I think you ask a very good question about gender swapping and I think while there's a possibility of accepting the relationship at the end, the stakes at play are very different if you swap the genders. When Daphne assaults him it's horrible, and if they had conceived the consequences he would suffer are having to confront his childhood trauma and raise a child he didn't ask for which are not good things. However, if you swap the genders, the consequences she would have to face, especially during that time period are potentially lethal. If they had conceived, there's a very strong likelihood that she would have died in childbirth. So while I absolutely don't support a double standard, I'm also aware that the consequences are very different and can't be taken lightly
This is a great point I should have considered. Especially if you are in the US in 2024. Becuz now we're reverting back to 1800's consequences for women in many states. And I agree with Marshall's take, as well. But for a different reason. He even made the funniest rant about it in Aussie MAFS. What about condoms! They actually did have condoms back then. But only the rich used them due to their costs. So it could have been historically accurate for Daphne to learn about condoms and make that point to Simon as part of the reconciliation arc. Or better yet, it would have been pretty funny if somehow Lady Danbury broke it down to Simon that he did indeed have options if he was so dead set on not having kids.
@@marshallstannus 🙏🏾🙏🏾 thank you!! I should also mention that I definitely do have sympathy for Simon in that situation as well if he was forced to bear a child he did not want. I am a child free by choice woman and absolutely do not want children of my own so I would feel rightfully angry and trapped and betrayed by my partner if I were forced into being a parent when I did not want it, like Simon would be in that situation. The being said, I would be lying if I didn't say that the process of being pregnant, the changes in your body, the dangers of childbirth and the mental, physical, financial, and emotional aspects of incubating a child were a huge factor in that decision to be child free. But thank you for acknowledging my comment and I really appreciate your analysis!
Came here to say exactly this. Still bad, still assault, but a woman tricking a man into conceiving in those days could easily have paid for it with her life.
Wait... who said that there was no chemistry between Simon and Daphne?? I felt so much chemistry, I get chills just looking at the stills, nearly 3-4 years later...
I definitely think it would have been more unacceptable if it was genderswapped, only because Simon, as a man, has more power than Daphne. He has the option to leave the marriage as he threatens. If it were the other way around, a woman of the time would have not have this option. Thus, inherently it is different.
Yes exactly. He has the options to get rid of Daphne and keep everything he has, he wouldn’t lose his estate, his title etc but Daphne would be ruined if she was to leave and no one would be able to understand her choices because that would’ve just been her duty as a woman to have sex and be impregnated by their partner so what did she expect
Also, she would be the one to actually give birth and sacrifice her body for this. He wouldn't go though the physical aspect of it. And, in that era, she has a high chance of dying.
I do think simmon intentionally mislead Daphne. He can't teach her about masterbation and then claim he for sure knew she didn't know about how babies were made, his choice of words was meant to mislead her, had he said he will not give her children by choice she wouldn't have married him but he phrased it in a way that led her to believe he had a physical issue and not a moral one
Masturbation has nothing to do with having children. The fact that she doesn't know anything about masturbation doesn't mean that she doesn't know how children are born. It's entirely possible that Simon assumed that her mother had taught her about having children, but not about the fact that she could touch herself if she felt like it
Just to add to this, he blurts out “I thought you knew how children were made” rather than “I thought you didn’t”. And I believe he’s being earnest there when he says that he thought she knew, and I have to agree with the comment above saying masturbation and procreation could be too wildly different topics if what you said was the case! Thank you for the comment regardless!
@@alina_herbivore that would make legitimately no sense, a woman who doesn't even know how sex works or even what a penis is based on her reaction in the sex scene. It's obvious she didn't know. The I burn for you scene?! She didn't even know what that meant and she was almost offended at first when he asked her to do the acts he asked for. Because up until that point she thought it was improper. I see why you think the way you do. It's just a narrow viewpoint. She even asked if ejaculation hurts. The show made it obvious that she knew nothing and he KNEW she knew nothing.
@@petramarie7019 That makes perfect sense. She has a younger brother, I'm sure she knows what a penis is but has probably never seen a "ready to insert" penis before, her reaction doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't know how sex works. The first time is exciting, whether you know the seed has to land inside you to have children or not
I think the main point "Dahne wasn't punished" deserves a little more attention. Yes, we shouldn't apply modern moral standards to that. Yes, it was presented as traumatic and she was clearly presented as being in the wrong and actively hurting Simon. I have no problem with the scene/plot point being in the series, and how it was executed. What I have problem with is the follow out. Yes, the sweet honeymoon ends and they get apart after that, despite still being attracted to each other. But. First, they still do not talk to each other openly (also, it is never addressed why she chose to violate him instead of talking to him when she learned how the babies are made? what has driven her to that decision?) and do not communicate earnestly. Nothing is actually resolved about their inability to talk to each other and to trust each other with their feelings. Second, the way the plot goes from there is other people (e.g. Lady Danbary) telling Simon to get over himself and stop with this childish convictions of him. HE is to change his way and to apologise to Daphne, she doesn't need to do shit. Even if this was included there, he still should have TALKED with Daphne about it, not only with other people. Third, even if we exclude the modern morals out if the story - she still hurt and traumatised him, and it was very visible from the way he reacted to her act. She broke his trust, she actively hurt him, she was cruel to him instead of addressing the issue and talking to him. She should have at least apologise to him, and earn his trust back. Even giving in to him, accepting his boundaries and backing up (for him then to change his opinions and get back to her with the "you know, let's screw that and go get children" finale). Instead, she acts all sulky and hurt and as if she did nothing wrong, and it is him who must change, get back to her and give her what she wanted. And that left a very bad taste in my mouth.
Exactly! It’s not that this act was put in the show, I think audiences see SA in a lot of shows nowadays. To me it was the fact that they added this conflict to a romance show. I want to root for the character’s love and I couldn’t root for them anymore after that scene. I had to suspend disbelief and ignore the bad taste it left in my mouth to finish the season. I love everything else Bridgeton does, but that particular conflict made me so mad. It’s not a matter of the times, it’s that I just watched SA (of the main love interests!) when I’m supposed to be watching a romance show.
I loved your review! I hate it when viewers and readers don’t get that normal modern morals and views DO NOT apply with fantasy or fictional time pieces. This was a great job.
@@mishynaofficial no one is romanticising abuse 😔 But I understand that media literacy and reading comprehension is lacking in the educational system. The reviewer literally explained this in detail towards the end of the video but you probably didnt watch it to the end.
@@reading1713 The show romanticizes abuse. Daphne SA and victimblamed Simon, and for that she was rewarded with them getting back together. She literally gave him a new PTSD to his old CPTSD, and you are going here like "no one romanticizes abuse🥺". How many of you would want to continue relationship with someone who SA you? Fr?
I agree with your take on the scene between Daphne and Simone that so many didn’t agree with I think it plays on here naivety and her lack of understanding of relationships…she is really just a girl who is thrust into a situation of having too get married at the age of 17/18 it’s sad and I think so many people miss that…
Same! I felt like I was the only one until watching his videos, and reading the comments on each one. Reddit is just an echo chamber of how AMAZINNNNNG season 3 is and I just don’t see it.
