theres another fun thing to add to this perspective: in a spirited away Q&A, miyazaki himself says that chihiro's relationship with haku is like "falling in love with a manager". this is because he's warm and kind during the day when yubaba is sleeping (outside of work) but cold and distant at night, as if he doesn't know her (during work hours/at the establishment). i find it funny that the quote he uses to describe them is "what was that about last night?"
What an interesting tidbit. To me it says that Haku's coldness in the workplace is actually to protect his relationship with Chihiro and to protect Chihiro herself, from the opportunists in the bathhouse who might seek to abuse Chihiro for personal gain.
@@jaredloveless definitely agree that he does it to protect not only their relationship but the both of them in general. yubaba cant know about them so he has to act like he doesn't care about chihiro during work. if they had been found out, they would have both been punished. I can somewhat understand it from a workplace perspective, especially with haku's role as a manager requiring that he remain strict and imperturbable at all times.
One other thing is that zeniba and yubaba's designs are identical which is very strange. They have the same exact outfits and accessories, which makes me believe they aren't actually twin sisters, but a physically split yubaba.
That's a really interesting idea! It does seem odd that there aren't even a few subtle differences in fashion accessories or something like that. You may be on to something.
@@littleorphananimeYT hey man this is an amazing project and I like your approach to narrative analysis, congrats on your work :D God bless ya and Jesus loves ya :)
In the Japanese version, the english subtitles have Zeniba say that her and her sister are two halves of a whole but they don't get along. In the english dub when Chihiro is apologizing for Haku, Zeniba says "he sliced me in two you know, and I'm still angry!" (Chihiro asks "what?" but Zeniba has moved onto something else). I think both of these incidents are essentially stating that they are more than just twins without really explaining it
I'm glad you pointed out that bit in the subtitles; I think in the dub it's just "I don't get along with my sister." I always thought Zeniba telling Haku that he sliced her in two was referring to when he sliced the paper doll that was carrying her spirit or astral projection (or whatever it was). I do like this idea of Zeniba and Yubaba being two halves of the same whole: I'll have to think more about that.
I like your analysis that Chihiro doesn't eat the food in the spirit world because she doesn't express greed, but also when her family first arrives and her parents eat the food they're transformed in front of her. I would imagine that is pretty traumatizing as well, perhaps making her afraid of eating in the spirit world. I always find the movie interesting from an international level since Irish culture also has a concept of the Other World, and one of the basic rules to remember is to never eat or drink anything from the Other World because you'll be trapped there. Like anything else the Good Folk may gift, the food is a contract and they're trying to trick you into unknown terms, usually slavery. The stories also stress that food will be bewitched to drive you to eat it, so Chihiro's parents pigging out on random food they find never struck me as odd. Neither did them being turned into pigs because of it. I know the film was never meant to be read in this way, but I do find it to be an interesting angle. And "everything is a contract that you're not allowed to read and if you don't accept it you'll die" is very consumerist/work culture too
Nice insight into Irish mythology there; putting some kind of curse or spell on the food to make it irresistible would make a lot of sense. This also made me think of the Greek myth where Persephone was trapped into going back to the underworld for three months out of the year because she ate three pomegranate seeds while she was there. I think someone could write an entire book just based on how different cultures treat food in the spirit world/afterlife (like the Egyptians and others burying their dead with food so they wouldn't go hungry in the afterlife). Come to think of it, I'd be surprised if someone hadn't already written something like that; I would totally read it.
