Corrections: Step-over rate was actually 75%, not 50% as stated. Also, I previously mentioned in the description that I thought the steppers were being fed at 1.0 amps, but I think they were getting 0.8 amps. This explains why I could not understand how they were staying so cool.
3d printing has made the gas pipe linear rail builds interesting again. Coming from the jgro and joes era I would've loved to experience this phase as well. Looks fun.
I'll say. I replied to someone else that "my sense is I'm not even close to this thing's rigidity limits. I think I could bump the stepover percent up, and/or the feed rate up, and have literally no issues. I have to uncover some more MDF scraps for more testing once I get the RC2 version built!"
The hardware kit for the new LR4 started selling today on Ryan's site at v1e.com! The printed parts models will likely be available on Printables.com and Thingiverse.com sometime soon, likely in the next day or two. Also, check out the new assembly documentation being worked on even as we speak: docs.v1e.com/lowrider/
@@zosojay024 If you do, you can use your LR3 to cut parts for your LR4, namely strut plates and aluminum XZ plates. I used my full sheet capable LR3 to cut those things for my LR4 test machine! I posted a video showing the aluminum plates being cut using trochoidal milling. LR3 is a very capable machine!
Yeah 🎉! I'm almost done printing parts for my V3 and goong to buy the kit on V3 store. But I don't know if i'will have to pay import taxes buying from Europe. Thank you very much for your videos and for your Big contribution on this terrific project!
You bet. And my sense is I'm not even close to this thing's rigidity limits. I think I could bump the stepover percent up, and/or the feed rate up, and have literally no issues. I have to uncover some more MDF scraps for more testing once I get the RC2 version built!
Thanks! In the world of CNC, tool changer usually refers to automatic tool changer. There are people who make such things in a DIY fashion. However, I don’t have one and since they require a spindle that can rotate in both directions - and most of us use trim routers that can only spin in one direction, it’s not something you’re likely to see on a V1 machine. I don’t have one, and there’s not one shown in the video. So I’m a little confused on what you are referring to.
I remember watching your plasma cutter video with a very cool torch attached with magnets. Maybe I wrongly assume that was a quick tool changer for router/plasma/laser. I'm trying to keep up with your videos... sorry for that.
@@luisvegano Ah! I understand you now. Those magnets were so that if the plasma torch ever got snagged on a piece of metal that was sticking up, the torch could detach instead of being damaged. Magnetic breakaway.
@@luisvegano All the printable designs I made for the plasma based LowRider 3 are available on Printables here: www.printables.com/@design8studio/models?search=plasma
Where can we get the 3d printable files for this? The links appear to be invalid on the Low Rider CNC v4 webpage. I tried searching on Printables and Thingiverse, but can only find version 3.
Hey Doug, amazing! I know you've said its more rigid, and btw yours looks really cool. I am wondering if you are somehow able to quantify that? What material are the strut plates (hardboard?)? Can you post some pictures of the back side and closeups of the y struts on the forum? I really like that the new Y axis shield the wires and the motors, and especially the ball screw from getting dust in them.
Most everyone on the beta team has built earlier LowRiders and says they can tell by feel that this gantry is more rigid. Just by tugging on it that’s my sense. For my struts I wanted 1/4 inch thick hardboard instead of 1/8 inch. I couldn’t find 1/4 inch at my local home improvement stores but I did find that Home Depot has some 5 mm thick hardboard listed as wainscoting. I used that and it’s working great. One side of it was either primed or painted white. I faced that out, and I used my CO2 laser to engrave the Lowrider name and V1 logo and my Design8Studio shop logo. I will aim to maybe start a build thread and post some pics that are OK to share now.
Yep. Just gravity. But the gantry is a beefy thing. With the nice big steel EMT tubes (OD of 29.5 mm) plus the weight of the router plus the hefty printed core, plus the stepper, plus the 5mm hardboard strut plates, plus the printed braces. There's a serious amount of gravity power holding it down.
Would you please include some upgrade options in your instructions for this build? 1. Better software and interface - I have been researching using something like Mach4 recently. 2. Closed loop motors - I am so tired of tossing out wood that was ruined by one jump in a motor that caused the remainder of the run to be off by a few millimeters. 3. Maybe L3 solved this one, but auto squaring and leveling would be pretty darn cool. I have to go through routine every time I start a project. 4. spots to put in some of those 5v laser cross hairs would be useful. 5. Adding a led light ring below the router would make seeing much better. 6. If I got real crazy, I was going to design a magnetic dust shoe that could be easily removed to change bits. Anyway, point being. Design a base model, but then add links for all the upgrades and mods people make that you think make the cut to the directions page. Ultimately, I want to see a $2500-ish Lowrider build take on a $30,000 commercial CNC in a cutting challenge to see if the MPCNC world can win the competition. Judging on speed, accuracy and reliability. From what I see big commercial machines use a lot of heavy, heavy steel to get the rigidity they need. All that mass, makes the motors have to be huge and expensive to move it fast. I think applying torsion box principles to the lowrider gantry with ultra light weight materials (like an airplane wing) to maximize rigidity without increasing weight would keep the motor size and cost down. Keep up the great work!