Actually, Marina's storyline is a set up for one of the Bridgerton Siblings romance. It sets up that Sir Phillip Crane married out of duty and it was a loveless marriage with Marina.
Simon 100% knew what he was doing when he said it like that, she literally did not know how babies are made, and he knew that. Genderswapping, sure, if she held all the power, had all the knowledge, and he had her level of ignorace, it could be argued they could reconcile, although the fact she would still bear the physical dangers of pregnancy it would never be a completely equal situation. I also don't think she was actually trying to conceive, I read it as a woman desperately trying to find out if her husband was lying to her. It was 100% SA, but people saying it would be the same if the characters were swapped are just plain wrong, in this world, with these characters, it wouldn't even come close to compare. They really needed to deconstruct it way more, I completely see how ppl think Daphne got away scot free, I too think she should have been more confronted with what she did, and how damaging it was. And ultimately they could've just omitted it entirely, there are many ways they could've gotten the same conflict, even if it was very effective, it definitely damages the show as a whole. I would really recommend Laura Crone's vid on that scene, she pretty much put all my thoughts into words.
I think the people who say that Simon was not shown as a victim and that only Daphne was miss some of the nuance of what is going on. Daphne is a victim. She is a victim of the society that she is a part of. She should have never been forced to marry so young and be thrust into married life completely unprepared. At the same time however, Simon is not the reason she is a victim. He did not do this to her. Her anger is completely misplaced. As well, being a victim of something or having a bad thing happen to you, does not mean that it is suddenly okay to do bad things to other people. What Daphne did was very much not okay. And by modern standards, I think they should have broken up-- gender swapped or not. But i completely agree with you that we cannot ignore historical context. Daphne would not have been arrested for what she did. All the consequences she could recieve were social and emotional.
I believe people are mad at this scene precisely because they could not accept this "love story" if it was gender swapped. At least that is what I saw in the discussions I watched. Daphne didn't suffer consequences, as in, he forgave her without her even taking accountability. He accepted that actually he's the problem, which he was not. She does not deserve a happy ending, she did not earn it. And the fact that she got it is completely out of the blue. The audience didn't buy this love after that. That's the issue. Anyway. The grape scene was completely unnecessary from a narrative point of view too (Simon could just accidently not pull out in time and freak out and they would still have their conflict without absolutely shattering their lives forever). They should have just taken it out, as they did with other problematic things from the orignal books.
The only things I don´t like in that season are: 1. Simons stutter. They could´ve executed that better and more realistically and even sometimes more clearly that he still stutters. 2. THAT scene! They could´ve easily rewritten it even slightly more so that Simon doesn´t say "whait" to Daphne and instead fully enjoys it throughout the whole act and doesn´t realise what happened until AFTER it´s already over 3. The age gap between Simon and Daphne. In the book (set in 1813) Simon is 29 and Daphne is 21, meaning they have an age gap of 8 years. But in the show (also set in 1813) Simon is still 29 but Daphne is now 18/19 AND in her first season meaning she basically just became a grown up and JUST was introduced to society. Like I´m glad that they aged down Colin so him and Pen could have a smaller age gap (in the books they have a 5 years age gap and lets be real: falling in love with a woman you met when you were 21 and she was 16? gross) but this led to this 10 to 11!!!!! years age gap between Simon and Daphne
There was no reason for the r4pe scene. The same situation could've happened without Simon getting violated. Pulling out has never been a good contraceptive, why not play on that ?
I think it's good to show that men can be victims too though, to SA/non-consent. Yeah, pulling out is not a valid method of contraceptive, there's nuance.
@tan89284 ik it's good show male victims, but it's also good to show consequences. I know this is the regency era, and there would be none, but as a show for modern audiences, the show shouldn't paint daphne in a positive/normal light.
@@tan89284but the problem is that they don’t portray simon as a victim. they make daphne one. and what’s even worse is that in szn 1 they tried to frame the show as progressive for having black characters and yet don’t address the fact that a white woman raped a black man and got away with it/ got what she wanted in the end. if they rlly wanted to they could’ve had a rlly good conversation abt race, sexual assault and gender but all the “progressiveness” was just for show and they just didn’t rlly care
Quite true. As Marshall says in the video, it is a good example of withdrawn consent, however the main conflict could have occurred simply if Daphne had confronted Simon about their miscommunication.
Simon didn't say stop. He said wait Daphne. Slightly different I know. Thank you for raising the 'modern morals' topic. Im tired of reading comments stating it was deliberate SA.
Modern morals, absolutely. Its clearly a very specific situation where sex education doesn't exist and we can't judge it by modern standards. But your argument that he says "wait" instead of "stop" isn't it. Enthusiastic yes or it's assault, if not by the letter of the law then by morality. It's not just a pedantic argument to make, it's implying that as long as a victim saying "wait" instead of "stop" the perpetrator isn't guilty. Daphne doesn't understand what she did and we can't play by the rules of modern morality, but your argument is not the reason why.
With the discussion of the sex scenes through the female gaze, I thought that the sex scene between Penelope and Colin in Season 3 was AMAZING!!!!!!! Not the fingering in the carriage scene, but the scene in the room where they will eventually be moving into. The dialogue, pacing, gentleness, I felt like it was very true to a lot of people's first experiences and so respectful.
In regards to gender swapping, I think it would have been completely different. I don’t think they would have understood what she did as SA in those days because it wasn’t the act he was objecting to, it was the potential for a baby. If it were a woman saying no in the middle back then, it would be because of the act itself rather than that (unless she was specifically saying she doesn’t want the partner to ejaculate inside her). I couldn’t really believe it when he said that he thought she knew why he was doing that, so to me he did play on her ignorance, whether that was unconsciously or intentionally. I do think that it would have been better for them to be more explicit in the argument about it though, so that viewers had more of an insight into how Simon felt by that, even after when they returned to London. I think it would have been really powerful to talk of it openly and explain to Daphne (and by proxy the viewers), the impact that had on him, but also allow an opportunity for Daphne to also put forth her perspective of it, so that the viewer would understand that she doesn’t understand it to be withdrawn consent through her narrow and ignorant (or more time-appropriate) view of all that. Remember, she asked her maid about it who though may have been a bit more informed, was probably not all that knowing herself when it came to sex given that she was probably unwed and had probably been in service for a long time, with likely no chance for her own relationships. We should feel uncomfortable and it should make us question the right and wrong of it in general, as a point of conversation as you discussed.
I don’t rly like the gender swapped argument because pregnancy is something that happens to a woman, not a man. Does that make sense? Simon didnt want a child because of trauma, a woman wouldnt want a child because it would mean months of intense physical pain and (during bridgerton times) spending the rest of her life caring for the baby.
about the daphne/simon SA situation... it's so frustrating when people act like daphne (who didn't even know what sex was until her wedding night, not to mention consent and all its ethics and intricacies that obviously should NOT be taken lightly) was acting from a place of informed malice when she did what she did. of course i have to spell out the obvious that it WASN'T okay [before the people who i'm talking about come for me under this comment]; but please, guys, try to have a more nuanced and contextual perspective about things. she couldn't have understood the gravity of hurt her actions would cause to simon because she was so in the dark about it all and feeling confused/vulnerable herself, believing that simon intentionally withheld crucial information from her about childbirth. was it his fault? no, and (OBVIOUSLY) he didn't deserve to have his withdrawn consent ignored. although not the same, i could liken it to young lady danbury in queen charlotte for instance. the sex scenes with her and lord danbury are so uncomfortable to watch because we know she didn't want to be there and that raises issues about enthusiastic consent as well - but i'm not up in arms about that because DUH, the times they were living in put women like lady danbury in a position where they sometimes (unfortunately) had to endure relations with men whom they often were not attracted to and who treated them in subhuman ways simply to ensure their security and standing in society. in summary, i personally i did not have a problem with how that scene was portrayed; anyone with brain cells understands that it's not "glorifying abuse" like i saw another comment say, it is just portraying the harsh realities of the time and potential consequences of how men/women were problematically socialised in that era.
