Cool video! I remember this line and several times getting stopped by the Mo-Pac at the Gravois Road crossing (by Grants Farm) heading to my grandma’s house, with my mom, when I was a kid. I always loved seeing trains then and still do till this day.
I remember as a little kid going to the Crestwood Plaza mall (now also long gone) with my mom in the 80's and when we'd eat lunch at Dillard's I'd beg to sit by the windows in hopes of seeing a train go by on this line. More often than not I recall seeing the trains go by. Great to see you captured the last run, thanks for posting!
great video! Although being from Houston and never been to Missouri, I always enjoy watching historic footage of railroad tracks that are no more, so this is definitely a great video!!
Missouri, like many states here in the Midwest, was at the heart of mass-abandonments that started after the Staggers Act was passed in the 1980s which carried through the 1990s during merger-mania.
Wow, great videos! I lived in STL up until 1993 and I only knew this line to be the Kirkwood Cutoff as opposed to Carandolet Branch. I remember seeing full length freight trains passing by Grant's Farm a lot. But I never saw Amtrak using the line. What was interesting about this line is that of the dozens of crossings and very busy roads this line crossed, only TWO had gates: Union Road and Bayless Ave. I had always wondered why more crossings didn't have gates...especially Watson and Sappington Roads! I also can't help but notice the amount of traffic blowing right through the crossings as the engine was trying to cross. I know the signals at Watson Road were flashing, but were they flashing at the Sappington Road crossing? No bells were ringing so it is hard to tell. It's great it was turned into a bike and running trail, but anytime I visit STL and cross over Grant's Trail, I always think of the days when trains used to run on that line!
mask578 - I don't know where the wording "Kirkwood Cutoff" originated from, although I've seen it a few times on the Internet as well as by the bike trail folks in their little information tablets located along the line; that term is absent from my old Missouri Pacific timetables and no friend or relative who worked for MoPac ever referred to it as such - it was always known as the Carondelet Branch / Subdivision, and after the middle portion was abortioned, UP re-named it the "Kirkwood Industrial Lead." Amtrak used it only when it had to, generally when there was a derailment east of Kirkwood, track maintenance, or major projects like the new Grand Avenue crossover installation (late 1980s). During the Grand Avenue project, friends of mine rode from Kirkwood to downtown STL over this line in one of the old Amtrak dome cars which they used to use on the Anne Rutledge between KC and St. Louis. Union Road received gates after a fatal - and highly publicized - grade crossing accident in the early 1980s, just prior to the UP merger with Missouri Pacific. Bayless Avenue's gates, I believe, were funded around the same time frame. Regarding the rest of the major road crossings lacking gates, what I believe happened was, in the mid-80s just after the UP / MoPac merger (sometime around 1983), the state of Missouri had actually budgeted to equip the entire branch with safety gates. However, by that point, UP had begun to completely change the landscape, so-to-speak, of its former MoPac territory known as the "St. Louis Service Unit" by shuttering main line classification operations at both Ivory and Lesperance Yards in South St. Louis in favor of the A&S Gateway Yard across the River, as well as Dupo. With future traffic levels tapering off, Missouri diverted the crossing improvement funding elsewhere, and by 1990, UP began the permission process to tear up the middle portion of the branch through Grants Farm, etc. Regarding the operation of the crossing signals during the move in this video, the rails had a dark coat of rust on them between Sappington and Watson due to infrequent use at the time. I was surprised the crew didn't stop to flag the crossings, but without gates, I guess they were unaware the signals weren't functioning properly. I noticed at Watson Rd. both for this move and the one the week prior, while half of the red lights came on, they were not always rotating back and forth like they should - likely caused by a stuck relay. At Sappington, with the bright sunlight, I couldn't tell if the lights were flashing or not, nor did the bells seem to ring properly/loudly, but it seemed at least some of the traffic stopped.. -Scott
msk578 - Yes, correct - the branch remained active from Kirkwood Jct. as far as Sappington Rd. through 1998 to continue serving the Von Hoffman Press, which is where the longer train in my other video was headed to. And yes, the portion that crosses Bayless to serve Republic Recycling is still very much in use, and is generally switched out late at night by the UP local.
