I think this video highlights Rey's issues so greatly...its not that she is impossibly strong, its that the strength is never properly used to challenge her morals. Its perfectly fine to be OP in Star Wars, but it has to serve a purpose.
Edit: Also Finn's ark was the saddest bastardisation of a good arc in modern cinema. So much could have come from that conflict alone, and it was absolutely wasted.
The people that ran the concentration camps had loving families. Hitler himself was courteous employer to the people around him. Being nice does not equate being good.
Rey being greeted by a loving and adoring grandfather is a beautiful touch, and is one of the best ideas I have ever heard. I felt tears welling up in my eyes listening to you describe the story, because it's so powerful for Rey's character; and your editing skills are fantastic! I think this would make Palpatine trying to steal Rey's body, vastly more sinister, and poignant. I imagined it all like Rey is Coraline, and Palpatine is Other Mother(if you have seen Coraline, which I highly recommend). I literally thought of all the other Palpatines(cousins) as secret meat puppets created in horrific experiments and the like; cause that would be PERFECT for Palpatine's villainous character. I love your work dude. Keep it up! You got another excited subscriber today!
I appreciate underscoring the point by taking pains to change things minimally. In keeping with spirit and to bounce off your argument, it may have added something to the films if Rey's behavior begin mirroring ol' Palpy. Finding a surrogate or blood family gives her character reason to act with aggression, manipulation, rage, paranoia, suspicion, and hatred toward non-family. We could see those behaviors sneaking into her character as she develop and changes over the course of a negative arc. Three films gives plenty of room to sew the seeds of some manipulation additionally, something which could pay off in her betrayal of former allies. This would give her cunning as well as power, two traits that define the Emperor throughout the films. She could lay the trap and be the snap, while being manipulated herself. I also notice how such a betrayal juxtaposes Luke's "faith in [his] friends." Great stuff as always!
Palpy, Palpy, Palpy! It’s always Palpatine! Why not have Snoke be the main antagonist and be replaced by General Hux where he becomes the Chancellor of the First Order and the galaxy
And Snoke is a Sith cultist, where he used to be a disciple of Palpatine and wanted to resurrect but decided to destroy his cloning pod and decided to bring forth his own emoire
Haven't' even finished the video yet to say that MAN, I would have forgiven SO many sins in that trilogy if they went with your idea. But disney gonna be disney.
I feel like Rey could have joined Kylo Ren in episode 8. This was a miss opportunity that should have happened. Rey joining Kylo Ren would have been something new and subvert expectations. it would have made the character more realistic, and a lot more people would have been left in eager anticipation for episode 9. Every single mention of Jedi during the trailers of the Force Awakens always cut to Finn so Rey being the Jedi made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Using the bait and switch was stupid. Jedi Finn should have been used, and even in your concept, it could have worked.
The first video on ray where I understand why me and many others dont connect with her. Most other critics just say 'woke' or 'female agenda', great vid
I feel like Finn could have a bit more of a presence here, cause in TFA movie, Finn went out of his way with Han and Chewie to _rescue_ Rey. Finn literally fought to _protect_ Rey against Kylo. He, as far as Rey knew at that point, basically _died_ for Rey. Rey should have a lot of love for Finn (romantic or familial), the person who pulled her away from Jakku in the first place. But, alas, Disney didn't really know what they were doing and squandered Finn as a character and his presence in the overall story.
Hey thanks for giving me back the keys to finding my way back to the heart of the films that molded my mythological and archetypal framework. Good work!
I like the idea of Rey being greeted by a loving grandfather, that would really work if done right. The part where Palpatine manages to create these fictional environments for Rey, could also work as the way he manipulated Luke, post mortem, to the point Luke had his lightsaber above his nephew and he felt to need to go into exile, since this situation is clearly dangerous to his friends. Ben shouldn't die though imo. From a real-world perspective: he was/is the best the sequels had to offer and he is the last one who can continue the Skywalker lineage (sort of). From in-universe perspective. Being evil and dying a martyr is rather easy and has already been done. Having to live with your sins seems much, much harder. It would be totally justified to have the last scenes going full-circle with Ben going to a place like Tatooine to hide. That makes sense to me, whereas with Rey it definitely felt forced.
Whoever is in charge of future Star wars projects NEEDS TO HIRE YOU. You are beyond talented in creating very captivating and immersive world/story building. You need to be a asset to the Star wars world especially since George Lucas has left and all fans dearly miss Lucas arts and are already so tired of Disneys "attempts" at this. Star wars needs you! The Force is strong within you!
You've changed my feelings on the Sequels. I once thought they were completely unredeemable, now I see they were close to greatness and a great story could still be told in the world they created.
Okay, this is my exact head canon for the sequels. I really loved all the cast and their performances from these movies and I love the characters as a whole, I just wish that their journeys met more satisfying arcs. Great video!
When watching TLJ for the first time I honestly thought Rey would turn to the Dark Side because it had been set up earlier in the film. During her time with Luke, she was never afraid of the Dark Side and in fact actively went towards it because "it wanted to show me something" When she declined Kylo's offer I was disappointed because it would've been interesting and actually "subverted expectations" with one of the lead characters. After watching this video I'm now even more disappointed because of how it could've tied all three trilogies together as well as the new hindsight of Palpatine being brought back. It would've been perfect because of her constantly wanting a family! Anyways, fantastic series. Just discovered it and has given me yet another way to watch Star Wars, it was also simply a well edited & put together video series.
This is by my favorite my favorite rendition of how Episode 9 and the “conclusion” of the Skywalker Saga should’ve played out, even if we all know that was Return of the Jedi. Love how much you factored in, and played off of, the themes of the OT and Prequels when devising both Rey and Ben’s arcs. Brilliant stuff here man
It would be an interesting subversion of the two previous trilogies to have a protag defined by a LACK of compassion and her arc being FINDING that compassion. Also, i think snoke could've been an interesting character; a character defined by the Karmic balance of the force rather than the cosmic balance; he'd be defined by tempting Ben through telling him since the light has risen, dark has to rise; ben would think that his only way to live up to his family legacy is through feeding the dichotomy (this would also criticize SW fans who think balance of the force is a scale). This would feed into the idea briefly touched on that he's "tempted by the light".
My hot take is that the sequel trilogy should've focused on this divergence between the living force and the cosmic force; how the Whills "control" fate and how players like snoke and ben try to control fate on thier terms.
Damn... we were this close to greatness... I would've enjoyed the sequels if it turned out this way. It literally rhymes, the whole triple trilogy rhymes and has an elegant harmony. Instead we got a rhyme-ender in real life tho..😢
feeling so fucking validated rn because literally /in the theatre/ after seeing The Force Awakens, I said aloud, "If Rey doesn't become evil, and Kylo Ren doesn't become good, then I give up on Star Wars."
Interestingly, after I came out of the theater when we watched this movie with my family, this is exactly the same arc we discussed would have been a good path for the movie It was so obvious, I'm disappointed it didn't happen
I always thought Ben solo should have been on a Zuko like arc from avatar, except with him either killing or dying to Rey. The winner being the one who turns to the light side after dark side mistakes. Either way great videos man, just found your stuff and binged it all. Thank you for your work and care.
