My money is on the S3. I like the C3, but I hit a problem with the sngle core in having to queue up embedded wifi operations, like sensing a status while in a server operation. The dual core shines there, being that the wifi process runs on a separate core.
For me the Teency 4.1 is still my favourite 600MZ hardware interrupts on all pins other than price, it's still the best one out there. What do you think?
Yes, agree. Its definitely a niece board and lots of power and great peripherals on the Cortex-M7. But…No Wifi6 😊 I think what Espressif delivers in terms of 2.4Ghz features at that price is amazing. And I believe the C6 prices will eventually come down but right now I cannot see that they have a strong competition.
It very much depends on your use case. There are very few applications where you will actually need a 600 MHz MCU. For MCUs in general connectivity is more important than pure clock speed.
The Teensy's are great but are way too sensitive to ESD, I have yet to have one that arrived or remained undamaged from ESD no matter how careful I was. Every one of the dozen or more I have either arrived fried or were fried before I completed testing. Espressif's chips, on the other hand, I can literally toss around, pins exposed, with no ESD shielding and they are fine.
Hi Kiranrs88. I haven't tried it myself but according to Espressif it can be done. However the performance will not be good. There are examples like the esp_zigbee_gateway but its clearly stated: "The example could also run on a single SoC which supports both Wi-Fi and Zigbee (e.g., ESP32-C6), but since there is only one RF path in ESP32-C6, which means Wi-Fi and Zigbee can't receive simultaneously, it has a significant impact on performance. Hence the two SoCs solution is recommended." For a good performance you would need to use 2 ESP32s
Just saying. The S3 runs on VLIW. The code is inherently larger then RISC-V. Thus you will need larger ROM to store the code. And ICache is less affective on the S3.
It seems like those C3/C6 are a downgrade from the S3. With the C6 only benefit these brand new wifi features, unless you really need those, which is probably unlikely, the S3 seems the better choice.
I am working with the ESP-IDF. Havent used the Arduino framework much. If the C6 is not yet supported by the Arduino framework I assume it will be soon.
You should make clear understanding that WiFi 6 in the device works on 2.4 Ghz only, so you never get 9.6 Gbps like on your screenshot. With the device theoretical WiFi speed limit is 574 Mbps
I am not a micropython user so I am not 100% sure. However the IDF 5.1V with official support for the ESP32C6 has been released so maybe it is supported now ?!
@@joaofonseca6083 Yes, all of the older regular ESP32 with Bluetooth 4 supports A2DP and I have personally used it as a "bluetooth speaker" style project. All the "new" versions using Bluetooth 5 LE and have no audio streaming.
feels like Risc-V scene is barely tip-toeing into modernity. 2.4Ghz wi-fi, simply because the intended use-cases are IoT devices with low Net needs _right now._ ...the primary attractiveness is the price-point, but it's like trying to make a tiny house out of *tinker toys.* ...the pace with which these Risc-V manus are crawling *might* lead to an improvement in the mid-tier Alexa hockey puck by 2030...
C6 is like they made few steps forward and few backward. If it only had two cores, it would make more compatible with available code when there are two cores used. Rewrite code to use C6? Most use cases do not require super low power anyway. You can always add more battery , use wifi periodically. Wifi is short range, high bandwidth so wifi low power is rare case. I'm not saying that there aren't such cases but it's rare. There are so many much longer range solutions. Let say you even make such device that has that fancy C6 chip, after 20 m distance you can have no range anyway and it is so much effort to extend it or even impossible or not worth the hassle.
I fully agree with you, code compatibility with previous 2 cores is a problem but I dont think that is the intention with the C6. iTWT is definitely a step forward in power saving with the 802.11ax but it cant compete with BLE or Zigbee at least not what I have tested. Depending on the application and use cases (reporting frequencies) a battery powered WiFi device can benefit from the power savings by extend operating time or with a cheaper battery (less capacity). Depending on the use cases another aspect to consider is OFDMA especially for IoT devices (and many of them in the same network/AP) that dont have a need for large data transfers (Network efficiency increase)
The risk core isn't an that great, i don't know why ppl make a big deal about it. It's basically just "open source" tech, so the manufacturer doesn't have to pay high IP prices. I'd much rather have the dual core of the Extensif. So, I'll always choose that. So many ppl want to work with uP but they know nothing about them. Do your homework! Read data books, spec sheets, etc.