In my 59 years think I only caught maybe two trains one being in the 80s not even sure when they yanked up the tracks.. Tracks went under hwy 21 but there's a steel bridge next to it wandered if that was a track that connected to the Fisco track yrs ago.
Both this line and the Frisco served Alpha Portland Cement until the 80s. This was between Highway 21 (Tesson Ferry) and I-55. Union Pacific lifted the rail from Hoffmeister Ave just south of Bayless (behind Orland Gardens) to Pardee Rd. in Crestwood in 1993. Pardee to Kirkwood remained to serve local customers into the late 90s, with removal coming in 2000. This was the last train between Pardee Rd. and Sappington Rd.
Just happened to catch the steel trussle one day parallel to 21. Kinda off my beaten path but was surveying the terrain and noticed it being a tight radius and thought it could only be a service spur. Curious were it connected the old Frisco route At least two trussles have built dates. Peavly has 59 and DeSoto has 49
@@rudyjavurek2817 - There was not an interchange between the MoPac & Frisco at Alpha in the technical sense, although both did serve Alpha Cement into the 80s.
msk578 - The important thing about the Rails-to-Trails Act to remember is the legal language regarding trail use is INTERIM. If this line or Tennessee Pass would ever be needed for rail use in the future, they're literally "in the bank" (hence the term "rail bank") for the railroad to use. Although as you mention it is unlikely either line would be returned to active service, in today's world, it would be literally impossible to build a new rail line, especially one through populated areas. Hence, with demand for US rail freight to skyrocket in the next several decades, it is critical these abandoned corridors be preserved.
G$8605 I freaking LOVE the Tennessee Pass so much! I'm hoping they'll be willing to reopen the line sooner or later regardless of costs, but hopefully the tourist lines won't conflict with traffic either!
"Although many residents considered the line a nuisance with its numerous major grade crossings". People just can't stand being inconvenienced by having to wait a few minutes for a train to pass. The NIMBYs especially love to see rail lines disappear never to see or hear a train's passing again. In their glee over a rail line being pulled up, they fail to realize that many times the abandonment of trackage is due to the drying up of industry, and the drying up of industry means a lot less jobs and employment for everyone. Guess it's planning for the future to keep making rail trails where trains once ran. If industry keeps contracting the way it has and still is, people won't have anything better to do with their time except walk, bike, or jog along these trails. There sure won't be much in the way of working/earning a living to spend their time doing. But at least they won't have to be inconvenienced anymore by those nuisances called trains. :(
You make some excellent points. Until the mid-80s, just on the segment in this video was packed with rail-reliant businesses. I can think of 7 off the top of my head! And isn't it ironic how many of the "millenials" using this trail are clueless the vital role this trackage and the businesses it served played in our local economy, and then vote for politicians who pass legislation forever preventing our manufacturing economy to come back to our shores.
I'm a walker. I grew up in Webster, so RR tracks is how we got around as kids. They lead everywhere we wanted to go. It used to be like that all around town, follow the tracks and you could find a job, be in downtown or a shopping area. I walk the tracks, and I can tell you there are many, many miles of track sitting in decay, that were once flowing with the commerce that made us a great city long ago.
Cool video! I remember this line and several times getting stopped by the Mo-Pac at the Gravois Road crossing (by Grants Farm) heading to my grandma’s house, with my mom, when I was a kid. I always loved seeing trains then and still do till this day.
I remember as a little kid going to the Crestwood Plaza mall (now also long gone) with my mom in the 80's and when we'd eat lunch at Dillard's I'd beg to sit by the windows in hopes of seeing a train go by on this line. More often than not I recall seeing the trains go by. Great to see you captured the last run, thanks for posting!
They still ran a decent variety of traffic over it back then, a lot of which ran at the same time like the local and CSP.
Thanks for this. Not from StL and didn’t move here until after this was part of Grant’s Trail, which I have run MANY MANY times.
