This Has Never Happened Before | Inside The Tape with Ben Cathro
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2024
- Heavy rain has fallen on the fresh track in Loudenvielle, resulting in a controversial decision by the race organisers.
Supported by 👉 Trailforks Pro: b.link/v63weq
Get unlimited access to all the best mountain biking trails by clicking the link above.
Pinkbike Merch - pinkbike.link/...
Subscribe for more content from the pulse of mountain biking.
Website - pinkbike.com
Podcast - pinkbike.link/...
Instagram - / pinkbike
Facebook - / pinkbikecom
Balanced and articulate essay Ben. Superb journalism.
So valuable to have Ben's insights in these matters. Great video guys.
Perfectly balanced and logical reporting as usual Ben. I'm in the safety first camp. Watching the marshal trying help the rider off the course in your video was a good illustration. Now lets imagine a race run and a proper injury. Trying to stretcher a spinal out when no one can even stand would be chaos. Yes, they should consult the riders. Yes it sucks. But so does recovering from a huge injury. Hope fully we can see some elites sending it tomorrw!
this is ridiculous they are crashing at 2 miles per hour, and this has NEVER BEEN an issue before even with winds they were able to heli lift Cami last week and dont even get me started on Brook Mcdonald at MSA. the risk to reward factor is minimal, THIS IS NOT A SAFETY ISSUE, THEY DONT WANT THE SPORT TO LOOK AMATEUR ON A BROADCAST WITH FOLKS TUMBLING LEFT AND RIGHT if you REALLY think this is about safety why would this same organization choose to go to Mont Saint Anne in October not once but two years in a row.... get fucked Chris Ball
Totally, if I remember correctly, when Brook McDonald had his injury there was a colossal amount of time and logistical issues trying to get him off the hill. That’s a prime example of why the riders safety should be considered. It’s easy to say let them ride as Ben says, but the issue is those people aren’t responsible for anything.
Thanks for the level headed commentary. I’m also in the camp of not canceling a race but now I kind of understand why they did it.
I think with the fact they are still kids it was the right call. The pro's however send them down lol
Ultimately, for the organisers, they were damned (by some) if they didn't cancel, and damned (by others) if they did. So a lovely lose lose position to be in.
If the pro rider crash 3 times at first trying, they would learn and crash less at the next try. Also if they crash and do not injure, why canelling.
If the rain only made the track as difficult as it was; run the race. As the conditions interfered with emergency support getting up the mountain, it was the right call
Great content as usual Ben 🤟. Give us a like, if you think the privateer should be given the chance to race 👍
Great story Ben is the best
Supporting riders and the love of the sport
10:39 The start of this is good advice for pretty much every subject deemed newsworthy these days. The rest is very a sensible and measured account of the decision made about the junior race. Well said Ben
Ben, this is completely some of your best commentary ever…and some of the best commentary I have ever heard.
Pink Bike, UCI, Cycling World, Cathro is the best there is, right up there with Rob & Cam (though each with their own specialties).
I would say fast, rocky, windy Andora was way more dangerous than sliding down in the mud at slow speeds.
I blame the course designers for not building a track that can handle the normal weather for the time of year they are racing.
No. Please see the long history of UCI World Cup DH races happening in the mud at relatively slow speeds.
It's not NASCAR, bub.
Many of these juniors set their own difficulties by insisting on riding clipped in and tripod-"riding".
This is like a god-darned Trophy for Everyone nonsense.
Things are hard. Racing is hard. Conditions are hard sometimes. Good racers adapt.
Neurotics whinge and ask for cancellation.
Discovery is making DH into crap. NASCAR crap.
So what if people crash? BFD. That's how mud rides!
Why blaming? If they only can write on pavement, they should not be called elite.
Great work Ben 👍 I do not follow DH WC anymore since the changes. But i sometimes can not resist to get a bit of information. Main reason is your good journalism and the fun to watch you
Thank you so much for the reflected final statement in the heated debate about the cancelation!
Ur respect for the underdog is somethin society needs more of ❤❤❤
There should be rider meetings with organisers just like F1 do before race weekends
Fantastic video and summary Ben 👌
Well done ! I could listen to Ben explain anything I think!