Subscribed!! I really really enjoyed this video. I love video essays on movies and tv shows and I watch them all the time- and you are very talented. First of all, I laughed out loud when you said Simon’s face is the face of someone who’s seen an iPhone 😂😂😂. But also, I can tell you’ve taken time to formulate your perspective. I’m a friendly space ninja subscriber, and I think you made a very fair point about his commentary. I love your questions to the audience - they’re more thoughtful than the usual “how would you rate” endings. Anyways, keep making content!!! 10/10
I literally fought a whole group of women on threads about Simon bruh like how he was way better than Daphne and how Simon had all the chemistry and Daphne was so plain like??? How jealous of a fictional character are you??
hahaha this was fun because I also remember thinking the friendlySpaceNinja review was really weird at the time. Like I wasn't even that big a fan of season 1 but for none of the reasons he gave.
The intro is awesome!!! And they onlybshow it once in the 1st episode of the season then show the title card every episode after. And I was shocked it was Penelope that was behind the whole Whistledown reveal. But I do feel the reveal was done too soon & should have been saved for the 1st episode of the 2nd season
Very on point review again! But i do have one point i'd like to add. I hadn't followed the retracted consent discussion, just watched the show. But if Daphne was taken to task so harshly for her actions, it does signal to me that many viewers are missing a HUGE aspect of the "marriage mart" in those times and that is that Daphne would have been 15 or 16 her first year 'out'.... This is why i have to turn off a certain button in my head to truly enjoy watching Bridgerton and why i loved the second season so much (Kate was 26, thank god). These were grown ass men looking for a wife amongst literal children... Perhaps it is because this is not explicitly mentioned ever (i think) and the fact that all of the actors who portray these "young ladies" are clearly in their 20's, but it is always in the back of my mind when i watch the show. Even at the beginning of season 2 when Anthony is Tindering through town auditioning every possible young lady for potential bride material, he's being very dismissive of them to his brothers, but i'm sitting there going like : WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT, MY GUY?? YOU ARE LITERALLY DATING CHILDREN. Anyway, that was just my 5 cents :-) Great video, love your takes on these shows just as much as i enjoy watching the shows themselves. Like you said, they're not perfect but such a fun watch.
Looking back, I think this is the point where it all went wrong for season three The reveal of Lady Whistledown I agree, it was not necessary for her to be revealed so soon Instead, Penelope could have been just existing in the background giving you an idea that she's upto something Make it secretive It would have taken some of her best scenes from season 2, especially with Eloise But. Maybe it would have ultimately saved season three, which is, you know, an entire season compared to a few scenes where Penelope is the main character...
i think the opening was actually more like anne with an e (also netflix original) but in that context it was really “autumn” coded and so it was less bright but it was still just as kitschy and cute…okay yes i do kinda like the bridgerton opening but i LOVE anne with an e tbh and i like that aesthetic and i like that bridgerton is like the “spring” version of that opening. i wouldn’t be surprised if the same people worked on it, but i have no idea.
i remember watching friendly space ninja’s bridgerton video when it first came out and not thinking much of it, but looking back there was a lot of terrible analysis i simply didn’t absorb at the time or really push back on cause i just went “eh, agree to disagree” due to the fact that i liked most of his videos 😭 if i had watched that video for the first time now, i definitely would’ve either quit watching or left some very strong opinions in the comments 😅
On the withdrawn consent, gender-swap question: I don't think I could root for them anymore. I think the double standard has reasons behind it, though. If she had been forced to conceive, it would have been her body carrying the baby. I think that makes an incredible difference. Also, there is an interesting question brought up in a recent review of Bridgerton S1 of how much Daphne could even have understood that what she did was SA when she barely understands how sex and babies work *and* she lives in a society where her own body is not entirely recognized as her own. Just look at how Anthony feels responsibility and control over it as he tries to sell her off on the marriage market and then tries to kill someone who may have tarnished its purity.
I was also thinking the opening credits are tacky as...they remind me of the ones from 'Anne with an E' but it makes sense for Anne with an E coz its about a child and its hipstery and woodslandy
Anthony is my least favorite main character (even after Season 2), and he is a straight-up asshole in Season 1. But to be fair to him, he doesn't insist on the Duke marrying her because he personally sees her as "tarnished" because of a consentual kiss. It's because she could be socially ruined by it. If anyone saw them even being alone together, which we later find out someone did, it would ruin not only Daphne but the entire family. No one would marry her, and likely no one would marry any of her younger sisters either. And for women in those days, remaining unmarried was a one-way ticket to an even worse life and less choices and power than they already had. So he wasn't just dueling him for daring to kiss his sister, but for potentially ruining any chance she or her three younger sisters have for any kind of meaningful and fulfilling life. Also, I think it's hilarious that your whole sarcastic imagining of how they expected people to respond to the Whistledown reveal... that was my exact reaction! I get that it didn't feel earned to you, but it absolutely did to me. I think this is just one of those you-can't-please-everyone things, like people's preference for different couples. To me, the end of the first season was the perfect time to reveal it, and set up so much dramatic irony in Season 2 (one of the very few things I enjoyed about Season 2, tbh) I appreciate your nuanced take on the SA between Daphne and the Duke, but I also think there's more to be said about Daphne's ignorance. It does not seem reasonable that Simon, who has literally had to teach Daphne everything about sex, and who has witnessed her visible confusion after at least one of his pull-outs, would assume that she understands the mechanics of how babies are made. He absolutely took advantage of her complete lack of experience and knowledge, whether he did so consciously or not. And expecting her to have a modern grasp of consent, and especially the nuances of someone enthusiastically participating until the last minute, when the most forward thinking people of her time wouldn't have seen it the way we do, and she didn't even have a grasp of even the basic mechanics of sex and reproduction, is incredibly unfair. I'm not defending what she did at all. She was 100% in the wrong. But she would have had no concept of the magnitude of this. Which is why I think your gender-swapping theory has to take into account all the differences between their situations. If Simon was the completely inexperienced partner, whose only knowledge of sex was what his much more experienced (and older, and more powerful) wife had explained to him, I think I would still see it the same way: absolutely wrong, but something that could and should be worked through, rather than simply casting him as the villain and casting him out.
