23:22 I've been wondering for forever why GT Goku was just trying to tank it. But then I realized that SSJ4 Goku could ABSORB energy attacks like we saw Goku do to Beerus's last energy ball as SSG. Since SSJ4 Goku did it against Baby. He was literally using SSB Goku's power to go into the Full Power SSJ4 State right here. This man be smart as wack yo.
IKILLMASTER18 0 GT goku has a good base form so There’s a little chance he can’t use ssj4 power against ssj blue. Power level is almost the same if you look at their base form x Transformation
GT Goku trained with Uub for years with God ki and had the plot device the tail growing back, Super Goku still got ten years to build up that much stamina, it wasn't even fair if anything, it should have been GT Goku after Baby Vegeta saga was over.
@Nolan Akers dont worry Ss4 or GT are really not playing in Super goku league🤷🏾 Super goku has feats in the beginning of the series that surpasses even the feats of Ss4 gogeta🤷🏾
No. He collapsed because he used perfected blue in the battle but was so reckless that he forgot the blue is a transformation that drains a lot of ki and stamina. (As seen in the battle with Zamasu that his arm was licking out steam that is his ki coming out by pure pressure the he couldn't contain it) No stamina wouldn't make him walk only just stand for a moment while he fall by pure exhaustion and lost consciousness (But I do like your idea and aftermath that is mindblowing)
@@spoodystk But his hair was standing up a little and there were sparkles around him. Ultra Instinct is basically your body moving on it's own without the mind and Super Goku(Manga) was unconscious so it's very likely he achieved Ultra Instinct for a moment but couldn't keep it due to his body being too worn out.
@@primalgod1813 yes I know about ultra instinct. But you must always remember that stamina is everything when it comes to battle and in life Without stamina you wouldn't walk, without stamina you wouldn't run as fast, without stamina you wouldn't be awake and without stamina you wouldn't breathing calmly. Us human have energy and many being have energy that we always use when it comes to many thing like lifting a weight but later on you would get tired by just lifting 15 tines, that why many sport use many energy when it comes to basketball, football and so on. GT Goku even stated it in the end of the video when he achieved ultra instinct that he was standing with pure determination but he lost too much stamina when using blue he couldn't stand for a couple of second. Ultra Instinct is your body moving by itself without the using of the mind but you must understand that before ultra instinct he was using perfect blue that drains a lot of energy and stamina. Blue can only be use twice a day stated by whis in the manga.
@@primalgod1813 Even if the body is moving unconsciously, it still needs energy to move. Goku barely had enough energy to keep himself breathing, let alone start dodging attacks at lightspeed.
“How is it that these fan animations get me more hyped for the shows half the time?!” Because they’re made with 100% pure, unadulterated love from a fan. No corporate executives and deadlines here! 😁👍🏻
Ever since I first saw Super Saiyan 4 as a teen, it has been deemed my favorite SS form since then. When I first saw this vid, it made me exponentially proud to see SS4 in this kind of light.
IDK I know this is late, but by that logic GT Goku would still win. Super Goku stood up, but he was first identified unconscious. In standard tournament rules, a KO is still an elimination. Even though GT Goku was still on the ground, he was awake and still talking, not to mention still in Super Saiyan 4. It also could not be a draw because GT Goku was slowly rising, which would still declare him the victor.
There was another factor in play here that I think was overlooked: When the Grand Priest made GT Goku an adult, Goku said he felt a lot stronger than he did before. If you'll recall, he couldn't stay in Super Sayian 3 as a kid during GT because he had trouble utilizing that much energy. As an adult, not only does that problem vanish, but he now has access to that energy as a baseline. This provides a (I feel) pretty sizable boost to his baseline power level, and it made all his forms a lot stronger. Now, if DBS Goku grows back his tail somehow, it would likely make his regular Super Sayian transformations easier to maintain. But since SS God, Blue, and Ultra Instinct are using separate ki sources, I'm not sure it would affect those much, if at all. And since UI is something even gods can attain, I'm nearly certain the tail wouldn't affect it.
DatShadyGuy I feel like the tail would effect ultra instinct, at least a small amount. As in dragon ball, Goku losing his tail left him weaker, and might have sapped his stamina, and when he regrew it he got stronger as shown when he was trapped by the dragons gum. The tail might provide a slight stamina boost for ultra instinct, but I feel it might not effect the god forms too much since they use god ki and not normal energy.
It did mention in GT where Goku said that his small body can’t handle the power of Super Saiyan 3 for long, his older body was a lot more developed and resilient.
@@BTbiscuit726 I don't think that the tail is as important as you say at least not in canon. Vegeta who is a Sayian Prince and knows pretty much everything about the race and Oozaru form (he was able to gain full control over it) doesn't give a shit about his tail and not once does he try to get it back (and he could've used Dragon Balls). Not to mention that hybrids born *without* tails are stated to be stronger than those born with tails. Broly can use Oozaru power even without a tail. Overall Toriyama seems to dislike tails and Oozaru and that's the reason why it never shows up again and why new Sayians don't even have tails.
@-Limit breaker tenkaichi SS4 fan- I can agree with this. Gt Goku has a better understanding of his techniques. Not to mention that he has a lot more stamina
Well thinge were toned down in the show while the manga kept things like blood and bad mouthing. Which is why the manga did much better in the Goku Black arc because the stakes felt high and it gave characters much more depth. Although the TOP arc was less than average for the manga
Manga super goku is surely cocky as hell like holy sh**, he led his guard down twice (toppo and gt goku if it counts). I mean it's fine if the mc is op, cocky and has a bad mouth but for a shounen character like manga super goku is an instant regret lmao
@@Boomerbang2 this is why i like the series super goku better he isnt cocky and he is stronger than manga goku and doesnt have stamina problems like the manga maybe thats why he didnt use series goku and used manga goku
@@shubhamsonsurkar3782 Maybe is a bit late to answer but anyway I'll say it, Vegeta's clothes break but at the moment he became Ssj4, he appear with his pants, gloves and boots again. I guess the transition of the Oozaru and the transformation generate clothing.
Thats just in general day to day life, give him a maths problem, he'll most likely be unable to do it. But in battle he is very intelligent, he's a saiyan. Prime example of my point: 29:08 But don't get the wrong idea, I do not wish for conflict. While I do prefer Super to GT, I do still very much enjoy GT.
I loved this fight for a few reasons. One, it showed some love to SSJ4, duh. But the main thing is how it was less a battle of speed and power and more about intellect. GT Goku has about two decades more fighting experience than Super Goku, even if he has less power, which he used to stand a chance against Super Goku who lacked suck strategy. It was a battle of experience and technique when it came down to it, even that teaser at the end where Super Goku went Ultra Instinct Omen, GT Goku was correct in that he was only standing out of determination, he didn't have any strength to keep going whatsoever. Just how smart this fight was was brilliant
Fuck ssj4 And Bullshit, you’re forgetting the healing factor that ssg has, even being able to transform into it when deathly injured and healing very quickly, even when goku is barely conscious So goku should have been able to heal and beat GT goku I do not agree with this battle at all
SsjG and ssj4 both have healing abilities but are forgotten about by the writers because both have only been seen/used once (super when he got stabbed by Beerus and GT when his eyes healed after Eis Shenron blinded them) BUT even if he does have more stamina than god and blue Goku, the power difference is too great for ssj4 Goku to even compete with super Goku. The God transformation increases his power from multi solar-system level or galaxy level(ssj3 power) to beyond universal. That itself puts him above omega Shenron(who could only destroy the universe by spreading his negative energy over MANY years as opposed to instantly in the 3 clashes with Beerus) to debatably a little above ssj4 Gogeta. GT Goku stands no chance in this fight after ssjg is unleashed, but everything else before hand is completely accurate.
@@wolfspider2034 Maybe thats why Super Goku is a bit on the lower scale. GT Goku had a chance to grow up in a stable environment, while Super Goku didn't get that chance.
1. Because he became a child 2. Goku never talks about or uses ssj4 outside of gt 3. Pan was born later in super 4. Android 17 never talks about his super 17 form in dbz or dbs that's why it's not canon
For the regular transformations yes, but the god transformations aren’t natural, this making them more draining, it could help, but it would guarantee nothing.
I'm just scrolling through the comments and I'm here to settle the debate BASED ON HYOURIN'S LOGIC (and from some research). In the animation, DBS Goku from the manga is used. Although there was a panel while he was training with Whis of a silhouette of SSJGod behind him, it wasn't explicitly stated that he absorbed the god ki. This was also mentioned in the Archive section of the animation, as Goku didn't revert to SSJ in his fight against Beerus like he did in the anime. His base form and any of his regular SSJ transformations (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) are weaker than their anime counterparts after the fight with Beerus. Also stated in the video, manga DBS Goku perfected SSJB. In the manga, SSJB was a transformation that offered more power and ki control at the cost of stamina. That is why Goku preferred using SSJGod in the manga, because it was a decent boost in strength and ki without the strain in stamina. In the video, GT Goku was changed to an adult, which is why forms that were a struggle to maintain while he was a kid like SSJ3, was able to be used more effectively on top of having the tail which Elder Kai in the anime said was needed to help maintain the form. GT Goku in his base form was just as strong or even stronger than manga DBS Goku because he has trained with Uub for a decade or even longer since they were seen training in the HBTC. It's even implied in the anime that Base GT Goku as a kid was stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku when he was fighting Kid Buu. As stated in the video, manga SSJB Goku was stronger than GT SSJ4 Goku at the cost of stamina. The reason SSJ4 won isn't because it was the stronger form, but the form with virtually zero drawbacks. As I mentioned earlier, DBS manga Goku prefers SSJGod over SSJB for this very reason, a longer power boost over a shorter and more powerful form. I feel like the animator did his best not only on the research, but trying to tie everything and provide an explanation before and during the fight to avoid any inconsistencies. An amazing animation with superb fighting and clever storytelling.
But he forgot 1 single thing. The GT Perfect File stated that. When GT Goku got turned into a child, it was his STAMINA that was reduced, not power. So even when the Grand Minister turned GT Goku into an adult again. Hi base power would stay the same.