I also don't understand this hype. Jim Keller (you know AMD, Intel, Apple, Tensor(to)rent guy) say it's they can modify architecture, and sell it further, while ARM doesn't want to even hear their feedback. RISC-V is probably more relaxed to certify so he can put sticker on it RISC-V.Because if you go to website.. it's not "free" like BSD but more like MIT licensing. In order to be able put sticker "it's RISC-V processor" they have to approve that.
Big deal IMO is only for Chinease, IMO it's giant hoax, having everyone jumping on RISC-V bandwagon, those who are on board of RISC-V "foundation" mostly bunch of Chinease, are able to read in details about every possible architecture being built in by every possible company out there. Beforehand once they send their product to the RISC-V foundation in order to be certified. I don't know how it works in details i went to websites of both and read license, tried to go trough process of purchasing license. ARM not only provide license it also provide ready made cores. All you have to do is to copy paste. And put whatever you want. Advantage of RISC-V is that you can / have to build cores for yourself , you don't need to pay them for core, you only need to pay to be certified (most probably) Other than pressure - competition, always appreciated, don't see that much of "game changer" ISA or ARM cores is stable tested, proven to be actually supperior to Xtensa! Not that much and Xtensa it's better crafter as product. WHo cares what is inside - until it works. So is RISC-V not that much different. It's as obscure now as any other weird architecture. Power use, performance pew watt. But since ARM is under control of SoftBank now. It's no longer European company but rather controlled by Wallstreet. Choice is not that obvious it's open and free - opensource software is not for free. For example - if you purchase ARM core you already know ARM purchased / licensed all patents used to build their cores. And you don't need to do it separately. Now try to build anything from scratch all of sudden bunch of chienas come to bite you. Pay license pay for this and for that, opensource is just business model these days, IMO actually it helped big companies to grow more than small developers, nothing to hide, everything is open, not possible to maitain milions lines of sourcecode, keep your branch changes in sync, integrate mainline to your project if you not hire people or not paid by some big company that uses your small project in their workflow. Opensource openhardware its helpful, made lot easier to enter market but made difficult to actually survive. In case of Espressif they already had cores, all they had to do is to adopt to RISC-V ISA they had no other choice. On one hand made ISA more common, on other hand forced them to jump on that wagon. Possibly pay to be certified,RISC-V gave nothing except the label.
The main concern is it is from China mainland. And supply will be zero after they finally invade Taiwan. Better start to explore alternatives because that outcome is inevitable.
Nice explanation! Don't know if any PCB services are needed for your upcoming content, if so, would love to sponsor and achieve any collab together! (PCBWay Daisy) 😆😆
Наука
My money is on the S3. I like the C3, but I hit a problem with the sngle core in having to queue up embedded wifi operations, like sensing a status while in a server operation. The dual core shines there, being that the wifi process runs on a separate core.
Hey bro, ty for your time/content will defs support the channel!
This is an excellent TED talk 😊
Very good video, hope to see more of this
excellent content, this stuff is so neat. And I thought my ESP8266 was insane when I got it lol
I respect the people who tinker with the newest versions. I'll wait until MicroPython and ESPHOME are supporting it, thank you 😉
I think it is. A single processor with wifi, bluetooth and zigbee, at that price, is a game changer.
I just learned that I can use my VS Code to upload the code to ESP32 :). Thank you.
for some reason I am not able to compile on macbook M1 - it stops asking for extras ;-(
Nice explanation , i wonder if C6 supports the new protocol ( Matter ) that is implementation of both Thread and Zigbee ?
Based on what I can see from Espressif‘s GitHub the esp-matter software should support the C6. I haven’t tried it myself though, so no guarantees :-)
I am super excited about the Risk cores. But the speed and dual core nature of the Xtensa cores is a huge factor for me.
If we could buy them it would be a gamechanger.
For me the Teency 4.1 is still my favourite 600MZ hardware interrupts on all pins other than price, it's still the best one out there. What do you think?