Honestly, it is so right of you to ask about if it was genderswapped! Because, i only realized that... no, I would not find myself rooting for them in the end It is a double standard But acknowledging that, there's also, you know, differences if a woman was forced to have a child and if a man was forced to father a child Because pregnancy develops in women so it's worse because you're also violating her body for giving birth while having sex against her consent But also, I concede it is not wholly that If it was genderswapped, I would not be this hesitant to acknowledge it was Daphne in the wrong Due to our mindset regarding women being violated, your immediate reponse is to shut down that But... not with men I still find myself thinking back to how Daphne's also gotten injustice done because this was not what she had signed up for But, if it was a man, I don't think I would've given him that grace, I would've immediately thought, 'Nothing warranties doing something against your partner's consent'
For both it would not be okay to force the other one to finish. However we all now that the pull out game is a very weak one. If they had continued like that, sooner or later, she would probably have conceived. Which makes me wonder if he would have doubted her fidelity, believing it couldn’t be his .. product.
Watching these vids backwards from your Season 3 Part 1 review and I have to say, I LOVE your beef with Friendly Space Ninja's reviews because I've always thought he is just a wanna be CinemaSins with how much he hates every show centered around women or anyone who ARENT exactly like him. His first Bridgerton was the last thing i ever watched from him, not because I love Bridgerton (honestly its not my thing) but because he is just such a bad faith critic. Love to see other creators who are unafraid to call that behavior out.
@@marshallstannus Its all ok. This is a safe space. I am a l ittle embaressed to say due to the lack of romantic life on my end at 50 yrs, I can easilly fall into the romantic (harlequine romance novel on crack) genre a little too easily. I didn't watch Season 2 thinking I'll be strong .... and one day ... 1 year after S02 aired... there is an (maybe 30 sec) clip of Kate and Anthony being a little feral ... I relapsed into only watching Anothony and Kate and thier passionate tingly moments on RUclips... I think maybe 4 or 5 xs each (sighing and wishing as though I was 13 and boy crazy all over again)... might as well watched the series. I recently learnt SPOTIFY plays some audio books if your a subscriber. I indulged and started litening to the audio book for #3. However I learnt the romantic stranger in the television series doesn't make an appearence in the book .... so I might have a very hard relapse when Season 3 airs. Re: your comment about Pen being the writter and it wasn't a big reveal, I am curious if the reveal was spread out in the books - as by 3 it is known who she is.
I like the point about the first season being more for a younger audience and the second one for a bit more mature viewers. I don't like the first one so maybe I'm biased (or too old! :-D)... And also I don't feel any chemistry between Daphne and Simon. Second season is my favorite mainly because of Simone Ashley and Jonathan Bailey, they are superb.
The best shows have elements of tension and flawed characters. We can't have watchable shows without conflict. I'm also a fan of the content creator you referenced for his production value and interesting personality and perspective. However, I often feel his criticisms are a bit woke ( An over used term, but it fits here.). If we squeeze out all of the human foibles and deeply flawed character traits, what will we have? We'll have a bland show where everyone says and does the correct thing and that's not interesting and doesn't spark thought nor conversation. For instance, is there a conversation to be had about the gender swap of consent withdrawal? I say yes. Would i be able to show grace for his character in this circumstance? I think i would if it had all played out similarity, meaning they eventually remained a couple in love. Why not? If we are to be okay with the woman being the offender then we should be ok with the male as well in this particular situation. Does that mean im advocating for any of this to play out in real life? Of course not, but the world of fiction is a safe place to have these conversations and wonderings.
Ummm the showrunner chris van dusen literally said: "at the end of the day, this show is for a moderm audience...theres a modernity to everything we're doing..." so everyone saying "we cant apply modern standards to this" - that goes directly against what the showrunner wanted. Plus Simon was under the impression that Daphne knew about how babies are made. He literally says this. Yes he told her about masturbation to introduce her to sexual pleasure, but the whole reproduction side of sex was supposed to come from her mother, which Simon would have been aware of as that was the process: mothers prepared daughters for the process of child rearing. Everyone saying he trapped Daphne - that was her plan as much as his. When he says: "why do you think I followed you into that garden?" She responds with: "why do you think I went into that garden? It is you I cannot sacrifice..." here she means she doesn’t care if kids aren't an option - she loves Simon too much. She also later says: "I have everything I need right here." Simon was under the impression that she had been told about reproduction but didn't care because she loved him too much. Even if all this wasn't true - sexual assault is not the way to go about it. She had the proof he was lying at that point with the handkerchief, and could have just confronted him with it. And saying Daphne needs to be separated from the actress true, but her attitude to the rape scene immediately turned me off: "I didn’t [find it disturbing]... we are just telling a story". Plus her performance was very wooden and squeaking and gasping all the time but that's jusy my opinion I don't find that sort of bland performance appealing at all. Basically it freaks me out the way people go to such insane lengths to justify Daphne committing rpe and I feel I need to ask - "you know the whole plot could have happened without rpe???" Edit: during the time their "relationship falls apart" he still gives her head on the stairs. If they really wanted to show simon at the victim the next episode should have been from his POV, but every chance they get to take us further we have to go off with Daphne looking sad. Plus even an apology from her would have shown some growth.
22:42 but its not the same world. Its been modernized and changed. Its fantasy. Its why their clothing styles are not accurate to the time, they have black people mixing with white with black people having titles etc in London. So you cannot hold everything from those times as being set in stone. Those could have been changed somewhat as other aspects have been very liberally. She assaulted him and he got gaslit and she got her happy ending. And almost no watchers seemed to care because there is a "me too" movement happening so many are ready to get behind, but view when it happens to men differently somehow....
THANK YOU. Even the showrunner wants us to view it in a modern lense!!! All these people saying "it was a different time" are just plain wrong in this case.
I hate season 1. I rewatched season 2 before season 3 but I can not go to watch season 1. I really don’t like Daphne’s character after what she did to Simon. I just felt like she hadn’t even acknowledged what she had done. She blamed Simon for not giving her children when he literally refused to marry her stating he couldn’t give her children. She was the one who brought it on herself as Simon actively tried to not marry her because of this.
It's a strange one. It says we celebrate all the cultures, but refuses to make any of Bridgerton or other important characters to represent LGBTQ+ and leaves women to be completely inequal to their spouses.
I think you ask a very good question about gender swapping and I think while there's a possibility of accepting the relationship at the end, the stakes at play are very different if you swap the genders. When Daphne assaults him it's horrible, and if they had conceived the consequences he would suffer are having to confront his childhood trauma and raise a child he didn't ask for which are not good things. However, if you swap the genders, the consequences she would have to face, especially during that time period are potentially lethal. If they had conceived, there's a very strong likelihood that she would have died in childbirth. So while I absolutely don't support a double standard, I'm also aware that the consequences are very different and can't be taken lightly
Fantastic point, really appreciate you engaging this way! Pinned comment!
This is a great point I should have considered. Especially if you are in the US in 2024. Becuz now we're reverting back to 1800's consequences for women in many states. And I agree with Marshall's take, as well. But for a different reason. He even made the funniest rant about it in Aussie MAFS.
What about condoms! They actually did have condoms back then. But only the rich used them due to their costs. So it could have been historically accurate for Daphne to learn about condoms and make that point to Simon as part of the reconciliation arc. Or better yet, it would have been pretty funny if somehow Lady Danbury broke it down to Simon that he did indeed have options if he was so dead set on not having kids.