this is some important insight, very cool! I'm no student of world culture specifically, but I've picked up a lot of stuff here and there, with the office culture (both then and now) in Japan being one of 'em. They've definitely got an extreme that can be dehumanizing and almost psychosis-inducing, to the point where you COULD have two sides to yourself to encase all of that turmoil in one, while keeping the other clean-- but the fact of greed making monsters out of 'monsters' is a well-made message of the movie, and this vid. Yokai are like others unique in supernatural races in that they're simply citizens of a different world alongside ours, and the work place can definitely make some harder changes on 'em, but only in manifestation. I think we could all use that 'river spirit medicine' and 'selfless act' now and then, just by feeling quiet, and helping out for no reason at all, other than being a part of this big family we call the population. I've also got a story I'm writing that has a later chapter involving a yokai onsen called 'Mujinto' that's more of a.. _red light district_ offering under a mountain, but the conflict is from the VIPs showing up to the place for some more 'old-fashioned yokai' fare, AKA eating people. This has given me some helpful ideas, so double-thanks! Don't work too hard now~
I think a lot of people have different sides to themselves--or different masks that they present to society, family, online, etc.--but I agree that extreme conditions can harden those divisions and make one or more of those identities toxic. That story idea sounds like one I would read. Let me know if you make it available somewhere, and good luck with the writing.
@@littleorphananimeYT I wouldn't want to tantalize too much, since the Mujinto chapter is a ways in (even though you see a character from it in the first chapter very briefly), but another detail that I snuck into it is the mountain the onsen is in used to have a different master, Sanda of the Mountain, which... if you've ever seen War of the Gargantuans, might sound a little familiar~ I'll have the first chapter up on Archive of Our Own soon, it's in final edit. I write, but I'm no author... _yet_
fascinating video, im so glad to know that people are still talking about this masterpiece of a movie in new and interesting ways. it encourages me to think about aspects of the movie in different contexts. something that always intrigued me was how easily and readily chihiro gave up the purging medicine to haku and no face even though she meant to save it for her parents. she had the key to getting out of her situation in a quicker manner, yet she decided to split it in half and offer it to others instead. chihiro working to save her parents could be interpreted as them getting into some kind of debt (her parents carelessly consuming or taking from shady figures, forced to give themselves up as payment and only their daughter can free them through arduous work). i interpreted the river spirit's gift as a favor to chihiro, a way to reward and recognize her hard work. something like a rare opportunity given by a wealthy and high-ranking individual to aid someone less fortunate. in this context, i wonder what it means for chihiro to give up such a favor when she was so desperate to save her parents. perhaps she felt that haku and no face needed the help more than her parents did? there's a chance that the consequences for haku and no face's descent into greed would be even more severe than it was for her parents. or maybe it was just something in her nature that pushed her to help others above her own goals. either way, the extent of chihiros humility and willingness to refuse things she doesn't need/give up things that others may need more in that moment is such an interesting character trait. i'd love to hear any thoughts
I agree that there's a lot of similarity to the situation in the movie and one where the parents get into debt and pass along the hardship to their daughter. If I remember rightly, there's a part where Chihiro directly tells No Face that she was saving the gift for her parents, but she thinks No Face needs it more, so that would explain where her mind is at concerning the gift and giving it away. That part where you say there was something in Chihiro's nature that pushed her to help others above herself rings true to me: I think the trials she undergoes in the story bring out those better qualities of her inner nature. Interesting post.
I always found it interesting that there were two river spirits in the film, both with ties to Sen/Chihiro. As rivers/water is a symbol for purification in Shintoism, I wonder if including two of them was indicative of cleansing the two sins of greed and gluttony, as discussed above.
I always wondered why there were two river spirits as well. It seems like such an oddly specific type of creature to have *two* copies of. I really like your suggestion that they are both needed to cleanse those two types of sin.
@@littleorphananimeYT And Sen cleanses them both, and in turn they help her back to the human world. Pretty neat circle of reflection going on there. And in a meta comment, it took the two of us thinking to pull the theory together. Bravo
What I figured out a long time ago was Noface is on that boat. We think we first see him on the bridge but he's on that boat if you watch the movie again you'll see it
I had such a struggle watching Spirited Away when I was a kid due to disgust of certain scenes like when the parents were eating (even before they became pigs).
It certainly seemed like some type of magic or enchantment was involved, but I like that idea that it's so good that they just can't stop. That's me with Swiss Rolls.
That's Baba Yaga. A very interesting aside: the first words babies learn are often the names of close family members, like mama and papa. Many languages share such names, as they follow a fairly strict standard: an easy syllable repeated twice.