Yes, agree. Its definitely a niece board and lots of power and great peripherals on the Cortex-M7. But…No Wifi6 😊
I think what Espressif delivers in terms of 2.4Ghz features at that price is amazing. And I believe the C6 prices will eventually come down but right now I cannot see that they have a strong competition.
It very much depends on your use case. There are very few applications where you will actually need a 600 MHz MCU. For MCUs in general connectivity is more important than pure clock speed.
The Teensy's are great but are way too sensitive to ESD, I have yet to have one that arrived or remained undamaged from ESD no matter how careful I was. Every one of the dozen or more I have either arrived fried or were fried before I completed testing. Espressif's chips, on the other hand, I can literally toss around, pins exposed, with no ESD shielding and they are fine.
Hi,
Is it possible to use ESP32-C6 as a gateway for zigbee/thread devices? Have you tried anything like that?
Hi Kiranrs88. I haven't tried it myself but according to Espressif it can be done. However the performance will not be good. There are examples like the esp_zigbee_gateway but its clearly stated:
"The example could also run on a single SoC which supports both Wi-Fi and Zigbee (e.g., ESP32-C6), but since there is only one RF path in ESP32-C6, which means Wi-Fi and Zigbee can't receive simultaneously, it has a significant impact on performance. Hence the two SoCs solution is recommended."
For a good performance you would need to use 2 ESP32s
Danke 🙏
Nice video!
Keep going...
olá professor
You can even have MB of rom to any one of these MCUs, right? Externally connected?
ROM is for uC, not for user
There is a way to use a SD Card as a rewritable "ROM" over SPI. Not sure if that's what you were asking.
You can definitely attach extra flash memory
I cannot believe that we now can have a microcontroller with a coprocessor!
Just saying. The S3 runs on VLIW. The code is inherently larger then RISC-V. Thus you will need larger ROM to store the code. And ICache is less affective on the S3.
You didn’t mention that the ESP32S3 has host and device USB capabilities unlike the others that can just do serial and jtag over usb.
It seems like those C3/C6 are a downgrade from the S3. With the C6 only benefit these brand new wifi features, unless you really need those, which is probably unlikely, the S3 seems the better choice.
Yeah, TWT is worth the added price.
Is it only expressif or Arduino framework?
I am working with the ESP-IDF. Havent used the Arduino framework much. If the C6 is not yet supported by the Arduino framework I assume it will be soon.
You should make clear understanding that WiFi 6 in the device works on 2.4 Ghz only, so you never get 9.6 Gbps like on your screenshot. With the device theoretical WiFi speed limit is 574 Mbps
Can we use micro python on esp c6?
I am not a micropython user so I am not 100% sure. However the IDF 5.1V with official support for the ESP32C6 has been released so maybe it is supported now ?!
The advantage is riscv 😅 😊 *"risc is good" crash override
The C6 with Bluetooth (LE) doesn't support A2DP audio streaming. That to me is a major misstep.
is there an esp32 that supports it?
@@joaofonseca6083
Yes, all of the older regular ESP32 with Bluetooth 4 supports A2DP and I have personally used it as a "bluetooth speaker" style project. All the "new" versions using Bluetooth 5 LE and have no audio streaming.
@@2008synack but Bluetooth LE Audio does exists.
why music?
Why not? :-)
feels like Risc-V scene is barely tip-toeing into modernity. 2.4Ghz wi-fi, simply because the intended use-cases are IoT devices with low Net needs _right now._ ...the primary attractiveness is the price-point, but it's like trying to make a tiny house out of *tinker toys.* ...the pace with which these Risc-V manus are crawling *might* lead to an improvement in the mid-tier Alexa hockey puck by 2030...
it is still too pricey comparing to BL808 which is a monster for same price
I never used the BL808 but the specs are impressive. But it does not support 802.11ax right? A comparison to the ESP32-S3 might make sense.