@@marshallstannus 🙏🏾🙏🏾 thank you!! I should also mention that I definitely do have sympathy for Simon in that situation as well if he was forced to bear a child he did not want. I am a child free by choice woman and absolutely do not want children of my own so I would feel rightfully angry and trapped and betrayed by my partner if I were forced into being a parent when I did not want it, like Simon would be in that situation. The being said, I would be lying if I didn't say that the process of being pregnant, the changes in your body, the dangers of childbirth and the mental, physical, financial, and emotional aspects of incubating a child were a huge factor in that decision to be child free. But thank you for acknowledging my comment and I really appreciate your analysis!
Came here to say exactly this. Still bad, still assault, but a woman tricking a man into conceiving in those days could easily have paid for it with her life.
100% agree
Wait... who said that there was no chemistry between Simon and Daphne?? I felt so much chemistry, I get chills just looking at the stills, nearly 3-4 years later...
Exactly
I definitely think it would have been more unacceptable if it was genderswapped, only because Simon, as a man, has more power than Daphne. He has the option to leave the marriage as he threatens. If it were the other way around, a woman of the time would have not have this option. Thus, inherently it is different.
Yes exactly. He has the options to get rid of Daphne and keep everything he has, he wouldn’t lose his estate, his title etc but Daphne would be ruined if she was to leave and no one would be able to understand her choices because that would’ve just been her duty as a woman to have sex and be impregnated by their partner so what did she expect
Also, she would be the one to actually give birth and sacrifice her body for this. He wouldn't go though the physical aspect of it. And, in that era, she has a high chance of dying.
ur disgust at the font in the intro is killing me 😭
I do think simmon intentionally mislead Daphne. He can't teach her about masterbation and then claim he for sure knew she didn't know about how babies were made, his choice of words was meant to mislead her, had he said he will not give her children by choice she wouldn't have married him but he phrased it in a way that led her to believe he had a physical issue and not a moral one
Yqeh, he is Karen of that season.
Masturbation has nothing to do with having children. The fact that she doesn't know anything about masturbation doesn't mean that she doesn't know how children are born. It's entirely possible that Simon assumed that her mother had taught her about having children, but not about the fact that she could touch herself if she felt like it
Just to add to this, he blurts out “I thought you knew how children were made” rather than “I thought you didn’t”.
And I believe he’s being earnest there when he says that he thought she knew, and I have to agree with the comment above saying masturbation and procreation could be too wildly different topics if what you said was the case!
Thank you for the comment regardless!
@@alina_herbivore that would make legitimately no sense, a woman who doesn't even know how sex works or even what a penis is based on her reaction in the sex scene. It's obvious she didn't know. The I burn for you scene?! She didn't even know what that meant and she was almost offended at first when he asked her to do the acts he asked for. Because up until that point she thought it was improper. I see why you think the way you do. It's just a narrow viewpoint. She even asked if ejaculation hurts. The show made it obvious that she knew nothing and he KNEW she knew nothing.
@@petramarie7019 That makes perfect sense. She has a younger brother, I'm sure she knows what a penis is but has probably never seen a "ready to insert" penis before, her reaction doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't know how sex works. The first time is exciting, whether you know the seed has to land inside you to have children or not
this was the best season of them all. this season remains UNMATCHED
Agree 💯
I completely agree and the show went downhill after he left and now she’s gone. I would have loved to see them married.
I think the main point "Dahne wasn't punished" deserves a little more attention. Yes, we shouldn't apply modern moral standards to that. Yes, it was presented as traumatic and she was clearly presented as being in the wrong and actively hurting Simon. I have no problem with the scene/plot point being in the series, and how it was executed.
What I have problem with is the follow out. Yes, the sweet honeymoon ends and they get apart after that, despite still being attracted to each other. But.
First, they still do not talk to each other openly (also, it is never addressed why she chose to violate him instead of talking to him when she learned how the babies are made? what has driven her to that decision?) and do not communicate earnestly. Nothing is actually resolved about their inability to talk to each other and to trust each other with their feelings.
Second, the way the plot goes from there is other people (e.g. Lady Danbary) telling Simon to get over himself and stop with this childish convictions of him. HE is to change his way and to apologise to Daphne, she doesn't need to do shit. Even if this was included there, he still should have TALKED with Daphne about it, not only with other people.
Third, even if we exclude the modern morals out if the story - she still hurt and traumatised him, and it was very visible from the way he reacted to her act. She broke his trust, she actively hurt him, she was cruel to him instead of addressing the issue and talking to him. She should have at least apologise to him, and earn his trust back. Even giving in to him, accepting his boundaries and backing up (for him then to change his opinions and get back to her with the "you know, let's screw that and go get children" finale). Instead, she acts all sulky and hurt and as if she did nothing wrong, and it is him who must change, get back to her and give her what she wanted. And that left a very bad taste in my mouth.
Exactly! It’s not that this act was put in the show, I think audiences see SA in a lot of shows nowadays. To me it was the fact that they added this conflict to a romance show. I want to root for the character’s love and I couldn’t root for them anymore after that scene. I had to suspend disbelief and ignore the bad taste it left in my mouth to finish the season. I love everything else Bridgeton does, but that particular conflict made me so mad. It’s not a matter of the times, it’s that I just watched SA (of the main love interests!) when I’m supposed to be watching a romance show.
I loved your review! I hate it when viewers and readers don’t get that normal modern morals and views DO NOT apply with fantasy or fictional time pieces. This was a great job.
They absolutely do apply.
@@mishynaofficial How? It’s a PERIOD FANTASY show.
@@YenShively romanticizing abuse is not ok.
@@mishynaofficial no one is romanticising abuse 😔 But I understand that media literacy and reading comprehension is lacking in the educational system. The reviewer literally explained this in detail towards the end of the video but you probably didnt watch it to the end.
@@reading1713 The show romanticizes abuse. Daphne SA and victimblamed Simon, and for that she was rewarded with them getting back together. She literally gave him a new PTSD to his old CPTSD, and you are going here like "no one romanticizes abuse🥺". How many of you would want to continue relationship with someone who SA you? Fr?
Really nice to hear a review that doesn't just shit on the show and views it in context!
I agree with your take on the scene between Daphne and Simone that so many didn’t agree with I think it plays on here naivety and her lack of understanding of relationships…she is really just a girl who is thrust into a situation of having too get married at the age of 17/18 it’s sad and I think so many people miss that…
I definitely preferred both Season 2 and Queen Charlotte. So far, Season 3 has been disappointing to me
Same! I felt like I was the only one until watching his videos, and reading the comments on each one. Reddit is just an echo chamber of how AMAZINNNNNG season 3 is and I just don’t see it.
Actually, Marina's storyline is a set up for one of the Bridgerton Siblings romance. It sets up that Sir Phillip Crane married out of duty and it was a loveless marriage with Marina.
I think he knows because he showed to sir phillip with love in the video at that part but I could be wrong
Simon 100% knew what he was doing when he said it like that, she literally did not know how babies are made, and he knew that.
Genderswapping, sure, if she held all the power, had all the knowledge, and he had her level of ignorace, it could be argued they could reconcile, although the fact she would still bear the physical dangers of pregnancy it would never be a completely equal situation.
I also don't think she was actually trying to conceive, I read it as a woman desperately trying to find out if her husband was lying to her.