In my first draft of the script, I kept calling Yubaba "Baba Yaga" because it had been awhile since I watched it. After I rewatched the film, I had to go back and correct it. 😆
Ohahaha I was just thinking about those opulent rooms were there can be no dust and plastic is on the furniture that I couldn't go in. Yeah that was the grandmother that I wasn't close to who never got me anything never had any moments where she acted like she cared about me and definitely wasn't fun to be around. I think the only thing she did was argue with my mom over cereal and act like she didn't want me there it was weird. But yeah like you said Grandpa figures can be nice
I hadn't thought of that before, but you probably could argue that a lot of workers at the bathhouse are more like Yubaba's prisoners rather than willing workers who choose to be there of their own free will. Interesting idea.
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theres another fun thing to add to this perspective: in a spirited away Q&A, miyazaki himself says that chihiro's relationship with haku is like "falling in love with a manager". this is because he's warm and kind during the day when yubaba is sleeping (outside of work) but cold and distant at night, as if he doesn't know her (during work hours/at the establishment). i find it funny that the quote he uses to describe them is "what was that about last night?"
Ha! I've never heard that (but it kind of makes sense). Thanks for posting it.
What an interesting tidbit. To me it says that Haku's coldness in the workplace is actually to protect his relationship with Chihiro and to protect Chihiro herself, from the opportunists in the bathhouse who might seek to abuse Chihiro for personal gain.
@@jaredloveless definitely agree that he does it to protect not only their relationship but the both of them in general. yubaba cant know about them so he has to act like he doesn't care about chihiro during work. if they had been found out, they would have both been punished. I can somewhat understand it from a workplace perspective, especially with haku's role as a manager requiring that he remain strict and imperturbable at all times.
One other thing is that zeniba and yubaba's designs are identical which is very strange. They have the same exact outfits and accessories, which makes me believe they aren't actually twin sisters, but a physically split yubaba.
That's a really interesting idea! It does seem odd that there aren't even a few subtle differences in fashion accessories or something like that. You may be on to something.
@@littleorphananimeYT hey man this is an amazing project and I like your approach to narrative analysis, congrats on your work :D
God bless ya and Jesus loves ya :)
In the Japanese version, the english subtitles have Zeniba say that her and her sister are two halves of a whole but they don't get along. In the english dub when Chihiro is apologizing for Haku, Zeniba says "he sliced me in two you know, and I'm still angry!" (Chihiro asks "what?" but Zeniba has moved onto something else). I think both of these incidents are essentially stating that they are more than just twins without really explaining it
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.
I'm glad you pointed out that bit in the subtitles; I think in the dub it's just "I don't get along with my sister." I always thought Zeniba telling Haku that he sliced her in two was referring to when he sliced the paper doll that was carrying her spirit or astral projection (or whatever it was). I do like this idea of Zeniba and Yubaba being two halves of the same whole: I'll have to think more about that.
Wow. I have never heard anyone talk about this movie from this perspective. Absolutely blew my mind
Love this
As soon as I had the idea for this, I thought, "Oh, that would be fun to make." Good to know you enjoyed it.
I'm guessing this is all obvious to someone raised in the culture. To me it is wondrous and strange. I love learning more.
I like your analysis that Chihiro doesn't eat the food in the spirit world because she doesn't express greed, but also when her family first arrives and her parents eat the food they're transformed in front of her. I would imagine that is pretty traumatizing as well, perhaps making her afraid of eating in the spirit world.
I always find the movie interesting from an international level since Irish culture also has a concept of the Other World, and one of the basic rules to remember is to never eat or drink anything from the Other World because you'll be trapped there. Like anything else the Good Folk may gift, the food is a contract and they're trying to trick you into unknown terms, usually slavery. The stories also stress that food will be bewitched to drive you to eat it, so Chihiro's parents pigging out on random food they find never struck me as odd. Neither did them being turned into pigs because of it. I know the film was never meant to be read in this way, but I do find it to be an interesting angle.