Beautiful! It should have then included the line "I am the padawan of Leia Skywalker Organa Solo" where Rey claims her symbolic family over the one offered by Palpatine. Would have been epic, tied back in with the prequels, and made the name make sense in the last scene. Her seeing Anakin's Force ghost help her avoid the same mistake he once made would have been so cool
giving Rey a reason to turn to the Dark side would have made it so much better... After watching the prequels I no longer had any reason to think Luke could have possibly turned to the Dark side, but by then it was all Anakin's story anyway
This is an amazing series of video essays, and I'd recomment anyone else who enjoys them watch rick worley's star wars videos. They're incredible and touch on some of the same ideas.
It's incredible how so many "mere youtubers", which is not meant as an insult but a reflection of how people see things, manage to craft a better story/outline for the sequels depite the lack of funds. Disney, with their deep pockets, could get the best writers on earth but would rather diversity hires than good creators. It's deeply frustrating. That said, I'm glad I discovered this channel. I watched the Anakin video beforehand and jumped to this one out of curiosity. Imma watch the one about Luke after I give you my sub. Cheers from France! 🍻
I really hope this video blows up one day because the way you pick apart and explain some of the salient themes of Star Wars is truly masterful. I have always considered the 2 George Lucas trilogies to be thematically complete on their own , but this video has enlightened me to the how a correctly-executed sequel trilogy could explore those themes in nuanced and rich ways. Bravo, man, keep up the great work. :)
Subbed. Love this take. I too would have loved to see version of the story. It feels almost as if they were leading up to this, but the core meaning of the story was lost when the directors switch for episode 8 (which is why 8 felt the most out of place). I also can’t help but think that a female protagonist turning evil and then getting saved by a martyr male character doesn’t fit well with disney’s woke values.
While I whole heartily agree this would have been infinitely better than whatever the hell we got, if we're going based on what we had, Anakin's Force Ghost should have showed up and destroyed Palpatine. The moment Ben and Rey get knocked down, he shows up and finishes the job once and for all. Since Rian Johnson established (badly) that force ghosts can actually interact with the physical world, there's no reason why Anakin, the chosen one, would allow Palpatine to mass murder everyone with his lightning. He needs to finish what he started all those years ago. It's not right that Rey comes completely out of left field and takes Anakin's story that has been built up for literal decades.
The prophecy is unironically one of the worst bits of star wars canon. As long as the force exists, people will use it for bad things, and the dark side will always come back in some way
That's the greatest palpatine return you just described, maybe even. Palpatine appears to rey pretty, because of force mind trick or something. Dracula-esque, and palpatine must drink blood and eat people to sustain his life. Dark sider. That's because truly dark sider soul (force aspect) that would otherwise be long dead and not even a force ghost, would requires devouring flesh to sustain its existence, either its host or the others.
It says a lot how hyped I was to watch Ben Solo run into the fire for Rey and how I felt nothing watching Rey destroy the emperor. They wasted so much time with all the MacGuffins. Even the relationship between Kylo and Rey, which was one thing both TLJ and TFA did well, was mostly static until the ocean fight. In the two earlier movies, every scene they were in together progressed the dynamic of their relationship- it was the strongest thing about the trilogy by far. So if Rey had to be a Palpatine, then your plot would have been a good way to give it some meaning and give her character some kind of arc and closure. Except ben should have survived somehow (Palpatine did it) and they should have rid off into the sunset as very decidedly NOT siblings, symbolic or otherwise 😉. In all seriousness though, imo one of the greatest sins of this trilogy was setting up Rey, the protagonist, as this deeply lonely character, giving her a soul bond with the one character that seemed to understand her (though obviously they couldn't nurture that bond while on opposite sides of a war and philosophical divide), and then killing him immediately once he made his way back to her. In the novelization, after he dies, she says she feels her other half was ripped away. She ends the trilogy burying the memory of her mentors/surrogate family, once again alone in a desert with ghosts. If the external world in Star Wars is symbolic of the inner world of the characters as I think it is, that's bleak.
Personally I feel they had sooo much available for what could have been an insanley great saga even with all the characters in their pocket. Personally, I feel Finn shouldve been the protagonist, There was sooo much potential of him to become a Jedi and look to both sides of seeing Rey and Kylo struggle with siding with the force. Couldve opened up a whole new unopened can that couldve delivered something soo fresh and new to uncover with the force itself. Couldve also kept Lukes Jedi academy fresh and somewhat still new with it being the theme of the whole first 2 episodes.
Rey could have had a Wanda Maximoff type arc. A good person and hero at her core, but willing to do evil things just to have a family. We could have seen Star Wars do something similar with Rey where her longing to have good things, such as her own family and not being lonely anymore, is what takes her to the dark side.
Great ideas for making a coherent and good sequels. Also, I think Palpatine should not be back in body, but only in soul. Maybe Force Ghosts from the Dark Side are weaker but can possess a body and regain their strength, and she starts telling Palpatine that he can possess her, but utlimetely, after seeing Palpatine kill Kylo Ren, she realizes how much evil that would do, and turns back to the light side.
I remember loving the sequence of the force awakens to the last jedi. Those movies weren't perfect, but I loved the themes they were implementing (other than finn in TLA). When I walked out from ROS, I felt empty by comparison, and this video illustrated why to me. Ben finished his arc (kinda), but Rey didn't.
Thanks for watching! Find me on Letterboxd letterboxd.com/jeshuam/ Instagram instagram.com/josh_from_xboxlive Patreon patreon.com/Josh_from_xbolive Twitter twitter.com/josh_from_xbox
A long time ago in a galaxy not that far away, I engaged in an in depth discussion about how Lucas may have structured and written his sequels based on the methods he used in the previous trilogies and based on what he himself has said. We concluded (among many other things) that there would have been TWO grandchildren of Han and Leia - a proto Ben Solo and a proto Rey. Similar to what you've mentioned here about there being a synthesis between the thesis and antithesis, we thought that it would make most sense that the grandson would fall to the dark side (mirroring Anakins fall) while the granddaughter would continue on the path of good (mirroring Lukes rise).
"The Rise of Skywalker, lacked the Fall of Palpatine" actually perfect. AS you said, all the elements for a cohesive a good story was there, yet it was thrown away due to a lack of emotional attachment to the story and franchise as a whole. Loved this series videos man.
Rey was feral and had to think only about herself and her survival. It would’ve been interesting if they characterized her as very intelligent but without speaking much, as if she hadn’t really acquired much of a vocabulary or social skills due to her isolation. Maybe Han reaches for something and sees its gone and Rey is running away with it. They try to teach her the value of friendship and it seems like she learned that lesson in the first film, but in her mind it’s twisted; friends can be used. She meets Luke and it seems like she’s on the right path, but then they talk and she maybe says something like, “well why should I care about the Rebels or the galaxy, I just want to find my family.” He basically tells her, with great power comes great responsibility but she does not get it. She didn’t sign up for any of this and is still selfishly motivated, which makes complete sense. Why would a scavenger be altruistic? There was so much they could’ve done with the symbolism of her being a vulture; she’s a leech, she got whatever she wanted or needed from the protagonists and then left to find Papa Palpatine. Anakin/Vader had skewed morals but still felt love and loyalty; Rey doesn’t care about anything or anyone else because she just can’t. Despite everything else she can do and how much power she has, she’s emotionally stunted. There’s never been a character like that in Star Wars and it would’ve been so interesting, but Disney had to keep it vanilla and she had to be a hero from beginning to end.
