My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ruclips.net/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/видео.html Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ruclips.net/video/b4buJMMiwcg/видео.html Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ruclips.net/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/видео.html Shaun’s recent 3rd video: ruclips.net/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/видео.html Laura Kate Dale's recent protest speech outside the BBC offices: ruclips.net/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/видео.html
Hi, I am interested in your views on BBC News and you say their support of Transphobia. Now, as someone who is British myself, I do want to point out there is a HUGE difference between the BBC News arm and the production arm which makes Doctor Who among many other TV shows. BBC Studios, who produce Doctor Who are a 100% commercial subsidiary arm of the BBC, and have nothing to do with the licence fee funded BBC which includes BBC News. Just because the BBC logo is there, there is a mountain of difference in management and attitudes between the two parts of the BBC. So, maybe it is slightly unfair to open videos with a personal opinion on an arm of the BBC which has nothing whatsoever to do with the production of Doctor Who. Now before you blast me, I am from the LGBT+ community myself and I 100% support ALL rights for EVERYONE whatever gender you wish to be. I support it all. I just think it is slightly unnecessary to commence a Doctor Who episode review video with that opening statement. Just my thought, I know you will not agree, and that is fine. I just felt I had to make this statement. With love from the UK.
My Quick Review: Overall just kinda ranged from meh to good. Some of the CGI screams "Made in Covid", but that's alright. What I *really* liked was the scene with Jodie and Yaz near the end. Turns out when Jodie isn't running around constantly talking and takes a moment to be still and solemn, she proves that she absolutely can play The Doctor, she is just constantly written like a child with no attention span. My overall trend of how much I like Jodie's Doctor tends to be that I *much* prefer her when she's slower and calmer, a lot heavier. It feels so much more powerful and doctor-esque than what we usually get.
@@benjamindavis4974 I think he could have been fantastic in either role but his Master is written either as the Joker or as a toddler depending on scene which is just not working
I was shocked that she could act. I don't know why she's so manic all the time. Was it the direction? I just got that annoying manic voice. Why would Yaz even fall for her? She's kind of repulsive in that respect.
I agree, It's been a recurring problem for Chibnall, the 45/50 minute runtime is a detriment. Especially since this is a special, there's no reason this couldn't be at least 75 minutes. At points it feels things have been cut out and poorly edited around. Wouldn't be surprised if there's enough removed scenes to make an extended cut.
@@benjamindavis4974 Is it known if it was a single segment/scene cut or random moments, for me there's alot of small elements which felt poorly edited, missing shots messing with continuity.
"I don't...trust Chibnall to handle a lot." I laughed when you said that because I think a lot of us had that exact same thought when we saw the "next time" trailer. Like, "It's great to have all this stuff back but...it's the final episode, and...Flux..."
Loved the River Song reference. "You're one of the greatest people I know, including my wife" 'Your what?' "It was a long time ago, I was a different man back then"
Which was odd. Of all the companions the Doctor has had, Yaz is among the best? Up there with Rose, who he almost declared his love for. On par with Clara, who he cheated the laws of time for. Romana 2. Sarah Jane. Yaz the gaping potato is one of the best. First the old guy with cancer, now the Doctor, gushing their admiration. Sure she is.
@@ErikZidowecki She said Yaz was among the best people she knows, not that she was among the best companions. I'm sure the Doctor considered all of their companions among the best people they know. That's why they travel with them.
@@bluepolarbear The Doctor didn't always have a choice in who traveled with him. Ian and Barbara forced their way on. Polly and Ben entered the TARDIS to return a key when it took off. Dodo wandered in. Adric snuck aboard. Etc. If by traveling, a companion becomes seen to be "among the best", then it's not really objective. I guess in that case, being stuck with Yaz earns her that praise.
The thing that annoys me about Thasmin is the opposite problem to the usual Doctor romances. Usually the Doctor's age makes them have way too much maturity and life experience for a human to even comprehend what a relationship with them would be like, but in 13's case she seems too immature to be in a relationship with Yaz. She acts like a child and Yaz kind of sees her as one too, and when she was explaining why her and Yaz couldn't be together all she had to say was "it's going to hurt eventually" even though that's true of literally every relationship. Them being kept apart doesn't feel tragic like 10 and Rose did, it just makes me feel relieved. I'm all for having immature incarnations of the Doctor but it needs to be intentional on the part of the writers and I don't think it is in this case
It certainly felt like an episode originally planned for Flux but then scrapped and then unscrapped at the last minute. Just glad that we got 50 minutes of who we're never supposed to have as well as some Sea Devils in our NuWho.
I think they _could_ have explored Thasmin a lot more even at this point. The only thing you'd need to do is keep Yaz around after the regeneration, at least for a little bit. Similar to Rose sticking around, though I wouldn't expect the relationship to survive the regeneration this time. That said, I liked the conversation where 13 told Yaz that she can't do the romance thing. I don't like how they got there to begin with, nor did I like that conversation being held while frantically disarming the whatever, but I liked the conversation.
When the episode entered into its final confrontation, me and my friend genuinely looked at each other like “wait it’s already ending?” It felt like it was half the length it actually was. If it was longer I really think it would be great, there were so many great things I wish had the time to expand on
For all its short livedness I think the Doctors reasons for not pursuing the relationship cut to the core of her character. Her fear of pain explain her social awkwardness her distancing from her companions. Of all the Doctors she is still the most secretive and detached. In this story with Yaz we find out why. So yeah the Thasmin thing is late introduced but the theme of an oddly distanced Doctor has been there since her first episode. Given that Bill, River, Nardole and to an extent Clara were all lost to him you can see why she would know and fear the pain of loss if she gets too close.
My biggest problem I've decided is two-fold although its holistically a whole bunch of lacking. Dialogue is so clunky: its either explaining plot or explaining motivation (and by that I mean theyre explaining why things are happening as theyre happening, we may as well be reading cliffnotes, or its explaining why characters are doing things as they do them rather than naturally setting them up) Focus: I've often mentioned they keep throwing in side characters with genuine dilemmas and arcs and either zap them away or kill them off and they rarely impact any arc the main characters are going through (Im glad theyre actually addressing Yaz/Doc but nothing about the sea devils story naturally affects this). So really ... the drama just isnt there most of the time. It feels like the characters know full well they're in a story and that they have to make sure you're following it. "How is that happening ... unless ... of course!" "what is it doc?" "technobabble!" No matter where we go or what we do, theres this fakeness filter disrupting suspension of disbelief for me and even with the high energy episodes, the pacing and the exposition and the acting just forcing me to take every story at face value. I legit feel like I'm watching a school play that hasn't rehearsed nor redrafted, so everyone feels like theyre re-enacting a story they know they're in directly for the camera; even the strong emotional stuff is boxed into 'once per episode' like its mandated rather than real people living real lives. I guess my central problem is things rarely feel organic. And when they do, I think 'what a great moment!' but theres no overall point... Also i can't believe they had someone sacrifice themselves for the doctor AGAIN. This really bugged me, made me feel they've legitimately given up, they give side character arcs more time than the main arcs then discard them without care.
You could feel the plot convenience, and complacency in how quickly the doctor abandons Dan. But, the lingering problem, of the doctor's wildly whirling moral compass, as a Sea Devil was killed immediately following a life and death sword fight. It just reminds me, of the issues I had with how Jodie's doctor was written. Chris Chibnall doesn't understand the basic character of the Doctor!
I was fully expecting an “I like you but I can’t” conclusion to Yasmin/Doctor, was not one of the people who expected more… but I at least expected Jodie to give it a bit more emotion! It’s such a similar speech to Ten to Rose in School Reunion, it was the same sentiment, but he gave it so much more gravity and heartache, and this storyline is missing that. I don’t *believe* the Doctor likes Yas but I did believeTen loved Rose and Eleven/Twelve loved River
I wonder if this is perhaps because the Doctor has learned to guard her heart? I feel like emotional distance/deactivation as self defence, as someone who has felt so much loss, may have been what Jodie could have been channelling here. Her heart would ache as much, but she won't let it.
The good: Honestly, most of it The bad: Sword fight choreography Thasmin Too short runtime It wasn't great, but it was a pretty good episode of Who. It had a good premise, good performances from the cast, a nice Sea Devils update, some really nice visual shots like the Tardis on the ocean floor. I largely found it enjoyable. In regards to Thasmin, I don't like it because nothing we've seen from Yaz makes me believe The Doctor would fall in love with her. She calls Yaz "one of the most amazing people" she's ever met, but we've seen nothing from Yaz to make me buy into that. I could buy it with Rose because she helped heal The Doctor's post-Time War trauma. I could buy it with River Song because she's part Time Lord and basically on his level and she knew his damn name already the first time he met her. But Yaz? Nope. I simply don't buy The Doctor falling in love with Yaz one tiny little bit.
Thing is.... I ended up on the sea devils side. They repeatedly mentioned on all sides that the sea devils were there first before humans and I ended up thinking. Yeh then it is their planet why do humans take over everything. Whoops... But the pacing was so so off. I really liked Ji-Hun’s ending lines tho
You know my biggest issue with this era? It’s the lack of *themes*. The whole purpose of science fiction is to shine a light on real issues experienced in the modern day by regular people in a fantastical setting. The Sea Devils themselves were initially an allegory for indigenous people. This story abjectly ignored that, and that just sums up this whole era. So much focus on plot that there is never any time for anything else except five minutes of characters telling the audience how they feel. Chibnall can do better; I’ve seen that in adrift and the power of three. I guess he just doesn’t think we deserve it
To this day The Power of Three is still the best Doctor Who script Chibnall has ever written, because it contained complex themes in a way his era sorely lacks.
@@thegentleartoffisticuffs6983 when I learned that Chibnall wrote the line “I’m running to you and Rory before you flicker and fade from me” it made me so much more fucking annoyed at this era because there is nowhere near that level of poetic dialogue in it. Maybe writing for Moffat made him up his game?
@@tobylerone4285 Generally episode scripts are overseen by the current showrunner to ensure they fit what the showrunner wants the stories to be. While Power of Three was mostly written by Chibnall, there's little doubt that Moffat had a hand in rewording some lines of dialogue to improve flow. This wouldn't have been enough for a full co-write credit, but it's something that would have happened on most episodes in his era not written by himself. By the same token, RTD did the same to episodes in his own era and also stated that Moffat's episodes required little to no editing from RTD.
@@BlueSparxLPs I thought the same but I remember seeing somewhere Moffat specifically crediting that line to chibnall, saying something like “my biggest regret about that line is that I didn’t write it”
To me, this was the most emotionally touching episode involving Thirteen because we finally see her open up (during the two conversations that she has with Yaz). From the very beginning and during the whole series, she is very reserved in her interactions with companions, always keeps her distance, doesn't tell her companions much, only ever relies on herself, always processes her trauma alone, very often sends the companions away to keep them safe while she faces the risks alone... In everything else, she is so open to everything in the universe, so spontaneous, so direct (and hence socially awkward because she speaks her mind), so hopeful, so believing in love and trust, so child-like and open-eyed... Except for this. And it is a very interesting contrast between her hopeful openness in everything else and her fear of closeness to other people. This fear is always in the air, you can almost touch it. And it is not hard to see how vulnerable she is underneath this distanced appearance, how she keeps that distance exactly to keep the vulnerable core from getting hurt (and also to keep those she loves from getting hurt). I think this contrast makes her character so interesting and so relatable (arguably more relatable than other Doctors, at least for me). And in this episode she lowers her defenses, lets another person see her vulnerability, her fear of getting hurt and of hurting others, and how much she actually wants -- no, needs --- to reach out and to find connection (we saw that need in her behaviour before, but she never spoke about it, never admitted it). And I get why many people do not want the Doctor to have feelings for anyone, but I think that need for connection, for being close to another sentient being (not necessarily in a sexual way, I'm taking about human closeness here), that vulnerability is what makes me (and probably many others) root for her and care about her (if a character was incapable of these things, I would probably not care about them at all). This "I want to reach out to another being but I can't" makes her character more psychologically realistic, more alive. And I think that the storyline with Yaz is the perfect way to explore the Doctor's inner core that she keeps hidden from the world. I do wish that this story had more time to be explored though.
This is an interesting thought! It's nice hearing from another side of the DW fandom that didn't extremely hate the episode because of opinions like these. I myself didn't like the episode as much as I'd hoped but reviews like this help me see the episode in a different light. I think the wierd thing about this episode and Eve of the Daleks was how different they are in treating Thasmin, and how they change the narrative of the ship Eve of the Daleks made it seem as if, because of Thasmin and the Doctor acting like a jerk towards Yaz, that Yaz was actually going to leave the TARDIS Martha-style ("This is me getting out"), but now I'm not sure. Revolution of the Daleks had me thinking that Yaz was going to die, Eve of the Daleks had me thinking that she might just flat out leave, but now I'm really not sure.
