Great lesson!! Thanks! I learned this tune in 1979 and I'm still working on it. I'm a funk, R&B, reggae, Santana player, but tunes like this help make my "rock" solos sound much better.
Can you comment on the chords provided in the Real Book and on iReal Pro? They are certainly '"related" chords, but I don't think they sound good against the melody. I used those chords as a back track for Four and it just didn't sound right.
Hi Jah - Basically the real book is kind of point in time or someone's version. I think a good thing to remember is; The changes on these tunes are just there to support the head and the melodies played over them. They are dynamic, not set in stone. And while ireal or the book is cool it gives improvisers a distorted view of how to navigate this music - sometimes. The other thing to also recognize is during a tune, changes as well as melodies tend to get mashed up and reharmonized all the time -without any discussion this is going to happen or not happen. It is part of the being present and listening to what is happening in the moment at all times. So in a case like this a chord player might drive the bus here or even a melody player and the goal is these two thing would line up because everyone is actively listening. Remember it's goal not a rule. And sometimes it doesn't work lol. A good tune to listen to that is simple is Mr.PC where there are times the changes are the real book changes and other times they are more standard minor blues. All while Trane, at times plays over both sets, plays the actually "in the moment: changes" and modally as well - just maybe C Dorian or C Pentatonic over the entire form. And somehow it works, because everyone is on board. It is not a "hard" concept just a different one than soling over Evil Ways which is pretty much A Dorian and no one changes any chord for 25 minutes! lol. Hope that helps!
Man DIG IT! Four is one smoking hot tune. Now check this video out and make sure to make a comment and tell me how you play over this classic Miles Davis tune. Peace.
on the Eb-7 to Ab7 change you mentioned playing Ab Dorian. Is this correct? It shouldn't work with the minor 3rd over Ab7, and #5 over Eb-7 but sounds great. Is that your approach?
So we can approach the harmony a lot of different ways of course. But in this case going from Eb Major = major scale, we get a very grounded sound. When the changes go to Eb minor, I can extend the harmony by using "stacked" major scale concepts. So look at it this way, a ii-V in the key of Db major is an E-7 to A7. Because the sound of the chord is Eb minor, I can choose what flavor of minor I want (dorian, natural, melodic etc.) in this case I am choosing to use a natural minor sound over the Eb m7 change because that makes the A7 have a #9 sound. Remember the m3 is the #9 - same thing. Where does all of this come from? Well the central key here is Db Major. Now you become a harmony historian. Db major is the I chord in Db - we know that. But it is also the IV chord in Gb! Ab dorian is the ii chord in Gb! But more importantly here is that when I ignore the fact that the key is Db and “stack” and make the key Gb it gives the sound a lydian vibe and also alters the dominate. It is not something I do ALL the time, but it works nice for this tune. Watch the video on Night and Day and talk about this concert as well. It gives the harmony a more open sound without sound so hokey imo.
@@brucegregori Thank you very much for that detailed response! That makes sense to me. I also like the explanation of the idea in Night and Day. In exploring this concept it is really opening up my playing.
Back in the day, the leader got credit rights for a song regardless if he/she wrote it. Many of Miles' tunes were written by other people and credited to him. Big business existed even back then. It is like many of tunes on Kind of Blue were written by Bill Evans. In fact the whole "modal" concept was Bill's idea. Miles was exploring the idea, but really Bill was the hidden engineer behind it. You get this whole concept when you dive into Bill's version of Nardis and you see how he Modalizes the changes. This is something he did alot - especially on Night and Day and Summertime. Check out my video on Night and Day to get an idea of this concept.
Nice presentation & explanation of material . Ty🙏
Great lesson!! Thanks! I learned this tune in 1979 and I'm still working on it. I'm a funk, R&B, reggae, Santana player, but tunes like this help make my "rock" solos sound much better.
Bruce, I just love those lines you used on this tune!! Your sound is so solid too!!
Wow! I was way overthinking my approach to this great tune-thank you for the simplification & inspiration! Bravo, sir.
Keep it simple that is what works best!
Absolutely Fabulous!!!!! Bravo!!!!!
for sure!
Gracias!
for sure
Can you comment on the chords provided in the Real Book and on iReal Pro? They are certainly '"related" chords, but I don't think they sound good against the melody. I used those chords as a back track for Four and it just didn't sound right.
Hi Jah - Basically the real book is kind of point in time or someone's version. I think a good thing to remember is; The changes on these tunes are just there to support the head and the melodies played over them. They are dynamic, not set in stone. And while ireal or the book is cool it gives improvisers a distorted view of how to navigate this music - sometimes. The other thing to also recognize is during a tune, changes as well as melodies tend to get mashed up and reharmonized all the time -without any discussion this is going to happen or not happen. It is part of the being present and listening to what is happening in the moment at all times. So in a case like this a chord player might drive the bus here or even a melody player and the goal is these two thing would line up because everyone is actively listening. Remember it's goal not a rule. And sometimes it doesn't work lol. A good tune to listen to that is simple is Mr.PC where there are times the changes are the real book changes and other times they are more standard minor blues. All while Trane, at times plays over both sets, plays the actually "in the moment: changes" and modally as well - just maybe C Dorian or C Pentatonic over the entire form. And somehow it works, because everyone is on board. It is not a "hard" concept just a different one than soling over Evil Ways which is pretty much A Dorian and no one changes any chord for 25 minutes! lol. Hope that helps!
Man DIG IT! Four is one smoking hot tune. Now check this video out and make sure to make a comment and tell me how you play over this classic Miles Davis tune. Peace.
on the Eb-7 to Ab7 change you mentioned playing Ab Dorian. Is this correct? It shouldn't work with the minor 3rd over Ab7, and #5 over Eb-7 but sounds great. Is that your approach?
So we can approach the harmony a lot of different ways of course. But in this case going from Eb Major = major scale, we get a very grounded sound. When the changes go to Eb minor, I can extend the harmony by using "stacked" major scale concepts. So look at it this way, a ii-V in the key of Db major is an E-7 to A7. Because the sound of the chord is Eb minor, I can choose what flavor of minor I want (dorian, natural, melodic etc.) in this case I am choosing to use a natural minor sound over the Eb m7 change because that makes the A7 have a #9 sound. Remember the m3 is the #9 - same thing. Where does all of this come from? Well the central key here is Db Major. Now you become a harmony historian. Db major is the I chord in Db - we know that. But it is also the IV chord in Gb! Ab dorian is the ii chord in Gb! But more importantly here is that when I ignore the fact that the key is Db and “stack” and make the key Gb it gives the sound a lydian vibe and also alters the dominate. It is not something I do ALL the time, but it works nice for this tune. Watch the video on Night and Day and talk about this concert as well. It gives the harmony a more open sound without sound so hokey imo.
@@brucegregori Thank you very much for that detailed response! That makes sense to me. I also like the explanation of the idea in Night and Day. In exploring this concept it is really opening up my playing.
great!
Did Miles write this though?
Back in the day, the leader got credit rights for a song regardless if he/she wrote it. Many of Miles' tunes were written by other people and credited to him. Big business existed even back then. It is like many of tunes on Kind of Blue were written by Bill Evans. In fact the whole "modal" concept was Bill's idea. Miles was exploring the idea, but really Bill was the hidden engineer behind it. You get this whole concept when you dive into Bill's version of Nardis and you see how he Modalizes the changes. This is something he did alot - especially on Night and Day and Summertime. Check out my video on Night and Day to get an idea of this concept.