Cosmonaut variety hour did something similar, but instead he had Ben survive and have to live with his mistakes. It’s a subversion of the OT where Luke turned Vader to the Light and Vader sacrificed himself, Rey turns Ben to the light and sacrifices herself. In too many movies do redemption arcs finish with self sacrifice. Instead it finishes with him having to atone for his mistakes for the rest of his life.
would you be willing to do videos on the original expanded universe works, such as the Post Endor Trilogies, for example: Dark Empire, Thrawn Trilogy, Corellian Trilogy, Black Fleet Crisis, Callista Trilogy, Dark Nest, etc.
I've heard good things about those works but it's really not where my interest lies. I'm a cinephile and I love George Lucas as an artist and filmmaker. I'm not particularly attached to Star Wars outside of the 6 saga films.
@@josh_from_xboxlive You should play the two Knights of the Old Republic games. They are unbelievably good stories that REALLY make the movies better by giving a more in depth philosophy and mirrored, yet inversed, themes. They are very cinematic, but the majority of the shots are done in the "shot reverse shot" for dialogue; but there is some of the best character and mythological examinations of Star Wars in those games. Also, the combat system is basically just a cinematic DnD game. It shows it's age a bit, but everything holds together amazingly well; as the story, myth, characters, and universe, are what take center stage. I think you would be blown away by the depth of the storytelling, and of the love of the original Star Wars in these games. The first game is like playing through the OG Trilogy, and the second is like playing through the prequels(so, it's better written, plotted, and characterized, but a bit janky on the execution). If you get the chance, I think you would love these games enough to feel compelled to make a video on them. I adore the original Star Wars movies, but these game's stories and characters have actually superceded the OG films for Mme as the most important Star Wars content. I don't say that easily either, as I am a HUGE prequel trilogy fan; and I recognize a brother in this from your: "does Anakin have a character arc?" video. We are both nerds that ADORED So Uncivilized's "Palpatine is the GOAT" video. The Prequels are not as well paced, the dialogue is more pretentiously flowery and wooden, most of the dialogue is just long diatribe expositing, and there's so much story happening that it feels like somethings are missing(The Clone Wars), but the Prequels are just this amazing tapestry of character, heart, mystery, nuance, subtlety, worldbuilding, cinematic excellence, political intrigue, and the most masterful manipulation and villainy EVER, put to screen. Yet, I feel these games, top that. The games are about exploring the politics of Star Wars first hand, and seeing a complete picture of the impact made by these "Main Characters" in Star Wars. Simultaneously giving you a power-fantasy, while demonstrating the far-reaching consequences of ACTUALLY ACHIEVING these epic mythological power-fantasies; And all while giving you a plucky band of unlikely heroes to save, or destroy, the galaxy with. The primary antagonist of the second game is equal to Palpatine in Mmy book. That, Sith Lord, is not exemplified in their villainy, but in their ability to change your mind; and open your perspective. The, Knights of the Old Republic games, are insanely beloved, for a reason. So, I implore you as a fellow Star Wars nerd, check out these games.
@@josh_from_xboxlive thats suck an odd take. 1-2 are mediocre movies, and 6 isnt that great either. The best starwars content ever written lies outside of lucas. Kotor 1-2, andor, clone wars, all much better than lucas' own written works.
That Rey wants family so desperately, but discovers her only blood relation is a monster, not living up to her idealized fantasy of family, and rejects him, finding her companionship instead in other places, is what makes her arc. I like your ideas, they are compelling if not more so, and the trilogy was flawed, but I think it worked on some level.
I think I’m one of the few people that genuinely didn’t want Kylo to be redeemed. I even hate the idea of Rey and Ben switching sides halfway through the Trilogy, as it comes across as far worse “Subverting Expectations” than what The Last Jedi did (debatable, as Luke’s character was terrible in more ways than one). Heck I say the problem is that Kylo didn’t go far enough in the Darth Vader worship, Adam Driver even said that he was told that Kylo was essentially going to start the Trilogy conflicted on which side he’s on, and ends it fully embracing the Dark Side, a reverse of Darth Vader right there. And Adam went into every movie with that exact mindset, even when they didn’t do it at all.
The Last Jedi was where the whole thing went off the rails...Snoke needed to survive and be revealed as a fallen clone of Palpatine - seeking a new powerful Force user to achieve the very immortality that Anakin sought in the prequels. Rey finding and training with Luke should have been central to the plot and pacing of the film. Canto Bight and the whole side plot with the ridiculous chase, (including the salt that turns red to show you that its not REALLY a complete Hoth rip-off) should have been sacrificed for a chase of Kylo Ren going after Finn, Poe and Leia. The build-up should have been to an ambiguous ending (a la Empire) where the film ends with Kylo reverting to Ben Solo in an effort to free/save Leia and Finn (sacrificing Poe in the process) and Rey should reject Luke's teachings and demand more power from the Dark Side by seeking out Snoke in an inversion of the reason Luke left Yoda in Empire. With an episode 8 cliffhanger to ponder, the run up to Epsiode 9 would have been MUCH different as well. An opening scene for episode 9, with the force ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan telling Luke of what is happening to Rey and convincing him that Ben Solo is fighting to overcome Kylo Ren and return to the light would set-up the path for a truly epic third film: Leia would sacrifice herself early on (when Rey finds her and confronts her angrily after rejecting Luke's teachings). In a rage, Rey turns on Leia and strikes her down instead of coming back to the light. Snoke, manipulating Rey into killing Leia from her subconscious mind would mirror what he did to Kylo Ren, but instead of turning back and seeking redemption (the Ben Solo arc), Rey would become the true villain of the third trilogy, revealing that she choses to seek ultimate power by turning on and killing Snoke. This leads to a need to reconcile Ben and Luke; where Luke completes Ben's training (in echoes of what he tried to teach Rey in the previous episode) and in advance of a final confrontation with Rey, who has now become a truly powerful Sith. The threat to the universe does not need "Death Star tech" on Star Destroyers, or an armada of ships somehow all finding their way beyond the outer rim instantly, or the weirdo chanting Sith crowd in a bizarre Romanesque Arena. The threat is evil overcoming good, the power of redemption. Much as Qui Gon was killed by Maul, Luke would fall to Rey and Ben would have to confront the final choice alone - give in to his dark impulses and desires once more or struggle to stay in the light and defeat Rey. Obviously, that's just spit-balling an idea to make the trilogy echo the previous ones and add something to the sacrifices of Han, Leia and Luke throughout, but I really like the idea of Kylo Ren and Rey having mirrored paths - one starting as the presumed hero and the other as the villain, only to see them cross destinies and meet in a final show down. It could also be that Luke would face and defeat Snoke before falling to Rey to really amp the stakes of that final confrontation. Clearly lots of holes...but I wish we would have seen something more true to the spirit of Star Wars than what Disney shat out at us...
My hope was in The Last Jedi, Ben and Rey would throw off both the Sith and Jedi and form a new, neutral group. It would have been a great opportunity to make the sequel trilogy not just a remake of the previous ones. They had the perfect opportunity, after the throne room fight, but they squandered it.
To be honest, I think it would never have worked. Anakin is the chosen one. he brought balance to the force, that's end of story. U can have a tv series about Leia and Luke consolidating the republic and building a new jedi order but nothing worth 2 hrs.