If someone breaks the ice and uses closed loop steppers, they can no doubt provide advice for anyone else wanting to. This video’s cut, and the more recent one done in hardwood, were made with the NEMA 17 steppers getting 0.8 amps, sharp bit, no skipped steps! Closed loop steppers can be used but they are more expensive. This is not running on Marlin but rather on FluidNC firmware on the Jackpot control board bought from Ryan! If you have not checked out the FluidNC firmware with the WebU available through wifi, it's quite nice. It also supports a DIY pendant, called FluidDial, which I've built and you see that in the video! PS: I previously mentioned thinking they steppers were getting 1 amp each, but I double checked and they were using stock config amount of 0.8 amps.
@@design8studio Thanks for the info. I will definitely check that out. As for the closed loop motors, I am not sure I am using the word 'skipping' in the right context. With my L2 anytime the machine gets bogged down or maybe hits a harder spot in the wood, it tends to get out of alignment on 1 or more of the axis because the motor turned but the machine didn't move. You can hear the motors 'grinding' or whatever you want to call that very clearly. I don't think the problem is with the power of the actual motor. I would guess it comes from several different issues but the end result is one motor 'thinks' it moved the machine to a new position, but it didn't quite get it all the way there. Then every GCode command after that is off by that measurement.
@@claib4 Yes, that is exactly what the term "skipping steps" refers to. The loud snapping could easily be mistaken for the belt teeth popping from one groove on the gear pulley to another groove, but it's actually the magnets and the stater in the motor losing one "connection" and popping over to the "next" magnetic connection. The issue of skipping steps arises when the real world resistance to the commanded movement is greater than the transmitted force of the motor and geared / belted transmission assembly can muster. There are at least two ways of combatting this: increase force power of the assembly, or reduce the resistance. The resistance can be a result of a dull bit. This can be overcome by a sharp bit. The resistance also comes because the feeds and speeds were incorrect, demanding too much, and this can be overcome by correcting the feeds and speeds. On the other side of the equation, the force power of the assembly can be increased by adding more current from the drivers to the steppers, but this has a limit because it adds heat to the steppers, which beyond a certain point, can soften / melt printed plastic motor mounts. In my most recent video, in which I tested the new LR4 pre-release designated RC2, I cut hardwood successfully using 50mm/sec feed rate, a 12mm depth of cut, and the motors at only 0.8 amps of current, with my stepper motors very cool, using a sharp bit, and I had no missed steps. I repeated the test three or four times, and never had a missed step. In high school I enrolled in a gymnastics class, and the coach had a saying: "The more balance you have, the less strength you need. The less balance you have, the more strength you need." If you have a lack of balance (parlance for dull bit and / or incorrect feeds and speeds), you will need more strength (parlance for either overly hot steppers or expensive closed loop steppers). May I humbly suggest before you go for closed loop steppers, i.e. simply throwing more money at the problem in order to add more power, double check for sharp bit and for correct feeds and speeds. I paid a one-time fee for GWizard calculator for figuring my feeds and speeds, but there are free calculator tools and spreadsheets available. Getting right feeds and speeds is one of the areas of greatest challenge for hobbyist CNC makers. It is also the area of greatest fruit when it is gotten right.
@@design8studio Thank you for taking the time to give such a great answer. I honestly don't know what amperage is running to my motors but after you explanation, I definitely want to investigate that more. I could see how that could effect it now. It's been a while since I messed with a feed/speed calculator but I will check one out again. I have been just adjusting that based on if I am getting good chips or sawdust. Again, thanks for the time and sharing!!
