4:3 LCD flat panels almost universally do not properly support the C64’s native resolution of 240p. They all treat it like 480i, which causes issues with 60hz effects like flashing for transparency or smooth scrolling.
Instead of hunting down an old LCD, you could put that money into an Ultimate 64 and use your existing HDMI TV / monitor. Or, you could get the C-64 component video mod board installed. Both of these options bypass or replace the VIC-II and produce a perfect image (although TV's with component inputs are getting hard to find for the component mod). If you MUST use the standard VIC-II video output, the thing to remember when looking at TV's is that you do NOT want a display which supports any resolution above 480i/576i. The lower video input bandwidth of the 480i-only TV sets will go a long way towards reducing the jailbar effects which mar the C-64's display. Modern composite -> HDMI upscalers have high input bandwidth and you will clearly see those faults.
There is a bunch of 4:3 computer monitors with dvi input. You can use those with something like a retrotink 2x or 5x.. but that is going to be a fair bit more expensive.
Yes, the RetroTINK's pricing makes it somewhat high-end. On the budget side of things, I found a ~$30 VGA converter to have acceptable performance, but I prefer the TV as a 3-in-1 solution to needing a converter, a monitor, and a set of speakers. ☺ -- JC
I got an original c64 monitor at a retro con for 10 dollars. The seller said as is and he didn’t even know if it worked. Turns out it did and I got lucky. Keep your eyes peeled for deals
Wow! Even if it was *known* to be non-working, the parts are worth well more than $10. That was a lucky find, but I agree -- always be looking for deals. I suspect one will usually do better with in-person purchases than in the online bidding war. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA yeah it was a pair of older guys and I’m sure they just didn’t want to haul it back into their truck. At 10 dollars I was willing to pay it even if it was a complete dud.
Great information, I have one older Westinghouse 4:3 LCD TV I was using as a C64 monitor but I did buy a slightly newer wide screen LG 20" LCD model that still had the S-video and VGA ports plus the other composite video/audio and it has an option where you can set the default aspect ratio through the menus so I can still get a 4:3 image out of it for the C64 and it does cut the amount of screen it uses on the sides of the screen but it is close to the 13" desired size when that aspect ratio is set. Most of the ones older than the mid-2000s may have the 4:3 default aspect ratio but won't have HDMI ports so if you are wanting something that can allow connection of HDMI devices like Raspberry Pis and more modern console/computer remakes like the THEC64 Maxi/Mini this is one way to provide a display for these things.
Thank you! I have a dedicated C64 setup with original hardware, which is why HDMI is a non-issue for me personally (and why I'm not a fan of pillar-boxing fullscreen on widescreen)... but for a more versatile setup, it's a great point that a larger widescreen display will equal a smaller fullscreen display when switched into 4:3 aspect ratio. -- JC
Having an external PSU does reduce heat to the internal components but on a well-designed display this heat is seldom problematic. Dim LCD issues are likely due to the LCD inverter, not the PSU, failing. Having an external PSU does not remove the risk of the display becoming dim. A bad PSU on an LCD (especially modern ones) will manifest itself differently.
I've got a 19" Benq with integrated speakers which works very well. Only cost £18 on eBay just after lockdown 2020 when everyone was buying a monitor for home working...
@@saganandroid4175 Hi, it's an FP72E. LCD monitor 19" approx. with inbuilt speakers and audio input jack, VGA and DVI inputs. I bought a VGA to HDMI adaptor that has an audio cable pass through, so I plug into the VGA with the adaptor and run a cable from the adaptor to the audio input of the monitor. Get great picture and sound. It've got it on a wall mount above my home office desk and the C64 sits on the keyboard shelf under the desk. So I can pull it out and play at will. Happy days! :)
First of all know the resolutions: 15"=1024x768, 17&19" is 1280x1024 (and thus not 4:3 but 5:4), and 20/21" is usually either 800x600 or the double resolution: 1600x1200. Of all these, the 1600x1200 panels are by far the best, they are IPS/VA with wide viewing angles, decent contrast en nice CCFL backlights with a rich gamut. You CAN look for monitors, but make sure it is a monitor with composite/S-video. These do exist and are not that hard to find. For example a Samsung 213T. You don't want RF tuning, as the noise/chroma bleed will be really bad looking on a flat panel. And last of all, wide-screen is not that bad: the screens are often WAY better, as cheap and black bars will make sure things are still 4:3. For example a Panasonic Viera can be had for 20 bucks or even free. Over RGB SCART, your consoles will look asthonishing on it.
