Do we really need DRS? ... and other Imola F1 talking points
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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The grand prix weekend at Imola was really interesting in a lot of ways, even if the race itself maybe could have been more exciting. We have lots to talk about, including Sprint debates, DRS quandries and how Verstappen might beat Leclerc.
#F1 #ImolaGP #Formula1
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I'm fairly certain "overwhelming success" isn't determined by a survey of the fan's enjoyment of the sprint but by viewer numbers being higher compared to regular qualifying
I wonder if it this statistic co pères quali and sprint in sprint weekend or overall. Because if it is comparing within sprint weekend it is obvious there will be less people watching quali because it si Friday evening and they probably hang out after job /school
I’m pretty sure you’d compare numbers between sprint and FP3. Obviously sprint wins. Literally nobody watches 3 practice sessions.
You’re dead right. When I told my fellow American friends there were two race they woke up for both. They have never woken up for quali. I have but they never have.
@@idkjustchangingmyname7343 I think that's because there's the feeling that sprint quali has more jeopardy since it is a race.
Vs quali which you can catch the highlights and get the gist. And it's fairly predictable how teams behave in quali.
Vs sprint which is a race in itself.
It seems more valuable to a viewer who primarily comes to watch the races and not the other sessions.
@@quigglyz I do.
The entire season will be me gleefully cheering on Bottas and Magnussen. Those two are so exciting to watch. Alonso too, but his car is failing him.
I know right, even if the top 6-7 drivers are almost always Red Bull, Ferrari, mclaren and Mercedes, it’s so good to see those two doing awesome as underdogs
Thanks to Merc these past few years I have pretty much only been interested in the mid-field racing anyway, but yeah good to see those two getting their revenge, and hopefully Alonso's bad luck dries up so we can see what that car can really do before the rate of progress at the front leaves Alpine behind as the season goes on.
It has been awesome watching how some drivers thrive or dive in different teams. Bottas and Kmag are two great examples of the right culture mattering. Look at Ricciardo and you can see the team is already preferencing a driver. Danny is not thriving as a result. Not a fan of Zac Brown.
Its really sad how Alpine's qualifying pace is excellent but their race pace is awful.
The sprint has one massive problem.
Quali, something most fans really want to see, is on Friday afternoon. You know what most people are doing Friday afternoon? Working.
I’m assuming you mean that it pushes quali to a Friday afternoon
@@awesomefacematt Yes, I already fixed it :)
@Angus Crawley but then that defeats the purpose. they want to have one exciting event on every day.
@@Niyati99 I think only the most hardcore fans agree to this. I'm a pretty hardcore fan but still I would prefer it he weekend would be just two days with one Fp and qauli on Saturday and a race on Sunday. Trying to watch all of the F1 is very time consuming nowadays especially with 22 races this year.
You can simply ignore all news feeds and watch it relive once you get home. Very much the same experience. Also, it mostly about Q3 anyway and that's just 15 minutes or so.
The main problem I have with sprint races is that they dilute the excitement of the actual race. I'm going to be less excited for a GP if I've seen a race on the same circuit the day before. With the massive number of races this year, being a dedicated fan is exhausting.
Yeah, and there is nothing really different about them. It'd be nice if they had a major difference like maybe swapping the drivers around in their cars but not counting the points towards the championship, maybe giving the reserve drivers a chance to race, or how about racing a reversed track layout?
Just something other than a shorter version of what will happen the next day without tyre changes (ironically making it less of a sprint as they try to eek the tyres out more).
Did it dilute the main race last weekend? It certainty didn't for me.
@@GloomGaiGar yes
It also dilutes the race by making the 2nd half of it a procession as all of the overtaking has already happened
So as a dedicated fan, you want to see less racing? Do I have that right?
I'm happy for Valtteri. The dude seemed just miserable at Merc. Being the head of a midfield team (not to mention Alfa Romeo's concept seems to have a thing or two going for it) is doing wonders for his confidence and he seems to having a much better time in the sport now
I was cheering for him hardcore when he got on Lewis’ tail at Imola 😂. Too bad he couldn’t get close enough to stick it to Lewis, but man, how good would it feel for him to pass Lewis for position on track! If he does eventually I hope we get a shot of the post-race banter between them lol.
@@lsemaldokhar4154 Bottas was fighting with Russell at the end, not Hamilton
anyone will have a better time than driving alongside HAM lmao
@@elperenza was it? Lol My bad. Either way, chasing down the guy that replaced you or the guy you always played second fiddle to, gotta feel great for him. I know I enjoyed it.
The overall environment too according to Valtteri. Alfa feels more like a "team" for him.
I personally love the longer warm up times on outlaps with new tires. Really helps mix things up and reminds me of some of the action in F2 without tire blankets.
So, while I'll almost never complain about more racing, I have 2 concerns with the sprint races.
First, it currently lacks a reason to exist, as it's effectively Q4.
Second, it makes no sense in an F1 world that's trying to shrink budgets. More racing means more wear and tear on more parts, so more replacements.
