@@Sephiroth517I remember..... at first you could only respond to it if you had another interrupt There was a very short time where the card was labeled mana source, and those you cannot respond to at all
If you counter the spell they're ritualing for, it's essentially a 2 for 1. Countering the ritual is often a bad move unless you know your opponent is on some bull
It's usually better to counter whatever you're casting with Dark Ritual (in card advantage) and not the Ritual itself. The only way it doesn't work is if you're casting something that can't be countered, or something with a cast trigger. The missplay is definitely on them for not knowing that there's a cast trigger that removes all counters
Yeah, you're just wrong here. You cannot allow mana advantage in legacy in the early game. If you have the ability to stop it, generally, you do. Hello, Stifle? ;) I'm fully aware that you will lose in card advantage countering the dark ritual, but the earlier into the game that Dark Ritual is cast the more correct it is to counter it. It's a misplay to counter the mutated Cultist for sure, but yes, it's absolutely correct to counter a Dark Ritual here. I don't see a universe where I don't counter the Ritual immediately when I see a Dark Depths on the field. Anything else is just greedy as fuck. lol HOWEVER, if the Dark Depths player had a brain and sequenced the Dark Ritual for mana AHEAD of their land per turn, then the decision to counter is MUCH more spicy. Do they have it? Do I roll the dice? Personally, I'd still counter it, because I believe that's the correct choice on turn 1 in today's meta regardless of taking the L on card advantage... Then DD player can hold DD and not get Wastelanded t2. It's almost like I've played legacy before! Thanks for your wild mansplaining journey that was ultimately exposed bad decision making, sir. It was pivotal information mr. wHeLl aHkTuwally.
@@X_WoodsI enjoyed reading it 👍 If you don't know which deck they're playing and they have gemstone into dark ritual before anything else, would you still counter it?
Yeah, I posited that scenario at the end of my second comment. I still believe it's correct even if they hide they are using DD. They could be trying for an early sheolred/TOR/Necropotence, and it would be FANTASTIC value to counter any of that instead of the Dark Ritual. But the question can be made very complicated. What is your sideboard built for? Can you 2-1 the sided matches? Should you hold for more information? What are the risks involved with allowing the Dark Ritual? Obviously this scenario posits that you could just be ending the game by reserving the Force of will. Gemstone caverns negs them a card in the first place, so you are actually even in card advantage buy just countering the Dark Ritual. If it was so important to them to give up a card to play Dark Ritual t1, I'm willing to bet that Dark Ritual is very dangerous territory. Swamp -> Dark Ritual is a harder choice, because then you are really going negative in card advantage (they didn't give anything up for the first black mana), but I still believe in most cases unless you're planning to give up game 1 in exchange to learn about what your opponent is playing, that you'll want to counter if you can.
Yeah not unbeatable. As someone else mentioned they could have responded to the dark ritual, and I bet every subsequent game this guy is doing just that if Magical Christmas land ever returns
The Galaxy Brain ending would be to let the Marit Lage and Ulamog enter, then crack Tarn for a basic Island and cast Whiplash Trap, bouncing Ulamog and Marit Lage.
If you are going in blind to what the opponent is playing then most people leave the rituals alone and counter the payoff. That way they need to replace both pieces. Most of the time (again still blind to WHAT the ritual is being used for) if you counter the ritual they more than likely have a backup for next turn whereas they payoff is more likely to be less common in the deck.