I’m in A PAL region, I have had great success with Sony LCD tvs , using SVideo. i have purchased many svideo to VGA converters none work. The older high quality lcd tv has good image options to provide the correct image ratio. Buy them now while they are cheap and available in a few years they will mostly be recycled. I will admit no LCD TV will give as good an image as a proper monitor, my goto is a Commodore 1802. Where I live almost all LCD TVs work on PAL or NTSC.
CRTs are presently my goto as well (and I also have a certain affinity for the 1802!), but I agree that now is the time to stock up on a few 4:3 LCD TVs for cheap. The CRTs won't last forever, and at the rate the LCDs are being junked, they're going to be hard to find in a few years. It's interesting that your converters haven't worked, although you don't really need one if you have direct inputs that work. On that note, I get the impression that it's much more common in PAL regions to have TVs that support both standards. Here in Canada, I was shocked to actually find an LCD TV that accepted both NTSC & PAL natively. Commonly, one would expect to have to use a video to VGA converter to hook up a PAL C64. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA the VGA converters appear not to recognise the C64 as a PAL signal, or maybe its the non Standard frequency which upsets the VGA sync it results in a very unstable shaky image with no colour, except for horizontal rainbow patterns . I have a free supply of old VGA monitors, so was trying to find a way to use them.
These cheap mini Composite/S-Video->HDMI/VGA converters suck. They do all work fine with other Composite Sources for me (like my DV Camcorder), but none of those I have can cope with the C64 Composite or S-Video signal properly. The only thing that worked for me was this 50€ ODV branded converter (a RetroTINK clone I believe). I really hope there will be a project like RGB2HDMI for the C64 that can process the VICs Luma/Chroma directly to HDMI inside the C64 case. Btw: Many of those old LCD monitors still use CCFLs and those wear out quickly, too. I recommend to stock a few of those cheap CCFL->LED conversion kits while you can still get them.
My experience was similar -- the RCA Composite/SVideo to VGA converter that works very well is a generic brand, for about $30. The cheap "MINI" Composite to HDMI converter did work with my C64 on a modern display, but stretches the output to widescreen (thus I didn't further test it for gaming lag, as it was useless right out of the gate). The "MINI" PAL/NTSC converter in the video simply won't recognise my PAL converted C64 at all, and was a total waste prior to getting the good VGA converter (and then finding an LCD TV that would take a PAL input). -- JC
Dedicated CCTV monitors from AG Neovo and Samsung (Hanwha) SMT are also pretty good with C64... at least models from couple of years ago which include s-video, bnc, hdmi and vga (that can take 15kHz and can also be used with Amiga) inputs.. though I think they only come in 17 inch and larger variety. Their current monitor lineup dropped s-video unfortunately.
First comment EVER! :-) I imagine even older/used CCTV monitors (with S-Video!) would be rarer and more expensive than regular televisions, but they sound like an interesting option to consider. I'm oblivious when it comes to Amiga, but perked up at your mention of 15kHz: that's the same frequency used by the 80-column RGBI output on the C128, so there might be some potential there as well. Thanks for the tip! -- JC
Thx for mentioning AG Neovo. They have 15" models X and SX which are same but SX has more inputs. They have 15kHz and seems to have great picture quality and are made for industrial heavy duty 24/7 usage. And this reflects in price which is 350+ eur... It would be great to see some test with it for c64 and amiga but it is probably too expensive to have it just for a review.