In some ways I think this felt like an homage to Classic Who, right down to the clumsy, rubbery-looking prosthetics. But it also feels like it would have been a four-episode serial in the Classic era, whereas here it was edited down to a frenetic pacing level that, as usual, doesn't really work.
I really don’t know what to think of this episode. The pacing and dialogue just seemed really rushed and it definitely wasn’t supposed to be anything other than a mid-season filler episode, which is disappointing considering Jodie only has one episode left. I loved The Curse of the Black Spot but this was underwhelming.
@@joeespin4377 To be fair I enjoyed series 12 more than series 1 and 2 and was very impressed with The Haunting of Villa Diodati, so I try to judge as fairly as I can.
It's okay you can say it sucks. 3 years ago people would have called you a misogynist for saying what you just said. But now that we're getting to the end of Jody Whitaker's run it's okay to admit that Chris and Jody experiment was a unnecessary failure.
@@geraldvance7925 I don’t think it’s been as poor as Graham Williams and RTD’s eras (the historicals have been fairly strong) but it’s nowhere near as strong as Moffat and Hinchcliffe.
@@nocturne8333 In my opinion the show started to go downhill halfway through capaldi's run. I gave Jody Whitaker a shot for the first season but then I lost interest after that. From some of the things I've seen and heard from the timeless child I know I'm not missing anything.
I have one major gripe about this story, and you touched on it in the Sea Devils review... ... ... ... ... ... Did The Doctor *just blow them up*? After Three was such an advocate for inter-species peace? It could be that going along that path AGAIN would be going over the same material time and again, but really...?
I’m not sure she did. What she said the result would be would be making the surrounding area really dense and basically trapping them unable to surface. That said, Dan definitely killed like 6 of them personally.
The biggest issue I had, was that there didn't feel like there was a natural flow between scenes. Like you cut away from characters in one location, and then cut to another scene in another location, and all of a sudden those characters show up there. Besides that, this was unfortunately another okay episode. It was fun seeing the Sea Devil's, really enjoyed the side characters, but overall, it all felt too rushed and disjointed
The bit that got me was the Doctor saying to Yaz that she was the greatest person she had ever known. It disrespected Sarah-Jane, Rose, Donna, Martha, River etc... there is no reason we should believe that because we know nothing about Yaz. It felt like Chibnall trying to force us to like her even though he told us nothing about her
While I don't disagree, I'll point out that Moffat did the same thing through action rather than dialogue when the Doctor almost broke time to save Clara, something he'd NEVER done any equivalent action for with any other companion.
This was a bare percentage fraction as much fun as Robots of Sherwood. For pirate stories, Douglas Adam's The Pirate Planet with Tom Baker and Romana 1 was barely even about (space) pirates but is infinitely more fun and is in comparison a work of absolute genius. Brilliant dialogue, real comedy and an acual interesting concept
Pirate Planet was written by an intelligent, witty and gifted writer, but - sadly - Chris Chibnall is none of those things. "Legend of the Sea Devils" was a huge disappointment to me, even by Chibnall-era standards.
I’m usually kinder to Chibnall’s episodes than you are, but I just got nothing out of this. The Thasmin scene at the end was decent, but this whole thing was such a poorly paced, boring slog. I went into the Chibnall era with so much enthusiasm but for as much as I like parts of S11 and S12, Chibnall’s own output as a writer has consistently sapped that enthusiasm away over the years, and in the last year we’ve got nothing but unfiltered Chibs. I’m ready for this era to over, and I hate to be such a fucking downer but this story did not help.
While I liked the idea of the "land parasite interaction", it feels like they really should've offered an alternate name or something because as is it's the Doctor calling them a slur, them being offended, and then just dropping the whole thing Also the sea monster was called something else, not the myrka unfortunately. I wish it was though
This episode came across like a first draft. Nothing tied together very well. How the hell does the pirate queen sail that ship without a crew!? How does she manages the rigging! How did she tie Dan and the son of the guy who died at the start up and then hang them upside down! How did the Doctor get from below decks on the sea devil ship, all the way through the other sea devils, rig up something so that she can then swing across to the pirate queens ship with Yaz without ANYTHING stopping her? Utterly lazy, rubbish writing.
Suuuuper agree that all of these character needed just a bit more time. I wish I’d seen some of that Ying Ki/his dad’s relationship and got the sense that he wanted a life at sea. I wish he and Madame Ching had bonded with him based on her relationship with her own sons. Seen Ji-Hun caring so much about his crew, maybe some respect or interaction between him and Ching. How ANY of this prompted Dan to reach out to Diane. Yeah it definitely needed more time so these characters and relationships could breathe.
With the 3rd doctor being my favourite, was both excited and worried about the sea devils return. Felt this episode was rushed and bland. For me the doctor discovered the sea devils far too quick, so no mystery with her trying to explore what is going on and who/what is behind it. It's weird because apparently this was apparently going to be Jodies last episode at one point and can't see how that would have worked. Unsure how they'll wrap everything up in the finale. I presume we'll see the Ruth doctor and the doctors memories could come into it. Returning classic companions could be interesting if they have purpose and aren't just there for a fan service cameo
This is certainly one of the more positive reviews I’ve seen. I will say, the sea devils looked and sounded cool, the guest actors were good and Dan was likeable as always. The writing around Yaz and the doctor felt weird. Idk I feel like it all would have worked had Yaz had ya know, any thing other than the bare minimum for characterisation and I felt that 13 was fleshed out, which is not how I should be feeling with one episode left. Their talk about not getting fixed to things gave me ten and rose vibes from School reunion. That said, I’m sure sure the position takes is really one they’d usually go for? The doctor has gotten attached to lots of things, and has been taught, time and time again that it’s worth it. Where this episode is let down is the writing and directing. The writing just seems to skip several scenes at a time, fails to give any character to the guests that isn’t exposition that they say themselves and.feels super rushed. I barely caught what the Sea devils actual plan was. However, the directing is faaaar worse than the writing here. It seems afraid of establishing shots on land, or letting shots breathe. I barely had time to feel the geography of where everyone was standing in relation to other characters throughout the episode. Characters just seemed to pop up next to other characters despite being seemingly further away from them in the previous shot. The action was god awful. It’s amazing how the show could do pirates ten years ago far better than this episode. The movements felt sloppy from every character and not just the sea devils but at the same time the action felt so hard to follow and cut way too much. As I said, the camera just didn’t want to pull further out and show where characters were in relation. I really didn’t want to dislike this episode. I love the history of the pirate queen, she’s seriously bad ass go look her up, and it’s always nice when doctor who does different settings. I like the sea devils and their design had me pumped. But man it just failed with sub par writing and god awful direction. Gotta love how the episode just forgets there’s a sea serpent still chilling around. Anywho here’s hoping the next episode is good. I do want Jodie to have at least a decent send off.
@@CouncilofGeeks first thanks for the reply i appreciateit and she must have known because she told him to use the sword.which is a bit off in its self for the doctor.isnt it? Considering self just told someone off for killing one of them.
I mean, it really *was* hinted at in Flux. I feel one could tell that there were vague hints towards it in a few scenes. The two of them falling together onto a bed, Yaz looking at the hologram of her she... apparently had, and the looks between them at the end of Flux. The issue is, those were such vaaaaaaague hints, and I really wish that had been the bigger focus for Flux, or rather, an entirely different version of S13, because honestly all of these scenes would work word-for-word with just a little *real* build-up. And not "Yaz looked at her lips once 80 minutes of screentime ago", some actual emotional character-driven scenes like the scenes we got in this episode!! Also, I have to agree, with 15 more minutes of runtime and another week in the writer's room, I feel like this episode could've been genuinely *really* freaking good. I even really enjoy most of the Doctor's dialogue and interactions in this episode!
Like, if I hadn't been watching Chibnall's seasons, and you showed me most of the scenes between Yaz and the Doctor, I would've thought this was in a much better romantic storyline.
Pretty average and felt bit rushed? Felt like we just dived straight into the plot in the middle. Did the monster just disappear? I'm not exactly sure what happened to it Also my god those sword fights.
as a hardcore og thasmin shipper, i do agree. yaz's crush has a base to it but the doctor reciprocating? there's hasn't been a whole lot to suggest that. of course, i'm over the moon that it's canon but it would've been nice if it had longer to progress. 🤷♀️
People keep commenting “oh the writing in this episode All over the place typical Chibnal” Errm Well (insert random name here) he didn’t write it… the writing wasn’t all over the place anyway, it’s not normally when he actually does write, he’s an amazing writer… now do I personally like everything he writes no of course not that’s down to individual tastes but I don’t go on the internet and comment under videos insulting him, this is why the Official Doctor who page is a no go zone anymore … I’m just glad some of my favourite creators do more than one topic or I wouldn’t be able to interact on RUclips either… Toxic fandoms man 😕…. That’s not to say the fandom is toxic just the toxic people are loud and toxicity is contagious! rant over!
I would have liked the doctor yaz relationship dynamic of the doctor having feelings but not wanting to be hurt again when the inevitable happens, that's an interesting approach to the doctor and them having a relationship, if it had time to actually be explored. If they were going to do it they should have had Graham bring up the fact that they like each other when him and Ryan left (which as someone who has loved and lost, him saying she should tell the doctor before it's to late makes sense), that way you have a series to fully explore it properly and then have some time where they are together. I'm not super into the doctor having relationships, especially physical (even with the few relationships we've had in the show I can still head canon them as asexual) but the idea that is set up is interesting and it's also once to have the doctor also have a same sex relationship along with their straight relationships. As for the episode, I liked it, it was a standard run of the mill fun adventure, nothing amazing but not bad. Also ace is coming back, she's my favourite companion.
I felt, and said to my friend as we watched it, that Whittaker's writing has never felt so much like Tennant. Both taking over a room with constant talking/identifying all the tech they can see (a little bit 'Girl in the Fireplace'), and giving an explanation/rejection to Yaz reminiscent of the reasoning given to Sarah Jane in 'School Reunion'. If that makes sense.
I found continuity of the doctors hair going from perfectly straight to wind swept from scene to scene at the start of the episode distracting. That sums up i guess how into the storyline i was.
Absolutely 100 % agree with you on the Yaz/Doctor thing needed to be at least a season build up , do not care what shippers say there was nothing in it until an episode and a half ago. on the episode itself i was hugely disappointed with it, maybe on a rewatch i will like it more. To be honest it just past me by i am currently at the stage that this is one of the worst episodes i have seen for a long time, which i hate because this is my favourite show of all time
I agree with how the feelings came out of nowhere, largely it seems because of shippers talking about it and Chibnall seems to have cottoned on to that. Fan service seems to be his thing right now to cover up for his other faults, Flux. They only say it was there early because they wanted to see it earlier IMO. I mean, in one episode they even hinted at Yaz and Ryan. I can't say I found the episode disappointing, for a Chibnall episode it wasn't bad but it also didn't really give me much either. It shouldn't have been the penultimate episode for Jodie though, it was season filler at best.
@@Elwaves2925 I think they wanted Yaz and Ryan and then they looked at the actors onscreen chemistry and possibly behind the scenes chemistry and thought nope this isn’t going to work
Agree that this episode just felt super rushed, like there were quite a few scenes that you could almost tell got cut down. For instance when first meeting the sea devil the doctor and yaz just suddenly had a fishnet trap set up? Then when they escaped the hold of the sea devil ship she just pulled the "go up to sea level" lever and then next shot she yaz and the previously frozen in time guy were swinging onto the other ship with no explanation of how they got out. Its not massive stuff but the story just felt a bit fragmented cos it felt like we were missing key scenes, which made it hard to engage imo.
I like how the Doctor gets so excited over meeting Madame Ching, yet she also finds killing a sea devil in self defense to be morally abhorrent. Like what does she think that pirates do?
The Sea Devil that was stabbed to death was already on the floor. Because the Sea Devil was no longer an immediate threat, this would no longer have been considered self-defense.
Penultimate episode and they shoehorn in the Doctor-Yaz shipping - so what was the point of that? Hearing that Ace is coming back would be better news if it weren't a Chibnall episode - I have zero confidence that he's going to do a decent job of it.
There were rumous on reddit before the episode came out that they had cut around 20 mins out of the episode, that it was originally supposed to be an hour or so long. It was previously described as feature length, but was only about five mins longer than a standard episode. "However, director Haolu Wang’s CV lists it as a 60-minute special airing Easter Sunday, April 17, 2022."
If I had a nickel for every time the a sea devil story involved some characterization between the Doctor and their love interest I would have two nickels. I thought it was fine but i feel like I would've liked it more as part of a normal series. Excited for Ace & Tegan.
I read that they actually cut 10 minutes out of the show we ended up with. If true, It is unknown why they did it or what was actually cut out. I am glad that they kinda used a reworked speech by David Tennant "You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I can't spend the rest of mine with you". That is the curse of the Time Lords".