@@claib4 Nice thing about the Jackpot, the new control board Ryan makes and sells, is the driver current is set in the config file and easy to edit. Ryan's store sells temperature gauge stickers (thermometer stickers) that are made to stick onto the stepper motors, and they let you see how hot the motors are getting. At 0.8 amps, they stay quite cool, barely warm at all. The stickers read back in both Celsius and Fahrenheit, with the Celsius being in 5 degree increments. At 0.8 amps, mine show 30 Celsius lit up. The goal is stay no higher than 45 Celsius, I think. At 1.0 amps, mine are at the 45 Celsius increment. I did the amazing speed test video (where I cut the hardwood so easily) with 0.8 amps! I later tried 1.0 amps (too hot for me), and 0.9 amps (still borderline hotter than I wanted) and finally set them to 0.85 amps, which is where I left them. Another nice thing about the Jackpot is that its firmware is FluidNC, which not only supports wifi and the web-based user interface (WebUI), but it also supports the FluidDial, a DIY pendant. I've built one of the pendants for my big full-size LowRider, and now since I will have a smaller second LowRider as a result of being on the beta test team, I am building another FluidDial, so that both LowRiders will have one. You can see me using the FluidDial in the various test cut videos.
The previous video was a carbide 2-flute up-cut bit, cutting MDF with a 12 mm depth of cut, but I had my RPMs too fast on the router. At least for a two flute bit it was too fast. This one was a carbide 1-flute up-cut bit.
Absolutely spectacular.... I'm a TD/Set designer at 5 local schools and I am pitching the idea of building a LowRider as a group project for the student build crews and myself. The IV speed increase will surely remove any pushback i may receive from admin regarding the tools usefulness. Do you know when it may be available in a kit form? Hoping for a complete kit (less the 3d printed parts, we can handle) We would want to build one capable of a full 4x8 sheet of material.
Cool! That would be awesome. Couple of things here. The hardware kit for the LR3 is not going to change very much to become an LR4 hardware kit. The difference comes down to just a few screws. When got into the beta team, I ordered the LR3 hardware kit to use for making the LR4 beta, totally adequate for it. The other point is ... no official date has been set yet, and I could not begin to guess at that. My general sense is that we are getting close to a final release candidate, but it's hard to say for certain. Ryan talks like we are close.
@@design8studio thank you for the fast reply! I'll keep my eyes open. I've been following you channel for a good while now and subscribed today. The mods you have made make it LR so much more complete and professional . Thank you for your contributions, R&D, and insight!
@@ArtTistic Thanks! the LR4 is so, so nice, it won't need much of anything in the way of mods, but I'm sure the community will continue to think outside the box. Ryan has been incredibly attentive to various unusual non-stock ways in which the LR3 has been used, and in support he's added features to make the LR4 able to serve, in (new) stock configurations, for more of those uses that were previously non-stock. For instance, it will support homing to the opposite side of both the short and long axes, which provides built-in support for makers like me who swap their X and Y, and/or who flip the rail to the opposite side, or both.
@@design8studio truly awesome improvements! I'm super excited to dive into the build. My set designing and building season has already begun for the fall shows and will likely overlap into the spring builds. That being what it is, I'd love to get as much done on the build as possible. I've stated the table design and have printed and received parts for the Fluid Dial. (will assemble that tomorrow) In regards to the Jackpot board, I was going to order it from Ryan, other than the 24v pwr supply, what additional items do I need for the board? Again thank you for producing this content and for helping the "noobs" get their footing ! Much appreciated, Doug. God Bless
This is pretty much a given. Ryan's already been talking about doing test cuts in aluminum, and one of the other beta testers is planning, and suggesting to me, to cut hardwood. I've got some maple. I think I can get some aluminum scraps that are 1/4" thick.
heyy doug im having an issue with my LR3 i have a 1.5k spindle its like 9lbs I'm getting alot of deflection on it in the LR4 the tubes are bigger? to avoid this?
The LR4's tube options are all bigger than the LR3's tube options. The LR4 default tube for US is 1" EMT. EMT is sold based on inside diameter, but for LowRider we are concerned about outside diameter. The 1" ID of the EMT results in an OD of 29.5mm. The other options for those outside the US include 30mm and 32mm. I think another thing that helps prevent deflection is a better material choice for strut plates. In one view, all they are is skin, so it needs to be something that resists stretching. In another view (perhaps the "over engineer to be better" view), make them thicker than skin (max is 1/4"), and of something that resists bending and twisting in addition to resisting stretching. For my smaller LR4 (seen in this video) I used 5mm thick hardboard sourced from "wainscoting" from Home Depot. I was going to use that for strut plates on my big full-size LowRider too, and it probably would be wonderful. Nevertheless, I just recently bit the bullet and ordered some 1/4" aluminum plate strips for that. Ryan says 1/8" [aluminum] would be totally fine, and no doubt he's right - he's an engineer, and I'm not. Still, since my full-size LR has a l-o-n-g gantry, I like that it will be as strong as I can get it.
So depending on one's location globally, there are several tubing sizes being supported. I'm in the USA, so our choice here is 1" (ID) EMT (which is sold based on ID, even though the LowRider concern is about OD). This EMT has an OD of 29.5mm. I think a couple of other sizes being supported for international use are OD 30 mm and OD 32 mm.