You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.
great video! Although being from Houston and never been to Missouri, I always enjoy watching historic footage of railroad tracks that are no more, so this is definitely a great video!!
Missouri, like many states here in the Midwest, was at the heart of mass-abandonments that started after the Staggers Act was passed in the 1980s which carried through the 1990s during merger-mania.
Nice catch with that GP50 unit! It's now a yard slug (UPY 939), and is classified as an "S6-1B".
Interesting. Hopefully they did something about the horn too..
Wow, great videos! I lived in STL up until 1993 and I only knew this line to be the Kirkwood Cutoff as opposed to Carandolet Branch. I remember seeing full length freight trains passing by Grant's Farm a lot. But I never saw Amtrak using the line.
What was interesting about this line is that of the dozens of crossings and very busy roads this line crossed, only TWO had gates: Union Road and Bayless Ave. I had always wondered why more crossings didn't have gates...especially Watson and Sappington Roads!
I also can't help but notice the amount of traffic blowing right through the crossings as the engine was trying to cross. I know the signals at Watson Road were flashing, but were they flashing at the Sappington Road crossing? No bells were ringing so it is hard to tell.
It's great it was turned into a bike and running trail, but anytime I visit STL and cross over Grant's Trail, I always think of the days when trains used to run on that line!
mask578 - I don't know where the wording "Kirkwood Cutoff" originated from, although I've seen it a few times on the Internet as well as by the bike trail folks in their little information tablets located along the line; that term is absent from my old Missouri Pacific timetables and no friend or relative who worked for MoPac ever referred to it as such - it was always known as the Carondelet Branch / Subdivision, and after the middle portion was abortioned, UP re-named it the "Kirkwood Industrial Lead." Amtrak used it only when it had to, generally when there was a derailment east of Kirkwood, track maintenance, or major projects like the new Grand Avenue crossover installation (late 1980s). During the Grand Avenue project, friends of mine rode from Kirkwood to downtown STL over this line in one of the old Amtrak dome cars which they used to use on the Anne Rutledge between KC and St. Louis. Union Road received gates after a fatal - and highly publicized - grade crossing accident in the early 1980s, just prior to the UP merger with Missouri Pacific. Bayless Avenue's gates, I believe, were funded around the same time frame. Regarding the rest of the major road crossings lacking gates, what I believe happened was, in the mid-80s just after the UP / MoPac merger (sometime around 1983), the state of Missouri had actually budgeted to equip the entire branch with safety gates. However, by that point, UP had begun to completely change the landscape, so-to-speak, of its former MoPac territory known as the "St. Louis Service Unit" by shuttering main line classification operations at both Ivory and Lesperance Yards in South St. Louis in favor of the A&S Gateway Yard across the River, as well as Dupo. With future traffic levels tapering off, Missouri diverted the crossing improvement funding elsewhere, and by 1990, UP began the permission process to tear up the middle portion of the branch through Grants Farm, etc. Regarding the operation of the crossing signals during the move in this video, the rails had a dark coat of rust on them between Sappington and Watson due to infrequent use at the time. I was surprised the crew didn't stop to flag the crossings, but without gates, I guess they were unaware the signals weren't functioning properly. I noticed at Watson Rd. both for this move and the one the week prior, while half of the red lights came on, they were not always rotating back and forth like they should - likely caused by a stuck relay. At Sappington, with the bright sunlight, I couldn't tell if the lights were flashing or not, nor did the bells seem to ring properly/loudly, but it seemed at least some of the traffic stopped.. -Scott
msk578 - Yes, correct - the branch remained active from Kirkwood Jct. as far as Sappington Rd. through 1998 to continue serving the Von Hoffman Press, which is where the longer train in my other video was headed to. And yes, the portion that crosses Bayless to serve Republic Recycling is still very much in use, and is generally switched out late at night by the UP local.
I remember getting stopped on Sapping all the time going to the mall.
Poor fouled horn sort of suits the overall nature and status of the line well! It's dying, and is holding on to its last breath.