It was 100% SA, but people saying it would be the same if the characters were swapped are just plain wrong, in this world, with these characters, it wouldn't even come close to compare.
They really needed to deconstruct it way more, I completely see how ppl think Daphne got away scot free, I too think she should have been more confronted with what she did, and how damaging it was. And ultimately they could've just omitted it entirely, there are many ways they could've gotten the same conflict, even if it was very effective, it definitely damages the show as a whole.
I would really recommend Laura Crone's vid on that scene, she pretty much put all my thoughts into words.
Damn, I never thought much about the opera singer’s performance🤣I think Jonathan Bailey makes everyone look worse because of how good he is
I think the people who say that Simon was not shown as a victim and that only Daphne was miss some of the nuance of what is going on. Daphne is a victim. She is a victim of the society that she is a part of. She should have never been forced to marry so young and be thrust into married life completely unprepared. At the same time however, Simon is not the reason she is a victim. He did not do this to her. Her anger is completely misplaced. As well, being a victim of something or having a bad thing happen to you, does not mean that it is suddenly okay to do bad things to other people. What Daphne did was very much not okay. And by modern standards, I think they should have broken up-- gender swapped or not. But i completely agree with you that we cannot ignore historical context. Daphne would not have been arrested for what she did. All the consequences she could recieve were social and emotional.
I believe people are mad at this scene precisely because they could not accept this "love story" if it was gender swapped. At least that is what I saw in the discussions I watched. Daphne didn't suffer consequences, as in, he forgave her without her even taking accountability. He accepted that actually he's the problem, which he was not. She does not deserve a happy ending, she did not earn it. And the fact that she got it is completely out of the blue. The audience didn't buy this love after that. That's the issue. Anyway. The grape scene was completely unnecessary from a narrative point of view too (Simon could just accidently not pull out in time and freak out and they would still have their conflict without absolutely shattering their lives forever). They should have just taken it out, as they did with other problematic things from the orignal books.
The only things I don´t like in that season are:
1. Simons stutter. They could´ve executed that better and more realistically and even sometimes more clearly that he still stutters.
2. THAT scene! They could´ve easily rewritten it even slightly more so that Simon doesn´t say "whait" to Daphne and instead fully enjoys it throughout the whole act and doesn´t realise what happened until AFTER it´s already over
3. The age gap between Simon and Daphne. In the book (set in 1813) Simon is 29 and Daphne is 21, meaning they have an age gap of 8 years. But in the show (also set in 1813) Simon is still 29 but Daphne is now 18/19 AND in her first season meaning she basically just became a grown up and JUST was introduced to society. Like I´m glad that they aged down Colin so him and Pen could have a smaller age gap (in the books they have a 5 years age gap and lets be real: falling in love with a woman you met when you were 21 and she was 16? gross) but this led to this 10 to 11!!!!! years age gap between Simon and Daphne
There was no reason for the r4pe scene. The same situation could've happened without Simon getting violated. Pulling out has never been a good contraceptive, why not play on that ?
I think it's good to show that men can be victims too though, to SA/non-consent. Yeah, pulling out is not a valid method of contraceptive, there's nuance.
@tan89284 ik it's good show male victims, but it's also good to show consequences. I know this is the regency era, and there would be none, but as a show for modern audiences, the show shouldn't paint daphne in a positive/normal light.
@@tan89284but the problem is that they don’t portray simon as a victim. they make daphne one. and what’s even worse is that in szn 1 they tried to frame the show as progressive for having black characters and yet don’t address the fact that a white woman raped a black man and got away with it/ got what she wanted in the end. if they rlly wanted to they could’ve had a rlly good conversation abt race, sexual assault and gender but all the “progressiveness” was just for show and they just didn’t rlly care
Quite true. As Marshall says in the video, it is a good example of withdrawn consent, however the main conflict could have occurred simply if Daphne had confronted Simon about their miscommunication.
It's literally in the book. I think the producers chose to keep that bit in the book, which I heard was much worse.
Simon didn't say stop. He said wait Daphne. Slightly different I know. Thank you for raising the 'modern morals' topic. Im tired of reading comments stating it was deliberate SA.
Modern morals, absolutely. Its clearly a very specific situation where sex education doesn't exist and we can't judge it by modern standards. But your argument that he says "wait" instead of "stop" isn't it. Enthusiastic yes or it's assault, if not by the letter of the law then by morality. It's not just a pedantic argument to make, it's implying that as long as a victim saying "wait" instead of "stop" the perpetrator isn't guilty. Daphne doesn't understand what she did and we can't play by the rules of modern morality, but your argument is not the reason why.
With the discussion of the sex scenes through the female gaze, I thought that the sex scene between Penelope and Colin in Season 3 was AMAZING!!!!!!! Not the fingering in the carriage scene, but the scene in the room where they will eventually be moving into. The dialogue, pacing, gentleness, I felt like it was very true to a lot of people's first experiences and so respectful.
In regards to gender swapping, I think it would have been completely different. I don’t think they would have understood what she did as SA in those days because it wasn’t the act he was objecting to, it was the potential for a baby. If it were a woman saying no in the middle back then, it would be because of the act itself rather than that (unless she was specifically saying she doesn’t want the partner to ejaculate inside her). I couldn’t really believe it when he said that he thought she knew why he was doing that, so to me he did play on her ignorance, whether that was unconsciously or intentionally. I do think that it would have been better for them to be more explicit in the argument about it though, so that viewers had more of an insight into how Simon felt by that, even after when they returned to London. I think it would have been really powerful to talk of it openly and explain to Daphne (and by proxy the viewers), the impact that had on him, but also allow an opportunity for Daphne to also put forth her perspective of it, so that the viewer would understand that she doesn’t understand it to be withdrawn consent through her narrow and ignorant (or more time-appropriate) view of all that. Remember, she asked her maid about it who though may have been a bit more informed, was probably not all that knowing herself when it came to sex given that she was probably unwed and had probably been in service for a long time, with likely no chance for her own relationships. We should feel uncomfortable and it should make us question the right and wrong of it in general, as a point of conversation as you discussed.
I don’t rly like the gender swapped argument because pregnancy is something that happens to a woman, not a man. Does that make sense? Simon didnt want a child because of trauma, a woman wouldnt want a child because it would mean months of intense physical pain and (during bridgerton times) spending the rest of her life caring for the baby.
about the daphne/simon SA situation... it's so frustrating when people act like daphne (who didn't even know what sex was until her wedding night, not to mention consent and all its ethics and intricacies that obviously should NOT be taken lightly) was acting from a place of informed malice when she did what she did. of course i have to spell out the obvious that it WASN'T okay [before the people who i'm talking about come for me under this comment]; but please, guys, try to have a more nuanced and contextual perspective about things. she couldn't have understood the gravity of hurt her actions would cause to simon because she was so in the dark about it all and feeling confused/vulnerable herself, believing that simon intentionally withheld crucial information from her about childbirth. was it his fault? no, and (OBVIOUSLY) he didn't deserve to have his withdrawn consent ignored. although not the same, i could liken it to young lady danbury in queen charlotte for instance. the sex scenes with her and lord danbury are so uncomfortable to watch because we know she didn't want to be there and that raises issues about enthusiastic consent as well - but i'm not up in arms about that because DUH, the times they were living in put women like lady danbury in a position where they sometimes (unfortunately) had to endure relations with men whom they often were not attracted to and who treated them in subhuman ways simply to ensure their security and standing in society. in summary, i personally i did not have a problem with how that scene was portrayed; anyone with brain cells understands that it's not "glorifying abuse" like i saw another comment say, it is just portraying the harsh realities of the time and potential consequences of how men/women were problematically socialised in that era.