@@design8studio Not sure if you're allowed to say, but the Y rail looks like it might be the same diameter EMT as the gantry this time around? Just trying to decide if I need to buy one or two pieces next time I'm at HD or Lowe's. I was about to hit you up with some questions on you LR3 mods, but looks like I'll just be patiently waiting for the LR4 release.
@@KeithKline Well that part does seem pretty settled, and so I think it’s OK for me to say that, yes, the EMT for the gantry and the Y rail is the same size. It is listed (at home improvement stores) as 1” EMT. That’s its inside diameter, but for LowRider we’re concerned with its outside diameter, and the OD for this EMT is 29.5 mm.
Has anyone built a 4x8 and tested the rigidity? The one you're test appears pretty short in the x. Not that plywood requires a supper rigid machine but still curious.
A couple of the other beta testers have built full size, and they are getting fantastic results. I will be eventually upgrading my full size LR3 to LR4. My full size LR3 with 25.4 mm (outside diameter) stainless steel tubes can already mill 1/4" aluminum in a single pass at a pretty quick clip, and this LR4 has bigger 29.5 mm (outside diameter) EMT galvanized steel tubes, and it is substantially more rigid. I have no doubts this thing will be a beast on both metal and hardwood.
So, I did not alter the acceleration settings from how Ryan had them in the stock config on the 2nd Jackpot I bought new for this. It's at 200 mm/sec2. Also, Ryan ships 24v power supplies now (I think by default) on LowRider kits. Anyhow, I bought another LR3 hardware kit just for this build, and got the 24v supply.
Not yet, but it's in the works. Ryan's already been talking about doing test cuts in aluminum, and one of the other beta testers is planning, and suggesting to me, to cut hardwood. I've got some maple. I think I can get some aluminum scraps that are 1/4" thick.
I'm having trouble with melamine board on LR3. Really slow, rather rippled cuts and loses steps quite easily. About 4-5 hours for a simple 18mm full 4x8 sheet cabinet. The LR4 looks promissing, but I'm sceptic. Nema23 motors now?
Hmm. Maybe the bit is the dull or the feeds and speeds are not correct? It definitely sounds like something is not right because you should get better performance than that. Are you using some type of an online reference for your feeds and speeds calculations? I purchased a Calculator tool, but there are free spreadsheet tables available. If a bit is dull it makes a huge problem.
Also, another thing to check is whether or not all of your grub screws are tight. Did you put thread locker on all your grub screws? The problem you’re describing is pretty common with loose grub screws.
Build the LR3 and get comfortable with it and then you could use it to cut hardboard strut plates and aluminum XZ plates to upgrade to a Lowrider v4! The hardware kit for the v3 and v4 versions are almost identical- only a difference of a few screws.
Corrections: Step-over rate was actually 75%, not 50% as stated. Also, I previously mentioned in the description that I thought the steppers were being fed at 1.0 amps, but I think they were getting 0.8 amps. This explains why I could not understand how they were staying so cool.
3d printing has made the gas pipe linear rail builds interesting again. Coming from the jgro and joes era I would've loved to experience this phase as well. Looks fun.
It is so fascinating seeing diy CNC reaching this level of quality. Keep on the good work!
One video better than the other one. Cant believe how good and rigid it is. Amazing.
I'll say. I replied to someone else that "my sense is I'm not even close to this thing's rigidity limits. I think I could bump the stepover percent up, and/or the feed rate up, and have literally no issues. I have to uncover some more MDF scraps for more testing once I get the RC2 version built!"
Cannot wait to build this. Haven’t rebuilt my MPCNC since I wanted to modify it. Going this route instead!
The hardware kit for the new LR4 started selling today on Ryan's site at v1e.com! The printed parts models will likely be available on Printables.com and Thingiverse.com sometime soon, likely in the next day or two. Also, check out the new assembly documentation being worked on even as we speak: docs.v1e.com/lowrider/
I'm going to start building on release date, whenever that is. This is killer.
Wow!!! Looks good. Im almost done printing parts for my V3. When the V4 has all the bugs worked out, I'll build one of those.
That's a good plan! You can have your LR3 cutting strut plates and even aluminum XZ plates for your LR4 upgrade!
I'm all most done with my v3 as well, maybe next year I'll make the v4.
@@zosojay024 If you do, you can use your LR3 to cut parts for your LR4, namely strut plates and aluminum XZ plates. I used my full sheet capable LR3 to cut those things for my LR4 test machine! I posted a video showing the aluminum plates being cut using trochoidal milling. LR3 is a very capable machine!