Ultimately I agree with this; Return of the Jedi closed the circle that opened in Phantom Menace. That said, these movies didn't need to be so dang bad...
We are told , but not shown. He already risks his life and throws away everything he's ever known in order to help Poe and the resistance right away. He then risks his life to help the resistance at the end of Force Awakens... His arc is all over the place.
@@josh_from_xboxlive No his goal, protecting Rey, just coincided with the resistance’s objectives at those times. Which is why he has to explain it to others in the movies who assume he’s committed like them.
@@martoto77 I see that his goal is to protect Rey in Last Jedi, but at the start of Force Awakens he hasn't even met her yet. Moreover, he's not protecting Rey when he decides to leave her entirely in the middle of Force Awakens. He's just a poorly written characters who's motivation keeps changing
@@josh_from_xboxlive He leaves her safely in the hands of war hero, General Solo. And they are about to link up with Resistance who are in a fight with the FO he wants no part of. (Plus it has forced him to reveal to her that he was a stormtrooper, no a “big deal in the resistance”, which he assumes means the end of any honeymoon period of friendship) But then Rey is captured by the FO meaning he has a fight with them whether he likes it or not. And so the Resistance becomes his ally in that fight.
The double turn would have been an incredible plot twist. Having Kylo Ren become the Hero and Rey become the villain would have been a genius move if they executed it correctly. but alas woke Hollywood would never let a woman be a villain and a white male be the hero.
This has nothing to do with the movie, but in Rebels, Palpatine does the exact same thing with Ezra, he shows him his dead parents calling to him and looking for him, he also shows his old self without the electricity burn marks on him
All the Disney Star Wars movie suck. Whether it is the sequels or the spin off movies. They are no way as good as the original trilogy or Revenge of the Sith.
I feel like this gotten to weirdly anti Rose territory, and i just wanna let be stated that her arc in TLJ is literally about family, belonging, and what drives us! They just failed to expand on it because JJ Abrams didn’t want to write a story for a character he didn’t create
Wholeheartedly agree with this except for one point. Rather than Kylo sacrificing himself for Rey, both him and Rey help heal the stab wound on his body and both of them takes on Sheev. As Palpatine uses clones to survive, there's no reason why he would be weaker than he was back in ROTS so they would be outmatched with either Rey or Ben having to sacrifice themself to give an opening for the other to stab through. Rey dying here would mean ending the bloodline that has been the source of the galaxy's suffering. Ben dying here would mean atoning for his mistakes and becoming one with his family. Or we can have both survive but Ben has to go his own path as he feels responsible for the death of his parents and that the Republic will not accept him. Rey defeating Palpatine alone undermines the stakes that Palpatine carries considering that unlike Palpatine, she lacks the experience and hurts her reputation being Mary Sue.
The fundamental problem that I see in almost every hypothetical rewrite or outline of a Star Wars sequel I see is the fact that Finn is NEVER in the final act, especially not with Rey. Finn is never seen able to exact EVEN THE SENSE of revenge on the people, and the cult, that stole not only his, but all storm troopers' childhoods from them. Rey & Finn already have a close friendship that isn't even founded on their respective lack of family, and it's that, that could make their relationship even stronger, even if it isn't romantic. Why does everyone want Kylo Ren to take Finn's place. I was correctably one of the people that wanted to see Ren turn to the light, but that was only through the writing decisions that happened to make it to the final cut. I never wanted to see any other Disney villain be redeemed, just him. And its because Ren is written to be redeemed, but au contraire, be a very personal villain to both Finn AND Rey. If I were to rewrite Ep.7-9, I would have Ren killed by Rey on Starkiller base, and have Finn train (with on of those cool electric batons) with Rey. They'd share a conflict in Ep.8; Finn disapproves of Rey's false need to have a blood related family, and Rey makes a point that Finn never have a family that wasn't brainwashed by the First Order. Rey searches for the closest family she would otherwise have, Snoke. End on a low note of the relationship, and come back with her as a Sith in the political service of Snoke, but refusing the orders to kill anyone in the Resistance. Finn trains and fights in service of the Resistance, but refuses to kill the storm troopers. Feeling restricted in all of her will, Rey tries to leave the First Order (sending a message to Finn) but is held back by the entire Order. Finn, last second, comes to help Rey get away from Snoke, but Rey chooses to rid the galaxy of Snoke once and for all. The protagonists' relationship stronger than ever, after realizing that the conflict they shared was in the favor of Snoke (who im going to say was dropped as an unspoken apprentice of Darth Plagueis) who needed a new apprentice in turn to run the galaxy and spread his misery to live on through the suffering of the force. They kill him and give freedom of the galaxy once more. Rey stays a sith, using the powers and code of one, but only to aid the galaxy itself. In an epilogue, Rey as a wonderer (sorta like Ahsoka), Finn by her side as an equal, and Poe as the leader of the republic. I know ALL of this would need ironing out, but writing a movie trillogy script in an hour just to make a point in a RUclips comment section is mentally draining.
It’s disappointing that you gave such nuanced looks at Anakin and Luke but with this you’re, by the get go, thinking about fixing things. It’s a very good analysis and the idea you propose is very good, but the tone you employ here feels a little Off to me
Unfortunately this is a disney film: i.e. The white man cant be the hero and the strong female character cannot be a villain. It’s their agenda. What you’ve suggested is pure art. What disney makes ispropaganda
I think this video highlights Rey's issues so greatly...its not that she is impossibly strong, its that the strength is never properly used to challenge her morals. Its perfectly fine to be OP in Star Wars, but it has to serve a purpose.
Edit: Also Finn's ark was the saddest bastardisation of a good arc in modern cinema. So much could have come from that conflict alone, and it was absolutely wasted.
The people that ran the concentration camps had loving families. Hitler himself was courteous employer to the people around him. Being nice does not equate being good.
Rey being greeted by a loving and adoring grandfather is a beautiful touch, and is one of the best ideas I have ever heard. I felt tears welling up in my eyes listening to you describe the story, because it's so powerful for Rey's character; and your editing skills are fantastic! I think this would make Palpatine trying to steal Rey's body, vastly more sinister, and poignant.
I imagined it all like Rey is Coraline, and Palpatine is Other Mother(if you have seen Coraline, which I highly recommend). I literally thought of all the other Palpatines(cousins) as secret meat puppets created in horrific experiments and the like; cause that would be PERFECT for Palpatine's villainous character.
I love your work dude. Keep it up! You got another excited subscriber today!
The Coraline analogy is perfect! And that movie is a masterpiece.
Extremely self centered story Star Wars is bigger than that
This video is criminally underrated
I appreciate underscoring the point by taking pains to change things minimally.
In keeping with spirit and to bounce off your argument, it may have added something to the films if Rey's behavior begin mirroring ol' Palpy. Finding a surrogate or blood family gives her character reason to act with aggression, manipulation, rage, paranoia, suspicion, and hatred toward non-family. We could see those behaviors sneaking into her character as she develop and changes over the course of a negative arc.
Three films gives plenty of room to sew the seeds of some manipulation additionally, something which could pay off in her betrayal of former allies. This would give her cunning as well as power, two traits that define the Emperor throughout the films. She could lay the trap and be the snap, while being manipulated herself.
I also notice how such a betrayal juxtaposes Luke's "faith in [his] friends."
Great stuff as always!
Really great points, love it. Thanks for watching!