Sadly my favorite part of this episode was the preview at the end for the next episode showing Tegan and Ace from the JNT era.... But that is partly because I am an older Gen X. LOTSD did have some good moments (especially the TARDIS under the Sea moment) and the updated Sea Devils were spot on...But the plot had that same old CC over thought and under written feel to it...but what else is new because that is the new norm for WHO. The episode shinned best when we were treated to those wonderful (and all too short) "human element" scenes with Ji Hung or when Dan was leaving a voice mail for Di as she calls in to his phone...Great scene! The truly brightest moments were the two sexual tension scenes between 13 and Yaz. I thought both sequences were brilliant but sadly way too little much, MUCH too late. Yaz has been there from episode 1 of 13's era yet I still feel like she has be undeniably wasted. The entire production team just never had the guts to pull the trigger on her character...so sad.
I thought Legend was a perfectly solid episode - decent story, good characters, outstanding directing. While there were a few plot elements that could have used more time, it never feels like a major hinderance to the episode. B. I also felt the Yaz stuff was well handled - that was exactly what I wanted to happen, the best thing that could have happened, and executed well. I hope Yaz gets some sort of hopeful ending at the end of next episode as well, to round things out.
"You are beautiful, you are loved, you are valid" Me, sitting shirtless eating rice with two odd knives like some sort of moobgremlin: "I needed to hear that tonight 🥺"
For the record in case no one else pointed it out, the leviathan thingy is referred to as "Huasen". It's just very rarely and you wouldn't catch it the first time around. It took 2 watches and reading the wiki for me to catch the name.
Frankly, I felt like I was catfished. I read the profile/advert, and I was expecting a longer, swashbuckling high adventure on the seas ... and when I showed up, the date was not what I signed up for: I got a standard length episode that was edited AF, sometimes to the point that it made for an extremely hard watching experience. Much like the Flux, it felt incomplete. There was little investment in the new characters - I did not care what happened to Ji-Hun as he was on the screen for 5 mins (maybe?), and that his choice felt hollow because of that. Ying Ki went from furious to a goofy kid in 30 mins, thanking the woman who started this whole nonsense and was responsible for the death of his father. That felt like childish. An explanation of where Dan learned to fight might have been nice - or have Ji-hun flight and give him more screen time? Most of the new characters might as well not have been there. They felt underused and a waste. For Yaz, I could not believe, after being left in the past in the previous series, she was fine with leaving Dan and jumping in time. Just does NOT make sense. As for the Doctor ... I could not buy that she/they would compare Yaz to River Song. Also, I am tired of companions falling in love with the Doctor. I liked that Clara had BF and wasn't interested. And the end felt completely cut-off. Overall, this felt rushed and incomplete. The special effects on the Sea Devils were done well - minus the jumping one at the beginning. Love the mist and enjoyed all them as the antagonists.
I hope I'm not alone in this, but I felt like the whole section from 13/Yaz arriving back in 1800s to the moment they are given the tour of the 1500's ship could and should have been slimmed way down. I'm not suggesting they cut the relationship building (because I think they've backed themselves into a corner with that plot, and have no respectful choice but to follow through), but the whole interrogation in the underwater cave bit could be cut, as well as the giant fish. Just have 13 say "If the ship's not here, then where is it?" before a shadow looms above them and the TARDIS is caught in a tractor beam or whatever. Production now has to worry about one less set (more time and money for other effects, always good), and it would probably give them another 2-4 minutes of screentime to use, which would hopefully fill some of the many plot holes throughout the episode. I don't think the episode needed more time, I think it needed to spend the time it had more wisely.
Honestly this might be my least favourite Chibnall episode. I thought the acting and directing was awful while the pacing was just unbearably breakneck! Nice to see the Sea Devils but I think they deserved better
The Doctor and Love / Romance -- I tend to feel the Doctor wouldn't get involved with his/her/their companions, or humans in general or other species. BUT -- On the other hand, Gallifreyans and humans are very similar in some ways, and Gallifreyans, like humans, do fall in love, have emotional ties, friendships, enemies, political intrigues, all that. So maybe it's not so unlikely or impossible as some fans think. (I get the reasons why fans object to the Doctor having a romance with companions. Their reasons make good sense too.) -- On the third hand, (what? lol) yes, overdoing it is just as bad as Capt. Kirk's tendency to have a fling with every alien woman he meets. (Exaggerating, but you get the point.) So there's room for multiple fan opinions on the Doctor and Romance. Fourth Hand: (lol) The Doctor is an alien from the past / present / future / timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly, so maybe has different standards on love. Salient Point: Would the Doctor (or all / most / some) Gallifreyans consider cross-species love as "inferior" or other negative connotations? Maybe at least some Gallifreyans would view other species as equally valid and worthy. ...I don't know; the whole "loving an alien" thing is a convoluted fantasy / science fiction (and fanfic) trope, and problematic upon closer, deeper thought. Yet it has always been a thing in human fiction and mythology. (And, side-point, our species of humans interbred with other hominids, so...yeah. --- Wow, I didn't start this thinking I'd post another essay.... :)
I did enjoy the episode and the sea devils return was fun. Not brilliant as it definitely felt a bit rushed for me it should have been an hour. The guest actors did good moments and felt less like cardboard cut outs as can sometimes happen. For future fears I hope they don't kill Yaz off after the Doctor mentioning connecting to someone but being afraid of the hurt that follows.
I agree with you the episode should had been longer than what it was considering it's an Easter special which wasn't even remotely anything to do with Easter. The Sea Devils were fantastic but the story of them was wasted and making them evil which was my biggest problem they were never evil they were just trying to survive. I hate the thasmin scene I don't understand why these young ones love it so much it takes away what makes The Doctor an alien which makes the character interesting I hate there trying to put human emotions onto her.
On your point about the nuts and bolts of connective scenes and what-have-you, I would argue that you don't need to see a character walk through a door to understand they're in a different room in the next scene. While it's true that "running through corridors" is very much the perceived cliché, those scenes were always there to pad out the episodes in question. Of course, that's why characters converse in those moments; to make them necessary. As such, Madam Ching's reappearance on her ship shouldn't be that jarring, I'd have thought. Also: I thought the "not a bad date, am I?" line was both charming and realistic in its awkwardness. Don't forget, this a Doctor who has been consistently awkward when it comes to emotional responses, be it feeling unable to comfort Graham in Can You You Hear Me? to the more personal matters of the heart as here. It's a consistent character moment and very much a British one at that. While it's inaccurate to call us emotionally stunted, we do hide our feelings far more readily than other European countries and the USA, for example. To admit that you have a crush on someone to their face is a very vulnerable feeling, and as this Doctor holds her cards close to her chest, it's perfectly in character to be guarded rather than overt. Also, I have a feeling that the Doctor's inability to process certain things is very identifiable, especially to someone like me who's on the autistic spectrum. As such, I thought the Thasmin stuff was well-written and well-handled.
Except it is super jarring when characters are immediately going “we need to get onto her ship and get to her” because it immediately begs the question “why was she allowed to even return to her ship in the first place???”
@@CouncilofGeeks I didn't find it jarring in the slightest, but that's me. One thing that did stand out to me as a bit odd was when the Doctor, Yaz and Dan used the net to trap the Sea Devil. It's possible I missed the explanation for that, and I've yet to rewatch the episode, so I may get that answered on second viewing. If I notice the Madam Ching point, I'll probably say something about that as well. On a slightly separate point, have you heard the first episode of audio drama Doctor Who: Redacted which debuted its first episode shortly after Legend of the Sea Devils. It's written by Juno Dawson and co-stars Charlie Craggs, both of whom are trans women. It's available on BBC Sounds here in the UK, but if you can find it, it may well be something right up your street. I'd certainly be interested in hearing your opinion on it in the near future.
@@CouncilofGeeks I've just rewatched it, and from what I could tell the moment Ying-Kai and Dan spot Madam Ching's and swim towards it occurs a short while later. Presumably, Ching had moored her ship nearer the shore and then sailed off by that time. It makes sense to me, anyway. Also, although it was my niggle, I think Yaz and Dan clocked the net and saw the Doctor's intent, or the Doctor saw their intent, and it was merely an act of teamwork than anything else. I certainly enjoyed it more the second time around, in any case.
Another well reasoned critique. I think you are right, it feels like it could have been a bit longer as if we are not seeing scenes that are already there but have been removed. Or a bit rushed, a common criticism levelled at some of the Chibnall era episodes, often with justification. I have to say the ‘Thasmin’ issue went exactly where I thought it would despite the sometimes wild speculation that preceded the actual episode. And that’s an increasing problem for me. I don’t watch the vast majority of pre episode speculating (people are excited, that’s great, I get that) but there’s so much of it it feels like the actual thing can’t survive or come close to the hype. Witness the immediate frenzied speculation (not you) on the ‘next time’ segment at the end. I long for the days when I went in ‘blind’ knowing nothing about what was coming up. I plan to avoid as much of the between episodes theorising as I can, but with the interwebs, that’s just about impossible. I’m an old fogey and I long for the good old days!
I didn't see the episode, but get a fair idea of what happened with 13-Yaz. I think their biggest mistake was saying they would address it. It raised the hopes of shippers. If that had just happened organically as a part of the story, I think it would have disappointed less. Also if they couldn't introduce it early on (mostly because the decision was taken too late as a response to shipping - should not have happened - the chemistry simply wasn't there from the start), they should have kept it all in one episode. The expression of feelings by Yaz and a response by the Doctor on why it couldn't happen without making a production out of it if it was a no-go. As specials, there's a very LONG gap between the episodes, giving fans to build it up in their heads instead of "find out next week".
Yes! It should have had an hour, it was the pacing that messed up the episode a bit. I enjoyed it but the pace was off. A bit more time with the town at the start, a bit more of Madame Ching, and more breathing room for Doctor and Yaz pairing in the Sea Devil base (and maybe a bit more of Dan and Ying with Madame as that could have been fun), that 10-15 mins extra with a minute or two extra for the bits I listed, that would have been good for me.
"Yaz crushing on the Doctor should have been introduced earlier" Ma'am, have you SEEN series 11? I'm a simple man. I simply enjoy the Doctor having doomed romances.
Vera commented on that. While there are moments and lines that can be read as Yaz crushing on the Doctor, it's not explicit, nor is it acknowledged by anyone else, and it moves on. It's also just vague enough to be general hero worship with no romantic or sexual element to Yaz's feelings. It was almost as if Mandip Gill was trying to introduce it, but the writers and Chibnall could walk it back for any reason.
Always appreciate hearing your thoughts on all things DW, regardless if we agree on things because that’s what makes this fandom/community fun and interesting and nuanced! I think I personally see and like 13 and Yaz because it gives me a bit Korra/Asami vibes where there are two people who have been through a lot together and we start to slowly see them add extra layers that make it a more developed relationship. We see them explicitly wanting to be around each other more and more, to know/understand/protect one another and simply provide each other comfort. Like even on a “platonic” level, that is something sweet and I can understand how it can be seen as a different version of showing the budding of a romantic ship.
Am example is when the Doctor was stuck in the prison and Yaz has trying to find any clue of where 13 could be and sleeping the extra Tardis. And when 13 finally does show up, the moment of relief and then anger from Yaz. That was (for ME) the moment where I started to think “Wait, are those vibes?” And again! I don’t mean straight to romance, but more so it was opening the doors of possibility that the relationship between Yaz and 13 had more elements to it than previously.
Yaz also reminds me a lot of Martha at times with how clever and quick she is, but also her blatant desire to be with the Doctor (in any capacity she can have 13). But I do think it’s a lot healthier of a relationship because they have had 13 match Yaz’s energy in regards to their desire to want to keep traveling with each other. And I think it’s partially due to them not relying heavy on the romance. Bc in the end, while not opposed to romance in this show, I will agree I don’t like it being the main focus for the most part or even too much of a focus at all unless it’s directly plot related (ie. Amy/Rory or River’s character in general)
I agree. My wife and I both said this story was underdeveloped. It should've been a feature length story. There was so much story that happened off screen. It was a clumsily put together episode though. The biggest example being the death of the sea devil being off camera was just weird.