Genuine question, what is the point of using something like scolding tarn when you could just replace it with a basic instead? It seems like you take avoidable damage for little gain
I'll answer. For a few reasons. 1) this allows you to search for the specific land you want. Imagine you replaced this with a basic. You may find yourself drawing a hand if mostly mountain while your cards require islands. I know you can mulligan, but you may still find yourself in a situation where you have too much of one mana vs another. So you can use this to search for what you need to make your plays. 2) it helps thin out your deck a bit. I don't know what specific format they are playing, but let's say 60 card standard. If you have 4 of these search lands, that effectively brings your carpool down to 54. While this seems small, this can be the difference between mana flooding and drawing a useful card. I can't count the number of times I only needed to draw SOMETHING besides a land to win, just to be greeted with 3 lands in a row and lose. 3) there are many other searchable lands that don't require life, but they come with the downside of having the land come in tapped (or in the case of fabled passage, needing 3 other lands). Because this allows the land to come in untapped, it can be immediately used and played. This means that when a player plays something, you can fetch for the correct response. Opponent plays a non creature spell? Fetch an island and play a counter. Opponent plays a creature, fetch a red and play a burn. Keep in mind that life is a resource. Players will often gamble their life points for an early advantage. One of the earliest FTKO (first turn knock outs) decks basically had the player sac 19 life points to deal 20 damage to a player. Most cards that can be played with phyrexian mana (allowing you to pay with life instead of mana) are usually seen as good cards because they allow nice advantages. Hopefully that answers your question.
Im just curious. The gem stone got 1 counter. The creature you summoned removes 1 counter and then makes creature spells 1 mana cheaper for each counter removed (which in this case is 1). How are you able to play the 10 mana eldrazi, which should be 9? Am i missing something?
Casting refers to "putting it on the stack". Countering doesn't matter. This is clearly evident in prowess decks where countering spells doesn't change the fact that the creatures still get the prowess bonus
So for a theoretical turn 1 Ulamog and Dark Depths you need: Gemstone Caverns in your starting hand. Dark Depths Dark Ritual Mutated Cultist Ulamog the Defiler 5 cards in your hand for turn 1. Just play Exodia. This is literally “Turn 1; Exodia” This is never happening at any reasonable level of consistency.
I may be wrong, but just because you counter the first creature, doesn't change that the counter removal will still go through as the act of casting is connected to putting the spell on the stack. It doesn't have to resolve. The only reason I'm pretty sure it works this way is because: 1) they would've normally written it as "when this creature enters the battlefield" to convey the message that the spell must resolve first before the counters can be removed. 2) prowess abilities often mention "casting spells" gives the creatures +1/+1. And it doesn't matter if the spell resolves or not, they still get the prowess bonus.
@ToxicGamer-ui7fs the black creature spell is from a commander deck. So legal in eternal formats, I don't believe it sees play in legacy. So really just commander, and commander doesn't really have cash tournaments.
Stop shuffling cards. Just let us hear you talk. You have good ideas. Stop the “show”. The talking to yourself conveys that just fine. If you need some other sound, then play music.
@markcorbaley5313 it's completely pointless in a video going back and forth with yourself with hand shuffle. In paper, people do it to annoy their opponent.
You didnr give a chance to respond to the dark ritual. It coukd have definitely stopped it.
But who counters the dark ritual when you're waiting to counter the threat. I guess if you expect the threats to have cast triggers you do.
@@SwedeRacerDCthey'll definitely counter the ritual in games 2 and 3 lol
There was a time, long ago, where you couldn't even respond to dark ritual at all..
@@Sephiroth517I remember.....
at first you could only respond to it if you had another interrupt
There was a very short time where the card was labeled mana source, and those you cannot respond to at all
If you counter the spell they're ritualing for, it's essentially a 2 for 1. Countering the ritual is often a bad move unless you know your opponent is on some bull
No reasonable player is letting that Dark Ritual go through on turn 1 if they're sitting on a Force, and all you have is an untapped Dark Depths.
It's usually better to counter whatever you're casting with Dark Ritual (in card advantage) and not the Ritual itself. The only way it doesn't work is if you're casting something that can't be countered, or something with a cast trigger.
The missplay is definitely on them for not knowing that there's a cast trigger that removes all counters
Yeah, you're just wrong here. You cannot allow mana advantage in legacy in the early game. If you have the ability to stop it, generally, you do. Hello, Stifle? ;)
I'm fully aware that you will lose in card advantage countering the dark ritual, but the earlier into the game that Dark Ritual is cast the more correct it is to counter it.
It's a misplay to counter the mutated Cultist for sure, but yes, it's absolutely correct to counter a Dark Ritual here. I don't see a universe where I don't counter the Ritual immediately when I see a Dark Depths on the field. Anything else is just greedy as fuck. lol
HOWEVER, if the Dark Depths player had a brain and sequenced the Dark Ritual for mana AHEAD of their land per turn, then the decision to counter is MUCH more spicy.