Palpy, Palpy, Palpy! It’s always Palpatine! Why not have Snoke be the main antagonist and be replaced by General Hux where he becomes the Chancellor of the First Order and the galaxy
And Snoke is a Sith cultist, where he used to be a disciple of Palpatine and wanted to resurrect but decided to destroy his cloning pod and decided to bring forth his own emoire
@@jamestolbert1856 Or a death star.
Bro... You have some REALLY top notch Star Wars content!! Can't wait to see how far your RUclips grows.. Keep it up because I'm loving it!!
Haven't' even finished the video yet to say that MAN, I would have forgiven SO many sins in that trilogy if they went with your idea. But disney gonna be disney.
Yea this man cooks
Maybe it would’ve been better
But no Palpatine! His death is symbolic to the finale of the Originals and Prequels and bringing him back contradict all of that
I would’ve loved to see George Lucas Sequel Trilogy better cause he had a plan and a vision and needed help to do it
@@jamestolbert1856he literally sold star wars because he figured the fan asr would hate anything he put out
I feel like Rey could have joined Kylo Ren in episode 8. This was a miss opportunity that should have happened. Rey joining Kylo Ren would have been something new and subvert expectations. it would have made the character more realistic, and a lot more people would have been left in eager anticipation for episode 9. Every single mention of Jedi during the trailers of the Force Awakens always cut to Finn so Rey being the Jedi made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Using the bait and switch was stupid. Jedi Finn should have been used, and even in your concept, it could have worked.
Good job. It felt like a natural build up to ep7 and 8. It is strange it wasn't done that way, especially as it is almost hinted at !
The first video on ray where I understand why me and many others dont connect with her. Most other critics just say 'woke' or 'female agenda', great vid
I feel like Finn could have a bit more of a presence here, cause in TFA movie, Finn went out of his way with Han and Chewie to _rescue_ Rey. Finn literally fought to _protect_ Rey against Kylo. He, as far as Rey knew at that point, basically _died_ for Rey. Rey should have a lot of love for Finn (romantic or familial), the person who pulled her away from Jakku in the first place. But, alas, Disney didn't really know what they were doing and squandered Finn as a character and his presence in the overall story.
It drives me crazy that individuals in the SW fandom are THIS much better at story telling than Disney.
It doesn’t surprise me though; that so many individuals are this much better at writing and outlining a story than JJ Abrams 😅
Bro you are cooking
Hey thanks for giving me back the keys to finding my way back to the heart of the films that molded my mythological and archetypal framework. Good work!
I like the idea of Rey being greeted by a loving grandfather, that would really work if done right.
The part where Palpatine manages to create these fictional environments for Rey, could also work as the way he manipulated Luke, post mortem, to the point Luke had his lightsaber above his nephew and he felt to need to go into exile, since this situation is clearly dangerous to his friends.
Ben shouldn't die though imo.
From a real-world perspective: he was/is the best the sequels had to offer and he is the last one who can continue the Skywalker lineage (sort of).
From in-universe perspective. Being evil and dying a martyr is rather easy and has already been done. Having to live with your sins seems much, much harder. It would be totally justified to have the last scenes going full-circle with Ben going to a place like Tatooine to hide. That makes sense to me, whereas with Rey it definitely felt forced.
Loved your arc breakdown series!
Whoever is in charge of future Star wars projects NEEDS TO HIRE YOU. You are beyond talented in creating very captivating and immersive world/story building. You need to be a asset to the Star wars world especially since George Lucas has left and all fans dearly miss Lucas arts and are already so tired of Disneys "attempts" at this. Star wars needs you! The Force is strong within you!
Dude, you're awesome 👏👏 You just earned yourself a subscriber 🤝
Really incredible vid, man. I loved your ideas. After hearing you lay it all out, it just seems so obvious, this is clearly what they should have done
You've changed my feelings on the Sequels. I once thought they were completely unredeemable, now I see they were close to greatness and a great story could still be told in the world they created.
Okay, this is my exact head canon for the sequels. I really loved all the cast and their performances from these movies and I love the characters as a whole, I just wish that their journeys met more satisfying arcs. Great video!
When watching TLJ for the first time I honestly thought Rey would turn to the Dark Side because it had been set up earlier in the film. During her time with Luke, she was never afraid of the Dark Side and in fact actively went towards it because "it wanted to show me something"
When she declined Kylo's offer I was disappointed because it would've been interesting and actually "subverted expectations" with one of the lead characters.
After watching this video I'm now even more disappointed because of how it could've tied all three trilogies together as well as the new hindsight of Palpatine being brought back. It would've been perfect because of her constantly wanting a family!
Anyways, fantastic series. Just discovered it and has given me yet another way to watch Star Wars, it was also simply a well edited & put together video series.
This is by my favorite my favorite rendition of how Episode 9 and the “conclusion” of the Skywalker Saga should’ve played out, even if we all know that was Return of the Jedi. Love how much you factored in, and played off of, the themes of the OT and Prequels when devising both Rey and Ben’s arcs. Brilliant stuff here man
Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic! Well done! It’s a shame that no one at Disney had the same forethought you’ve been able to display here.
your videos are amazing and you deserve a million subscribers.
It would be an interesting subversion of the two previous trilogies to have a protag defined by a LACK of compassion and her arc being FINDING that compassion.
Also, i think snoke could've been an interesting character; a character defined by the Karmic balance of the force rather than the cosmic balance; he'd be defined by tempting Ben through telling him since the light has risen, dark has to rise; ben would think that his only way to live up to his family legacy is through feeding the dichotomy (this would also criticize SW fans who think balance of the force is a scale). This would feed into the idea briefly touched on that he's "tempted by the light".
My hot take is that the sequel trilogy should've focused on this divergence between the living force and the cosmic force; how the Whills "control" fate and how players like snoke and ben try to control fate on thier terms.
Damn... we were this close to greatness... I would've enjoyed the sequels if it turned out this way. It literally rhymes, the whole triple trilogy rhymes and has an elegant harmony. Instead we got a rhyme-ender in real life tho..😢
It took him eleven minutes to make the sequel trilogy better then Disney ever could. Excellent work
feeling so fucking validated rn because literally /in the theatre/ after seeing The Force Awakens, I said aloud, "If Rey doesn't become evil, and Kylo Ren doesn't become good, then I give up on Star Wars."
This channel is really something else! Very refreshing! Feels like the first time I watched these movies with my dad.
'Cohere'; I learned a new word, thankyou 🙏🙏🙏🙏
they were so close!!
Interestingly, after I came out of the theater when we watched this movie with my family, this is exactly the same arc we discussed would have been a good path for the movie
It was so obvious, I'm disappointed it didn't happen
I always thought Ben solo should have been on a Zuko like arc from avatar, except with him either killing or dying to Rey. The winner being the one who turns to the light side after dark side mistakes. Either way great videos man, just found your stuff and binged it all. Thank you for your work and care.
“It’s like poetry, it rhymes.”
Beautiful! It should have then included the line "I am the padawan of Leia Skywalker Organa Solo" where Rey claims her symbolic family over the one offered by Palpatine. Would have been epic, tied back in with the prequels, and made the name make sense in the last scene. Her seeing Anakin's Force ghost help her avoid the same mistake he once made would have been so cool
people might have been mad about Anakin's Force ghost not looking like Sebastian Shaw but people are always mad about that
giving Rey a reason to turn to the Dark side would have made it so much better... After watching the prequels I no longer had any reason to think Luke could have possibly turned to the Dark side, but by then it was all Anakin's story anyway
All these videos do is make me so depressed thinking about what we actually got
This is an amazing series of video essays, and I'd recomment anyone else who enjoys them watch rick worley's star wars videos. They're incredible and touch on some of the same ideas.