Same same - finishing the final prints while watching this!
@@greenmoondog woo hoo!
I am super excited. Hurry up and make release candidate 2. :P
Will do! LOL
Impressive! I'm seriously considering the LowRider as my next project/CNC.
Cool!
Yeah 🎉! I'm almost done printing parts for my V3 and goong to buy the kit on V3 store. But I don't know if i'will have to pay import taxes buying from Europe. Thank you very much for your videos and for your Big contribution on this terrific project!
@@miguelcirc Cool! Keep us updated on your progress on the V1 Engineering forum!
Very impressive!
Great job!
Moving so fast it almost got you a few times!
Yep! Can't be distracted by anything when doing that or you're feeding your vac tip to the LR CNC beast!
Looks Strong
You bet. And my sense is I'm not even close to this thing's rigidity limits. I think I could bump the stepover percent up, and/or the feed rate up, and have literally no issues. I have to uncover some more MDF scraps for more testing once I get the RC2 version built!
cant wait
I hear you! We're moving along as best we can, but the real driving force is Ryan. He's a CNC designing machine!
Wow, can’t wait….
Excitement is building!
This new desing is awesome!, do you have plans to adapt and share the files of your also awesome tool changer?.
Thanks! In the world of CNC, tool changer usually refers to automatic tool changer. There are people who make such things in a DIY fashion. However, I don’t have one and since they require a spindle that can rotate in both directions - and most of us use trim routers that can only spin in one direction, it’s not something you’re likely to see on a V1 machine. I don’t have one, and there’s not one shown in the video. So I’m a little confused on what you are referring to.
Perhaps you are referring to the pendant dial that I am using to control the machine? If so, that is called the FluidDial pendant.
I remember watching your plasma cutter video with a very cool torch attached with magnets. Maybe I wrongly assume that was a quick tool changer for router/plasma/laser. I'm trying to keep up with your videos... sorry for that.
@@luisvegano Ah! I understand you now. Those magnets were so that if the plasma torch ever got snagged on a piece of metal that was sticking up, the torch could detach instead of being damaged. Magnetic breakaway.
@@luisvegano All the printable designs I made for the plasma based LowRider 3 are available on Printables here: www.printables.com/@design8studio/models?search=plasma
Where can we get the 3d printable files for this? The links appear to be invalid on the Low Rider CNC v4 webpage.
I tried searching on Printables and Thingiverse, but can only find version 3.
He’s working to get them posted while also working to fill orders. The first part was posted yesterday on Printables. More expected today.
Hey Doug, amazing! I know you've said its more rigid, and btw yours looks really cool. I am wondering if you are somehow able to quantify that? What material are the strut plates (hardboard?)? Can you post some pictures of the back side and closeups of the y struts on the forum? I really like that the new Y axis shield the wires and the motors, and especially the ball screw from getting dust in them.
Most everyone on the beta team has built earlier LowRiders and says they can tell by feel that this gantry is more rigid. Just by tugging on it that’s my sense. For my struts I wanted 1/4 inch thick hardboard instead of 1/8 inch. I couldn’t find 1/4 inch at my local home improvement stores but I did find that Home Depot has some 5 mm thick hardboard listed as wainscoting. I used that and it’s working great. One side of it was either primed or painted white. I faced that out, and I used my CO2 laser to engrave the Lowrider name and V1 logo and my Design8Studio shop logo. I will aim to maybe start a build thread and post some pics that are OK to share now.
Nice work. The up/down gantry works much better than the one I attempted. Is it just gravity that is holding the mechanism down?
Yep. Just gravity. But the gantry is a beefy thing. With the nice big steel EMT tubes (OD of 29.5 mm) plus the weight of the router plus the hefty printed core, plus the stepper, plus the 5mm hardboard strut plates, plus the printed braces. There's a serious amount of gravity power holding it down.
Would love to see if there was the same accuracy
I didn't think to measure. The next test (see recent video) was in Alder wood and I did design it for a test of dimensionality with assembly test.
Would you please include some upgrade options in your instructions for this build? 1. Better software and interface - I have been researching using something like Mach4 recently. 2. Closed loop motors - I am so tired of tossing out wood that was ruined by one jump in a motor that caused the remainder of the run to be off by a few millimeters. 3. Maybe L3 solved this one, but auto squaring and leveling would be pretty darn cool. I have to go through routine every time I start a project. 4. spots to put in some of those 5v laser cross hairs would be useful. 5. Adding a led light ring below the router would make seeing much better. 6. If I got real crazy, I was going to design a magnetic dust shoe that could be easily removed to change bits.