Yeah I thought that it needed the full hour like the previous special! :) Not really sure why it was shorter tbh :o Loved the Sea Devil design for sure :D (but sadly, that sea monster wasn't the Myrka :( It was called something else I think) Great review!! :D
The time skippery continuity issues bothered me too. A couple of other examples: Bring the SD ship up from the sea floor and jump to the other ship. "Hi fam, we are here and so is an old Asian pirate that we saved from a tube somehow...don't ask." "They have the gem, we need to get back on this flying ship before it descends again." Jump to "okay, we are on the flying ship again"
This one was fun. Overall I agree with the assessment that there are some scenes missing to help with transition. Dan was sidelined more than he has been before, it felt like, which is a shame since he's really fun. But the rapport he has with Yaz is amazing. I want the two of them to keep in touch after their time in the TARDIS is done. I liked seeing Di again as well, since we can see Dan has a reason to go home. Being one of those people who read into and bought into the Thasmin ship from series 11, I liked the progression here. Despite the decision they came to not to do anything but exist in the present, it is a progression because for once the Doctor actually talked about her feelings to Yaz and with Yaz rather than bottling it all up. Honestly, I expected this to end up as a "we acknowledge that we have feelings but we're going to stay friends" thing, and I like that Yaz is mature enough to handle that. Hearing that the Doctor puts Yaz up with, and a little above, River in her estimation was really sweet - bittersweet, because we know how this is going to end to an extent. The TV Movie was the first story I watched in "real time", on airing, and oh, I remember the shock and horror of the fandom when the Doctor gave Grace that "I'm happy and giddy" kiss, and then the sweet, more romantic one later. I do also remember the side of fandom that embraced it fully - I doubt the Wayback Machine has "Warm Gallifreyan Nights" on it, but I used to read the fic that got posted there (lying my butt off by claiming to be over 18 until I did finally turn 18). To say it was controversial is putting things kindly. I do also remember that the fans I saw getting the most upset online and in letters in fanzines were the older men, the ones who gave us "received fan wisdom" and said which older stories were good and which were bad, and the younger, newer fans who didn't have access at the time were kind of stuck with their opinions and summaries, and a lot of that's been re-evaluated in recent years. That next time trailer, though! I was 15 when I first saw the episodes with Ace, and she was meant to be 16, so I glommed onto her character very hard. She and McCoy are my TARDIS team if I have to pick one. I agree, seeing Tegan like that was jarring given how she left the series (Resurrection of the Daleks was one of the first Davison stories I saw, since I got a VHS for Christmas the year I got into Doctor Who, and I've seen it so many times I've lost count). But, we don't know what's happened to her over the last 40 years. The only sad thing about the trailer is that line of Ace's which seems to de-canonize At Childhood's End, which I read last year and ADORED as a continuation of Ace's story. I am the audience that scene of Ace and Tegan is pandering to, and I am beyond psyched to see them back, and possibly working alongside Kate (and I'd love a fanservicey one-liner from Tegan about the Brig to Kate, but that's just me).
I watched this episode yesterday and I have already forgotten half of what happened. The episode didnt make any sense to me, and the story went nowhere. The only thing I really liked about this was The Doctor talking to Yaz at the end, and the humour peppered into the episode. Oh, and Im hyped for the next episode, even though we have a long wait...
Personally, I read “I’m not a bad date am I?” as just something spatted out by the doctor, of which Yaz responded like Martha and the doctor realized that. That’s just how I personally read it. And I think the Thasmine thing is probably going better than we should give it shame for because at the very least (giving Chibnall credit here, but not much I’ll admit) this style of relationship drama hasn’t been done before. They both recognized potential feelings before, they both acknowledged it with each other and talked about ot for the first time so they both know the others’ feelings, however the doctor is going to die next episode. It may be more tear jerking on the scale of “they knew but the universe didn’t let them” you know? Idk that’s just my opinions on it. Every other relationship in the show has had time to be expanded on but in life sometimes things don’t get fully worked on, just a fling that life says “yeah. No. Not this time. Sorry.” And I’m honestly down for it.
I found this episode to be perfectly fine. Not amazing, not awful. It's the sort of episode I would've been perfectly happy with mid-season but which doesn't feel like it earns the title of 'Special'. I feel like maybe the Sea Devils warranted a two-part story for their return, however. Most of the other classic villains got a two-parter reintroduction (Cybermen, Sontarans, Silurians) and I feel like that's the best way of not only establishing them going forward (because presumably they'll be back again), but also honouring their iconic nature for fans of Classic Who. I was similarly disappointed when the Ice Warriors didn't get more play in their reintroduction.
The problem is that this was Road's first TV episode and had to write very quickly for production with the open Easter slot and was in constant consultation with the production over the bare bones of the thing and quickly produced two drafts, with Chibnall finalising the third and final draft for filming. If Road had more time, Road absolutely would have ironed out those beats.
I loved a lot of the elements of this episode, the setting, and the performances of the guest characters, but I just kept finding myself asking "What? How'd we get here? Why do they need to do that? How do they know they need to do that?" and getting taken out of the episode. It's hard to have as much fun if you keep getting snapped out of the show, and I think that's how I've felt for a lot of Chibnall's episodes
I liked the episode in all, the first 20mins were messy as hell with allot of collective tissue between scenes missing or confusingly placed. It definitely needed more time to breathe. It happens many times in the chibs era where you feel it would work better being longer, i think they should release extended cuts on the blu ray (or whatever media you prefer) However once we got into the meat of the episode i enjoyed it. Light hearted and fun with good performances from the core cast (not too sure about a couple of the supporting cast tho) Really liked the end with Yaz and 13 which i felt was very strong and well played with a great deal of heart. the looks between 13 and Yaz were really emotional and powerful. Good episode , but didnt blow me away. The trailer for 13's final tho....................wow, absolutely stunning. cannot wait!
Completely agree that the doctor/yaz thing needed more time in previous episodes as I totally didn't see it coming before the previous episode and I don't want to see the doctor fall for most of the companions as for me it isn't that interesting all the time. After Rose and River we need a number of platonic relationships before going back to any kind of relationship and would be nice that it's someone other than the main companion
So, I might just be desperately looking for some character drama, but when the Doctor mentioned River when talking to Yaz, I just thought "ah, I hope River makes a surprise appearance in the next episode! Shake everyone up a bit!" But then I remembered that, I actually really liked how the Husband's of River Song closed her chapter and don't want that spoiled by some mediocre cameo! But you know, the rule is if you introduce a gun you have to fire it by the end of act three 😗
I feel like the centenary has got to be at least an hour long, maybe even an hour 15. I just don’t think there’s enough space for everything in the next time trailer to be explored in 50 minutes. I don’t want it to feel like Halloween apocalypse because this won’t be continued.
I know it won't happen, but I am still hoping that the Master is able to stop the Doctor's regeneration, Yas loses it and goes in search of Jo Martin's Doctor and we gett a season of Yas and Jo's Doctor trying to save the 13th into the 14th (and then we see Jo's regen into the 3rd). Wishful thinking on my part.
Vera, i agree with you on the Doctor not being romantically involved with the companions....the doctor just wanted a "MATE" (friend) like 10 told Donna.....in classic we could tell Jo Grant had a crush on 3 (but never said, never acted upon), Sarah Jane Smith and Roman 2 had a crush on 4, Perry and Mel had a crush on 6....but in new who 9 kissed Rose to drain the Tardis energy that was killing her, 10 kissed Martha to transfer alien DNA so the Jadoon would be distracted, Donna kissed 10 to shock him for the detox, Amy kissed 11 because she wanted one fling before tying the knot with Rory, and then there was River (great love story) and when she finally kissed 11 his reaction was awesome....but there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO many movies, books, tv shows, comic, stories where a couples fall in love and yadda yadda.....there are so many stories overdone with hetero couples as well....if you want romance and want to see love stories, may i direct you to day time soap operas.....if you go watch the Docudrama about Doctor Who's beginings (An Adventure in Time and Space) starring David Bradley as "William Hartnell".....Verity Lambert (the mother and creator of Doctor Who) created the show to be a vehicle to teach children about History....Verity Lambert had no intention to teach the children about the birds and bees....that's the job of the parents, not Doctor Who
I honestly thought that Yaz was going to die in this episode, seeing as she had finally admitted her feelings to The Doctor. I think it’s safe to assume at this point that she will meet her end along with the 13th doctor in the next special, or if Chibnall is feeling lazy, she’ll get trapped in a parallel universe and never see The Doctor again.
For me, it's an issue I've had with a lot of this era that they tried to fit too much into such short amount of time. It results in no time to breath and take in what's happening. The characters were just frantically going from one scene to the next with high energy levels never dropping below 10. For me it became exhausting to watch.
10:33 YES. I've felt this for years. And all my friends disagree. Also, great seeing you again. Followed you on tiktok but haven't been on there in ages. Your videos made tiktok good for me
This episode has all the bad elements i have come to expect from Chibnall. First draft writing, rushed plot, the Doctor sonicing everything with no reason and The Doctor allowing someone to sacrifice their life. She should stop saying things are impossible. The Sea Devils having a ship is clearly NOT impossible, especially since The Doctor made a bus fly! But here's a new low: abandoning the companion after wondering off. Even though that would get them killed. Crystal Yu was good as the pirate queen Madam Chang hope she returns in a better role in Davies 2 This story has had some of the worst CGI in the era, normally would be overlooked but it was one of the elements Chibnall fans defend this era with so I'm bringing it up. The Sea Devils mouths don't work right even after 50 years 😢 I am so annoyed that The Doctor had to be told they were using Jihun's ship. IT WAS SO OBVIOUS!!!! Glad they used the 70s scream sound effect though Thasmin was never going to work especially this late in the game. HOLY SHIT ACE AND TEGAN ARE COMING BACK!!!!!!
Spoilers for the next time trailers I have a worrying feeling that Yaz has been under the influence of the master’s hypnotism since Spyfall she was with him a lot before it was revealed who he was, in the next time trailer and bbc promo pics she’s paired next to him again, she didn’t seem to have a crush on the Doctor until after that point, it seemed the next Master episode she risked killing herself going through the barrier when she learnt the Doctor was on the other side….
Honestly, this could make Yaz's character more interesting for me? I mean, it's tough when a character 'goes bad' (see: Mike Yates in the Classic series), but it just might give her character more dimension. Then again, it also strips the teeny-tiny shred of agency the character has...so there's that as well.
I'll admit, after I'd first saw the trailer, I WAS HYPED FOR THE MYRKA RETURN! (In my head, I'll still say that sea creature was the Myrka -- as it was, at the very least, the Myrka of my heart).
I totally missed that this was airing. Need to watch it ASAP. From what I've read, most fans seem pretty ambivalent about it--like much of this era--but personally I freakin' *LOVE* giant lizard people.
My video on the issue of the BBC's support of Transphobia: ruclips.net/video/aN4uc0HZrWE/видео.html
Shaun's 1st video, which includes some additional confirmed information: ruclips.net/video/b4buJMMiwcg/видео.html
Shaun’s 2nd video, which follows how the BBC is trying to dodge accountability for all of this: ruclips.net/video/qfjTG6SVjmQ/видео.html
Shaun’s recent 3rd video: ruclips.net/video/fRn1UZ4fhdE/видео.html
Laura Kate Dale's recent protest speech outside the BBC offices: ruclips.net/video/hBjGnWkwAjI/видео.html
Hi, I am interested in your views on BBC News and you say their support of Transphobia. Now, as someone who is British myself, I do want to point out there is a HUGE difference between the BBC News arm and the production arm which makes Doctor Who among many other TV shows. BBC Studios, who produce Doctor Who are a 100% commercial subsidiary arm of the BBC, and have nothing to do with the licence fee funded BBC which includes BBC News. Just because the BBC logo is there, there is a mountain of difference in management and attitudes between the two parts of the BBC. So, maybe it is slightly unfair to open videos with a personal opinion on an arm of the BBC which has nothing whatsoever to do with the production of Doctor Who. Now before you blast me, I am from the LGBT+ community myself and I 100% support ALL rights for EVERYONE whatever gender you wish to be. I support it all. I just think it is slightly unnecessary to commence a Doctor Who episode review video with that opening statement. Just my thought, I know you will not agree, and that is fine. I just felt I had to make this statement. With love from the UK.
While this episode had issues, I can’t deny that I loved the line “no ship Sherlock!”
I’ll admit I chuckled at that.
Yeah, same here, that scene had me cringing but that line came out of nowhere and definitely got a good laugh out of me
Not a big fan of the episode but that was a pretty funny line ngl
I'm also a big fan of the line about history being nothing like the books, "just like Stephen King adaptations".
She had a lot of funny one liners.
My Quick Review:
Overall just kinda ranged from meh to good. Some of the CGI screams "Made in Covid", but that's alright.
What I *really* liked was the scene with Jodie and Yaz near the end. Turns out when Jodie isn't running around constantly talking and takes a moment to be still and solemn, she proves that she absolutely can play The Doctor, she is just constantly written like a child with no attention span. My overall trend of how much I like Jodie's Doctor tends to be that I *much* prefer her when she's slower and calmer, a lot heavier. It feels so much more powerful and doctor-esque than what we usually get.
I think both Whittaker as the Doctor and Dhawan as the Master would benefit _massively_ from being written very differently
@@benjamindavis4974 I think he could have been fantastic in either role but his Master is written either as the Joker or as a toddler depending on scene which is just not working
I was shocked that she could act. I don't know why she's so manic all the time. Was it the direction? I just got that annoying manic voice. Why would Yaz even fall for her? She's kind of repulsive in that respect.