Totally agree Ben - it’s about a consistent protocol to gather info and then communicating well. You’ll never please everyone, but they will know where they stand.
I’m definitely not a fan of cancelling, but do understand the argument for doing so. Watching the best junior riders slide down like amateurs, does make you wonder about whether it should go ahead or not. I think the takeaway here is that how tracks ride in the wet should perhaps be a serious consideration before granting rights to host. 🤷🏼♂️
Ben winning streak as best WC journalist continues, superb.
2:36 just such a sick framing, too. love it
Communication from the organisers is woefully lacking and from what Wyn was saying on Lucas’ video this afternoon why all the secrecy surrounding the little communication that does happen. 100% they need a body of riders for each category to be representatives. Some were on spikes, but most in that video were on the first run on dry tyres. Riders reps could have saved this race. It needs to be about communication and cooperation. Compromises could have been made to save this race. The rain was yesterday, there was time to get bodies on the hill at first light to dig in some benches and ruts. Steep section had a way around, tape that route in. Then inform teams with juniors that spikes are compulsory and strongly advised flat pedals, everyone works to an emergency schedule, 1 compulsory practise run on spikes, course closed for 30 mins whilst workers dig in some more ruts, 1 more compulsory practise run, then whoever wants to go racing can go racing.
Ben Cathro for President of Everything 🙌🙌
En till underbar video. Skönt att du bjuder på dig själv så där Alex!
I like the way you think! Level headed conversation and you presented a discussion from both sides! No right answer, no wrong answer. The people who were responsible for the event did what they thought was correct. Race is over for this group, time to start thinking about the next race !
They did what their neuroses and Participiation Trophy POV and Dumb-Down-DH POV told them to do: it's not the right BLINDING SPEED spectacle if it's muddy, it's not like NASCAR, so CANCEL it.
It's easy to make it safer to ride in the mud: flat pedals, and go slower than you think you "deserve" to go. Gentle movements.
Look at Jack Moir's video from today. Some riders managed. It's the jealousy of those who can't manage that makes the organizers buckle like this. Friggin' participation trophies.
Great video guys. Excellent commentary and thoughts on cancelling.
Ben thanks for adding gradient to the b&w! :)
Takeshis castle vibes on the crashing segment
Thanks for that well put speech, great perceptive, cheer Ben
Excellently presented and explained.
At first, i was like: what!? For a muddy track!?
Then i saw the video posted in the vital mtb forum and was like: ah, yeah - now i understand!
But i guess they didn't want to sacrifice a semi for the junior race.
So, i am overall, in the place now that i would say: scrap semis, let 40 riders qualify and have room to move juniors a day, if needed.
That sounds good! Or let 60 qualify and just broadcast the top 30 so it still fits the same TV slot. I think this race being canceled was mostly because they knew it would overrun due to being so slow and would therefore overrun their TV slot.
Great reporting!
The audacity of Studio Ben taking credit for Trackside Ben’s video is astounding!!
so many riders practice in these exact conditions. Christ, it’s not like there is a danger of avalnches
Damn, can there be a privateer award to get him to the next race?
@wynmasters
My personal view is that if the medics, marshalls, and support staff cannot get to and properly recover an injured rider due to the conditions, then you almost have no choice but to call it off. If however it was bad conditions, but medical staff could still help riders who injure themselves then it should still go ahead. It's less about them riding in bad conditions, and more being sure you can provide the proper duty of care should something bad happen.
RIP downhill mountain biking😢
Well done Ben!
I’m furious! How dare they cancel a race which I could barely ride( let alone race) in the dry, when it is a human mud slide. Ridiculous that they would consider the future of the sport.
Who would build a track that couldn’t handle rain in an Alpine area? Bizarre
Learning from you, Bro! Thanks, for the good video!
at this point i think we could Crowdfund a better DH worldcup Series with Pinkbike as the organizors and 100% public funding
What a great vids, as always
Thanks Ben for these explanations perfectly clear. Ben, President of the UCI !