While I don't have an answer for the latter, I do have an idea for the former. Fundamentally, F1 could just embrace the sprint race as a fun bit of extra racing. Leave quali on Friday, and have that set the Sunday grid. For the sprint race, run a reverse grid based on the prior race's result (or championship standings?) and run half distance for half points.
Dunno, as I'm just a fan, but it's something to try to give sprint races an identity.
I love the idea of reverse grid maybe reverse the qualifying order
In most cases, I could take or leave the sprint races. But this weekend, I actually hated it. I was excited to see K-Mag up in the second row(!) with Fernando right behind him and how that might work out during the race, but that was all erased by the sprint. Not to mention Zhou's crash that kept him from having a chance to compete for any points (not saying he definitely would have scored points, but if he's in the same car as Bottas he has a shot).
Would they have been in those places without the rain on Friday?
@@sIightIybored Maybe not! But that's the fun of a rainy quali, isn't it?
@@danaborris345 Yeah but his point is, if this was a normal weekend Qualy would have been where the sprint race was. Which means we'd likely not get the grid we did get in qualy this weekend
You get the (obvious) point though. When the grid is mixed up due to weather or a red flag or just an amazing performance in a bad car any chance the underdog would have had in the past is erased by the sprint and DRS which just organizes the car by race pace, 2 by 2.
What I like about the sprint weekends is that there's less practice. One hour to prepare, and a dive straight into quali. But the sprint itself? I don't think it's necessary. It's good that F1 tried out the format, but I think they have to accept that it's not what the sport needs and abandon it.
As I commented on my own, the reduced amount of practice could be achieved by just reducing the amount of practice sessions. Why we need the sprint to do this?
@@AlexThePlatypus I should've clarified this better: this is something to take away from the sprint experiment. We've learned something valuable, less practice is exciting. It can (and should imo) be implemented to the regular race weekends, but the sprint is, as I said, not necessary.
@@namenamename390 Well I think that is was me who was a bit unclear :P Got your original point from the initial comment and agreed to it completely.
The most civil discussion on the internet ever
@@AlexThePlatypus One of the stated goals of the sprint is giving more value for the fan who goes to the track, by making all 3 days meaningful, and selling more Friday and Saturday tickets in the process. I agree less practice creates a bigger potential for excitement, but it remains the issue of what to do with the time that was taken away from those practices. Personally I’d prefer if the sprint had no impact on Sunday race
Personally I would separate the sprint results from the grand prix starting grid. So whatever happens during the sprint, the starting grid for Sundays race is unchanged and se t by quali as normal. Then the sprint grid could either be from championship order (maybe reversed) or some other method such as taking the Q1 results or ordering them by number of P1s, P2s P3s etc.
Yup, it would encourage more aggressive racing in the sprint, as there would be much less risk if you spin or crash.
yeah! i agree with the sprint grid being in reversed championship order, and maybe having more points difference in the top 3 of the sprint
This.
Make sprint all reward and no risk. The grid for Sunday will still be set anyway.
So what would sprint determine? I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying there should be a "separate" championship for sprints?
@@Arch-Tau same championship, extra points.
I'm not a fan of sprints. They can be fine and bring some more laps of excitement, but more laps also minimises the consequences mistakes in qualifying. Like what Sainz and Perez did this weekend, and perhaps more obviously what Hamilton did in Brazil. So sprints probably make unlikely race results and rogue podiums and such more unlikely.
As someone who really wants to like the sprints, this one in Imola showed me exactly what you mean. It felt like quali all year (with new cars) had some fun shake ups and placements you don't expect, and the sprint sort of just shuffled them back into their expected places. Seeing how those mismatches play out is way more interesting over a full race distance where strategy and management matter.
@@detCap Since the introduction of the sprint format I had a disagreement on the distance of it, I think It should not be longer than 10 laps, as it too long and it usualy would settle very quickly, but too short for strategy to become a player, like that you can still get part of the crazy shake ups, we'll see how the rest of the sprint weekends go with these new cars.
Sprint format is a 400 km race with a 22 hour red flag in the middle. And from this year, with partial points given after the first stint. This is what it all boils down to.
Yes the sprint was fun this weekend, but as a result the race was boooooring. The finishing order of the sprint should not dictate the start order of the GP, and then it would be really good. This way its a hard no from me.
I feel so so so so so happy for Valterri. It's like he's earned a chance to just be happy. He's so good and he deserves a team around him that appreciates that. :)
I'm still kind of trying to keep my mind open about the sprints, but I am more leaning towards not quite liking them. For me, quali is the excitement, the thing that I look forward to on Saturday. The sprint just feels too short and the lack of strategy the drivers being mostly quite tame is just not it for me. I also, perhaps unpopularly, didn't like the sprint in Brazil. I would have loved to see Lewis charge through the field over race distance and see just how far up he can get, rather than having the chance to make some places on Saturday and finish the job on Sunday. It was still a great achievement, no doubt, but it made it kind of 'meh' to me.
Yeah I agree with you on the Brasil sprint. I really don't know how anyone could say they enjoyed that more than what would have happened if he had to start the actual race from the back and do the entire job in one go.
Unfortunately DRS has taken out any significant meaning the term charging through the field as DRS on a circuit like Brazill as it all but guarentees a pass will happen. The omly time it won't is when the car is terrible under braking like this years Mercedes with its proposing in the braking area.