Anyway, point being. Design a base model, but then add links for all the upgrades and mods people make that you think make the cut to the directions page.
Ultimately, I want to see a $2500-ish Lowrider build take on a $30,000 commercial CNC in a cutting challenge to see if the MPCNC world can win the competition. Judging on speed, accuracy and reliability. From what I see big commercial machines use a lot of heavy, heavy steel to get the rigidity they need. All that mass, makes the motors have to be huge and expensive to move it fast. I think applying torsion box principles to the lowrider gantry with ultra light weight materials (like an airplane wing) to maximize rigidity without increasing weight would keep the motor size and cost down.
Keep up the great work!
If someone breaks the ice and uses closed loop steppers, they can no doubt provide advice for anyone else wanting to. This video’s cut, and the more recent one done in hardwood, were made with the NEMA 17 steppers getting 0.8 amps, sharp bit, no skipped steps! Closed loop steppers can be used but they are more expensive. This is not running on Marlin but rather on FluidNC firmware on the Jackpot control board bought from Ryan! If you have not checked out the FluidNC firmware with the WebU available through wifi, it's quite nice. It also supports a DIY pendant, called FluidDial, which I've built and you see that in the video! PS: I previously mentioned thinking they steppers were getting 1 amp each, but I double checked and they were using stock config amount of 0.8 amps.
@@design8studio Thanks for the info. I will definitely check that out. As for the closed loop motors, I am not sure I am using the word 'skipping' in the right context. With my L2 anytime the machine gets bogged down or maybe hits a harder spot in the wood, it tends to get out of alignment on 1 or more of the axis because the motor turned but the machine didn't move. You can hear the motors 'grinding' or whatever you want to call that very clearly. I don't think the problem is with the power of the actual motor. I would guess it comes from several different issues but the end result is one motor 'thinks' it moved the machine to a new position, but it didn't quite get it all the way there. Then every GCode command after that is off by that measurement.
@@claib4 Yes, that is exactly what the term "skipping steps" refers to. The loud snapping could easily be mistaken for the belt teeth popping from one groove on the gear pulley to another groove, but it's actually the magnets and the stater in the motor losing one "connection" and popping over to the "next" magnetic connection. The issue of skipping steps arises when the real world resistance to the commanded movement is greater than the transmitted force of the motor and geared / belted transmission assembly can muster. There are at least two ways of combatting this: increase force power of the assembly, or reduce the resistance. The resistance can be a result of a dull bit. This can be overcome by a sharp bit. The resistance also comes because the feeds and speeds were incorrect, demanding too much, and this can be overcome by correcting the feeds and speeds. On the other side of the equation, the force power of the assembly can be increased by adding more current from the drivers to the steppers, but this has a limit because it adds heat to the steppers, which beyond a certain point, can soften / melt printed plastic motor mounts. In my most recent video, in which I tested the new LR4 pre-release designated RC2, I cut hardwood successfully using 50mm/sec feed rate, a 12mm depth of cut, and the motors at only 0.8 amps of current, with my stepper motors very cool, using a sharp bit, and I had no missed steps. I repeated the test three or four times, and never had a missed step. In high school I enrolled in a gymnastics class, and the coach had a saying: "The more balance you have, the less strength you need. The less balance you have, the more strength you need." If you have a lack of balance (parlance for dull bit and / or incorrect feeds and speeds), you will need more strength (parlance for either overly hot steppers or expensive closed loop steppers). May I humbly suggest before you go for closed loop steppers, i.e. simply throwing more money at the problem in order to add more power, double check for sharp bit and for correct feeds and speeds. I paid a one-time fee for GWizard calculator for figuring my feeds and speeds, but there are free calculator tools and spreadsheets available. Getting right feeds and speeds is one of the areas of greatest challenge for hobbyist CNC makers. It is also the area of greatest fruit when it is gotten right.
@@design8studio Thank you for taking the time to give such a great answer. I honestly don't know what amperage is running to my motors but after you explanation, I definitely want to investigate that more. I could see how that could effect it now. It's been a while since I messed with a feed/speed calculator but I will check one out again. I have been just adjusting that based on if I am getting good chips or sawdust. Again, thanks for the time and sharing!!