I subscribed to your channel
if this id abandoned, why did
they leave two boxcars behind?
It's towards the bottom of the description. Nothing ever went into downtown Crestwood across Watson Rd. / Route 66 again.
In my 59 years think I only caught maybe two trains one being in the 80s not even sure when they yanked up the tracks..
Tracks went under hwy 21 but there's a steel bridge next to it wandered if that was a track that connected to the Fisco track yrs ago.
Both this line and the Frisco served Alpha Portland Cement until the 80s. This was between Highway 21 (Tesson Ferry) and I-55. Union Pacific lifted the rail from Hoffmeister Ave just south of Bayless (behind Orland Gardens) to Pardee Rd. in Crestwood in 1993. Pardee to Kirkwood remained to serve local customers into the late 90s, with removal coming in 2000. This was the last train between Pardee Rd. and Sappington Rd.
Just happened to catch the steel trussle one day parallel to 21.
Kinda off my beaten path but was surveying the terrain and noticed it being a tight radius and thought it could only be a service spur.
Curious were it connected the old Frisco route
At least two trussles have built dates.
Peavly has 59 and DeSoto has 49
@@rudyjavurek2817 - There was not an interchange between the MoPac & Frisco at Alpha in the technical sense, although both did serve Alpha Cement into the 80s.
Is part of that line now Grant Trail in Crestwood Mo. ?
Dorothy Merrell - Yes it is
I say revive the line! I would love it
I would too, although any such proposal would stir up a hornet's nest with the folks who live next to it in South County!
msk578 - The important thing about the Rails-to-Trails Act to remember is the legal language regarding trail use is INTERIM. If this line or Tennessee Pass would ever be needed for rail use in the future, they're literally "in the bank" (hence the term "rail bank") for the railroad to use. Although as you mention it is unlikely either line would be returned to active service, in today's world, it would be literally impossible to build a new rail line, especially one through populated areas. Hence, with demand for US rail freight to skyrocket in the next several decades, it is critical these abandoned corridors be preserved.
Scott N The people know about the excessive train traffic there before they buy, so thru shouldn't complain about it.
G$8605 I freaking LOVE the Tennessee Pass so much! I'm hoping they'll be willing to reopen the line sooner or later regardless of costs, but hopefully the tourist lines won't conflict with traffic either!
"Although many residents considered the line a nuisance with its numerous major grade crossings". People just can't stand being inconvenienced by having to wait a few minutes for a train to pass. The NIMBYs especially love to see rail lines disappear never to see or hear a train's passing again. In their glee over a rail line being pulled up, they fail to realize that many times the abandonment of trackage is due to the drying up of industry, and the drying up of industry means a lot less jobs and employment for everyone. Guess it's planning for the future to keep making rail trails where trains once ran. If industry keeps contracting the way it has and still is, people won't have anything better to do with their time except walk, bike, or jog along these trails. There sure won't be much in the way of working/earning a living to spend their time doing. But at least they won't have to be inconvenienced anymore by those nuisances called trains. :(
You make some excellent points. Until the mid-80s, just on the segment in this video was packed with rail-reliant businesses. I can think of 7 off the top of my head! And isn't it ironic how many of the "millenials" using this trail are clueless the vital role this trackage and the businesses it served played in our local economy, and then vote for politicians who pass legislation forever preventing our manufacturing economy to come back to our shores.
I'm a walker. I grew up in Webster, so RR tracks is how we got around as kids. They lead everywhere we wanted to go. It used to be like that all around town, follow the tracks and you could find a job, be in downtown or a shopping area. I walk the tracks, and I can tell you there are many, many miles of track sitting in decay, that were once flowing with the commerce that made us a great city long ago.
i live in missouri!
Why did they abandon this line?
Eric - Click on the description; it's fairly detailed.
Ok. Check out my train videos and subscribe to my channel too
+Eric (ericondefense) Will do buddy, thanks!
I have a couple Union Pacific Train videos
SHIT FUCK this is cool man
Haha thanks man
this is not 2015!
Correct; date video was taken is in the description. May 1997.