You're right I had years ago also got hold of a 15" lcd tv monitor with hdmi , composite and s-video bought no vga I believe. I also still have real Philips and Commodore crt's that were expensive and how long they still work that remains the question every time I turn them on ;) Followed your advice to buy a second lcd tv monitor and found one for 15 euro without the shipping costs. It also has a separate power supply something my other 15 " tv monitor does not have useful if that power supply ever gives up. It also has svideo composite and scart, vga and audio. Oh yes there is also a built in dvd player that does not throw dvd out of the drawer not interesting haha maybe I will fix that. Recapping is not my favorite job. Last time I did that was with Xbox classic and didn't go well my eyes play a part in that :( bah getting older. Nicest c64 youtube channel to come along keep up the good work good luck.
Thank you for your kind comments on the channel! I also have several Commodore CRTs that I've fully recapped for longevity. Now that's an involved job. My two 15" LCD TVs are mainly for insurance when the CRTs finally bite the dust, although they come in quite handy when I need more space or portability. I don't recap "modern" electronics (like the LCDs) as a matter of course, but in this case I was pretty sure I knew the fault, and it only cost $10 in quality caps. That Toshiba has been running bright and strong ever since! -- JC
8:10 I have an 8-pin A/V port on my C64. The cable is a chroma-luma. You're talking about composite though. Can you just put the Chroma and Luma in a Y-adapter and plug that into the Composite In on the monitor? And how do you even connect a C64 to an S-Video port? Such 8-pin cables exist?!?
The actual screen generated by a Commodore 64 is not perfectly centred; it is shifted slightly up and to the left. During the last minute of this video, you can see on the LCD TV that the bottom border thicker than the top, and the right border thicker than the left. If that's what you're seeing on your TV as well, it's entirely normal. -- JC
There are good monitors for retro-computing. I have a couple of 19” 4:3 Dells from around 2005 that have DVI (which is really good for HDMI conversion), VGA, S-Video and composite input, and even Picture in Picture that I picked up for $20 each. They don’t have sound, but they have audio out, which is good enough for me. The only TVs I have been able to find so far with all of the desired inputs are rather too big - at least 24” , and wide screen format
That sounds like a great deal. That monitor basically has all of the inputs you'd want from a TV. FYI, I found both of my 15" 4:3 LCD TVs on Kijiji... it's one of those things that many people prefer to sell locally for a few bucks, rather than ship. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA I’m really lucky that Goodwill in my area has an outlet that sells all of the donated computer equipment, video games and audio equipment from their various stores in one place. They clean up and update the newer PCs and Macs and sell them, and then leave the older, but not quite retro stuff for people like me to rummage through.
@@jacobfrost2843 Yes, mine are 2007FP’s which were sold worldwide, and according to the manual they work with both NTSC and PAL composite and S-video, though I haven’t got any PAL retro computers to check that with. Some Dell flat screen models even handle CGA, though unfortunately mine don’t.
Hi. Very good video! I found a Philips 150B2 15 but seems that it doesn't have hdmi. When you say 15inchs + hdmi you mean that it can be also new one ? I planning to buy an FPGA based C64 that's why I landed on your video ;).
Thank you! I don't know if you'll find one with HDMI. The ones I've seen either have standard VGA (15-pin), or DVI (which can be converted to VGA with a small adapter). I used an AV to VGA converter with my PAL C64 before I found a rare TV that would accept both NTSC and PAL inputs directly via S-Video. -- JC
Hi I have found one monitor , Monitor RoadStar LCD-1590KLN , which has composite video and scart. I have a original c64 (assembled with clone compoents) and THEC64 which supports HDMI. I managed to connect the TheC64 to the monitor with a HMDI-SCART adapter , the problem is the mess with all these cables I can't stand it :) ... power supply for theC64, power supply for monitor, scart cable from adpter to monitor, power supply for the adapter ...war of cables.... I am thinking to get rid of this monitor TV and go for cctv monitor..., I see some solution also on aliexpress with HDMI and composite video, what you think ?. The quality of this RoadStar monitor is not nice like yours (15DL75) I see yellow color on the border of main commodore screen and on some letters, even if I try to regulate it it is not ideal or equal to many other I have seen on web, same for games :( I might post some photos if you want). Thank you.