Worley inspired me to make youtube videos. His Star Wars series is incredible.
It's incredible how so many "mere youtubers", which is not meant as an insult but a reflection of how people see things, manage to craft a better story/outline for the sequels depite the lack of funds. Disney, with their deep pockets, could get the best writers on earth but would rather diversity hires than good creators. It's deeply frustrating.
That said, I'm glad I discovered this channel. I watched the Anakin video beforehand and jumped to this one out of curiosity. Imma watch the one about Luke after I give you my sub.
Cheers from France! 🍻
Thanks for commenting!
I really hope this video blows up one day because the way you pick apart and explain some of the salient themes of Star Wars is truly masterful. I have always considered the 2 George Lucas trilogies to be thematically complete on their own , but this video has enlightened me to the how a correctly-executed sequel trilogy could explore those themes in nuanced and rich ways. Bravo, man, keep up the great work. :)
Subbed. Love this take. I too would have loved to see version of the story. It feels almost as if they were leading up to this, but the core meaning of the story was lost when the directors switch for episode 8 (which is why 8 felt the most out of place). I also can’t help but think that a female protagonist turning evil and then getting saved by a martyr male character doesn’t fit well with disney’s woke values.
they even teased Rey being evil by literally showing some alternate version of her that is evil. that's the spice that this sequel needed imo.
bro refuses to make bad videos
While I whole heartily agree this would have been infinitely better than whatever the hell we got, if we're going based on what we had, Anakin's Force Ghost should have showed up and destroyed Palpatine. The moment Ben and Rey get knocked down, he shows up and finishes the job once and for all. Since Rian Johnson established (badly) that force ghosts can actually interact with the physical world, there's no reason why Anakin, the chosen one, would allow Palpatine to mass murder everyone with his lightning. He needs to finish what he started all those years ago. It's not right that Rey comes completely out of left field and takes Anakin's story that has been built up for literal decades.
The prophecy is unironically one of the worst bits of star wars canon. As long as the force exists, people will use it for bad things, and the dark side will always come back in some way
@@AmogusEpic The point was to end the Sith, removing their corruption of the force.
That's the greatest palpatine return you just described, maybe even. Palpatine appears to rey pretty, because of force mind trick or something. Dracula-esque, and palpatine must drink blood and eat people to sustain his life. Dark sider. That's because truly dark sider soul (force aspect) that would otherwise be long dead and not even a force ghost, would requires devouring flesh to sustain its existence, either its host or the others.
i subbed, u make good content. ik ur gonna blow up soon
It says a lot how hyped I was to watch Ben Solo run into the fire for Rey and how I felt nothing watching Rey destroy the emperor. They wasted so much time with all the MacGuffins. Even the relationship between Kylo and Rey, which was one thing both TLJ and TFA did well, was mostly static until the ocean fight. In the two earlier movies, every scene they were in together progressed the dynamic of their relationship- it was the strongest thing about the trilogy by far. So if Rey had to be a Palpatine, then your plot would have been a good way to give it some meaning and give her character some kind of arc and closure. Except ben should have survived somehow (Palpatine did it) and they should have rid off into the sunset as very decidedly NOT siblings, symbolic or otherwise 😉.
In all seriousness though, imo one of the greatest sins of this trilogy was setting up Rey, the protagonist, as this deeply lonely character, giving her a soul bond with the one character that seemed to understand her (though obviously they couldn't nurture that bond while on opposite sides of a war and philosophical divide), and then killing him immediately once he made his way back to her. In the novelization, after he dies, she says she feels her other half was ripped away. She ends the trilogy burying the memory of her mentors/surrogate family, once again alone in a desert with ghosts. If the external world in Star Wars is symbolic of the inner world of the characters as I think it is, that's bleak.
4:40 She should go to the Toretto's
Sequels suck it just feels like a big cash grab
Genius video. Darth Kennedy can suck it
While I love the films on their own, the sequel suffered from a lack of an overall plan. I enjoyed the themes, so I will continue the 2/3 movies. 🖤
you were right
Personally I feel they had sooo much available for what could have been an insanley great saga even with all the characters in their pocket. Personally, I feel Finn shouldve been the protagonist, There was sooo much potential of him to become a Jedi and look to both sides of seeing Rey and Kylo struggle with siding with the force. Couldve opened up a whole new unopened can that couldve delivered something soo fresh and new to uncover with the force itself. Couldve also kept Lukes Jedi academy fresh and somewhat still new with it being the theme of the whole first 2 episodes.
I would kill to have someone write this as a good fanfic
Rey could have had a Wanda Maximoff type arc. A good person and hero at her core, but willing to do evil things just to have a family. We could have seen Star Wars do something similar with Rey where her longing to have good things, such as her own family and not being lonely anymore, is what takes her to the dark side.
Great ideas for making a coherent and good sequels. Also, I think Palpatine should not be back in body, but only in soul. Maybe Force Ghosts from the Dark Side are weaker but can possess a body and regain their strength, and she starts telling Palpatine that he can possess her, but utlimetely, after seeing Palpatine kill Kylo Ren, she realizes how much evil that would do, and turns back to the light side.
I remember loving the sequence of the force awakens to the last jedi. Those movies weren't perfect, but I loved the themes they were implementing (other than finn in TLA). When I walked out from ROS, I felt empty by comparison, and this video illustrated why to me. Ben finished his arc (kinda), but Rey didn't.
Rey - with a red lightsaber - is a badass. I agree. Rey should have had a negative arc.
How can you have Xbox live without an Xbox?
I game in my dreams
This is exactly what the sequels needed!
Thanks for watching! Find me on
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Brother… you fucking nailed it!!!!!!!💯😎🤘🏻
alternatively rise of skywalker could've been saved by ending like twin peaks: the return, it would've felt more appropriate at least
A long time ago in a galaxy not that far away, I engaged in an in depth discussion about how Lucas may have structured and written his sequels based on the methods he used in the previous trilogies and based on what he himself has said. We concluded (among many other things) that there would have been TWO grandchildren of Han and Leia - a proto Ben Solo and a proto Rey.
Similar to what you've mentioned here about there being a synthesis between the thesis and antithesis, we thought that it would make most sense that the grandson would fall to the dark side (mirroring Anakins fall) while the granddaughter would continue on the path of good (mirroring Lukes rise).
So basically Star Wars Expanded Universe 😅
High quality vid, shocked at your subscriber count. Keep up the good work
"The Rise of Skywalker, lacked the Fall of Palpatine" actually perfect. AS you said, all the elements for a cohesive a good story was there, yet it was thrown away due to a lack of emotional attachment to the story and franchise as a whole. Loved this series videos man.
Soon with AI we shall remake them more powerful than Disney could possibly imagine.
This sounds SOOO much better than what we got but it’s just Vader’s arc…..
Actually that is Luke’s X-wing not Ben’s ship.
someone send this to disney. the man fixed the last triology.