Valterri overtaking downhill in the wet on Rivazza 1 was the highlight of the race! Incredibly daring and skillful!
If F1 want more races in the calendar, they need to make the weekends even shorter. Lack of practice generally makes the rest of the on track action more exciting so how about for a normal weekend...
Saturday: FP1 + Qualy
Sunday: Race
And if we are to continue with the sprints, make them reverse grid based on championship order or something similar. The current format just makes the race longer and doesn't really add a whole lot to the weekend imo. I also think if the sprint is reverse grid, it should probably turn into a stand alone event otherwise the teams will never agree to it, and even I think it is a bit artificial doing a reverse grid. So then for a sprint race weekend, I think the format should be...
Friday: FP1 (30 mins) + Sprint (reverse grid)
Saturday: FP2 + Qualy
Sunday: Race
Parc Ferme should only come into effect after qualy in both scenarios so it still allows for a useful practice session even on sprint weekends. The current FP2 during sprints is a bit redundant due to parc ferme.
That's my 2 cents.
I mean, if that's what you want, watch Formula E. Practice in the morning, qualifying just after lunch, and the race a couple hours after that. Plus the cars can race even closer than these new F1 cars.
do what F2 and F3 do: reverse the top of the grid for the Sprint.
right now we have still the same issue as last year: the Grand Prix is 25% longer, starts on Saturday, gets red-flagged for 23 hours, and then continues on Sunday with a standing start. Except now there are more points for it, so the rich get richer.
I am not in favour of the reverse grid. But yeah rich get richer or its a perfect weekend for an engine penalty
Although I agree with all your points about against sprints, I still like sprints for several reasons:
1. 30 minutes race is still much more interesting than 60 minutes of practice. By far.
2. Less practice before parc ferme could bring more excitement in general. Less practice data makes them have to gamble more. The balance between race or quali setup has a larger effect.
3. A more condensed race for the sprint is also interesting. The middle of a full race usually not that interesting anyway. Sprint essentially cut out that middle part but not exactly ofc
To echo a point I read elsewhere, my new issue with the Sprints is that it makes some weekends MORE valuable than others.
Max got 34 points (SprintWin+RaceWin+FLap) for this weekend compared to the previous 3 where the most that was available to any one driver was 25 (win+FLap)
it means that bad or good weekends can have more dramatic swings on these weekends...
Wait how did you get 34 points? Do sprints give 8 points for a win now?
@@AlexeyBeganov yes, sprint gives 8 to winner and gives points upto 8th place.
should be 26, right?(25 for win as far as I remember)
@@arnabmitra301 that's an awful system. Wish they kept the one from last year
@@AlexeyBeganov not really driving that much distance for a measly 3 points is not worth it. Points increase is good making sprint races a bit more worth from teams perspective. But I find major problems of sprint elsewhere
I would argue that one advantage of the sprint is that it makes three days of the weekend Importamt, thereby allowing for a higher chance of mixed weather conditions which, in my opinion, generally produce more interesting sessions
I quite like the Sprint format. Without FP3 and with Quali on friday, the teams are time-restricted to prep the car and it gives a chance for midfield teams to duke it out more frequently due to better prepared cars for some. Plus we get around 20 laps of 'Balls to the wall' driving, usually on Softs.
I like sprint weekends because we get a meaningful session on all 3 days. I would change some things but this one positive outweighs all negatives.
Counterpoint to the Sprint stealing action from the Grand Prix: yes, someone out if order for the start of the Sprint will make their way through the pack during the Sprint, but also there is the possibility that someone will be out of position *because* of the Sprint and will therefore start the Grand Prix from the back, as we've seen a few times.
I took the trip down to Imola to watch the GP from the stands, and for a specator live at the track, a sprint week is so much better than a normal one. You get way more race and excitement for your money. I'm defiantly a fan of the format! keep it coming
Having FP2 after qualifying has already been done, and thus when parc ferme is already in effect also seemed a bit pointless. The whole point of practice sessions should be for drivers to test the cars and make any necessary alterations/setup changes before qualifying
I really like the sprint. Like Drew from Shift+F1 said, think of it like the first 20 laps of the race with a red flag in the middle. I like the limited practises before qualifying, I like that qualifying still exists, and I like that there are just heaps of extra laps of racing over a weekend.
As someone who doesn't get to watch all the races live with work its great, two races in one weekend is always a positive
I do like the sprints, it gives us something to watch 3 days in a row, which my family enjoy even if not everyone does.
Here's an off-the wall idea I just had: scrap the idea of the sprint setting the grid for the race. Instead, the higher-placed driver from each team in qualifying races in the sprint, which a) starts in reverse qualification order and b) only pays out points to the CONSTRUCTORS' championship. This way there's still an incentive for the teams to participate in the sprint, the drivers can get more racy because results don't carry over to Sunday (plus they have an incentive to beat their teammate on Friday), and the reverse grid order should lead to some more spicy on-track action.