Mine work very well, but since there are many models of C64 and LCD, there could be any number of reasons for that. However, S-Video colour issues often come down to the *cable*. Commodore's chroma (colour) signal is amplified MUCH higher than the S-Video specification, which didn't exist at the time. For this reason, many vendors who sell S-Video cables for C64 offer the option of an extra ~300ohm resistor on the chroma wire, which tames that down to what modern equipment expects. I would first make sure you're using a cable with a resistor before troubleshooting anything else. One of my TVs seems to not care whether I use it or not; the other one, without the resistor, gets utterly blown out by colour, but can be fixed by turning the colour control down a significant amount. Then there's my video capture device, on which I must use the resistor cable, or the picture corrupts completely. I would always advise an S-Video cable with the resistor, unless you have replaced the RF Modulator inside your C64 with a modern solution that takes care of the colour issue internally. I will also add that in my opinion, the C64 didn't have decent video output until the 250425 board with 6567 rev8 VIC-II in 1984. Any of the really early breadboxes look lousy to me no matter what I plug them into. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA Thank you for the info, I have a "new" c64c with lumafix, the cable was custom made I will ask the seller if he put the resistor in or not.
@@TheDarkmore No problem! The C64c is my favourite all around, and has the best of the video outputs -- especially if it's one of the later "short board" versions. If that system was sold to you as a package, you may or may not have the resistor on your cable, because I believe one of the controls on Lumafix itself is to adjust the chroma. I personally don't bother with Lumafix and can't advise you there; I know some people swear by them, but others find them hard to adjust and have reviewed them to say that you can often make one thing look better at the expense of making another look worse. -- JC
I'm not sure if I got it right... I bought a 15inch 4:3 LCD tv for 10$, with speakers, external power supply and it has Y-Pb-Pr, VGA, pc audio, AV(RCA? R, L, Video), S-video and rf 75ohm. So what you're saying is I can get a 20$ AV to VGA adapter and this should work with my PAL C64C? I saw one that converts AV to VGA and audio jack.
I went into the rabbithole of finding a display solution for a C64, or even deeper for a C128 and I gave up. C64/C128 output stinks, no matter how hard you try. For using a real machine, connect over RF and accept the mess. A proper colour RF CRT TV is 10€. Enjoy your obnoxious purple on purple BASIC text in an unreadable fonth with massive colour bleed and noise as it is supposed to be. Even with the correct cables on a Trinitron with S-video the image sucks. Heck, even on a venerable 1084 it is far from clean. Only C128 80 column display on that screen is nice, but it has no use without compatible software, so why bother? If you want a clean image, get an emulator with customisation for the palette and enjoy brighter colours.
Speaking from NTSC-land, I have found that some newer TVs (like a 40" widescreen, for example) simply do not understand the signals outputted by the C64, but I've never had a problem with an older/smaller full-screen TV of the sort being discussed in the video. I know there are multiple variants of PAL -- on which I am no expert -- but I would *assume* that a C64 sold in Australia would correspond to signals understood by TVs that were sold in the Australian market. Test the composite input first to see if the TV understands the signal. With S-Video, the chroma output on a C64 is much higher than the standard, and it blows out the colour on some TVs -- this is why modern C64 S-Video cables often give you the option of having a ~300ohm resistor added to the chroma wire. One of my TVs doesn't care what cable I use; on the other, I have to turn the colour WAY down if I'm not using the one with the resistor. Good luck! -- JC
4:3 LCD flat panels almost universally do not properly support the C64’s native resolution of 240p. They all treat it like 480i, which causes issues with 60hz effects like flashing for transparency or smooth scrolling.
Instead of hunting down an old LCD, you could put that money into an Ultimate 64 and use your existing HDMI TV / monitor. Or, you could get the C-64 component video mod board installed. Both of these options bypass or replace the VIC-II and produce a perfect image (although TV's with component inputs are getting hard to find for the component mod). If you MUST use the standard VIC-II video output, the thing to remember when looking at TV's is that you do NOT want a display which supports any resolution above 480i/576i. The lower video input bandwidth of the 480i-only TV sets will go a long way towards reducing the jailbar effects which mar the C-64's display. Modern composite -> HDMI upscalers have high input bandwidth and you will clearly see those faults.