I’m glad that the animator used Manga Goku instead of Anime Goku, since the Anime version is a genius at fighting and can maintain Blue Kaioken for a long time in ToP
you're ignoring the fact that the manga follows the movie of Fukkatsu no F, in which base Goku easily takes care of Freeza, whom had just one-punched Gohan out of Super Saiyan (and Super Saiyan Gohan may be weaker than Mystic Gohan, but he's at least stronger than Piccolo, who himself should at least be stronger than Dabura/ Super Perfect Cell at this point)
João Calixto not necessarily, if you ain’t a Saiyan they side line you hard, piccolo is still weaker than cell probably. Also Gohan in resurrection F is without any training for a long time making him not even half as strong as mystic, heck he would probably be weaker than he was against cell.
@@calebcollins5887 no way in hell is Piccolo weaker than Cell. In the manga he fought well against Frost, losing only due to the poison, who is at least stronger than Freeza in his true form from RoF, as he pushes Goku into Super Saiyan. And Gohan being able to knock out Shisami with one punch after Piccolo struggled with him is enough argument to state that he is at least stronger than he was in early Boo Saga
@@therealgoat1603 ss blue and god are not transformations that's why. They are both goku switching to using god ki instead of his normal ki( which is enhanced with some good ki) Basically it's like if goku was a facet cold water would be his natural ki. But turning that off and switching to hot water (his God ki) if you follow..
Silverwind X true at this point both are god level beings in terms of power, even greater Goku, just cause Super is stronger GT Goku can still win fairly easily if he gets a few good hits in.
Who cares about power levels? Super Goku may have the power and speed advantage, but GT Goku has the advantage in every other category: less stamina drain, skill, intelligence, etc.
Who else noticed that GT Goku absorbed the 4-star ball last. It may be nothing, but if it was, it was a nice touch. It goes back to early dragonball with him having his Grandpa's ball and Bulma inviting him to go on the journey.
@@drift2557 my problem with it the game is called dragon ball fighterz not dragon ball fightersuper so GT can be I it hell it has dan dan kokoro hikareteku why not GT. Base forms are ok because they are iconic.
(Spoiler Alert) At the end of the video, Manga Goku says if he wants to win the tournament of power he needs to do more than just rely on brute strength, and in the manga, master Roshi says the same thing to Goku and then goes on to fight Jiren and lose. Then Goku goes ultra instinct for the first time in the manga. I like how the ending HyourinJutsu has made correlates to the story in the manga and shows a slight possibility for goku to go ultra instinct before the ending credits, Very good Allusion my friend!
Was dissapointed that Super Goku lost, but when looking at it, it makes sense: Argument No.1: MSSJB (Mastered Super Saiyan Blue): Is a form beyond SSJB, and it was established and said in the manga that the SSJB transformation itself takes about 60% of one's Ki and Stamina. And then transforming into MSSJB, it's clear to say atleast 65% has been used up just for transformations. Then we have to calculate in SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJG and SSJB. In all forms he got a beating and used up a lot of energy, so by the times he goes MSSJB, it's easy to say he used ATLEAST 70% of his Ki and Stamina. (FYI: That's still being generous. It's been said that SSJ3 has insane stamina and ki consumption.) Argument No.2: MSSJB requires insane concentration, meanwhile SSJ4 doesn't. To maintain his godly state, Super Goku has to focus on controlling his KI like the Kaioken, meanwhile SSJ4 is primal and only has low energy consumption. *Conclusion:* GT Goku wins because of his immense Base Energy attained through training, skill through experience and the extra power from absorbing the black star dragon balls. His forms are also all mastered, increasing the individual multipliers to: - SSJ: x50 [x70Mastered] - SSJ2: x100 [X150Mastered] - SSJ3: x400 [X450Mastered] -SSJ4: x3,500,000,000 [No Mastery Achieved] Also, the SSJ4 form, while still not being AS strong as SSJB Goku and MSSJB Goku, has a lesser KI and Stamina consumption along with a primal behaviour, not needing concentration. Be reminded all multipliers are taken of my personal powerscale or were said so by the Toei staff themselves.
Let me explain what just happened... In the anime of Super, Goku fought Beerus in super sayian God but in the middle of the fight, he ran out of power, and went back to super sayian. While he was fighting, however, he still could keep up with Beerus, even without Super sayian god, because his body absorbed god ki, and it was much stronger than before. That state (absorbed god ki by Goku) is called Saiyan beyond god, or God essence... In the manga however, Goku never ran out of power with super saiyan god and never absorbed its power, and as a result he never had the state of God essence, meaning that his base form and super saiyan forms were as strong as before he became super saiyan god. That, along with the fact that GT Goku is older and could train much more than Super Goku is why GT Goku's Base, SSJ1, 2, and 3 forms were significantly stronger than Super (manga) Goku's. Now for the Ssj blue vs Ssj 4 part, Goku in the anime of super used Kaioken Blue which multiplies the power of blue, while in the manga, he never did that, and used Mastered Blue, a form which is more efficient and powerful than Casual Blue, but uses MUCH more stamina. It should even surpass Kaioken Blue in stamina usage... That is why he lost to GT Goku. If it was Goku from Super's anime, it would probably be Super Goku's win.
You know that makes more sense. I kinda followed the manga in and out and the anime the whole way. In this case that explains the differences well. Kaggy pin this comment to the top lol
GT Goku would defeat both versions of DBS Goku. Ultimate Gohan and Trunks reached SSJB tier almost effortlessly in ridiculously short spaces of time and they were both infinitely weaker than End of Z Goku who's base form alone is stornger than both of them before they got their boosts, and end of Z Goku's training of half a decade with a reborn kid buu is inifinitely more strength boosting than the microscopic level of prep Gohan and Trunks got in super to make them reach SSJB tier so by that alone just going off how easy Gohan and Trunks got to SSJB tier, GT Goku should be way above grand priest if Gohan and Trunks can reach SSJB with barely any training and in crazily short time, GT Goku's training and time training makes Gohan and Trunk's seem microscopic, and this actually shows in the fights SSJB Goku struggles with Ultimate Gohan GT (BASE) Goku toys with (SSJ) Ultimate Gohan, (And keep in mind this was the weakest version of GT base Goku before he got 2 160x boosts in the next 2 arcs) From everything I've analyzed the shocker is that GT Goku was stronger than DBS Goku all along, and not just stronger, but on a completely different echelon of power by virtue of scaling. And he doesn't even loose in the flawed feat argument either despite the ignorance of most fans who assume DBS Goku has to be stronger all because of the overhyped concept of universe busting, yet come with no evidence that GT Goku cannot universe bust and fail to realize the basic logic that feats are absolutely inconsistent with scaling like where SSJB Vegito uses his most powerful blast at max power to kill Zamasu and it only destroys a building wile Roshi and Piccolo easily destroy a moon with almost no effort, feats are just dramatic effect not serious power measurements, but despite the fact that feats are completely inadmissible there is proof of universe busting in GT as Omega Shenron claims that he can and I qoute" I am a god of destruction and I will utterly destroy the universe with my minus power and all that there is" so not only can he destroy the universe with his minus power but all that there is meaning whatevers outside the universe meaning multiverse if we want to go there, and to add more to this, Omega when using his minus power is in a state of zero effort, he is not even exerting any of his effort to destroy a universe, he doesn't put his actual power behind it, so he can destroy a universe just by standing there thinking about, what could he do if he actually put all his power into it? Super fans ignore all this and pretty much every ounce of evidence in GT and just say "I like SSJ4's design, but pretty sure Blue is stronger" with no facts whatsoever. Its a very naive fanbase tbh.
mcBUFFfluff yea but dont forget that the super manga goku is weaker than the anime goku so if it was the anime version then super goku would have won but i like the ssj4 form better cause all blue is is super saiyan blue hair dye😂😂
no, he would not: 1) he would need to become oozaru gold first and then gain self control; Super Goku is too brainless to do such a thing. 2) SSJ4 is described as the pinnacle of a saiyan power, a form that unlock his full potential, so, even if he has god ki, he would stay in SSj4 form, because God ki would be already used in that form.
This makes sense GT Goku has experience and a higher intellect fighting wise. Super just hands out power levels like its nothing i mean look at Kefla handling SSGSS. Super is nonsense when it comes to scaling so yeah
Now it makes a little more sense, I mean, Kale is the LSSJ from U6 and Kefla is a Potara Fusion with her in it, Kefla defeated the SSJB, right? Then, now, we have Broly who wins against two SSJBs in his SSJ form, and Gogeta in SSJ kicked his ass, even as the Green SSJ (SSJFP or LSSJ) in Blue. With the movie: Gogeta SSJ>Broly SSJ>Goku and Vegeta SSJB, so Kefla SSJ should win against a Goku SSJB, I mean Broly must be stronger than Kale, but Kefla should be near him in Power level, a fusion is leagues above the individual fused ones, at least that's my opinion
The manga is much better at scaling, they even put Gohan equal to Kelfa, which answers how strong Gohan could be at his best. Also the tournament of power isn’t as drawn out, which has its drawbacks but was still a good fight
PowerJolt72 Kefla handling blue Goku? Nah not really. Goku was heavily fatigued when he fought Kefla and he still managed to land some good hits. Full power Ssb Goku would’ve won.
Keep this in mind even doe it’s not cannon we actually don’t know gt goku’s true power sense him being a kid lowered his power so ssj4 could be way stronger than god
Your correct but when we think about it though, gt goku and his ssj4 wasnt really affected by his kid form considering he was able to use instant transmission and has the strength of his adult form
To be honest GT Goku as an Adult has WAY more stamina and coupled with his tail it increases his control by a significant amount. Not to mention his Base form was definitely the right strength here. In the end Blue Goku is definitely stronger but this seemed legit. If you're really angry about it make it that absorbing the dragon have him extra strength.