I agree, It's been a recurring problem for Chibnall, the 45/50 minute runtime is a detriment. Especially since this is a special, there's no reason this couldn't be at least 75 minutes. At points it feels things have been cut out and poorly edited around. Wouldn't be surprised if there's enough removed scenes to make an extended cut.
@@benjamindavis4974 Oh dear.
@@benjamindavis4974 Is it known if it was a single segment/scene cut or random moments, for me there's alot of small elements which felt poorly edited, missing shots messing with continuity.
@@benjamindavis4974 Fair enough, for whatever the case, I do feel things were definitely cut.
"I don't...trust Chibnall to handle a lot." I laughed when you said that because I think a lot of us had that exact same thought when we saw the "next time" trailer. Like, "It's great to have all this stuff back but...it's the final episode, and...Flux..."
Loved the River Song reference. "You're one of the greatest people I know, including my wife" 'Your what?' "It was a long time ago, I was a different man back then"
Which was odd. Of all the companions the Doctor has had, Yaz is among the best? Up there with Rose, who he almost declared his love for. On par with Clara, who he cheated the laws of time for. Romana 2. Sarah Jane. Yaz the gaping potato is one of the best. First the old guy with cancer, now the Doctor, gushing their admiration. Sure she is.
@@ErikZidowecki best companion is, was, and will always be Jamie. K9 is a close 2nd. Yaz is ranked somewhere ahead of Adric
@@ErikZidowecki She said Yaz was among the best people she knows, not that she was among the best companions.
I'm sure the Doctor considered all of their companions among the best people they know. That's why they travel with them.
@@bluepolarbear you mean "not that she was the best" you put "among the best" twice. but yeah i completely agree with your comment :)
@@bluepolarbear The Doctor didn't always have a choice in who traveled with him. Ian and Barbara forced their way on. Polly and Ben entered the TARDIS to return a key when it took off. Dodo wandered in. Adric snuck aboard. Etc. If by traveling, a companion becomes seen to be "among the best", then it's not really objective. I guess in that case, being stuck with Yaz earns her that praise.
The thing that annoys me about Thasmin is the opposite problem to the usual Doctor romances. Usually the Doctor's age makes them have way too much maturity and life experience for a human to even comprehend what a relationship with them would be like, but in 13's case she seems too immature to be in a relationship with Yaz. She acts like a child and Yaz kind of sees her as one too, and when she was explaining why her and Yaz couldn't be together all she had to say was "it's going to hurt eventually" even though that's true of literally every relationship. Them being kept apart doesn't feel tragic like 10 and Rose did, it just makes me feel relieved. I'm all for having immature incarnations of the Doctor but it needs to be intentional on the part of the writers and I don't think it is in this case
To be fair maybe the whole Rose thing traumatized the Doctor a bit, and made her afraid of forming new connections.
It certainly felt like an episode originally planned for Flux but then scrapped and then unscrapped at the last minute. Just glad that we got 50 minutes of who we're never supposed to have as well as some Sea Devils in our NuWho.
According to Chibnall, it was meant to be a part of Flux originally until the production got further complicated and they cut back to 6 episodes
I think they _could_ have explored Thasmin a lot more even at this point. The only thing you'd need to do is keep Yaz around after the regeneration, at least for a little bit. Similar to Rose sticking around, though I wouldn't expect the relationship to survive the regeneration this time. That said, I liked the conversation where 13 told Yaz that she can't do the romance thing. I don't like how they got there to begin with, nor did I like that conversation being held while frantically disarming the whatever, but I liked the conversation.
When the episode entered into its final confrontation, me and my friend genuinely looked at each other like “wait it’s already ending?” It felt like it was half the length it actually was.
If it was longer I really think it would be great, there were so many great things I wish had the time to expand on
For all its short livedness I think the Doctors reasons for not pursuing the relationship cut to the core of her character. Her fear of pain explain her social awkwardness her distancing from her companions. Of all the Doctors she is still the most secretive and detached. In this story with Yaz we find out why. So yeah the Thasmin thing is late introduced but the theme of an oddly distanced Doctor has been there since her first episode. Given that Bill, River, Nardole and to an extent Clara were all lost to him you can see why she would know and fear the pain of loss if she gets too close.
My biggest problem I've decided is two-fold although its holistically a whole bunch of lacking.
Dialogue is so clunky: its either explaining plot or explaining motivation (and by that I mean theyre explaining why things are happening as theyre happening, we may as well be reading cliffnotes, or its explaining why characters are doing things as they do them rather than naturally setting them up)
Focus: I've often mentioned they keep throwing in side characters with genuine dilemmas and arcs and either zap them away or kill them off and they rarely impact any arc the main characters are going through (Im glad theyre actually addressing Yaz/Doc but nothing about the sea devils story naturally affects this).
So really ... the drama just isnt there most of the time. It feels like the characters know full well they're in a story and that they have to make sure you're following it. "How is that happening ... unless ... of course!" "what is it doc?" "technobabble!"
No matter where we go or what we do, theres this fakeness filter disrupting suspension of disbelief for me and even with the high energy episodes, the pacing and the exposition and the acting just forcing me to take every story at face value. I legit feel like I'm watching a school play that hasn't rehearsed nor redrafted, so everyone feels like theyre re-enacting a story they know they're in directly for the camera; even the strong emotional stuff is boxed into 'once per episode' like its mandated rather than real people living real lives.
I guess my central problem is things rarely feel organic. And when they do, I think 'what a great moment!' but theres no overall point...
Also i can't believe they had someone sacrifice themselves for the doctor AGAIN. This really bugged me, made me feel they've legitimately given up, they give side character arcs more time than the main arcs then discard them without care.
I’m looking forward to hearing Ace call the Doctor “Professor.”
heres the thin im worried about, yes they are in the trailer but does that mean they get to meet the doctor again?
@@reverse7503 That’s a possibility.
You could feel the plot convenience, and complacency in how quickly the doctor abandons Dan. But, the lingering problem, of the doctor's wildly whirling moral compass, as a Sea Devil was killed immediately following a life and death sword fight. It just reminds me, of the issues I had with how Jodie's doctor was written. Chris Chibnall doesn't understand the basic character of the Doctor!
I was fully expecting an “I like you but I can’t” conclusion to Yasmin/Doctor, was not one of the people who expected more… but I at least expected Jodie to give it a bit more emotion! It’s such a similar speech to Ten to Rose in School Reunion, it was the same sentiment, but he gave it so much more gravity and heartache, and this storyline is missing that. I don’t *believe* the Doctor likes Yas but I did believeTen loved Rose and Eleven/Twelve loved River
I wonder if this is perhaps because the Doctor has learned to guard her heart? I feel like emotional distance/deactivation as self defence, as someone who has felt so much loss, may have been what Jodie could have been channelling here. Her heart would ache as much, but she won't let it.
The good:
Honestly, most of it
The bad:
Sword fight choreography
Thasmin
Too short runtime
It wasn't great, but it was a pretty good episode of Who. It had a good premise, good performances from the cast, a nice Sea Devils update, some really nice visual shots like the Tardis on the ocean floor. I largely found it enjoyable.
In regards to Thasmin, I don't like it because nothing we've seen from Yaz makes me believe The Doctor would fall in love with her. She calls Yaz "one of the most amazing people" she's ever met, but we've seen nothing from Yaz to make me buy into that. I could buy it with Rose because she helped heal The Doctor's post-Time War trauma. I could buy it with River Song because she's part Time Lord and basically on his level and she knew his damn name already the first time he met her. But Yaz? Nope. I simply don't buy The Doctor falling in love with Yaz one tiny little bit.
Thing is.... I ended up on the sea devils side. They repeatedly mentioned on all sides that the sea devils were there first before humans and I ended up thinking. Yeh then it is their planet why do humans take over everything. Whoops...
But the pacing was so so off. I really liked Ji-Hun’s ending lines tho
You know my biggest issue with this era? It’s the lack of *themes*. The whole purpose of science fiction is to shine a light on real issues experienced in the modern day by regular people in a fantastical setting. The Sea Devils themselves were initially an allegory for indigenous people. This story abjectly ignored that, and that just sums up this whole era. So much focus on plot that there is never any time for anything else except five minutes of characters telling the audience how they feel. Chibnall can do better; I’ve seen that in adrift and the power of three. I guess he just doesn’t think we deserve it
To this day The Power of Three is still the best Doctor Who script Chibnall has ever written, because it contained complex themes in a way his era sorely lacks.
@@thegentleartoffisticuffs6983 when I learned that Chibnall wrote the line “I’m running to you and Rory before you flicker and fade from me” it made me so much more fucking annoyed at this era because there is nowhere near that level of poetic dialogue in it. Maybe writing for Moffat made him up his game?
God I forgot he wrote Adrift. That episode is devastating.
@@tobylerone4285 Generally episode scripts are overseen by the current showrunner to ensure they fit what the showrunner wants the stories to be. While Power of Three was mostly written by Chibnall, there's little doubt that Moffat had a hand in rewording some lines of dialogue to improve flow. This wouldn't have been enough for a full co-write credit, but it's something that would have happened on most episodes in his era not written by himself. By the same token, RTD did the same to episodes in his own era and also stated that Moffat's episodes required little to no editing from RTD.
@@BlueSparxLPs I thought the same but I remember seeing somewhere Moffat specifically crediting that line to chibnall, saying something like “my biggest regret about that line is that I didn’t write it”
To me, this was the most emotionally touching episode involving Thirteen because we finally see her open up (during the two conversations that she has with Yaz). From the very beginning and during the whole series, she is very reserved in her interactions with companions, always keeps her distance, doesn't tell her companions much, only ever relies on herself, always processes her trauma alone, very often sends the companions away to keep them safe while she faces the risks alone... In everything else, she is so open to everything in the universe, so spontaneous, so direct (and hence socially awkward because she speaks her mind), so hopeful, so believing in love and trust, so child-like and open-eyed... Except for this. And it is a very interesting contrast between her hopeful openness in everything else and her fear of closeness to other people. This fear is always in the air, you can almost touch it. And it is not hard to see how vulnerable she is underneath this distanced appearance, how she keeps that distance exactly to keep the vulnerable core from getting hurt (and also to keep those she loves from getting hurt). I think this contrast makes her character so interesting and so relatable (arguably more relatable than other Doctors, at least for me). And in this episode she lowers her defenses, lets another person see her vulnerability, her fear of getting hurt and of hurting others, and how much she actually wants -- no, needs --- to reach out and to find connection (we saw that need in her behaviour before, but she never spoke about it, never admitted it).
And I get why many people do not want the Doctor to have feelings for anyone, but I think that need for connection, for being close to another sentient being (not necessarily in a sexual way, I'm taking about human closeness here), that vulnerability is what makes me (and probably many others) root for her and care about her (if a character was incapable of these things, I would probably not care about them at all). This "I want to reach out to another being but I can't" makes her character more psychologically realistic, more alive. And I think that the storyline with Yaz is the perfect way to explore the Doctor's inner core that she keeps hidden from the world. I do wish that this story had more time to be explored though.
This is an interesting thought! It's nice hearing from another side of the DW fandom that didn't extremely hate the episode because of opinions like these. I myself didn't like the episode as much as I'd hoped but reviews like this help me see the episode in a different light.
I think the wierd thing about this episode and Eve of the Daleks was how different they are in treating Thasmin, and how they change the narrative of the ship
Eve of the Daleks made it seem as if, because of Thasmin and the Doctor acting like a jerk towards Yaz, that Yaz was actually going to leave the TARDIS Martha-style ("This is me getting out"), but now I'm not sure. Revolution of the Daleks had me thinking that Yaz was going to die, Eve of the Daleks had me thinking that she might just flat out leave, but now I'm really not sure.
In some ways I think this felt like an homage to Classic Who, right down to the clumsy, rubbery-looking prosthetics. But it also feels like it would have been a four-episode serial in the Classic era, whereas here it was edited down to a frenetic pacing level that, as usual, doesn't really work.
I really don’t know what to think of this episode. The pacing and dialogue just seemed really rushed and it definitely wasn’t supposed to be anything other than a mid-season filler episode, which is disappointing considering Jodie only has one episode left. I loved The Curse of the Black Spot but this was underwhelming.
@@joeespin4377 To be fair I enjoyed series 12 more than series 1 and 2 and was very impressed with The Haunting of Villa Diodati, so I try to judge as fairly as I can.
It's okay you can say it sucks. 3 years ago people would have called you a misogynist for saying what you just said. But now that we're getting to the end of Jody Whitaker's run it's okay to admit that Chris and Jody experiment was a unnecessary failure.
@@geraldvance7925 I don’t think it’s been as poor as Graham Williams and RTD’s eras (the historicals have been fairly strong) but it’s nowhere near as strong as Moffat and Hinchcliffe.