To be fair I don't think anyone thinks discovery/ESO is TRYING to ruin downhill, I'm sure their trying to do quite to opposite, it's just that it's not working and they ARE ruining downhill. The only ones keeping it alive are people like you guys, this excellent video is testament to that!
It’s also only on its fifth races. Quality takes time. And people expected them to be perfect on the first broadcast. I’m assuming they will get better. I believe their coverage is way better (for the top riders) but the commentary is brutal. I think as times goes on and they evaluate their coverage and performance. Things will get better.
@@unclerick09 That's all well and good but they had a perfect template going all the way back to the early 90's to work from and they ignored basically all of it and changed everything. It's all the changes they made that everyone's angry about, I cant agree with you on the coverage, I don't think it's anywhere near as good as redbull, freecaster or eurosport. But I agree with you on the commentary, it really blows, not hiring Warner was def one of the biggest mistakes they made. Remember when redbull took over from freecaster? they did change the image of the sport (and not for the better imo but that's just personal preference) but they did it gradually over about 8 years, these knobs have taken over and turned it on it's head in the first year, not sure how they thought that was ever going to work but anyway I hope your right and they do fix it eventually.
@@-TheRealChris I have an issue with not getting to worked up and I actually don’t mind the races(when they happen) and their coverage. I am assuming Rob is under contract with Redbull exclusively. Would be cool if they could do a collaboration between Redbull and Discovery. I am hopeful this will all get better and in my opinion, it will. Time will tell. Either way, I am enjoying the races regardless of the provider.
They don't care about the sport one bit. Not to say they're trying to destroy it but if that brought in more money it wouldn't be off the table lol. It's ineptitude, they don't know what they're doing, they just want to monetize as much as possible.
@@unclerick09 No Rob is not under any form of contract. There was a quite public call out about that last year when Chris Ball claimed on a podcast that Rob was under contract and Rob called him out publicly on social media for being a liar. They just didn't offer him the job.
Very well put
Well said Ben
As someone who's organised multiple downhill events, been a commissaire, and worked as a paramedic at many races, as well as having raced many muddy, barely ridable races, I can completely understand both sides, but safety trumps all. It's only bicycle racing. This is already a very risky sport, and we all understand that there's an accepted level of risk as soon as wheels are rolling on a DH course. However there's no excuse for putting people at an unnecessary level of risk if it's clearly avoidable.
Should riders be consulted? Difficult. They're all under pressure to race, either because they've spent money to be there, or because they have sponsors to keep happy. It's a big ask for a 17-18yo to make that kind of nuanced decision in the backdrop of thier own internal pressures to race, and the external pressures too.
Cathro for president 🥳😁
The arguments about the riders being technically children and that if the serous crash occurs the rescue would be difficult speak to me. Sometimes the hard decision has to be taken to not turn the event into a tragedy.
Serious crash at 20kph ? The same organisation are happy for them to do 60kph as they straighten out tracks for TV.
@@1brenmasterbingo. muddy trousers and a sprained thumb is about the extent of the injuries in these conditions.
whereas bodies explode at the speed in dry Leogang
Kinda, but meanwhile they just let the tracks get faster and faster each year with seemingly very little effective effort to increase safety along that, or to slow down average speeds and let those "children" race on the same track as elites. A lot of the crashes from the junior practice today were pretty slowly sliding out on mud, unlikely to end in any really major injuries compared to what can happen if they crash while often going far over 30 km/h through a forrest with lots of rocks around and the first responder is a not very well trained marshall.
I guess they are more likely to be blamed if something happens because they let a race happen in bad weather conditions, but cynically speaking I believe they worry more about their image than actually about rider safety..
people nowadays are soft, might as well just cancel the entire sport cause someone will get a booboo. This is what happens when you let liberal feminists run a society. Maybe we shouldn't let children ride in cars because that is also unsafe. Go back to walking everywhere because bikes and horses are too dangerous as well.
Meanwhile mentall illness is running rampant because society won't let men be men and everyone is drugged up on prescription meds that all have negative side effects.