And "everything is a contract that you're not allowed to read and if you don't accept it you'll die" is very consumerist/work culture too
Nice insight into Irish mythology there; putting some kind of curse or spell on the food to make it irresistible would make a lot of sense. This also made me think of the Greek myth where Persephone was trapped into going back to the underworld for three months out of the year because she ate three pomegranate seeds while she was there. I think someone could write an entire book just based on how different cultures treat food in the spirit world/afterlife (like the Egyptians and others burying their dead with food so they wouldn't go hungry in the afterlife). Come to think of it, I'd be surprised if someone hadn't already written something like that; I would totally read it.
@@littleorphananimeYT The Japanese themselves have this food rule for Yomi (the underworld).
That's good to know: I hadn't heard that before.
Yubaba and Noface were supper terrifying to me when i saw this movie as a kid. The initial 2 acts made me think it was a horror movie at first.
Yes, especially when No Face is going berserk and running through the halls!
Didn't expect to learn much about a movie I've seen a hundred times but I was surprised. Some interesting insights here.
I was hoping to make a few points that aren't in every Spirited Away video, so I'm glad you found some new ideas here.
this is some important insight, very cool! I'm no student of world culture specifically, but I've picked up a lot of stuff here and there, with the office culture (both then and now) in Japan being one of 'em. They've definitely got an extreme that can be dehumanizing and almost psychosis-inducing, to the point where you COULD have two sides to yourself to encase all of that turmoil in one, while keeping the other clean-- but the fact of greed making monsters out of 'monsters' is a well-made message of the movie, and this vid. Yokai are like others unique in supernatural races in that they're simply citizens of a different world alongside ours, and the work place can definitely make some harder changes on 'em, but only in manifestation. I think we could all use that 'river spirit medicine' and 'selfless act' now and then, just by feeling quiet, and helping out for no reason at all, other than being a part of this big family we call the population.
I've also got a story I'm writing that has a later chapter involving a yokai onsen called 'Mujinto' that's more of a.. _red light district_ offering under a mountain, but the conflict is from the VIPs showing up to the place for some more 'old-fashioned yokai' fare, AKA eating people. This has given me some helpful ideas, so double-thanks! Don't work too hard now~
I think a lot of people have different sides to themselves--or different masks that they present to society, family, online, etc.--but I agree that extreme conditions can harden those divisions and make one or more of those identities toxic. That story idea sounds like one I would read. Let me know if you make it available somewhere, and good luck with the writing.
@@littleorphananimeYT I wouldn't want to tantalize too much, since the Mujinto chapter is a ways in (even though you see a character from it in the first chapter very briefly), but another detail that I snuck into it is the mountain the onsen is in used to have a different master, Sanda of the Mountain, which... if you've ever seen War of the Gargantuans, might sound a little familiar~
I'll have the first chapter up on Archive of Our Own soon, it's in final edit. I write, but I'm no author... _yet_
fascinating video, im so glad to know that people are still talking about this masterpiece of a movie in new and interesting ways. it encourages me to think about aspects of the movie in different contexts.
something that always intrigued me was how easily and readily chihiro gave up the purging medicine to haku and no face even though she meant to save it for her parents. she had the key to getting out of her situation in a quicker manner, yet she decided to split it in half and offer it to others instead.
chihiro working to save her parents could be interpreted as them getting into some kind of debt (her parents carelessly consuming or taking from shady figures, forced to give themselves up as payment and only their daughter can free them through arduous work). i interpreted the river spirit's gift as a favor to chihiro, a way to reward and recognize her hard work. something like a rare opportunity given by a wealthy and high-ranking individual to aid someone less fortunate.
in this context, i wonder what it means for chihiro to give up such a favor when she was so desperate to save her parents. perhaps she felt that haku and no face needed the help more than her parents did? there's a chance that the consequences for haku and no face's descent into greed would be even more severe than it was for her parents. or maybe it was just something in her nature that pushed her to help others above her own goals. either way, the extent of chihiros humility and willingness to refuse things she doesn't need/give up things that others may need more in that moment is such an interesting character trait. i'd love to hear any thoughts
I agree that there's a lot of similarity to the situation in the movie and one where the parents get into debt and pass along the hardship to their daughter. If I remember rightly, there's a part where Chihiro directly tells No Face that she was saving the gift for her parents, but she thinks No Face needs it more, so that would explain where her mind is at concerning the gift and giving it away. That part where you say there was something in Chihiro's nature that pushed her to help others above herself rings true to me: I think the trials she undergoes in the story bring out those better qualities of her inner nature. Interesting post.