@@jibrael5705 I believe they used Manga Goku because he didn't absorb God Ki like anime Goku did, which gave him a massive power boost in his base form. So I'm guessing Hyro Used Manga Goku so it will be fair to Gt Goku. Great fight nonetheless
To be fair the fact why Super Manga Gokus Base Form and SSJ 1-3 was so weak compared to GT Gokus first 3 Transformation is because in the Manga Goku didnt absorbed the SSJGod Power into his Base form like in the Anime. Super Anime Goku would probably destroy GT Goku with his SSJ Blue. The Stamina would be no problem seeing as Anime Goku completely masterd Kaioken over Blue with mostly no Energy Loosing
@@jordanb9078 gt goku trained nonstop since the end of z (plus a lot of extra time in the hyperbolic time chamber). That's more than 10 years of straight training, compared to super who trained for like what? A month? Then didn't train again for a few months? Super goku had way to many breaks compared to gt. There's no mistaking that in terms of base form, GT completely and utterly destroys super
I'am Sorry That Is Dumb headcanon. There is no indication that Manga Goku is weaker. Many disregard the Fact that Whiss Trained Goku and Vegeta. Also Many Failed to notice the image of SS God Behind Goki when he spared With Whiss
@@vaquishersManga Goku didn't initially absorb SSG into his base but he's shown the power(indicated by the silhouette of SSG behind him in one panel.)
I don't exactly want to say that this is how it should be, but this ending rings home everything Dragonball was supposed to stand for. All the power in the world means jack if you can't hold on to it and in a battle of attrition, it's skill and conservation that will win.
This comment of yours was about a year ago, but I think you mixed up the manga with the anime here. The grand priest interrupted in the anime, while the manga had the whole fight.
What if... Shallot got super Saiyan 2 during cell arc Super saiyan 3 during the buu arc Super saiyan 4 During a unspecified chapter(because pan is in the game and her arc shows GT Trunks and goku) God during Beerus and blue during Golden Frieza Ultra instinct and ssjbe would be over kill
Your headcannon is heavily flawed, GT Goku did not do the ritual correctly, therefore, Gogeta is not a Super Saiyan God, the red hair could be a possible mistake made on Toei's end.
@@saryavt One of the producers for Dragon Ball GT simply stated in an interview that they colored SSJ4 Gogeta's hair red simply because it "looked strong." There weren't any mistakes (or logic for that matter) that occurred.
E X T R A T H I C C “Incomplete”. It’s mentioned by GT Goku here that people could still feel his energy and he dismisses it, but I like the idea of Gogeta’s red hair kind of being an effect of the five Saiyan powers coming together, but improperly. He got the red hair and maybe a bit of a power boost, but he never achieved godly status. Basically it was kinda like what happened to Goku when they didn’t have enough Saiyans, but flashier. Seems like a solid enough head canon to me.
I think both gt and super get to much hate like gt the first arc is pretty boring kid goku and what they did to vegeta but in super people look for things to hate like watch the movies of the first 2 super arcs like the goku black arc ending sure but but saying it sucks because trunks has different color or colour IDC which. its stupid or goku has so much plot armour or armor again IDC which but when he gets ssj OK but he hasn't beaten a single main enemy in super but plot armour or armor
One thing I love about this is that when Goku first turns Blue against Three, he says "Ten percent would be overkill" and Super Saiyan 4 is a 10x multiplier. Just some great attention to detail.
That stupid fucking tail theory has no basis whatsoever, unless this is directly stated in the manga/anime or the daisenshiu’s that should not be applicable
Actually in manga goku got a pretty noticeable power up in his first world tournament when his tail grew back. I'd say about twice as strong. Don't know how it would affect endurance though.
I haven't seen GT yet, but I am going to soon, however I do like the designs for different forms of Goku and even his base form from GT more than other series/canons.
Not Sure If This Is What You Mean But Yes, Time-Lines And Time-Travel Affects Everything In A Multiversal Scale, That Is How There Are Multiple Zamasu And Multiple Zeno-Sama Even If Said Time Travel Was Made IN Universe 7 (By Trunks) But Still Affected Universe 12 (Zamazu's Universe) And Also Zeno (In His Own "Palace/Realm" Outside Of Any Universe)
Yeah i was always thinking..."well super doesnt have a tail and gt does so yeah gt has more control over his power but super has way more powerful transformations so it is down to who is better strategist"
This is basically SKILL vs FORMS,GT GOKU in base is much stronger than DBS Goku and thats a fact,only thing makes dbs goku strong are his forms CHANGE MY MIND
Okay. even if GT ssj4 Goku does have more stamina than god and blue Goku, the power difference is too great for ssj4 Goku to even compete with super Goku. The God transformation increases his power from multi solar-system level or galaxy level(ssj3 power) to beyond universal. That itself puts him above omega Shenron(who could only destroy the universe by spreading his negative energy over MANY years as opposed to instantly in the 3 clashes with Beerus) to debatably a little above ssj4 Gogeta. GT Goku stands no chance in this fight after ssjg is unleashed, but everything else before hand is completely accurate.
@@hotrodthe1 even tho my favorite form is ssj4 someone did a 30min video on how much stronger u get in the ssj4 state,its stated that the form is stronger then god when you are lowballing it,on a highball ssj4 is nothing compares to even ssjg
AkiSa I know what video you’re talking about. But that’s lowballing blue to its lowest while at the same time highballing ssj4 to its highest while giving ssj4 the benefit of the doubt many times. And even then it’s barely above blue
That’s one thing I liked about this fight, you got to see each forms drawback and strengths (ex: blue is stronger but requires more stamina, while blue is weaker but requires less stamina) I like how we got see strategy on both sides. About the blue vs ssj4, I like ssj4 better but I do realize it’s a weaker form. The animation in this fight was great.
Legendary Goku oh sorry I meant mastered blue. As we saw in the video it’s great for short battles but for longer ones, the stamina cost of it may make the user more tired
@Legendary Goku Mastered SSJB against Fused Zamasu was pretty bad. But in the Tournament of Power, Goku /and/ Vegeta managed to use the form without having such huge drawbacks. They're much more relaxed in it. If the current manga Goku fought GT Goku, he'd totally floor him. Especially using the Power Stressed version of MSSJB (basically he used the same principle of kaioken, sacrificing his body's wellbeing for more power)
Dashfire109 Gaming I'm tired of this popular rhetoric being constantly copied by people who don't know the facts, why SSJ4 weaker, most of the evidence says otherwise. Weak characters that are fodder to base GT Goku have all caught up to SSJB with almost no training, Trunks went from Dabura level to SSJB tier in a year just from a few 2 minute fights with black, and Gohan went from being weaker than Piccolo to SSJB tier in a frigging day! Meanwhile End of Z Goku is stronger than both of them prior to their boosts in his base form and trained for half a decade with a reborn kid buu and yet you're telling me that magically Trunks and Gohan who's SSJ forms at max power are fodder to end of Z Goku's base, and Gohan and Trunk's prep time and training quality are microscopic in comparison to End of Z Goku's are just magically stronger than an End of Z Goku after being infinitely stronger from the start, and having infinitely more training, and then 160x zenkai and god ritual boosts throughout all the arcs of GT, wile MAXIMIZED BY THE RIDICULOUSLY CRAZY 32,000X multiplier of SSJ4 are you people actually this insane????? My god despite this very obvious thing that shows that SSJ4 is not only stronger its completely on a different echelon of power just by the scaling and yes Omega said he can destroy a universe and all existence, I've done the research those are quotes from the sub of GT. But no one does reserach or even tries to think logically they just go with whatever series has the popularity. Theres no proof blue is stronger, period, its just popular rhetoric, that's why no one presents any, they just claim it is because you all copy each other, everyone thinks the same and doesn't think objectively and analytically, the hype around the word god, super bias, bandwagoning, not having any clue about GT scaling, all of this creates this ignorance, this started in 2013 people were assuming Beerus was stronger than any dragonball character in history with no facts, just because of the word god and the way the scenes make him seem so superior to everyone, its literally aesthetic. Honestly the collective intelligence in this fanbase is very very low.
@@hyperrunner8531 u want to know why ssjb is stronger then ssj4? Ssj4 goku at max power has feats that make him on par with ssjg from the b.o.g arc. Ssjb is basically an ssjg going ssj. We know ssj multiplys a saiyan's power by 50. So ssjb from *r.o.f* would be 50 times stronger then ssj4 goku. Now take the next THREE dbs arcs, and apply all of that training time to ssjb goku. This is ignoring kkx20, and perfected blue. About omega shenron, he was gonna destroy the universe *overtime* not instantly like u said. And omega shenron can't destroy all of exsistance, that was never stated.
Goku: SSJ1, Hair Spiked with Gold Tint with Gold Aura SSJ2, Spikier Hair with Electricity SSJ3, Longer Hair, and no Eyebrows SSJ4, Completely Different, Base Form with Longer and Wild Hair, Red Eye-Liner, Yellow Eyes, Looks like a Monkey with Red Fur, With a Tail SSG, Base Form with Red Hair, Different Pupils, Skinnier with Red Godly Aura SSB, SSJ with Blue Hair and Godly Aura SSB Kaioken, SSB but Goku with Red Skin and DOUBLE AURA Ultra Instinct (Omen), Base Form with Grey Pupils and Different Godly Aura that looks cool UItra Instinct, Everything like UI (Omen) but with Silver Hair
@@maxdrags3115 Calm yourself and put the katana down ya weeb, stop treating every observation (no matter how obvious) or mistake as a personal attack on your mother. Be glad he didn't say it was rainbow colored or something. Jesus Christ.
@@hyperrunner8531 I imagine GT is another Universe in itself or something. Xenoverse has a scene where the GT character appear to help Trunks, and if I remember Toriyama does have say in that game since it ties into his other story Dragon Ball Online which he wrote too.
But dbs goku has stronger forms so it is fair only thing that made gt goku win was his strategy and dbs goku almost cut gt gokus tail off so dbs goku got some smarts too
Yeah it did seem like goku started relying more on power than strategy when super started up not to mention goku did get a little bit cockier during super in my opinion hence rattling off to GT goku about obtaining the power of gods. I really wish Dragonball super would’ve went toward discovering the Saiyans power more then having help from an outside Ki source
If any of you were wondering. It was explained in GT that GT Goku base was as strong as his ssj3 transformation back when he fought the first main filler character in series. He stated that the guy he was fighting was as strong as Buu, although he didn't care to transform unless it was necessary.
i thought ssj4 was a transformation that drew out the user’s true potential and put the user at their peak. that’s why he turned into an adult when he was still a child. his ssj4 voice is deeper which means that goku’s peak would be much older than what he’s meant to be. in other words, ssj4 puts the user at their peak during all of time (whether in the future or past) so its not a limit breaker
Well I usually get the two mixed up. Super Saiyan 4 does draw out the users maximum potential and brings the user to their prime like you said. If Goku was at his late 70's(the age where Saiyan's start to age old) and he becomes Super Saiyan 4, I'm sure he would become a prime adult again. Although I think Ki drain would become more of a problem for aging warriors.