@@nocturne8333 In my opinion the show started to go downhill halfway through capaldi's run. I gave Jody Whitaker a shot for the first season but then I lost interest after that. From some of the things I've seen and heard from the timeless child I know I'm not missing anything.
@@geraldvance7925 I definitely get that. I had to stop watching during the RTD era before Moffat revived the show.
I have one major gripe about this story, and you touched on it in the Sea Devils review...
...
...
...
...
...
Did The Doctor *just blow them up*? After Three was such an advocate for inter-species peace? It could be that going along that path AGAIN would be going over the same material time and again, but really...?
I’m not sure she did. What she said the result would be would be making the surrounding area really dense and basically trapping them unable to surface. That said, Dan definitely killed like 6 of them personally.
@@CouncilofGeeks Yeah, Dan was a bit more kill-y than I would normally expect for this show.
The biggest issue I had, was that there didn't feel like there was a natural flow between scenes. Like you cut away from characters in one location, and then cut to another scene in another location, and all of a sudden those characters show up there. Besides that, this was unfortunately another okay episode. It was fun seeing the Sea Devil's, really enjoyed the side characters, but overall, it all felt too rushed and disjointed
OMG, you're right! I didn't consciously notice it, but something felt weirder than usual about this episode...
The bit that got me was the Doctor saying to Yaz that she was the greatest person she had ever known. It disrespected Sarah-Jane, Rose, Donna, Martha, River etc... there is no reason we should believe that because we know nothing about Yaz. It felt like Chibnall trying to force us to like her even though he told us nothing about her
While I don't disagree, I'll point out that Moffat did the same thing through action rather than dialogue when the Doctor almost broke time to save Clara, something he'd NEVER done any equivalent action for with any other companion.
@@CouncilofGeeks that's true I forgot that. Still we had more character development with Clara than with Yaz
13 mentioned River: “I think you're one of the greatest people I've ever known. Including my wife”
This was a bare percentage fraction as much fun as Robots of Sherwood. For pirate stories, Douglas Adam's The Pirate Planet with Tom Baker and Romana 1 was barely even about (space) pirates but is infinitely more fun and is in comparison a work of absolute genius. Brilliant dialogue, real comedy and an acual interesting concept
Pirate Planet was written by an intelligent, witty and gifted writer, but - sadly - Chris Chibnall is none of those things. "Legend of the Sea Devils" was a huge disappointment to me, even by Chibnall-era standards.
Get the novel version of a pirate planet. It's really good
I’m usually kinder to Chibnall’s episodes than you are, but I just got nothing out of this. The Thasmin scene at the end was decent, but this whole thing was such a poorly paced, boring slog.
I went into the Chibnall era with so much enthusiasm but for as much as I like parts of S11 and S12, Chibnall’s own output as a writer has consistently sapped that enthusiasm away over the years, and in the last year we’ve got nothing but unfiltered Chibs. I’m ready for this era to over, and I hate to be such a fucking downer but this story did not help.
While I liked the idea of the "land parasite interaction", it feels like they really should've offered an alternate name or something because as is it's the Doctor calling them a slur, them being offended, and then just dropping the whole thing
Also the sea monster was called something else, not the myrka unfortunately. I wish it was though
This episode came across like a first draft. Nothing tied together very well. How the hell does the pirate queen sail that ship without a crew!? How does she manages the rigging! How did she tie Dan and the son of the guy who died at the start up and then hang them upside down! How did the Doctor get from below decks on the sea devil ship, all the way through the other sea devils, rig up something so that she can then swing across to the pirate queens ship with Yaz without ANYTHING stopping her? Utterly lazy, rubbish writing.
Suuuuper agree that all of these character needed just a bit more time. I wish I’d seen some of that Ying Ki/his dad’s relationship and got the sense that he wanted a life at sea. I wish he and Madame Ching had bonded with him based on her relationship with her own sons. Seen Ji-Hun caring so much about his crew, maybe some respect or interaction between him and Ching. How ANY of this prompted Dan to reach out to Diane.
Yeah it definitely needed more time so these characters and relationships could breathe.
With the 3rd doctor being my favourite, was both excited and worried about the sea devils return. Felt this episode was rushed and bland. For me the doctor discovered the sea devils far too quick, so no mystery with her trying to explore what is going on and who/what is behind it. It's weird because apparently this was apparently going to be Jodies last episode at one point and can't see how that would have worked.
Unsure how they'll wrap everything up in the finale. I presume we'll see the Ruth doctor and the doctors memories could come into it. Returning classic companions could be interesting if they have purpose and aren't just there for a fan service cameo
This is certainly one of the more positive reviews I’ve seen. I will say, the sea devils looked and sounded cool, the guest actors were good and Dan was likeable as always. The writing around Yaz and the doctor felt weird. Idk I feel like it all would have worked had Yaz had ya know, any thing other than the bare minimum for characterisation and I felt that 13 was fleshed out, which is not how I should be feeling with one episode left. Their talk about not getting fixed to things gave me ten and rose vibes from School reunion. That said, I’m sure sure the position takes is really one they’d usually go for? The doctor has gotten attached to lots of things, and has been taught, time and time again that it’s worth it.
Where this episode is let down is the writing and directing. The writing just seems to skip several scenes at a time, fails to give any character to the guests that isn’t exposition that they say themselves and.feels super rushed. I barely caught what the Sea devils actual plan was. However, the directing is faaaar worse than the writing here. It seems afraid of establishing shots on land, or letting shots breathe. I barely had time to feel the geography of where everyone was standing in relation to other characters throughout the episode. Characters just seemed to pop up next to other characters despite being seemingly further away from them in the previous shot. The action was god awful. It’s amazing how the show could do pirates ten years ago far better than this episode. The movements felt sloppy from every character and not just the sea devils but at the same time the action felt so hard to follow and cut way too much. As I said, the camera just didn’t want to pull further out and show where characters were in relation.
I really didn’t want to dislike this episode. I love the history of the pirate queen, she’s seriously bad ass go look her up, and it’s always nice when doctor who does different settings. I like the sea devils and their design had me pumped. But man it just failed with sub par writing and god awful direction. Gotta love how the episode just forgets there’s a sea serpent still chilling around. Anywho here’s hoping the next episode is good. I do want Jodie to have at least a decent send off.
I don't like how Dan killed lots of sea devil's.and the doctor said nothing about it
I’m not sure she even knew.
@@CouncilofGeeks first thanks for the reply i appreciateit and she must have known because she told him to use the sword.which is a bit off in its self for the doctor.isnt it? Considering self just told someone off for killing one of them.
I mean, it really *was* hinted at in Flux. I feel one could tell that there were vague hints towards it in a few scenes. The two of them falling together onto a bed, Yaz looking at the hologram of her she... apparently had, and the looks between them at the end of Flux.
The issue is, those were such vaaaaaaague hints, and I really wish that had been the bigger focus for Flux, or rather, an entirely different version of S13, because honestly all of these scenes would work word-for-word with just a little *real* build-up. And not "Yaz looked at her lips once 80 minutes of screentime ago", some actual emotional character-driven scenes like the scenes we got in this episode!!
Also, I have to agree, with 15 more minutes of runtime and another week in the writer's room, I feel like this episode could've been genuinely *really* freaking good. I even really enjoy most of the Doctor's dialogue and interactions in this episode!
Like, if I hadn't been watching Chibnall's seasons, and you showed me most of the scenes between Yaz and the Doctor, I would've thought this was in a much better romantic storyline.
Pretty average and felt bit rushed? Felt like we just dived straight into the plot in the middle. Did the monster just disappear? I'm not exactly sure what happened to it
Also my god those sword fights.
as a hardcore og thasmin shipper, i do agree. yaz's crush has a base to it but the doctor reciprocating? there's hasn't been a whole lot to suggest that. of course, i'm over the moon that it's canon but it would've been nice if it had longer to progress. 🤷♀️
People keep commenting “oh the writing in this episode All over the place typical Chibnal” Errm Well (insert random name here) he didn’t write it… the writing wasn’t all over the place anyway, it’s not normally when he actually does write, he’s an amazing writer… now do I personally like everything he writes no of course not that’s down to individual tastes but I don’t go on the internet and comment under videos insulting him, this is why the Official Doctor who page is a no go zone anymore … I’m just glad some of my favourite creators do more than one topic or I wouldn’t be able to interact on RUclips either… Toxic fandoms man 😕…. That’s not to say the fandom is toxic just the toxic people are loud and toxicity is contagious! rant over!
He did write it? Said at the beginning it was written by Ella Road and Chris Chibnall. Directed by someone else yes, but written by him
@@Wurmze Yeah, and I'll bet that while Ella Road wrote BITS of it, it was mostly Chibnall. It had his style all over it. 🤷♀️
I would have liked the doctor yaz relationship dynamic of the doctor having feelings but not wanting to be hurt again when the inevitable happens, that's an interesting approach to the doctor and them having a relationship, if it had time to actually be explored. If they were going to do it they should have had Graham bring up the fact that they like each other when him and Ryan left (which as someone who has loved and lost, him saying she should tell the doctor before it's to late makes sense), that way you have a series to fully explore it properly and then have some time where they are together.
I'm not super into the doctor having relationships, especially physical (even with the few relationships we've had in the show I can still head canon them as asexual) but the idea that is set up is interesting and it's also once to have the doctor also have a same sex relationship along with their straight relationships.
As for the episode, I liked it, it was a standard run of the mill fun adventure, nothing amazing but not bad.
Also ace is coming back, she's my favourite companion.
I felt, and said to my friend as we watched it, that Whittaker's writing has never felt so much like Tennant. Both taking over a room with constant talking/identifying all the tech they can see (a little bit 'Girl in the Fireplace'), and giving an explanation/rejection to Yaz reminiscent of the reasoning given to Sarah Jane in 'School Reunion'. If that makes sense.
Oh, also! I think they've completely set up for Yaz to die
What attraction? There is zero chemistry between Yaz and the Doctor!
I found continuity of the doctors hair going from perfectly straight to wind swept from scene to scene at the start of the episode distracting. That sums up i guess how into the storyline i was.
Absolutely 100 % agree with you on the Yaz/Doctor thing needed to be at least a season build up , do not care what shippers say there was nothing in it until an episode and a half ago. on the episode itself i was hugely disappointed with it, maybe on a rewatch i will like it more. To be honest it just past me by i am currently at the stage that this is one of the worst episodes i have seen for a long time, which i hate because this is my favourite show of all time
I agree with how the feelings came out of nowhere, largely it seems because of shippers talking about it and Chibnall seems to have cottoned on to that. Fan service seems to be his thing right now to cover up for his other faults, Flux. They only say it was there early because they wanted to see it earlier IMO. I mean, in one episode they even hinted at Yaz and Ryan.
I can't say I found the episode disappointing, for a Chibnall episode it wasn't bad but it also didn't really give me much either. It shouldn't have been the penultimate episode for Jodie though, it was season filler at best.
@@Elwaves2925 I think they wanted Yaz and Ryan and then they looked at the actors onscreen chemistry and possibly behind the scenes chemistry and thought nope this isn’t going to work
@@c17sam90 Yeah, I agree. They hinted at it but never took it anywhere, which I'm happy with as they worked better as friends.
why were they dressed like that if they didn’t intend to land there 😭😭😭
100% thought this, myself!
Agree that this episode just felt super rushed, like there were quite a few scenes that you could almost tell got cut down. For instance when first meeting the sea devil the doctor and yaz just suddenly had a fishnet trap set up? Then when they escaped the hold of the sea devil ship she just pulled the "go up to sea level" lever and then next shot she yaz and the previously frozen in time guy were swinging onto the other ship with no explanation of how they got out. Its not massive stuff but the story just felt a bit fragmented cos it felt like we were missing key scenes, which made it hard to engage imo.
I like how the Doctor gets so excited over meeting Madame Ching, yet she also finds killing a sea devil in self defense to be morally abhorrent. Like what does she think that pirates do?
The Sea Devil that was stabbed to death was already on the floor. Because the Sea Devil was no longer an immediate threat, this would no longer have been considered self-defense.
@@Devlinator61116 It looked like it was just knocked down, not surrendered. Also, they can turn into green mist and teleport.
Penultimate episode and they shoehorn in the Doctor-Yaz shipping - so what was the point of that? Hearing that Ace is coming back would be better news if it weren't a Chibnall episode - I have zero confidence that he's going to do a decent job of it.
What made me laugh was the worlds worst fisherman with his floating nets.
Behold - a bounty of foam!
There were rumous on reddit before the episode came out that they had cut around 20 mins out of the episode, that it was originally supposed to be an hour or so long. It was previously described as feature length, but was only about five mins longer than a standard episode. "However, director Haolu Wang’s CV lists it as a 60-minute special airing Easter Sunday, April 17, 2022."