@@claib4 Nice thing about the Jackpot, the new control board Ryan makes and sells, is the driver current is set in the config file and easy to edit. Ryan's store sells temperature gauge stickers (thermometer stickers) that are made to stick onto the stepper motors, and they let you see how hot the motors are getting. At 0.8 amps, they stay quite cool, barely warm at all. The stickers read back in both Celsius and Fahrenheit, with the Celsius being in 5 degree increments. At 0.8 amps, mine show 30 Celsius lit up. The goal is stay no higher than 45 Celsius, I think. At 1.0 amps, mine are at the 45 Celsius increment. I did the amazing speed test video (where I cut the hardwood so easily) with 0.8 amps! I later tried 1.0 amps (too hot for me), and 0.9 amps (still borderline hotter than I wanted) and finally set them to 0.85 amps, which is where I left them. Another nice thing about the Jackpot is that its firmware is FluidNC, which not only supports wifi and the web-based user interface (WebUI), but it also supports the FluidDial, a DIY pendant. I've built one of the pendants for my big full-size LowRider, and now since I will have a smaller second LowRider as a result of being on the beta test team, I am building another FluidDial, so that both LowRiders will have one. You can see me using the FluidDial in the various test cut videos.
Hey bud, are you using Jenny bits? I use 1 flute for aluminum, but 2 & 3 flutes for MDF and MDX.
The previous video was a carbide 2-flute up-cut bit, cutting MDF with a 12 mm depth of cut, but I had my RPMs too fast on the router. At least for a two flute bit it was too fast. This one was a carbide 1-flute up-cut bit.
Absolutely spectacular.... I'm a TD/Set designer at 5 local schools and I am pitching the idea of building a LowRider as a group project for the student build crews and myself. The IV speed increase will surely remove any pushback i may receive from admin regarding the tools usefulness. Do you know when it may be available in a kit form? Hoping for a complete kit (less the 3d printed parts, we can handle) We would want to build one capable of a full 4x8 sheet of material.
Cool! That would be awesome. Couple of things here. The hardware kit for the LR3 is not going to change very much to become an LR4 hardware kit. The difference comes down to just a few screws. When got into the beta team, I ordered the LR3 hardware kit to use for making the LR4 beta, totally adequate for it. The other point is ... no official date has been set yet, and I could not begin to guess at that. My general sense is that we are getting close to a final release candidate, but it's hard to say for certain. Ryan talks like we are close.
@@design8studio thank you for the fast reply! I'll keep my eyes open. I've been following you channel for a good while now and subscribed today. The mods you have made make it LR so much more complete and professional . Thank you for your contributions, R&D, and insight!
@@ArtTistic Thanks! the LR4 is so, so nice, it won't need much of anything in the way of mods, but I'm sure the community will continue to think outside the box. Ryan has been incredibly attentive to various unusual non-stock ways in which the LR3 has been used, and in support he's added features to make the LR4 able to serve, in (new) stock configurations, for more of those uses that were previously non-stock. For instance, it will support homing to the opposite side of both the short and long axes, which provides built-in support for makers like me who swap their X and Y, and/or who flip the rail to the opposite side, or both.
@@ArtTistic Thanks for the sub!
@@design8studio truly awesome improvements! I'm super excited to dive into the build. My set designing and building season has already begun for the fall shows and will likely overlap into the spring builds. That being what it is, I'd love to get as much done on the build as possible. I've stated the table design and have printed and received parts for the Fluid Dial. (will assemble that tomorrow) In regards to the Jackpot board, I was going to order it from Ryan, other than the 24v pwr supply, what additional items do I need for the board? Again thank you for producing this content and for helping the "noobs" get their footing ! Much appreciated, Doug. God Bless
Where can we get the LR 4 plans?🎉
@@shoestringlean7163 as soon as Ryan releases them publicly he will no doubt post them on printables.com
Is he V1 Engineering?
@@design8studio is Ryan V1 Engineering?
@@shoestringlean7163 Yep. Ryan is the founder of V1 Engineering and is the engineer who designs the CNC machines.
WOW!!! is this going to use the same NEMA 17 stepper motors?
Yep. The hardware, steppers, etc, are same as LR3. It's the beefier EMT tubes and beefier design that gives it extra kick.
Will it work with 22mm OSB board?
It cuts OSB easily. Depth depends on how long your bit is. Most bits are made to cut up to 25.4 mm (1”) in depth.
Will there be other tests aside of the MDF? Aluminum? Solid wood?
This is pretty much a given. Ryan's already been talking about doing test cuts in aluminum, and one of the other beta testers is planning, and suggesting to me, to cut hardwood. I've got some maple. I think I can get some aluminum scraps that are 1/4" thick.
@@design8studio looking forward to that Doug. :)
heyy doug im having an issue with my LR3 i have a 1.5k spindle its like 9lbs I'm getting alot of deflection on it in the LR4 the tubes are bigger? to avoid this?