If GT had the same BS about training for a short while makes you equal gods, then GT Goku would destroy Super Goku (anime) easily. And I don't get why people make up their own sht about the power multiplier of ssg, ssgss and ssj4. None of these forms has a established multiplier. For all we know GT Goku could beat Beerus or whatever. Oh and ssg and ssj4 are awesome. Ssgss SUCKS!!
Part of the reason why Toyotaro and Toriyama have been moving away from Blue is because they know it's shit, hopefully we get something better later since the latest chapter of the manga alludes to something beyond SSB for both so I'm guessing that it's getting phased in the near future in favor of a combination of SSJ and UI for Goku and Hakai energy x SSJ for Vegeta.
I think GT Goku would win, since that guy's got 10 years of fighting experience on Super Goku. Not to mention that GT Goku is ACTUALLY smart, whereas Super Goku is an immature idiot. 18:18 Woah. . . ! GT Goku actually just . . . pulled a Bruce Lee . . . and did a 1-inch punch . . . that shattered the ribs on Super Goku's right side. 20:50 "You thought Super Saiyan 3 was all I could do. Assuming things about me is only going to get you killed." OOOOHHHH!!!! GT Goku is REALLY SMART!
It's because a sayian having its tail maximizes his/her true power with out extra energy meaning that's why base gt goku stood a chance agents ss2 super goku and not because of the 10 year age difference and also I have to say that in the Dragon Ball Z movie Battle of God's shenron said "Five pure hearted sayians merged (I don't know I can't fully remember) Into another " meaning that the total number of sayians was 6 also meaning that in gt all that they needed was vegeta. And that's why Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta had fails and faced gok u who didn't have a tail (cut off) and I think is why Broly can transform into the Legendary Super Sayian, or a Super Sayian with green oura* I think it's because of the tail. Vegeta did say that the Sayian tail can grow back and I'm still puzzled by why it didn't grow back yet?
That stupid fucking tail theory has no basis whatsoever, unless this is directly stated in the manga/anime or the daisenshiu’s that should not be applicable
This only applies with gt in dbz or dbs having tail only grants you access to being a great ape it does not maximize power or ki outside of gt... When will people learn tail theory only applies to gt 😂
![I CAN'T BELIEVE | Kaggy Reacts to [What-If] Xeno Vegito VS Gogeta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mmI-k79-k6w/mqdefault.jpg)
![I CAN'T BELIEVE | Kaggy Reacts to [What-If] Xeno Vegito VS Gogeta](/img/tr.png)
23:22 I've been wondering for forever why GT Goku was just trying to tank it. But then I realized that SSJ4 Goku could ABSORB energy attacks like we saw Goku do to Beerus's last energy ball as SSG. Since SSJ4 Goku did it against Baby.
He was literally using SSB Goku's power to go into the Full Power SSJ4 State right here. This man be smart as wack yo.
Bruh, I forgot about that ability but you're correct
Holy shit I was always wondering that myself, thank you so much for answering it!
That's some Galaxy Brain shit right there, Goku
@@spaceonisorceress4406 oh
That’s some big brain SHIET bro
I mean, we are talking to 10 years older Goku and his experince ottanks everything. And I mean EVERYTHING!!!
GT vs Super is basically Skills/Experience vs Transformations.
IKILLMASTER18 0
GT goku has a good base form so There’s a little chance he can’t use ssj4 power against ssj blue. Power level is almost the same if you look at their base form x Transformation
GT Goku trained with Uub for years with God ki and had the plot device the tail growing back, Super Goku still got ten years to build up that much stamina, it wasn't even fair if anything, it should have been GT Goku after Baby Vegeta saga was over.
GT Goku has far less, It would be a one shot k.o by Super Goku
@Nolan Akers dont worry Ss4 or GT are really not playing in Super goku league🤷🏾
Super goku has feats in the beginning of the series that surpasses even the feats of Ss4 gogeta🤷🏾
@Nolan Akers ssj4 is stronger than ssjg
The UI at the end was like a hint/glimpse of him unlocking omen in the tournament of power. Hence why he collapsed after he got back up.
No. He collapsed because he used perfected blue in the battle but was so reckless that he forgot the blue is a transformation that drains a lot of ki and stamina. (As seen in the battle with Zamasu that his arm was licking out steam that is his ki coming out by pure pressure the he couldn't contain it)
No stamina wouldn't make him walk only just stand for a moment while he fall by pure exhaustion and lost consciousness
(But I do like your idea and aftermath that is mindblowing)
@@spoodystk But his hair was standing up a little and there were sparkles around him. Ultra Instinct is basically your body moving on it's own without the mind and Super Goku(Manga) was unconscious so it's very likely he achieved Ultra Instinct for a moment but couldn't keep it due to his body being too worn out.
@@primalgod1813 yes I know about ultra instinct. But you must always remember that stamina is everything when it comes to battle and in life
Without stamina you wouldn't walk, without stamina you wouldn't run as fast, without stamina you wouldn't be awake and without stamina you wouldn't breathing calmly. Us human have energy and many being have energy that we always use when it comes to many thing like lifting a weight but later on you would get tired by just lifting 15 tines, that why many sport use many energy when it comes to basketball, football and so on.
GT Goku even stated it in the end of the video when he achieved ultra instinct that he was standing with pure determination but he lost too much stamina when using blue he couldn't stand for a couple of second.
Ultra Instinct is your body moving by itself without the using of the mind but you must understand that before ultra instinct he was using perfect blue that drains a lot of energy and stamina.
Blue can only be use twice a day stated by whis in the manga.
@@primalgod1813 I already know everything that say. All the community knows about ultra instinct
@@primalgod1813 Even if the body is moving unconsciously, it still needs energy to move. Goku barely had enough energy to keep himself breathing, let alone start dodging attacks at lightspeed.
“How is it that these fan animations get me more hyped for the shows half the time?!”
Because they’re made with 100% pure, unadulterated love from a fan. No corporate executives and deadlines here! 😁👍🏻
Ever since I first saw Super Saiyan 4 as a teen, it has been deemed my favorite SS form since then. When I first saw this vid, it made me exponentially proud to see SS4 in this kind of light.
Same!
_"You're a Saiyan trying to imitate a God"_
GT Goku had already won after saying this let's be honest.
Bruh
I hate it when people say that
Logically it would be considered a draw
However physically I think Super Goku won considering he was still standing when he went UI
Lets be honest he won when he went adult
IDK I know this is late, but by that logic GT Goku would still win. Super Goku stood up, but he was first identified unconscious. In standard tournament rules, a KO is still an elimination. Even though GT Goku was still on the ground, he was awake and still talking, not to mention still in Super Saiyan 4. It also could not be a draw because GT Goku was slowly rising, which would still declare him the victor.
There was another factor in play here that I think was overlooked:
When the Grand Priest made GT Goku an adult, Goku said he felt a lot stronger than he did before. If you'll recall, he couldn't stay in Super Sayian 3 as a kid during GT because he had trouble utilizing that much energy. As an adult, not only does that problem vanish, but he now has access to that energy as a baseline. This provides a (I feel) pretty sizable boost to his baseline power level, and it made all his forms a lot stronger.
Now, if DBS Goku grows back his tail somehow, it would likely make his regular Super Sayian transformations easier to maintain. But since SS God, Blue, and Ultra Instinct are using separate ki sources, I'm not sure it would affect those much, if at all. And since UI is something even gods can attain, I'm nearly certain the tail wouldn't affect it.
DatShadyGuy I feel like the tail would effect ultra instinct, at least a small amount. As in dragon ball, Goku losing his tail left him weaker, and might have sapped his stamina, and when he regrew it he got stronger as shown when he was trapped by the dragons gum. The tail might provide a slight stamina boost for ultra instinct, but I feel it might not effect the god forms too much since they use god ki and not normal energy.
It did mention in GT where Goku said that his small body can’t handle the power of Super Saiyan 3 for long, his older body was a lot more developed and resilient.
Ui isnt a form its a technique
@@BTbiscuit726 I don't think that the tail is as important as you say at least not in canon.
Vegeta who is a Sayian Prince and knows pretty much everything about the race and Oozaru form (he was able to gain full control over it) doesn't give a shit about his tail and not once does he try to get it back (and he could've used Dragon Balls).
Not to mention that hybrids born *without* tails are stated to be stronger than those born with tails.
Broly can use Oozaru power even without a tail.
Overall Toriyama seems to dislike tails and Oozaru and that's the reason why it never shows up again and why new Sayians don't even have tails.
Agreed 100%
17:46
Goku super: Is that all you got
Goku GT : Oh I have more than that !!!
Goku super : Regret!!! Regret!!!
TFS reference
@-Limit breaker tenkaichi SS4 fan- I can agree with this. Gt Goku has a better understanding of his techniques. Not to mention that he has a lot more stamina
Tfs? XD
I forgot Goku had a really foul mouth in the Manga 😅
Well thinge were toned down in the show while the manga kept things like blood and bad mouthing. Which is why the manga did much better in the Goku Black arc because the stakes felt high and it gave characters much more depth. Although the TOP arc was less than average for the manga
Manga super goku is surely cocky as hell like holy sh**, he led his guard down twice (toppo and gt goku if it counts). I mean it's fine if the mc is op, cocky and has a bad mouth but for a shounen character like manga super goku is an instant regret lmao
well lucky me i have the exact manga of what level he is in
@@Boomerbang2 this is why i like the series super goku better he isnt cocky and he is stronger than manga goku and doesnt have stamina problems like the manga maybe thats why he didnt use series goku and used manga goku
Goku shouldn’t have a foul mouth he’s to pure
SSJ4 would actually be a perfect form for shallot. He's a saiyan from the past, who still has his tail, so he still has his primal power.