If I had a nickel for every time the a sea devil story involved some characterization between the Doctor and their love interest I would have two nickels.
I thought it was fine but i feel like I would've liked it more as part of a normal series. Excited for Ace & Tegan.
I read that they actually cut 10 minutes out of the show we ended up with. If true, It is unknown why they did it or what was actually cut out. I am glad that they kinda used a reworked speech by David Tennant "You can spend the rest of your life with me, but I can't spend the rest of mine with you". That is the curse of the Time Lords".
Sadly my favorite part of this episode was the preview at the end for the next episode showing Tegan and Ace from the JNT era.... But that is partly because I am an older Gen X. LOTSD did have some good moments (especially the TARDIS under the Sea moment) and the updated Sea Devils were spot on...But the plot had that same old CC over thought and under written feel to it...but what else is new because that is the new norm for WHO. The episode shinned best when we were treated to those wonderful (and all too short) "human element" scenes with Ji Hung or when Dan was leaving a voice mail for Di as she calls in to his phone...Great scene! The truly brightest moments were the two sexual tension scenes between 13 and Yaz. I thought both sequences were brilliant but sadly way too little much, MUCH too late. Yaz has been there from episode 1 of 13's era yet I still feel like she has be undeniably wasted. The entire production team just never had the guts to pull the trigger on her character...so sad.
The Sea Devils called their monster The Skarasen - meaning they controlled it before The Zygons,
It's the Hua-Shen, I believe, not the Skarasen. Although 'skarasen' could be rough translation of Hua-Shen, I suppose.
I'm glad they had the doctor turn yaz down, opens the door for yaz having a martha style exit.
I thought Legend was a perfectly solid episode - decent story, good characters, outstanding directing. While there were a few plot elements that could have used more time, it never feels like a major hinderance to the episode. B.
I also felt the Yaz stuff was well handled - that was exactly what I wanted to happen, the best thing that could have happened, and executed well. I hope Yaz gets some sort of hopeful ending at the end of next episode as well, to round things out.
"You are beautiful, you are loved, you are valid"
Me, sitting shirtless eating rice with two odd knives like some sort of moobgremlin: "I needed to hear that tonight 🥺"
On IMDB it shows that Jo Martin is back as the Fugitive Doctor is also going to be in the centenary special!
For the record in case no one else pointed it out, the leviathan thingy is referred to as "Huasen". It's just very rarely and you wouldn't catch it the first time around. It took 2 watches and reading the wiki for me to catch the name.
I actually like "Warriors of the Deep". There were some technical issues, like the Myrka, but it was still a good story.
@@benjamindavis4974 Didn't say it wasn't :)
Frankly, I felt like I was catfished. I read the profile/advert, and I was expecting a longer, swashbuckling high adventure on the seas ... and when I showed up, the date was not what I signed up for: I got a standard length episode that was edited AF, sometimes to the point that it made for an extremely hard watching experience. Much like the Flux, it felt incomplete. There was little investment in the new characters - I did not care what happened to Ji-Hun as he was on the screen for 5 mins (maybe?), and that his choice felt hollow because of that. Ying Ki went from furious to a goofy kid in 30 mins, thanking the woman who started this whole nonsense and was responsible for the death of his father. That felt like childish. An explanation of where Dan learned to fight might have been nice - or have Ji-hun flight and give him more screen time? Most of the new characters might as well not have been there. They felt underused and a waste. For Yaz, I could not believe, after being left in the past in the previous series, she was fine with leaving Dan and jumping in time. Just does NOT make sense. As for the Doctor ... I could not buy that she/they would compare Yaz to River Song. Also, I am tired of companions falling in love with the Doctor. I liked that Clara had BF and wasn't interested. And the end felt completely cut-off. Overall, this felt rushed and incomplete. The special effects on the Sea Devils were done well - minus the jumping one at the beginning. Love the mist and enjoyed all them as the antagonists.
I hope I'm not alone in this, but I felt like the whole section from 13/Yaz arriving back in 1800s to the moment they are given the tour of the 1500's ship could and should have been slimmed way down. I'm not suggesting they cut the relationship building (because I think they've backed themselves into a corner with that plot, and have no respectful choice but to follow through), but the whole interrogation in the underwater cave bit could be cut, as well as the giant fish. Just have 13 say "If the ship's not here, then where is it?" before a shadow looms above them and the TARDIS is caught in a tractor beam or whatever. Production now has to worry about one less set (more time and money for other effects, always good), and it would probably give them another 2-4 minutes of screentime to use, which would hopefully fill some of the many plot holes throughout the episode. I don't think the episode needed more time, I think it needed to spend the time it had more wisely.
Honestly this might be my least favourite Chibnall episode. I thought the acting and directing was awful while the pacing was just unbearably breakneck! Nice to see the Sea Devils but I think they deserved better
The Doctor and Love / Romance -- I tend to feel the Doctor wouldn't get involved with his/her/their companions, or humans in general or other species. BUT -- On the other hand, Gallifreyans and humans are very similar in some ways, and Gallifreyans, like humans, do fall in love, have emotional ties, friendships, enemies, political intrigues, all that. So maybe it's not so unlikely or impossible as some fans think. (I get the reasons why fans object to the Doctor having a romance with companions. Their reasons make good sense too.) -- On the third hand, (what? lol) yes, overdoing it is just as bad as Capt. Kirk's tendency to have a fling with every alien woman he meets. (Exaggerating, but you get the point.) So there's room for multiple fan opinions on the Doctor and Romance. Fourth Hand: (lol) The Doctor is an alien from the past / present / future / timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly, so maybe has different standards on love. Salient Point: Would the Doctor (or all / most / some) Gallifreyans consider cross-species love as "inferior" or other negative connotations? Maybe at least some Gallifreyans would view other species as equally valid and worthy. ...I don't know; the whole "loving an alien" thing is a convoluted fantasy / science fiction (and fanfic) trope, and problematic upon closer, deeper thought. Yet it has always been a thing in human fiction and mythology. (And, side-point, our species of humans interbred with other hominids, so...yeah. --- Wow, I didn't start this thinking I'd post another essay.... :)
I am in admiration of all of your hands! ;)
I did enjoy the episode and the sea devils return was fun. Not brilliant as it definitely felt a bit rushed for me it should have been an hour. The guest actors did good moments and felt less like cardboard cut outs as can sometimes happen.
For future fears I hope they don't kill Yaz off after the Doctor mentioning connecting to someone but being afraid of the hurt that follows.
I agree with you the episode should had been longer than what it was considering it's an Easter special which wasn't even remotely anything to do with Easter. The Sea Devils were fantastic but the story of them was wasted and making them evil which was my biggest problem they were never evil they were just trying to survive. I hate the thasmin scene I don't understand why these young ones love it so much it takes away what makes The Doctor an alien which makes the character interesting I hate there trying to put human emotions onto her.
On your point about the nuts and bolts of connective scenes and what-have-you, I would argue that you don't need to see a character walk through a door to understand they're in a different room in the next scene. While it's true that "running through corridors" is very much the perceived cliché, those scenes were always there to pad out the episodes in question. Of course, that's why characters converse in those moments; to make them necessary. As such, Madam Ching's reappearance on her ship shouldn't be that jarring, I'd have thought.
Also: I thought the "not a bad date, am I?" line was both charming and realistic in its awkwardness. Don't forget, this a Doctor who has been consistently awkward when it comes to emotional responses, be it feeling unable to comfort Graham in Can You You Hear Me? to the more personal matters of the heart as here. It's a consistent character moment and very much a British one at that. While it's inaccurate to call us emotionally stunted, we do hide our feelings far more readily than other European countries and the USA, for example. To admit that you have a crush on someone to their face is a very vulnerable feeling, and as this Doctor holds her cards close to her chest, it's perfectly in character to be guarded rather than overt. Also, I have a feeling that the Doctor's inability to process certain things is very identifiable, especially to someone like me who's on the autistic spectrum. As such, I thought the Thasmin stuff was well-written and well-handled.
Except it is super jarring when characters are immediately going “we need to get onto her ship and get to her” because it immediately begs the question “why was she allowed to even return to her ship in the first place???”
@@CouncilofGeeks I didn't find it jarring in the slightest, but that's me. One thing that did stand out to me as a bit odd was when the Doctor, Yaz and Dan used the net to trap the Sea Devil. It's possible I missed the explanation for that, and I've yet to rewatch the episode, so I may get that answered on second viewing. If I notice the Madam Ching point, I'll probably say something about that as well.
On a slightly separate point, have you heard the first episode of audio drama Doctor Who: Redacted which debuted its first episode shortly after Legend of the Sea Devils. It's written by Juno Dawson and co-stars Charlie Craggs, both of whom are trans women. It's available on BBC Sounds here in the UK, but if you can find it, it may well be something right up your street. I'd certainly be interested in hearing your opinion on it in the near future.
@@CouncilofGeeks I've just rewatched it, and from what I could tell the moment Ying-Kai and Dan spot Madam Ching's and swim towards it occurs a short while later. Presumably, Ching had moored her ship nearer the shore and then sailed off by that time. It makes sense to me, anyway. Also, although it was my niggle, I think Yaz and Dan clocked the net and saw the Doctor's intent, or the Doctor saw their intent, and it was merely an act of teamwork than anything else. I certainly enjoyed it more the second time around, in any case.
Another well reasoned critique. I think you are right, it feels like it could have been a bit longer as if we are not seeing scenes that are already there but have been removed. Or a bit rushed, a common criticism levelled at some of the Chibnall era episodes, often with justification. I have to say the ‘Thasmin’ issue went exactly where I thought it would despite the sometimes wild speculation that preceded the actual episode. And that’s an increasing problem for me. I don’t watch the vast majority of pre episode speculating (people are excited, that’s great, I get that) but there’s so much of it it feels like the actual thing can’t survive or come close to the hype. Witness the immediate frenzied speculation (not you) on the ‘next time’ segment at the end. I long for the days when I went in ‘blind’ knowing nothing about what was coming up. I plan to avoid as much of the between episodes theorising as I can, but with the interwebs, that’s just about impossible. I’m an old fogey and I long for the good old days!
I didn't see the episode, but get a fair idea of what happened with 13-Yaz. I think their biggest mistake was saying they would address it. It raised the hopes of shippers. If that had just happened organically as a part of the story, I think it would have disappointed less. Also if they couldn't introduce it early on (mostly because the decision was taken too late as a response to shipping - should not have happened - the chemistry simply wasn't there from the start), they should have kept it all in one episode. The expression of feelings by Yaz and a response by the Doctor on why it couldn't happen without making a production out of it if it was a no-go. As specials, there's a very LONG gap between the episodes, giving fans to build it up in their heads instead of "find out next week".
Yes! It should have had an hour, it was the pacing that messed up the episode a bit. I enjoyed it but the pace was off. A bit more time with the town at the start, a bit more of Madame Ching, and more breathing room for Doctor and Yaz pairing in the Sea Devil base (and maybe a bit more of Dan and Ying with Madame as that could have been fun), that 10-15 mins extra with a minute or two extra for the bits I listed, that would have been good for me.
"Yaz crushing on the Doctor should have been introduced earlier"
Ma'am, have you SEEN series 11?
I'm a simple man. I simply enjoy the Doctor having doomed romances.
Vera commented on that. While there are moments and lines that can be read as Yaz crushing on the Doctor, it's not explicit, nor is it acknowledged by anyone else, and it moves on. It's also just vague enough to be general hero worship with no romantic or sexual element to Yaz's feelings. It was almost as if Mandip Gill was trying to introduce it, but the writers and Chibnall could walk it back for any reason.
One more episode and we're done from this mess of an era. Goodbye Jodie Whittaker & Chris Chibnall. The former will be missed but the latter won't be.
Always appreciate hearing your thoughts on all things DW, regardless if we agree on things because that’s what makes this fandom/community fun and interesting and nuanced!
I think I personally see and like 13 and Yaz because it gives me a bit Korra/Asami vibes where there are two people who have been through a lot together and we start to slowly see them add extra layers that make it a more developed relationship. We see them explicitly wanting to be around each other more and more, to know/understand/protect one another and simply provide each other comfort. Like even on a “platonic” level, that is something sweet and I can understand how it can be seen as a different version of showing the budding of a romantic ship.
Am example is when the Doctor was stuck in the prison and Yaz has trying to find any clue of where 13 could be and sleeping the extra Tardis. And when 13 finally does show up, the moment of relief and then anger from Yaz.
That was (for ME) the moment where I started to think “Wait, are those vibes?” And again! I don’t mean straight to romance, but more so it was opening the doors of possibility that the relationship between Yaz and 13 had more elements to it than previously.
Yaz also reminds me a lot of Martha at times with how clever and quick she is, but also her blatant desire to be with the Doctor (in any capacity she can have 13). But I do think it’s a lot healthier of a relationship because they have had 13 match Yaz’s energy in regards to their desire to want to keep traveling with each other. And I think it’s partially due to them not relying heavy on the romance.