Do they have it? Do I roll the dice? Personally, I'd still counter it, because I believe that's the correct choice on turn 1 in today's meta regardless of taking the L on card advantage... Then DD player can hold DD and not get Wastelanded t2.
It's almost like I've played legacy before! Thanks for your wild mansplaining journey that was ultimately exposed bad decision making, sir. It was pivotal information mr. wHeLl aHkTuwally.
@@X_WoodsI enjoyed reading it 👍
If you don't know which deck they're playing and they have gemstone into dark ritual before anything else, would you still counter it?
Yeah, I posited that scenario at the end of my second comment. I still believe it's correct even if they hide they are using DD.
They could be trying for an early sheolred/TOR/Necropotence, and it would be FANTASTIC value to counter any of that instead of the Dark Ritual. But the question can be made very complicated.
What is your sideboard built for? Can you 2-1 the sided matches? Should you hold for more information? What are the risks involved with allowing the Dark Ritual?
Obviously this scenario posits that you could just be ending the game by reserving the Force of will. Gemstone caverns negs them a card in the first place, so you are actually even in card advantage buy just countering the Dark Ritual.
If it was so important to them to give up a card to play Dark Ritual t1, I'm willing to bet that Dark Ritual is very dangerous territory.
Swamp -> Dark Ritual is a harder choice, because then you are really going negative in card advantage (they didn't give anything up for the first black mana), but I still believe in most cases unless you're planning to give up game 1 in exchange to learn about what your opponent is playing, that you'll want to counter if you can.
@@laytonjr6601not countering the ritual in 24 is crazy. It's like you guys don't read the power those cast effects had.
Holy cow! We broke dark depths.
We did it, boys.
We already did it with thespian stage
@@jondargel1496 "yea thats just not fast enough"
It’s been broken 😂
Yeah not unbeatable. As someone else mentioned they could have responded to the dark ritual, and I bet every subsequent game this guy is doing just that if Magical Christmas land ever returns
good old "just respond to it" argument
another reason why i love stiflenaught lol
People wonder why i still sideboard vapor snag.
Bounce the token
You still have to deal with the turn 1 10 drop...
Yeah when your opponent draws a god hand. Literally just counter ritual going forward lmfao
The Galaxy Brain ending would be to let the Marit Lage and Ulamog enter, then crack Tarn for a basic Island and cast Whiplash Trap, bouncing Ulamog and Marit Lage.
So that Mutated Cultist can turn a Surge Node knto 6 colorless mana, like a double Dark Ritual?
Good ideas!
Wait you can counter actived abilities like that?
The rage bait here is real, no shot that Dark Ritual is resolving.
General wisdom is don’t counter tutors and rituals. That’s a part of why this combo generally works at least the first game.
If you are going in blind to what the opponent is playing then most people leave the rituals alone and counter the payoff. That way they need to replace both pieces.
Most of the time (again still blind to WHAT the ritual is being used for) if you counter the ritual they more than likely have a backup for next turn whereas they payoff is more likely to be less common in the deck.
Genuine question, what is the point of using something like scolding tarn when you could just replace it with a basic instead? It seems like you take avoidable damage for little gain
I'll answer. For a few reasons.
1) this allows you to search for the specific land you want. Imagine you replaced this with a basic. You may find yourself drawing a hand if mostly mountain while your cards require islands. I know you can mulligan, but you may still find yourself in a situation where you have too much of one mana vs another. So you can use this to search for what you need to make your plays.
2) it helps thin out your deck a bit. I don't know what specific format they are playing, but let's say 60 card standard. If you have 4 of these search lands, that effectively brings your carpool down to 54. While this seems small, this can be the difference between mana flooding and drawing a useful card. I can't count the number of times I only needed to draw SOMETHING besides a land to win, just to be greeted with 3 lands in a row and lose.