@Daniel SC I think we might see his Oozaru transformation they might do it like how Vegeta in GT first transformed into an ape then SSJ4
@Daniel SC Did Vegeta's clothes break when transformed into Oozaru in GT can't remember ? his clothes might not break
@@shubhamsonsurkar3782 Maybe is a bit late to answer but anyway I'll say it, Vegeta's clothes break but at the moment he became Ssj4, he appear with his pants, gloves and boots again. I guess the transition of the Oozaru and the transformation generate clothing.
@@santiagobazan2698 I guess that will also happen with Shallot
You are very correct
I’m glad they really captured GT Goku intelligence. He is a teacher in GT, where as current canon Goku is a complete idiot who just chases forms
well i mean, the anime version is the idiot, this is the manga version
@@axolotlsworkbench6996 ik right they made the anime version super stupid
Yeah goku in super acts dumb
Thats just in general day to day life, give him a maths problem, he'll most likely be unable to do it. But in battle he is very intelligent, he's a saiyan.
Prime example of my point: 29:08
But don't get the wrong idea, I do not wish for conflict. While I do prefer Super to GT, I do still very much enjoy GT.
@@axolotlsworkbench6996 manga is early 2020. No one cares about what they do in manga. No one and I mean no one reads DragonBall manga
I keep thinking: "Stop hitting youself, stop hitting yourself."
I loved this fight for a few reasons. One, it showed some love to SSJ4, duh. But the main thing is how it was less a battle of speed and power and more about intellect. GT Goku has about two decades more fighting experience than Super Goku, even if he has less power, which he used to stand a chance against Super Goku who lacked suck strategy. It was a battle of experience and technique when it came down to it, even that teaser at the end where Super Goku went Ultra Instinct Omen, GT Goku was correct in that he was only standing out of determination, he didn't have any strength to keep going whatsoever.
Just how smart this fight was was brilliant
Fuck ssj4
And
Bullshit, you’re forgetting the healing factor that ssg has, even being able to transform into it when deathly injured and healing very quickly, even when goku is barely conscious So goku should have been able to heal and beat GT goku
I do not agree with this battle at all
Lord Jaraxxus when was it ever stated that ssg had a healing factor?
@@ThisToxicX this was just for the plot smh
@@ThisToxicX bro that was for plot convenience and was never talked about or used again
SsjG and ssj4 both have healing abilities but are forgotten about by the writers because both have only been seen/used once (super when he got stabbed by Beerus and GT when his eyes healed after Eis Shenron blinded them) BUT even if he does have more stamina than god and blue Goku, the power difference is too great for ssj4 Goku to even compete with super Goku. The God transformation increases his power from multi solar-system level or galaxy level(ssj3 power) to beyond universal. That itself puts him above omega Shenron(who could only destroy the universe by spreading his negative energy over MANY years as opposed to instantly in the 3 clashes with Beerus) to debatably a little above ssj4 Gogeta. GT Goku stands no chance in this fight after ssjg is unleashed, but everything else before hand is completely accurate.
Ok i get why people say GT isnt canon.
GOKU IS SO SMART! SMARTER THAN BEFORE! LOL HE USE HIS BRAINS !!
Well becoming a child seemed to finally give him the mental development he missed after growing up in a forest
@@wolfspider2034 Maybe thats why Super Goku is a bit on the lower scale. GT Goku had a chance to grow up in a stable environment, while Super Goku didn't get that chance.
That doesnt matter, even if GT Goku is smart his timeline doesnt really coexist with the main Super Timeline.
1. Because he became a child 2. Goku never talks about or uses ssj4 outside of gt 3. Pan was born later in super 4. Android 17 never talks about his super 17 form in dbz or dbs that's why it's not canon
Wait I read the comment wrong sorry
So it’s just super dragon ball heroes episode 1 but longer
And way better
Fusion Z fact
GedeonGods Gaming yes
And better
No xeno Goku is far stronger then just plain gt
No someone actually won.
If DBS Goku grew his tail back, his forms would be far less draining on him.
@DBLMadness Not really. When GT Goku's tail returned, he could use SS3 as long as he could in his adult body.
@@CaptainMezasu kid/adult body
For the regular transformations yes, but the god transformations aren’t natural, this making them more draining, it could help, but it would guarantee nothing.
@@calebcollins5887 I think it could balance out the huge amounts of ki goku harbors in his God forms
@@oxiclean8536 Oo yeah that could work too.
I'm just scrolling through the comments and I'm here to settle the debate BASED ON HYOURIN'S LOGIC (and from some research).
In the animation, DBS Goku from the manga is used. Although there was a panel while he was training with Whis of a silhouette of SSJGod behind him, it wasn't explicitly stated that he absorbed the god ki. This was also mentioned in the Archive section of the animation, as Goku didn't revert to SSJ in his fight against Beerus like he did in the anime. His base form and any of his regular SSJ transformations (SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3) are weaker than their anime counterparts after the fight with Beerus.
Also stated in the video, manga DBS Goku perfected SSJB. In the manga, SSJB was a transformation that offered more power and ki control at the cost of stamina. That is why Goku preferred using SSJGod in the manga, because it was a decent boost in strength and ki without the strain in stamina.
In the video, GT Goku was changed to an adult, which is why forms that were a struggle to maintain while he was a kid like SSJ3, was able to be used more effectively on top of having the tail which Elder Kai in the anime said was needed to help maintain the form. GT Goku in his base form was just as strong or even stronger than manga DBS Goku because he has trained with Uub for a decade or even longer since they were seen training in the HBTC. It's even implied in the anime that Base GT Goku as a kid was stronger than SSJ3 DBZ Goku when he was fighting Kid Buu.
As stated in the video, manga SSJB Goku was stronger than GT SSJ4 Goku at the cost of stamina. The reason SSJ4 won isn't because it was the stronger form, but the form with virtually zero drawbacks. As I mentioned earlier, DBS manga Goku prefers SSJGod over SSJB for this very reason, a longer power boost over a shorter and more powerful form.
I feel like the animator did his best not only on the research, but trying to tie everything and provide an explanation before and during the fight to avoid any inconsistencies. An amazing animation with superb fighting and clever storytelling.
But he forgot 1 single thing. The GT Perfect File stated that. When GT Goku got turned into a child, it was his STAMINA that was reduced, not power. So even when the Grand Minister turned GT Goku into an adult again. Hi base power would stay the same.
I’m glad that the animator used Manga Goku instead of Anime Goku, since the Anime version is a genius at fighting and can maintain Blue Kaioken for a long time in ToP
you're ignoring the fact that the manga follows the movie of Fukkatsu no F, in which base Goku easily takes care of Freeza, whom had just one-punched Gohan out of Super Saiyan (and Super Saiyan Gohan may be weaker than Mystic Gohan, but he's at least stronger than Piccolo, who himself should at least be stronger than Dabura/ Super Perfect Cell at this point)
João Calixto not necessarily, if you ain’t a Saiyan they side line you hard, piccolo is still weaker than cell probably. Also Gohan in resurrection F is without any training for a long time making him not even half as strong as mystic, heck he would probably be weaker than he was against cell.
@@calebcollins5887 no way in hell is Piccolo weaker than Cell. In the manga he fought well against Frost, losing only due to the poison, who is at least stronger than Freeza in his true form from RoF, as he pushes Goku into Super Saiyan. And Gohan being able to knock out Shisami with one punch after Piccolo struggled with him is enough argument to state that he is at least stronger than he was in early Boo Saga
to me, SS4 and SSblue are both amazing,
Frost/Frostbite The Hobidon CJ it’s ironic how GT had the best new transformation design and super did not.
Ssb is just a recolor ssg is a bit better but still just a dumb recolor
Yes
Same
@@therealgoat1603 ss blue and god are not transformations that's why. They are both goku switching to using god ki instead of his normal ki( which is enhanced with some good ki)
Basically it's like if goku was a facet cold water would be his natural ki. But turning that off and switching to hot water (his God ki) if you follow..
Lol all the salty comments about power levels and such, here I am just enjoying some fighting, because power levels are nonsensical at this point
Silverwind X true at this point both are god level beings in terms of power, even greater Goku, just cause Super is stronger GT Goku can still win fairly easily if he gets a few good hits in.
@@calebcollins5887 especially since GT goku can abdorb ki hits
Glad someone gets it.
@@calebcollins5887 well ssj4 has unlimited potential so...
Who cares about power levels? Super Goku may have the power and speed advantage, but GT Goku has the advantage in every other category: less stamina drain, skill, intelligence, etc.
Who else noticed that GT Goku absorbed the 4-star ball last. It may be nothing, but if it was, it was a nice touch. It goes back to early dragonball with him having his Grandpa's ball and Bulma inviting him to go on the journey.
And people ask me why I want SSJ4 goku and vegeta in fighterz. This, this is why.
My God I would love that.
Instead we got the base forms 😑
@@drift2557 my problem with it the game is called dragon ball fighterz not dragon ball fightersuper so GT can be I it hell it has dan dan kokoro hikareteku why not GT. Base forms are ok because they are iconic.
Man Baby better be it better be a dlc
You really want a fifth Goku (counting Goku Black)
(Spoiler Alert) At the end of the video, Manga Goku says if he wants to win the tournament of power he needs to do more than just rely on brute strength, and in the manga, master Roshi says the same thing to Goku and then goes on to fight Jiren and lose. Then Goku goes ultra instinct for the first time in the manga. I like how the ending HyourinJutsu has made correlates to the story in the manga and shows a slight possibility for goku to go ultra instinct before the ending credits,
Very good Allusion my friend!
and an excellent point of view
Was dissapointed that Super Goku lost, but when looking at it, it makes sense:
Argument No.1:
MSSJB (Mastered Super Saiyan Blue): Is a form beyond SSJB, and it was established and said in the manga that the SSJB transformation itself takes about 60% of one's Ki and Stamina. And then transforming into MSSJB, it's clear to say atleast 65% has been used up just for transformations. Then we have to calculate in SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJG and SSJB. In all forms he got a beating and used up a lot of energy, so by the times he goes MSSJB, it's easy to say he used ATLEAST 70% of his Ki and Stamina. (FYI: That's still being generous. It's been said that SSJ3 has insane stamina and ki consumption.)