Ultimate 64 costs about 10 times as much. And I think C64 output on a modern widescreen display looks stupid.
There is a bunch of 4:3 computer monitors with dvi input. You can use those with something like a retrotink 2x or 5x.. but that is going to be a fair bit more expensive.
Yes, the RetroTINK's pricing makes it somewhat high-end. On the budget side of things, I found a ~$30 VGA converter to have acceptable performance, but I prefer the TV as a 3-in-1 solution to needing a converter, a monitor, and a set of speakers. ☺ -- JC
I got an original c64 monitor at a retro con for 10 dollars. The seller said as is and he didn’t even know if it worked. Turns out it did and I got lucky. Keep your eyes peeled for deals
Wow! Even if it was *known* to be non-working, the parts are worth well more than $10. That was a lucky find, but I agree -- always be looking for deals. I suspect one will usually do better with in-person purchases than in the online bidding war. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA yeah it was a pair of older guys and I’m sure they just didn’t want to haul it back into their truck. At 10 dollars I was willing to pay it even if it was a complete dud.
Great information, I have one older Westinghouse 4:3 LCD TV I was using as a C64 monitor but I did buy a slightly newer wide screen LG 20" LCD model that still had the S-video and VGA ports plus the other composite video/audio and it has an option where you can set the default aspect ratio through the menus so I can still get a 4:3 image out of it for the C64 and it does cut the amount of screen it uses on the sides of the screen but it is close to the 13" desired size when that aspect ratio is set. Most of the ones older than the mid-2000s may have the 4:3 default aspect ratio but won't have HDMI ports so if you are wanting something that can allow connection of HDMI devices like Raspberry Pis and more modern console/computer remakes like the THEC64 Maxi/Mini this is one way to provide a display for these things.
Thank you! I have a dedicated C64 setup with original hardware, which is why HDMI is a non-issue for me personally (and why I'm not a fan of pillar-boxing fullscreen on widescreen)... but for a more versatile setup, it's a great point that a larger widescreen display will equal a smaller fullscreen display when switched into 4:3 aspect ratio. -- JC
Having an external PSU does reduce heat to the internal components but on a well-designed display this heat is seldom problematic. Dim LCD issues are likely due to the LCD inverter, not the PSU, failing. Having an external PSU does not remove the risk of the display becoming dim. A bad PSU on an LCD (especially modern ones) will manifest itself differently.
very informative, thank you! LG 20LC1RB also does a great job, but bigger then recommended.
I've got a 19" Benq with integrated speakers which works very well. Only cost £18 on eBay just after lockdown 2020 when everyone was buying a monitor for home working...
BenQ for 18? Amazing deal!!
What's the model #? Is it a TV or monitor or both?
@@saganandroid4175 Hi, it's an FP72E. LCD monitor 19" approx. with inbuilt speakers and audio input jack, VGA and DVI inputs. I bought a VGA to HDMI adaptor that has an audio cable pass through, so I plug into the VGA with the adaptor and run a cable from the adaptor to the audio input of the monitor. Get great picture and sound. It've got it on a wall mount above my home office desk and the C64 sits on the keyboard shelf under the desk. So I can pull it out and play at will. Happy days! :)
First of all know the resolutions:
15"=1024x768, 17&19" is 1280x1024 (and thus not 4:3 but 5:4), and 20/21" is usually either 800x600 or the double resolution: 1600x1200. Of all these, the 1600x1200 panels are by far the best, they are IPS/VA with wide viewing angles, decent contrast en nice CCFL backlights with a rich gamut.
You CAN look for monitors, but make sure it is a monitor with composite/S-video. These do exist and are not that hard to find. For example a Samsung 213T. You don't want RF tuning, as the noise/chroma bleed will be really bad looking on a flat panel.
And last of all, wide-screen is not that bad: the screens are often WAY better, as cheap and black bars will make sure things are still 4:3. For example a Panasonic Viera can be had for 20 bucks or even free. Over RGB SCART, your consoles will look asthonishing on it.