This is...nice, but in terms of viewer numbers there might not be as many people watching
Man, you're able to synthesize what I was thinking all along in such an eloquent manner, I love these post race analysis videos! Love the sassy "can't wait!" at the end as well haha.
Sprint is interesting from the point of view that the cars are light and the tyres new so they can be more racy.
During the race the actual racing was better with DRS off as they had to come up with something different, Russell's move on Kmag for example at the chicane.
Ditch DRS, ditch at least 100kg from the car and around 20% smaller
I loved the sprint race.
Weather is a bonus .
Keep it going F1.
The sprint paid points and made it worth it for drivers to fight hard for point paying positions.
I think the sprint is fine, for me it’s one reason that lets me think that: I can watch 2 races on one weekend, a short one on Saturday, a long one on Sunday. More racing is nice. May not be the best reason but it’s A reason :)
Love your analysis as always... But this time it feels like we saw different weekends. Anyway keep up the good videos, your content is for sure enjoyable!
I think the only thing the sprint does for me is it gives me more to watch on a weekend. I know we miss a practice, but we get the "big" events on all 3 weekend days.
It's simple, quali sets the grid for sprint and main race. Reverse the top 10 for the sprint and give half points. Quali setting both grids would stop sandbagging for the reverse grid race, as it would hurt the main race which is worth more points.
Hey ChainBear, just commenting to say I'm really liking this 'weekend overview' kind of thing! Really won't mind this becoming an (almost) race-weekly thing (is race-weekly a word?).
I like the Sprints, novelty is good, more racing to get excited about. Three days of F1 instead of two.
I LOVE SPRINT WEEKENDS. Extra race instead of practice, yes please.
Love sprints. It’s like having 2 races in one weekend. Any chance to see racing is awesome. Could be a bit longer though.
I would love to see a non-points “All Star Race” where they throw some of the HOFers in and put all the gimmicks they can in, NASCAR style
A video on what that could look like would be a great one
Very interesting and informative video! I enjoyed watching it, thanks for sharing :)
What I've learned from Imola GP is that the Honda drivetrain's reliability relies on track temperature. We can see that on the first three tracks where there was no rain, It has issues on the reliability (Bahrain (Verstappen, Perez, and Gasly's engine broke), Jeddah (Tsunoda didn't start), And Australia (Verstappen's engine broke)). But when there's rain on the track like on Imola, Honda's drivetrain had no issues since all the Honda powered car finished. So this let me think that track temperature might be the reason why Honda drivetrain sometimes fail.
First race they literally said the increased temperatures were causing unexpected difficulties with the fuel pump (Which is actually a part the teams have to buy from a third party, not something they make themselves). Other than that I think the Alpha Tauri problem is different, because they've packaged the car differently and have been struggling somewhat in general.
Your explanation on the breakdown of the sprint "success" for this race is spot on. I thought it was exacerbated by weather conditions on Friday. But neutralized the race on Sunday. But if quli was on Saturday it would have likely been similar starting grid as the sprint gave us due to Saturdays conditions.
1. This season has been a blast for me and my son to watch. The new cars have absolutely delivered.
2. As someone that watches the highlights of the fp's, and then all of quali and the race. The sprint are a nice change of pace once in a while. Having them be more then a third of the races though would be too often imo.
3. The max/Charles battle is epic.
what i think they should do
Friday: Fp1 and Fp2
Saturday: Qualy (in the morning), Sprint (reverse qualy grid, points for top 10)
Sunday: Race (qualy order)
That defeats the purpose of introducing the Sprint - to bring action every day of the weekend
And you’re gonna have to inflate the points quite a bit for the sprint to be of true value if you want the GP to follow quali order, which may be a bad idea because sprint weekends will be way more valuable than normal ones
I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of Bottas; when he was driving for Mercedes, I thought he was too cautious to ever really challenge Hamilton (even when they had similar pace). He's said himself that Lewis Hamilton is hard to beat because 'even on his bad days, there's still a high bar of skill to clear to beat Lewis.' Obviously, Valteri was a fantastic team player who put the team's direction and interests above his own, but I'm very glad to see him thrive where he's showing what he can do in decent machinery when he's not playing the position of a secondary focus.
I actually really enjoy sprints. Having one every so often is just good fun and being that these are the top drivers in the world and we expect them to change to the dynamics of the GP (weather, track position, tire condition, etc) expecting them to adapt to a weekend with minimal and a sprint is not to much to ask.
I love sprint race weekends! If it's not raining during qualifying, I see the sprint as another possibility to mix up the grid instead of the fastest cars always ending up in the front for the race, because it's also a race with the following inconsistencies that brings with it.
Along with the valid points raised in this video, I simply find a bit cheeky that F1 expects us to base our Friday afternoon, Saturday afternoon, *and* Sunday afternoon around watching their sport, especially considering how long the season is. It’s over-saturation and it will kick in as more and more sprint races are added
F1TV: watch when you can/want.