3) there are many other searchable lands that don't require life, but they come with the downside of having the land come in tapped (or in the case of fabled passage, needing 3 other lands). Because this allows the land to come in untapped, it can be immediately used and played. This means that when a player plays something, you can fetch for the correct response. Opponent plays a non creature spell? Fetch an island and play a counter. Opponent plays a creature, fetch a red and play a burn. Keep in mind that life is a resource. Players will often gamble their life points for an early advantage. One of the earliest FTKO (first turn knock outs) decks basically had the player sac 19 life points to deal 20 damage to a player. Most cards that can be played with phyrexian mana (allowing you to pay with life instead of mana) are usually seen as good cards because they allow nice advantages.
Hopefully that answers your question.
Im just curious. The gem stone got 1 counter. The creature you summoned removes 1 counter and then makes creature spells 1 mana cheaper for each counter removed (which in this case is 1). How are you able to play the 10 mana eldrazi, which should be 9? Am i missing something?
@@jangelaclough5457 he took all the counters from the dark depths, so the eldrazi was discounted by 10
@@karashk ahh, thanks. I can't believe I missed that.
Omg the absolute filth
I love it
this just sounds like legacy to me instead of pauper
If you had something to counter the ability tho right?
Yes, stifle would work against that cast trigger
Love ulamog
Am I tripping or did it say remove counters from permanent opponent controls?
It says "target permanent or opponent", so it's a reasonable mistake!
I want the decklist
Millguy is intending to break our minds with UNSLEEVED HAND SHUFFLING and making it seem like expensive cards. Ugh..
Wait so does "when you cast this spell" trigger even though the spell got countered?
@@bastian1870 Yes because you’ve already cast the spell, countering the spell does not prevent you from casting it, it just prevents it from resolving
Casting refers to "putting it on the stack". Countering doesn't matter. This is clearly evident in prowess decks where countering spells doesn't change the fact that the creatures still get the prowess bonus
The arrogance…”yeah, that’s just not fast enough”. Do chill players exist or is it all try hards now?
Its legacy, there are no casuals that play legacy lmfao.
Stifle works
And THIS is why I stopped playing paper
But it s risky because your opponent could play claim the firstborn which is so unlikely
Since when does anyone play without sleeves in the year of our Lord 2024?
SLEEVES
So for a theoretical turn 1 Ulamog and Dark Depths you need:
Gemstone Caverns in your starting hand.
Dark Depths
Dark Ritual
Mutated Cultist
Ulamog the Defiler
5 cards in your hand for turn 1.
Just play Exodia. This is literally “Turn 1; Exodia”
This is never happening at any reasonable level of consistency.
you negate the creature spell, so the creature is negated. The activation is negated
did everyone forget in MTG everything is a spell because we are wizards playing against other wizards
I may be wrong, but just because you counter the first creature, doesn't change that the counter removal will still go through as the act of casting is connected to putting the spell on the stack. It doesn't have to resolve. The only reason I'm pretty sure it works this way is because:
1) they would've normally written it as "when this creature enters the battlefield" to convey the message that the spell must resolve first before the counters can be removed.
2) prowess abilities often mention "casting spells" gives the creatures +1/+1. And it doesn't matter if the spell resolves or not, they still get the prowess bonus.
Enchant graveyard
You sound like a joy to play with 🙄
Does anyone really play like this at cash tournaments? There are cash tournaments still, right?
Yeah they do
@WhipLash42o admittedly there are frustrations with opinions on what is mean spirited and is fairplay.
@ToxicGamer-ui7fs the black creature spell is from a commander deck. So legal in eternal formats, I don't believe it sees play in legacy. So really just commander, and commander doesn't really have cash tournaments.
Yeh
😂 Bro does god hands n no responses all the time. The first time I see a response it targets the wrong thing. Cmon.
Bro making vids with his bulk now lol no sleeves
Always hit the ritual, always
Not necessarily
Stop shuffling cards. Just let us hear you talk. You have good ideas. Stop the “show”. The talking to yourself conveys that just fine. If you need some other sound, then play music.
Hate this guys videos! That shuffle thing is the most annoying this in magic
He comes off as overly arrogant to me, but I've never looked at his shuffling. What's wrong about that in particular?
@markcorbaley5313 it's completely pointless in a video going back and forth with yourself with hand shuffle. In paper, people do it to annoy their opponent.