The LR4's tube options are all bigger than the LR3's tube options. The LR4 default tube for US is 1" EMT. EMT is sold based on inside diameter, but for LowRider we are concerned about outside diameter. The 1" ID of the EMT results in an OD of 29.5mm. The other options for those outside the US include 30mm and 32mm. I think another thing that helps prevent deflection is a better material choice for strut plates. In one view, all they are is skin, so it needs to be something that resists stretching. In another view (perhaps the "over engineer to be better" view), make them thicker than skin (max is 1/4"), and of something that resists bending and twisting in addition to resisting stretching. For my smaller LR4 (seen in this video) I used 5mm thick hardboard sourced from "wainscoting" from Home Depot. I was going to use that for strut plates on my big full-size LowRider too, and it probably would be wonderful. Nevertheless, I just recently bit the bullet and ordered some 1/4" aluminum plate strips for that. Ryan says 1/8" [aluminum] would be totally fine, and no doubt he's right - he's an engineer, and I'm not. Still, since my full-size LR has a l-o-n-g gantry, I like that it will be as strong as I can get it.
@@design8studio nice i use 2 layers of 1/8 ply and resined them both together thanks for the advice
Excellent job! What's the diameter of tubing?
So depending on one's location globally, there are several tubing sizes being supported. I'm in the USA, so our choice here is 1" (ID) EMT (which is sold based on ID, even though the LowRider concern is about OD). This EMT has an OD of 29.5mm. I think a couple of other sizes being supported for international use are OD 30 mm and OD 32 mm.
Thank you @design8studio
@@design8studio Not sure if you're allowed to say, but the Y rail looks like it might be the same diameter EMT as the gantry this time around? Just trying to decide if I need to buy one or two pieces next time I'm at HD or Lowe's. I was about to hit you up with some questions on you LR3 mods, but looks like I'll just be patiently waiting for the LR4 release.
@@KeithKline Well that part does seem pretty settled, and so I think it’s OK for me to say that, yes, the EMT for the gantry and the Y rail is the same size. It is listed (at home improvement stores) as 1” EMT. That’s its inside diameter, but for LowRider we’re concerned with its outside diameter, and the OD for this EMT is 29.5 mm.
Has anyone built a 4x8 and tested the rigidity? The one you're test appears pretty short in the x. Not that plywood requires a supper rigid machine but still curious.
A couple of the other beta testers have built full size, and they are getting fantastic results. I will be eventually upgrading my full size LR3 to LR4. My full size LR3 with 25.4 mm (outside diameter) stainless steel tubes can already mill 1/4" aluminum in a single pass at a pretty quick clip, and this LR4 has bigger 29.5 mm (outside diameter) EMT galvanized steel tubes, and it is substantially more rigid. I have no doubts this thing will be a beast on both metal and hardwood.
Absolutely cannot want.
what is you acceleration set to ? 12 or 24 v ?
So, I did not alter the acceleration settings from how Ryan had them in the stock config on the 2nd Jackpot I bought new for this. It's at 200 mm/sec2. Also, Ryan ships 24v power supplies now (I think by default) on LowRider kits. Anyhow, I bought another LR3 hardware kit just for this build, and got the 24v supply.
Maravilhoso.
Have you tested the speed on harder wood or even metal ?
Not yet, but it's in the works. Ryan's already been talking about doing test cuts in aluminum, and one of the other beta testers is planning, and suggesting to me, to cut hardwood. I've got some maple. I think I can get some aluminum scraps that are 1/4" thick.
I'm having trouble with melamine board on LR3. Really slow, rather rippled cuts and loses steps quite easily.
About 4-5 hours for a simple 18mm full 4x8 sheet cabinet.
The LR4 looks promissing, but I'm sceptic. Nema23 motors now?
Hmm. Maybe the bit is the dull or the feeds and speeds are not correct? It definitely sounds like something is not right because you should get better performance than that. Are you using some type of an online reference for your feeds and speeds calculations? I purchased a Calculator tool, but there are free spreadsheet tables available. If a bit is dull it makes a huge problem.
Also, another thing to check is whether or not all of your grub screws are tight. Did you put thread locker on all your grub screws? The problem you’re describing is pretty common with loose grub screws.
@@design8studio What are the grub screws?
What is the eta?
No official date has been set yet. Ryan talks like we are close.
I'm anxious. Thanks for all the work.
I've never seen such a jogwheel. What is that?
That's the FluidDial pendant, designed by the same developers that make the FluidNC firmware! wiki.fluidnc.com/en/hardware/official/M5Dial_Pendant
Just as I’m halfway through printing LR3 parts *sigh*
Build the LR3 and get comfortable with it and then you could use it to cut hardboard strut plates and aluminum XZ plates to upgrade to a Lowrider v4! The hardware kit for the v3 and v4 versions are almost identical- only a difference of a few screws.