Sprint Race is great for the fans at the track as the atmosphere is in race mode twice and Friday is a little more spicy.
tl;dr at bottom of comment, got carried away.
personally, if we are going to keep the sprint, one of two things need to happen. either we reverse the top ten on saturday, therefore a mixed up grid is preserved for sunday if we get one, allowing the race to keep some intrigue, and if there is no mixed up grid, then we get to see fastest cars thoroughly in the midfield. however, i think the better option is to scrap the sprint race, and replace it with an australian v8 supercars style top ten shootout. they do it at mount panorama (among other tracks), where each driver in the top ten from qualifying on friday go out in reverse order and get one fast lap to set their time, which is then used to set the new top ten. full commitment, balls to the wall, ten laps from ten incredibly talented drivers. imagine doing it on a weekend last year, george russell getting just as much a chance to nab a pole as lewis or max. for me, it seems like the best option for "sprint" weekends (obviously the name may need to change), because we could throw it at more tracks, like monaco, where qualifying Is The Weekend, or Spa, seeing drivers absolutely bomb it through the belgian forest, rather than the tracks where we need overtaking to make sprint weekends enjoyable to the minority of fans who even enjoy it.
tl;dr, if we have to change the weekend format, make fom watch any v8 supercars top ten shootout from bathurst in the last five years, and tell them we want that at monaco, rather than a 30 minute race
I, as a generation "drive to survive" F1-Fan, personally like the sprint races. I think it's nice to see the cars at full throttle with less concern about tires, pit stops etc in contrast to the actual race. For me personally it feels like sprint is all about the car and the driver while the actual race is also a lot about tactics and i like that it is twofold like that.
I am very apathetic towards sprint in their current format. Any mixed up grids from qualifying are almost reset during the sprint thereby making the races less interesting.
The answer for me is a bit of reverse grid action - not a full reverse but at least some kind of a mix up from the quali order. And whatever the result of the sprint, they still start the race in quali order
I mean if we're trying stuff, have a bingo cage with numbers 1 through 20 and have every driver take a ball out and see what grid position they get. 🤷♂️
This channel is so dope. Kudos guys
All criticism levelled at sprint races goes just as well for normal races. People forget that there's a very good chance races are boring. Monaco is still on the calendar and people still seem to watch that. Why put so much emphasis on excitement with sprint races and deem whether it's earned without considering that the GP race also performs well below par normally? I think sprint races do about half the excitement in a third of the time, which makes it more excitement per second. I think they're a positive because of it. And let's not forget they don't replace the race, they add to it and replace an FP session that I normally don't even get out of bed for.
The one detraction is that Qualy is on a Friday. You could argue Parc Ferme is a problem too, with FP2 being essentially pointless. These are things that are fixable IMO, and not valid reasons to reject sprint races. It's a bad attitude IMO where people have a good idea, but give up on it because it's not a strict improvement, and there's some things you have to think about. This is why I don't go outside btw, because going outside might mean I get cold, or might feel like going to the toilet without having a toilet around.
Your definitely right in saying this sprint was enhanced by events. I'd suggest the sprint weekends run with quali Friday which sets the grid for the full race Sunday and the Sprint be a reverse championship grid with the 8 points available. Obviously this would only work after a few races with points on the board but it keeps the race tied only to quali and ensures the sprint will always have an interesting order with the fastest at the back.
I absolutely love the sprints. They are my favorite weekends to look forward to. I do wish they would put them on tracks where passing is a bit more prevalent though.
I was a fan of the sprint race before they first had one. Who doesn't like more racing, right? Provides action on each day of the weekend! But now, after having a few, I'm not so keen on them.
Firstly, as you spoke of, if there's a mix-up of the grid in quali, the sprint pretty much undoes that. I would rather see that action play out and interact with strategies executed during the race than in the sprint. Also, the racing overall seems to be of a lower caliber than the main event. So it may add to the quantity of racing, but it doesn't add to the quality of it.
Secondly, I feel having practice -> quali -> practice -> sprint -> practice -> race is a roller coaster of tension. I appreciate the rising action that we get from practice -> quali -> race. I can't describe why I like the conventional format more, but it just feels more satisfactory.
Overall I don't think the sprints were a terrible idea, but I feel they don't really fit formula 1. Formula 1 races feel like THE event of the weekend and everything else should be feeding into that, not taking away from it.
I don't mind the sprint, especially not on a rainy weekend (not that they'll vary it based on the weather, of course). I think where they're coming from is it gets more people to watch more sessions, and to be honest, that's true. I live in the US and often just check the results from a practice session while I'm cooking breakfast. I might take a minute and watch it on a slow day, but I don't usually watch every Friday session. I do on Sprint weeks though. Like, I wake up early for them and everything. And the numbers seem to support that i'm not the only one. The sprints are fun for me in part because of the additional jeopardy, and I think that the 2022 regs can make it less painful on the race to have a sprint- the cars are much more able to catch up and race each other now. If anything, part of the reason I enjoy them is they force the teams to come in with a subpar setup and it creates a weekend where the driver makes all the difference.
Two suggestions to spice up the sprints
1. Make the race of a length such that the medium compound is well on its way out by the chequered flag
2. Allow pitstops but don't make them mandatory and instruct Pirelli to bring a super soft tyre that is only allowed to be used during FP2 and the sprint race)
Doing this might see some teams pitting with 5 laps to go and having a go at a LeClerc style charge through the grid on super softs
Two fixes I would like are 1) use the Q1 results to set the grid and still have the sprint set the gp grid and give points. 2) Forget setting the GP grid, reverse the top 10, and maybe add 1 point for the highest 20-16 qualifier and highest 15-11 qualifier.
