN MARIO, MARIO IS ALWAYS BETTER*
But LarryLurr!!1!1!1! Dr Mario is acktually the hardest because I keep loosing to him on leval 9 cppu!!1!1!1!1!1!1!1!1!1!1 😭😭😩😤🤓
STOP THE CAP
*STOP THE CAP RIGHT NOW*
I think people need to stop letting mario go to PS2. He is not ok on that stage, the extra platform height compared to SBF makes all the difference for living or dying
I do agree, but the problem is that Mario is still really good on other platform stages. Depending on the stagelist and match up PS2 is the lesser of evils
Did someone in chat really say "worse than Mac's recovery?" Mac's recovery isn't even that bad. It goes far and he has mixups 😭 Ganondorf though...
4:25 that’s cus those pills be fucking you up
so basically good across all smash games = speed (air or ground or both) if you can reach the target faster you can keep up the combo pressure. High knockback characters with poor recovery never make it in this games, ever.
Yeah but back throw tho
trueeee
Down throw is better in most situations since you can combo into down b or up b
Good insight. You gotta admit it is fun to toss an opponent off screen in a hurry haha
Since it throws you diagonally, it doesn't even kill that fast, I've had a lot of people living because of di at like 120-130 on ledge
Dr. Mario being debatably the worst character in the game? Not even close
Dr. Mario will forever be more fun than Mario due to the fact that instead of relying on combo strings that every other Mario player does, you have to have true game sense and reading abilities to pull shit off, and when you do it feels amazing.
Doc is my favorite character to use in a casual session… because that’s the only time I do well with him.
Everything you've said in this video only makes dr mario cooler
I could forgive the slower mobility if Doc had a decent combo game and/or recovery. But really, he is just a worse Mario that hits slightly harder.
Even though Dr. Mario sucks because he's slow, that doesn't stop me from maining hin.
Winning with dr Mario we all love and respect you you’ve stuck around the community since melee winning with Mario you’ve been broke since brawl no one will be hyped if you win honestly Mario is a lot less toxic then Wii Us version cuz the enhanced air dodging n speed of ultimate but he has some of the easiest bread n butter combos n spikes in the game I don’t hate him I just think of all the Mario mascots which r debatablely some of the most unique n fun characters in the series why main just Mario theirs no heart no soul
Lmao someone do a mario counter on many times he said Mario 💀
Lurrless Larry is Clurrsed
Dr. Mario basically has 2 things going for him: Pills and better kill power. Otherwise, Mario is better at everything else. More speed, get string combos together and have them last much longer, better down special, better recovery and jump height, etc. Both characters are fairly easy to use, with Doc being better for bad players and beginners while Mario is better for mid/high level players and people who know the basics and fundamentals of the game. At least Doc had his time to shine in Melee.
I personally think Doc's down special is better than Mario's. FLUDD is very niche, while Doc Tornado aids recovery AND is a powerful kill move.
I hate Cloud's bottom tier recovery
Ganon has the worse recovery in the game
It's because he's a healer not a fighter
Doc is not that bad!!!
It’s because of the *FoRwArD* *AeRiAl*
I Am A Rank 1 Mario Player!
Don’t sleep on Doc….
Dr. Mario is probably the biggest example of mobility being way more important than raw damage in Smash
If they just either buffed his mobility or made his attack power even greater, he’d probably be at least a decent character
It's cause of slow movement one of if not the worst recovery in the game and stubby range. If he double jumps wrong in neutral that could lead him to lose a stock and because his air drift and ground speed is so bad it's easy to juggle him and just run away from him. The only thing he has going for him is damage and some combo potential but what good are those things if you can never hit your opponent. The only reason a dr mario player beats anyone is just due to match up inexperience and the other player being better
As a Dr mario main, my life is pain
Dr. Mario is the heavy weight version of Mario. Slow but strong but none of the weight and still has the moveset that is suppose to combo when most hits knock the opponent out of the combo.
Mario runs after gyal, steals coins and items wherever he goes, he intentionally lets peach get kidnapped just to go “save her”, manipulation tactics, abuses his brother, I could go on and on. Dr Mario just studied, got his doctorate, and gives pills to mfs. He’s the honourable one
I understand what they were going for, with Dr. Mario being the slower but stronger variant of Mario, but it makes no sense. Just give him the same mobility as Mario, he's the same person. It would help him out massively, and he'd still be different because his moves come out slower, send at different angles, and hit harder.
At that point just make a new character, why would I want to play mario but his moves are a bit different?
If doc at the VERY least had a range increase on his attacks, it’d make his downgrades that more bearable. Making him so much slower, giving him a much worse recovery, and way less combo potential and the only payoff is better kill power just isn’t worth it
Dr Mario isn’t a character. He’s a message. From the developers. Showing us how powerful they are with their game and how powerless we truly are, how we are in the end we truly are playing THEIR game. Playing by THEIR rules. Our likes and dislikes mean nothing to them
Why play the doctor while the plumber is much better.
Nah,Dr Mario is better lol.
Well, here's what I don't get it every fighting gamer is aware every frame per second counts, then why speed up those character's frames to improve the gameplay? That genuinely sounds like a great move.