Rey was feral and had to think only about herself and her survival. It would’ve been interesting if they characterized her as very intelligent but without speaking much, as if she hadn’t really acquired much of a vocabulary or social skills due to her isolation. Maybe Han reaches for something and sees its gone and Rey is running away with it. They try to teach her the value of friendship and it seems like she learned that lesson in the first film, but in her mind it’s twisted; friends can be used. She meets Luke and it seems like she’s on the right path, but then they talk and she maybe says something like, “well why should I care about the Rebels or the galaxy, I just want to find my family.” He basically tells her, with great power comes great responsibility but she does not get it. She didn’t sign up for any of this and is still selfishly motivated, which makes complete sense. Why would a scavenger be altruistic? There was so much they could’ve done with the symbolism of her being a vulture; she’s a leech, she got whatever she wanted or needed from the protagonists and then left to find Papa Palpatine.
Anakin/Vader had skewed morals but still felt love and loyalty; Rey doesn’t care about anything or anyone else because she just can’t. Despite everything else she can do and how much power she has, she’s emotionally stunted. There’s never been a character like that in Star Wars and it would’ve been so interesting, but Disney had to keep it vanilla and she had to be a hero from beginning to end.
I would say sidious is a character in star wars that displays no real emotion at any point
alright, maybe i wont watch em, just take your version...
Cosmonaut variety hour did something similar, but instead he had Ben survive and have to live with his mistakes. It’s a subversion of the OT where Luke turned Vader to the Light and Vader sacrificed himself, Rey turns Ben to the light and sacrifices herself. In too many movies do redemption arcs finish with self sacrifice. Instead it finishes with him having to atone for his mistakes for the rest of his life.
Can Disney put you and Thor Skywalker in charge instead of KK? ._.
Also, were you saying hexagol instead of exegol? Lol
Yes. And yes.
A great analysis!
would you be willing to do videos on the original expanded universe works, such as the Post Endor Trilogies, for example: Dark Empire, Thrawn Trilogy, Corellian Trilogy, Black Fleet Crisis, Callista Trilogy, Dark Nest, etc.
I've heard good things about those works but it's really not where my interest lies. I'm a cinephile and I love George Lucas as an artist and filmmaker. I'm not particularly attached to Star Wars outside of the 6 saga films.
@@josh_from_xboxlive You should play the two Knights of the Old Republic games. They are unbelievably good stories that REALLY make the movies better by giving a more in depth philosophy and mirrored, yet inversed, themes. They are very cinematic, but the majority of the shots are done in the "shot reverse shot" for dialogue; but there is some of the best character and mythological examinations of Star Wars in those games.
Also, the combat system is basically just a cinematic DnD game. It shows it's age a bit, but everything holds together amazingly well; as the story, myth, characters, and universe, are what take center stage. I think you would be blown away by the depth of the storytelling, and of the love of the original Star Wars in these games.
The first game is like playing through the OG Trilogy, and the second is like playing through the prequels(so, it's better written, plotted, and characterized, but a bit janky on the execution). If you get the chance, I think you would love these games enough to feel compelled to make a video on them. I adore the original Star Wars movies, but these game's stories and characters have actually superceded the OG films for Mme as the most important Star Wars content.
I don't say that easily either, as I am a HUGE prequel trilogy fan; and I recognize a brother in this from your: "does Anakin have a character arc?" video. We are both nerds that ADORED So Uncivilized's "Palpatine is the GOAT" video. The Prequels are not as well paced, the dialogue is more pretentiously flowery and wooden, most of the dialogue is just long diatribe expositing, and there's so much story happening that it feels like somethings are missing(The Clone Wars), but the Prequels are just this amazing tapestry of character, heart, mystery, nuance, subtlety, worldbuilding, cinematic excellence, political intrigue, and the most masterful manipulation and villainy EVER, put to screen. Yet, I feel these games, top that.
The games are about exploring the politics of Star Wars first hand, and seeing a complete picture of the impact made by these "Main Characters" in Star Wars. Simultaneously giving you a power-fantasy, while demonstrating the far-reaching consequences of ACTUALLY ACHIEVING these epic mythological power-fantasies; And all while giving you a plucky band of unlikely heroes to save, or destroy, the galaxy with.
The primary antagonist of the second game is equal to Palpatine in Mmy book. That, Sith Lord, is not exemplified in their villainy, but in their ability to change your mind; and open your perspective. The, Knights of the Old Republic games, are insanely beloved, for a reason. So, I implore you as a fellow Star Wars nerd, check out these games.
@@josh_from_xboxlive thats suck an odd take. 1-2 are mediocre movies, and 6 isnt that great either. The best starwars content ever written lies outside of lucas. Kotor 1-2, andor, clone wars, all much better than lucas' own written works.
How do you feel about Abrams's original plan of Kylo just descending into darkness forever? He doesn't seem to understand ROTJ at all.
She also tempted ezra like this.
That Rey wants family so desperately, but discovers her only blood relation is a monster, not living up to her idealized fantasy of family, and rejects him, finding her companionship instead in other places, is what makes her arc. I like your ideas, they are compelling if not more so, and the trilogy was flawed, but I think it worked on some level.
Wow. 🔥
I think I’m one of the few people that genuinely didn’t want Kylo to be redeemed. I even hate the idea of Rey and Ben switching sides halfway through the Trilogy, as it comes across as far worse “Subverting Expectations” than what The Last Jedi did (debatable, as Luke’s character was terrible in more ways than one).
Heck I say the problem is that Kylo didn’t go far enough in the Darth Vader worship, Adam Driver even said that he was told that Kylo was essentially going to start the Trilogy conflicted on which side he’s on, and ends it fully embracing the Dark Side, a reverse of Darth Vader right there. And Adam went into every movie with that exact mindset, even when they didn’t do it at all.
The Last Jedi was where the whole thing went off the rails...Snoke needed to survive and be revealed as a fallen clone of Palpatine - seeking a new powerful Force user to achieve the very immortality that Anakin sought in the prequels. Rey finding and training with Luke should have been central to the plot and pacing of the film. Canto Bight and the whole side plot with the ridiculous chase, (including the salt that turns red to show you that its not REALLY a complete Hoth rip-off) should have been sacrificed for a chase of Kylo Ren going after Finn, Poe and Leia.
The build-up should have been to an ambiguous ending (a la Empire) where the film ends with Kylo reverting to Ben Solo in an effort to free/save Leia and Finn (sacrificing Poe in the process) and Rey should reject Luke's teachings and demand more power from the Dark Side by seeking out Snoke in an inversion of the reason Luke left Yoda in Empire. With an episode 8 cliffhanger to ponder, the run up to Epsiode 9 would have been MUCH different as well.
An opening scene for episode 9, with the force ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan telling Luke of what is happening to Rey and convincing him that Ben Solo is fighting to overcome Kylo Ren and return to the light would set-up the path for a truly epic third film: Leia would sacrifice herself early on (when Rey finds her and confronts her angrily after rejecting Luke's teachings). In a rage, Rey turns on Leia and strikes her down instead of coming back to the light. Snoke, manipulating Rey into killing Leia from her subconscious mind would mirror what he did to Kylo Ren, but instead of turning back and seeking redemption (the Ben Solo arc), Rey would become the true villain of the third trilogy, revealing that she choses to seek ultimate power by turning on and killing Snoke.