Personally, I have no interest in these sprint races. They feel underwhelming. Also, as you mentioned in the video, it was a shame how the sprint nomalised the grid order last weekend.
Sprint Races basically the first stint of a race that lasts two days. It both adds to the action, but also creates where if you have a pace advantage you have an extra 15-20 laps to exploit it. This is what happened with Lewis in Brazil and also why the order gets shuffled back to the raw race pace of the car.
Just FYI @chainbear the audio levelling for the sponsored part at the end is quite low compared to the rest of the video.
I went away wanting more laps of the Imola sprint. Let's say another 5 laps might have tossed the order around a bit with more possibilities of tire changes etc.
The problem with the sprint is that you basically know what will happen in the race. It also makes the true qualifying seems less popular to race organizers since it gets pushed back to a working day of the week.
If we're going to keep sprints we should move quali back to Saturday just before the sprint and restrict practice to Friday
Quali followed immediately by the sprint in the same day would certainly deliver action and excitement
Just wanna say I really love the sprints and would rather watch a sprint than a Practice session
Not a big fan of the sprint. It's either pretty boring after a normal quali and just moves the action from the race to the sprint after a mixed quali.
One of the reasons people seem to like the sprint weekend is the unpredictability of the racing due to the reduced practice sessions. But this could be achieved with normal quali by just binning one of the practice sessions. Or by making the weekend just two days. One practice session and quali on Saturday and race on Sunday. When we have this many races in a season the shorter weekends doesn't seem a bad thing.
TLDR: Sprints bad, and shortened weekend could be the best solution if change is needed. (Which it necessery isn't)
Since you asked these are my thoughts on the sprint race:
It's uninteresting as it is, but their goal is (or should be IMO) to do it with a reverse grid for points only and the qualifying still sets the grid for the main race. I don't think this option would have been accepted at first and they started this "sprint qualifying" bullshit as a way to introduce the concept without people getting too mad about it.
But I would love a top heavy points system in the sprint race. A point structure where first gets like 12 points, second 10, 3rd 8 and then a big jump down, like 4th takes 3 points, 5th 2 points and 6th 1. This way the top cars (if you do reverse grid in the top 10), will all start out of the points, with at least 3 positions between the closest of them (4th in qualifying, starting 7th in the sprint) being 4 positions from the big points. The midfield cars also have an insane opportunity to score big points, so the fights in this midfield can be epic, with a lot at stake for everyone in the top 10. While those outside the top 10 have a lot less interest in the sprint (hard to start at 11th and have to fight to 6th to get a point when the top cars are literally starting ahead of you), they also don't get punished too hard for failing to be outside the top 10. The 10th qualifier will start at pole, yes, but unless they manage to hold on to a podium (which is no small feat considering the quality of the cars behind), they won't get that much of an advantage over the cars he just outqualified. Maybe give the bottom 10 a free choice of tyre, while the top 10 needs to run the sprint on their fastest tyre on Q2, something that gives some strategic options for cars unlikely to be in the top 10 in qualifying on pace alone. But that's secondary to the main action in the top 10.
Very much agree with you on every point regarding the sprint.
One thing I must also point out, however, is how it's very likely qualifying went as poorly as it did with all the red flags because of the lack of practice time. These are new cars, with different handling models, having their first rainy weekend of the season... and yet, they only had 1 free practice before arguably the one session where they are pushing the absolute hardest AKA qualifying.
It's a point I don't really see anyone bringing up, but it honestly bothered me so much while watching the mess that qualifying session became. In my opinion, the sprint format MAY be more successful in terms of audience retention, but it's one of the most anti-sporting decisions they've ever made.
I really like the sprints. The more racing laps over the weekend is always better. Every GP should have a Sprint!!! More racing is always better in my point of view.
Quali should set the grid for the Race everytime.
Sprints need to be reverse order, be it a complete reverse grid, or only the top 8, 10, or 12 gets reversed from the results in Qualifying.
_Example:_
_Verstappen gets pole in Qualifying on Friday, he then starts P10 for the Sprint._
_In the Sprint, he climbs his way up to P3, and gets 6 points._
_In the Race, he starts on pole position._
Points awarded for the Sprint should be the way it is at the moment, except 10 points will be awarded for the winner, and 8 points awarded for second place.
1st: 10
2nd: 8
3rd: 6
4th: 5
5th: 4
6th: 3
7th: 2
8th: 1
- This format will make Qualifying more entertaining, as the slower teams will be more incentivised to make it into Q3, creating greater competition. However, we may see drivers in slower cars strategically not set a lap time/a very slow lap time to qualify on reverse pole position in Q3.
- It would also make Sprints very entertaining as a semi reversed grid would throw up all kinds of surprises. However, it might make claiming pole position less valuable.
so basically, Quali positions for Sunday (as usual) and Sprint starts in reverse grid, right?
@@Niyati99 yes.