I agree, these are kids, the future of the sport. I’m all for racing in shit conditions but that was absolutely unridable. It was the elites may be a different story.
What ever happened to the "riders union" that was forming? riders need to come together in solidarity and have robust discussions with race organisers and team owners about their views and wants for race success... with this also comes the threat of industrial action, for which they should not be afraid to action if needed.
GOOD COVERAGE!
after the first half of the season, the weather gods are now trying to sabotage races as they dont like the coverage this season😅
It's time to start a new DH series without UCI's involvement
They didn't have to cancel the Juniors. Just move the Junior finals into the built-in gap between Elite Semis and Finals on Sunday or run them immediately after the men's Finals.
Include the riders in the decision making and everyone will be happy.
I think the biggest thing that Ben pointed out that should lead to the cancellation is that the medics couldn't get to injured riders if needed.
Didn't seem to stop them in Champery in the past 2 decades, but I think people back then knew they had spines.
My greatest concern is that the methodology being used gives the impression of not involving those able to manage complexity. Ben, you obviously understand this - you mentioned the word nuanced for example.
The UCI is overwhelmed by their responsibilities at present. It’s been reflected since the first race in the presentation. And now this weeks fiasco - I don’t say the decisions were right or wrong (how could I know back here in the U.K.?), but I do say the processes used have been those of the inexperienced and naive.
I could apologise on their behalf, but they are not newcomers to cycling. Not a newcomer to putting on these races. Discovery/GCN/Eurosport are not novices either. Further, RedBull didn’t just set the standard which is out there to learn, they WORKED WITH the UCI for years.
The UCI certainly does know how to do this. For some reason, the ESO, Discovery and the UCI are at odds with each other. It is easy to know this is true. How? They are not talking to the users who are the riders/teams and us the fans. This is always a huge give-away that an organisation or management (in this case both) are in a crisis and are shutting the World out in a futile attempt to hide the crisis.
There is a way forward, but I don’t think it will be taken. Corporate hubris will get in the way of the solution.
What’s the solution? Well, it’s the usual methodology. Accept the issue is not having systems in place to manage complexity. And then, as those are put in place (people and processes), formally include representatives of the ‘users’: riders/teams and fans.
The main funding bodies are already involved (including main sponsors). But there are other ‘smaller’ sponsors that are often nearer to the grass roots. As such, they are also important in underpinning the future of the sport. They are also more philanthropic, so must be included.
juniors should try flats!!
I think Ben could logically and easily explain any given scenario in life. Next week: the space-time continuum!
Hahahaha
It’s funny cuz it’s true
He has a way of communicating easily
First rider droppin in
You are correct sir this is fuckin nutz
Sorry I’m laughin I’m not laughin
If there where multiple major crashes in junior due to conditions would we all be saying it should have been cancelled? Better safe than sorry plenty more racing to be done this season
Balanced and considered opinion, Ben, as usual and I agree. Let them race! Didn't hurt Danny Harts balls in 2011!
What Ben said. ☝🏻
brilliant as usual Ben. As a LVL 2 MTB leader I can totally see why they may the choice they did. As you say, consulting with the Juniors would have been nice for bother parties. But when you are dealing with youngsters, safety is important. There is as you say a degree of risk and danger but as a leader and probably as a organiser, you have to know where the line needs to be drawn. It's not easy or nice but sometimes it is the better option. Especially with the race schedule being so packed.
10:51 preeeachh
Ben is the man
To slick for the juniors but let the elite run tomorrow after the next storm, the best mtb riders on the planet will make it look easy
Ben is the president of DH MTB
Ben, you're a wise man.
A wizard even!
*Have other MTB sports had events cancelled due to weather?* Yes they have! Redbull Rampage, SlopeStyle and Hardline have all had parts of the event cancelled due to weather conditions. This is all down to rider safety. Perhaps one notable difference is in ''some'' cases there was consultation with riders to make this call. However, in this case people are making decisions for kids, not just adults.
Can someone in the industry come out and actually talk about how much the UCI sucks? Everyone seems to dance around it. But the UCI is absolute trash and seems to be doing everything they can do screw over racers and fans.