Subscribed!! I really really enjoyed this video. I love video essays on movies and tv shows and I watch them all the time- and you are very talented. First of all, I laughed out loud when you said Simon’s face is the face of someone who’s seen an iPhone 😂😂😂. But also, I can tell you’ve taken time to formulate your perspective. I’m a friendly space ninja subscriber, and I think you made a very fair point about his commentary. I love your questions to the audience - they’re more thoughtful than the usual “how would you rate” endings. Anyways, keep making content!!! 10/10
Thank you so so much! Really appreciate this!
Glad I could make you laugh!
Season 2 video out tomorrow if you’d like to watch!
10/10 comment ☺️☺️
I've been really enjoying your reviews. Great insight and food for thought!
Thank you for commenting on the Friendly Space Ninja video god it was annoying me so much and I usually love his content so this was disappointing
I literally fought a whole group of women on threads about Simon bruh like how he was way better than Daphne and how Simon had all the chemistry and Daphne was so plain like??? How jealous of a fictional character are you??
I agree with you wholeheartedly 💯
Excellent review and analysis.
He has the face of someone who's seen an iPhone 😂😂😂😂
I don't understand what he meant
hahaha this was fun because I also remember thinking the friendlySpaceNinja review was really weird at the time. Like I wasn't even that big a fan of season 1 but for none of the reasons he gave.
You are kinda fresh with your approach to videos. Love it.. 😍. Watching from Assam, India..😊 Such great thoughts and opinions..
Thank you so much!!
The intro is awesome!!! And they onlybshow it once in the 1st episode of the season then show the title card every episode after. And I was shocked it was Penelope that was behind the whole Whistledown reveal. But I do feel the reveal was done too soon & should have been saved for the 1st episode of the 2nd season
Very on point review again! But i do have one point i'd like to add. I hadn't followed the retracted consent discussion, just watched the show. But if Daphne was taken to task so harshly for her actions, it does signal to me that many viewers are missing a HUGE aspect of the "marriage mart" in those times and that is that Daphne would have been 15 or 16 her first year 'out'.... This is why i have to turn off a certain button in my head to truly enjoy watching Bridgerton and why i loved the second season so much (Kate was 26, thank god). These were grown ass men looking for a wife amongst literal children... Perhaps it is because this is not explicitly mentioned ever (i think) and the fact that all of the actors who portray these "young ladies" are clearly in their 20's, but it is always in the back of my mind when i watch the show. Even at the beginning of season 2 when Anthony is Tindering through town auditioning every possible young lady for potential bride material, he's being very dismissive of them to his brothers, but i'm sitting there going like : WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT, MY GUY?? YOU ARE LITERALLY DATING CHILDREN. Anyway, that was just my 5 cents :-) Great video, love your takes on these shows just as much as i enjoy watching the shows themselves. Like you said, they're not perfect but such a fun watch.
Looking back, I think this is the point where it all went wrong for season three
The reveal of Lady Whistledown
I agree, it was not necessary for her to be revealed so soon
Instead, Penelope could have been just existing in the background giving you an idea that she's upto something
Make it secretive
It would have taken some of her best scenes from season 2, especially with Eloise
But. Maybe it would have ultimately saved season three, which is, you know, an entire season compared to a few scenes where Penelope is the main character...
i think the opening was actually more like anne with an e (also netflix original) but in that context it was really “autumn” coded and so it was less bright but it was still just as kitschy and cute…okay yes i do kinda like the bridgerton opening but i LOVE anne with an e tbh and i like that aesthetic and i like that bridgerton is like the “spring” version of that opening. i wouldn’t be surprised if the same people worked on it, but i have no idea.
i remember watching friendly space ninja’s bridgerton video when it first came out and not thinking much of it, but looking back there was a lot of terrible analysis i simply didn’t absorb at the time or really push back on cause i just went “eh, agree to disagree” due to the fact that i liked most of his videos 😭 if i had watched that video for the first time now, i definitely would’ve either quit watching or left some very strong opinions in the comments 😅
On the withdrawn consent, gender-swap question: I don't think I could root for them anymore. I think the double standard has reasons behind it, though. If she had been forced to conceive, it would have been her body carrying the baby. I think that makes an incredible difference.
Also, there is an interesting question brought up in a recent review of Bridgerton S1 of how much Daphne could even have understood that what she did was SA when she barely understands how sex and babies work *and* she lives in a society where her own body is not entirely recognized as her own. Just look at how Anthony feels responsibility and control over it as he tries to sell her off on the marriage market and then tries to kill someone who may have tarnished its purity.
I was also thinking the opening credits are tacky as...they remind me of the ones from 'Anne with an E' but it makes sense for Anne with an E coz its about a child and its hipstery and woodslandy
Anthony is my least favorite main character (even after Season 2), and he is a straight-up asshole in Season 1. But to be fair to him, he doesn't insist on the Duke marrying her because he personally sees her as "tarnished" because of a consentual kiss. It's because she could be socially ruined by it. If anyone saw them even being alone together, which we later find out someone did, it would ruin not only Daphne but the entire family. No one would marry her, and likely no one would marry any of her younger sisters either. And for women in those days, remaining unmarried was a one-way ticket to an even worse life and less choices and power than they already had. So he wasn't just dueling him for daring to kiss his sister, but for potentially ruining any chance she or her three younger sisters have for any kind of meaningful and fulfilling life.
Also, I think it's hilarious that your whole sarcastic imagining of how they expected people to respond to the Whistledown reveal... that was my exact reaction! I get that it didn't feel earned to you, but it absolutely did to me. I think this is just one of those you-can't-please-everyone things, like people's preference for different couples. To me, the end of the first season was the perfect time to reveal it, and set up so much dramatic irony in Season 2 (one of the very few things I enjoyed about Season 2, tbh)
I appreciate your nuanced take on the SA between Daphne and the Duke, but I also think there's more to be said about Daphne's ignorance. It does not seem reasonable that Simon, who has literally had to teach Daphne everything about sex, and who has witnessed her visible confusion after at least one of his pull-outs, would assume that she understands the mechanics of how babies are made. He absolutely took advantage of her complete lack of experience and knowledge, whether he did so consciously or not. And expecting her to have a modern grasp of consent, and especially the nuances of someone enthusiastically participating until the last minute, when the most forward thinking people of her time wouldn't have seen it the way we do, and she didn't even have a grasp of even the basic mechanics of sex and reproduction, is incredibly unfair. I'm not defending what she did at all. She was 100% in the wrong. But she would have had no concept of the magnitude of this.
Which is why I think your gender-swapping theory has to take into account all the differences between their situations. If Simon was the completely inexperienced partner, whose only knowledge of sex was what his much more experienced (and older, and more powerful) wife had explained to him, I think I would still see it the same way: absolutely wrong, but something that could and should be worked through, rather than simply casting him as the villain and casting him out.