I heard someone propose to focus the sprints, if they have to stay around, in maybe spring or so. Make it a recognizable period in the year, a separate championship maybe, who knows even with reversed grids on tracks where overtaking is difficult. The cycling Spring Classics are always well known and loved and in a recognizable period. They also fared really well since they all shook up their format (route) in order to allow multiple riders to win. I guess F1 could benefit from sprints more when the end result really can be quite wild, though not just a real lottery.
I haven't minded the sprints so far, as the race start is usually the most exciting, and you get 2 of them on a sprint weekend. However, I definitely wouldn't want them often as they do dilute the main race excitement a little.
Perhaps they could be a little shorter, as the excitement wears off after a few laps and it just becomes another dull first stint of a race.
Also possibly having it not affect the main starting grid would help, so then drivers could take more risks and go all out in the sprint without having to think about consequences for the actual GP.
Another thing I think might help is differentiating them from the GP more, perhaps by running a different layout of track (like with the Bahrain short track in 2020). This might be impractical but I still think the sprint would be a lot more intriguing and worth including in the weekend if it had a unique element.
I’m going to watch both anyway, So I just see it as an extra race start which is always interesting.
P.S While Leclerc is maybe more calculated I do think he will push back harder against Max. Especially in situations where previously Lewis, Vettel etc might prefer to live to fight another lap, Leclerc has shown he isn’t afraid to touch wheels and Max knows that too. He can’t really pressure Leclerc too much into backing off cause there will be more resistance from Leclerc
I like the sprint. As much as it has the potential to unshuffle a chaotic order from qualifying, it also has the potential to throw cars elsewhere if strange things happen in the sprint. In Imola we had qualifying in wet conditions and the sprint in dry conditions, but if qualifying is in the dry and sprint has rain the sprint has the potential to shuffle things up. A mistake like Leclerc had in the actual GP would be more devastating in a sprint race where gaps between cars are smaller and there is less time to make up for it. Zhou for instance lost out quite a bit in the sprint and had to start from the pit lane in the GP. He was much further back as a result than the pace of his car really justified.
Chain Bear for Formula One managing director & motor sports and technical director. You have my vote!
I agree that the current sprint format is underwhelming, but only because I see it as a half measure but hopefully a step in the right direction toward the format I'd like to see the weekend arrive at:
1) Qually as-is, but award championship points from 1st all the way down to 19th to ensure every place is fought for.
2) Reverse grid sprint race that sets the grid for the GP (no points)
3) GP with championship points awarded from 1st down to 19th to ensure every place is fought for.
As you stated, "a mixed up grid here" (reversing grid sprint), "seeds fun racing here" (the GP), so why not "seed"(all but guarantee) this every weekend?! All you'd have to do is find the ideal sprint length each weekend to ensure that the fastest cars are AT LEAST battling for/have a chance at the GP win.
I loved this sprint. It really makes the weekend feel "full", the practices are dull compared to actual running.
Why not have a sprint on Friday, with fp1 before with a grid set by the finishing position of Fp1? I think this would both introduce more action for circuit fans and preserve the close links of race and quali that we are used to. Practice would be limited like in the sprint, increasing unpredictablilty. Furthermore, it could also make a cresendo as the 30min race of Friday goes to 1 hour quali on Saturday and the race on sunday
Parc ferme would be set at quali like usual
Personally i do not understand why people complain about the race directors leaving DRS off. To me its more interesting when cars chaise each other lap after lap and not just overtaking left right and center…
I think the sprint is great, just means more racing laps for the viewers
You once proposed to take the Sprint grid from the Q1 results and the GP grid from the full quali results.
That's the solutions in my opinion since the issue is the Sprint influencing the race proper.
In my ideal world, F1 would get rid of the Q session (or turn it into an extra FP), have a sprint race on Saturdays with reverse grid order based on championship standings, and the finishing order would determine the starting grid positions for the main race. For the first race of the season, the positions on the grid would be drawn randomly. Point system for sprint and full race would remain the same. This would eliminate the positive feedback loops and make the races as well as the championship more competitive. But this would probably be considered anathema, so more realistically, I'd love to see F1 use the same format as F2 and F3: Q session, Sprint race with reversed top half of the grid, Feature race with Q order. Best of both worlds.
I've loved the sprints since the first one. Just makes every day of the weekend feel meaningful. Regardless of if the race was exciting or not, it made it feel important as opposed to just mindless practice
However, I do think that crashes in the sprint need to be addressed in the budget because then it would allow the teams to take more risks. Say allow spare cars so they can still race on the Sunday
The points for the sprint race I believe is spot on!! It does encourage more of a fight and I think if a championship battle is as tight as last year it a sprint race can really shake things up! See it even this year ferrari can very well lose the constructors if they have a few bad sprint races... I think that the sprints should be a totally separate race weekend tho at different tracks. Maybe even used as trial races for tracks that f1 might want to race at!
I think the sprint is still a work in progress. The changes to the points awarded gives the teams and drivers a bigger incentive to push during the sprint. However this incentive doesn't outweigh the risk of making a race ruining mistake for the following Sunday.