I think Mario's punish game is just better, because even though doc has more confirms and set ups, bacon and the competitive players have to get reads and win 4-5 neutral interactions before killing.
With Mario you win 2-3 and you can just combo them off the top of get a F-air spike, and even if it doesn't kill, congrats your opponent is at 90-100%
I just like doc’s spike. I like playing him because he feels heavier than Mario. But I usually just play both cuz why not
Docs biggest issue imo is punish game. His fair is theoretically more useful than mario since it can kill from more parts of stage, but doc is never comboing into fair. Mario does constantly. If doc could actually get mario level combos hed be good. Regardless of recovery
Ganondorf’s recovery is still worse than Doc’s imo. Ganon just has 0 mixups whereas Doc has some at least scarcely existent mixup potential.
Why does Dr. Mario suck? All he does is down-b and forward smash! Oh wait…
Dr. Mario player here I agree with everything and thank you for actually giving a in-depth analysis rather than just saying Doc is just trash I wish his recovery was slightly better 😢
give him down b recovery back after he's hit and make up b go just a bit further.
He recovers real bad, Up b also gets slightly nerfed cause its more punishable, but I think that's defo worth it
Why are you wrong?
Still no one talks about Doc's jab upb
Why do you shave 😢. The whole community is in agreement that you look so good and iconic with your beard.
Dr Mario has no combos
YOU ARE WRONG DOCTOR MARIO IS GOOD. YOU JUST HAVE TO PLAY HIM RIGHT. SEE, MY DOC THE DOCTOR FROM GREY'S ANATOMY. YOUR DOC, YOUR DOC IS THE DOCTOR FROM THE SIMPSONS. MY DOC IS THE DOCTOR FROM SCRUBS YOUR IS A SCRUB. MY DOC IS DR LIGHT. YOUR DOC DOCTOR WILEY. In conclusion, your doc catch apples.
Cause with a medical degree, you don't have to be the best at fighting
i wanna say i love dr mario and mario cause both of them are my favorites in super smash bros ultimate
I feel personally attacked by this Larry >:(
Mobility.
It's literally the same reason why Falcon is top tier but Ganon is bottom tier
Il continue playing the doc over regular mario idc tbhh
I haven't played any SSB's anything close to seriously (""""""seriously"""""") since Brawl. Someone explain this to me in idiot-friendly terms.
"Dr. Mario might be the worst character."
How is this possible when characters like Pichu, Ness, and Ganondorf exist?
Hey larry! I see you doing alot of things to show off docs kill confirms!
Me: *JAB UP B AT 120 PERCENT BEING TRUE*
Maybe unpopular, but I've always liked Doc way more than Mario, especially in Ultimate. Yes, he has less mobility, but I can't play Mario even close to the level that my Doc is. I started getting good with Doc in Smash 4 because of Luigi and his cyclone similarities.
Also, many people are quick to say, "Tornado is bad as recovery option." That's not always the case." It can be used to stall and assist in a low recovery off stage. It can also be used to punish characters who can recover high. For example, Snake likes to cipher-up high and I can't count how many times I've punished that since no one expects Doc to reach up high.
Plus, pills are better for stage control. I find them much easier to sneak in on an opponent than fireballs.
Lastly, up-B out-of-shield is so satisfying. The threat of it at high percents makes people play more cautiously, which Doc can capitalize on.
Ultimately, I still think Mario's mobility outshines Doc, but I prefer Doc way more. He requires a lot of creativity to work, but is more fun to use.
Snake and Mega Man are my top 2 characters, but Doc is in third place for me.
Oh shit, dr. Mario is bad? Damn, he's my main D:》
Man there’s so much missing about Doc in this video as a certified Autistic Doctistic, but main points I think you missed were
1: Up Air doesn’t send directly up, but instead varies similar to Ganon’s Up air which contributes to Doc killing offstage and hurts his combo game as he can’t follow up Up-Air at higher percents
2: Docs tech chases can be busted if he can land them, having tornado being a long lasting armored option that can cover get up attack and normal get up, along side up B, back air, dash attack, and pill, but because he’s so slow it’s more situational to be able to get those tech chases.
3: You bring up that Docs cape doesn’t stall, but that’s actually the worst part for Doc. Recovering with Tornado needs you to angle your stick diagonally downward to make the most out of it, so you have what little momentum you can get without going nowhere, and you need to mash as much as possible to actually gain height and not lose any. It’s suicide if you accidentally cape instead of tornado and it’s possible with smash’s buffer system you could just cape your way down to hell.
4: Pill is amazing as a combo tool, but another important part of it is that it bounces instead of trailing the ground which serves to punish doc as smaller, faster characters like Pickachu or joker in his running animation can low profile consistently.
Sorry if this comes off as condescending but I fucking love this character and I know them inside and out, and this video is great at keeping it simple without bogging people down with detail, thank you fellow Larry
I've won locals with Doc. Mario but yeah he's incredibly bad I've been saying this for years. Wish he just had Mario's airspeed/jump height then he wouldn't be so bad.