You handled this sensitive topic very well.
I'm an Antony stan.
“The show is dated” it’s a PERIOD drama! Of course it is
Honestly, it is so right of you to ask about if it was genderswapped! Because, i only realized that... no, I would not find myself rooting for them in the end
It is a double standard
But acknowledging that, there's also, you know, differences if a woman was forced to have a child and if a man was forced to father a child
Because pregnancy develops in women so it's worse because you're also violating her body for giving birth while having sex against her consent
But also, I concede it is not wholly that
If it was genderswapped, I would not be this hesitant to acknowledge it was Daphne in the wrong
Due to our mindset regarding women being violated, your immediate reponse is to shut down that
But... not with men
I still find myself thinking back to how Daphne's also gotten injustice done because this was not what she had signed up for
But, if it was a man, I don't think I would've given him that grace, I would've immediately thought, 'Nothing warranties doing something against your partner's consent'
For both it would not be okay to force the other one to finish. However we all now that the pull out game is a very weak one. If they had continued like that, sooner or later, she would probably have conceived.
Which makes me wonder if he would have doubted her fidelity, believing it couldn’t be his .. product.
Watching these vids backwards from your Season 3 Part 1 review and I have to say, I LOVE your beef with Friendly Space Ninja's reviews because I've always thought he is just a wanna be CinemaSins with how much he hates every show centered around women or anyone who ARENT exactly like him. His first Bridgerton was the last thing i ever watched from him, not because I love Bridgerton (honestly its not my thing) but because he is just such a bad faith critic. Love to see other creators who are unafraid to call that behavior out.
It can be addictive, the show. I am trying to stay away from Bridgerton to stay away from romance on crack.
I’m currently an Addict 😢
@@marshallstannus Its all ok. This is a safe space. I am a l ittle embaressed to say due to the lack of romantic life on my end at 50 yrs, I can easilly fall into the romantic (harlequine romance novel on crack) genre a little too easily. I didn't watch Season 2 thinking I'll be strong .... and one day ... 1 year after S02 aired... there is an (maybe 30 sec) clip of Kate and Anthony being a little feral ... I relapsed into only watching Anothony and Kate and thier passionate tingly moments on RUclips... I think maybe 4 or 5 xs each (sighing and wishing as though I was 13 and boy crazy all over again)... might as well watched the series. I recently learnt SPOTIFY plays some audio books if your a subscriber. I indulged and started litening to the audio book for #3. However I learnt the romantic stranger in the television series doesn't make an appearence in the book .... so I might have a very hard relapse when Season 3 airs. Re: your comment about Pen being the writter and it wasn't a big reveal, I am curious if the reveal was spread out in the books - as by 3 it is known who she is.
same 😭🤣🤣🤣
I like the point about the first season being more for a younger audience and the second one for a bit more mature viewers. I don't like the first one so maybe I'm biased (or too old! :-D)... And also I don't feel any chemistry between Daphne and Simon. Second season is my favorite mainly because of Simone Ashley and Jonathan Bailey, they are superb.
The best shows have elements of tension and flawed characters. We can't have watchable shows without conflict. I'm also a fan of the content creator you referenced for his production value and interesting personality and perspective. However, I often feel his criticisms are a bit woke ( An over used term, but it fits here.). If we squeeze out all of the human foibles and deeply flawed character traits, what will we have? We'll have a bland show where everyone says and does the correct thing and that's not interesting and doesn't spark thought nor conversation.
For instance, is there a conversation to be had about the gender swap of consent withdrawal? I say yes. Would i be able to show grace for his character in this circumstance? I think i would if it had all played out similarity, meaning they eventually remained a couple in love. Why not? If we are to be okay with the woman being the offender then we should be ok with the male as well in this particular situation. Does that mean im advocating for any of this to play out in real life? Of course not, but the world of fiction is a safe place to have these conversations and wonderings.
Thank you so much for this I totally agree! Feels like we’re on the same page with a a lot of this!
Season 1 is still my favorite of the series. I'm not that fond of Seasons 2 and 3.
I’ve unsubscribed from space ninja whatever the name is. He doesn’t understand what he’s talking about 😢
Ummm the showrunner chris van dusen literally said: "at the end of the day, this show is for a moderm audience...theres a modernity to everything we're doing..." so everyone saying "we cant apply modern standards to this" - that goes directly against what the showrunner wanted.
Plus Simon was under the impression that Daphne knew about how babies are made. He literally says this. Yes he told her about masturbation to introduce her to sexual pleasure, but the whole reproduction side of sex was supposed to come from her mother, which Simon would have been aware of as that was the process: mothers prepared daughters for the process of child rearing.
Everyone saying he trapped Daphne - that was her plan as much as his. When he says: "why do you think I followed you into that garden?" She responds with: "why do you think I went into that garden? It is you I cannot sacrifice..." here she means she doesn’t care if kids aren't an option - she loves Simon too much. She also later says: "I have everything I need right here." Simon was under the impression that she had been told about reproduction but didn't care because she loved him too much.
Even if all this wasn't true - sexual assault is not the way to go about it. She had the proof he was lying at that point with the handkerchief, and could have just confronted him with it.
And saying Daphne needs to be separated from the actress true, but her attitude to the rape scene immediately turned me off: "I didn’t [find it disturbing]... we are just telling a story". Plus her performance was very wooden and squeaking and gasping all the time but that's jusy my opinion I don't find that sort of bland performance appealing at all.
Basically it freaks me out the way people go to such insane lengths to justify Daphne committing rpe and I feel I need to ask - "you know the whole plot could have happened without rpe???"
Edit: during the time their "relationship falls apart" he still gives her head on the stairs.
If they really wanted to show simon at the victim the next episode should have been from his POV, but every chance they get to take us further we have to go off with Daphne looking sad. Plus even an apology from her would have shown some growth.
not going to lie, I did a double take when he mentioned his girlfriend
WHAT?? I just started this video & you’re sayin people were raggin on it??? WHHHAAAATTT??!!!
22:42 but its not the same world. Its been modernized and changed. Its fantasy. Its why their clothing styles are not accurate to the time, they have black people mixing with white with black people having titles etc in London. So you cannot hold everything from those times as being set in stone. Those could have been changed somewhat as other aspects have been very liberally. She assaulted him and he got gaslit and she got her happy ending. And almost no watchers seemed to care because there is a "me too" movement happening so many are ready to get behind, but view when it happens to men differently somehow....
THANK YOU. Even the showrunner wants us to view it in a modern lense!!! All these people saying "it was a different time" are just plain wrong in this case.
I hate season 1. I rewatched season 2 before season 3 but I can not go to watch season 1. I really don’t like Daphne’s character after what she did to Simon. I just felt like she hadn’t even acknowledged what she had done. She blamed Simon for not giving her children when he literally refused to marry her stating he couldn’t give her children. She was the one who brought it on herself as Simon actively tried to not marry her because of this.
It's a strange one. It says we celebrate all the cultures, but refuses to make any of Bridgerton or other important characters to represent LGBTQ+ and leaves women to be completely inequal to their spouses.
I can't get over the female>male r4pe scene that the writers and media glossed over in this season, sorry.
The love story is so disappointing.... it looks like they got married just as a favour to her and then learner to get along.. kind of...