Making the sprint Saturday give a decent chunk of points but WITHOUT changing the qualifying order for the Sunday would solve a lot of issues brought up about the sprint. For one, it wouldn't "invalidate" the qualifying results by un-shuffling the grid as mentioned in the video. But even in a weekend with a very mundane qualifying, the sprint would give teams a chance to take a risk or try a strategy they otherwise wouldn't have. If it doesn't work, there's less of a punishment for it; but if it does work, the teams that didn't take those risks might rethink their strategy for race day. Overall i think a change like this would add a lot of variables to how teams approach their race strategies for a weekend and, it would make the sprint stand out as it's own event rather than being the 24 hour red flag that some people have dubbed it as.
More sprints please... It's easy I never watch F1 on friday... Unless it's qualify.. and then you have the sprint on Saturday, a lot can happen in 30min ... And then we have the race on Sunday... 3 days filled with action...
My problem with "sprint weekends" for example is that i watch F1 with a friend that is working at the time quali takes place and im usually also busy, and i think thats the problem for a lot of people in the world, my solution was to put FP1 and FP2 on fridays, and move both quali and sprint to Saturday, Quali would be as early as its reasonable to do so and Sprint also as late as possible to give the teams time to maybe fix a car that got damaged in quali, the curfue on Saturdays should be eliminated or relaxed so the teams can make said repairs and as a final point, the sprint race itself should be a tiny bit longer imo, not limited to 100km but to w/e length in laps they decide for each circuit
Don’t forget Tsunoda making multiple overtakes on the inside of Turn 6. The closer following is certainly adding more chances when utilized properly.
I think one way to re-do DRS is they can use it at any time, BUT, only get XX seconds per lap (resetting each lap), or per race. Once it's gone, it's gone.
I think the sprint should give points in the old top-8 manner. Something they can play with, though, is the strategy- mandate a certain compound that's only usable for the sprint race (eg, if C2-4 are being used for the race, teams can use either C1 or C5 for the sprint). No pit stop requirements, but it'll bring out some more fun racing. Downside is that it'll cost the teams more to do that, though I don't think it'll have that drastic an impact for three races. Six, on the other hand,...
For your DRS comment, I think it can be made like the overtake button for Indy- everyone gets N seconds of the wing open, use it as you see fit, and when you're out of time the wing shuts. That'll make some "sub-optimal" passing zones more viable without impacting the normal DRS areas, and it'll really mix up strategy. Need a really hot lap to get a pit gap? DRS all the way, eat the loss on the back end. Need to block to keep the championship lead? Turn yours on halfway down the straight to conserve time and get just enough speed to defend.
Sprint weekends are fine, but I would stretch FP1 to 90 minutes - I'm guessing most team would not mind a little bit of extra time to get things right for qualifying.
I like the sprints they are fun to watch it’s like two races in one week
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the "DRS removal" argument.
In my opinion, the lack of DRS on this race only prooved its necessity. For instance, the battle between Gasly and Hamilton wasn't thrilling, it was just boring because there was never a chance to clearly overtake.
With drs things got a little bit better and interesting, even though the overtake didn't happen.
All I'm saying is that DRS is really a necessity for now, and removing it would be a big mistake in terms of races quality
I think the wet but drying track really made it very hard to evaluate though. The problem was no overtaking moves other than blasting past in a straight line were feasible because everything offline was too wet and therefore low grip, which made DRS necessary because it gave a chance for a (boring) pass on the straight. Had the track been dry offline we MAY have seen some passing attempts.
I fully agree with you
You're forgetting that the Sprint is also giving points (maybe not enough), of which the small teams might benefit from by going for Sprint-specific routes (like Haas tried with the medium tyre), and also increases the risk of collisions and DNF who could send a front row car to the back of the grid for the Sunday. Just imagine if Sainz was beached during the Sprint, not in the race. It was the smallest of errors from Ricc but had huge consequences. Or if Max collided with Leclerc during that last lap overtake for P1 during the sprint. Knowing Max, we all know he won't have a risk/benefit chart in his mind when he sees a gap in front of him. I think the Sprint will add to the strategic part of the weekend more than the actual wheel to wheel action once the format it's settled and absorbed by the teams, but it's a good thing for me, tho it would needs several tweaks going into the direction of making 2 shorter full consecutive races instead a of sprint and a full race, splitting the point haul and total laps, this would create more action in the long run
I am one who doesn't like the need for DRS. I appreciate that it has been and is needed, along with the challenge with high-downforce cars following eachother and not causing too much wake AND still providing a slipstream down the straights to enable overtakes to be attempted, but it's a touch too contrived and trying to find the right balance between "not long enough" and "too easy" is apparently very hard, but .. I long for a time when it's not required.
Thank you for pointing out my biggest issue with the sprint, the "unshuffling" of the Quali. I was screaming about it in Brazil and I was rather annoyed last weekend too
I may have an idea to resolve some of the problems.
The sprint order is determined by the friday quali, the top 10 is reversed. The sprint is still 30 min and less points are given.
The race is 1h30, so more points and the grid is again determined by the friday quali, no reverse grid.
Like that, there will be a lot of overtakes in sprint but a messy quali will still have an impact for the GP.