Argument No.2:
MSSJB requires insane concentration, meanwhile SSJ4 doesn't. To maintain his godly state, Super Goku has to focus on controlling his KI like the Kaioken, meanwhile SSJ4 is primal and only has low energy consumption.
*Conclusion:*
GT Goku wins because of his immense Base Energy attained through training, skill through experience and the extra power from absorbing the black star dragon balls. His forms are also all mastered, increasing the individual multipliers to:
- SSJ: x50 [x70Mastered]
- SSJ2: x100 [X150Mastered]
- SSJ3: x400 [X450Mastered]
-SSJ4: x3,500,000,000 [No Mastery Achieved]
Also, the SSJ4 form, while still not being AS strong as SSJB Goku and MSSJB Goku, has a lesser KI and Stamina consumption along with a primal behaviour, not needing concentration.
Be reminded all multipliers are taken of my personal powerscale or were said so by the Toei staff themselves.
Nice comment 👍 looks like you put time into this
Ray Bladesmith
Excellent explanation very Well done
Insertnamehere yup. When i saw Dbs manga Goku, I wasn’t sure i f he would win agains gt goku
woah woah, how did 400 goes straight to 3,5 billion
It does make sense except I thought the video exaggerated manga gokus stamina drop a bit too much.
GT goku's tail was the reason why he doesnt drain a single ki when transforming.
Oh- it's you.
Also because he has better ki control
Let me explain what just happened... In the anime of Super, Goku fought Beerus in super sayian God but in the middle of the fight, he ran out of power, and went back to super sayian. While he was fighting, however, he still could keep up with Beerus, even without Super sayian god, because his body absorbed god ki, and it was much stronger than before. That state (absorbed god ki by Goku) is called Saiyan beyond god, or God essence... In the manga however, Goku never ran out of power with super saiyan god and never absorbed its power, and as a result he never had the state of God essence, meaning that his base form and super saiyan forms were as strong as before he became super saiyan god. That, along with the fact that GT Goku is older and could train much more than Super Goku is why GT Goku's Base, SSJ1, 2, and 3 forms were significantly stronger than Super (manga) Goku's. Now for the Ssj blue vs Ssj 4 part, Goku in the anime of super used Kaioken Blue which multiplies the power of blue, while in the manga, he never did that, and used Mastered Blue, a form which is more efficient and powerful than Casual Blue, but uses MUCH more stamina. It should even surpass Kaioken Blue in stamina usage... That is why he lost to GT Goku. If it was Goku from Super's anime, it would probably be Super Goku's win.
You know that makes more sense. I kinda followed the manga in and out and the anime the whole way. In this case that explains the differences well. Kaggy pin this comment to the top lol
GT Goku would defeat both versions of DBS Goku. Ultimate Gohan and Trunks reached SSJB tier almost effortlessly in ridiculously short spaces of time and they were both infinitely weaker than End of Z Goku who's base form alone is stornger than both of them before they got their boosts, and end of Z Goku's training of half a decade with a reborn kid buu is inifinitely more strength boosting than the microscopic level of prep Gohan and Trunks got in super to make them reach SSJB tier so by that alone just going off how easy Gohan and Trunks got to SSJB tier, GT Goku should be way above grand priest if Gohan and Trunks can reach SSJB with barely any training and in crazily short time, GT Goku's training and time training makes Gohan and Trunk's seem microscopic, and this actually shows in the fights
SSJB Goku struggles with Ultimate Gohan
GT (BASE) Goku toys with (SSJ) Ultimate Gohan,
(And keep in mind this was the weakest version of GT base Goku before he got 2 160x boosts in the next 2 arcs)
From everything I've analyzed the shocker is that GT Goku was stronger than DBS Goku all along, and not just stronger, but on a completely different echelon of power by virtue of scaling. And he doesn't even loose in the flawed feat argument either despite the ignorance of most fans who assume DBS Goku has to be stronger all because of the overhyped concept of universe busting, yet come with no evidence that GT Goku cannot universe bust and fail to realize the basic logic that feats are absolutely inconsistent with scaling like where SSJB Vegito uses his most powerful blast at max power to kill Zamasu and it only destroys a building wile Roshi and Piccolo easily destroy a moon with almost no effort, feats are just dramatic effect not serious power measurements, but despite the fact that feats are completely inadmissible there is proof of universe busting in GT as Omega Shenron claims that he can and I qoute" I am a god of destruction and I will utterly destroy the universe with my minus power and all that there is" so not only can he destroy the universe with his minus power but all that there is meaning whatevers outside the universe meaning multiverse if we want to go there, and to add more to this, Omega when using his minus power is in a state of zero effort, he is not even exerting any of his effort to destroy a universe, he doesn't put his actual power behind it, so he can destroy a universe just by standing there thinking about, what could he do if he actually put all his power into it? Super fans ignore all this and pretty much every ounce of evidence in GT and just say "I like SSJ4's design, but pretty sure Blue is stronger" with no facts whatsoever. Its a very naive fanbase tbh.
Nope, GT Goku would lose to both of them.
Stop being delusional.
@@maxdrags3115 why?
@@maxdrags3115
Your comment =baseless claim
My comment = detailed evidence and facts. Why should I listen to you? Lol.
I want super Saiyan 4 transformation for xenoverse 3, but then we need a tail option, maybe blue or 4 can have either dbs saiyans or gt saiyans
My God yes
Me too.
Rose Tailwolf YOU ARE THE SMARTEST PERSON IN EARTH
I agree 100%
@@isaacrosen304 XD better dig me up then
Ohhh please super saiyan 4 on shallot would be sick
YESSS
Dude you just made the best idea ever, I hope it comes to fruition
Considering there are 3 Pans in the game since the beginning of the game we may get a GT arc & it'll get us the SSJ4 Shallot.
He'll be a god
ShadowThunder1234 it would be cool if we can pick both
(GT : this is nowhere near my limit)
thaats when gt goku brings out ultra ssj4.
Then dbs goku goes Ultra Instinct Kaioken x100
And dies from the energy drain.
@@bribizlegaming6678 hand then he will die cuz kaoiken ;-;
Yo, this actually happen
I think it's the form that was dubbed Full Power Super Saiyan 4 which goku uses before fusing with Vegeta.
FIGHTING GOLD!
joshuaha12 I see you heard it too in the beginning
DEEP IN MY MEMORY VAULT!
@@Bluejay-jg6hz TRYING SOME APPRAISALS, STURDUST IN THE SKY!
@@somethingrandom3961 *MY SOUL SHINES!!!*
They see me rollin, they dying
When Gogeta comes out in fightetz
Me:Take all my money
In my opinion i like ssj4 a little bit more than blue but blue is stronger
I like blue better and i saw you on ndakauba's vid
mcBUFFfluff I grew up with GT so I’d favor ssj4 rather than ssjb
mcBUFFfluff I SEE YOU IN EVERY COMMENT SECTION
Ssj4 is way better than blue design wise blue is not even creative it's just blue Super Saiyan
mcBUFFfluff yea but dont forget that the super manga goku is weaker than the anime goku so if it was the anime version then super goku would have won but i like the ssj4 form better cause all blue is is super saiyan blue hair dye😂😂
16:58 If you listen closely you see that his laughter is time somewhat perfectly with each hit.
8:58 Goku didn’t stop at stealing techniques now is stealing catchphrases also 2019
Goku does not steal techniques. He only uses them, he doesn't calls them his own and that he created them.
@@justvic2003 it's a joke :/
It’s a shame the only technique he created himself, the Dragon Fist, is non canon.
@@thediamondphenom3174 Like fr, and it's such a cool move too >:[
Tbh if super goku had his tail then would he achieve ssjblue 4?
I mean if he can stack God Ki on SSJ and become SSJ Blue then he should be able to stack God Ki on SSJ4 and become SSJ 4 Blue
Mr. Broomstick I feel like he could, but it’d take like the entire series
no, he would not:
1) he would need to become oozaru gold first and then gain self control; Super Goku is too brainless to do such a thing.
2) SSJ4 is described as the pinnacle of a saiyan power, a form that unlock his full potential, so, even if he has god ki, he would stay in SSj4 form, because God ki would be already used in that form.
NAnI
At most, ssj4 would probably just further increase his power beyond his limits, but no change in form
Oh, so THATS how Goku turned back into an adult at the end of GT
Lu1z 4 3v3r And the voices no
You're slo
You peeps replying really didn't have a sense of humor a year ago eh
I just realized how cool adult Goku looks with a tail.
I like how emotional he gets, because I totally get what he felt hahah. The faces he made were also funny.
I got off the hub for this
Someone Gaming that was a good choice
Ayyyy
It was pretty good corn huh
No nut November today
It's no nut November
"I can freely rewind time backwards" . . . So you mean make time go forward?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAAAAAA!!! This made my day! Thanks!
Bruh this is such an underrated comment
This makes sense
GT Goku has experience and a higher intellect fighting wise. Super just hands out power levels like its nothing i mean look at Kefla handling SSGSS. Super is nonsense when it comes to scaling so yeah
Now it makes a little more sense, I mean, Kale is the LSSJ from U6 and Kefla is a Potara Fusion with her in it, Kefla defeated the SSJB, right? Then, now, we have Broly who wins against two SSJBs in his SSJ form, and Gogeta in SSJ kicked his ass, even as the Green SSJ (SSJFP or LSSJ) in Blue.
With the movie:
Gogeta SSJ>Broly SSJ>Goku and Vegeta SSJB, so Kefla SSJ should win against a Goku SSJB, I mean Broly must be stronger than Kale, but Kefla should be near him in Power level, a fusion is leagues above the individual fused ones, at least that's my opinion
You're right but still super has the worst power scaling in all of db
PowerJolt72 we are talking about the manga not super
The manga is much better at scaling, they even put Gohan equal to Kelfa, which answers how strong Gohan could be at his best. Also the tournament of power isn’t as drawn out, which has its drawbacks but was still a good fight
PowerJolt72 Kefla handling blue Goku? Nah not really. Goku was heavily fatigued when he fought Kefla and he still managed to land some good hits. Full power Ssb Goku would’ve won.