*I don't have much of a problem with them cancelling the jr races. It's literally everything else they have done this year.
It's time DH went on it's own and dump the UCI .
Cathro for President 2024!
No medic access is the biggest red flag listed to me, other than that it can come under 'it's what they signed up for' so let's ride. If a rider can't move themselves after a bad crash how can they be helped. Sure most crashes are tiny, but the risk of a hugie is not eradicated. I dont think any org would be ok with that possible scenario and no medic access.
It's a bit like F1 needing helicopters ok for takeoff to be able to run a race. The scale of the risks are different, but the method of having a healthcare baseline criteria to go racing at world level is sensible/reasonable
I believe in the not too distant past an F1 race was cancelled because the hellivac could not fly
Awesome
in this case (wet/mud) flat pedals win medals
Reminds me of the race in South Africa some years ago when it was a sloppy mess and riders were scrambling to find flat pedals and shoes - which few of them had brought.
@@ianfurqueron5850 you mean cairns where Gee won on some spectator's fiveten shoes?
@@daylight31415 Yep. I think you're right.
Ben makes great points.
Thanks for addressing the muddy elephant. My main gripe is the same as yours: they should consult the riders so they have a say in the decision. I really hope the elite race isn't cancelled too.
Were the riders having any fun on the unrideable course? Fun to ride, but not to race?
As others have said, if you can't get medics to an injured rider, that's the critical decision made...
Are the T-Shirts gonna be back in stock soon?
what does "Pinkbike" stand for or where did the name come from? ?
if medics can not access the track I feel it needs to be cancelled. Pretty simple really.
It looks sketchier than the mega 😂
Two words ... Waiting Period.
I have to say much better video 🎉 kudos! Very informative and that’s what I like! I have been an athlete and I will say from a sponsorship stand point you want to protect the riders. I think it was the right call to cancel the event.
Its not good news for exciting tracks like this movings forward into the future
Where do I get that shirt, Ben?
If the conditions are so bad that everyone is going so slow that risk of injury is actually lower than at normal speeds then let them race. Everyone may be crashing but they are going too slow to get anything more than bumps and bruises. Big jumps and wind are a different issue.
In my experience slow speed crashes can hurt as much as high speed. Slamming into ground instead of skidding along can be painful.
Ok I took a deep breath. Now let them race!!! 😂
Crazy to me that people are getting mad at uci for wind related injuries.
The steez at 0:18 is, i mean, what do i even say
Any self-respecting rider will accept, if not demand, the race to be postponed/cancelled, if the conditions are this bad. It's very inportant to get the number of serious injuries down, if dh is to survive long term.
Ps. The racing is already great, not much work to be done there
7:33 holy shit i'm dyng XD, poor dudes sliding like on ice
The belly slide
I love this series especially after they get rid of (free) live coverage. What a grandiose idea, when the popularity of cycling is declining all over the world!
I'm curious, what happened to the rider's union everybody was talking about last year? Does it still exist? If so, the riders should be involved in the decision making process, and if everybody agrees there is no wrong decision regarding the canceled race.
Love Cathro
I like to close my eyes and imagine a Scottish Kermit dropping mtb knowledge on me.
REFUND HIS FLT YOU BAR STEWARDS!!!
Back in the day riders could ride in mud. I mean they are professional athletes. Or they will be at some point.
Getting wise in your old age Benjamin
can we get Ben in the commentary box please?
Eliminate the Semi for the Elite and run them all on Sunday. To go directly to a cancellation was unfortunate. It should have been put on hold and the storm predicted, did it come? Perhaps the conditions would have improved and with a little track work it could have been ran. But it does sound like part of the decision was based on broadcast timing.
The whole organization body making decisions on these races is looking so amateur this year. From the moving registration up, to rescheduling race times, and canceling races… just unnecessary and ridiculous.
The track looks fun in the dry, but also looks like a freshly cut skid steer track which anyone that’s ever worked with dirt before knows that it turns into a slippery mud fest as soon as it rains. Poor choice for a race track that has a chance of seeing rain.
Is there any way us fans can help out these privateers?