I’m in A PAL region, I have had great success with Sony LCD tvs , using SVideo. i have purchased many svideo to VGA converters none work.
The older high quality lcd tv has good image options to provide the correct image ratio. Buy them now while they are cheap and available in a few years they will mostly be recycled. I will admit no LCD TV will give as good an image as a proper monitor, my goto is a Commodore 1802. Where I live almost all LCD TVs work on PAL or NTSC.
CRTs are presently my goto as well (and I also have a certain affinity for the 1802!), but I agree that now is the time to stock up on a few 4:3 LCD TVs for cheap. The CRTs won't last forever, and at the rate the LCDs are being junked, they're going to be hard to find in a few years. It's interesting that your converters haven't worked, although you don't really need one if you have direct inputs that work. On that note, I get the impression that it's much more common in PAL regions to have TVs that support both standards. Here in Canada, I was shocked to actually find an LCD TV that accepted both NTSC & PAL natively. Commonly, one would expect to have to use a video to VGA converter to hook up a PAL C64. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA the VGA converters appear not to recognise the C64 as a PAL signal, or maybe its the non Standard frequency which upsets the VGA sync it results in a very unstable shaky image with no colour, except for horizontal rainbow patterns . I have a free supply of old VGA monitors, so was trying to find a way to use them.
@@BasicBitesCA just brought this old Sony LCD TV works great on C64 & Vic20 Sony KLV-26S200A
Great video. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
These cheap mini Composite/S-Video->HDMI/VGA converters suck. They do all work fine with other Composite Sources for me (like my DV Camcorder), but none of those I have can cope with the C64 Composite or S-Video signal properly. The only thing that worked for me was this 50€ ODV branded converter (a RetroTINK clone I believe). I really hope there will be a project like RGB2HDMI for the C64 that can process the VICs Luma/Chroma directly to HDMI inside the C64 case. Btw: Many of those old LCD monitors still use CCFLs and those wear out quickly, too. I recommend to stock a few of those cheap CCFL->LED conversion kits while you can still get them.
My experience was similar -- the RCA Composite/SVideo to VGA converter that works very well is a generic brand, for about $30. The cheap "MINI" Composite to HDMI converter did work with my C64 on a modern display, but stretches the output to widescreen (thus I didn't further test it for gaming lag, as it was useless right out of the gate). The "MINI" PAL/NTSC converter in the video simply won't recognise my PAL converted C64 at all, and was a total waste prior to getting the good VGA converter (and then finding an LCD TV that would take a PAL input). -- JC
Dedicated CCTV monitors from AG Neovo and Samsung (Hanwha) SMT are also pretty good with C64... at least models from couple of years ago which include s-video, bnc, hdmi and vga (that can take 15kHz and can also be used with Amiga) inputs.. though I think they only come in 17 inch and larger variety. Their current monitor lineup dropped s-video unfortunately.
First comment EVER! :-) I imagine even older/used CCTV monitors (with S-Video!) would be rarer and more expensive than regular televisions, but they sound like an interesting option to consider. I'm oblivious when it comes to Amiga, but perked up at your mention of 15kHz: that's the same frequency used by the 80-column RGBI output on the C128, so there might be some potential there as well. Thanks for the tip! -- JC
Thx for mentioning AG Neovo. They have 15" models X and SX which are same but SX has more inputs. They have 15kHz and seems to have great picture quality and are made for industrial heavy duty 24/7 usage. And this reflects in price which is 350+ eur... It would be great to see some test with it for c64 and amiga but it is probably too expensive to have it just for a review.
You're right I had years ago also got hold of a 15" lcd tv monitor with hdmi , composite and s-video bought no vga I believe.
I also still have real Philips and Commodore crt's that were expensive and how long they still work that remains the question every time I turn them on ;)
Followed your advice to buy a second lcd tv monitor and found one for 15 euro without the shipping costs.
It also has a separate power supply something my other 15 " tv monitor does not have useful if that power supply ever gives up.
It also has svideo composite and scart, vga and audio.
Oh yes there is also a built in dvd player that does not throw dvd out of the drawer not interesting haha maybe I will fix that.
Recapping is not my favorite job.