Goku getting ultra instinct this way (fighting GT Goku) is way better than how he got it in the manga
Bruh if they made a DBZ game that worked and looked like this....Just take all money now I clearly don't need it.
Hyper dbz is high detail clever references sprite work PC game, go check it out and support it.
those sprites were ripped and edited from extreme butoden, so you can check the "looks like" part.
@@zoge9 Woohoo!
Keep this in mind even doe it’s not cannon we actually don’t know gt goku’s true power sense him being a kid lowered his power so ssj4 could be way stronger than god
wow thats actually true
Your correct but when we think about it though, gt goku and his ssj4 wasnt really affected by his kid form considering he was able to use instant transmission and has the strength of his adult form
To be honest GT Goku as an Adult has WAY more stamina and coupled with his tail it increases his control by a significant amount. Not to mention his Base form was definitely the right strength here. In the end Blue Goku is definitely stronger but this seemed legit. If you're really angry about it make it that absorbing the dragon have him extra strength.
@@jibrael5705 I believe they used Manga Goku because he didn't absorb God Ki like anime Goku did, which gave him a massive power boost in his base form. So I'm guessing Hyro Used Manga Goku so it will be fair to Gt Goku. Great fight nonetheless
...Figured SSJ4 Goku would win...but didn't expect him to get pushed as far as he did.
To be fair the fact why Super Manga Gokus Base Form and SSJ 1-3 was so weak compared to GT Gokus first 3 Transformation is because in the Manga Goku didnt absorbed the SSJGod Power into his Base form like in the Anime. Super Anime Goku would probably destroy GT Goku with his SSJ Blue. The Stamina would be no problem seeing as Anime Goku completely masterd Kaioken over Blue with mostly no Energy Loosing
that s what hyourinjutsu said, but still, nice
I'm sorry but didn't base manga goku train with literal gods and angels while GT goku only fought multi-galaxy level villians at best?
@@jordanb9078 gt goku trained nonstop since the end of z (plus a lot of extra time in the hyperbolic time chamber). That's more than 10 years of straight training, compared to super who trained for like what? A month? Then didn't train again for a few months? Super goku had way to many breaks compared to gt. There's no mistaking that in terms of base form, GT completely and utterly destroys super
I'am Sorry That Is Dumb headcanon. There is no indication that Manga Goku is weaker.
Many disregard the Fact that Whiss Trained Goku and Vegeta. Also Many Failed to notice the image of SS God Behind Goki when he spared With Whiss
@@vaquishersManga Goku didn't initially absorb SSG into his base but he's shown the power(indicated by the silhouette of SSG behind him in one panel.)
Gt goku is savage.
GT Goku has 10 more years of experience on Super Goku...
OF COURSE GT GOKU IS SAVAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aaaa if only he went through the shit dbs goku did he’d be op as faq
Goku: but your noncanon. Gt goku: you better take that back. Goku:... noncanon. Gt goku: (RAGE)
@@amajikikun6002 goku:turn MUI gtgoku:oh hell naw
@@hypernovaxd8586 before top
I also watched the animation loved it
I don't exactly want to say that this is how it should be, but this ending rings home everything Dragonball was supposed to stand for. All the power in the world means jack if you can't hold on to it and in a battle of attrition, it's skill and conservation that will win.
In the manga he lost 6:03
This guy single handed me to do animations
Top tier👌
☻
The manga fight between goku and toppo got cut short when they started getting serious by the grand priest
This comment of yours was about a year ago, but I think you mixed up the manga with the anime here. The grand priest interrupted in the anime, while the manga had the whole fight.
"I am nowhere near my limit" True,look at Goku vs Super 17,there is a boost for super saiyan 4,the aura becomes red and his powers has a x10 boost
Goku took a page out of Madara ‘s book and use limbo clones
This feels just like the time I fought my brother in xenoverse to while I was using base Goku and my brother using Gt base Goku
What if...
Shallot got super Saiyan 2 during cell arc
Super saiyan 3 during the buu arc
Super saiyan 4 During a unspecified chapter(because pan is in the game and her arc shows GT Trunks and goku)
God during Beerus and blue during Golden Frieza
Ultra instinct and ssjbe would be over kill
JTGL it’s funny becauze you guessed the first two
Yea
Lol I loved your reaction after Grand Priest turned GT Goku into an adult.
"listens to fighting gold in the beginning"
I gIoRnO gIoVaNnA hAvE a DrEaM!
My headcannon for SSJ4 Gogeta from now on is that he is an Imperfect Super Saiyan God
TheBloperM SSJ4 GOGETA = SUPER SAIYAN DEMIGOD
Your headcannon is heavily flawed, GT Goku did not do the ritual correctly, therefore, Gogeta is not a Super Saiyan God, the red hair could be a possible mistake made on Toei's end.
@@saryavt that is why it's called a headcanon,you shouldn't need to correct him.
@@saryavt One of the producers for Dragon Ball GT simply stated in an interview that they colored SSJ4 Gogeta's hair red simply because it "looked strong." There weren't any mistakes (or logic for that matter) that occurred.
E X T R A T H I C C “Incomplete”. It’s mentioned by GT Goku here that people could still feel his energy and he dismisses it, but I like the idea of Gogeta’s red hair kind of being an effect of the five Saiyan powers coming together, but improperly. He got the red hair and maybe a bit of a power boost, but he never achieved godly status.
Basically it was kinda like what happened to Goku when they didn’t have enough Saiyans, but flashier. Seems like a solid enough head canon to me.
SS4 and GT is my life! I still like Super (manga) a million times more than Super (anime) but GT is above em all for me!
Hamtaro I completely agree childhood memories are the best
I'm not here to argue but roshi vs jiren
I love GT more than super as well
Gt is my canon. Not super
I think both gt and super get to much hate like gt the first arc is pretty boring kid goku and what they did to vegeta but in super people look for things to hate like watch the movies of the first 2 super arcs like the goku black arc ending sure but but saying it sucks because trunks has different color or colour IDC which. its stupid or goku has so much plot armour or armor again IDC which but when he gets ssj OK but he hasn't beaten a single main enemy in super but plot armour or armor
HolYShITIsTHAtajoJoReFReNCe????
0:00
You realize the amount of zenkai boosts he got in 10 years...
that intro song is
*FIGHTING GOLD!!!*
Man I’m glad I’m starting to watch your videos again
The last attack was the head butt of the doom! XD
The battle between super saiyan 4 and super saiyan blue is always so intense.
Ssjb is the form where it's about their emotions
Ssj4 is the form where it connects to their origin as sayians
*SSJ4 Goku is badass*
7:08 damn he said alright like goku said it
Gt Goku: wins
Super Goku: proceeds to go ultra instinct anyway
I was waiting for ultra instinct like...”WHY AM I STILL HERE”
One thing I love about this is that when Goku first turns Blue against Three, he says "Ten percent would be overkill" and Super Saiyan 4 is a 10x multiplier. Just some great attention to detail.
10x multiplier from base or ssj3?
@@ziggiey
none theres no stated multiplier of ssj4
4:34 that voice crack hit me so hard it flung me across the whole room xDDDD
Bru that bit of fighting gold at the start made me very h a p p y
Jiren and Broly wouldn’t have stood a chance if Super Goku had his tail..
xJoeru the tail isn’t fucking that op buddy
I would estimate it to like a x10 powerboost
That stupid fucking tail theory has no basis whatsoever, unless this is directly stated in the manga/anime or the daisenshiu’s that should not be applicable
Actually in manga goku got a pretty noticeable power up in his first world tournament when his tail grew back. I'd say about twice as strong. Don't know how it would affect endurance though.
I haven't seen GT yet, but I am going to soon, however I do like the designs for different forms of Goku and even his base form from GT more than other series/canons.
Wild Onion Cannon 😂😍
If he absorbs the dragon balls that means he can come back to life over and over and over
We didn’t know how to react to this until now
Not Sure If This Is What You Mean But Yes, Time-Lines And Time-Travel Affects Everything In A Multiversal Scale, That Is How There Are Multiple Zamasu And Multiple Zeno-Sama Even If Said Time Travel Was Made IN Universe 7 (By Trunks) But Still Affected Universe 12 (Zamazu's Universe) And Also Zeno (In His Own "Palace/Realm" Outside Of Any Universe)
I think Shallot should be able to use both blue and four but each give different stat boosts that way he gets the best of both worlds
Yeah i was always thinking..."well super doesnt have a tail and gt does so yeah gt has more control over his power but super has way more powerful transformations so it is down to who is better strategist"
23:40 he has ascended ssj4 (the one he got from goten Gohan trunks and pan)
I'm back after watching the Hyourinjutsu's new animation and I now eagerly await Kaggy's reaction to it.
I love GT too and the reason why GT Goku is so strong when he defeated omega shenron he train with uub and shenron for I think 40 or 50 or 60 years.
He is not strong against Super Goku🤣
10 years. GT takes place ten years after the final episode of Z, where goku flies off with uub
John Zhou don’t bother they probs have little to no understanding of what happened in GT
@@bradznkw shut up salty super fan
Uh no he trained 10 years lmao.
This is basically SKILL vs FORMS,GT GOKU in base is much stronger than DBS Goku and thats a fact,only thing makes dbs goku strong are his forms CHANGE MY MIND
Okay. even if GT ssj4 Goku does have more stamina than god and blue Goku, the power difference is too great for ssj4 Goku to even compete with super Goku. The God transformation increases his power from multi solar-system level or galaxy level(ssj3 power) to beyond universal. That itself puts him above omega Shenron(who could only destroy the universe by spreading his negative energy over MANY years as opposed to instantly in the 3 clashes with Beerus) to debatably a little above ssj4 Gogeta. GT Goku stands no chance in this fight after ssjg is unleashed, but everything else before hand is completely accurate.