Bc in the end, while not opposed to romance in this show, I will agree I don’t like it being the main focus for the most part or even too much of a focus at all unless it’s directly plot related (ie. Amy/Rory or River’s character in general)
I agree. My wife and I both said this story was underdeveloped. It should've been a feature length story. There was so much story that happened off screen. It was a clumsily put together episode though. The biggest example being the death of the sea devil being off camera was just weird.
Yeah was this episode actually shorter than normal episodes? It went really quickly and it felt like there were loads of missing scenes/info
Yeah I thought that it needed the full hour like the previous special! :) Not really sure why it was shorter tbh :o Loved the Sea Devil design for sure :D (but sadly, that sea monster wasn't the Myrka :( It was called something else I think) Great review!! :D
Could have been the Sea Devils may have had their own name for it
@@ryno1509 Oooo maybe! :o
The time skippery continuity issues bothered me too. A couple of other examples:
Bring the SD ship up from the sea floor and jump to the other ship. "Hi fam, we are here and so is an old Asian pirate that we saved from a tube somehow...don't ask."
"They have the gem, we need to get back on this flying ship before it descends again." Jump to "okay, we are on the flying ship again"
This one was fun. Overall I agree with the assessment that there are some scenes missing to help with transition. Dan was sidelined more than he has been before, it felt like, which is a shame since he's really fun. But the rapport he has with Yaz is amazing. I want the two of them to keep in touch after their time in the TARDIS is done. I liked seeing Di again as well, since we can see Dan has a reason to go home.
Being one of those people who read into and bought into the Thasmin ship from series 11, I liked the progression here. Despite the decision they came to not to do anything but exist in the present, it is a progression because for once the Doctor actually talked about her feelings to Yaz and with Yaz rather than bottling it all up. Honestly, I expected this to end up as a "we acknowledge that we have feelings but we're going to stay friends" thing, and I like that Yaz is mature enough to handle that. Hearing that the Doctor puts Yaz up with, and a little above, River in her estimation was really sweet - bittersweet, because we know how this is going to end to an extent.
The TV Movie was the first story I watched in "real time", on airing, and oh, I remember the shock and horror of the fandom when the Doctor gave Grace that "I'm happy and giddy" kiss, and then the sweet, more romantic one later. I do also remember the side of fandom that embraced it fully - I doubt the Wayback Machine has "Warm Gallifreyan Nights" on it, but I used to read the fic that got posted there (lying my butt off by claiming to be over 18 until I did finally turn 18). To say it was controversial is putting things kindly. I do also remember that the fans I saw getting the most upset online and in letters in fanzines were the older men, the ones who gave us "received fan wisdom" and said which older stories were good and which were bad, and the younger, newer fans who didn't have access at the time were kind of stuck with their opinions and summaries, and a lot of that's been re-evaluated in recent years.
That next time trailer, though! I was 15 when I first saw the episodes with Ace, and she was meant to be 16, so I glommed onto her character very hard. She and McCoy are my TARDIS team if I have to pick one. I agree, seeing Tegan like that was jarring given how she left the series (Resurrection of the Daleks was one of the first Davison stories I saw, since I got a VHS for Christmas the year I got into Doctor Who, and I've seen it so many times I've lost count). But, we don't know what's happened to her over the last 40 years. The only sad thing about the trailer is that line of Ace's which seems to de-canonize At Childhood's End, which I read last year and ADORED as a continuation of Ace's story. I am the audience that scene of Ace and Tegan is pandering to, and I am beyond psyched to see them back, and possibly working alongside Kate (and I'd love a fanservicey one-liner from Tegan about the Brig to Kate, but that's just me).
Are you listening to the "redacted" audio? I'd be interested in your opinion.
Funny in warriors of the deep the silurians call them sea devils.
‘For hundreds of years our sea devil brothers have waited…’
I watched this episode yesterday and I have already forgotten half of what happened. The episode didnt make any sense to me, and the story went nowhere.
The only thing I really liked about this was The Doctor talking to Yaz at the end, and the humour peppered into the episode. Oh, and Im hyped for the next episode, even though we have a long wait...
Personally, I read “I’m not a bad date am I?” as just something spatted out by the doctor, of which Yaz responded like Martha and the doctor realized that. That’s just how I personally read it. And I think the Thasmine thing is probably going better than we should give it shame for because at the very least (giving Chibnall credit here, but not much I’ll admit) this style of relationship drama hasn’t been done before. They both recognized potential feelings before, they both acknowledged it with each other and talked about ot for the first time so they both know the others’ feelings, however the doctor is going to die next episode. It may be more tear jerking on the scale of “they knew but the universe didn’t let them” you know? Idk that’s just my opinions on it. Every other relationship in the show has had time to be expanded on but in life sometimes things don’t get fully worked on, just a fling that life says “yeah. No. Not this time. Sorry.” And I’m honestly down for it.
It better be a long episode (the next one).
For the Sea Devils episode, it was fun. I wanted more then fun, though.
It’s being billed as a “feature length” episode so hopefully.
Ace is the badass....she was the companion with the Dalek Buster Bat
I found this episode to be perfectly fine. Not amazing, not awful. It's the sort of episode I would've been perfectly happy with mid-season but which doesn't feel like it earns the title of 'Special'.
I feel like maybe the Sea Devils warranted a two-part story for their return, however. Most of the other classic villains got a two-parter reintroduction (Cybermen, Sontarans, Silurians) and I feel like that's the best way of not only establishing them going forward (because presumably they'll be back again), but also honouring their iconic nature for fans of Classic Who. I was similarly disappointed when the Ice Warriors didn't get more play in their reintroduction.
The problem is that this was Road's first TV episode and had to write very quickly for production with the open Easter slot and was in constant consultation with the production over the bare bones of the thing and quickly produced two drafts, with Chibnall finalising the third and final draft for filming.
If Road had more time, Road absolutely would have ironed out those beats.
I loved a lot of the elements of this episode, the setting, and the performances of the guest characters, but I just kept finding myself asking "What? How'd we get here? Why do they need to do that? How do they know they need to do that?" and getting taken out of the episode. It's hard to have as much fun if you keep getting snapped out of the show, and I think that's how I've felt for a lot of Chibnall's episodes
I liked the episode in all, the first 20mins were messy as hell with allot of collective tissue between scenes missing or confusingly placed. It definitely needed more time to breathe. It happens many times in the chibs era where you feel it would work better being longer, i think they should release extended cuts on the blu ray (or whatever media you prefer)
However once we got into the meat of the episode i enjoyed it. Light hearted and fun with good performances from the core cast (not too sure about a couple of the supporting cast tho)
Really liked the end with Yaz and 13 which i felt was very strong and well played with a great deal of heart. the looks between 13 and Yaz were really emotional and powerful.
Good episode , but didnt blow me away.
The trailer for 13's final tho....................wow, absolutely stunning. cannot wait!
Is it bad that I completely forgot that Flux happened until someone mentioned it?
Completely agree that the doctor/yaz thing needed more time in previous episodes as I totally didn't see it coming before the previous episode and I don't want to see the doctor fall for most of the companions as for me it isn't that interesting all the time. After Rose and River we need a number of platonic relationships before going back to any kind of relationship and would be nice that it's someone other than the main companion
I was surprised by the doctors reaction, to the villain being killed. Just one sentence. Usually the doctor hates, murder and goes off!
So, I might just be desperately looking for some character drama, but when the Doctor mentioned River when talking to Yaz, I just thought "ah, I hope River makes a surprise appearance in the next episode! Shake everyone up a bit!" But then I remembered that, I actually really liked how the Husband's of River Song closed her chapter and don't want that spoiled by some mediocre cameo! But you know, the rule is if you introduce a gun you have to fire it by the end of act three 😗
I feel like the centenary has got to be at least an hour long, maybe even an hour 15. I just don’t think there’s enough space for everything in the next time trailer to be explored in 50 minutes. I don’t want it to feel like Halloween apocalypse because this won’t be continued.
I know it won't happen, but I am still hoping that the Master is able to stop the Doctor's regeneration, Yas loses it and goes in search of Jo Martin's Doctor and we gett a season of Yas and Jo's Doctor trying to save the 13th into the 14th (and then we see Jo's regen into the 3rd). Wishful thinking on my part.
Vera, i agree with you on the Doctor not being romantically involved with the companions....the doctor just wanted a "MATE" (friend) like 10 told Donna.....in classic we could tell Jo Grant had a crush on 3 (but never said, never acted upon), Sarah Jane Smith and Roman 2 had a crush on 4, Perry and Mel had a crush on 6....but in new who 9 kissed Rose to drain the Tardis energy that was killing her, 10 kissed Martha to transfer alien DNA so the Jadoon would be distracted, Donna kissed 10 to shock him for the detox, Amy kissed 11 because she wanted one fling before tying the knot with Rory, and then there was River (great love story) and when she finally kissed 11 his reaction was awesome....but there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO many movies, books, tv shows, comic, stories where a couples fall in love and yadda yadda.....there are so many stories overdone with hetero couples as well....if you want romance and want to see love stories, may i direct you to day time soap operas.....if you go watch the Docudrama about Doctor Who's beginings (An Adventure in Time and Space) starring David Bradley as "William Hartnell".....Verity Lambert (the mother and creator of Doctor Who) created the show to be a vehicle to teach children about History....Verity Lambert had no intention to teach the children about the birds and bees....that's the job of the parents, not Doctor Who
I honestly thought that Yaz was going to die in this episode, seeing as she had finally admitted her feelings to The Doctor.
I think it’s safe to assume at this point that she will meet her end along with the 13th doctor in the next special, or if Chibnall is feeling lazy, she’ll get trapped in a parallel universe and never see The Doctor again.
Perhaps the Doctor will push Yaz out of the TARDIS into the event horizon of a collapsing galaxy.
companions don't die,,, even Clara-belle is still floating out there somewhere with ME
@@RavenThom Spoilers....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Adric.
@@StoicDMV and Katarina.
For me, it's an issue I've had with a lot of this era that they tried to fit too much into such short amount of time. It results in no time to breath and take in what's happening. The characters were just frantically going from one scene to the next with high energy levels never dropping below 10. For me it became exhausting to watch.
10:33 YES. I've felt this for years. And all my friends disagree. Also, great seeing you again. Followed you on tiktok but haven't been on there in ages. Your videos made tiktok good for me
This episode has all the bad elements i have come to expect from Chibnall.
First draft writing, rushed plot, the Doctor sonicing everything with no reason and The Doctor allowing someone to sacrifice their life.
She should stop saying things are impossible. The Sea Devils having a ship is clearly NOT impossible, especially since The Doctor made a bus fly!
But here's a new low: abandoning the companion after wondering off. Even though that would get them killed.
Crystal Yu was good as the pirate queen Madam Chang hope she returns in a better role in Davies 2
This story has had some of the worst CGI in the era, normally would be overlooked but it was one of the elements Chibnall fans defend this era with so I'm bringing it up. The Sea Devils mouths don't work right even after 50 years 😢
I am so annoyed that The Doctor had to be told they were using Jihun's ship. IT WAS SO OBVIOUS!!!!
Glad they used the 70s scream sound effect though
Thasmin was never going to work especially this late in the game.
HOLY SHIT ACE AND TEGAN ARE COMING BACK!!!!!!
Spoilers for the next time trailers
I have a worrying feeling that Yaz has been under the influence of the master’s hypnotism since Spyfall she was with him a lot before it was revealed who he was, in the next time trailer and bbc promo pics she’s paired next to him again, she didn’t seem to have a crush on the Doctor until after that point, it seemed the next Master episode she risked killing herself going through the barrier when she learnt the Doctor was on the other side….
Honestly, this could make Yaz's character more interesting for me? I mean, it's tough when a character 'goes bad' (see: Mike Yates in the Classic series), but it just might give her character more dimension. Then again, it also strips the teeny-tiny shred of agency the character has...so there's that as well.
Only in the Who fandom: Caring about a universally panned rubbish monster like the Myrka, and lovingly so! :D
I'll admit, after I'd first saw the trailer, I WAS HYPED FOR THE MYRKA RETURN! (In my head, I'll still say that sea creature was the Myrka -- as it was, at the very least, the Myrka of my heart).
And it's a other case of the doctor just happily letting someone sacrifice themselves so she doesn't have to,
Yeah, that's definitely a trend we keep seeing, especially with this Doctor. Reminded me of Ko Shamus or whatever his name was.
@@NicoleM_radiantbaby yeah, I feel like 13 is a bit too quick to throw other people under the bus to save herself with nobody questioning it
I totally missed that this was airing. Need to watch it ASAP. From what I've read, most fans seem pretty ambivalent about it--like much of this era--but personally I freakin' *LOVE* giant lizard people.