This leads to a need to reconcile Ben and Luke; where Luke completes Ben's training (in echoes of what he tried to teach Rey in the previous episode) and in advance of a final confrontation with Rey, who has now become a truly powerful Sith. The threat to the universe does not need "Death Star tech" on Star Destroyers, or an armada of ships somehow all finding their way beyond the outer rim instantly, or the weirdo chanting Sith crowd in a bizarre Romanesque Arena. The threat is evil overcoming good, the power of redemption. Much as Qui Gon was killed by Maul, Luke would fall to Rey and Ben would have to confront the final choice alone - give in to his dark impulses and desires once more or struggle to stay in the light and defeat Rey.
Obviously, that's just spit-balling an idea to make the trilogy echo the previous ones and add something to the sacrifices of Han, Leia and Luke throughout, but I really like the idea of Kylo Ren and Rey having mirrored paths - one starting as the presumed hero and the other as the villain, only to see them cross destinies and meet in a final show down. It could also be that Luke would face and defeat Snoke before falling to Rey to really amp the stakes of that final confrontation.
Clearly lots of holes...but I wish we would have seen something more true to the spirit of Star Wars than what Disney shat out at us...
Love your take. Wish they went with something like this.
My hope was in The Last Jedi, Ben and Rey would throw off both the Sith and Jedi and form a new, neutral group. It would have been a great opportunity to make the sequel trilogy not just a remake of the previous ones. They had the perfect opportunity, after the throne room fight, but they squandered it.
To be honest, I think it would never have worked. Anakin is the chosen one. he brought balance to the force, that's end of story. U can have a tv series about Leia and Luke consolidating the republic and building a new jedi order but nothing worth 2 hrs.
Ultimately I agree with this; Return of the Jedi closed the circle that opened in Phantom Menace. That said, these movies didn't need to be so dang bad...
@@josh_from_xboxliveright
three people are in a room, a Jedi, a Sith and a Hutt. Who lives, who dies?
Finn was never committed to the resistance until the end of The Last Jedi. We’re literally told this.
We are told , but not shown. He already risks his life and throws away everything he's ever known in order to help Poe and the resistance right away. He then risks his life to help the resistance at the end of Force Awakens... His arc is all over the place.
@@josh_from_xboxlive No his goal, protecting Rey, just coincided with the resistance’s objectives at those times. Which is why he has to explain it to others in the movies who assume he’s committed like them.
@@martoto77 I see that his goal is to protect Rey in Last Jedi, but at the start of Force Awakens he hasn't even met her yet. Moreover, he's not protecting Rey when he decides to leave her entirely in the middle of Force Awakens. He's just a poorly written characters who's motivation keeps changing
@@josh_from_xboxlive He leaves her safely in the hands of war hero, General Solo. And they are about to link up with Resistance who are in a fight with the FO he wants no part of. (Plus it has forced him to reveal to her that he was a stormtrooper, no a “big deal in the resistance”, which he assumes means the end of any honeymoon period of friendship) But then Rey is captured by the FO meaning he has a fight with them whether he likes it or not. And so the Resistance becomes his ally in that fight.
The double turn would have been an incredible plot twist. Having Kylo Ren become the Hero and Rey become the villain would have been a genius move if they executed it correctly. but alas woke Hollywood would never let a woman be a villain and a white male be the hero.
This has nothing to do with the movie, but in Rebels, Palpatine does the exact same thing with Ezra, he shows him his dead parents calling to him and looking for him, he also shows his old self without the electricity burn marks on him
No.
Question answered.
All the Disney Star Wars movie suck. Whether it is the sequels or the spin off movies. They are no way as good as the original trilogy or Revenge of the Sith.
I feel like this gotten to weirdly anti Rose territory, and i just wanna let be stated that her arc in TLJ is literally about family, belonging, and what drives us! They just failed to expand on it because JJ Abrams didn’t want to write a story for a character he didn’t create
Wholeheartedly agree with this except for one point. Rather than Kylo sacrificing himself for Rey, both him and Rey help heal the stab wound on his body and both of them takes on Sheev. As Palpatine uses clones to survive, there's no reason why he would be weaker than he was back in ROTS so they would be outmatched with either Rey or Ben having to sacrifice themself to give an opening for the other to stab through. Rey dying here would mean ending the bloodline that has been the source of the galaxy's suffering. Ben dying here would mean atoning for his mistakes and becoming one with his family. Or we can have both survive but Ben has to go his own path as he feels responsible for the death of his parents and that the Republic will not accept him.
Rey defeating Palpatine alone undermines the stakes that Palpatine carries considering that unlike Palpatine, she lacks the experience and hurts her reputation being Mary Sue.
Papa Palpatine
Rey should be stabbed by Ben and die.
The fundamental problem that I see in almost every hypothetical rewrite or outline of a Star Wars sequel I see is the fact that Finn is NEVER in the final act, especially not with Rey. Finn is never seen able to exact EVEN THE SENSE of revenge on the people, and the cult, that stole not only his, but all storm troopers' childhoods from them. Rey & Finn already have a close friendship that isn't even founded on their respective lack of family, and it's that, that could make their relationship even stronger, even if it isn't romantic. Why does everyone want Kylo Ren to take Finn's place.
I was correctably one of the people that wanted to see Ren turn to the light, but that was only through the writing decisions that happened to make it to the final cut. I never wanted to see any other Disney villain be redeemed, just him. And its because Ren is written to be redeemed, but au contraire, be a very personal villain to both Finn AND Rey.
If I were to rewrite Ep.7-9, I would have Ren killed by Rey on Starkiller base, and have Finn train (with on of those cool electric batons) with Rey. They'd share a conflict in Ep.8; Finn disapproves of Rey's false need to have a blood related family, and Rey makes a point that Finn never have a family that wasn't brainwashed by the First Order. Rey searches for the closest family she would otherwise have, Snoke. End on a low note of the relationship, and come back with her as a Sith in the political service of Snoke, but refusing the orders to kill anyone in the Resistance. Finn trains and fights in service of the Resistance, but refuses to kill the storm troopers. Feeling restricted in all of her will, Rey tries to leave the First Order (sending a message to Finn) but is held back by the entire Order. Finn, last second, comes to help Rey get away from Snoke, but Rey chooses to rid the galaxy of Snoke once and for all. The protagonists' relationship stronger than ever, after realizing that the conflict they shared was in the favor of Snoke (who im going to say was dropped as an unspoken apprentice of Darth Plagueis) who needed a new apprentice in turn to run the galaxy and spread his misery to live on through the suffering of the force. They kill him and give freedom of the galaxy once more. Rey stays a sith, using the powers and code of one, but only to aid the galaxy itself. In an epilogue, Rey as a wonderer (sorta like Ahsoka), Finn by her side as an equal, and Poe as the leader of the republic.
I know ALL of this would need ironing out, but writing a movie trillogy script in an hour just to make a point in a RUclips comment section is mentally draining.
man...
It’s disappointing that you gave such nuanced looks at Anakin and Luke but with this you’re, by the get go, thinking about fixing things. It’s a very good analysis and the idea you propose is very good, but the tone you employ here feels a little Off to me
You should of written the Disney trilogy
Wow such a shame haha 😢
Unfortunately this is a disney film: i.e. The white man cant be the hero and the strong female character cannot be a villain. It’s their agenda. What you’ve suggested is pure art. What disney makes ispropaganda
Rise is such a shame
So much potential. I love your idea of Rey embracing grandpa palpy