@@hotrodthe1 even tho my favorite form is ssj4 someone did a 30min video on how much stronger u get in the ssj4 state,its stated that the form is stronger then god when you are lowballing it,on a highball ssj4 is nothing compares to even ssjg
AkiSa I know what video you’re talking about. But that’s lowballing blue to its lowest while at the same time highballing ssj4 to its highest while giving ssj4 the benefit of the doubt many times. And even then it’s barely above blue
Yes gt base goku is much stronger than dbs goku
@@연개소문-y8y manga goku yes, anime goku, not even close
You could tell GT Goku would win because Super Goku never got the power buff from SSJG unlike the anime version
Why was this so emotional for me
That’s one thing I liked about this fight, you got to see each forms drawback and strengths (ex: blue is stronger but requires more stamina, while blue is weaker but requires less stamina) I like how we got see strategy on both sides. About the blue vs ssj4, I like ssj4 better but I do realize it’s a weaker form. The animation in this fight was great.
Legendary Goku oh sorry I meant mastered blue. As we saw in the video it’s great for short battles but for longer ones, the stamina cost of it may make the user more tired
@Legendary Goku Mastered SSJB against Fused Zamasu was pretty bad. But in the Tournament of Power, Goku /and/ Vegeta managed to use the form without having such huge drawbacks. They're much more relaxed in it. If the current manga Goku fought GT Goku, he'd totally floor him. Especially using the Power Stressed version of MSSJB (basically he used the same principle of kaioken, sacrificing his body's wellbeing for more power)
Dashfire109 Gaming I'm tired of this popular rhetoric being constantly copied by people who don't know the facts, why SSJ4 weaker, most of the evidence says otherwise.
Weak characters that are fodder to base GT Goku have all caught up to SSJB with almost no training, Trunks went from Dabura level to SSJB tier in a year just from a few 2 minute fights with black, and Gohan went from being weaker than Piccolo to SSJB tier in a frigging day! Meanwhile End of Z Goku is stronger than both of them prior to their boosts in his base form and trained for half a decade with a reborn kid buu and yet you're telling me that magically Trunks and Gohan who's SSJ forms at max power are fodder to end of Z Goku's base, and Gohan and Trunk's prep time and training quality are microscopic in comparison to End of Z Goku's are just magically stronger than an End of Z Goku after being infinitely stronger from the start, and having infinitely more training, and then 160x zenkai and god ritual boosts throughout all the arcs of GT, wile MAXIMIZED BY THE RIDICULOUSLY CRAZY 32,000X multiplier of SSJ4 are you people actually this insane????? My god despite this very obvious thing that shows that SSJ4 is not only stronger its completely on a different echelon of power just by the scaling and yes Omega said he can destroy a universe and all existence, I've done the research those are quotes from the sub of GT. But no one does reserach or even tries to think logically they just go with whatever series has the popularity.
Theres no proof blue is stronger, period, its just popular rhetoric, that's why no one presents any, they just claim it is because you all copy each other, everyone thinks the same and doesn't think objectively and analytically, the hype around the word god, super bias, bandwagoning, not having any clue about GT scaling, all of this creates this ignorance, this started in 2013 people were assuming Beerus was stronger than any dragonball character in history with no facts, just because of the word god and the way the scenes make him seem so superior to everyone, its literally aesthetic. Honestly the collective intelligence in this fanbase is very very low.
The reason why fodder characters like 17 and gohan is because he doesn't go all out if he went all out he could have killed them
@@hyperrunner8531 u want to know why ssjb is stronger then ssj4?
Ssj4 goku at max power has feats that make him on par with ssjg from the b.o.g arc.
Ssjb is basically an ssjg going ssj.
We know ssj multiplys a saiyan's power by 50.
So ssjb from *r.o.f* would be 50 times stronger then ssj4 goku.
Now take the next THREE dbs arcs, and apply all of that training time to ssjb goku.
This is ignoring kkx20, and perfected blue.
About omega shenron, he was gonna destroy the universe *overtime* not instantly like u said.
And omega shenron can't destroy all of exsistance, that was never stated.
Goku will win
Spoilers dude....
Good point
No. Goku will win
@@ruttsuco.804 NO! Toppo-Senpai-Desu-Ka won.
HAHAHAHA! ya all forgot KAKAROT! He's gonna win this 100% true 😎
Tbh ss4 has a better design than blue for blue they just took ssj hair and turned it blue
No crap they did you moron, that's the whole point.
It's a stupid point
Goku:
SSJ1, Hair Spiked with Gold Tint with Gold Aura
SSJ2, Spikier Hair with Electricity
SSJ3, Longer Hair, and no Eyebrows
SSJ4, Completely Different, Base Form with Longer and Wild Hair, Red Eye-Liner, Yellow Eyes, Looks like a Monkey with Red Fur, With a Tail
SSG, Base Form with Red Hair, Different Pupils, Skinnier with Red Godly Aura
SSB, SSJ with Blue Hair and Godly Aura
SSB Kaioken, SSB but Goku with Red Skin and DOUBLE AURA
Ultra Instinct (Omen), Base Form with Grey Pupils and Different Godly Aura that looks cool
UItra Instinct, Everything like UI (Omen) but with Silver Hair
@@PintoBeans9637 SILVER HAIR, NOT WHITE.
@@maxdrags3115 Calm yourself and put the katana down ya weeb, stop treating every observation (no matter how obvious) or mistake as a personal attack on your mother. Be glad he didn't say it was rainbow colored or something. Jesus Christ.
I love how you made your Merch Plug with Fighting Gold's music.
super needs to bring ssj4 back
Yo I agree with you so much man
Super never even had SSJ4....GT and Super are two different timelines....
@@pumpactioncrusader6035
I think he wanted to say DB series as a whole.
@@pumpactioncrusader6035 Based on what? There's no conformation of that whatsoever, gosh this fanbase just makes things up and everyone copies.
@@hyperrunner8531 I imagine GT is another Universe in itself or something. Xenoverse has a scene where the GT character appear to help Trunks, and if I remember Toriyama does have say in that game since it ties into his other story Dragon Ball Online which he wrote too.
Who else thinks this aint thar fair XD
1. GT goku has 10 years of training for him
2. He is 1 with the dragon
3. And... He has a tail!!!!!
But dbs goku has stronger forms so it is fair only thing that made gt goku win was his strategy and dbs goku almost cut gt gokus tail off so dbs goku got some smarts too
But if u think it isnt fair remember it is a fan animation dont question it too much lol
Super Fans Be Like
GT Goku Served A Handicap Without The 3 Reasons You've Listed.
Those Are GT Goku's Natural Traits. You Can't Just Take Them Away, Super Fan.
Yeah it did seem like goku started relying more on power than strategy when super started up not to mention goku did get a little bit cockier during super in my opinion hence rattling off to GT goku about obtaining the power of gods. I really wish Dragonball super would’ve went toward discovering the Saiyans power more then having help from an outside Ki source
If any of you were wondering. It was explained in GT that GT Goku base was as strong as his ssj3 transformation back when he fought the first main filler character in series. He stated that the guy he was fighting was as strong as Buu, although he didn't care to transform unless it was necessary.
Also, this is Manga Goku. He never absorbed God to base. If it was anime one, he would probably destroy him in Ssj.
Super Saiyan 4 is a limit-breaker instead of a multiplyer. This form also lacks any major drawbacks.
Ssj4 vs blue is quite the transformation war.
i thought ssj4 was a transformation that drew out the user’s true potential and put the user at their peak. that’s why he turned into an adult when he was still a child. his ssj4 voice is deeper which means that goku’s peak would be much older than what he’s meant to be. in other words, ssj4 puts the user at their peak during all of time (whether in the future or past) so its not a limit breaker
Well I usually get the two mixed up.
Super Saiyan 4 does draw out the users maximum potential and brings the user to their prime like you said.
If Goku was at his late 70's(the age where Saiyan's start to age old) and he becomes Super Saiyan 4,
I'm sure he would become a prime adult again.
Although I think Ki drain would become more of a problem for aging warriors.
Matt Modzelesky probably haha. they’re technically messing with their body’s time after all
gt goku does anything
kaggy: THAT'S AMAZING
If GT had the same BS about training for a short while makes you equal gods, then GT Goku would destroy Super Goku (anime) easily.
And I don't get why people make up their own sht about the power multiplier of ssg, ssgss and ssj4. None of these forms has a established multiplier. For all we know GT Goku could beat Beerus or whatever.
Oh and ssg and ssj4 are awesome. Ssgss SUCKS!!
If you think that ssj4 goku could beat beerus with a few days of godly training then your so wrong
Hater ssj blue lol
@@lanha2988 ssj blue is a bootleg version of the ssj transformation
Part of the reason why Toyotaro and Toriyama have been moving away from Blue is because they know it's shit, hopefully we get something better later since the latest chapter of the manga alludes to something beyond SSB for both so I'm guessing that it's getting phased in the near future in favor of a combination of SSJ and UI for Goku and Hakai energy x SSJ for Vegeta.
I think GT Goku would win, since that guy's got 10 years of fighting experience on Super Goku. Not to mention that GT Goku is ACTUALLY smart, whereas Super Goku is an immature idiot.
18:18 Woah. . . ! GT Goku actually just . . . pulled a Bruce Lee . . . and did a 1-inch punch . . . that shattered the ribs on Super Goku's right side.
20:50 "You thought Super Saiyan 3 was all I could do. Assuming things about me is only going to get you killed." OOOOHHHH!!!! GT Goku is REALLY SMART!
It's because a sayian having its tail maximizes his/her true power with out extra energy meaning that's why base gt goku stood a chance agents ss2 super goku and not because of the 10 year age difference and also I have to say that in the Dragon Ball Z movie Battle of God's shenron said "Five pure hearted sayians merged (I don't know I can't fully remember) Into another " meaning that the total number of sayians was 6 also meaning that in gt all that they needed was vegeta. And that's why Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta had fails and faced gok u who didn't have a tail (cut off) and I think is why Broly can transform into the Legendary Super Sayian, or a Super Sayian with green oura* I think it's because of the tail. Vegeta did say that the Sayian tail can grow back and I'm still puzzled by why it didn't grow back yet?
Too old,only ages on saiyan saga gohan can regrow the tail
That stupid fucking tail theory has no basis whatsoever, unless this is directly stated in the manga/anime or the daisenshiu’s that should not be applicable
This only applies with gt in dbz or dbs having tail only grants you access to being a great ape it does not maximize power or ki outside of gt... When will people learn tail theory only applies to gt 😂