Last time I did that was with Xbox classic and didn't go well my eyes play a part in that :( bah getting older.
Nicest c64 youtube channel to come along keep up the good work good luck.
Thank you for your kind comments on the channel! I also have several Commodore CRTs that I've fully recapped for longevity. Now that's an involved job. My two 15" LCD TVs are mainly for insurance when the CRTs finally bite the dust, although they come in quite handy when I need more space or portability. I don't recap "modern" electronics (like the LCDs) as a matter of course, but in this case I was pretty sure I knew the fault, and it only cost $10 in quality caps. That Toshiba has been running bright and strong ever since! -- JC
1702 all the way *!!..
Thanks for sharing
* as long as it lasts
8:10 I have an 8-pin A/V port on my C64. The cable is a chroma-luma. You're talking about composite though. Can you just put the Chroma and Luma in a Y-adapter and plug that into the Composite In on the monitor? And how do you even connect a C64 to an S-Video port? Such 8-pin cables exist?!?
You use a 5-pin cable which plugs into the 8-pin port, but is wired to the pin that gives you composite video.
In the video you should tell people the model info is in folded area of text below the video.
i have a 15" LCD TV but the video is never centered right.
The actual screen generated by a Commodore 64 is not perfectly centred; it is shifted slightly up and to the left. During the last minute of this video, you can see on the LCD TV that the bottom border thicker than the top, and the right border thicker than the left. If that's what you're seeing on your TV as well, it's entirely normal. -- JC
There are good monitors for retro-computing. I have a couple of 19” 4:3 Dells from around 2005 that have DVI (which is really good for HDMI conversion), VGA, S-Video and composite input, and even Picture in Picture that I picked up for $20 each. They don’t have sound, but they have audio out, which is good enough for me. The only TVs I have been able to find so far with all of the desired inputs are rather too big - at least 24” , and wide screen format
That sounds like a great deal. That monitor basically has all of the inputs you'd want from a TV. FYI, I found both of my 15" 4:3 LCD TVs on Kijiji... it's one of those things that many people prefer to sell locally for a few bucks, rather than ship. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA I’m really lucky that Goodwill in my area has an outlet that sells all of the donated computer equipment, video games and audio equipment from their various stores in one place. They clean up and update the newer PCs and Macs and sell them, and then leave the older, but not quite retro stuff for people like me to rummage through.
I hesitate to mention, but some of these Dell monitors handle PAL beautifully.
@@jacobfrost2843 Yes, mine are 2007FP’s which were sold worldwide, and according to the manual they work with both NTSC and PAL composite and S-video, though I haven’t got any PAL retro computers to check that with. Some Dell flat screen models even handle CGA, though unfortunately mine don’t.
@@Doug_in_NC They do not have hdmi right ?
Hi. Very good video! I found a Philips 150B2 15 but seems that it doesn't have hdmi. When you say 15inchs + hdmi you mean that it can be also new one ? I planning to buy an FPGA based C64 that's why I landed on your video ;).
Thank you! I don't know if you'll find one with HDMI. The ones I've seen either have standard VGA (15-pin), or DVI (which can be converted to VGA with a small adapter). I used an AV to VGA converter with my PAL C64 before I found a rare TV that would accept both NTSC and PAL inputs directly via S-Video. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA thank you.
Hi I have found one monitor , Monitor RoadStar LCD-1590KLN , which has composite video and scart. I have a original c64 (assembled with clone compoents) and THEC64 which supports HDMI. I managed to connect the TheC64 to the monitor with a HMDI-SCART adapter , the problem is the mess with all these cables I can't stand it :) ... power supply for theC64, power supply for monitor, scart cable from adpter to monitor, power supply for the adapter ...war of cables....
I am thinking to get rid of this monitor TV and go for cctv monitor..., I see some solution also on aliexpress with HDMI and composite video, what you think ?. The quality of this RoadStar monitor is not nice like yours (15DL75) I see yellow color on the border of main commodore screen and on some letters, even if I try to regulate it it is not ideal or equal to many other I have seen on web, same for games :( I might post some photos if you want). Thank you.