Nice analysis. I hope you continue in this vein, it was pretty interesting.
Thanks. I'd like to do a mix of different video types, but I definitely plan on more like this.
Kamaji's boiler looks like a grasshopper
I can totally see it with those big dials for eyes.
Awesome analysis. Soooo many things i never realized before. I imagine this video will get many many more views soon
I hope you're right 👍 Glad I could share some new tips about the movie.
I always found it interesting that there were two river spirits in the film, both with ties to Sen/Chihiro. As rivers/water is a symbol for purification in Shintoism, I wonder if including two of them was indicative of cleansing the two sins of greed and gluttony, as discussed above.
I always wondered why there were two river spirits as well. It seems like such an oddly specific type of creature to have *two* copies of. I really like your suggestion that they are both needed to cleanse those two types of sin.
@@littleorphananimeYT And Sen cleanses them both, and in turn they help her back to the human world. Pretty neat circle of reflection going on there. And in a meta comment, it took the two of us thinking to pull the theory together. Bravo
Dope analyse i thought that it would be just okay but you fleshout the themes even further.
Thanks. I wanted to make sure I didn't just mail in the effort for a movie like this.
Lovely analysis!
Lot to think about with this one, makes me appreciate this movie even more
Thanks, I'm glad it gave you some food for thought.
Great movie AND a great analysis, splendid
Thanks, I appreciate that. Definitely a great movie.
What I figured out a long time ago was Noface is on that boat. We think we first see him on the bridge but he's on that boat if you watch the movie again you'll see it
Cool, I'll have to watch for him.
@littleorphananimeYT do you have any social media like Instagram or Facebook. I can send you the picture there
Love the passion, it shows in the work.
The writing and editing take a lot of work, so I'm glad it shows up in the end product.
Cool video, thank you for reminding me how much I love this movie!
Glad you liked it. This is one of those movies that never gets old for me.
Great video!
Thanks!
I had such a struggle watching Spirited Away when I was a kid due to disgust of certain scenes like when the parents were eating (even before they became pigs).
Especially when the dad is eating that thing that's just this bulbous, squishy blob and he looks more like a snake eating a bird's egg.
cool video! :)!
Thanks!
4:56 The food is enchanted. Or maybe it's so good they literally couldn't stop eating after one bite.
It certainly seemed like some type of magic or enchantment was involved, but I like that idea that it's so good that they just can't stop. That's me with Swiss Rolls.
@@littleorphananimeYT 😁 I liked your idea about greed so maybe we can both have ideas work at the same time
I thought Yubaba was a russian witch who lives in a house on chicken legs?
That's Baba Yaga.
A very interesting aside: the first words babies learn are often the names of close family members, like mama and papa. Many languages share such names, as they follow a fairly strict standard: an easy syllable repeated twice.
In my first draft of the script, I kept calling Yubaba "Baba Yaga" because it had been awhile since I watched it. After I rewatched the film, I had to go back and correct it. 😆
@@Greenicegod oh sorry, my bad! XD
Ohahaha I was just thinking about those opulent rooms were there can be no dust and plastic is on the furniture that I couldn't go in.
Yeah that was the grandmother that I wasn't close to who never got me anything never had any moments where she acted like she cared about me and definitely wasn't fun to be around. I think the only thing she did was argue with my mom over cereal and act like she didn't want me there it was weird.
But yeah like you said Grandpa figures can be nice
Plastic covers on the furniture . . . I had completely forgotten about those 😆
Are you also felt like it can be representative of the prison culture?
I hadn't thought of that before, but you probably could argue that a lot of workers at the bathhouse are more like Yubaba's prisoners rather than willing workers who choose to be there of their own free will. Interesting idea.
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