C6 is like they made few steps forward and few backward. If it only had two cores, it would make more compatible with available code when there are two cores used. Rewrite code to use C6? Most use cases do not require super low power anyway. You can always add more battery , use wifi periodically. Wifi is short range, high bandwidth so wifi low power is rare case. I'm not saying that there aren't such cases but it's rare. There are so many much longer range solutions. Let say you even make such device that has that fancy C6 chip, after 20 m distance you can have no range anyway and it is so much effort to extend it or even impossible or not worth the hassle.
I fully agree with you, code compatibility with previous 2 cores is a problem but I dont think that is the intention with the C6. iTWT is definitely a step forward in power saving with the 802.11ax but it cant compete with BLE or Zigbee at least not what I have tested. Depending on the application and use cases (reporting frequencies) a battery powered WiFi device can benefit from the power savings by extend operating time or with a cheaper battery (less capacity). Depending on the use cases another aspect to consider is OFDMA especially for IoT devices (and many of them in the same network/AP) that dont have a need for large data transfers (Network efficiency increase)
The risk core isn't an that great, i don't know why ppl make a big deal about it. It's basically just "open source" tech, so the manufacturer doesn't have to pay high IP prices.
I'd much rather have the dual core of the Extensif. So, I'll always choose that.
So many ppl want to work with uP but they know nothing about them.
Do your homework! Read data books, spec sheets, etc.
Open source IS a big deal, cause you can develop those CPUs yourself, or fork the project to develop specialized RISK-Vs or whatever you want.
I also don't understand this hype. Jim Keller (you know AMD, Intel, Apple, Tensor(to)rent guy) say it's they can modify architecture, and sell it further, while ARM doesn't want to even hear their feedback. RISC-V is probably more relaxed to certify so he can put sticker on it RISC-V.Because if you go to website.. it's not "free" like BSD but more like MIT licensing. In order to be able put sticker "it's RISC-V processor" they have to approve that.
Big deal IMO is only for Chinease, IMO it's giant hoax, having everyone jumping on RISC-V bandwagon, those who are on board of RISC-V "foundation" mostly bunch of Chinease, are able to read in details about every possible architecture being built in by every possible company out there. Beforehand once they send their product to the RISC-V foundation in order to be certified. I don't know how it works in details i went to websites of both and read license, tried to go trough process of purchasing license. ARM not only provide license it also provide ready made cores. All you have to do is to copy paste. And put whatever you want. Advantage of RISC-V is that you can / have to build cores for yourself , you don't need to pay them for core, you only need to pay to be certified (most probably) Other than pressure - competition, always appreciated, don't see that much of "game changer"
ISA or ARM cores is stable tested, proven to be actually supperior to Xtensa! Not that much and Xtensa it's better crafter as product. WHo cares what is inside - until it works. So is RISC-V not that much different. It's as obscure now as any other weird architecture. Power use, performance pew watt. But since ARM is under control of SoftBank now. It's no longer European company but rather controlled by Wallstreet. Choice is not that obvious it's open and free - opensource software is not for free. For example - if you purchase ARM core you already know ARM purchased / licensed all patents used to build their cores. And you don't need to do it separately. Now try to build anything from scratch all of sudden bunch of chienas come to bite you. Pay license pay for this and for that, opensource is just business model these days, IMO actually it helped big companies to grow more than small developers, nothing to hide, everything is open, not possible to maitain milions lines of sourcecode, keep your branch changes in sync, integrate mainline to your project if you not hire people or not paid by some big company that uses your small project in their workflow. Opensource openhardware its helpful, made lot easier to enter market but made difficult to actually survive. In case of Espressif they already had cores, all they had to do is to adopt to RISC-V ISA they had no other choice. On one hand made ISA more common, on other hand forced them to jump on that wagon. Possibly pay to be certified,RISC-V gave nothing except the label.
The main concern is it is from China mainland. And supply will be zero after they finally invade Taiwan. Better start to explore alternatives because that outcome is inevitable.
Agree, that can become an issue. Stay tuned, I will present a possible alternative shortly!
What alternatives?
The closest Ive seen is TI simplelink and its way more expensive, way less accessible and way more difficult to use.
Nice explanation! Don't know if any PCB services are needed for your upcoming content, if so, would love to sponsor and achieve any collab together! (PCBWay Daisy) 😆😆