The best choice is a crt monitor with ossc and a hdmi to vga adaptor
I tried 2 lcds both have svideo port, still colorbleed is horrendous...
Mine work very well, but since there are many models of C64 and LCD, there could be any number of reasons for that. However, S-Video colour issues often come down to the *cable*. Commodore's chroma (colour) signal is amplified MUCH higher than the S-Video specification, which didn't exist at the time. For this reason, many vendors who sell S-Video cables for C64 offer the option of an extra ~300ohm resistor on the chroma wire, which tames that down to what modern equipment expects. I would first make sure you're using a cable with a resistor before troubleshooting anything else. One of my TVs seems to not care whether I use it or not; the other one, without the resistor, gets utterly blown out by colour, but can be fixed by turning the colour control down a significant amount. Then there's my video capture device, on which I must use the resistor cable, or the picture corrupts completely. I would always advise an S-Video cable with the resistor, unless you have replaced the RF Modulator inside your C64 with a modern solution that takes care of the colour issue internally. I will also add that in my opinion, the C64 didn't have decent video output until the 250425 board with 6567 rev8 VIC-II in 1984. Any of the really early breadboxes look lousy to me no matter what I plug them into. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA Thank you for the info, I have a "new" c64c with lumafix, the cable was custom made I will ask the seller if he put the resistor in or not.
@@TheDarkmore No problem! The C64c is my favourite all around, and has the best of the video outputs -- especially if it's one of the later "short board" versions. If that system was sold to you as a package, you may or may not have the resistor on your cable, because I believe one of the controls on Lumafix itself is to adjust the chroma. I personally don't bother with Lumafix and can't advise you there; I know some people swear by them, but others find them hard to adjust and have reviewed them to say that you can often make one thing look better at the expense of making another look worse. -- JC
@@BasicBitesCA Hi, I had to adjust one of the pots on the lumafix to balance out the colorbleed, nice samsung tv, stereo, 4:3 mode, I'm happy now! :-)
I'm not sure if I got it right... I bought a 15inch 4:3 LCD tv for 10$, with speakers, external power supply and it has Y-Pb-Pr, VGA, pc audio, AV(RCA? R, L, Video), S-video and rf 75ohm. So what you're saying is I can get a 20$ AV to VGA adapter and this should work with my PAL C64C? I saw one that converts AV to VGA and audio jack.
I went into the rabbithole of finding a display solution for a C64, or even deeper for a C128 and I gave up.
C64/C128 output stinks, no matter how hard you try. For using a real machine, connect over RF and accept the mess. A proper colour RF CRT TV is 10€. Enjoy your obnoxious purple on purple BASIC text in an unreadable fonth with massive colour bleed and noise as it is supposed to be.
Even with the correct cables on a Trinitron with S-video the image sucks. Heck, even on a venerable 1084 it is far from clean. Only C128 80 column display on that screen is nice, but it has no use without compatible software, so why bother?
If you want a clean image, get an emulator with customisation for the palette and enjoy brighter colours.
I'm in Australia and have Pal . So if I find an LCD tv with svideo , I can plug straight in from the c64 and should work Ok ?
Speaking from NTSC-land, I have found that some newer TVs (like a 40" widescreen, for example) simply do not understand the signals outputted by the C64, but I've never had a problem with an older/smaller full-screen TV of the sort being discussed in the video. I know there are multiple variants of PAL -- on which I am no expert -- but I would *assume* that a C64 sold in Australia would correspond to signals understood by TVs that were sold in the Australian market. Test the composite input first to see if the TV understands the signal. With S-Video, the chroma output on a C64 is much higher than the standard, and it blows out the colour on some TVs -- this is why modern C64 S-Video cables often give you the option of having a ~300ohm resistor added to the chroma wire. One of my TVs doesn't care what cable I use; on the other, I have to turn the colour WAY down if I'm not using the one with the resistor. Good luck! -- JC
Works for me in NZ we probably have the same tvs
Go s video to vga adaptor then into monitor. Best option is into ossc then hdmi to vga adaptor. Or buy a crt monitor for the ossc for a big step up